I think Doffy is the more angst-inducing villain, but BB is the better antagonist with his character mirroring the one of our hero.
Also strenght-wise i see BB being or becoming the strongest individual ever lived in the world of OP. (until Luffy defeats him)
Also seeing what plan BB masterminded over all those years, lurking in the shadows before taking action, he is at least as cunning as Doffy.
General Blackbeard Thread
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Even better considering how Teach initially come off as a really great guy prior to the revelation that he killed thatch.
What revelation are you referring to? Just curious since the first two times Blackbeard was mentioned it came with serious and grim connotations and I didn't see him as a great guy long before I learned who Thatch was… Unless of course you are just referring to how cool BB was with Luffy before it was revealed that the dreamer was ironically none other than Teach, the man Ace and Dalton already mentioned... Just go more in depth please haha
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And finally, he managed to scar shanks. (and beat Bonney)
Also, based on Kid having three scars - one by his eye, another down his face/neck, and then of course the one that cut off his arm - I'm assuming Blackbeard also crushed Kid.
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@Don:
I think Doffy is the more angst-inducing villain, but BB is the better antagonist with his character mirroring the one of our hero.
Also strenght-wise i see BB being or becoming the strongest individual ever lived in the world of OP. (until Luffy defeats him)
Also seeing what plan BB masterminded over all those years, lurking in the shadows before taking action, he is at least as cunning as Doffy.I think that if the Yami Yami no Mi is directly responsible for the stealing of fruits (which it almost certainly is) then BB might seem a little cunning. Also very foolish. Why would he sail on WB's ship for 20 years in search of fruit that he has no guarantee in encountering at all? After 20 years I feel as though it would seem more plausible to grab any of the extremely powerful fruits encountered on the ship. Since he waited so long it seems as though patience is his greatest virtue. BB doesn't really have well thought-out plans, I believe he just sets out for goals and accomplishes them through luck (luck in eventually finding YYNM and being able to eat it before it was eaten, luck in Ace coming to him, luck in Impel Down being invaded when he went in, luck in WB being already drastically weakened by the time they arrived. Why would they go to Marineford? They didn't know that WB was about to die and they made no attempt at hiding themselves before they made themselves enemies of the WG and WB. They could have easily walked in on the start of the battle and been decimated by combined forces of WG and WB. So I'm not sure if he is that cunning, I believe he is just patient and lucky, he believes in dreams. As you stated earlier, Doffy measures himself in new age characteristics stemming from his own prowess accounting for all his abilities and strength that are completely unrelated to luck and only related to how adept Doflo is as a conniving being. BB's strength is much more similar to Luffy's than Doffy's, all about luck and dreams.
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What revelation are you referring to?
you are referring to how cool BB was with Luffy before it was revealed that the dreamer was ironically none other than Teach
:swanson: .
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I think that if the Yami Yami no Mi is directly responsible for the stealing of fruits (which it almost certainly is) then BB might seem a little cunning. Also very foolish. Why would he sail on WB's ship for 20 years in search of fruit that he has no guarantee in encountering at all? After 20 years I feel as though it would seem more plausible to grab any of the extremely powerful fruits encountered on the ship. Since he waited so long it seems as though patience is his greatest virtue. BB doesn't really have well thought-out plans, I believe he just sets out for goals and accomplishes them through luck (luck in eventually finding YYNM and being able to eat it before it was eaten, luck in Ace coming to him, luck in Impel Down being invaded when he went in, luck in WB being already drastically weakened by the time they arrived. Why would they go to Marineford? They didn't know that WB was about to die and they made no attempt at hiding themselves before they made themselves enemies of the WG and WB. They could have easily walked in on the start of the battle and been decimated by combined forces of WG and WB. So I'm not sure if he is that cunning, I believe he is just patient and lucky, he believes in dreams. As you stated earlier, Doffy measures himself in new age characteristics stemming from his own prowess accounting for all his abilities and strength that are completely unrelated to luck and only related to how adept Doflo is as a conniving being. BB's strength is much more similar to Luffy's than Doffy's, all about luck and dreams.
BB decided for himself to go for everything or nothing at all.
He saw the greatest chance of encountering this extremely rare DF by going with WB, who obviously had higher chances to encounter it than other pirates.
When BB would have heard the YYNM was already found he might have just chased the guy and robbed him off his DF(like his crew does now) or he would have seen it as fate and wouldn´t have gone for the top.
The aspects of fate and dreams were made big while we first encountered him, so yeah he is a guy that takes those terms when possible.
Afterall being rescued by Shiliew was pure luck and he acknowledged that, seeing his mission as something greater guided by fate.
He had a great mastermind in his head how he would use the YYNM to get to the top, but he changed his way accordingly.
He wanted to capture Luffy not Ace, but being presented the opportunity he took it.
He didn´t know if his earthquake-DF stealing would be successful, but he tried it.
He´s shooting for the world and after waiting for so long he is now willing to risk it all, fate being on his side he thinks.
His goal was to get the YYNM, become a warlord, getting access to ID to gather a strong crew and after that defeating WB and stealing his DF and title.
That he was able to defeat him during the war may not be planned from the beginning, but after capturing Ace he could be sure that WB would try to rescue him. (he know WB, afterall he sailed with him for 20 years)
So yeah he takes a lot of risks, but he follows his masterplan, which was pretty good, afterall becoming a yonkou in such a short time and stuff is impressive.
It all works out somehow for him, by changing the details here and there, which isn´t how a genius would do it, but again him being presented with fate and dreams as two big cornerstones made that a given. -
Blackbeard is kind of a dumbass. But that only serves to make him that more of an interesting villain.
I mean can you think of any other final shounen villain that didn't have EVERY little teeniest detail planned for and just winged it?
I've had it up to here with the know it all, can't be scratched 'til the last minute type of endgame villain. Gimme BB anyday
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@Don:
So yeah he takes a lot of risks, but he follows his masterplan, which was pretty good, afterall becoming a yonkou in such a short time and stuff is impressive.
It all works out somehow for him, by changing the details here and there, which isn´t how a genius would do it, but again him being presented with fate and dreams as two big cornerstones made that a given.2 years is not that impressive considering he was a veteran pirate, strong on his own( leave scars on another yonkou before he got a df), and had knowledge about WB's lands more then anyone else since he was with him for so long.
