General Sonic the Hedgehog Thread (Now With Movie 3 & Knuckles)

Smudger

I can't really compare sonic against mario as both were flawless on each console.

(Gameboy had Mario 1&2/Megadrive had sonic 1&2)

JERK DISEASE

Mario was better.
Easily.

Smudger

@JERK:

Mario was better.
Easily.

In what way?
(apart from the addictive aspect)

Mario 1&2 on the gameboy was bangin', the only downside was the lack of a save function.

Robby

Even without the last decade of tainted bad 3-D games. Mario was always better. Each game brought more diversity and variety to it in terms of what Mario could do, and the worlds were bigger too. Mario 1 had 32 levels, and Mario 3 and World had close to a hundred each, Sonic tended to top out at what, 20?

Most of Sonic's stages, regardless of visual theme they possessed, were largely the same, while Mario had completely different dynamics underwater, or in giant world, or in enforced flying areas. (And even Mario 2, which wasn't really a Mario game, was lengthy and a completely different experience)

Nice as it was for Sonic to eventually get a bubble or electric shield, it was no Tanooki suit or Yoshi.

Also. Dr. Mario and Yoshi's Cookie are better than Dr. Robotnick's Mean Bean Machine, but I realize in those cases the mascots were just sort of slapped on.

Mario games are consistently system sellers, (well, that role has slid more to pokemon in recent years, but…) the very peak of what a system's hardware can do, often flat out packages with the unit, because no one would want to buy the system without getting the game. Sonic... didn't have a single new game on the Saturn.

I can't really speak for the 3-D Mario outings, as I went for the Sega, then Sony machines post SNES, but by most reports, the Mario games were pretty good in 3-D. Whereas Sonic... has resorted to bribing with digital kittens.

Smudger

The issue isn't with mario, but the limited console it was on. That is why I put them on par with each other. Though I will say that mario 2 had some awesome bosses, amongst other things.

I haven't played the mario game you mentioned robby, but it would have to be awesome to beat mean bean machine.

RMBM seemed initially quite shit, but if you put the hours in you'll soon master the block combos that made it legendary.

! 1yh8kgmFNs0
fastforward to 1:40

Darkstorm

@SMUDGER:

I can't really compare sonic against mario as both were flawless on each console.

(Gameboy had Mario 1&2/Megadrive had sonic 1&2)

@SMUDGER:

The issue isn't with mario, but the limited console it was on. That is why I put them on par with each other. Though I will say that mario 2 had some awesome bosses, amongst other things.

I haven't played the mario game you mentioned robby, but it would have to be awesome to beat mean bean machine.

RMBM seemed initially quite shit, but if you put the hours in you'll soon master the block combos that made it legendary.

! 1yh8kgmFNs0
fastforward to 1:40

Why are you comparing Mega Drive sonic games against Gameboy mario games anyway.

Super Mario World & Yoshi's Island on the SNES were fantastic.

Or even Super Mario Bros 3 on the NES(which is probably longer then sonic 1,2,3,& knuckles combined if you play through all the levels).

JERK DISEASE

@SMUDGER:

In what way?
(apart from the addictive aspect)

Mario 1&2 on the gameboy was bangin', the only downside was the lack of a save function.

So do you have no idea the NES and SNES exist or what the fuck.

Smudger

@JERK:

So do you have no idea the NES and SNES exist or what the fuck.

Yeah, I just didn't own anything on them that could have been used as a fair comparison.
(only mariocart which is racing opposed to the action/adventure games mentioned above )

Sadly my snes got broken before I could get a decent collection of games.

Darkstorm

Basically Super Mario Bros & Super Mario Bros 3(nes) are legendary games, and along With World & Yoshi's Island(snes) are a peerless series better then sonic pretty much at every point.

If you have a wii, buy all stars when it comes out in december to play the nes ones.

Kitsune Inferno

If IGN gave it an 8.0, this might be a good thing.

I mean they gave Unleashed a 5 or so. And that one was probably a 7 in my book. :\

IGN's always been known for hating Sonic, so my hopes are up now.

SGRaaize

This post is deleted!

Darkstorm

@Kitsune:

If IGN gave it an 8.0, this might be a good thing.

