Where everyone stands in OP??

[fixius]

As usual it is a speculation thread so take it easy

luffy's extremely big bounty and thriller bark made me wonder

in the begining when luffy got a 300mil bounty we all agreed it was because of EL cuz his bounty surpassed bartholomew kuma's bounty and was close with donflamingo

BUT now luffy is yet to face gecko moria,another schichibukai and his bounty will propably rise up again if luffy defeats him

so is luffy on schichibukai level??? and what is the schichibukai level?? what is the marine level?? and what is the yonkou level??

before the bounties and gecko moria i believed that the SH had a long way to go to be somewhere near a schichibukai and that croc was an exception since his bounty was near 5 times smaller than donflamingo

also when the logia were introduced and luffy said that plenty of guys were stronger than enel in the sea i believed even more that there were techniques to harm logia without sea stone

but now it seems to me that every power has one or two guys that are way ahead of the others,i believe that mihawk and BB and maybe jinbei or the other that is unknown might the only capable of harming a logia and mihawk may be the only capable of doing that without a DF or sea stone within the schichibukai

also when the VA were introduced everyone thought they were too good for the SH but with the last events it seems they might be weaker than the cp9

i seem to believe this cuz if luffy is yet to defeat another schichibukai then indeed my thoughts are true and luffy deserves that bounty and zoro's and sanji's should be near to luffy

the schibukai=the yonkou but WB vs shanks split the sky with a single hit that clashed in each other's blade and if luffy is yet to defeat another schichibukai and believe me he is nowhere near splitting even a small cloud then phew must be on WB's and shanks' and mihawk's level (i mention mihawk cuz since shanks is a swordsman he is stronger and they were rivals once upon a time)

i think WB and shanks are way ahead of the other yonkou due yonkou=schichibukai and that the marines except of smoker and garp only the admirals and sengoku are in a big level and mihawk,BB and maybe jinbei or the remaining schichibukai are in a big level from the schichibukai

also remember what usopp said when aokiji showed up:

"Usopp: Then why is he HERE?!!
…he should be going after the big pirates worth billions!!!
G... GO AWAY!!"

so the question is where everyone from one piece stands in terms of power??
what do you think?? and who are the ones that are strong enough to fight a logia head on without a DF or sea stone??? even BB couldn't fight a logia without his DF,do you think aokiji can harm a logia even though he is one??? and do you think indeed only a few members of the 3 powers are light years ahead of the SHs?? and the pirates within these people could indedd worth billions??

[Aldrich]

@fixius:

also when the VA were introduced everyone thought they were too good for the SH but with the last events it seems they might be weaker than the cp9

Doubleyou Tee Eff?

[Pants-eater]

I think the entire post demands a Doubleyou Tee Eff.

[Tsuchirinhon]

One Piece is unique in that the enemies aren't necessarily stronger than the previous enemies. Enel could probably wipe the floor with CP9, and Arlong would almost certainly ruin Bellamy's and Wapol's faces.

Luffy has been extremely strong from the beginning. Granted, he does grow as any character would, but he didn't really have any trouble with the beginning opponents; Crocodile was the first enemy to truly give Luffy any difficulty.

Moreover, as plenty of people have stated, the bounty of a character is not an entirely accurate portrayal of that character's strength. It does give an idea of power [and helps the younger audience have numbers to compare with, much like Toriyama's Dragonball], but it can't be precise. Oda has stated that Arlong's and Crocodile's bounties do not reflect their actual abilities, while Enel never had a bounty until Oda stated its possible value.

[fixius]

FLAME POSTS OF THIS THREAD

@Aldrich:

Doubleyou Tee Eff?

@Pants-eater:

I think the entire post demands a Doubleyou Tee Eff.

@Beautiful:

His Powerlevel Is Above Five Thouuuuuuusssaaaaaaaaaaaannnnd!!!

@Gerikhabarovsk:

He is on the right track to be Pirate King..

Hell..

"Hiccup"..

@Aldrich:

I just skimmed through the rest until I stumbled across "VA", I'd be interested to know what kind of reasoning brought the brilliant forward thinker that is the OP to the conclusion they now look weaker than CP9.

@Aldrich:

So Vice Admirals now look weaker than CP9 cause Luffy is going to fight against Gecko Moria.

IT MAKES PREFCET SINSE

i couldn't care less for your flames,i am aiming for answers from people that can see 2 chapters ahead

(and this post is yet to be edited numerous times)

[Beautiful Gubbbies]

His Powerlevel Is Above Five Thouuuuuuusssaaaaaaaaaaaannnnd!!!

[Gerikhabarovsk]

so is luffy on schichibukai level??? and what is the schichibukai level?? what is the marine level?? and what is the yonkou level??

He is on the right track to be Pirate King..

also when the VA were introduced everyone thought they were too good for the SH but with the last events it seems they might be weaker than the cp9

Hell..

I think the entire post demands a Doubleyou Tee Eff.

"Hiccup"..

[fixius]

@Cyringohn:

One Piece is unique in that the enemies aren't necessarily stronger than the previous enemies. Enel could probably wipe the floor with CP9, and Arlong would almost certainly ruin Bellamy's and Wapol's faces.

