I think Zoro is captured. I dont think he just got lost. The pig was laughing the same way he laughed when Sanji disappeared. MAybe the pig makes people transport quickly to Moria or something?
Chapter 451 "Perona's Wonder-Garden" Discussion
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Anyone else besides me get a weird Alice in wonderland vibe from this chapter? The whole perona's "wonderful" garden, and the variety of mix and matched creatures all over the place. Not to mention some of the previous cameo occurences of chiser(sp?) cat, and the new warthog lady reminds me of the general attitude the queen of hearts had to whatever she wanted. Maybe its just me >.>
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Is it just me, or does that John guy with the two swords in his stomach look like Dr. Kureha.
Anyway, I love how they have a whole army of zombies and other weird stuff. There will be many fighting opurtunities. Most of the zombies look great too. -
No, if they ever meet, it will only be somewhere in the middle of nowhere and they will ask each other their way to the castle…
Haha, that's perfect! I hope something like that does happen.
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I think the personality of someone the Straw Hats have met along the course in the Grandline will come up. Or the personality of someone they will meet in the next arc, who will be connected to the whole saga.
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Nobody answered my question on who that girl was niext to the pic of Lee…
Captainjustin did something like 3 posts before yours. Just read the damn thread.
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Relooking at the new animals and the forrest creatures… It seems these are the ones ghost girl wanted in her control because she likes cute things. The onces in the forest were a lot more uglier then these guys. Those the ones she didn't like?
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Some of the forest ones are pretty adorable.
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Anyone else besides me get a weird Alice in wonderland vibe from this chapter? The whole perona's "wonderful" garden, and the variety of mix and matched creatures all over the place. Not to mention some of the previous cameo occurences of chiser(sp?) cat, and the new warthog lady reminds me of the general attitude the queen of hearts had to whatever she wanted. Maybe its just me >.>
Oh, good call on that! I forgot about Alice completely.
But yeah, it does seem very inspirated by that. Although, that story IS a classic, so it's not a surprise if Oda thought of it on his own to fit the Wonder Garden view. -
Going with the allis in wonder land theorie, if you look at lolas nose its a heart. Making her even more like the queen of hearts.
I also noticed the arm bands where it says the zombies numbers look like the bands with swastikkas( I think thats how you spell it) used by the NAZI party.
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Some of them just have tags and others have it tattooed, though.
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That nunchuck-ram-zombie is by far the best in Perona's weirdo posse.
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One last quick thing : if the Sanji doggy-penguin seems somewhat similar to you, but you just can't quite place where you've seen it, maybe it's because of this:
Actually, the dogfaced penguin reminds me more of the BBQ colorspread. Maybe it was chapter… 410? They were all eating hot dogs.
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Those penguins are effin' sweet.
I guess the dog-penguin's remarks at the end of the chapter lend credence to the theory that stolen shadows are used to animate the zombies. It would explain why Ryuuma sounds so similar to Brooke… unfortunately, this would imply that SANJI'S SHADOW HAS BEEN STOLEN! OH NOEZ!!!1 -
Not to mention that dog-penguin uses "shit" in his dis at the zombies.
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@VL7:
Is it just me, or does that John guy with the two swords in his stomach look like Dr. Kureha.
Ermmmm, that particular similarity has been pointed out at least two times in this chapter discussion, probably a few times in the spoiler thread (I don't know for sure because I didn't read it this week) and at least once in last week's chapter thread.
A good rule to remember is that whenever someone is tempted to begin a sentence with "is it just me or …" they should always have read the entire thread beforehand, to see if it really is just them, or if (as it is the majority of the time) something that a half-dozen people have already pointed out.
I'm not trying to single you out here, it's just that your post was nearest at hand when I needed an example.
Peace.
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If Sanji is that dog-penguin and now Zoro is lost, I can imagine it, Zoro is a cat-bear!
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Zoro would be like a shark-thing.
