Where everyone stands in OP??

fixius

I want to know how it is written in RAW (Japanese). Because I'm pretty sure it translated to "Greatest Power" in Chinese. And the Greatest Power of the Marines consists of more than just Aokiji.

Either way, I'd like to judge Aokiji's strength after seeing what the other Admirals and Sengoku are capable of. The other 2 Admirals are Unknown, Sengoku is Unknown, and all Garp did was let Luffy escape.

I know rank alone doesn't mean anything, but I believe that when you are the leader, you at least won't be 'Weaker' than the people you lead.
Luffy, Whitebeard, Shanks, and Sengoku are all leaders. (CP9's leader doesn't count lol…he's more of a comedy guy)

--Also...i dont really see the balance of "The 3 World Powers" if the "strongest marine Aokiji"'s DF power is only as strong as the Captain of the 2nd Division (Ace) of one of the Yonkou (Whitebeard)...

aokiji is the strongest,also once uppon a time aokiji and sengoku had the same rank and nobody said all marines are stronger than sengoku

and how do you know BB could beat aokiji?????
@Gorlom:

On what do you base that Aokiji = Ace? Aokiji has had his DF power for almost Aces entire life (maybe even since before Ace was born)
Also Blackbeard questions Ace how long it has been since Ace took a physical hit. That to me indicates a rather weak body as ace is allways avoiding to get used to punishment.
Aokiji on the otherhand takes Luffys pistol attack head on before freezeing his fist. Zoro and Aokiji are also locked in a stalemate untill sanji kicks away his iceweapon, after which Aokiji surprises them both by swiftly grabbing them freezing part of their bodies.

the Blue pheasant is imo much more used to hand to hand combat AND more atuned to his power.

why is aokiji judged only by his DF??? why can't he be like mihawk or WB but the only differance is he has a DF???

Gorlom

….. what fixus? could you read what you quoted from me again please...

fixius

@Gorlom:

….. what fixus? could you read what you quoted from me again please...

it was more pointed to roku ou gan but u too where talking only about his fruit

we don't know if logia can be hurt with some kinda technique,we don't know if logia can activate their fruit or it is like a paramecia and it is always turned on,we don't know how much aokiji depends in his fruit

i know you kinda meant that aokiji can't be judged by as i said my post was more pointed to roku ou gan

Gorlom

@fixius:

it was more pointed to roku ou gan but u too where talking only about his fruit

No i wasn't. You missunderstood me if you think so. I edited my post and bolded what was important and used paranthesises around what is not but mentioned anyway.

My point beeing is that Aokiji was partakeing in Hand to hand combat something i have never seen ace do and probably not blackbeard either since he comments on it.

sadrhg

Considering how Teach got his DF recently I imagine Teach has fought at hand to hand several times.

ONEinchPUNCH

And considering Blackbeard basically only used his DF to make contact with ace, I'd say he's a hand to hand.

FireFistAce 0

@Moria:

Alright, OneinPunch, instead of picking on people younger than you, I think I would like to call a truce. I'm getting bored of arguing with people like you. I understand what he meant now, so if you would mind, could you stop talking to me now?
Also, to FF Ace, I know this is a bit farfetched but do you think that the colors correspond to their strength and devil fruit abilities? Aokiji had ice and a blue color. I have always just thought like Akainu, since he's red would have magma. However, since Eneru has appeared, lightning is somewhat out of the picture, so the only thing I can think of is… "light."

I always thought it would be cool if Akainu was blood, like the Chi chi no Mi. How badass would a blood logia be? Although he may not even have one, and the red may refer to his sense of justice.

The names comes from Momotaro, an old Japanese Fairytale. If there's an Onigashima island in One Piece, we'll see all 3 of them there.

And as for Kizaru, I always thought his power would be related to disease somehow. Since zombies are out (because of the current arc), it's possible he could have the power of sickness and decay, which is probably why he hasn't been mentioned yet (Who would want to hang around a guy who causes you to get sick?)

And Fixius, sorry, but that quote doesn't cut it. They're not referring to Kuzan individually, but to all 3 Admirals in general. The "Strongest of the Marines".

Roku Ou Gan

Do you honestly think Sengoku, a guy with 'War' in his name, is just all brains?
Tsuru is already the 'advisor' or brain if u want to call it that, of the Marines…the head of the marines isn't just a bunch of nerds.