Let's see how long it takes the supernovas to replace the yonkous that will fall( shanks, big mom, kaidou). Unless there's another time skip,a few months at most if not days/weeks.
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@uniaka:
2 years is not that impressive considering he was a veteran pirate, strong on his own( leave scars on another yonkou before he got a df), and had knowledge about WB's lands more then anyone else since he was with him for so long.
Let's see how long it takes the supernovas to replace the yonkous that will fall( shanks, big mom, kaidou). Unless there's another time skip,a few months at most if not days/weeks.
Well, i don´t know when exactly he becam a yonkou (wasn´t that before the end of the TS?), but you have to take into the equation that he just formed his own pirate crew.
He sure was a veteran by that, but he was considered a no-name by the marine who didn´t even have a bounty before he became a shichibukai.
The supernovae make a name for themself for at least 2-3 years already before they even start now tackle the yonkous. -
@uniaka:
leave scars on another yonkou before he got a df
Do we know this? I thought the timeline was a little unclear, but could have sworn he did it after leaving the WB pirates, and thus after getting his fruit.
Could someone explain the timeline to me if otherwise?
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Blackbeard is kind of a dumbass. But that only serves to make him that more of an interesting villain.
I mean can you think of any other final shounen villain that didn't have EVERY little teeniest detail planned for and just winged it?
I've had it up to here with the know it all, can't be scratched 'til the last minute type of endgame villain. Gimme BB anyday
Exactly. He's basically a typical shounen protagonist, but evil.
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Do we know this? I thought the timeline was a little unclear, but could have sworn he did it after leaving the WB pirates, and thus after getting his fruit.
Could someone explain the timeline to me if otherwise?
What we have are chapter 0, 1 and 434.
Ten years before Luffy set off (Shanks is 27 y. o.) he already had the scar:
http://a.mfcdn.net/store/manga/106/01-001.0/compressed/f010.jpg (it's likely he wasn't an emperor yet).
We know he didn't have it during the battle of Edd War (Shanks is 12 y. o.)
http://a.mfcdn.net/store/manga/106/58-565.5/compressed/fone_piece_sw_00_04.jpg
Curiously Oda did his best not to show his face during Roger's execution flashback (Shanks is 15 y. o.)
http://a.mfcdn.net/store/manga/106/45-434.0/compressed/h009.jpg
http://a.mfcdn.net/store/manga/106/58-565.5/compressed/fone_piece_sw_00_14.jpg
and his first meeting with Yasopp (Shanks is 17 y. o.)
http://a.mfcdn.net/store/manga/106/58-565.5/compressed/fone_piece_sw_00_20.jpg Teach is one year older than Shanks. -
I am interested in the encounter between BB and Shanks. First of all… Did BB actually scratch him with his nails? I just can't see anybody in OP fighting like that besides Black Cats
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I am interested in the encounter between BB and Shanks. First of all… Did BB actually scratch him with his nails? I just can't see anybody in OP fighting like that besides Black Cats
Blackbeard had that wolverine claw which he probably ditched after he killed Thatch with it and got his hands on yami yami no mi.
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Blackbeard had that wolverine claw which he probably ditched after he killed Thatch with it and got his hands on yami yami no mi.
Ok cool. Wasn't that shown with blood on it when they were describing how BB killed Thatch? Can't remember when that was though- maybe Ace and Bb fight.
On to my next point though: BB most likely dropped the claws because now he can do it with YYNM and make the space between blades muchlarger, resulting in spaced out scars on Kid and lack of arm. Imagine getting slashed by that attack from YYNM, imbued in haki, and GGNM shockwaves blowing you away after. Brutal. BB is so underrated by so many and I don't understand why… He isn't losing to anyone but Luffy. -
How Black Beard can use multiple fruits…...
If this has been posted sorry I didn't want to scan through 272 pages.In Chapter 225, after being beaten by Bellamy and Associates, and a second run in with Blackbeard eating his pies.....after walking away Luffy and Zoro agree and say "it wasn't he....it was "those" guys"At this moment Blackbeard is both ..... Teach AND Thatch. A possible absorption of of Thatch's Fruit or maybe even his soul, something along those lines, full capabilities of Yami Yami have no been seen. Later on after Marineford they are Teach, Thatch AND Edward Newgate (White Beard)The Real Blackbeard's name was Edward Teach, or (Edward Thatch), Which is a combination of the two.
could be referring to his hidden crewmates, but i just happened to put a little more thought into it and happened to share it
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@White:
A possible absorption of of Thatch's Fruit or maybe even his soul, something along those lines
The fact that Thatch took the Yami Yami no Mi in the first place after finding it, rather than passing it on to another crew member indicates that he hadn't previously eaten a devil fruit.
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My problem with BB right now is that he gave shanks that nasty scar before he had any DF, he was already hella strong, he had to be able to move fast and definitely would need to know haki. Where the fuck is that now? i get the yami yami no mi absorbs attacks, but everything he did just seemed like a slugfest. His character says villain, but I'm disappointed with the way he's acted.
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The fact that Thatch took the Yami Yami no Mi in the first place after finding it, rather than passing it on to another crew member indicates that he hadn't previously eaten a devil fruit.
I meant to say the absorbtion of Thatch through the power of the fruit.
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My problem with BB right now is that he gave shanks that nasty scar before he had any DF, he was already hella strong, he had to be able to move fast and definitely would need to know haki. Where the fuck is that now? i get the yami yami no mi absorbs attacks, but everything he did just seemed like a slugfest. His character says villain, but I'm disappointed with the way he's acted.
In basketball, there's a saying that's called "deceptively fast". Basically a guy looks sluggish and slow, but he always manages to beat his man, and you wonder how he does. Some people are just not flashy or agile, but they are quick.
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My problem with BB right now is that he gave shanks that nasty scar before he had any DF, he was already hella strong, he had to be able to move fast and definitely would need to know haki.
Would he need to know haki?
Bear in mind that we don't know how proficient a haki user Shanks was at that point, nor how strong he was in general.
Where the fuck is that now?
The only protracted fight that we've seen Teach take part in was against Ace, and on that occasion he was easily able to hang with a Yonko commander in terms of pure physical ability.
i get the yami yami no mi absorbs attacks, but everything he did just seemed like a slugfest.
It does seem to come down to that, since attacks are drawn to Teach, with him relying on his ridiculous durability to get through fights.
His character says villain, but I'm disappointed with the way he's acted.