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Ok, does this mean 370 million bounty was a fake, because I didn't saw it when I went on groups.msn for op
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I think that was just part of a random spoiler posted after a confirmed one was, or something like that. Either way, it was fake.
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Ah, okay, so all we know about it is that it is larger than Luffy's.
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You know, almost everyone thinks Zoro was captured/got his shadow stolen, (Including myself until now,) but then again it's Zoro.
Or Aka Mr. I-get-lost-easily.Maybe he's just lost and kicking some zombie butt.
agree zoro is probably just lost.
i cant see zoro or sanji getting caught by zombies (and it wasnt even zombie generals?) under normal circumstances… only way for sanji to get caught is if he's trapped by a girl.btw. where are the numbers on the penguin trio?? i cant find them even though we got a full 360* view on them =S
@bogia:
Considering moria has window images covering his body, I would argue for a window paramecia fruit that redirects light energy from one place to another to animate Hogback's solar powered zombies. This would explain why they need to keep the people alive after their shadow was stolen so that the zombies can keep being powered by the light hitting their bodies. It doesn't explain the personality transfer, but no one else has explained that satisfactorily either.
solar powered? uhm dont the original bodies without shadows disintigrate in sunlight? i find it unlikely that they are transferring power, there was a whole lot of people hiding in the wods right? doesnt seem like moria/doctor hogback bothers about keeping the originals around and that doesnt seem to smart if the zombies stop functioning when the humans die.
(hmm will luffy and the gang need to somehow get sunlight into thrillar bark to weaken moria?)
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I doubt they'd use light. it would most likely kill brooke and the old man.
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=) true but nami could probably be very precise with the help of her climatacts.
and there should still be alot of shadows all over thrillar bark to hide in for brook and the others.
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What if they reanimated Gol D. Roger's body?!?!?!?!
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stole it from his grave and create a super gol.D.roger zombie the WG would like to see this lol
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Wouldn't the WG put it in some special graveyard, like so sympathysers couldn't get it?
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Oh my god
SANJI IS A ZOMBIE!!!!! AHHHHH!!!
Wow that scene was intense. Can't wait to see what Zoro has become!
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Gol D. Roger's body was likely cremated.
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gol d. roger vs luffy drools
one piece most awesome fight ever
that wont happen… -
Alright, one thing has me stumped. If shadows are stolen in order to reanimate the zombies, what happens to the bodies? Are they all in the forest like that one old man? Does this mean that Sanji is also in the woods? How did Brooke escape without hitting sunlight? (This particular question may have already been answered, I just can't recall).
Also, I may be splitting hairs here, but I think it's an important distinction to make. When the zombies are created, they receive aspects of the victim's personality. It is not as if the "soul" of the victim is infused into the zombie body. Case in point: Brooke/Ryuuma. Ryuuma has aspects of Brooke's personality, but Brooke is still 100% Brooke. So, this means that Sanji, personality and all, is out there somewhere.
I realize this is based entirely on speculation, but right now it's all we have.
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It's obvious that sanji is that dog-like thing. =P
Anywho as for zoro I dont' know, I think he's just having that bad sence of direction again.
And I hope it leads him to that swords me. :3 <3
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Zoro is the penguin with the "Oliver Twist" hat on.
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Wow. You know oda is just having a freaking blast with this arc.
His fascination/obsession with animals has just been allowed to run INSANE.
Okay so a couple things.
First of all great chapter. The cotinuous banter between Laura and Ab was really getting on my nerves until I saw where he was headed with that so good for him. I can't believe how many creatures he's introducing, it's kuh-raaaazy. Also of note, hooray for me being correct about all those suits coming to life and then some. That's my first hit in a while.
The shadow stuff is increasingly interesting. Oda chose to hide those with stolen shadows in the forest and made a joke out of it, but I'm wondering if there's more to it than that.
