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    Official RAW Discussion II

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    • Z
      zeroxtb
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      im curious if they're really going to go into Lucchi's past to a full extent. I'm hoping that they're just slightly extending the blurb on his past that was like, less than a page in the manga. I'd rather not go into LUCCHI'S FILLER ADVENTURE ON CURRY ISLAND or whatever, but at the same time i would like to see more of his past animated

      anyways, 304 was a great episode, and anybody who knows me knows that i am a huge fan of good animation, and this episode didn't disappoint. Buster Call is getting better and better, and pretty much everything else about 304 was good. I really can't wait until the shit starts snowballing even more.

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      • Greg
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        And even if it is cool and doesn´t go against Oda´s ideas it can´t be considered manga canon if it doesn´t appear there.

        Which I agree with if/until Oda says it's specifically what he intended. If we go specifically by what appears in the completed comic, we wouldn't have that cute backstory of Usopp's sniper goggles ^_^

        No matter where you go, there you are.

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          • Greg
            Greg
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            DAMN!

            I don't remember an episode looking that fantastic ever.

            In fact, those scenes with Luffy and Lucci completely trounce almost every scene in Movie 8.

            No matter where you go, there you are.

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            • N
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              Lucci can flick at people and make laser bullets O_o
              kinda reminds me of the "i am crushing your head" guy..
              i wish the rest of the fights were this good o_O and i hope this one lasts like this for a bit..

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              • Ivotas
                Ivotas @Greg
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                @Greg:

                Which I agree with if/until Oda says it's specifically what he intended. If we go specifically by what appears in the completed comic, we wouldn't have that cute backstory of Usopp's sniper goggles ^_^

                There is no if. If it´s not in the manga, then it´s not manga canon regardless of what the authors original intention was. Oda´s original intention was probably also to keep Whitebeards flag as it once was in the manga, but he didn´t. So the changed flag is canon for the vol 45 chapters, while the old one is not. 😉

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                • Greg
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                  There is no if. If it´s not in the manga, then it´s not manga canon regardless of what the authors original intention was. Oda´s original intention was probably also to keep Whitebeards flag as it once was in the manga, but he didn´t. So the changed flag is canon for the vol 45 chapters, while the old one is not. 😉

                  Gonna have to disagree. If the author himself says it happened, it happened. I hold no allegiance to animation, manga or otherwise, simply what the author intends. I ignore the animation for the most part because it isn't as immersive an experience as reading is, but if Oda were to say that animation-only attacks or storylines were ones that he not only created, but also intends as part of his story, then I would start counting them in my site. But since he hasn't, I won't.

                  And naturally I won't accept character designs or scenarios which he collaborates on for the animation because they're just that, a collaborative effort.

                  But if in the future he says within an SBS that the story we see for Lucci is precisely what he intended, then it certainly is. I mean, none of the original information I spent hours posting in the Yellow thread were in the comic. Yet no one seems to have had a hard time accepting them as canon.

                  So the changed flag is canon for the vol 45 chapters, while the old one is not. 😉

                  Sorry, I simply don't see it that way. It's clear he had a purpose for the original and the current flag is the result of outside forces beyond his own decision. I still have the JUMP where he clearly states he was told to change it. While it is part of the story, it's not his original intention.

                  I don't hold such a rigid black vs white belief in canon as 'only trust what's on paper'. I mean if you're seriously going to be that technical, then SBS don't count because they're not drawn panels of the comic either. Nor are the Data books since Oda didn't sit there and write each and every word. But since I believe that data is malleable and is something very much alive which only the author can control, I prefer to trust in what the author says and how they describe their world. I don't think it's that odd of an idea but maybe that's just me.

                  No matter where you go, there you are.

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                  • Ivotas
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                    Well I guess we can agree to disagree here. If it didn´t happen in the manga, it simply didn´t happen for me. Black on White >>>>> Idea, is by what I go.

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                    • S
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                      I saw the episode on youtube. Finally,gear 3rd comes out.The episode 305 will show the story of Lucci.

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                      • joesephes
                        joesephes @Buuhan1
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                        @Buuhan1:

                        OMG!!!!!! :shocked: :shocked:

                        I gotta tell ya, If they can up with this much animation for the rest of the fight as well as every other fight after this, I will…...well I don't know what I'll do but it will be something crazy! Also that giant pistol attack on Lucci at the end is pure ownage! 😁

                        As for the preview, young Lucci looks pretty cool for a 13 year old.