I mean they gave Unleashed a 5 or so. And that one was probably a 7 in my book. :\

IGN's always been known for hating Sonic, so my hopes are up now.

http://uk.ds.ign.com/articles/666/666139p1.html

Buccaneer

I think IGN is about as trustworthy as any site when it comes to reviews. At least I don't strongly disagree with them too often. Different people, different tastes, etc.

To be honest all the constant comparisons come off as fanboy insecurity. I could get into a thread about the original Mario and talk about how Metal Gear Solid is a more satisfying game, but what would be the point?

@RobbyBevard:

Even without the last decade of tainted bad 3-D games. Mario was always better. Each game brought more diversity and variety to it in terms of what Mario could do, and the worlds were bigger too. Mario 1 had 32 levels, and Mario 3 and World had close to a hundred each, Sonic tended to top out at what, 20?

That's where replayability comes in. Ever try besting your time in the Labyrinth levels?

Most of Sonic's stages, regardless of visual theme they possessed, were largely the same, while Mario had completely different dynamics underwater, or in giant world, or in enforced flying areas. (And even Mario 2, which wasn't really a Mario game, was lengthy and a completely different experience)

Nice as it was for Sonic to eventually get a bubble or electric shield, it was no Tanooki suit or Yoshi.

There was less variation, but I'm personally glad they didn't try goofy gimmicks just because the other guys did.

Mario games are consistently system sellers, (well, that role has slid more to pokemon in recent years, but…) the very peak of what a system's hardware can do, often flat out packages with the unit, because no one would want to buy the system without getting the game. Sonic... didn't have a single new game on the Saturn.

Making the best game for Saturn is like being the best basketball player in Iceland. I wouldn't blame Sonic Team much for the half hearted crap they did after 3D Blast.

Retsudo

So how bad were Heroes and 06.

I skipped those.

KzTxL7

Heroes was better than a lot of stuff that came after.

Still was below average to crap.

y2kyle89

Sonic 2006's badness has been well documented here.

Buccaneer

I bought Heroes for dirt cheap years after it came out….but I never got around to trying it. And I don't think I ever will.

Cyan D. Funk

@Retsudo:

So how bad were Heroes and 06.

I skipped those.

Heroes is actually fairly average (It's pretty playable, but it's no Sonic 3).

06 is, in retrospect, generally where any hope of Sonic's salvation died.

Green_vs_Red

^Apparently Sega was working with the same mindset with Sonic 06 that Atari was using when they were working on E.T.

Cyan D. Funk

@Green_vs_Red:

^Apparently Sega was working with the same mindset with Sonic 06 that Atari was using when they were working on E.T.

Rush it out and make a shitload more copies than necessary?

Nobodyman

@RobbyBevard:

Also. Dr. Mario and Yoshi's Cookie are better than Dr. Robotnick's Mean Bean Machine, but I realize in those cases the mascots were just sort of slapped on.

Fun fact: Mean Bean Machine and Kirby's Avalanche are the exact same game. No really, even the little blob sprites are absolutely identical. Check it out.

! F8dS_L5DNtE
! LXZOhxndhT4
However, MBM did come out before Avalanche, so you can't really accuse Sega of copyright infringement.

On the subject of Mario vs. Sonic, yeah, Mario was always better. Sonic 2, 3 and Knuckles, as good as they were, really were just rehashes of the first game. I mean, Sonic 2 had…

-More levels
-New music
-A two-tailed fox thing that set things that off that you didn't want to

Sonic 3 had:

-Less levels
-Music by Michael Jackson
-A big red thing that dicked around with Sonic

Also, I'd like to offer this.

http://aryion.com/g3/showitem.php?id=193063

Green_vs_Red

This post is deleted!

Green_vs_Red

@Cyan:

Rush it out and make a shitload more copies than necessary?

Would've been good for the lulz if they had did the second part.

JERK DISEASE

Sonic 3 & Knuckles is a masterpiece for real tho.

Best Sonic game.

Nobodyman

@JERK:

Sonic 3 & Knuckles is a masterpiece for real tho.

Best Sonic game.

Could've done without them having to divide it into two games though.

Buccaneer

@Nobodyman:

On the subject of Mario vs. Sonic, yeah, Mario was always better. Sonic 2, 3 and Knuckles, as good as they were, really were just rehashes of the first game.