The sad thing is, Teach is the only Blackbeard Pirate who's actually fared fairly well in battle, when he doesn't get way overconfident in his absorption abilities.
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Would he need to know haki?
Bear in mind that we don't know how proficient a haki user Shanks was at that point, nor how strong he was in general.
I think the story points towards him being already quite proficient. He was presumably already a New World veteran, having sailed after Roger's crew disbanded, and while he may not have been a yonkou, he was captain of his own ship (regarded as the strongest of his crew, he needs to be able to protect others). No direct proof but It seems like a safe assumption he knew his shit.
The only protracted fight that we've seen Teach take part in was against Ace, and on that occasion he was easily able to hang with a Yonko commander in terms of pure physical ability.
Agreed, but at the same we saw nothing haki-wise from Ace either. It wasn't being flashily shown like it is now, but Ace's rise to power seemed rushed in which case i can accept his lack of haki or very limited used of. Blackbeard had no reasons not to block a strong attack like Hiken with the help of haki.
It does seem to come down to that, since attacks are drawn to Teach, with him relying on his ridiculous durability to get through fights.
Drawn to is what i meant to say, and i think my problem will be solved with a better understanding of Teach's fruit. Basically if Burgess is standing 20 meters away from Blackbeard, will an attack aimed at Burgess suddenly veer at a 90 degree angle towards BB? Is there an "event horizon" of some sort? because if not every attack at marineford should've been running in his direction. His fight with ace would be another example, ace used hiken (?) against the Blackbeard pirates present, while Teach was hit, the rest of the crew was as well. So not all the damage is taken in by him.
The sad thing is, Teach is the only Blackbeard Pirate who's actually fared fairly well in battle, when he doesn't get way overconfident in his absorption abilities.
He's done well but considering the amount of power characters in one piece are starting to have, being unable to avoid attacks seems like a much too large handicap. Time will help me probably.
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With BB's patient nature, I can easily see him sitting out for awhile. By this I mean that he has effectively removed all attention from himself and is currently in the midsts of another plan with long term goals involving many smaller tasks that must be completed prior. These missions include spying on peers for information while displauong few abilities themselves e.g Jaya, Impel Down, Marineford, Burgess in DR, capturing Bonney, etc. All of their interactions with series characters has been minimal for the most part with the only people they really screwed over being the WG (who seem to show no priority in battling yonkos) and WB's crew that is probably on the run, scattered, and much weaker anyway. Meanwhile, Shanks is being targeted, Big Mom and Kaido are involved with Capone, Drake, Hawkins, Apoo, Killer, Kid, Law, Luffy, etc., there has been toms of interactions between Kaido and Big Mom yet virtually no known interaction with BB post time skip other than minimal Burgess screentime. It's safe to say that BB will continue to be patient and wait for an extended period of time- largely playing the same role that he played in the first half, appearing to make smaller moves that don't really aggravate anybody, and occasionally making a big play that falls under the category of long term goals for the crew. So I'm saying that BB will not play a role that is small for awhile in the series, or at least a lot smaller than Kaido and Big Mom.
BB's current small plans seem to be stealing fruits on recon missions like the one Burgess took to DR. He was unsucccessful, but when big names in Kaido's crew and Big Mom's crew begin to fall there is high potential for BB to emerge at this time to make a big play on a fruit. This wouldn't really be a recon mission, it would be a coordinated effort by BB to acquire powerful DFs. After these plays, BB will begin to gain more focus, but will already have his own crew, largely unscathed from all the Big Mom/Kaido conflicts, and will also have significant additions to his powe as a result of stealing Kaido/Big Mom fruits. If either of BM/Kaido have fruits even comprable to WB's then a man like Burgess could significantly increase his power and the power of the crew. I readily see Burgess coming up with one of the powerful fruits mentioned to solidify his role as division commander. -
I'm really hoping that two fruits are the maximum that he can have. Too many powers are definitely a turn off and makes things feel cluttered.
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I generally go to Naruto forums to talk about 'power level' related crap, but right now, I have an urge to talk about it here. So here it goes.
Obviously, Blackbeard is a monster. He has one of the strongest, if not the strongest paramecia in the world, and an extremely peculiar logia that, according to Blackbeard, is also the strongest of its kind. As a yonkou and more importantly, the series likely final antagonist, Blackbeard is very likely going to go down as the second strongest character in the series, after end of series Luffy of course, but honestly, Blackbeard's power is not exactly what I want to discuss right now. What I'm more interested in is discussing his crewmate's and their fighting capacities, which at this point, are extraordinarily hard to evaluate, given our current lack of knowledge regarding these characters.
More specifically, outside of Shiliew (who, as Zoro's likely final challenge to become WSS, must be slightly above Mihawk, unless Oda decides to go the Mihawk versus Zoro route) (and Aokiji, who is only slightly below Akainu, if he really is one of Blackbeard's 10 main men), the level sixers and Blackbeard's four original men are extremely hard to quantify. The sixers, from what we know, are the strongest amongst monsters: they beat fighters of at least Jinbe's calibre to be chosen as BB's subordinates. But here's what I don't understand, how can we expect Luffy's lesser crew mates to beat these guys believably, but still allow these guys to live up to their hype. I mean, I could see Jinbe taking one of them down, but not Brook, Robin, or Franky, who I believe the sixers are to fight (unless Oda gives Nami Catarina and Brooke Lafitte, which I could see happening, given Nami's fights have always been against women). Will the rest of the Strawhats just grow strong enough to take on these fighters, who each could probably give the current Jinbe an intense battle, or will they simply be weaker than I believe them to be?
Then comes the question of Burgess, Lafitte, Doc Q, and Van Augur. How strong will they be? Honestly, I have no idea outside of the fact Burgess was able to destroy a whole block in a few seconds (which was probably just as competitive as B & D), and was able to fight a losing battle with Sabo. I honestly don't expect the other original Blackbeards to be much weaker in comparison. How in the hell is Luffy's weakest crew members (Chopper, Usopp, Nami) going to handle a guy like this when Usopp was shown being destroyed by a 'relatively' pathetic character like Trebol. Once again, I repeat, will Oda make these characters stronger or just not make Blackbeard's crewmates worthy of their hype. Hopefully, its the former, but I guess I'll just wait and see.
/end rant.
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The question: do we classify Blackbeard as an idiot or a smart guy?