                        THE NICO ROBIN: ROKUSHIKI PROJECT

                        Go here for the project and here for the thread! (UPDATE 10/18/20)

                        *THE HUAQUANDAO STYLE PROJECT

                        Go here or here (UPDATE 05/10/14)

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                        • T
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                          Saiyaman Released 298-301 in HD
                          http://bt.saiyaman.info/

                          Originally Posted by SSM

                          Toni, no offense, but you must be the most plain user on the forum. Your posts, your avatar, everything. You're like the Ishamaru of Arlong Park.

                          That totally came out of nowhere.

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                          • Greg
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                            If it didn´t happen in the manga, it simply didn´t happen for me

                            So if Oda were to say clearly in the SBS that the next episode's events were his idea, you wouldn't accept it?

                            By that logic, are the VA's still nameless and DF's like Beri Beri no Mi, Sabi Sabi no Mi and Shari Shari no Mi still nameless?

                            No matter where you go, there you are.

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                            • S
                              Skull Kid @-Luffy-
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                              I really wish the episode had left this top scene in.

                              http://img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=onepiece42117it1.png

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                              • RomanGod
                                RomanGod @Skull Kid
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                                @Skull:

                                I really wish the episode had left this top scene in.

                                http://img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=onepiece42117it1.png

                                They did. It just happened real quick and Lucchi wasn't in the shot. But it's the part where Luffy finally charges at Lucchi with his big fist coming towards the screen.

                                Everything was all for nothing

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                                  cant wait for more gear 3 next week

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                                  • normyk
                                    normyk @RomanGod
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                                    Ok, that episode was just awesome. I hope they can keep this level of quality in the next ep. This fight deserves the best.

                                    And you can dream - So dream out loud

                                    normyk's chocolate blog!

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                                    • S
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                                      @RomanGod:

                                      They did. It just happened real quick and Lucchi wasn't in the shot. But it's the part where Luffy finally charges at Lucchi with his big fist coming towards the screen.

                                      Nevermind. Its there, its just goes extremely fast and that one panel is only there for like two or three frames and not at the same angle.

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                                      • boiga
                                        boiga @Skull Kid
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                                        Wow. That was the first time I've actually watched raw episode of the anime all the way through. It was gold. I mean that gigant pistol was something else. I kind of wish they'd skipped the repeated scenes of burning EL just to have a slow mo 30 second shot of that that fist breaking out of that tower.

                                        Actually, I really really wouldn't mind a deeper back story for lucci than we got in the manga. It is quite likely that Oda had lucci's entire history planned out in his head but never had the opportunity to fit it into the manga because at that point the readers were getting desperate to see the end fight and start a new arc.

                                        If Oda simply wrote out a brief summary about how rob lucci really became the sadistic mass murdering tool of justice that he is and handed it to the toei people, I could see them doing a decent job with a background episode or two. It beats samurai luffy or hallucinogenic sea horses anyways.

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                                        • Ivotas
                                          Ivotas @Greg
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                                          @Greg:

                                          So if Oda were to say clearly in the SBS that the next episode's events were his idea, you wouldn't accept it?

                                          You don´t get what I meant don´t you? If it didn´t happen in the manga it didn´t happen in the manga regardless of his intention. I don´t see what´s so hard to understand about that statement.

                                          By that logic, are the VA's still nameless and DF's like Beri Beri no Mi, Sabi Sabi no Mi and Shari Shari no Mi still nameless?

                                          Wow, VA´s and DF´s have been given names. That surely changes my whole look on those chapters. Seriously, that info might be nice to know additional but with or without this names the story is pretty much the same. Names and events are two different kinds of things. Keeping a character unnamed doesn´t change the story much (if it changes it at all) but leaving events out or adding them makes it different as it could have been.

                                          Perhaps a little example would be helpful to explain what I consider so different between names and events…

                                          ! If for instance in the upcoming episodes the Strawhats fight with the 200 would be like this, that while nameless Captain falls into pieces, Franky goes "what the hell?" and then Robin explains it like "That is Marine HQ Captain Very-Good. He has the ability of the Beri Beri no Mi" then not only would I consider that an anime screw up, but also would that event happen clearly as it didn´t happen in the manga. It is manga canon that nobody knew their names. If we readers found that out outside of the story it doesn´t change the fact that within the story they are kept secret.

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                                          • Greg
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                                            Wow, VA´s and DF´s have been given names. That surely changes my whole look on those chapters.

                                            Aha, the crux of the matter.

                                            Now you're saying that your outlook of the chapter would be changed if Oda's originally intended story was added to the next episode. How is this so? The events are the same, they're merely expanded upon. In fact, we'll probably see a few extra scenes explaining why he did what he did.

                                            How is that different than knowing about additional DF's and their abilities? It's exactly the same as you described above, it's additional information that changes nothing nor is it saying that within the story X character knows these facts. In fact, it's literally no different from Yellow expanding upon information like DF names, the naming of Mihawk's sword, explanation of WB's crew numbers, etc.