Luffy has been extremely strong from the beginning. Granted, he does grow as any character would, but he didn't really have any trouble with the beginning opponents; Crocodile was the first enemy to truly give Luffy any difficulty.

Moreover, as plenty of people have stated, the bounty of a character is not an entirely accurate portrayal of that character's strength. It does give an idea of power [and helps the younger audience have numbers to compare with, much like Toriyama's Dragonball], but it can't be precise. Oda has stated that Arlong's and Crocodile's bounties do not reflect their actual abilities, while Enel never had a bounty until Oda stated its possible value.

i know that but if luffy beats gecko moria that i think has been said to have 370 mil bounty (if that wasn't a fake spoiler) then doesn't he deserve his bounty??

and if he is able to defeat schibukai's so early in the strory and considering what we saw about shanks vs WB and know about mihawk then aren't those characters light years ahead of other schichibukai??

and due to the balance aren't those characters equally light years ahead than the most people in the 3 powers??

[FireFistAce 0]

@fixius:

As usual it is a speculation thread so take it easy

luffy's extremely big bounty and thriller bark made me wonder

in the begining when luffy got a 300mil bounty we all agreed it was because of EL cuz his bounty surpassed bartholomew kuma's bounty and was close with donflamingo

BUT now luffy is yet to face gecko moria,another schichibukai and his bounty will propably rise up again if luffy defeats him

so is luffy on schichibukai level??? and what is the schichibukai level?? what is the marine level?? and what is the yonkou level??

There's no defining line for what makes a Shichibukai or a Yonkou. Shichibukai are pirates who pay tribute to the government in exchange for amnesty. The Yonkou are pirates who are regarded as Emperors and choose not to support the government.

before the bounties and gecko moria i believed that the SH had a long way to go to be somewhere near a schichibukai and that croc was an exception since his bounty was near 5 times smaller than donflamingo

B. Bear's frozen bounty was only 280 million. Currently, Luffy exceeds this. But barring him and Croc, the other Shichibukai's bounties are exceeding Luffy's currently. But bear in mind, their bounties are frozen. Luffy's continues to rise as he commits crimes.

also when the logia were introduced and luffy said that plenty of guys were stronger than enel in the sea i believed even more that there were techniques to harm logia without sea stone

but now it seems to me that every power has one or two guys that are way ahead of the others,i believe that mihawk and BB and maybe jinbei or the other that is unknown might the only capable of harming a logia and mihawk may be the only capable of doing that without a DF or sea stone within the schichibukai

What about Doflamingo? His bounty is higher than Moria's. And we know nothing about Jimbei to make an assumption… yet.

also when the VA were introduced everyone thought they were too good for the SH but with the last events it seems they might be weaker than the cp9

The only Vice Admirals we've seen fight are Garp and Saul, and Saul was chucking around massive BC battleships and Garp was a human cannon. We haven't seen any of the other ones fight, so we have no gauge of their strength.

the schibukai=the yonkou but WB vs shanks split the sky with a single hit that clashed in each other's blade and if luffy is yet to defeat another schichibukai and believe me he is nowhere near splitting even a small cloud then phew must be on WB's and shanks' and mihawk's level (i mention mihawk cuz since shanks is a swordsman he is stronger and they were rivals once upon a time)

Wrong. Mihawk is a better swordsman. He's not stronger than Shanks. In fact, it's unknown who is stronger. If anything, Shanks is more resourceful, considering he has lived the latter years of his life with a handicap and experienced no loss in power or ability.

i think WB and shanks are way ahead of the other yonkou due yonkou=schichibukai and that the marines except of smoker and garp only the admirals and sengoku are in a big level and mihawk,BB and maybe jinbei or the remaining schichibukai are in a big level from the schichibukai

also remember what usopp said when aokiji showed up:

"Usopp: Then why is he HERE?!!
…he should be going after the big pirates worth billions!!!
G... GO AWAY!!"

so the question is where everyone from one piece stands in terms of power??
what do you think?? and who are the ones that are strong enough to fight a logia head on without a DF or sea stone??? even BB couldn't fight a logia without his DF,do you think aokiji can harm a logia even though he is one??? and do you think indeed only a few members of the 3 powers are light years ahead of the SHs??

I think that Shanks, Mihawk, Whitebeard, and Kuzan are the most powerful men currently in One Piece. Though we have 2 Shichibukai, 2 Yonkou, an Admiral, and Sakazuki's power to be revealed, these are the men we KNOW hold the most strength in the world.

And of course, the Gorosei are the highest political power in the world.

It occurs to me that Luffy doesn't have to fight EVERY powerful opponent, just those that get in his way. As long as he achieves his dream, then nothing else really matters, right?

[Gerikhabarovsk]

B. Bear's frozen bounty was only 280 million.

Precisely, 296 M..

What about Doflamingo? His bounty is higher than Moria's

How?? Doflamingo: 340 M –- Moria: 370 M..