Aside from Mario, pretty much all series with sequels on the same console did that. Street Fighter II, Megaman, DKC, Pokemon, Ninja Gaiden, Final Fantasy, Zelda… you name it. Mario in part pulled it off because they took a completely unrelated game and stuck Mario in it.

Awesome video, btw

Nobodyman

@Buccaneer:

Aside from Mario, pretty much all series with sequels on the same console did that. Street Fighter II, Megaman, DKC, Pokemon, Ninja Gaiden, Final Fantasy, Zelda… you name it. Mario in part pulled it off because they took a completely unrelated game and stuck Mario in it.

True. But in my defense I am just talking about Mario (the mascot of Ninendo) and Sonic (the mascot of Sega). Also, you may notice, especially in the cases of DKC and Megaman, that the rehashing formula did get pretty old after a while (DKC had gotten old by the third game). Also, I would hardly list Zelda and FF as "rehashing."

RPGJay

3D Zeldas hasn't changed since OoT.

Last time I had fun with a Zelda game was with Wind Waker. That was awesome. Shame it got stolen from me.

JERK DISEASE

Rehashing is a dumb argument.

Nobodyman

@JERK:

Rehashing is a dumb argument.

Yes. Rehashing is a dumb argument.

Retsudo

Games aren't good unless they are the pinnacle of innovation.

Insider2000

@Retsudo:

Games aren't good unless they are the pinnacle of innovation.

What does that mean anymore?

Cause so far, the pinnacle of innovation seems to be a machine that's supposed to allow you to play video games without a controller, and it doesn't work very well.

Green_vs_Red

^ Kinect reference?

Insider2000

@Green_vs_Red:

^ Kinect reference?

You mean the biggest step in video game revolution?

Yes.

RuNa

@Nobodyman:

Fun fact: Mean Bean Machine and Kirby's Avalanche are the exact same game. No really, even the little blob sprites are absolutely identical. Check it out.

Alright…I hope I don't blow your mind with this revelations...

Both games are Puyo Puyo clones.

First game in the series (Puyo {Puyo):
SxvT-6Bfelk

A recent game (Puyo Puyo 7):
18XYGFLK-f0

Nobodyman

@Insider2000:

You mean the biggest step in video game revolution?

Yes.

As much as I love Nintendo, I hate them for starting that trend (or was it based off the eye toy?)

Anyway, my take is that there needs to be a good balance between innovation and, for lack of a better word, rehashing. Rehashing is fine for a little while, but if you want a franchise to last you'll have to innovate eventually. Of course, innovation, by its very nature, is incredibly risky and if you flub up it could really cost you. The good new, however, is that gamers are relatively forgiving (wow, I can't believe I just said that) and are willing to overlook one screw up so long as you fix it for the next game.

Sega, on the other hand, made a ton of horrible innovations for Sonic once it went 3D and has just been rehashing the same mistakes (and more) ever since.

@RuNA: 'Kay, so Nintendo and Sega both got Puyo Puyo on loan in the 90s. Never was really into puzzle games.

Insider2000

@Nobodyman:

As much as I love Nintendo, I hate them for starting that trend (or was it based off the eye toy?)

But you see, at least the Wii works. I thought it was strange too, but when I actually had it, it felt no different than any other controller.

Kitsune Inferno

Well, there's a "rumor" going around about Sonic's next game.

We’ve all known it was coming. Every 5 years, starting with Sonic Adventure 2, we’ve gotten an anniversary game. One is considered one of the best games in the series, the other one of the worst. SEGA has made it clear in the last year that they want to repair Sonic’s image, and bring back the elements that made his games fun. Whether they’ve succeeded or not is up for you to decide, but one things for sure, the nostalgia train isn’t ending with Sonic 4 and Sonic Colors. Enter: Sonic Anniversary.
Sonic Anniversary, which should be considered a tentative title for the time being, will be a compilation of Sonic’s best levels from across his career adapted to the current generation of consoles. These levels are said to be a mix of 3D and 2D, though Sonic Paradise was unable to confirm whether or not it would be done via interlevel switches ala Sonic Unleashed, or if the dimension would be relegated to whether the level was 2D or 3D originally. So it is unknown whether there will be any 3D areas in remade classic levels, or all new 2D areas in the remade 3D levels.
What Sonic Paradise could confirm, however, were the platforms: the game is currently slotted for Wii, DS, PS3,and even PSP this time around. The Xbox 360 version is “still under negotiations”, though considering that a next gen Sonic game hasn’t missed the Xbox platform yet, it’s probably a shoe in. This game is believed to be the “Sonic Anniversary” game originally revealed in the leaked Sony document over a year ago. It’s expected to come out at some point during 2011, in time for Sonic’s year long anniversary celebration.