                                            And if you're agreeing that it's manga canon that nobody knows these facts (from Oda) in the comic book, then I don't see why you can't accept that nobody knows these facts about Lucci in the comic as well and it's merely being fully explained for the reader.

                                            I get your point precisely and I'm not trying to change your opinion or anything, but by such logic that only the information that appears within the boundary of the actual comic is to be believed as canon storyline, then why bother reading anything else the author has to say about the story if it doesn't affect it or is inadmissable in your view?

                                            I just can't imagine taking the actual author for granted or ignoring what he would say about his own story that belongs to him.

                                            I mean it's like Oda saying, "Yeah, the Strawhats actually had a brief adventure between LG and Drum while at sea that involved Sea Monkeys." And then you saying, "That's impossible and unacceptable since you didn't draw it."

                                            No matter where you go, there you are.

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                                            • A
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                                              Very happy to see Toei did some justice to Gear 3 in the latest episode, here is to hope they keep it up.

                                              Regarding next ep. and Lucci's past, personally I don't care much and if they gonna add some new stuff, I REALLY hope they are more creative than the "he used to be a pacifist but then his friend/family/important one got killed by pirates so he went berserk" routine.

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                                              • Ivotas
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                                                @ Greg:

                                                I edited this post because it failed at ending this discussion as I originally planned for it. Therefore I redirect you to my next post right below Mog´s post. I hope that especially the bottom part is formulated good enough to get the reason across why I´m reserved on calling something canon that didn´t appear in the manga even if the author says that´s what he had in mind.

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                                                • Mog
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                                                  Usopp buying his goggles wasn't in the manga, so you say it never happened?

                                                  I'm really trying to get what you're saying here Ivotas, but it's either really stupid or you're playing with technicalities.

                                                  By your logic, anything that happens offscreen never happened to begin with. Meaning no one ever takes a shit in One Piece or anything.

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                                                  • Ivotas
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                                                    Lol, I guess the "can we end it now´s" make people ask for more.
                                                    Of course he got his googles in the off time. That is a fact because he didn´t have them before. But how he got them is something I only take as manga canon as long as I see it in the manga (perhaps in a flashback).

                                                    Why am I so anal on that matter? Because something that only appears outside of the story (in interviews for instance) can be negated within the story if the author decides to flesh a certain part out later on in the story.

                                                    I´ll try to explain it with an example: Lets say Oda decides to completely create a new backstory on Usopp goggles. And this story appears in the manga through an Usopp flashback of Loguetown. That flashback would a) negate the previous story, b) wouldn´t be a contradiction because the previous story never was in the manga and c) it would be in manga canon.

                                                    Maybe the real reason why I´m so anal about that is because writers often change stuff. In fact those "I originally had blah blah blah in mind" are countless in each fictional work. We only don´t get introduced to each. And even if some of them go well with the story and don´t contradict it, there´s always the possibility that they will eventually get proven wrong if the author wants to change it. And Oda surely must have made lots of changes respectively will make even more changes. He may not change stuff to contradict manga canon, but if he would write stuff that negates the ideas in his mind, then it wouldn´t be a manga canon contradiction but just another shapfeshifting idea.

                                                    That might not be the way how the majority here thinks, but to me that is the reason why only in story stuff is what I consider canon. And just as I said in the beginning of this post, it is canon that Usopp got new goggles in Loguetown. HOW he got them has an explenation outside of the manga but the possibility of receiving a completely new one is still there. I mean Oda originally wanted to make Zoro part of Buggy´s crew so it´s not like him switching ideas is something that I made up on my own. That´s why take manga canon like that.

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                                                    • Mog
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                                                      That's cute but has nothing to do with this. Your discussion was about facts, not ''ideas'' which you're expounding on now, and how you apparently reject stuff revealed in SBS's or data books because it wasn't in the manga. Not ''interviews'' or anything.

                                                      Which is still stupid, sorry.

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                                                      • Ivotas
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                                                        Huh, perhaps you skipped that part, but the entire discussion is based on the Rucchi flashback where Oda in an interview said (at least thats how I understood it) that he wanted to flesh it a bit out in the manga but didn´t do it. The SBS´s and Data file books weren´t added from my side and I didn´t negate them. The only thing I said about them is that what they reveal doesn´t change the storytelling which is a fact. Get your facts straight before you accuse me of adding interviews late in the discussion. 😛

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                                                        • Mog
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                                                          You said if it didn't happen in the manga it isn't canon and when Greg brought up databooks and SBS's you blatantly said you disagreed with him.