Obviously they prey on pirates that fall into their trap so we've got the mystery of the Florian Triangle solved now. But for what purpose? And furthermore, where did they start? Did they use their own crew? And if so, what would be the goal? I'm wondering if this has less to do with Hogback and Cindry than it potentially does Moria and Cindry…..
UNLESS
The two have a somewhat symbiotic relationship whereby Hogback is able to provide Moria with something and Moria provides Hogback with the resources.
Very interesting.
The Penguin/Dog being Sanji's shadow was fantastic and totally unexpected for me. He's been introducing so many 'things' that I instantly wrote them off. Oda for teh win.
Anyway, things are starting to heat up and become clearer and it's possible to start throwing a lot of guesses out there. I love this phase of OP arcs.
It also seems I may have been onto something with Moria not doing the shadow stealing personally. Since they were carrying Usopp and Co. to him, there's no way Sanji could have made it there. So is it indeed Hogback who is able to conduct such a procedure for Moria?
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Also, I may be splitting hairs here, but I think it's an important distinction to make. When the zombies are created, they receive aspects of the victim's personality. It is not as if the "soul" of the victim is infused into the zombie body. Case in point: Brooke/Ryuuma. Ryuuma has aspects of Brooke's personality, but Brooke is still 100% Brooke. So, this means that Sanji, personality and all, is out there somewhere.
I realize this is based entirely on speculation, but right now it's all we have.
Makes perfect sense. Sanji´s real body (with personality) still must be somewhere close.
It's obvious that sanji is that dog-like thing. =P
Actually it´s obvious that it is not Sanji but that it just has Sanji´s Mojo injected to him. WanMQ´s whole post shows why the penguin can only be connected to Sanji but that it isn´t him. Furthermore I´d like to add, that if he was Sanji he would know who Nami, Usopp and Chopper are. Memory stealing wasn´t said to be an element of this arc.
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@Impel:
Zoro is the penguin with the "Oliver Twist" hat on.
wasnt the dog penguin the only new addition? so the other 2 knew each other before… and since zoro dissapeared AFTER saniji...
(i would like to point out the penguins numbers but i cant see them)or were you only kidding? sorry im bad at spotting the jokes =(
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I've been away from the board. Damn it took some time to get through the thread.
Anyway just want to post my opinion so far.I want to post something I found interesting:
how do u guys kno their shadows are stolen? guesses or is there smthg i missed?
[…] Also did anyone else think it was a bit quick the time between sanji being caught and his shadow being zombified. Not just that but it was the rookie zombies from the manor that took him out which seemso suggest this wont be about power. It would be nice to see if the shadows reveal some underlying things to their personalities that we haven't seen before.
@Monkey:
[…] I'm also a bit unsatisfied with shadow-stealing itself because it reeks of magic where I was hoping for mad scientists at work. An unanswered question would be how they managed to transfer the shadow so fast if Moria has barely been awake for minutes and is probably a decent distance away. Actually, I wonder how Hogback was intending to revive the big zombie in his lab if Moria was still sleeping at the moment. Maybe it's not Moria's doing or there's another explanation? […]
Agree. Everybody are so sure about the stealing shadows theory… I mean, yea I do agree that there is still Moria doing-whatever-with-shadows power: squirrels were bringing Nami&Co to Moria as an offer to him (quite sure about that, since Hogback told about put them in the world of shadows aka no more sun light for you aka no shadows http://groups.msn.com/onepiecemangav-2/onepiecechapter450sub.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=11296)). But hence there is something else that turned Sanji in a WTF-dog-penguin (and presumably other zombies… we don't know); I think this stuff is Hogdback-and-his research related: Sanji has been transformed in the mansion and not brought to Moria as the other! However you see that, you might be agree that there have been 2 different treatments for the strawhat crew's members.
