Luffy's trust issues

ONEinchPUNCH

With all the talk of the zoro vs luffy battle I remembered something I'd been wanting to say for quite a while. During the Arlong park arc yosaku (or johnny) told luffy he witnessed nami killing usopp. Luffy got angry and said nami would never do that and later when she admitted it luffy didn't believe it and went to sleep.

Now during the whiskey peak arc zoro saved his crewmates lives by killing the bounty hunters. Luffy wakes up during the ruckus and talks to some random guy he's never seen before in his life. He says zoro went crazy and killed everyone without telling him zoro's true motive. Luffy instantly believes this without protest and proceeds to kill his first crewmate.

Now my point is does this mean anything, does luffy not trust zoro for some reason (I doubt this reason). Or is it just an inconsistancy by Oda (I think it's this but I'd like to hear what others think)

Setzer

Those bounty hunters gave Luffy food.

It's a special case.

Food > Zoro.

Kakaliaha

@Setzer:

Those bounty hunters gave Luffy food.

It's a special case.

Food > Zoro.

QFT thats the exact reason!

Impel Down

Luffy's simple. He can trust/believe whatever he wants.

BlackGalleon1

I think Oda tried to create an opportunity for Luffy and Zoro to fight, probably to show that they are generally around the same level (this is not fodder for a Luffy vs Zoro argument, we have enough on the other thread). However in my opinion the situation was really rather forced, because we know that Luffy and Zoro have always had a strong bond of trust.

fixius

@Setzer:

Those bounty hunters gave Luffy food.

It's a special case.

Food > Zoro.

lol,i think oda has made OP characters make mistakes,luffy did one more when at the heat of the argument with usopp he told him to leave the crew

but i think oda did that to prove they were equal and that ruckous happens inside the crew,they are not all one happy big family

and yet luffy may have done that mistake (i would love to see zoro owning him for being a blockhead) but zoro also tried to attack nami when she said she killed usopp

one piece wasn't so well made then,oda admitted that he wanted one piece to last less than 10 years but now it is gonna last at least another ten,that is why mihawk and shanks were presented so weakened then,if oda went back in time i would guess mihawk would cut all the sea along with krieg's ship

didn't the bandit that wasn't aware who shanks was cause you some thoughts??? or shanks not saving luffy without losing his arm??? even calipha knows geppou

DesertSpada

Maybe because killing wasn't in Nami's character. Zoro is known to kill people.

Dr. Casey

@DesertSpada:

Maybe because killing wasn't in Nami's character. Zoro is known to kill people.

I can kind of understand Luffy believing the bounty hunters at first, but it's hard to accept that he wouldn't even listen to Zoro. I agree that the situation was kind of forced and Luffy wasn't really being himself. Ah well, One Piece isn't a perfect series. It's just a great one.

ONEinchPUNCH

@BlackGalleon1:

I think Oda tried to create an opportunity for Luffy and Zoro to fight, probably to show that they are generally around the same level (this is not fodder for a Luffy vs Zoro argument, we have enough on the other thread). However in my opinion the situation was really rather forced, because we know that Luffy and Zoro have always had a strong bond of trust.

I was thinking it was probably something like this too, since the too are shown to be very close. You can just never tell with Oda's foreshadowing.

@fixius:

but zoro also tried to attack nami when she said she killed usopp

Well this is exactly what I mean zoro only got angry with yosaku maybe reflecting on all the possibilites. He didn't attack nami until she said it to zoro's face, zoro took her word which means he trust her word.

Although he could have just been angry but if in that situation I would have probably done the same thing. It shows zoro cares about usopp, I guess all the others could have been in shock.

Jeeto

Or Luffy is more willing to believe that a good friend is less likely to kill another good friend rather than a good friend killing random people that luffy only likes because they were nice to him.

To be fair, Zoro DID kill them, Luffy just didn't know why. Nami, however did not actually kill Usopp.

I think Luffy's "trust" problem is not with Zoro, but rather in how willingly he'll trust ANYONE.

Kma

@Setzer:

Those bounty hunters gave Luffy food.

It's a special case.

Food > Zoro.