                                                          I'm sorry if I misunderstood anything but the only way you'd be making sense from that point of view is if you were talking to yourself the entire time or something.

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                                                          • boiga
                                                            boiga @Mog
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                                                            Well, Ivotas does have a point.

                                                            It would be a mistake to base predictions of future events in the manga off of things revealed only in the anime or sbs. For example, I really doubt any of the unrevealed yonkou or shichibukai devil fruit abilities will be the "stupid joke fruit" or the "really disgusting fruit" as described in the sbs. Similarly I would find it very very odd if air dragons were a fundamentally important aspect of crossing the red line or making it to Raftel.

                                                            I think both sides of this argument have some validity. Obviously there are a lot of bogus elements added to the one piece world in the anime and movies. The kinds of devil fruits used in these don't fit in particularly well with the patterns of devil fruits seen in the manga. It's hard to square a "candy" or "clear liquid" logia when all of the manga logia are basic forces of nature. There are other times where the time line in the anime clash es distinctly with the timeline in the manga, such as the g8 saga. It is fair to argue that in any conflict about general Odaverse mechanics, timeline of events, or other such discrepancy between the manga and the other One Piece media, the manga should be given precedence.

                                                            On the other hand, some of the better designed filler episodes or movies don't conflict with the strictly manga canon. When this is the case, there is no reason to debate which is the proper history and which isn't because there is only one relation of those particular events. So, if toei wants to flesh out Lucci's back story in manner that does not conflict with anything we have or will see in the manga, I see no reason not to consider that a valid addition to the one piece world. After all, if the manga never denies it we can't know it didn't happen.

                                                            So in summary, if it contradicts the manga, the manga is right. But if it doesn't contradict the manga then why not consider it a part of the story until we know otherwise?

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                                                            • Ivotas
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                                                              @Mog:

                                                              You said if it didn't happen in the manga it isn't canon and when Greg brought up databooks and SBS's you blatantly said you disagreed with him.

                                                              I'm sorry if I misunderstood anything but the only way you'd be making sense from that point of view is if you were talking to yourself the entire time or something.

                                                              I see. That´s not how it was, or at least not how I meant it. The examples Greg brought were names revealed in the Data Books or SBS´s. And I took them for something different then interview stuff as the Rucchi backstory thing that started everything because of one reason, name revelations don´t influence the story telling. For instance if we look back on the VA´s now, knowing their names doesn´t change anything about how the story progressed while they were in it. We only can refer to them by name, that´s all.

                                                              If I made it sounds as if this information doesn´t mean anything, then I´m sorry for making you or anyone else think so, because that´s not what I meant to say. I mean if a character is unnamed in the manga then it is obvious that he/she has a name in the story (even though we don´t know it), that´s why there´s no problem taking the name a File Book or an SBS reveals, since it doesn´t infect the story at all. But if an interview contains information about what could/should have been in the story, then I personally have problems accepting it as manga canon because due to changes it can still be undone and proven wrong.

                                                              That´s all that is to it. The whole thing started with the "can we consider the additional Rucchi flashback scenes as canon?" which I responded to as "no", because of the reasons I hope I got across. I didn´t mean to say that File Book/SBS´s name revelations don´t mean jack.

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                                                                lucci face when he gets hit is priceless.
                                                                i glad there doing the backstory which was brief in the manga. i think if lucci didnt do tekkei he wouldn't have made it.

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                                                                  Skull Kid @Ivotas
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                                                                  I think that any information Oda gives as fact should be considered part of the "official One Piece storyline", but not as part of the manga. I wouldn't count his joke answers for anything though. So it depends if your taking canon to mean anything Oda says regarding the One Piece universe or strictly what happens in the manga. Also, to me anything Toei comes up with to cover or flesh out unexplained/undetailed events in the manga is a sort of place holder, which I use in the place of canon until Oda says something different. Like the whole Usopp goggles thing and the Zoro meets Johnny and Usako episode.

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                                                                  • Buuhan1
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                                                                    I hate to insult you, Ivotas. But is is kinda idiotic you aren't taking words out of the mouth of the actual author seriously just cause he didn't fit it into the manga. If he says it is what he intended, it is canon. Accept it.

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                                                                    • Greg
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                                                                      Huh, perhaps you skipped that part, but the entire discussion is based on the Rucchi flashback where Oda in an interview said (at least thats how I understood it) that he wanted to flesh it a bit out in the manga but didn´t do it.

                                                                      Right, now, I'm saying what if Oda were to say 6 months from now, the events in the animation where exactly what he intended and not only that he intended them, but they actually transpired. You still wouldn't count it?