Finally I think that the fog around Thriller Bark is due to Moria's DF. (Could be dr. Hogdback's experiment though).[…] solar powered? uhm dont the original bodies without shadows disintigrate in sunlight? […]
This is indeed interesting as well. I do not think about a so-easy-to-explain Moria's shadow stealing ability. At least no so straight. But as well I don't believe the light stealing/redirecting theory, since without light a person has no way to see… so all the shadowless characters should be blind. And of course they should not burn at the sun light since they are not "hit" by any sun ray.
[…] Oh, I'll repost my analysis of the cover story here before it becomes an issue: Dr. Moonwatcher on mecha island saw the big explosion on the moon caused by the space pirate's mining operation. In order to defend the moon from greater harm, he sent his military replica androids to the moon to stop the explosions. The androids want to save the moon because the person they love loves watching it. Enel wants to save the moon because it's his territory as the God of Fairy Vearth. Enel will trounce the space pirates and become the androids god/hero in about two weeks.
The more I read your analysis the more I like it. Can possibly mean that Luffy will meet Enel on the New World in the Mec Island as the god of a new land? (Enel (raw electric energy supply) + Robot (energy user) + Scientist (robot builder) = Wow an Hi-Teck Island).
Long post. Sorry.
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Let me just put down what I had in the spoiler thread for this chapter.
There is so much potential for the shadow/personality stealing zombies that I can hardly wait. If the Thriller Bark crew succeeds in taking the whole crew's shadow/personality they'll probably find that it was more trouble than it's worth.
Sanji's - Disobeying orders to protect a female.
Zoro's - Constantly sleeping, drinking and getting lost.
Nami's - Obsessed with money, treasure and stealing.
Robin's - More concerned with interviewing the other zombie's about their historical background.
Luffy's - always wanting to celebrate, make new friends even of enemies, and not afraid to fight Moira. ?
Chopper's - ?
Franky - ?
Usopp's - Lies, impossible stories of his own grandieur somehow contradicting his long dead state. -
The more I read your analysis the more I like it. Can possibly mean that Luffy will meet Enel on the New World in the Mec Island as the god of a new land? (Enel (raw electric energy supply) + Robot (energy user) + Scientist (robot builder) = Wow an Hi-Teck Island).
this is a comment about manga - anime relations
! Weren't they on Mecha island in the 7th One Piece movie? the one that needed a small baby turtle to find instead of a logpose.
even if they come to mecha island in the manga later i think they should have sufficient energy anyway =PAgree. Everybody are so sure about the stealing shadows theory… I mean, yea I do agree that there is still Moria doing-whatever-with-shadows power: squirrels were bringing Nami&Co to Moria as an offer to him (quite sure about that, since Hogback told about put them in the world of shadows aka no more sun light for you aka no shadows http://groups.msn.com/onepiecemangav…otoI D=11296)). But hence there is something else that turned Sanji in a WTF-dog-penguin (and presumably other zombies… we don't know); I think this stuff is Hogdback-and-his research related: Sanji has been transformed in the mansion and not brought to Moria as the other! However you see that, you might be agree that there have been 2 different treatments for the strawhat crew's members.
Finally I think that the fog around Thriller Bark is due to Moria's DF. (Could be dr. Hogdback's experiment though).we dont really know what the deal with zombie sanji is. he might have been changed by dr hogback instead of moria but didn't he come from morias building rather then hogbacks? and what was that about meals for four days beeing prepared for moria in chapter 449? is he supposed to eat any of our beloved strawhats?
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this is a comment about manga - anime relations
! Weren't they on Mecha island in the 7th One Piece movie? the one that needed a small baby turtle to find instead of a logpose.
even if they come to mecha island in the manga later i think they should have sufficient energy anyway =Pwe dont really know what the deal with zombie sanji is. he might have been changed by dr hogback instead of moria but didn't he come from morias building rather then hogbacks? and what was that about meals for four days beeing prepared for moria in chapter 449? is he supposed to eat any of our beloved strawhats?
