She didn't fight until the end because she didn't the the ruins to get destroyed.
Chapter 457 "MEAT~~~!!!" Discussion
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hi there where ever u are
its 457 chapters man i `ll never blive that i have thim all not that but i shar it evry week with my student oda sansai never ever made me or any one read the manga reallly despointed {ihope ispelt it right }
word & bt {battel franky } thanx 4 all u work u gave me hope so keep ur heed up if it not 4 u keep it high 4 me { big love frooooom somalia} -
Skimmed through the thread and not seen a significant Robin detail mentioned: Robin appears to have fully dropped her habit of using nicknames/titles for her crewmates.
It's been kinda subtle. She used Luffy's name several times when they met the General Zombies, but then she would, on occaision, refer to Luffy by name so no biggie there. Last week she used Franky's name. But then, he's the new guy, and she's arguably bonded with him more than any other individual crew member save Luffy. But here, this week, she called Usopp and Chopper by their proper names. Not "Long Nose-kun" or "Doctor-san" but "Usopp" and "Chopper."
I know it's nothing major, but it is at the very least noteworthy.
As for the chapter itself. I can see why some people might not like it (though I do think comments like it being a sh***y chapter are a bit much, to be honest). But, hey, they can't all be winners. It was okay, to me. Like it or not, the chapter was necessary. It moved things along. Odz was revealed at long last, our Trio was found out and had to scamper, and now the remaining free crew members are together.
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@salzoiz:
hi there where ever u are
its 457 chapters man i `ll never blive that i have thim all not that but i shar it evry week with my student oda sansai never ever made me or any one read the manga reallly despointed {ihope ispelt it right }
word & bt {battel franky } thanx 4 all u work u gave me hope so keep ur heed up if it not 4 u keep it high 4 me { big love frooooom somalia}Wow, I think my face just exploded after reading this.
Oh, and Sgamer, I noticed too that Robin greeted Usopp and Chopper by name. It is a significant development point for her. She's finally found her true nakama.
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@Fire Fist:
Wow, I think my face just exploded after reading this.
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Same here '_'
Wow.
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I'm astonished. A country which (last I checked) didn't have functional government or territorial integrity (I understand the northern region is/was somewhat autonomous and more functional, but nobody will recognize them as a sovereign entity) is somehow getting Arlong Park.
salzoiz: I bet they'd run a letter from Somalia in the SBS just for the wow factor.
o.O
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@ Ivotas
I guess you're right, his performance against Jabura was pretty lame. But thinking about the Spandam + marines sniping fest scene, this has me wondering: maybe it's not the skill he lacks, but mental strength more than that..it seems he only shows his "badassery" when pushed into a corner. (reminds me of Kawachi from Yakitate…). I guess that's his character, we can't expect nothing else...hoping Chopper can escape the cutesy curse, at least...
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@salzoiz:
hi there where ever u are
its 457 chapters man i `ll never blive that i have thim all not that but i shar it evry week with my student oda sansai never ever made me or any one read the manga reallly despointed {ihope ispelt it right }
word & bt {battel franky } thanx 4 all u work u gave me hope so keep ur heed up if it not 4 u keep it high 4 me { big love frooooom somalia}I know im being offtopic but… what the hell are you trying to say? Are you just difficult in English or something or are you just being a complete loser? Are you saying Oda is your student? What is wrong with you?:getlost:
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@Skull:
Seriously Ivotas I just think you got turned off of Usopps character because of Enies Lobby. His lack of action in one scene doesn't prove he can't hit moving targets and hes spent hundreds of chapters without sniping ever being his main character trait. It was hinted that it would become a big thing for him, sure. But hes proven he doesn't have to rely on sniping to fight.
Err, I think you´re mistaken me somebody else. I am not turned off of Usopp because of Enies Lobby (never said anything like that) I´m just pointing out that there´s one aspect of sniping in which he sucks and that´s a matter of fact and can be proven with everything that we´ve seen so far. I´ll explain it in two steps…
Step 1: Moving targets
As I said before, not all moving targets are of equal kind. Target A is completely different then Target B (in case you don´t know what this is, this is the machine that throws plates in the air). While Target A stands still, you can by desire push a button and move it further away from you which then would be a moving target. But the thing is, the movement is not a problem here. It comes either closer to you or further away from you but no matter how much it moves once you logged on into it you won´t miss no matter the movement.
For Target B on the other hand you have to constantly log on while following the movements. If you´ve logged on to it in one second it doesn´t mean that you´ll still have it in the next one (and people that make unpredictalbe movements are even harder to log on to then this one).
This is what I´m talking about. If Usopp sniped Spandam, then he is most definitely Target A material because he his movement was straight ahead. I don´t say that Usopp sucks totally as a sniper. He has a good eye and precious in quite a distance, no doubts there. But he can´t hit quick moving targets which brings us to…
Step 2: Usopps Hits and Misses
(note when I use Target B below I actually mean Target B-like since as said above targets with unpredictable movements are harder to log on to then a normal Target B. I´m just using it because throwing in Target C would be confusing)
Hits- Jango; Obvioulsy Target A since he wasn´t even trying to dodge
- Chew; Might have moved a bit but didn´t dodge and therefore Target A
- Mr. 4; also Target A for the same reasons as Jango
- Luffy; Egg Star, Tabasco Star and Explosive Cactus Star were all hits because Luffy didn´t dodge thus making him Target A here
- Spandam; Explained it before why he is Target A
Misses
- Luffy; the second Luffy dodged he became Target B and Usopp couldn´t hit him with Shuriken Star
- Jabra; doesn´t even need an explenation why it´s Target B like
- 200 C & C; Same here. They dodged, Usopp missed Target B like
- Absalom; this one was even standing still when Usopp was shooting at him and he still missed. Also Target B like
I´m not making stuff up here this is just how it is in the manga. Usopp doesn´t hit if the targets move quick. He hits cannon fodder of which none is in the league to claim that he has extraordinary reflexes. Perhaps I´m missing something. If Usopp has shown to log on to guys with quick reflexes and actually hit them then I´d like to see them. If there isn´t any then my argument stands and anything thats said against is just display of opinion but nothing that has any solid base in the actual story.