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@le:
The question: do we classify Blackbeard as an idiot or a smart guy?
He's just sly, he uses sly methods and deceit to get what he wants. So I definitely don't see him as an idiot. He's not Luffy.
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@le:
The question: do we classify Blackbeard as an idiot or a smart guy?
A smart, conniving, fantastic, lovable bastard.
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I always found Blackbeard rather likeable. Most people hate him because he was responsible for Ace's death but I never really cared about Ace :ninja:
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@le:
The question: do we classify Blackbeard as an idiot or a smart guy?
Average guy that knows that the author is backing him up, so he doesn't have to bother with smart plans.
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@le:
I always found Blackbeard rather likeable. Most people hate him because he was responsible for Ace's death but I never really cared about Ace :ninja:
I think he is a shitty character for being a "muhaha I'm evil character" and his power being a concentrate of BS( Hey I have 2 fruits after we established that was impossible. Hey my logia is actually so special it doesn't act as a logia at all. Hey I have the odd devil fruit power to take away your devil fruit power).
He is actually well liked by most.
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@le:
I always found Blackbeard rather likeable. Most people hate him because he was responsible for Ace's death but I never really cared about Ace :ninja:
Nah I don't hate him because of Ace. Actually I don't hate him.
I like what he's supposed to represent in the manga, an ambitious guy who despite using underhanded methods, still has dreams that he's trying to realize. So imo he's definitely one of the more interesting characters out there. And I just like Blackbeard overall(the real life pirate). -
Average guy that knows that the author is backing him up, so he doesn't have to bother with smart plans.
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I think he is a shitty character for being a "muhaha I'm evil character" and his power being a concentrate of BS( Hey I have 2 fruits after we established that was impossible. Hey my logia is actually so special it doesn't act as a logia at all. Hey I have the odd devil fruit power to take away your devil fruit power).
He is actually well liked by most.
Blackbeard, like Luffy, is 'a chosen one'. His (and Luffy's) plot armor is literally recognized as a plot point (see Hawkins following Marineford). Blackbeard isn't supposed to be this scheming, puppet master whose plans all fall in to place; he literally has left everything in his life life to fate. As a result, Blackbeard not making precautions for things like Magellan, is totally in character. And this makes sense: Blackbeard is meant to be Luffy's doppelganger. If he was a scheming master mind, how would he fit into his doppelganger mold?
I'll give you the first point, Blackbeard is your standard 'cackling sociopathic villain'. I for one like that part of him, primarily because it better identifies him as a One Piece character, but I understand why you wouldn't like that. But as to the second, I think you are giving him to much crap. We don't even know why people can't eat two devil fruits at this point; in fact, we haven't even seen someone die after consuming two devil fruit. Before judging this particular aspect of him, I think you should wait until Oda better explains the mechanics of devil fruit, and stop calling BS.
And finally, he is not, by any means, a shitty character; that is a description of characters like the pointless vacuum lady from 755, Sadie in Impel Down, Boa Hancock (IMO), and Hody ( even better example are probably Sasuke, Obito, and Sakura). Blackbeard may not be likable, and annoying, but I don't think anyone should call him shitty.
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Blackbeard, like Luffy, is 'a chosen one'. His (and Luffy's) plot armor is literally recognized as a plot point (see Hawkins following Marineford). Blackbeard isn't supposed to be this scheming, puppet master whose plans all fall in to place; he literally has left everything in his life life to fate. As a result, Blackbeard not making precautions for things like Magellan, is totally in character. And this makes sense: Blackbeard is meant to be Luffy's doppelganger. If he was a scheming master mind, how would he fit into his doppelganger mold?
I'll give you the first point, Blackbeard is your standard 'cackling sociopathic villain'. I for one like that part of him, primarily because it better identifies him as a One Piece character, but I understand why you wouldn't like that. But as to the second, I think you are giving him to much crap. We don't even know why people can't eat two devil fruits at this point; in fact, we haven't even seen someone die after consuming two devil fruit. Before judging this particular aspect of him, I think you should wait until Oda better explains the mechanics of devil fruit, and stop calling BS.
And finally, he is not, by any means, a shitty character; that is a description of characters like the pointless vacuum lady from 755, Sadie in Impel Down, Boa Hancock (IMO), and Hody ( even better example are probably Sasuke, Obito, and Sakura). Blackbeard may not be likable, and annoying, but I don't think anyone should call him shitty.
Yeah so far only characters like Rebecca should be considered as shitty.She was completely pointless.
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Yeah so far only characters like Rebecca should be considered as shitty.She was completely pointless.
Rebecca, although an extremely unlikable character, was not a character I'd consider 'shitty'. She may have been obnoxious and a cry baby, but not once did she ever act 'out of character' or do anything absurdly cringe worthy. Furthermore, she did service Kyros' plot and that makes her useful to an extent. And maybe, who knows, she might become the bad ass girl everybody wants her to be in the final war; she is living with her badass father afterall. That term, 'shitty' to me at least, is reserved for characters who are not redeemable from a writing standpoint, and no amount of good writing could save them from 'shitty' characterization like vacuum-lady from 755.
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Rebecca, although an extremely unlikable character, was not a character I'd consider 'shitty'. She may have been obnoxious and a cry baby, but not once did she ever act 'out of character' or do anything absurdly cringe worthy. Furthermore, she did service Kyros' plot and that makes her useful to an extent. And maybe, who knows, she might become the bad ass girl everybody wants her to be in the final war; she is living with her badass father afterall. That term, 'shitty' to me at least, is reserved for characters who are not redeemable from a writing standpoint, and no amount of good writing could save them from 'shitty' characterization like vacuum-lady from 755.
To me she didn't serve a purpose, even without her Luffy still had plenty of good reasons to beat DD. And the whole drama with Kyros didn't do much for me.I felt sorry for Kyros but the rest was rather meh. She somewhat did act out of character, at first she was shown to be able to survive in the arena despite not attacking, and she even somehow managed to dodge Hakuba's attack…only for her to become a damsel in distress and shit her pants in front of Diamante. That and her trying to attack DD was cringe worthy for me.
But this is how I feel about her, I don't expect people to unanimously agree about that,just like we can't expect everyone to see BB as a well written character.Some might have good reasons to dislike him, I personally don't find morally grey or even evil characters to be annoying, on the contrary. -
Huh I don't get the Rebecca hate. She's just a 16 year old who wants to live an uneventful and peaceful life. That's what most people want actually. She never wanted to be a gladiator. And Oda made it clear in a way that she wasn't a really good fighter right from the beginning.