Haha ya that brings back memories. Afterwards Luffy was like O I thought you got angry because they didnt have your favourite food

fixius

@ONEinchPUNCH:

Although he could have just been angry but if in that situation I would have probably done the same thing. It shows zoro cares about usopp, I guess all the others could have been in shock.

i too would have done the same if it wasn't a woman but we are talking about zoro here,he may care for usopp,he may have said that chopper been beaten burned him inside but he always tries to take none side and not to use his emotions cause it makes the blade less sharp

if you remember the scene when luffy argued with usopp only zoro didn't say something

it was unatural with the data of the current zoro for zoro back then to get all emotional,on the other hand oda might have shown that zoro except of strenght may have made his concetration stronger too

Ramza

i forgot who said this but it goes something like this…
there are three types of people
-ones that act on the stomach
-ones that act on the heart
-ones that act on the brain

luffy is the type that acts on the stomach XD

ONEinchPUNCH

@fixius:

i too would have done the same if it wasn't a woman but we are talking about zoro here,he may care for usopp,he may have said that chopper been beaten burned him inside but he always tries to take none side and not to use his emotions cause it makes the blade less sharp

True he could have been bluffing to see what nami would do, too bad sanji interfered.

if you remember the scene when luffy argued with usopp only zoro didn't say something

This was different though zoro never interferes with people pride.

it was unatural with the data of the current zoro for zoro back then to get all emotional,on the other hand oda might have shown that zoro except of strenght may have made his concetration stronger too

This is true current zoro probably would have done things alot differently.

@Jeeto:

Or Luffy is more willing to believe that a good friend is less likely to kill another good friend rather than a good friend killing random people that luffy only likes because they were nice to him.

To be fair, Zoro DID kill them, Luffy just didn't know why. Nami, however did not actually kill Usopp.

I think Luffy's "trust" problem is not with Zoro, but rather in how willingly he'll trust ANYONE.

I like this post too

fixius

@ONEinchPUNCH:

True he could have been bluffing to see what nami would do, too bad sanji interfered.

i think he would have hit nami with the back of the sword or stop the sword in front of her face and after saying something he would leave but indeed now he would act differently

This was different though zoro never interferes with people pride.

hmmm,you are right,it was the captain's pride vs the later prooved stuborness of usopp to part ways with merry and even if usopp was flamed by luffy he should have obeyed his captain so indeed he was right not to interefere

Tsuchirinhon

Luffy has shown several times of short-tempered outburts. Nami's supposed murder, the argument with Usopp about Going Merry's condition, thinking that Zoro murdered innocent people, etc.

Luffy is not a flawless individual. He sometimes takes things too seriously and tends to jump into things without thinking. Without his nakama to aid him [especially with such issues], he'd never survive the Grand Line.

Impel Down

Well, plus he wouldn't have food, he wouldn't have a boat, he wouldn't know where to go, he couldn't get his wounds treated, so on so forth.

sgamer82

@Jeeto:

Or Luffy is more willing to believe that a good friend is less likely to kill another good friend rather than a good friend killing random people that luffy only likes because they were nice to him.

To be fair, Zoro DID kill them, Luffy just didn't know why. Nami, however did not actually kill Usopp.

I think Luffy's "trust" problem is not with Zoro, but rather in how willingly he'll trust ANYONE.

Also worth noting is that Zoro admitted to taking them out. So he confirmed what Luffy had already been told. However, Luffy didn't give Zoro a chance to explain what happened. Luffy was quick to mend fences once the situation had finally had a chance to be explained.

boiga

The other thing to note is that Luffy was told that Nami killed a nakama. Luffy would be incapable of believing that any of his friends would kill a nakama because their bond is too strong. If luffy was told that Zoro had killed Usopp he would have had the same reaction as he did for nami.

However, zoro was blamed for killing townspeople because they didn't have the kind of food he wanted. From luffy's point of view, this would be extremely believable because zoro has been known to go on murderous rampages on occasion.

dinty

Setzer, your theory rules! (I may have to borrow that for a sig, if you'll let me).

About Nami and Zoro :

The key thing to remember in the Arlong arc scene mentioned above is that Zoro had previously teased Nami because she was not able to take someone's life. She had the opportunity to kill Zoro twice at Arlong park, but both times, she spared his life instead of taking it.

So when Yosaku (an old friend of Zoro's) said he'd witnessed Nami killing Usopp, and when Nami herself confirmed the rumor, Zoro probably felt as if Nami had only killed Usopp to prove to him (Zoro) that she was capable of killing someone! (I doubt Zoro would have teased her about her inability to take a life if he felt she would race off and kill someone just to prove him wrong).

That's why I think Zoro fought Nami : because to him, the evidence pointed to her having killed Usopp.