I don't know what the heck Oda is doing with him but if he ever ends up getting the spotlight in a significant way again that changes his character I bet you'll be back. Until then I just wait anxiously for something to happen with him, like I always do. :pouty:
As I said before, this has nothing to do with Usopps character and I mean nothing.
He simply isn´t a complete sniper if she shows such a huge deficit on the one field. If he wants to be a serious threat as a sniper he needs to make his opponents search for cover when they fight him. And so far that´s not the case. -
Guys, I think the big three of the Sh are gonna get woken up, Zoro vs. Jigorouh, Luffy vs. Oz, Sanji vs. Absalom. Then Ussop can just fight the 4 armed gunslinger. Although, I think Moria should be crushed by Oz, because in my opinion, the SH do not need another boost in bounties so quickly.
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Err, I think you´re mistaken me somebody else. I am not turned off of Usopp because of Enies Lobby (never said anything like that) I´m just pointing out that there´s one aspect of sniping in which he sucks and that´s a matter of fact and can be proven with everything that we´ve seen so far. I´ll explain it in two steps…
Step 1: Moving targets
As I said before, not all moving targets are of equal kind. Target A is completely different then Target B (in case you don´t know what this is, this is the machine that throws plates in the air). While Target A stands still, you can by desire push a button and move it further away from you which then would be a moving target. But the thing is, the movement is not a problem here. It comes either closer to you or further away from you but no matter how much it moves once you logged on into it you won´t miss no matter the movement.
For Target B on the other hand you have to constantly log on while following the movements. If you´ve logged on to it in one second it doesn´t mean that you´ll still have it in the next one (and people that make unpredictalbe movements are even harder to log on to then this one).
This is what I´m talking about. If Usopp sniped Spandam, then he is most definitely Target A material because he his movement was straight ahead. I don´t say that Usopp sucks totally as a sniper. He has a good eye and precious in quite a distance, no doubts there. But he can´t hit quick moving targets which brings us to…
Step 2: Usopps Hits and Misses
(note when I use Target B below I actually mean Target B-like since as said above targets with unpredictable movements are harder to log on to then a normal Target B. I´m just using it because throwing in Target C would be confusing)Hits
- Jango; Obvioulsy Target A since he wasn´t even trying to dodge
- Chew; Might have moved a bit but didn´t dodge and therefore Target A
- Mr. 4; also Target A for the same reasons as Jango
- Luffy; Egg Star, Tabasco Star and Explosive Cactus Star were all hits because Luffy didn´t dodge thus making him Target A here
- Spandam; Explained it before why he is Target A
Misses
- Luffy; the second Luffy dodged he became Target B and Usopp couldn´t hit him with Shuriken Star
- Jabra; doesn´t even need an explenation why it´s Target B like
- 200 C & C; Same here. They dodged, Usopp missed Target B like
- Absalom; this one was even standing still when Usopp was shooting at him and he still missed. Also Target B like
I´m not making stuff up here this is just how it is in the manga. Usopp doesn´t hit if the targets move quick. He hits cannon fodder of which none is in the league to claim that he has extraordinary reflexes. Perhaps I´m missing something. If Usopp has shown to log on to guys with quick reflexes and actually hit them then I´d like to see them. If there isn´t any then my argument stands and anything thats said against is just display of opinion but nothing that has any solid base in the actual story.
As I said before, this has nothing to do with Usopps character and I mean nothing. I´m commenting simply on his skills as a sniper which as a matter of fact are only extraordinary on one field but are totally unexistant on the other. I repeat what I said before, think of any story (be it book or movie) where a character is using fire weapons. And then compare if Usopp is that much of a threat like those guys.
You forgot a miss: Mohji and Ritchie, but not because they were moving, simply because it was raining and his ammo slipped.
Absalom would be a perfect opponent for Usopp, because his ability to render himself invisible means that Usopp cannot rely on his eyes to attack him. A sniper should have his other senses trained, and this is the perfect opportunity to do so.
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Guys, I think the big three of the Sh are gonna get woken up, Zoro vs. Jigorouh, Luffy vs. Oz, Sanji vs. Absalom. Then Ussop can just fight the 4 armed gunslinger. Although, I think Moria should be crushed by Oz, because in my opinion, the SH do not need another boost in bounties so quickly.
You do understand that it doesnt matter if Oz nor Luffy will beat Moria, they will get a boost in their bounties anyways because Moria got defeated after interracting the SH, right? but that is of course assuming the Marines will find out right afterwards.
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Whoa.
I think it's really unfair to bash Usopp, Chopper and Nami. You guys have to understand that they aren't monstrously strong like Luffy, Zoro, Sanji etc. Their strength (except maybe Chopper, who's anyway still like 5 years old) is somewhat around ours, which is normal.
Imagine yourself on a zombie island. Imagine you barely managed to run away from ZOMBIES (remember, these are real zombies. imagine yourself in a Resident Evil situation). Now Imagine yourself looking at one of the most evil-looking, devilish, montrously disgusting creature you've ever chanced your eye upon (seriously dampened in effect due to it being a cartoon than a real life picture). The uber strong friends who had always been around weren't there, and all you thought of in that moment of time was witnessing the awakening of such a creature.