Dunno about the movie since I just read the manga. Are they cool? Gotta try maybe once. I leave this matter to you guys, I can't make an opinion on that by my own.
I doubt Sanji has been challenge by Moria: as you said, Moria was sleeping, so it's hard to believe Sanji saw him in action. Besides, there's no way he get to Moria so quickly for several reason: he does not know where Moria his; he had to pass through Perona's garden hence all those WTF creatures; he definitely was heading for Nami and not for Moria.
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sorry by "he" i meant zomji the penguine. not sanji himself. i have no idea where he is =P
I like the movies.. a little extra stuff but namis boobs jiggle a bit too much in the 7th movie for some reason.
the tv specials are gold though… soccer king rules =) -
this is a comment about manga - anime relations
! Weren't they on Mecha island in the 7th One Piece movie? the one that needed a small baby turtle to find instead of a logpose.
even if they come to mecha island in the manga later i think they should have sufficient energy anyway =PDon´t know what exactly that is supposed to say about the manga/anime relations but Tsukimi´s island and the movie 7 island are not one and the same.
The title page story island is called Machine Island (Karakuri) while the one from the movie is Mecha Island (Meka).
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Man, Captain John! That's some story telling, right there.
Otherwise, still loving the mood, and all the crazy creatures and humour.
The…penguin was it? Had me go "WTF" for a moment when he said Sanji's line, as the "Sanji's shadow on another body" thing didn't strike me immediately. -
I think it would be nice for Nami to fight the Warthog-Kokoro thing. She DOES have a sword.
I've also noticed strong similarities between Perona's animals and Gaimon's animals.
CONSPIRACY!
I think it would be cool, since they have so much enemies, that they fight some of the enemies in a whacked out zombie body. So Franky would become some sort of gorilla-zebra, beat the shit out of some zombie generals, then get back to his old self and beat the crap out of the top guys like Hogback.
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Don´t know what exactly that is supposed to say about the manga/anime relations but Tsukimi´s island and the movie 7 island are not one and the same.
The title page story island is called Machine Island (Karakuri) while the one from the movie is Mecha Island (Meka).
sorry bogia refered to it as mecha island in the tital page story. i dont know any japanese so i cant read what its really called, only what others call it =P
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i think now the final fight in this arc will be like the strawhat crew vs. the zombie strawhat crew
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Sanji vs. penguin? Not likely. The entire crew will be turned into the animals Oda thinks they look like. Luffy will be a zombie monkey, Zoro a shark, Sanji's kinda a duck, Nami a cat, so on so forth.
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ok i understand why sanji would be a penguin as he worked at the bartie and served the food. but why the dog face?
and why is he supposed to be a duck?
and why was sanji vs penguin not likely?
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ok i understand why sanji would be a penguin as he worked at the bartie and served the food. but why the dog face?
Uh…....
Why not?Now seriously, what's so wrong with that? I'd rather have Oda's imagination run wild and not having him limited by such trivial things as animals connected to person. You're getting this whole thing wrong.
This includes you too, Impel Down. That's acting like a little kid [no offence, just trying to get my thoughts out.. uh].and why was sanji vs penguin not likely?
Still possible, but I myself will tell it's not likely since to me, he's a gold material to be on the SHs side. Just imagine a combo of him and Sanji trashing a General, and hail.
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@Rai:
Uh…....
Why not?Now seriously, what's so wrong with that? I'd rather have Oda's imagination run wild and not having him limited by such trivial things as animals connected to person. You're getting this whole thing wrong.
This includes you too, Impel Down. That's acting like a little kid [no offence, just trying to get my thoughts out.. uh].Still possible, but I myself will tell it's not likely since to me, he's a gold material to be on the SHs side. Just imagine a combo of him and Sanji trashing a General, and hail.
Rai it was with ID's post in mind i RESPONDED to him =P do i really need to quote everyone im responding to? i usually just use the quick answer.
you misunderstood the whole point of my post i was sceptical to what he said =P