People, if you see your mother's killer right in front of you, who happens to be the top executives of a shichibukai, and is about x1000 times stronger than you, it is normal that you freak out.
I neither like nor hate her, I just think that she gets too much undeserved hate…. -
Well, that's true. It's not her fault she was terribly written. Much like her dad.
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@le:
Huh I don't get the Rebecca hate. She's just a 16 year old who wants to live an uneventful and peaceful life. That's what most people want actually. She never wanted to be a gladiator. And Oda made it clear in a way that she wasn't a really good fighter right from the beginning.
People, if you see your mother's killer right in front of you, who happens to be the top executives of a shichibukai, and is about x1000 times stronger than you, it is normal that you freak out.
I neither like nor hate her, I just think that she gets too much undeserved hate….Well it's not as much her fault as it is Oda highlighting her so much, even though she's a bland and annoying character.The only redeeming bit about her I guess was her Red Sonja outfit. :happy:
Too bad I'm not a guy so I can't really appreciate that. Not to mention that it's rather creepy since she's just a kid.
I think Vivi was better written than her, since they're essentially the same type of characters(princess in distress). And I wasn't a huge fan of her either, but I overall liked her story better, and how she fought to save her country, even though she was pretty much powerless against Crocodile. Rebecca is just a very pale copy of Vivi.
And back on topic.About BB I can't say that him having two DFs is a flaw, if anything it's a plot point that will be explained later, no doubt about that. It's just Oda trying to make him overpowered since he's most likely going to be one of the final villains of the story. Luffy can't hope to become PK if he can't beat him, so Oda is making him to be pretty OP in preparation for that.
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I hope its limited to 2 DF's only. I don't want to see him turning into a shark and making tornadoes and shooting random beams and turning into a crocodile and manipulating plants and telekinesis and turning into a lion and creating metal while occasionally throwing random earthquakes and black holes.
That's a villain I won't take seriously.
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@le:
I hope its limited to 2 DF's only. I don't want to see him turning into a shark and making tornadoes and shooting random beams and turning into a crocodile and manipulating plants and telekinesis and turning into a lion and creating metal while occasionally throwing random earthquakes and black holes.
That's a villain I won't take seriously.
I think he still needs a Zoan, but since he already has two OP fruits, a logia and a paramecia, it might not be necessary.
Yeah I really don't think he needs to get stronger but you never know. His flag has 3 skulls, maybe the limit will be 3 DFs, if the chimera theory turns out to be true.
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If BB eats a zoan, then maybe the rat rat no mi is not taken. It kinda suits him.:ninja:
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I generally go to Naruto forums to talk about 'power level' related crap, but right now, I have an urge to talk about it here. So here it goes.
Obviously, Blackbeard is a monster. He has one of the strongest, if not the strongest paramecia in the world, and an extremely peculiar logia that, according to Blackbeard, is also the strongest of its kind. As a yonkou and more importantly, the series likely final antagonist, Blackbeard is very likely going to go down as the second strongest character in the series, after end of series Luffy of course, but honestly, Blackbeard's power is not exactly what I want to discuss right now. What I'm more interested in is discussing his crewmate's and their fighting capacities, which at this point, are extraordinarily hard to evaluate, given our current lack of knowledge regarding these characters.
More specifically, outside of Shiliew (who, as Zoro's likely final challenge to become WSS, must be slightly above Mihawk, unless Oda decides to go the Mihawk versus Zoro route) (and Aokiji, who is only slightly below Akainu, if he really is one of Blackbeard's 10 main men), the level sixers and Blackbeard's four original men are extremely hard to quantify. The sixers, from what we know, are the strongest amongst monsters: they beat fighters of at least Jinbe's calibre to be chosen as BB's subordinates. But here's what I don't understand, how can we expect Luffy's lesser crew mates to beat these guys believably, but still allow these guys to live up to their hype. I mean, I could see Jinbe taking one of them down, but not Brook, Robin, or Franky, who I believe the sixers are to fight (unless Oda gives Nami Catarina and Brooke Lafitte, which I could see happening, given Nami's fights have always been against women). Will the rest of the Strawhats just grow strong enough to take on these fighters, who each could probably give the current Jinbe an intense battle, or will they simply be weaker than I believe them to be?
Then comes the question of Burgess, Lafitte, Doc Q, and Van Augur. How strong will they be? Honestly, I have no idea outside of the fact Burgess was able to destroy a whole block in a few seconds (which was probably just as competitive as B & D), and was able to fight a losing battle with Sabo. I honestly don't expect the other original Blackbeards to be much weaker in comparison. How in the hell is Luffy's weakest crew members (Chopper, Usopp, Nami) going to handle a guy like this when Usopp was shown being destroyed by a 'relatively' pathetic character like Trebol. Once again, I repeat, will Oda make these characters stronger or just not make Blackbeard's crewmates worthy of their hype. Hopefully, its the former, but I guess I'll just wait and see.
/end rant.
Well if you consider Shanks' main crew that has been seen from the beginning. Ben Beckham is at least admiral level considering how Kizaru reacted to him and then you add in guys like Lucky Roo who is probs not far behind so realistically Nami Chopper and Usopp will all gain power.
IT brings a thought to my mind of how weak Nami and usopp were at the start of series and now I wonder if they would be able to take guys that base Luffy fought. The only people i don't see them beating is guys like Croc, Lucci, and Moriah. I mean they are not that weak they are just afraid to fight. Its a perfect callback to Nami vs Miss Doublefinger. I think that was supposed to be the point of FI is to show while they may be weak comparably to the other SH they are still pretty strong. They took down Fishman (who are 10x stronger than humans) who were on energy steroids. I don't think that Trebol vs Usopp is a good example just because of the weirdness that was Treble's DF.
I think one thing is that while the 6ers are quite powerful I see them hiding behind BB's name and not increasing that much in power while the SH like Zoro has said are getting stronger with every adventure. Eventually I think it will even out, tho it might take a timeskip…..
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Blackbeard, like Luffy, is 'a chosen one'. His (and Luffy's) plot armor is literally recognized as a plot point (see Hawkins following Marineford).
Hawkins said it wasn't impossible for him to survive. The guy was rescued by a a magical surgeon and Pell took a freaking nuke. Use the lightning scene next time.