                                                                      The SBS´s and Data file books weren´t added from my side and I didn´t negate them. The only thing I said about them is that what they reveal doesn´t change the storytelling which is a fact.

                                                                      Exactly, they expand upon known facts. Thus, how would knowing why Lucci did what he did be any different from a Data Book giving us a name for something we already know? It's not changing what he did in the comic. We'd simply be learning the 'why'.

                                                                      Maybe the real reason why I´m so anal about that is because writers often change stuff. In fact those "I originally had blah blah blah in mind" are countless in each fictional work. We only don´t get introduced to each. And even if some of them go well with the story and don´t contradict it, there´s always the possibility that they will eventually get proven wrong if the author wants to change it.

                                                                      Zoro being a member of Buggy's crew and the idea of facts being contradicted down the path are a completely different issue. They're what they intended, not what they've said/drawn that has come to pass. For instance, the goggles scene has become accepted and even referrenced by Oda purely to bring us up to speed. Now as you said, should something come along later to contradict it, then surely what didn't appear is to be nixed. But this brings up the question, why would an author like Oda go against something that he clearly made a point of noting to fans and referrencing time and again unless it was from an outside force? Oda saying what he intended and what actually happened are two different things and while I totally agree that 'intended' and what 'actually happened' are two entirely different issues, if he makes a point of noting it to fans and says point blank, "It happened this way.", then who are we to go against him? Until/if he changes the story later on in some way that contradicts the story (ie. WB's sign) then that's all we have to go on.

                                                                      And Oda surely must have made lots of changes respectively will make even more changes. He may not change stuff to contradict manga canon, but if he would write stuff that negates the ideas in his mind, then it wouldn´t be a manga canon contradiction but just another shapfeshifting idea.

                                                                      I agree that he has/will make changes to the story by both his own and outside forces. But until he changes it we only have his words to go by and until he does change it then we can/must trust his words as said canon.

                                                                      I'm not trying to be a prick, I'm just still not sure how we can't trust the author when they say X or Y transpired. I see canon coming from the author's mouth innocent until proven guilty.

                                                                      No matter where you go, there you are.

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                                                                      • Cap'n Carter
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                                                                        Cap'n Carter
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                                                                        So… was the spring special already released? I wanted to see that.

                                                                        the bigot who thinks being an asshole is actually worth shit

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                                                                        • Greg
                                                                          Greg
                                                                          Envoy
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                                                                          Greg
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                                                                          Greg
                                                                          Envoy
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                                                                          Yes. It's fantabulous for a OP special.

                                                                          No matter where you go, there you are.

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                                                                          • op74
                                                                            op74 @Greg
                                                                            @Greg last edited by
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                                                                            op74
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                                                                            The manga is not always right cause did't Oda say he got the years wrong for the Franky flashback or was that a scanlation mistake . If they add the DF's names to those two then I will say it is right cause Oda said so. If they add something he has not talked about then I will say it is "filler" .

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                                                                            • Ivotas
                                                                              Ivotas @Greg
                                                                              @Greg last edited by
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                                                                              @Buuhan1:

                                                                              I hate to insult you, Ivotas. But is is kinda idiotic you aren't taking words out of the mouth of the actual author seriously just cause he didn't fit it into the manga. If he says it is what he intended, it is canon. Accept it.

                                                                              I find it funny how it is always the short posts that always respond to a whole post of mine rather then to specifi parts that use terms like "idiotic" and "stupid". Shows that you guys rather like to fly over it then actually read and at least try to understand my reasoning behind it. I already explained why I´m reserved on ideas that can be undone in the future as long as they are not printed black on white. It may not be the way you guys see things but labeling it with insulting terms only showcases your ignorance and intolerance. You don´t have to agree with me but you can at least try to understand my reasoning behind it. I also don´t insult Gregs view, I just don´t agree with it.

                                                                              @Greg:

                                                                              Right, now, I'm saying what if Oda were to say 6 months from now, the events in the animation where exactly what he intended and not only that he intended them, but they actually transpired. You still wouldn't count it?

                                                                              I would be reserved on them. Seriously I think I said everything I said. I don´t say they count for nothing, but as long as something still can be undone in the future I´m not calling it die-hard canon. It may add ascpects to my understanding of the story but I don´t call it canon.

                                                                              I'm not trying to be a prick, I'm just still not sure how we can't trust the author when they say X or Y transpired. I see canon coming from the author's mouth innocent until proven guilty.

                                                                              That´s why I said we can agree to disagree here. I take everything for canon that can´t be undone. If something follows the (unwritten) idea of the author then I don´t take it as part of the story.