Though we have 2 Shichibukai, 2 Yonkou, an Admiral, and Sakazuki's power to be revealed, these are the men we KNOW hold the most strength in the world.

That left only 1 Shichibukai..

[FireFistAce 0]

@Gerikhabarovsk:

Precisely, 296 M..

How?? Doflamingo: 340 M –- Gecko: 370 M..
That left only 1 Shichibukai..

Okay, I stand corrected on those. Except there are TWO Shichibukai yet to be revealed. Jimbei is revealed in NAME only. We know nothing about him, other than he's a Gyojin and his name means Whale Shark.

[fixius]

@Fire Fist:

There's no defining line for what makes a Shichibukai or a Yonkou. Shichibukai are pirates who pay tribute to the government in exchange for amnesty. The Yonkou are pirates who are regarded as Emperors and choose not to support the government.

when BB was introduced from laffite as a next schichibukai he was said that they needed to see something of him and BB was positive that with defeating a man worth more than or 100mil he could achieve his first goal

B. Bear's frozen bounty was only 280 million. Currently, Luffy exceeds this. But barring him and Croc, the other Shichibukai's bounties are exceeding Luffy's currently. But bear in mind, their bounties are frozen. Luffy's continues to rise as he commits crimes.

nobody said something different

What about Doflamingo? His bounty is higher than Moria's. And we know nothing about Jimbei to make an assumption… yet.

what is moria's bounty?? wasn't it 370 mil??

The only Vice Admirals we've seen fight are Garp and Saul, and Saul was chucking around massive BC battleships and Garp was a human cannon. We haven't seen any of the other ones fight, so we have no gauge of their strength.

saul may have been a VA but no admirals existed then

Wrong. Mihawk is a better swordsman. He's not stronger than Shanks. In fact, it's unknown who is stronger. If anything, Shanks is more resourceful, considering he has lived the latter years of his life with a handicap and experienced no loss in power or ability.

shanks is a swordsman and mihawk is the no1 SM

I think that Shanks, Mihawk, Whitebeard, and Kuzan are the most powerful men currently in One Piece. Though we have 2 Shichibukai, 2 Yonkou, an Admiral, and Sakazuki's power to be revealed, these are the men we KNOW hold the most strength in the world.

well sengoku may be stronger than aokiji since he is above him

also read this:
http://www.mangascreener.com/stephen/onepiece/chapter319.txt

usopp said that aokiji is the strongest of the marines when he simply didn't know who it was 10 minutes ago

that was not specific for aokiji but for the admirals so we have no proof that aokiji is the strongest admiral or marine

[Aldrich]

@Pants-eater:

I think the entire post demands a Doubleyou Tee Eff.

I just skimmed through the rest until I stumbled across "VA", I'd be interested to know what kind of reasoning brought the brilliant forward thinker that is the OP to the conclusion they now look weaker than CP9.

[fixius]

@Aldrich:

I just skimmed through the rest until I stumbled across "VA", I'd be interested to know what kind of reasoning brought the brilliant forward thinker that is the OP to the conclusion they now look weaker than CP9.

your answer is :

I just skimmed through the rest until I stumbled across "VA"

read it all

[mujushin]

But we can add Gurp, Luffy said to everyone not to atack him, if they do they will be killed? :p

And bounty does not show HOW strong they really are, jsut ow much damage they have caused.

And Cp9 can´t possibly defeat Enel, rihgt? He is the one who has the invincible logia, the thunder power.
And Luffy had rubber, which aint affected. What can people with animalpower or door power do to that man?

[ONEinchPUNCH]

These bounties all mean jack, they're all frozen. If the government knew what doflamingo was trying to do they'd probably give him 1 billion.

So far all we know is Whitebeard is the best and shanks has exchanged a blow with him. We know mihawk is rival to shanks and we know Blackbeard scratched shanks years ago.

Now if blackbeard could stand toe to toe with whitebeard he already would have, so I think shanks is stronger than blackbeard at the moment. Mihawk rivals shanks so he is joint second with shanks (the winner depending on your interpretation of BEST SWORDSMAN IN THE WORLD)

After those four the rest of the positions are up for grabs, doflamingo's ability remains an anomaly

[Aldrich]

@fixius:

your answer is :
read it all

So Vice Admirals now look weaker than CP9 cause Luffy is going to fight against Gecko Moria.

IT MAKES PREFCET SINSE

[mujushin]

Oh, maybe I need to explain that CP9 are assassinators in the duty of government and Spandam was the director for that unit and highest commander at Enies Lobby.

Whilst he was given autority by Aokji/Kuzan to use his power from the Golden denden mushi. Which shows he has a lower rank than admirals and possibly lower than vide admirals.

So CP9 aint stronger than marines like Garp. But they ARE rokushiki MASTERS, not only rokushiki users or practioners like Coby who are in training udner Garps direct command at the HQ.

[fixius]

@ONEinchPUNCH:

These bounties all mean jack, they're all frozen. If the government knew what doflamingo was trying to do they'd probably give him 1 billion.

So far all we know is Whitebeard is the best and shanks has exchanged a blow with him. We know mihawk is rival to shanks and we know Blackbeard scratched shanks years ago.