Aokiji didn't demonstrate much fighting ability, the sword clash with zoro is just a sword clash, doesn't mean even swordplay or anything. The part where luffy dashed, ducked under his straight and sent him flying into the air was pretty straightforward.

Aokiji's movements are quite sluggish, like the property ice. Also, how would u know he 'took' luffy's punch instead of using his ability to get around it. Ice can be pretty hard you know. To me that wasn't a Hand-to-hand combat, it was just grab, freeze, hug, freeze...a demonstration of his Ice power.

I didn't think i need to bring up their hand-to-hand combat because Logia users rarely rely on hand-to-hand combat. Ace to me tho, is more reasonable to be more efficient in hand-to-hand combat, for even his DF move is based on a Seiken (straight punch in karate) and it's been said that he beats Luffy even before he obtained the fruit. (Timeline: Luffy eats Gomu at very young age, trains under Garp along with Ace who did not have DF back then, loses)
That's why i think he won't lose to Aokiji in hand to hand combat, and their DF are regular Logia fruits (Blackbeard's would be considered irregular i guess), i didn't want to bring up Fire melts Ice because I dont think they'll fight each other so why bother.
So in both aspects Ace wont lose to Aokiji, im not saying he's gotta be better, im saying they're pretty evenly matched from what we have seen thus far.

Where did blackbeard come from though...

and how do you know BB could beat aokiji?????

I didn't say anything about Blackbeard…but now that you mention it, if Darkness can absorb everything, Ice is included. If BB's power can negate all DF powers, then Ice power is included. I dont see why can't BB beat him.

And i never said all the marines are stronger than Sengoku...I just meant he should be stronger than the Admirals that are under his command.

sadrhg

Last time I checked Blackbeard can't let attacks go through him like every other Logia. That is partly why he can't beat Aokiji.

Blackbeard's darkness may be able to absorb anything but Teach himself can't. Hence Eneru could electrocute Teach and Aokiji could freeze him.

I don't see why it's so hard to believe that Sengoku could be weaker than Aokiji and still be a higher rank. Spandam has proven it is possible.

ONEinchPUNCH

@Fire Fist:

And Fixius, sorry, but that quote doesn't cut it. They're not referring to Kuzan individually, but to all 3 Admirals in general. The "Strongest of the Marines".

The quote clearly states aokiji as the Marine Hq's strongest, there is no generalization and no mention of anyone else.

Gorlom

@Roku:

Do you honestly think Sengoku, a guy with 'War' in his name, is just all brains?

the words i used were "more brains then brawns". he may still have fighting ability but most important is to be able to lead over any form of power display.
would you really be part of a large scale world wide organization where the leader is nothing but a powerhouse?
Pirates may do that but upholders of the law?

Also wasnt he nicknamed Buddah? enlightenment ring a bell?

Our opinios differ what a leader should be like. lets just agree to that.

Aokiji didn't demonstrate much fighting ability, the sword clash with zoro is just a sword clash, doesn't mean even swordplay or anything. The part where luffy dashed, ducked under his straight and sent him flying into the air was pretty straightforward.

Aokiji's movements are quite sluggish, like the property ice. Also, how would u know he 'took' luffy's punch instead of using his ability to get around it. Ice can be pretty hard you know. To me that wasn't a Hand-to-hand combat, it was just grab, freeze, hug, freeze…a demonstration of his Ice power.

because if Robin can break his iceform apart using grappeling moves Luffy should by reason be able to smash his iceform into bits with the strengh he has show. (i see no reason for Aokiji to have 2 different iceforms there).
I think it was his flesh that took the straight hit, and that he turned into ice for Robins attack that utilizes anatomical weaknesses and cant be withstood with mere body strength.

the sword clash wasnt meant to display sword play. the reason i brought it up was that he doesnt entirely rely on his logia to let every blow pass through him like Ace does. He still retains some of his hand to hand skills even though he has had the fruit for so long.

even though he was slugggish he was fast enough to surprise Zoro and Sanji and grab them.

Remeber we havent seen Aokijis full strenght as he easily overpowered Luffy.
Ace presumably lost against BB though.