I'd scream too.
It's easy to argue, sitting in the comforts of your chairs at home, looking at kiddish-looking images on computer screens, what a most rational decision would be to make at several instances. It's easy to say "Usopp should have gunned the zombies much more easily" or "Chopper should use his Heavy point to fight" or "Nami should have used her Clima Tact" or "they shouldn't have stuck out of the zombie". I mean, tell me, how many of you have actually been able to make fully rational decisions in moments of pure fear? It may cost you your life, but at the moment, would you have been able to control your own instinct, or even consider the damages done to yourself?
I don't know; if you still think that usopp or nami or chopper should have acted more powerfully, then i guess our opinions just differ. i guess you must be some uber strong martial artist who's never feared anything in your life.
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@Fire Fist:
You forgot a miss: Mohji and Ritchie, but not because they were moving, simply because it was raining and his ammo slipped.
Yeah, thats pretty much the reason I didn´t mention it.
Absalom would be a perfect opponent for Usopp, because his ability to render himself invisible means that Usopp cannot rely on his eyes to attack him. A sniper should have his other senses trained, and this is the perfect opportunity to do so.
Didn´t thought of that. I agree, would make a good opponent for him. Training other sense would aid him here and he still wouldn´t be a Zoro/Sanji clone. Lets hope we see that happen. It would pretty much be the first real growth in his sniping skills.
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If Usopp, Nami and Chopper had stopped running just like that and started kicking zombie-ass this would've been just another average, half-assed shonen manga. Team useless is there for us to identify with. As already stated, everyone on this forum would run away and cry like a schoolgirl if confronted with an army of zombies. Is that so weird? We're regular humans without superpowers and so are they (more or less.) Atleast compared to the real powerhouses in the One Piece world.
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That may be so, but I believe we've done enough identifying with the other five times they've run away.
Seriously, they're in a mansion full of zombies and they don't even have their weapons ready?
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I'm a lil depressed on the fact that Oda once again choosed to make it so instead of putting up a fight, both Usopp and Chopper stand their and let the Zombies capture them. Usopp is understandable with his weapon; not very good for close distance fights; but Chopper is all about melee'ing and could go Heavy Point anytime to knock the Zombies off.
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@Book:
If Usopp, Nami and Chopper had stopped running just like that and started kicking zombie-ass this would've been just another average, half-assed shonen manga. Team useless is there for us to identify with. As already stated, everyone on this forum would run away and cry like a schoolgirl if confronted with an army of zombies. Is that so weird? We're regular humans without superpowers and so are they (more or less.) Atleast compared to the real powerhouses in the One Piece world.
That's the same old crap about lame characters being "everymen" or the author showing his vulnerable side through them or whatever. Point is, I doubt anyone in this forum would run and cry once confronted with an army of zombies if:
-they already went through many life threatening situations, horrible dangers and fights against supernaturally strong opponents and survived it.
-they had the ability to almost brush off getting hit by 4 tons iron clubs and have 10 huge potentially lethal wounds magically disappear after three days.
-they had unhuman accuracy, control over the weather, or the ability to take seven different shapes.
Usopp, Nami and Chopper aren't normal humans. They're freaks of nature and there's literally no reason for any average manga reader to identify with a fucking plush like anthropomorphic doctor reindeer or a Pinocchio lookalike genius sniper who has magical seashells at his disposal just because they crap their pants on a regular basis.
How hard is it to admit that maybe, Oda screwed up with these three characters?
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Their strength (except maybe Chopper, who's anyway still like 5 years old) is somewhat around ours, which is normal.
Err, Chopper's 15, not 5.
You do understand that it doesnt matter if Oz nor Luffy will beat Moria, they will get a boost in their bounties anyways because Moria got defeated after interracting the SH, right? but that is of course assuming the Marines will find out right afterwards.
I don't think the Marines or the Government will be finding out about Luffy beating Moria right away since it's so hard to navigate throught the Florian Triangle. Remember, it took 5 years for Brook to find Thriller Bark again. I'm guessing the Marines will be kept in the dark about Moria's defeat for a while.
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That's the same old crap about lame characters being "everymen" or the author showing his vulnerable side through them or whatever. Point is, I doubt anyone in this forum would run and cry once confronted with an army of zombies if:
-they already went through many life threatening situations, horrible dangers and fights against supernaturally strong opponents and survived it.
-they had the ability to almost brush off getting hit by 4 tons iron clubs and have 10 huge potentially lethal wounds magically disappear after three days.
-they had unhuman accuracy, control over the weather, or the ability to take seven different shapes.
Usopp, Nami and Chopper aren't normal humans. They're freaks of nature and there's literally no reason for any average manga reader to identify with a fucking plush like anthropomorphic doctor reindeer or a Pinocchio lookalike genius sniper who has magical seashells at his disposal just because they crap their pants on a regular basis.
How hard is it to admit that maybe, Oda screwed up with these three characters?
Except the One Piece world isn't our world. Getting it by a 4-ton bat there is not nearly as impressive as getting his by a 4-ton bat there.
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As much as I'd love to see Usopp have a serious battle Oda has made it pretty clear he isn't a fighter. He hasn't skrewed up any of the characters. He could've given Usopp a CP9 member to duel but chose not to. Just because they've been through dangerous situations before doesn't make this one less threatning. Usopp and Nami fight with weapons and intelligence, they don't have the physical strength of Luffy, Zoro and Sanji. Franky also uses weapons but he is an experienced fighter who can also duke it out with his fists.