Now if blackbeard could stand toe to toe with whitebeard he already would have, so I think shanks is stronger than blackbeard at the moment. Mihawk rivals shanks so he is joint second with shanks (the winner depending on your interpretation of BEST SWORDSMAN IN THE WORLD)

After those four the rest of the positions are up for grabs, doflamingo's ability remains an anomaly

it is true their bounties are frozen but if luffy defeats moria then isn't his bounty worthy of him?? isn't he stronger than a schichibukai?? and the fact that his bounty is frozen is even worse if luffy beats moria

when luffy clashed with lucci the room was messed up,they were simple hits but when WB and shanks clashed the sky split,those were also simple hits,so if luffy is stronger than a schichibukai then aren't a select phew of the 3 forces light years ahead of others in the same organization??? that is the first question

even BB who could beat ace fairly easy could only harm a logia with his DF so OiP,do you think there is a way to harm logia without sea stone or DF?? and if such techniques exist then are the people capable of doing so only those that lead the 3 powers??

@mujushin:

Oh, maybe I need to explain that CP9 are assassinators in the duty of government and Spandam was the director for that unit and highest commander at Enies Lobby.

Whilst he was given autority by Aokji/Kuzan to use his power from the Golden denden mushi. Which shows he has a lower rank than admirals and possibly lower than vide admirals.

So CP9 aint stronger than marines like Garp. But they ARE rokushiki MASTERS, not only rokushiki users or practioners like Coby who are in training udner Garps direct command at the HQ.

that is true but a rokishiki user with a cp9 might be different due to douriki also i am not speaking for all VA but for most or a big percentage of them

[Gerikhabarovsk]

These bounties all mean jack, they're all frozen. If the government knew what doflamingo was trying to do they'd probably give him 1 billion*.

Man.. these frozen bounties only matter for the Marine and Bounty Hunter, so they didn't bother Bukai member..
I personally think frozen bounty doesn't matter for their[Bukai] own sake, and doesn't change everything much.. Theirs bounty belong used to be..

*Too bold..
**Oda statement of Croc's worth bounty in SBS was the way he blur Croc's wide gap with other Bukai..

[mujushin]

Hmm, yeah, CP9 have high douriki :p BUt I guess Garps douriki is higher than Lucci´s :p

Hell, just waih and Coby´s will be shitty high and also Helmeppo who uses my favorit weapons :D

[fixius]

@Gerikhabarovsk:

Man.. these frozen bounties only matter for the Marine and Bounty Hunter, so they didn't bother Bukai member..
I personally think frozen bounty doesn't matter for their[Bukai] own sake, and doesn't change everything much.. Theirs bounty belong used to be..

*Too bold..
**Oda statement of Croc's worth bounty in SBS was the way he blur Croc's wide gap with other Bukai..

so except of enel,croc has been given a fair bounty?? what was it??

[FireFistAce 0]

@fixius:

when BB was introduced from laffite as a next schichibukai he was said that they needed to see something of him and BB was positive that with defeating a man worth more than or 100mil he could achieve his first goal

That's an entry level Shichibukai. And Blackbeard had no clue how to gauge them.

saul may have been a VA but no admirals existed then

Uh, Admiral Sengoku? And you don't know if other admirals existed or not. The current admirals were Vice Admirals back then, so the Admirals at the time were either moved elsewhere or retired.

shanks is a swordsman and mihawk is the no1 SM

Re-read what I said… I said that Mihawk is a better swordsman. That makes him a better swordsman. Okay. That doesn't make him stronger.

well sengoku may be stronger than aokiji since he is above him

Spandam was above Lucci, does that mean that Spandam was the ultimate super warrior? By that logic, it does.

also read this:
http://www.mangascreener.com/stephen/onepiece/chapter319.txt

usopp said that aokiji is the strongest of the marines when he simply didn't know who it was 10 minutes ago

that was not specific for aokiji but for the admirals so we have no proof that aokiji is the strongest admiral or marine

This is true. Robin stated that he is one of the only three current admirals, but not his strength related to the other two. Kizaru and Sakazuki's strength remains to be seen.

[ONEinchPUNCH]

@fixius:

it is true their bounties are frozen but if luffy defeats moria then isn't his bounty worthy of him?? isn't he stronger than a schichibukai?? and the fact that his bountyis frozen is even worse if luffy beats moria

Luffy is definitely worthy of his bounty all I'm saying is if the shichibukai never became shichibukai, they're bounties would have never frozen. They could have reached 1 billion especially doflamingo trying to create a new era, the WG just doesn't know.

when luffy clashed with lucci the room was messed up,they were simple hits but when WB and shanks clashed thesky split,those were also simple hits,so if luffy is stronger than a schichibukai then aren't a select phew of the 3 forces light years ahead of others in the same organization??? that is the first question

I don't really rate lucci as very strong enemy, he's good but he was defeated by luffy who is scared of a weakened garp,. Who is weaker than aokiji now, if according to aokijis title.