I didn't think i need to bring up their hand-to-hand combat because Logia users rarely rely on hand-to-hand combat. Ace to me tho, is more reasonable to be more efficient in hand-to-hand combat, for even his DF move is based on a Seiken (straight punch in karate) and it's been said that he beats Luffy even before he obtained the fruit.
So in both aspects Ace wont lose to Aokiji, im not saying he's gotta be better, im saying they're pretty evenly matched from what we have seen thus far.

He seems quite helpless against Blackbeards attacks though. as you say logia doesnt rely on hand to hand which means Ace stopped training his body. he hasnt had to take an attack for ages.

again Aokiji doesnt seem to entirely rely on Just DF power. he is probably smart enough to realize that his DF power can be countered just like crocodiles and enels was.

fixius

@Gorlom:

He seems quite helpless against Blackbeards attacks though. as you say logia doesnt rely on hand to hand which means Ace stopped training his body. he hasnt had to take an attack for ages.

again Aokiji doesnt seem to entirely rely on Just DF power. he is probably smart enough to realize that his DF power can be countered just like crocodiles and enels was.

i agree,if aokiji is just a logia i doubt he coud just rely on his DF and be the strongest of the marines,luffy has trained his logia so maybe so did aokiji,we have seen weak logia so far,logia that only depended on their fruit but i doubt aokiji is like that,otherwise why isn't smoker the strongest marine?? he has a seastone sword and he has a logia,techniques to hurt logia without sea stone must exist and aokiji is propably strong cuz he is strong,not only cuz of his fruit

Gerikhabarovsk

i agree,if aokiji is just a logia i doubt he coud just rely on his DF and be the strongest of the marines,luffy has trained his logia so maybe so did aokiji,we have seen weak logia so far,logia that only depended on their fruit but i doubt aokiji is like that,otherwise why isn't smoker the strongest marine?? he has a seastone sword and he has a logia,techniques to hurt logia without sea stone must exist and aokiji is propably strong cuz he is strong,not only cuz of his fruit

Yeah. Aokiji might be Rokushiki user, although not fully master it or any Art. If Coby could learn Soru, so be him.

I'm going to disagree with you there, it's fully possible that the leader is more brains then brawns.. SOMEONE in the organisation must be the one that thinks.
while Spandam is a comidy character it proves a point: you dont rise in the ranks only based on power.. there are other criterias and measurements of ability.

Yes, it possible. But in OP world; the higher rank he get, so be his strength. Yet they no fool. Apparently, i'm sure they're stronger than their man[Sengoku, Aokiji, WB, Garp, Shanks..] *Spandyne words reveal that his position was passed to his son, Spandam. And i don't mention this type of position.

Gorlom

Spandyne seemed pretty weak as well imo.

Also he's requesting that it is passed on to his son, we have no idea if the Marines did that to accomondate Spandyne or if they acctually thought Spandam was suiteble for the position.

Admirals was the Marines "assult force" iirc. Who is to that there isnt a clerical set of ranks on the side to the military ranks? What if Sengoku rose through those ranks to become Leader of the organization? He may never acctually have sailed into battle.

The highest commanding officer doesnt allways lead his men into the front lines. A major part of "war" (as was mentioned to be his part of his name) is to plan a winning strategy. Imo a more important part then to ride in on his horse and shout "Tally ho" and slash at the enemies.

OFC i do acknowlage(sp?) that he may be stronger then the admirals. i just dont think it is so or like the idea.

ramza85

@Gorlom:

What if Sengoku rose through those ranks to become Leader of the organization? He may never acctually have sailed into battle.

He entered the meeting calling Lofulamingo & Bisoromi trash. I say he is insanely strong. He is even referred to by WhiteBeard himself, in chapter 434, something about that age.

sadrhg

Doflamingo evidently doesn't think very much of Sengoku seeing as how he apparently tried to use his powers on him.

Doflamingo may be arrogant but I don't think he's dumb enough to pick fights with people unless he's sure he'll win.

And of course he would call Doflamingo and Kuma trash. Their pirates.

And yes Whitebeard spoke nicely of him but that doesn't prove he's anywhere higher than Garp or Doflamingo's level.

Polygon

@Gorlom:

Admirals was the Marines "assult force" iirc. Who is to that there isnt a clerical set of ranks on the side to the military ranks? What if Sengoku rose through those ranks to become Leader of the organization? He may never acctually have sailed into battle.

That makes no sense whatsoever. Even the greatest Commanding Officers went into battle at one point or another.