Usopp and Nami have been pretty lucky in their battles. Nami usually ends up with an opponent who underestimates her and plays around long enough for Nami to counter. Usopp can take a beating but not dish it out. Chopper however is a potencial fighter but his low self-esteem gets in the way.
Honestly how long have they been sailing? A year at most. I don't think that you become Rambo over that short amount of time no matter how many ordeals you are put through. Take Usopp for example… Yes, he survived a maniac blasting him with lightningbolts. But what could he do about it? Nothing, he's weak so escape was the only option. That doesn't make a horde of zombies less threatning because you've never had the chance to overcome previous threats! Luffy actually defeats stronger opponents all the time, this builds not only physical strength but also self-esteem and belief in yourself.
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Except the One Piece world isn't our world. Getting it by a 4-ton bat there is not nearly as impressive as getting his by a 4-ton bat there.
That's basically what I'm saying. Facing zombies in their world with their abilities is not as scary as facing zombies in our world. Which is why this talk of "they're here so we can identify!!!" is wack.
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And after rereading this message it appears extremely corny. "Facing zombies in our world" riiiight.
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@Book:
As much as I'd love to see Usopp have a serious battle Oda has made it pretty clear he isn't a fighter. He hasn't skrewed up any of the characters. He could've given Usopp a CP9 member to duel but chose not to. Just because they've been through dangerous situations before doesn't make this one less threatning. Usopp and Nami fight with weapons and intelligence, they don't have the physical strength of Luffy, Zoro and Sanji. Franky also uses weapons but he is an experienced fighter who can also duke it out with his fists.
What Oda has been showing IMO is that Usopp is becoming a fighter. His dream is to become a brave warrior of the sea.
Usopp and Nami have been pretty lucky in their battles. Nami usually ends up with an opponent who underestimates her and plays around long enough for Nami to counter. Usopp can take a beating but not dish it out. Chopper however is a potencial fighter but his low self-esteem gets in the way.
Nami's really the only one who gets overly lucky. Usopp is just durable.
Honestly how long have they been sailing? A year at most. I don't think that you become Rambo over that short amount of time no matter how many ordeals you are put through. Take Usopp for example… Yes, he survived a maniac blasting him with lightningbolts. But what could he do about it? Nothing, he's weak so escape was the only option. That doesn't make a horde of zombies less threatning because you've never had the chance to overcome previous threats! Luffy actually defeats stronger opponents all the time, this builds not only physical strength but also self-esteem and belief in yourself.
They've been sailing for like 2 months. @Aldrich:
That's basically what I'm saying. Facing zombies in their world with their abilities is not as scary as facing zombies in our world. Which is why this talk of "they're here so we can identify!!!" is wack.
In the OP world the gap between strengh is huge. Sure Usopp could survive a 4-ton bat, but there are things much more dangerous. And for the weaker zombies, they are inda like cockroaches. A lot of people are scared of them, despite the fact that they could simply step on them. But I agree that anyone saying they can identify with Soge is bullshiting.
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Err, Chopper's 15, not 5.
I don't think the Marines or the Government will be finding out about Luffy beating Moria right away since it's so hard to navigate throught the Florian Triangle. Remember, it took 5 years for Brook to find Thriller Bark again. I'm guessing the Marines will be kept in the dark about Moria's defeat for a while.
This is why I mentioned at the end that of course there is a possibility that the Marines won't find out. At list not right away.
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In the OP world the gap between strengh is huge. Sure Usopp could survive a 4-ton bat, but there are things much more dangerous. And for the weaker zombies, they are inda like cockroaches. A lot of people are scared of them, despite the fact that they could simply step on them.
Even if the OP world isn´t our world a 4-ton bat is a hell of a lethal weapon or otherwise it means shit in the story.
About the "everyday people" argument (this isn´t really directed specifically at you) - As it was already said, it doesn´t work that way. Nami, Usopp and Chopper are no monsters like the other guys but they are most definitely not everyday people.
They may not punch as strong as Luffy, slice as good as Zoro or kick as strong as Sanji but that´s not the point. As some of you said, they are not clones of these guys. But you can be strong without being considered a clone.
Luffy is an inhuman brawler, Zoro an inhuman swordsman and Sanji an inhuman…kicker. So Usopp should be an inhuman shooter but he is it only to a certain degree. It doesn´t matter if his body is far weaker then Luffy & Co´s that´s not his field of activity. But on his field he should be a smurfing threat and he´s not. That´s the letdown about his fighting style.
Chopper is even more disappointing. While for Usopp you could use the excuse that he has a weak body (in terms of attacks) that does at no point apply to Chopper. He´s a friggin´ "mutant" and has some truly powerful forms for close combat (one of them even doesn´t recuire a Rumble Ball) so he should be able to deal with Soldier Zombies.
Nami I think does the best she can with what her skill. She has a powerful weapon but like everbody who isn´t a trained fighter you can´t put up much of a fight without that.
That said, it should be clear that those guys are anything but average. Nami and Usopp might not be monsters as the other guys, but they actually have more then enough skill and experience to deal with minor opponents and unfortunally they fail here.
Chopper on the other hand has actually no reason to not be even among the monsters with his ability. Being naive shouldn´t be any hinderance here. Even if he would be weaker then all the other five, ability wise he belongs to the monsters and not to the fraidy cats who let themselves get raped by Soldier Zombies. -
Even if the OP world isn´t our world a 4-ton bat is a hell of a lethal weapon or otherwise it means shit in the story.