Also I wouldn't say wb mihawk shanks are lightyears ahead of everyone but it's certainly enough to make them win in a one on one.

even BB who could ace beat fairly easy could only harm a logia with his DF so OiP,do you think there is a way to harm logia without sea stone or DF?? and if such techniques exist then are the people capable of doing so only those that lead the 3 powers??

Whitebeard and shanks have already cut the sky which cannot be cut, Mihawk is rival to shanks so he can do it too. Then there's luffys words to enel about there being crazier guys on the blue sea. There is also the fact whitebeard can beat anyone so he can't lose to a logia, this shows there has to be a special attack.

[Pants-eater]

i am aiming for answers from people that can see 2 chapters ahead

Uhh, yeah… Good luck with that.

[fixius]

@mujushin:

Hmm, yeah, CP9 have high douriki :p BUt I guess Garps douriki is higher than Lucci´s :p

Hell, just waih and Coby´s will be shitty high and also Helmeppo who uses my favorit weapons :D

it is easy to see garp is much stronger than lucci,but garp is a legendary marine,coby and helmeppo were beaten too easy by luffy and zoro while the cp9 forced them to create new ways to fight so they can beat them

i agree that the VA are strong but if 500 VA exist then a schichibukai (marine HQ=schichibukai) isn't much stronger than a VA?

and since luffy beat croc and may beat moria isn't lucci also stronger than a VA??

all these are speculation so again people take it easy

[Gerikhabarovsk]

So CP9 aint stronger than marines like Garp. But they ARE rokushiki MASTERS, not only rokushiki users or practioners like Coby who are in training udner Garps direct command at the HQ.

Yes! Like: VA= main force, muscle powerhouse, frontliners, ARMY–- CP9= BackDesk, backstabber, SPY--- ARMY>>>SPY

so except of enel,croc has been given a fair bounty?? what was it??

Yes.. In Enel case,It's conditional statement from Oda-sensei! not real fact. Enel never go down to the Blue..

Spandam was above Lucci, does that mean that Spandam was the ultimate super warrior? By that logic, it does.

It's in spying/WG rules. But, not with muscular striker main force/Marine Rules.. As far we see in Marine, the higher someone, themore powerful he get..

[fixius]

@Fire Fist:

That's an entry level Shichibukai.

so you are admitting that the schichibukai differ levels??

Uh, Admiral Sengoku? And you don't know if other admirals existed or not. The current admirals were Vice Admirals back then, so the Admirals at the time were either moved elsewhere or retired.

hmmm,sengoku was an admiral??? i thought he was a VA,if he was then i accept you got me on this

Re-read what I said… I said that Mihawk is a better swordsman. That makes him a better swordsman. Okay. That doesn't make him stronger.

i think it does and it is the easy think to assume,if shanks has another style,that i don't think he does,and the sword is he secondary weapon then he may be stronger or equal but the way things are now the safest think to assume is that he is weaker

Spandam was above Lucci, does that mean that Spandam was the ultimate super warrior? By that logic, it does.

who said that??? i said he might

This is true. Robin stated that he is one of the only three current admirals, but not his strength related to the other two. Kizaru and Sakazuki's strength remains to be seen.

indeed

[mujushin]

The CP squads belongs to the marine and Aokji was the person above Spandam - Spandam had been granted the golden denden mushi by Aokji..
And the ordinary marines has to obey Spandam.

[Gerikhabarovsk]

The CP squads belongs to the marine and Aokji was the person above Spandam - Spandam had been granted the golden denden mushi by Aokji..
And the ordinary marines has to obey Spandam.

CP9 Belong to the WG..
the rest is right..

[fixius]

@ONEinchPUNCH:

Luffy is definitely worthy of his bounty all I'm saying is if the shichibukai never became shichibukai, they're bounties would have never frozen. They could have reached 1 billion especially doflamingo trying to create a new era, the WG just doesn't know.

maybe,maybe not

I don't really rate lucci as very strong enemy, he's good but he was defeated by luffy who is scared of a weakened garp,. Who is weaker than aokiji now, if according to aokijis title.

nobody said he is a monster but if luffy beats moria with no power ups or gear 4 then isn't lucci close to moria?? also garp saying his arm isn't as strong as before may have been an excuse to let luffy escape,remember he was smilling when luffy escaped

Also I wouldn't say wb mihawk shanks are lightyears ahead of everyone but it's certainly enough to make them win in a one on one.

again if luffy beats moria then he will have defeated 2 schichibukai,right?

do you think luffy vs zoro could even split one cloud apart??? i don't,so if zoro and luffy already are stronger than some schichibukai or they will become soon,then their final goals (WB,mihawk etc) aren't way stronger than schichibukai like moria??? and kuma along with doflamingo have lower bounties than moria,i am not saying he is stronger,i am saying how things are and what i foresee

Whitebeard and shanks have already cut the sky which cannot be cut, Mihawk is rival to shanks so he can do it too. Then there's luffys words to enel about there being crazier guys on the blue sea. There is also the fact whitebeard can beat anyone so he can't lose to a logia, this shows there has to be a special attack.

demon ki and diamble jamb are "states" that are unique and not caused by DF,some people may have also a ki like zoro's liek shanks has been shown to have so mihawk has too and some people may have sanji's upgrade in a much evolved state so even these upgrades in their involved state may be the answer to harming a logia with no DF or sea stone

[ONEinchPUNCH]

@fixius:

maybe,maybe not

Oh yeah definitely, I'm only speculating.

nobody said he is a monster but if luffy beats moria with no power ups or gear 4 then isn't lucci close to moria??