                                                                              And I won´t most definitely take an anime filler as manga canon. This is the anime we´re talking about here. The same anime that occationally totally butchers up that we HAVE seen in the manga (in other words stuff that the author wrote). I don´t see why (if they can screw up manga canon) I should have complete faith that filler scenes will be exactly as Oda wanted them. I´m not taking them for canon. It´s my right to do so.

                                                                              @op74:

                                                                              The manga is not always right cause did't Oda say he got the years wrong for the Franky flashback or was that a scanlation mistake . If they add the DF's names to those two then I will say it is right cause Oda said so. If they add something he has not talked about then I will say it is "filler" .

                                                                              About the scanslation mistake - Yes and no would be the answer here. The translation was accurate at first because the mistake was in the JUMP chapter itself. However in the later release of the volume the mistake got edited and the years made perfect sense again (I think it was an 8 that got replaced for 12). So in the end the scanslation itself didn´t get edited and therefore isn´t accurate anymore. But it´s not the scanslators mistake to begin with.

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                                                                              • Greg
                                                                                Greg
                                                                                Envoy
                                                                                last edited by
                                                                                Greg
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                                                                                Greg
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                                                                                I take everything for canon that can´t be undone.

                                                                                Which begs the question if the series ends and doesn't address/debunk it, what would you have to say about it?

                                                                                I don´t see why (if they can screw up manga canon) I should have complete faith that filler scenes will be exactly as Oda wanted them.

                                                                                But that's the thing see….what if Oda says it is?

                                                                                I´m not taking them for canon. It´s my right to do so.

                                                                                I'm not sure if I'm attempting to deny you of any rights but I know I'm just trying to understand why you would go against what an author says about their own work and think you know more about it than he/she does.

                                                                                You make an excellent point about the possibility that things added after the fact have potential to mess things up. But…if the creator/god of that universe tells us how it is, I dunno how we can take it otherwise.

                                                                                No matter where you go, there you are.

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                                                                                • Ivotas
                                                                                  Ivotas @Greg
                                                                                  @Greg last edited by
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                                                                                  Ivotas
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                                                                                  @Greg:

                                                                                  Which begs the question if the series ends and doesn't address/debunk it, what would you have to say about it?

                                                                                  Then I´d accept it because the possibility of getting negated doesn´t exist anymore. I bet you thought I would say I´d still don´t accept it huh? 👅

                                                                                  But that's the thing see….what if Oda says it is?

                                                                                  It still wouldn´t be manga canon. And it still holds the possibility of getting negated in the manga at some point. I know myself that it is very unlikely but its not impossible and therefore I´m so reserved.

                                                                                  I'm not sure if I'm attempting to deny you of any rights but I know I'm just trying to understand why you would go against what an author says about their own work and think you know more about it than he/she does.

                                                                                  Whoa, hold it right there. Where did I say I know more about the story then he does? I never said that. I´m just not going to weight outside story elements as much as inside story elements, even if the author says something because authors really change lots of stuff thanks to creative brainstorming. Us readers just don´t get informed about every little mindfart a creator has but it is definitely there. Authors just are like that. And "I originally had … in mind" things are mostly stuff that can get changed, negated or whatsoever.

                                                                                  You make an excellent point about the possibility that things added after the fact have potential to mess things up. But…if the creator/god of that universe tells us how it is, I dunno how we can take it otherwise.

                                                                                  Ok then I´ll use a little example. Lets say Oda says he always had in mind that Smoker was present as a kid during Rogers execution as we saw it in the anime. Even moreso, the anime created that filler scene exactly as Oda envisioned it back then. But then somewhere in the final arc if Smoker appears there, he receives a flashback in which it clearly gets said that he never was at Loguetown before he wasn´t sent there as a Marine Captain. In that case the filler would negate manga canon, even though it originally was based on the authors idea.

                                                                                  I´m not saying that what the author, the creator, the god of the story says is wrong. Never. What I say is that I´m reserved on accepting it as die hard canon in the same manner as stuff that is there and can´t be undone. I mean years are passing in the making of the story. One brilliant brainstorm can change things. As long as it doesn´t contradict the previous installed story elements it is possible. Oda might have the big issues planned all along. But the little things in between I´m sure are objects then can change spontaneously.

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                                                                                  • N
                                                                                    N-Anti @Greg
                                                                                    @Greg last edited by
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                                                                                    I presumed this thread was about discussing RAWS, not filler from ages back.

                                                                                    Guess I was wrong.