Sure a 4-ton bat may be a lethal weapon but so is a gun. There are people in the OP world whose punches have much more than 4 tons force behind them. Also, while Usopp may have had survived the bat, he basically broke every bone in his body. Sure he could survive it, but it'd hurt helluva much. Only cause you'd survive something of that caliber doesn't mean you aren't afraid of it. There's also the cockroach factor. And like I said before te gap in the OP is so huge, a 4 ton bat is nothing compared to a punch from some people.
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Luffy is an inhuman brawler, Zoro an inhuman swordsman and Sanji an inhuman…kicker. So Usopp should be an inhuman shooter but he is it only to a certain degree. It doesn´t matter if his body is far weaker then Luffy & Co´s that´s not his field of activity. But on his field he should be a smurfing threat and he´s not. That´s the letdown about his fighting style.
Exactly. People using the "everyman" argument only base it on physical strength and fail to see the three stooges are completely abnormal in other fields, and don't take advantage of it at all.
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Usopp's is his durability and sharpshooting. Nami is a fucking genius when you think about it. Chopper is a reindeer and has superb medical abilities.
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I know I'm a little bit late but…
Ivotas..
There is one problem with your comparison to Target type A and Target type B. The problem lies with what you pick for Target type B...A clay pigeon.
Clay Pigeons do not move in an unpredictable manner. They fly in a straight line at a constant speed. Unless you have a prankster who puts holes in them to make them fly unpredictable, you can follow their movement pretty easily.
And I think you keep meaning to say LOCK on instead of LOG on. -
That's the same old crap about lame characters being "everymen" or the author showing his vulnerable side through them or whatever. Point is, I doubt anyone in this forum would run and cry once confronted with an army of zombies if:
-they already went through many life threatening situations, horrible dangers and fights against supernaturally strong opponents and survived it.
-they had the ability to almost brush off getting hit by 4 tons iron clubs and have 10 huge potentially lethal wounds magically disappear after three days.
-they had unhuman accuracy, control over the weather, or the ability to take seven different shapes.
Usopp, Nami and Chopper aren't normal humans. They're freaks of nature and there's literally no reason for any average manga reader to identify with a fucking plush like anthropomorphic doctor reindeer or a Pinocchio lookalike genius sniper who has magical seashells at his disposal just because they crap their pants on a regular basis.
How hard is it to admit that maybe, Oda screwed up with these three characters?
And how hard is it for you to realize that capability and willingness are two seperate things?
Example: just because say some of us have the capability to come out alive in a death match against a trained German shepherd dog doesnt mean we constantly have the willingness to do so and won't run away when suddenly jumped by one.
Yes, the three have gone thru many tough experience and technically should have the ability to kick some ass now, but that doesnt mean they would actively seek battle from this point on.
The monster trio are the ones who wont hestitate rushing into fights even if the enemies are technically stronger than them. The weak trio, on the other hand, is not nearly as combat-thirsty and prefer running away even they are probably the stronger ones in the match.
That is their mentality/personality/character. Plus, think about it, put aside all the humor factor, they are facing hordes of rotten undead creatures who are nigh invulnerable to all their attacks, as weird as their previous experiences on the grand line are, I think it's fair for them to be awe struct a bit isn't it?
They will, however, overcome that fear when and only when the critical moment comes: when their dreams or friends were deadly threatened. It has happened many times before and will be happening again in future. Expecting otherwise, aka Uso/Chopper go actively ass-kicking just cuz they can, is not reasonable.
Again, my whole point in short: They can doesnt mean they want to, and the weak trio are people who don't want to, that's just part of their characters. (and the monster trio are the ones who want to even if they can't, that's their mentality)
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They will, however, overcome that fear when and only when the critical moment comes: when their dreams or friends were deadly threatened. It has happened many times before and will be happening again in future.
That's what I dislike about Oda's style at times. It'll be the same ol' running away but then fighting under pressure with the trio. Very predictable and getting boring. You'd think half way into the manga that there'd be a little change in plot. I mean, how many times has Luffy been stuck or captured? Then he comes back all heroicly and saves the day. Zoro hasn't changed a bit either. He seems to be there just to say one odd thing and then have a fight.
I fail to see much improvement since the Jaya arc. This arc being the worst so far, in my opinion.
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hmm
wonder if wat i said earlier gonna be true with the ginyu-goku theory thing cept with luffys shadow n him. -
i agree wit sabz.
i rly think this arc is the worst so far makes no sense.also honestly wether ppl agree with me on this i truly hope that with the anime they catch up to the ace vs bb part and then take like 6-12 months off of one piece.
as much as i loved enies lobby arc etc. i rly hated those 10+minutes recaps etc.
the last thing i wanna c is them fukin up the anime with fillers "specials" and those bullsht recaps they did.
if they do 6-12months off one piece id probably kill my self tho fyi.
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@$abZ:
That's what I dislike about Oda's style at times. It'll be the same ol' running away but then fighting under pressure with the trio.
That's just like saying "Luffy wanting meat is getting boring and repetitive"
It's part of their character design, and not something subject to some fans' so called "development"
You will just have to deal with it.
Plus, if you hate those patterns so much, then how can you say this is the worst arc, where the monster trio are taken out of the picture for the moment and it seemingly is up to the lesser crews to save the day this time?
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Again, my whole point in short: They can doesnt mean they want to, and the weak trio are people who don't want to, that's just part of their characters. (and the monster trio are the ones who want to even if they can't, that's their mentality)
Problem with the weak trio is they don't want and when they want (when they don't have any other choice) they can't. See Usopp pathetically bragging about manly honor three seconds before getting ganged up by cannon fodder and crying. It's a bit tiresome.
You will just have to deal with it.
Or we could also find it lame.