http://www.sonicstadium.org/news/2010/10/new-mario-and-sonic-sonic-20th-anniversary-game-confirmed/

It can go both ways. It'll either be a glorious retrospect of Sonic at his finest, or a train wreck of mismatched ideas and convoluted nostalgia.

I'd be leaning toward the latter if Sonic 4 and Colors didn't make me want to believe.

Also, of less importance, they claim that there's another M&S game on the way.

Darkstorm

Not really confident they can do that when they don't seem to have anyone who understands why the original games were fun.

Nobodyman

@Insider2000:

But you see, at least the Wii works. I thought it was strange too, but when I actually had it, it felt no different than any other controller.

For the most part, yes, it does work. However, I really don't want it to become mainstream. The way the Wii is set up makes it so games pretty much have to have motion control, which is part of the reason the Wii has been doing so lousy. Not all games are meant for motion control and all three alternative options (holding the remote sideways, attaching the classic controller, and keeping your gamecube controller) are kind of a pain the butt.

Oh yeah, the anniversary announcement. Sounds like another desperate ploy.

Toastboy

@RPGJay:

3D Zeldas hasn't changed since OoT.

Except the only reason why Twilight Princess was OoT 2, was because fans were crying for it after the two predecessors were so different.

Smudger

I owned a knuckles game that allowed you to slot in various other sonic games. I can't remember what the benefit was though…

I think you just got more characters.

Darkstorm

That was sonic & knuckles.

Slot in sonic 2 to play as knuckles.

Slot in sonic 3 to play it as sega meant before they had to split the game in two.

Robby

I like that Smudge has apparently never played Mario 3 or 4, and has only a vauge idea of what Sonic and Knuckles did, but still wants to compare the two.

As for the anniversary game… so... It'd be Sonic Jam with Sonic CD finally attached? I can't imagine the 2-D level integrating at all with the 3-D stuff, unless they went psuedo-2.5D Nights style on it or something.

Toastboy

Something like that anniversary thing should be a Mario game sometime. They already did it partially with Galaxy 2 and it was pretty neat.
Sega couldn't even do proper PORTS in the last few years (and all that recycled stuff in Sonic 4 also looks awful), so I don't think they'll be able to make something like this enjoyable.

Buccaneer

Hey, I never played Mario 4, either. Didn't even know it existed.

Darkstorm

@RobbyBevard:

I like that Smudge has apparently never played Mario 3 or 4, and has only a vauge idea of what Sonic and Knuckles did, but still wants to compare the two.

As for the anniversary game… so... It'd be Sonic Jam with Sonic CD finally attached? I can't imagine the 2-D level integrating at all with the 3-D stuff, unless they went psuedo-2.5D Nights style on it or something.

I wouldn't get my hopes up.

Sega have never come close to making a compilation as good as Jam again.

@Buccaneer:

Hey, I never played Mario 4, either. Didn't even know it existed.

Smudger

@SMUDGER:

I can't really compare sonic against mario as both were flawless on each console.

(Gameboy had Mario 1&2/Megadrive had sonic 1&2)

@RobbyBevard:

I like that Smudge has apparently never played Mario 3 or 4, and has only a vauge idea of what Sonic and Knuckles did, but still wants to compare the two.

You also ignore the fact that this was almost 20 years ago for me. Plus you don't have to own every single game from both series to have an opinion on the subject…

Badass SnoCone

@thread title- well…..I do like kittens.

Kitsune Inferno

http://www.sonicstadium.org/news/2010/10/rumour-new-sonic-game-sequel-to-be-announced-october-22nd/

I wonder what this is.

Either Sonic 4 Episode 2 or something else.