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                                                                                    • S
                                                                                      SakuraDestiny
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                                                                                      SakuraDestiny
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                                                                                      The upcoming release schedule is out (http://pc.webnt.jp/anime/detail0103110407.html). Here it is with my [rough, imperfect] translations of the titles:

                                                                                      305 (4/15) 戦慄の過去! 闇の正義とロブ・ルッチ
                                                                                      The Terrible Past! Dark Justice and Rob Lucci

                                                                                      306 (4/22) 幻の人魚現る? 薄れゆく意識のなかで
                                                                                      The Illusion of a Mermaid is Present? Consciousness is Fading

                                                                                      307 (4/29) 砲火に沈む島! フランキー無念の叫び
                                                                                      The Island that Sinks to Gunfire! The Cry of Franky's Regret

                                                                                      308 (5/6) ルフィを待て! ためらいの橋の死闘!
                                                                                      Wait for Luffy! Fight to the Death on the Bridge of Hesitation!

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                                                                                      • F
                                                                                        fps_anth
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                                                                                        fps_anth
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                                                                                        Ahh, so it looks like the Lucci flash back will only occur in one episode. Looks like Enies Lobby might be wrapped up by…310 if there's no filler.

                                                                                        Originally Posted by Greg

                                                                                        Believe is song ripped from a dance craze that involves women in as little clothing as possible and crazy sex. The only thing happy-go-lucky about it is my cock.

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                                                                                        • Daz
                                                                                          Daz
                                                                                          Warlord Mod
                                                                                          last edited by
                                                                                          Daz
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                                                                                          Daz
                                                                                          Warlord Mod
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                                                                                          Looking at that schedule, it seems like they will expand heavily on the action scenes, like they expanded in 304. I mean, this looks like well have just a little more than a 1 chapter - 1 episode relation.
                                                                                          Which I think sucks.

                                                                                          Because I didn't think 304 was all that great. Sure, the animation was top notch (Luccis kamisori looked infinetely cooler), and Gear 3 was as great at it should be - but everything else felt like a completely different fight than the manga.
                                                                                          A lot of the time normal Luffy does better against Leopard Lucci than against normal Lucci, who handed him his ass in the previous episodes. And all of the blood is gone. Don't get me wrong, I'm no sadist, but this episode makes it seem like Luffys' skin is totally immune to Bacchis' and Rankyakus'; He didn't even get a scratch!
                                                                                          And instead of the Bacchi-drive by we had in the manga, we just have what loks like Lucci speeding around a sleeping Luffy throwing pebbles at him.
                                                                                          And finally, Rokushiki appearantly now includes shooting fireballs. Strange.

                                                                                          In short, this just makes me fear for the pacing of the rest of the Luffy vs. Lucci fight.

                                                                                          /rant

                                                                                          Ramza Quexinos 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                                          • Ramza
                                                                                            Ramza @Daz
                                                                                            @Daz last edited by
                                                                                            Ramza
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                                                                                            Ramza
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                                                                                            @The:

                                                                                            Looking at that schedule, it seems like they will expand heavily on the action scenes, like they expanded in 304. I mean, this looks like well have just a little more than a 1 chapter - 1 episode relation.
                                                                                            Which I think sucks.

                                                                                            Because I didn't think 304 was all that great. Sure, the animation was top notch (Luccis kamisori looked infinetely cooler), and Gear 3 was as great at it should be - but everything else felt like a completely different fight than the manga.
                                                                                            A lot of the time normal Luffy does better against Leopard Lucci than against normal Lucci, who handed him his ass in the previous episodes. And all of the blood is gone. Don't get me wrong, I'm no sadist, but this episode makes it seem like Luffys' skin is totally immune to Bacchis' and Rankyakus'; He didn't even get a scratch!
                                                                                            And instead of the Bacchi-drive by we had in the manga, we just have what loks like Lucci speeding around a sleeping Luffy throwing pebbles at him.
                                                                                            And finally, Rokushiki appearantly now includes shooting fireballs. Strange.

                                                                                            In short, this just makes me fear for the pacing of the rest of the Luffy vs. Lucci fight.

                                                                                            /rant

                                                                                            lol and why those pebbles dont get bounced back XD

                                                                                            Brawl Name: Ramza

                                                                                            Brawl Code: 1805-1932-2783

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                                                                                            • Demon Rin
                                                                                              Demon Rin
                                                                                              last edited by
                                                                                              Demon Rin
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                                                                                              Demon Rin
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                                                                                              I don't see Luffy doing any Better, all I see is him Trying to do better at one point, then Lucchi Soru-ing behind him and starting to totally own him. Everything that happened other than that odd exchange of fists in the beginning Happened in the Manga. Luffy WAS doing well against him (at least he was able to grapple him) but Tekkai always stopped his fist in Normal Mode. and So what? They added a few more Bachis and that Fire one was odd. But it Actually shows Luffy doing BETTER against Lucchi in the Manga, he's even able to Stop a Rankyaku there.