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Sure a 4-ton bat may be a lethal weapon but so is a gun. There are people in the OP world whose punches have much more than 4 tons force behind them. Also, while Usopp may have had survived the bat, he basically broke every bone in his body. Sure he could survive it, but it'd hurt helluva much. Only cause you'd survive something of that caliber doesn't mean you aren't afraid of it. There's also the cockroach factor. And like I said before te gap in the OP is so huge, a 4 ton bat is nothing compared to a punch from some people.
It doesn´t matter whether if it is a 4-ton bat, a gun, superhuman punches or whatsoever ALL of the Strawhats have taken damages that could have caused much more damage to other people outside of the OP world. Usopp may have got lots of bones broken with that hit, but it didn´t stop him from first taking his opponents out before getting medical help. And his wounds healed quite quickly while others cough Spandam cough havent recoverd from lesser strong hits in years.
The point is every one of the Strawhats is a hero. And by that I don´t mean hero like main hero = protagonist but per definition a real hero who gives a part of him/herself for a cause that is greater then he/herself. Whenever they fight for friends they show that.
Think back of Nami vs. Doublefinger. Remember Nami´s speech when she said that the pain of her wound is nothing compared to the pain Vivi must feel because of what´s happening in Arabasta. That clearly shows what motivations got Nami to go over her limits and endure a fight with somebody who is stronger then her. That´s what makes a hero. You don´t need to be a boring Superman clone to be a hero. What you are willing to do for a greater cause is what makes a hero. And all of the Strawhats are heroes by that definition not just the monsters. Usopp and Chopper should finally realize that and use their potential. It´s not like they don´t have any.
I know I'm a little bit late but…
Ivotas..
There is one problem with your comparison to Target type A and Target type B. The problem lies with what you pick for Target type B...A clay pigeon.
Clay Pigeons do not move in an unpredictable manner. They fly in a straight line at a constant speed. Unless you have a prankster who puts holes in them to make them fly unpredictable, you can follow their movement pretty easily.Yeah, I actually explained it that real living targets are harder to get hit then a clay pigeon. I just wanted to prove the point that there is a difference in moving objects as targets. A moving target that has a will of its own is even harder to hit. It´s not a 100% perfect analogy but it surely helps to prove the point about Usopp.
And I think you keep meaning to say LOCK on instead of LOG on.
Oh yeah, that´s it. Don´t think much at times and somehow it became an automatic mechanism to type it with a "g" because of the term Log Pose. Thanks for setting me straight.^^
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First off, this chapter was AWESOME. Oz lives, Usopp showed off some new moves….all good things. I want to see an Usopp-Absolom fight ^_^
I mean he's got to give Kabuto a full test drive somehow, right? o.0
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My feelings about Usopp are that he is, potentially, as tough as Sanji, Zoro, or Luffy. Perhaps not in the same way (as Ivotas said, inhuman shooter more than anything) but you'd have to be superhuman on some level to take the amount of sheer punishment Usopp has taken to date (Water Seven + Enies Lobby probably = more than all other arcs combined). However, I think there's a significant factor getting in Usopp's way. His peaceful upbringing. If he'd undergone the same kind of training as the Big Three, he'd probably be monstrous himself (be it in sniping or any other skill). But he lived life quietly on a peaceful island.
Unlike the other three, who were more or less fully trained by the time they left to pursue their dreams, Usopp's had to pick it all up as he's gone. The Big Three may well have had the same feelings of fear and fright as Usopp when they trained under their respective teachers. But they've worked hard to overcome it and be what they are now. A process that arguably took years. Usopp is now in the process of doing the same. Arlong Park, Little Garden, Alabasta, and most recently Enies Lobby have been Usopp's training grounds and turning points. Even arcs where he got no real action had something (trying to carry the determined Dalton in Drum, going back aboard the Maxim for Sanji in Skypeia).
When will Usopp have a true Big Fight in the Grand Line? Dunno. Thriller Bark's offering a good opportunity fresh from Usopp's development at Enies Lobby. But then maybe not. Maybe he'll be support this time around. However Usopp is, slowly but surely, building up to the point where he can handle a fight against a GL level enemy. He's improved his arsenal considerably, with Dials and Kabuto. He's learning more and more to muster his courage for his principles. Now, perhaps all that's left is that he just has to refine his skills to match.
But then this is all just my opinion. I could be wrong.
While I'm a bit frustrated at Usopp's lack of heroics, I'm willing to wait and see the big payoff if/when it finally comes.
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It doesn´t matter whether if it is a 4-ton bat, a gun, superhuman punches or whatsoever ALL of the Strawhats have taken damages that could have caused much more damage to other people outside of the OP world. Usopp may have got lots of bones broken with that hit, but it didn´t stop him from first taking his opponents out before getting medical help. And his wounds healed quite quickly while others cough Spandam cough havent recoverd from lesser strong hits in years.
The point is every one of the Strawhats is a hero. And by that I don´t mean hero like main hero = protagonist but per definition a real hero who gives a part of him/herself for a cause that is greater then he/herself. Whenever they fight for friends they show that.
Think back of Nami vs. Doublefinger. Remember Nami´s speech when she said that the pain of her wound is nothing compared to the pain Vivi must feel because of what´s happening in Arabasta. That clearly shows what motivations got Nami to go over her limits and endure a fight with somebody who is stronger then her. That´s what makes a hero. You don´t need to be a boring Superman clone to be a hero. What you are willing to do for a greater cause is what makes a hero. And all of the Strawhats are heroes by that definition not just the monsters. Usopp and Chopper should finally realize that and use their potential. It´s not like they don´t have any.
It does matter because in the OP world there are things a lot scarier and damaging that getting hit by a 4 ton bat. Saying Usopp shouldn't fear zombies in a world where people can make clouds 8 miles above them move with a single attack doesn't make much sense. It's like saying you shouldn't be scared of a tank because you survived a shot from a pistol.