Blackbeard isn't supposed to be this scheming, puppet master whose plans all fall in to place; he literally has left everything in his life life to fate. As a result, Blackbeard not making precautions for things like Magellan, is totally in character.
So he is a character that quite literally relies on the author letting things work his way or straight bending the rule for him. Yet somehow I can't call that shitty. It's hard to immerse yourself when it feels like that character can only exist if he is aware the story needs him.
And this makes sense: Blackbeard is meant to be Luffy's doppelganger. If he was a scheming master mind, how would he fit into his doppelganger mold?
Luffy is not even my favorite character and I still found that ridiculous. Luffy isn't going to spend 20 years under someone waiting for a sign to be pirate king, Luffy doesn't rely on luck but his guts. But you can always try the he is the opposite of Luffy.
I
'll give you the first point, Blackbeard is your standard 'cackling sociopathic villain'. I for one like that part of him, primarily because it better identifies him as a One Piece character, but I understand why you wouldn't like that.
Doflamingo is that but he still works better. I probably wouldn't even care if so many weren't certain this is what we are going to get for a final villain. The guy that luck his way to the top and laugh maniacally.
But as to the second, I think you are giving him to much crap. We don't even know why people can't eat two devil fruits at this point; in fact, we haven't even seen someone die after consuming two devil fruit. Before judging this particular aspect of him, I think you should wait until Oda better explains the mechanics of devil fruit, and stop calling BS.
Just because the author suddenly invent a explanation doesn't stop it from being a BS or an asspull. It would be the same if suddenly there was this magical pills that makes it able to swim. At least for that one it be a small plot point that would make me roll my eyes but would not really contradict anything, rather than an important matter that directly contradicts what Oda established.
And finally, he is not, by any means, a shitty character; that is a description of characters like the pointless vacuum lady from 755, Sadie in Impel Down, Boa Hancock (IMO), and Hody ( even better example are probably Sasuke, Obito, and Sakura). Blackbeard may not be likable, and annoying, but I don't think anyone should call him shitty.
Vacuum is useless, Sadie definetely isn't shitty from her importance in the prison and actually being important in the arc, Boa is wasted, and Hody is excatly what he is supposed to be(the racism message) although the execution would be better. Blackbeard is simply that bad, and somehow he is suppose to be my final villain.
Don't worry I consider MF as the worst arc so you can gladly dismiss my opinion. -
@le:
Huh I don't get the Rebecca hate. She's just a 16 year old who wants to live an uneventful and peaceful life. That's what most people want actually. She never wanted to be a gladiator. And Oda made it clear in a way that she wasn't a really good fighter right from the beginning.
People, if you see your mother's killer right in front of you, who happens to be the top executives of a shichibukai, and is about x1000 times stronger than you, it is normal that you freak out.
I neither like nor hate her, I just think that she gets too much undeserved hate….Eh i don't hate her, but she is the worst written damsel in distress in the series. It's like Oda didn't know what to do with her.
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@uniaka:
If BB eats a zoan, then maybe the rat rat no mi is not taken. It kinda suits him.:ninja:
Rats are terryfing little creatures, with their teeth, ravenous hunger, standar super senses, stealth, a nice and small full beast form to hide and weight changing shenanigans, and bones with loose tendons so if the head can fit into something, the rest of the body will surely follow.
What I wonder is who exactly are the allies of Blackbeard? What people could have he gathered in one year to be enough to match the 14 whitebeard commanders, and the 20+ something fleet captains? !!! The "Dark Luffy" aspect rises again, he can also gain allies by being earnest and solving their problems.
So it's not the WG or it's branches, it's not the ragtag bunch of missfits that follow Luffy, it's not mihawk, not wano, not moria (maybe), not crocodile, not enel, not Kuro/Krieg/Morgan, definitely not arlong, not the escapees of Impel down (okamas to the revolutionaries, the rank and file to buggy, the most dangerous to BB, what happened to the "not quite highest tier"? they wouldn't want to work with BB after that, and if they escaped before or after the offer was made, they just don't have interest in working with him), the only unafiliated Supernova, Uroge?, Somehow he made an aliance with the KAH aliance (featuring Killer) just like law and luffy? Mercenaries? Some countries that somehow weren't in any of the Emperor's influence?
Best bet, he like Luffy went around collecting alies during the time with the Whitebeard pirates, doing favors and making connections, with.. I don't know, countries of the new world, and then he managed to cash in big, getting the WB territories, individualy these friends are the Vivis, Daltons, Bartolomeos, Harujidins and Cabbages of Blackbeard's journey, while we saw Luffy's journey, without the context we wouldn't know that a future queen of one of the oldest nations of the world, the king (actualy president) of a reborn nation, some random thug from east blue, a ambitious giant and a pompous vegetable have so much in debt to the strawhats.
Also, there's Caribou. He had a master, and by the day it looks less like it was Kaidou, and more like it was Blackbeard.
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Rats are terryfing little creatures, with their teeth, ravenous hunger, standar super senses, stealth, a nice and small full beast form to hide and weight changing shenanigans, and bones with loose tendons so if the head can fit into something, the rest of the body will surely follow.
What I wonder is who exactly are the allies of Blackbeard? What people could have he gathered in one year to be enough to match the 14 whitebeard commanders, and the 20+ something fleet captains? !!! The "Dark Luffy" aspect rises again, he can also gain allies by being earnest and solving their problems.
So it's not the WG or it's branches, it's not the ragtag bunch of missfits that follow Luffy, it's not mihawk, not wano, not moria (maybe), not crocodile, not enel, not Kuro/Krieg/Morgan, definitely not arlong, not the escapees of Impel down (okamas to the revolutionaries, the rank and file to buggy, the most dangerous to BB, what happened to the "not quite highest tier"? they wouldn't want to work with BB after that, and if they escaped before or after the offer was made, they just don't have interest in working with him), the only unafiliated Supernova, Uroge?, Somehow he made an aliance with the KAH aliance (featuring Killer) just like law and luffy? Mercenaries? Some countries that somehow weren't in any of the Emperor's influence?