Don't forget the strawhats get stronger extremely fast, remember from not being able to see blueno he ends up fighting toe to toe without gears.

So I don't think lucci will be near moria, luffy will have gotten mysteriously stronger within 10 episodes.

again if luffy beats moria then he will have defeated 2 schichibukai,right?

If he beats moria easily, I'd say wb mihawk and shanks must be lightyears ahead. Otherwise he'll be on their level half way through the series, which won't work

do you think luffy vs zoro could even split one cloud apart??? i don't,so if zoro and luffy already are stronger than some schichibukai or they will become soon,then their final goals (WB,mihawk etc) aren't way stronger than schichibukai like moria???

When you put it that way I have to agree

I think luffy and zoro can destroy the physical items close to them (eg buildings and the ground) but for there attacks to reach out and cut the sky or move a cloud. They've got a long way to go

and kuma along with doflamingo have lower bounties than moria,i am not saying he is stronger,i am saying how things are and what i foresee

Not sure about kuma but the way doflamingo has been introduced and shown messing with sengoku. I think he is stronger than his bounty suggests.

demon ki and diamble jamb are "states" that are unique and not caused by DF,

I don't agree with diablo jambe being a proper state since he gets no new attacks, his leg is just really hot. Gears and demon ki all have new technique and move unique to that state.

some people may have also a ki like zoro's liek shanks has been shown to have so mihawk has too and some people may have sanji's upgrade in a much evolved state so even these upgrades in their involved state may be the answer to harming a logia with no DF or sea stone

I agree shanks will have some devasting ki attacks if just by walking it K.Os whitebeard s crew.

[fixius]

@ONEinchPUNCH:

Oh yeah definitely, I'm only speculating.

i think i enjoy talking in a civilised tone with someone that can adjust ideas and edit his opinions on some matters and already knows well what he reads ,
block heads that post only to flame and treat their speculation as fact are irritating to the bone:getlost:

Don't forget the strawhats get stronger extremely fast, remember from not being able to see blueno he ends up fighting toe to toe without gears.

So I don't think lucci will be near moria, luffy will have gotten mysteriously stronger within 10 episodes.

indeed that is true and it has made me thinking how close is coby with the cp9:wassat:

When you put it that way I have to agree

i knew you'd understand

I think luffy and zoro can destroy the physical items close to them (eg buildings and the ground) but for there attacks to reach out and cut the sky or move a cloud. They've got a long way to go

i agree

Not sure about kuma but the way doflamingo has been introduced and shown messing with sengoku. I think he is stronger than his bounty suggests.

hmmm,doflamingo was introduced from oda like someone who will make a ruckous in the future so i have to say i agree and kuma may also be extremely strong

I don't agree with diablo jambe being a proper state since he gets no new attacks, his leg is just really hot. Gears and demon ki all have new technique and move unique to that state.

sanji might be able to controll other elements too,so he could hit a logia with their weakness while zoro will propably cut through the elements

[fixius]

This post is deleted!

[Kma]

Well according to Oda, If Croc's bounty wasnt frozen it would be at least double so ~ 160 million.

If that applies to the other Schichibukai (which might be less or more for some ) then its hard to gauge their powers from bounties. Bounties are a measurement yes but they are more of a ballpark then a distinct value.

Also about the CP9 and VA. I think Rob Lucci was the only one that was up to VA status. For instance one VA believed in him, talked about his past and thought he would be enough. However another VA didnt give shit about him and ordered the ship where he was fighting on to be blasted.

What Im trying to say is the range of VA, Schichibukai, and Yonkou is very large. For INSTANCE, a weak VA could be beaten by Luffy but that same Luffy would quiver from Garp. Eg in boxing, say your a heavyweight, theres a huge difference in the opponents you fight. Everyone knows this so we should easily expect the same thing here.

O also just a little side note. Dorry and Broggys clash I think knocked down some trees and created a massive shockwave. Not nearly up to WB and Shanks level but still impressive. Also I think when Luffy and Zoro clashed at Whiskey Peak there was a shockwave too. Still light years before them though but we know they're heading the right direction : )

EDIT: Uh also isnt it too early to be talking about Moria's bounty here? BTW that bounty was most likely fake you know.

[fixius]

these are the original thread questions:
also remember what usopp said when aokiji showed up:

"Usopp: Then why is he HERE?!!
…he should be going after the big pirates worth billions!!!
G... GO AWAY!!"

so the question is where everyone from one piece stands in terms of power??
what do you think?? and who are the ones that are strong enough to fight a logia head on without a DF or sea stone??? even BB couldn't fight a logia without his DF,do you think aokiji can harm a logia even though he is one??? and do you think indeed only a few members of the 3 powers are light years ahead of the SHs?? and the pirates within these people could indeed worth billions??

so what do you people think about aokiji vs other logia or pirates worth billion or harming logia techniques without a DF or sea stone??