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It doesn´t matter whether if it is a 4-ton bat, a gun, superhuman punches or whatsoever ALL of the Strawhats have taken damages that could have caused much more damage to other people outside of the OP world. Usopp may have got lots of bones broken with that hit, but it didn´t stop him from first taking his opponents out before getting medical help. And his wounds healed quite quickly while others cough Spandam cough havent recoverd from lesser strong hits in years.
The point is every one of the Strawhats is a hero. And by that I don´t mean hero like main hero = protagonist but per definition a real hero who gives a part of him/herself for a cause that is greater then he/herself. Whenever they fight for friends they show that.
Think back of Nami vs. Doublefinger. Remember Nami´s speech when she said that the pain of her wound is nothing compared to the pain Vivi must feel because of what´s happening in Arabasta. That clearly shows what motivations got Nami to go over her limits and endure a fight with somebody who is stronger then her. That´s what makes a hero. You don´t need to be a boring Superman clone to be a hero. What you are willing to do for a greater cause is what makes a hero. And all of the Strawhats are heroes by that definition not just the monsters. Usopp and Chopper should finally realize that and use their potential. It´s not like they don´t have any.
Yeah, I actually explained it that real living targets are harder to get hit then a clay pigeon. I just wanted to prove the point that there is a difference in moving objects as targets. A moving target that has a will of its own is even harder to hit. It´s not a 100% perfect analogy but it surely helps to prove the point about Usopp.
Oh yeah, that´s it. Don´t think much at times and somehow it became an automatic mechanism to type it with a "g" because of the term Log Pose. Thanks for setting me straight.^^
I quote especially that reply but i am reffering to all of your statements in general. I find the discussion pretty lame and senseless. I don´t write that to offend you or to mention that your thoughts are meaningless or stupid. No it is the other way round. I think that some of your replies are quite remarkable and well-thought. But it is senseless to talk about "Yes i like that and that development and he lacks character development" and stuff like this. The story has not come to an end. You don´t disturb Dali when he is halfway through a picture and say: "Oh well this is Bullshit, i would like it that way." Of course it is okay to discuss, we are all here because of that. But Oda knows more than we know. So certain events will make sense when the story is complete. So just wait and do not start to critisize every chapter or development that seems unlogical or simply bad to you.
Oh, and yes Aldrich: Cut it off. Cut it off seriously. And learn some manners. That would be a gift to the dicussion-atmosphere here in my opinion. You are way to offensive with YOUR opinion. You don´t speak for the world, you speak only for yourself. And your opinion is not better than of anybody else. So don´t be to busy to write an imo. -
This is a long shot, but it would bring Usopp quite a few fans. I read on Wikipedia that Gol D. Roger fought a legendary gunsman called Silver-Silver, it would so awesome if the 4 armed gunslinger was Silver-Silver. Its very unlikely, but it would be an awesome fight and Usopp would definitely have a lot of character develop, and gain truckloads of fans.
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Oh, and yes Aldrich: Cut it off. Cut it off seriously. And learn some manners. That would be a gift to the dicussion-atmosphere here in my opinion. You are way to offensive with YOUR opinion. You don´t speak for the world, you speak only for yourself. And your opinion is not better than of anybody else. So don´t be to busy to write an imo.
Cut what off? Not my fault you take my posts as a personal offence, and no sorry I'm not going to waste time typing IMO I THINK THAT ITS ONLY MY OPINION as I thought we came to the conclusion that it was useless. If you want to refute my points though instead of backseat modding then by all means do it.
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^ never trust wikipedia…
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Oh, and yes Aldrich: Cut it off. Cut it off seriously. And learn some manners. That would be a gift to the dicussion-atmosphere here in my opinion. You are way to offensive with YOUR opinion. You don´t speak for the world, you speak only for yourself. And your opinion is not better than of anybody else. So don´t be to busy to write an imo.
Cut what off? Not my fault you take my posts as a personal offence, and no sorry I'm not going to waste time typing IMO I THINK THAT ITS ONLY MY OPINION as I thought we came to the conclusion that it was useless. If you want to refute my points though instead of backseat modding then by all means do it.
**HaHAHAHAHAHAHA
oh wow.**
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This is a long shot, but it would bring Usopp quite a few fans. I read on Wikipedia that Gol D. Roger fought a legendary gunsman called Silver-Silver, it would so awesome if the 4 armed gunslinger was Silver-Silver. Its very unlikely, but it would be an awesome fight and Usopp would definitely have a lot of character develop, and gain truckloads of fans.
The only problem is that I could put on Wikipedia that Usopp was the one to defeat every member of CP9. Until someone corrected it, some people would believe it. I do not recall in any of the legends of Gol D. Roger spoken throughout the canon where he fought a gunslinger. The two things I remember is that he fought Whitebeard to a draw, and that he could read the Ponyglyphs.
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… it is senseless to talk about "Yes i like that and that development and he lacks character development" and stuff like this. The story has not come to an end. You don´t disturb Dali when he is halfway through a picture and say: "Oh well this is Bullshit, i would like it that way." Of course it is okay to discuss, we are all here because of that. But Oda knows more than we know. So certain events will make sense when the story is complete. So just wait and do not start to critisize every chapter or development that seems unlogical or simply bad to you.
....So please do yourself a favour and quit this useless board until this unmeasureable masterpiece has come to an end - within your logic there´s really no use in talking about it now.
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So please do yourself a favour and quit this useless board until this unmeasureable masterpiece has come to an end - within your logic there´s really no use in talking about it now.