Best bet, he like Luffy went around collecting alies during the time with the Whitebeard pirates, doing favors and making connections, with.. I don't know, countries of the new world, and then he managed to cash in big, getting the WB territories, individualy these friends are the Vivis, Daltons, Bartolomeos, Harujidins and Cabbages of Blackbeard's journey, while we saw Luffy's journey, without the context we wouldn't know that a future queen of one of the oldest nations of the world, the king (actualy president) of a reborn nation, some random thug from east blue, a ambitious giant and a pompous vegetable have so much in debt to the strawhats.
Also, there's Caribou. He had a master, and by the day it looks less like it was Kaidou, and more like it was Blackbeard.
Yep I believe it's BB and not Kaido. It could be a similar situation with Barto and Luffy, BB might have inspired Caribou. And both seem to be on the evil spectrum.
In the end those who allied with BB could either be people who share a similar view as him of the world, or just see their interests as the same as BB's, but we can't exclude the possibility of people being afraid of him.
He apparently crushed the WB pirates in the grudge war, so that gave him the stature of a Yonko. And if I'm not mistaken we saw Ace deal with Doma who surrendered to him. So it could be a similar situation with BB, those he defeated would be forced to submit to him, and become his allies.
Actually it's no different from Bege or X Drake who joined BM and Kaido respectively. We know that there are two ways to survive in the NW, challenge the Yonko or submit to them, so they might have also been forced to join the Yonko. Although it does seem like they're part of the crew and not just allies.
Anyway I believe BB would have no problem finding allies, there's more to pirates than just the good hearted ones, in fact a few of them are quite despicable.Just look at the Beast pirates (Kaido's crew). And that's how things should be, pirates aren't supposed to be heroes like the SHs, they're supposed to be violent and even hurt citizens like the Kidd pirates. So BB having allies out there isn't so weird, it is to be expected since there are more despicable pirates out there than you'd think, on top of having some getting beaten and being forced to surrender to him. -
BB has a lot of charisma, and power has its own appeal. Even if someone isn't morally corrupt, I can still see them joining BB given certain circumstances.
I think that the characters people find annoying, are the ones who aren't the antagonists but still sort of get in the protagonist's way, and by getting in the way I mean make the protagonist take longer to beat up the bad guy.
I can definitely see the parallels between Rebecca and Vivi, but she's NOT supposed to be Vivi in any way, aside from her title as princess. She is also NOT a damsel in distress - she's a child in distress. We have the general story of DD taking over Dressrosa, and alongside it a focus on a certain family which was destroyed because of this event. We have the story before the take over, during it, and after it. That's what Rebecca is supposed to be. She's the child who had her life turned upside down because of the antagonist, and the parent who tried to keep her life as normal as possible. She was NOT supposed to have a serious fight in the entire arc, she was supposed to be saved from fights in circumstances that would force her to fight.
Is Rebecca the best written character? probably not. But she's served her purpose, and I don't see a reason to hate her. -
BB has a lot of charisma, and power has its own appeal. Even if someone isn't morally corrupt, I can still see them joining BB given certain circumstances.
I think that the characters people find annoying, are the ones who aren't the antagonists but still sort of get in the protagonist's way, and by getting in the way I mean make the protagonist take longer to beat up the bad guy.
I can definitely see the parallels between Rebecca and Vivi, but she's NOT supposed to be Vivi in any way, aside from her title as princess. She is also NOT a damsel in distress - she's a child in distress. We have the general story of DD taking over Dressrosa, and alongside it a focus on a certain family which was destroyed because of this event. We have the story before the take over, during it, and after it. That's what Rebecca is supposed to be. She's the child who had her life turned upside down because of the antagonist, and the parent who tried to keep her life as normal as possible. She was NOT supposed to have a serious fight in the entire arc, she was supposed to be saved from fights in circumstances that would force her to fight.
Is Rebecca the best written character? probably not. But she's served her purpose, and I don't see a reason to hate her.…Yes Vivi is actually better written than her, considering that she actively tried to protect her country.The only difference is that one was raised as a princess while the other wasn't. Actually Vivi was 16 during her debut in Alabasta, Rebecca is also 16 so there's no age difference. Age isn't a factor here, both are still technically young adults, or just minors. She is a damsel in distress, which usually means a female character that needs saving at all times.That is exactly what happened throughout the Dressrosa arc, and I'm sorry but I don't see a trope called child in distress. Both are technically still children.So your argument is invalid.
Age doesn't equal maturity, as you can tell Vivi is prolly the more mature from the two, even though I could argue that she also suffered a trauma from Crocodile who tried to destroy her country. Not saying that Rebecca's trauma is on the same level as Vivi's but you can definitely say that Rebecca was definitely more scared, and even if we saw her act tough it wasn't convincing.Vivi while weak still gave the impression that she would fight till the bitter end, and I don't get your comment about getting the story before the take over, during and after. Didn't we see in flashbacks Crocodile set up the trap for Cobra, to make him look like he was using the dance powder? Didn't we see the events that unfolded, with Vivi doing her best to try and stop the revolutionaries(including Kohza)? Didn't we see the country being torn apart, and the Revos still deciding to fight? Didn't we see the fall of Crocodile and the aftermath?
I really don't get your point. They both served the same role, which is to get Luffy to fight the main villain, although in Vivi's case she played a much bigger role, and was even closer to the SHs. While the drama with Rebecca and Kyros simply cannot be the only reason Luffy decided to fight DD, with it or without it he would have fought DD, because it was all part of the plan.
If she's a child and was obviously still too scared to do anything, then she should have done just that, do nothing. Instead we saw her get in dangerous situations, and she wasn't even brave about it. Vivi definitely had more backbone than her. In the end her being pushed on the foreground like that was a bad writing decision from Oda, her character was bland and she wasn't even close to the SHs. We're supposed to sympathize with her and her story but all that feels forced, and I could only sympathize with Kyros who lost his wife, and his daughter forgot about him.
No she doesn't remotely come close to being the best written character, she's one of the weakest characters in the entire arc and the series,and that one had quite a few of them. I'm sorry but just saying that doesn't make it close for us to see her in a better light.And lol good luck convincing people of that.If they hate a character who could be seen as better written than her like BB, then it's simply not a matter of who is better written. It's also a matter of tastes, not everyone likes shroud and evil characters like BB. -
BB has a lot of charisma, and power has its own appeal. Even if someone isn't morally corrupt, I can still see them joining BB given certain circumstances.
I think that the characters people find annoying, are the ones who aren't the antagonists but still sort of get in the protagonist's way, and by getting in the way I mean make the protagonist take longer to beat up the bad guy.