Now, for Sanji and Luffy :

Ok, think back to what Luffy and Sanji knew about Nami then. They knew that Nami had stolen the ship, and that she was headed for Arlong Park. They knew that while she was with them at Baratie she was friendly, cheerful and a bit flirty. They knew nothing about her relationship to Arlong ; nothing about her contradictory behavior towards Zoro while he was a captive of Arlong ; nothing about the reasons why she'd been accumulating treasure. So when they see this charming young lady (who inadvertantly stole a ship!) and hear stories of her being a cold-blooded murderer – as told to them by a guy they've only recently met and may or may not trust yet -- ... which impression do you suppose will prevail?

Add Luffy's set-in-stone insistance that Nami be his navigator, as well as Sanji's inability to doubt the motives of any woman, any you can see why they'd refuse to believe that Nami is a murderer!

And even though Nami is proven not to be a murderer eventually, she'd given Zoro such mixed messages up until that point, that it took a long time for him to learn to trust her. Something like three or four arcs ...

Link-kun

Luffy trust issues was already solved so I'll give my two cents on the whole Zoro thing.

Zoro attacked Nami with out any remorse because
1. Yosaku said it so to him it had to be true
2. It's mutany
3. He doesn't have as much history with her (and the crew) as he does now. If this were to happen again he would do things diffrently
And 4. He thought of her as a lecherous woman. Which he still thinks.

ONEinchPUNCH

@boiga:

The other thing to note is that Luffy was told that Nami killed a nakama. Luffy would be incapable of believing that any of his friends would kill a nakama because their bond is too strong. If luffy was told that Zoro had killed Usopp he would have had the same reaction as he did for nami.

Well he was told nami killed usopp and he went crazy refusing to believe it. He was then told by nami that she killed usopp and luffy still refused to believe and went to sleep.

But at whiskey peak some random guy told luffy zoro killed them all and he instantly believed it, not protesting at all. Then when he meets zoro he gives him no chance to explain and tries to kill him.

I just find that extremely strange but like a few have said it was done to show where the two stand, so the was slightly forced.

@dinty:

Setzer, your theory rules! (I may have to borrow that for a sig, if you'll let me).

About Nami and Zoro :

The key thing to remember in the Arlong arc scene mentioned above is that Zoro had previously teased Nami because she was not able to take someone's life. She had the opportunity to kill Zoro twice at Arlong park, but both times, she spared his life instead of taking it.

So when Yosaku (an old friend of Zoro's) said he'd witnessed Nami killing Usopp, and when Nami herself confirmed the rumor, Zoro probably felt as if Nami had only killed Usopp to prove to him (Zoro) that she was capable of killing someone! (I doubt Zoro would have teased her about her inability to take a life if he felt she would race off and kill someone just to prove him wrong).

That's why I think Zoro fought Nami : because to him, the evidence pointed to her having killed Usopp.

You know I never thought of zoro seeing it as his fault due to pressuring nami, saying she couldn't kill anyone. Nice point dinty you've added another dimension to the answer, all that's left now is

Would zoro have killed nami? Or was he merely threatening her?

In my opinion I can't see him killing any strawhat, I think he'd have used the back of his sword and questioned her. Since he was so confident about nami not being able to kill, with her saving him from drowning. So he'd be wanting some proof of usopps death and when she can't show that he'd know she was lying.

Pants-eater

Setzer ended the thread.

Gamabounta

@ONEinchPUNCH:

Well he was told nami killed usopp and he went crazy refusing to believe it. He was then told by nami that she killed usopp and luffy still refused to believe and went to sleep.

But at whiskey peak some random guy told luffy zoro killed them all and he instantly believed it, not protesting at all. Then when he meets zoro he gives him no chance to explain and tries to kill him.

I just find that extremely strange but like a few have said it was done to show where the two stand, so the was slightly forced.

Imo, as it was already stated, Oda wanted to draw a Luffy vs Zoro fight.

About Luffy trusting someone he didn't know, well … he just had been told they were all defeated by Zoro. It was true, indeed.
My point is that Luffy believed the truth, =Zoro attacking them. Since meat >>> Zoro, he just got mad without knowing Zoro reasons, and we know the following.

There is no issue with Luffy trust, he's almost always never wrong about things that really matters ^^.

Link-kun

I hope you guys were joking about the meat thing. Luffy has offered his nakama food before.

Kma

I always thought the reason why Zoro treated Nami the way he does is because he dosent think that women should be treated any differently then men. His past with Kuina makes view women that way. However though he secretly still probaly has a feeling that its a mans duty to protect a woman (Robin in Skypia)

Like someone said Luffy probaly just didnt think Nami was capable of murdering anyone.