Haha, funny. Kind of stupid but still funny. No seriously as i mentioned before it is quite understandable to discuss. We are all here to do that. But every chapter, every single unimportant development? Not really imo. And Aldrich: I don´t get offended by your replies. That is not so easy to offend me. But some manners would suit you well and your answer has shown that again. You simply cannot talk like a normal human being to others in this forum. (Of course i don´t know something about your personality). You don´t need to proof that over and over again. I know that already. I don´t offended you. I just want to make something clear to you. You don´t have to take it personal and write an answer with BIG letters. xD
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My feelings about Usopp are that he is, potentially, as tough as Sanji, Zoro, or Luffy. Perhaps not in the same way (as Ivotas said, inhuman shooter more than anything) but you'd have to be superhuman on some level to take the amount of sheer punishment Usopp has taken to date (Water Seven + Enies Lobby probably = more than all other arcs combined). However, I think there's a significant factor getting in Usopp's way. His peaceful upbringing. If he'd undergone the same kind of training as the Big Three, he'd probably be monstrous himself (be it in sniping or any other skill). But he lived life quietly on a peaceful island.
Unlike the other three, who were more or less fully trained by the time they left to pursue their dreams, Usopp's had to pick it all up as he's gone. The Big Three may well have had the same feelings of fear and fright as Usopp when they trained under their respective teachers. But they've worked hard to overcome it and be what they are now. A process that arguably took years. Usopp is now in the process of doing the same. Arlong Park, Little Garden, Alabasta, and most recently Enies Lobby have been Usopp's training grounds and turning points. Even arcs where he got no real action had something (trying to carry the determined Dalton in Drum, going back aboard the Maxim for Sanji in Skypeia).
When will Usopp have a true Big Fight in the Grand Line? Dunno. Thriller Bark's offering a good opportunity fresh from Usopp's development at Enies Lobby. But then maybe not. Maybe he'll be support this time around. However Usopp is, slowly but surely, building up to the point where he can handle a fight against a GL level enemy. He's improved his arsenal considerably, with Dials and Kabuto. He's learning more and more to muster his courage for his principles. Now, perhaps all that's left is that he just has to refine his skills to match.
But then this is all just my opinion. I could be wrong.
While I'm a bit frustrated at Usopp's lack of heroics, I'm willing to wait and see the big payoff if/when it finally comes.
I don´t have much to add then to say that I wholeheartadly agree with what you say. Usopps laid back life where he played pirate games in a safe spot and unlike Luffy never having had a sick grandpa who trained him with inhuman methods nor having made a promise to become strong at set sail are pretty much the reasons as to why Usopp isn´t in the league as the monsters. It makes pretty much sense and I agree that with what he´s going through now as a pirate he has the chance to make those experiences (respectively he had some already).
I quote especially that reply but i am reffering to all of your statements in general. I find the discussion pretty lame and senseless. I don´t write that to offend you or to mention that your thoughts are meaningless or stupid. No it is the other way round. I think that some of your replies are quite remarkable and well-thought. But it is senseless to talk about "Yes i like that and that development and he lacks character development" and stuff like this. The story has not come to an end. You don´t disturb Dali when he is halfway through a picture and say: "Oh well this is Bullshit, i would like it that way." Of course it is okay to discuss, we are all here because of that. But Oda knows more than we know. So certain events will make sense when the story is complete. So just wait and do not start to critisize every chapter or development that seems unlogical or simply bad to you.
Come again, when did I critisize "every chapter"? I rarely critisized events that took place in the manga for years. For the anime it´s a different story but for the manga I pretty much mostly point out what I like so before you accuse me of something, please check if there´s any base to it first.
That said, a discussion forum is the ideal plattform to share personal views on objects of interest (which would be the One Piece manga here). I mean what are we here for if not sharing our views/feelings/ideas/theories about One Piece? That also includes critisizing. As long as critique is constructive it doesn´t matter whether it is positive or negative and has pretty much a place here. And so far us guys who make negative critiques on the field of Nami, Usopp and Chopper didn´t write any mindless bashfest posts so it´s pretty much getting tiresome to read posts that tell us to stop complaining when we pretty much do exactly what this forum is here for.
I don´t want to be offensive but if it is really too much for you that people do more then backboneless yes-saying then perhaps you should follow bedrocks suggestion and leave this place alone and return when the story has ended in more or less a decade.
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I don´t want to be offensive but if it is really too much for you that people do more then backboneless yes-saying then perhaps you should follow bedrocks suggestion and leave this place alone and return when the story has ended in more or less a decade.
I don´t understand that. I don´t have critizised you personally. Where have you read something about "Year i have no backbone and all what Oda does is godlike". Nowhere. I like your comments and they are well-written. You don´t have to show me the way out of this forum. That is not nessesary. I discuss more about general things. Because an opinion of a chapter can change with the next but not the opinion of the drawing style for example. And read my post again please, if you quote it. I said it is understandable to discuss.
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Dear lord, do I have to write even longer extended text that everything I want to say is clear? Of course you didn´t say anything like that, I just said that it´s tiresome to read critiques about critiques because not all critiques are unjustified.
And on this certain specific topic, I didn´t write a critique out of the blue but decided to put the thoughts I´ve kept to myself for a long time to paper and share them here. The stuff I said about Usopp not being able to hit quick targets is not something that I just made up out of the blue after reading this chapter, but is rather the conclusion of what we´ve seen him do ever since he´s been introduced years ago.
Even without that chapter, my argument would be exactly the same. The only thing that would be different is that it would be lacking one example (which would be Usopp missing Absalom this chapter). I don´t change my opinions like a flag in the wind.