I can definitely see the parallels between Rebecca and Vivi, but she's NOT supposed to be Vivi in any way, aside from her title as princess. She is also NOT a damsel in distress - she's a child in distress. We have the general story of DD taking over Dressrosa, and alongside it a focus on a certain family which was destroyed because of this event. We have the story before the take over, during it, and after it. That's what Rebecca is supposed to be. She's the child who had her life turned upside down because of the antagonist, and the parent who tried to keep her life as normal as possible. She was NOT supposed to have a serious fight in the entire arc, she was supposed to be saved from fights in circumstances that would force her to fight.
Is Rebecca the best written character? probably not. But she's served her purpose, and I don't see a reason to hate her.People don't seem to understand the main purpose of Rebecca which is why they don't like her you see her main purpose is that she made Usopp's lie come true back in thriller bark during the Gekko moriah arc Usopp woke up Luffy,Sanji and Zoro after they had their shadows taken by saying ''beautiful swordwoman just brought some meat'' woke all 3 of them up even though before they were trying to beat them up to wake them which did not work after they had their shadows taken lol.
She feed Luffy meat after his fight in the arena before she went into the last round which she won by luck she of course fights with a sword in the arena and later on tried to take diamante on with a sharp sword she of course gets her ass kicked and yells for help and she put a dress on at the end of the arc and the people near her said that it made her look beautiful lol.
Kyros is the one that trained her not to kill since he did not want blood on her hands and he felt bad about the person he killed so its not all her fault and that effects her since she holds back a bit since she is afraid she will kill them the only person she did try to kill was diamante who has killed many people,has a devil fruit and more experience and like i said her main purpose is Usopp's lie coming true..
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…Yes Vivi is actually better written than her, considering that she actively tried to protect her country.The only difference is that one was raised as a princess while the other wasn't. Actually Vivi was 16 during her debut in Alabasta, Rebecca is also 16 so there's no age difference. Age isn't a factor here, both are still technically young adults, or just minors. She is a damsel in distress, which usually means a female character that needs saving at all times.That is exactly what happened throughout the Dressrosa arc, and I'm sorry but I don't see a trope called child in distress. Both are technically still children.So your argument is invalid.
Age doesn't equal maturity, as you can tell Vivi is prolly the more mature from the two, even though I could argue that she also suffered a trauma from Crocodile who tried to destroy her country. Not saying that Rebecca's trauma is on the same level as Vivi's but you can definitely say that Rebecca was definitely more scared, and even if we saw her act tough it wasn't convincing.Vivi while weak still gave the impression that she would fight till the bitter end, and I don't get your comment about getting the story before the take over, during and after. Didn't we see in flashbacks Crocodile set up the trap for Cobra, to make him look like he was using the dance powder? Didn't we see the events that unfolded, with Vivi doing her best to try and stop the revolutionaries(including Kohza)? Didn't we see the country being torn apart, and the Revos still deciding to fight? Didn't we see the fall of Crocodile and the aftermath?
I really don't get your point. They both served the same role, which is to get Luffy to fight the main villain, although in Vivi's case she played a much bigger role, and was even closer to the SHs. While the drama with Rebecca and Kyros simply cannot be the only reason Luffy decided to fight DD, with it or without it he would have fought DD, because it was all part of the plan.
If she's a child and was obviously still too scared to do anything, then she should have done just that, do nothing. Instead we saw her get in dangerous situations, and she wasn't even brave about it. Vivi definitely had more backbone than her. In the end her being pushed on the foreground like that was a bad writing decision from Oda, her character was bland and she wasn't even close to the SHs. We're supposed to sympathize with her and her story but all that feels forced, and I could only sympathize with Kyros who lost his wife, and his daughter forgot about him.
No she doesn't remotely come close to being the best written character, she's one of the weakest characters in the entire arc and the series,and that one had quite a few of them. I'm sorry but just saying that doesn't make it close for us to see her in a better light.And lol good luck convincing people of that.If they hate a character who could be seen as better written than her like BB, then it's simply not a matter of who is better written. It's also a matter of tastes, not everyone likes shroud and evil characters like BB.Hmm? I didn't say anything about liking BB, I just commented about the latest posts discussing what kind of characters would join an alliance with BB.
I never talked about age; I tried to convey the niche Rebecca was supposed to have. I meant "child" in the sense of a daughter of someone. Vivi was an independent character who was introduced way before her father, whereas Rebecca was introduced in conjuncture with her father. Their entire purpose was a focus on a certain family among the citizens of Dressrosa, alongside the overview on the entire history of the country (hence the references to the flashbacks); Vivi was a protagonist of that arc. Vivi's flashbacks served to develop her character, Rebecca's flashbacks served to develop the whole Riku family.
Again, they did not serve the same role, aside from being princesses. You're contradicting yourself, you're saying her role was to make Luffy fight the antagonist but then you something else had that role, which just further proves my point.
You're talking about her doing nothing from a reader's standpoint. As a character, we got all the necessary reasons to why she couldn't bear doing nothing. Even if doing nothing is what seems rational to you, you need to think about it from her perspective, as a human, which like all humans, can be overcome with emotions and make irrational decisions.
Just because she was afraid, that makes her a bad character? doing brave things while being afraid is actually very believable.
Again, she shouldn't even be compared to Vivi.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@sanji''s_dad:
People don't seem to understand the main purpose of Rebecca which is why they don't like her you see her main purpose is that she made Usopp's lie come true back in thriller bark during the Gekko moriah arc Usopp woke up Luffy,Sanji and Zoro after they had their shadows taken by saying ''beautiful swordwoman just brought some meat'' woke all 3 of them up even though before they were trying to beat them up to wake them which did not work after they had their shadows taken lol.
She feed Luffy meat after his fight in the arena before she went into the last round which she won by luck she of course fights with a sword in the arena and later on tried to take diamante on with a sharp sword she of course gets her ass kicked and yells for help and she put a dress on at the end of the arc and the people near her said that it made her look beautiful lol.
Kyros is the one that trained her not to kill since he did not want blood on her hands and he felt bad about the person he killed so its not all her fault and that effects her since she holds back a bit since she is afraid she will kill them the only person she did try to kill was diamante who has killed many people,has a devil fruit and more experience and like i said her main purpose is Usopp's lie coming true..
I was analyzing Rebecca from a more literary standpoint, but whatever floats your boat.