[Kma]

I posted this in another thread but it concerns the Logia being harmed so..

@Kma:

This isnt really a theory, but I was watching the anime again and I thought this was cool

around 1:38

I'll post what Zoro says though…

"Water. Light. Fire. The elements that destroy. Even things without substance can be… cut!"

Its part of his training in Skypia.

HOWEVER I went back to my manga collection and this line (NOT the training or the actual move he does) seems to be added in by the animators.

Which makes me question do you think this is credible proof that the "Breath of all things" applies to the elements?

Its always assumed that Mihawk can cut the elements but I dont think there has been any direct proof right? I didnt want to start a new thread so i decided to post this here. Well what do you guys think of this?

Even so how many Logias do you think there are left? I can think of only Aoi Koji and BB and even so BB can be harmed by physical attacks. Still I dont think using a seastone at all is cheap, it can be part of your arsenal, just like how a sniper has a gun or a ability user has a DF.

Still though it seems like Ace didnt know how to harm a Logia. (Smoker and even in the fight with BB he thought his attack would just go through him). If WB knew how do you think he would have told him? maybe its like one of those things were the teacher is like you have to find out on your own…

The only ones that I think that can harm a Logia w/o seastone right now are WB, Shanks, Mihawk, Sengoku, and maybe the other Yonkou, Schichibukai and Admiral. Other people MIGHT know how but cant because they arent strong enough. Uh just in case since people like to pick out lines and critisize right away, IM SPECULATING!!!

[fixius]

@Kma:

I posted this in another thread but it concerns the Logia being harmed so..

Even so how many Logias do you think there are left? I can think of only Aoi Koji and BB and even so BB can be harmed by physical attacks. Still I dont think using a seastone at all is cheap, it can be part of your arsenal, just like how a sniper has a gun or a ability user has a DF.

Still though it seems like Ace didnt know how to harm a Logia. (Smoker and even in the fight with BB he thought his attack would just go through him). If WB knew how do you think he would have told him? maybe its like one of those things were the teacher is like you have to find out on your own…

The only ones that I think that can harm a Logia w/o seastone right now are WB, Shanks, Mihawk, Sengoku, and maybe the other Yonkou, Schichibukai and Admiral. Other people MIGHT know how but cant because they arent strong enough. Uh just in case since people like to pick out lines and critisize right away, IM SPECULATING!!!

i am thinking something like this,as for the fillers smoker also said that a man appeared and vanished also in roger's execution that went to dragon but if those were true then why didn't oda mention any of this in a SBS or a databook?

or oda has prepared a long time script that kinda shows the animators how one piece will progress so they will know what to avoid at fillers but on the other hand zoro cutting steel chains in a filler arc before alabasta disgraces the fillers

[SuperStar]

@Kma:

Still I dont think using a seastone at all is cheap, it can be part of your arsenal, just like how a sniper has a gun or a ability user has a DF!

Agreed, Seastone is a weapon and can be used like one. I wouldn't call Batman cheap for using Kryptonite on Superman.

[fixius]

@SuperStar:

Agreed, Seastone is a weapon and can be used like one. I wouldn't call Batman cheap for using Kryptonite on Superman.

well yes but the sea stone should be used with some limits,this isn't naruto where everything counts

i wouldn't want zoro with sea stone swords but i would see no problem with usopp having sea stone bullets

[SuperStar]

What's the problem with having Seastone? If you have it, use it.

[Angel emfrbl]

@fixius:

i am thinking something like this,as for the fillers smoker also said that a man appeared and vanished also in roger's execution that went to dragon but if those were true then why didn't oda mention any of this in a SBS or a databook?

or oda has prepared a long time script that kinda shows the animators how one piece will progress so they will know what to avoid at fillers but on the other hand zoro cutting steel chains in a filler arc before alabasta disgraces the fillers

I know a few things…

Oda apparently is the only one who knows the secret behind the naming of "One Piece". Whether he has spoken since... Who knows... And he has the ending planned out according to one source. And the people behind the anime always check up on things like his plans for DFs when they create their own

And Oda designs bad guys for movies and such like. .

[fixius]

@Angel:

I know a few things…

Oda apparently is the only one who knows the secret behind the naming of "One Piece". Whether he has spoken since... Who knows... And he has the ending planned out according to one source. And the people behind the anime always check up on things like his plans for DFs when they create their own

And Oda designs bad guys for movies and such like. .

that sure is a good info

@SuperStar:

What's the problem with having Seastone? If you have it, use it.

i agree but it is not for zoro or mihawk

[Kma]

about the anime and manga too

you know in G8 when that old guy was going to talk about Merry, where was the manga at that point? did they reach the part where Franky talks about Klaubertan yet?
Also having them in G8 calling Jonathan the protege of Akainu seems risky

What I mean is do you think Oda lets them forshadow or the animators just make stuff up?