Gerikhabarovsk

> That makes no sense whatsoever. Even the greatest Commanding Officers went into battle at one point or another. Even Fleet General Nimitz went into the battle of WW II, and any other..

Gorlom

Ok that was probably a bit stupid of me to say. I retract that statement about him possibly never sailing into battle.

Polygon

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fixius

i think sengoku has strategic abilities except of strenght and aokiji is a goofy-sleepy-lazy bastard and that is why he isn't the supreme admiral!!!! though from what we have shown of aokiji i think he is extremely smart but he has his own way of jsutice that isn't as cruel as the justice akainu or the BC VA showed us

infact if aokiji became the supreme admiral i think the marines would demonstate a more human side but i think he has some plans of his own so that is why he gave the silver den den mushi to spandam and he let luffy escape numerous times (after the foxy fight,while they were partying in W7,when he was in garp's ship) maybe aokiji as shanks knows something about the D that we don't and want luffy to advance

Roku Ou Gan

He seems quite helpless against Blackbeards attacks though. as you say logia doesnt rely on hand to hand which means Ace stopped training his body. he hasnt had to take an attack for ages.

Again, Ace is the only Logia fruit user Oda has really verbally complimented/hinted that he's skilled in handtohand combat. (One time through Luffy, another time through BB's crew) Why would you doubt his fighting abilities just because he lost to Blackbeard who is possibly the main villain of OP because Oda's favorite real pirate is Edward Teach? (also the blueprint for BB).

Even though I personally dont think Aokiji is the strongest marine, I do think it isn't unreasonable for him to be the strongest because Aokiji is really similar to Smoker, he might just quit the marines one day and aid Smoker. This way Smoker's side can actually have a chance going up against both new world Pirates and possibly his former superiors. This's just all hypothesis though.

A major part of "war" (as was mentioned to be his part of his name) is to plan a winning strategy.

Tsuru is the strategist/tactician of the marines. She seems very important so i doubt there's need for another strategist/tactician (like Nami will be the only navigator of SH). Therefore i doubt he's the strategy guy.

lpzie

@Hawkeye:

I love this forum hahahahaha

Well, I hate you and this forum, stranger hahahahaha

I hate this forum so much that I sit in my room all day in the dark thinking about the GOLDEN thread that I'm destined to create. Don't worry, I'll come up with it soon.

Sea king

I think people should not equate bounties to Power Level . Also, what exactly is Shichibukai Level?

Gerikhabarovsk

@Sea:

I think people should not equate bounties to Power Level . Also, what exactly is Shichibukai Level?

I think.. It's the level, that most of people and other average pirates tremble with fear when their names mentioned..

Georgey D. Loopey

Zoro with a seastone sword/hilt = Killer. But it wouldn't work on MH though…

SuperStar

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GumGumBattleAxe

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Angel emfrbl

This post is deleted!

Carly

Before I dig deeper into this thread to see what kind of other dumb stuff ~~psoloras~~ fixius was putting up, are we being civil in here or has everything kinda fizzled out?

Gorlom

seeems this thread has been dead for 12 days so it seems it is "civil"

why was the villain questionare deleted btw? too offtopic?

Carly

because it had absolutely nothing to do with the topic

Lobolover

Id just like to know whats this "great event" that Oda mentioned in the last panel of the Ace VS. Blackbeard fight,I havent seen anyone talking about it, but if theres a thread for that,then I apologize for a possible misplaced post.

Angel emfrbl

@Gorlom:

Ok that was probably a bit stupid of me to say. I retract that statement about him possibly never sailing into battle.

Well historically, at some point in time it was discovered if the king and all the kings son were at a battle and everyone was killed all the heirs of the king would die. So instead of leading the king leding a general/commander was put in charge.

It becomes more and more notable the more you come towards modern day warfare. Was President Bush fighting in Iraq? No. Were any of his commanders. Mostly No. They visited after the fighting was over, but not before.

It is quite possible, merit not experience could have gotten him thus far. As for not fearing Doflamingo, when your in charge of the largest WG supported organisation, why you you fear one pirate? At your command you can call a B.Call or start a war… You don't need to be strong, knowing you have that much support can be your strength.

Lobolover

Hey,finally caught you in AP.I KNOW I should be on the Wikia uploading pictures,but…......you know.

PS:They call me NB ,if that rings a bell.