                                                                                              Switch Friend Code: SW-1795-2519-1884 • Click Here to check out my Twitch Channel

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                                                                                              • GrizzlayLeslay
                                                                                                GrizzlayLeslay
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                                                                                                GrizzlayLeslay
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                                                                                                GrizzlayLeslay
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                                                                                                They sure are taking their sweet goddamn time finishing this arc. . .just finish it and give us another good filler arc, then get back to the manga chapters later. . .jeez.

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                                                                                                • Z
                                                                                                  Zulen
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                                                                                                  Apparently, all the focus in this episode went straight to Gear 3 and the short exchange of blows between Luffy and Lucci. Pretty ridiculous if you ask me, because some of the frames were just God Awful. Like, say, this one for instance.

                                                                                                  Someone needs to make an avatar about this guy ASAP!

                                                                                                  Seriously, what's up with this? And they kept showing the same pan of a burning Enies Lobby across the screen over and over. They must've reused each Enies Lobby burning explosion cannon scene 5 times throughout the entire episode. If Toei wasn't a complete retard, they'd stick with the animators if Oda Boss Luffy Oyabun (and 273) while switching to Movie 6 style for the action sequences. As a fan of Movie 6, I really enjoyed that 20 seconds.

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                                                                                                  • S
                                                                                                    Skull Kid @Zulen
                                                                                                    @Zulen last edited by
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                                                                                                    Skull Kid
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                                                                                                    @Private:

                                                                                                    Apparently, all the focus in this episode went straight to Gear 3 and the short exchange of blows between Luffy and Lucci. Pretty ridiculous if you ask me, because some of the frames were just God Awful. Like, say, this one for instance.

                                                                                                    http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/6872/vlcsnap3531801jh7.png

                                                                                                    Someone needs to make an avatar about this guy ASAP!

                                                                                                    http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/5126/ohgodkk2.png

                                                                                                    Seriously, what's up with this? And they kept showing the same pan of a burning Enies Lobby across the screen over and over. They must've reused each Enies Lobby burning explosion cannon scene 5 times throughout the entire episode. If Toei wasn't a complete retard, they'd stick with the animators if Oda Boss Luffy Oyabun (and 273) while switching to Movie 6 style for the action sequences. As a fan of Movie 6, I really enjoyed that 20 seconds.

                                                                                                    The movie 6 animation looks like it was done by someone on drugs. I can't imagine anything from that fitting with the normal series. I haven't seen enough of it to know what 20 seconds your talking about though.

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                                                                                                    • F
                                                                                                      fps_anth @Zulen
                                                                                                      @Zulen last edited by
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                                                                                                      fps_anth
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                                                                                                      @Private:

                                                                                                      Apparently, all the focus in this episode went straight to Gear 3 and the short exchange of blows between Luffy and Lucci. Pretty ridiculous if you ask me, because some of the frames were just God Awful. Like, say, this one for instance.

                                                                                                      http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/6872/vlcsnap3531801jh7.png

                                                                                                      Someone needs to make an avatar about this guy ASAP!

                                                                                                      http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/5126/ohgodkk2.png

                                                                                                      Seriously, what's up with this? And they kept showing the same pan of a burning Enies Lobby across the screen over and over. They must've reused each Enies Lobby burning explosion cannon scene 5 times throughout the entire episode. If Toei wasn't a complete retard, they'd stick with the animators if Oda Boss Luffy Oyabun (and 273) while switching to Movie 6 style for the action sequences. As a fan of Movie 6, I really enjoyed that 20 seconds.

                                                                                                      Everytime I rewatch 304, I skip right to the Lucci vs. Luffy part. I noticed that bad animation as well. In fact, almost all of the animation with Spandam on the bridge was pretty god-awful.

                                                                                                      Originally Posted by Greg

                                                                                                      Believe is song ripped from a dance craze that involves women in as little clothing as possible and crazy sex. The only thing happy-go-lucky about it is my cock.

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                                                                                                      • S
                                                                                                        Super Puppy @Skull Kid
                                                                                                        @Skull Kid last edited by
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                                                                                                        Super Puppy
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                                                                                                        @Skull:

                                                                                                        The movie 6 animation looks like it was done by someone on drugs. I can't imagine anything from that fitting with the normal series. I haven't seen enough of it to know what 20 seconds your talking about though.

                                                                                                        The movie six animation was different, to be sure, but I don't think it was terrible. It seemed like it was bad because the animation style was so different from the original, but really the animation was pretty quality. The fighting scenes and movement were very smooth as well. Don't get me wrong, though, I still like the original animation better. Okay, much better.

                                                                                                        Click here for the best Pokemon fanfiction ever written!

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