[fixius]

@Kma:

about the anime and manga too

you know in G8 when that old guy was going to talk about Merry, where was the manga at that point? did they reach the part where Franky talks about Klaubertan yet?
Also having them in G8 calling Jonathan the protege of Akainu seems risky

What I mean is do you think Oda lets them forshadow or the animators just make stuff up?

i think oda contacts them but it is a bit offtopic

[Impel Down]

I doubt that Luffy's bounty will get raised for this, since NO ONE KNOWS HE'S THERE.

[boiga]

Okay, the original post bases far too much on two unproven assumptions: -That bounty is a measurement of fighting ability.
-That Rank in the World Government is a measurement of fighting ability.

Neither of these statements has been proven in the Manga.

Bounty-
Bounty as stated by the WG is a measurement of THREAT to the WG, and is not directly related to physical prowess or fighting abilities.

For example, who would have a higher bounty: a weakling serial killer or a element cutting swordsman who got caught jaywalking? The weakling serial killer of course would have the higher bounty because his crime is greater and his freedom puts the lives of innocents at risk. So, bounty is a measurement of the crime committed plus the potential of the individual to commit more crime.

Even in the one piece world, the unibomber would have a gigantic bounty. This does not mean the unibomber could beat even the bandit at the start of the series in a one on one fight.

Also, the WG only increases a bounty if they: A. know who committed the crime and B. that person is not a shichibukai yet. Any increases in strength or horrendous crimes committed while a bukai or not noticed by the WG do not add to bounty. This further decreases the utility of bounty to measure… well anything really.

Rank-
I do not understand the reasoning why one would assume that the WG would make all promotions based off of physical strength. Do you really think that Nezumi, the little rat CAPTAIN from the arlong arc is stronger than Koby, who is only a Chief Petty Officer?

Rank in the WG likely depends on experience, training, obedience, and perhaps most importantly, connections to higher ranking officers. We will likely see weakling vice admirals and amazingly powerful vice admirals before this series is through. Power isn't everything.

Rock Paper Scissors:
This is the other problem with this kind of thread. The powers in the One Piece world are balanced to give great advantages against some kinds of abilities and be horribly weak against others. There it no static measure of "power" in One Piece like there is in Dragon Ball, for example.

Summary:

To the point, if Luffy defeats Moria, it does not mean that luffy could defeat all of Moria's former enemies.

This is just like how luffy, by defeating Moria, does not gain the status from all of Moria's former crimes.

Nor does defeating Aokiji mean that luffy would become a Admiral if he joined the Marines.

The One Piece world is not as simple as you would like to believe.

[fixius]

@boiga:

Okay, the original post bases far too much on two unproven assumptions: -That bounty is a measurement of fighting ability.
-That Rank in the World Government is a measurement of fighting ability.

Neither of these statements has been proven in the Manga.

Bounty-
Bounty as stated by the WG is a measurement of THREAT to the WG, and is not directly related to physical prowess or fighting abilities.

For example, who would have a higher bounty: a weakling serial killer or a element cutting swordsman who got caught jaywalking? The weakling serial killer of course would have the higher bounty because his crime is greater and his freedom puts the lives of innocents at risk. So, bounty is a measurement of the crime committed plus the potential of the individual to commit more crime.

Even in the one piece world, the unibomber would have a gigantic bounty. This does not mean the unibomber could beat even the bandit at the start of the series in a one on one fight.

Also, the WG only increases a bounty if they: A. know who committed the crime and B. that person is not a shichibukai yet. Any increases in strength or horrendous crimes committed while a bukai or not noticed by the WG do not add to bounty. This further decreases the utility of bounty to measure… well anything really.

Rank-
I do not understand the reasoning why one would assume that the WG would make all promotions based off of physical strength. Do you really think that Nezumi, the little rat CAPTAIN from the arlong arc is stronger than Koby, who is only a Chief Petty Officer?

Rank in the WG likely depends on experience, training, obedience, and perhaps most importantly, connections to higher ranking officers. We will likely see weakling vice admirals and amazingly powerful vice admirals before this series is through. Power isn't everything.

Rock Paper Scissors:
This is the other problem with this kind of thread. The powers in the One Piece world are balanced to give great advantages against some kinds of abilities and be horribly weak against others. There it no static measure of "power" in One Piece like there is in Dragon Ball, for example.

Summary:

To the point, if Luffy defeats Moria, it does not mean that luffy could defeat all of Moria's former enemies.

This is just like how luffy, by defeating Moria, does not gain the status from all of Moria's former crimes.

Nor does defeating Aokiji mean that luffy would become a Admiral if he joined the Marines.

The One Piece world is not as simple as you would like to believe.

if this post is an answer to the thread question i have to say except of what indeed is stated in the manga i did not assume neither half that you say i did and i do not agree to anything :ninja: sorry

[Impel Down]

It's not like people can look at Luffy's bounty poster and be go:

[SuperStar]

@boiga:

To the point, if Luffy defeats Moria, it does not mean that luffy could defeat all of Moria's former enemies.

Agreed, Not just Moria's former enemies, there might be alot of characters that can kick Luffy's rectum but he would never face them.