Who was Roger and Mihawk's final opponent, and the former Pirate King

[FireFistAce 0]

Okay, so Whitebeard is the Strongest man in the world, Post Mortem Roger. Mihawk is the current Best Swordsman in the World.

Now, Mihawk is fairly young, probably about Shank's age (Late 30's, early 40's). Whitebeard looks to be about mid 50's - 60's.

Because of the implications of becoming Pirate King, Roger most likely had to best every great opponent of his decade. Mihawk too, had to best the greatest swordsman of the time in order to gain the title.

So I got to thinking about all the people that have spoken openly about Roger, and I wonder if, rather than being a part of his crew, they were his opponents?

Let's look at who we have:

Zeff: A strong pirate with legendary fighting skills. This one is difficult because Zeff's tenure on the Grand Line was long after Roger had died. But Zeff's age fits; perhaps he was an opponent of Roger's while both were in East Blue?

Crocus: Crocus has been with Laboon for 50 years (supposedly). I believe he says he's 73-74, so what was he doing in the first 23-24 years of his life that earned him control of the Twin Capes Lighthouse? Roger was probably a kid when Crocus was this young, but from what we see of Young Crocus, he's pretty fit. Perhaps at one time, Crocus played gatekeeper to the Grand Line, fighting whoever entered, and only those that beat him could pass? It's plausible, but then again, maybe not.

Kureha: She's 120 years old. IIRC, she states she was returning to Drum Island after having left for a few years to Hiruluk during Chopper's backstory. Perhaps she was asssisting Roger, or perhaps she was just trying to hinder him and failed. Though in Kureha's case, I think she actually was his nakama.

Hiruluk: Former thief who saw a mariacle and came back changed. Perhaps in addition to the sakura trees, Roger helped him change his ways?

Crocodile: Now, here, I believe Crocodile was a cabin boy on Roger's crew like Shanks. A kid with big aspirations. But either through bad luck or something like a Davy Back fight, he lost everything and lost his spirit.

Belle-Mere: This one is tough. Bellemere participated in a battle 17 years ago, but before that, who can say? Maybe she was part of Garp's squad back in Roger's day.

Tom: Well, this one is obvious, but Tom was a nakama, not an enemy. But who knows? Perhaps Tom made Roger fight him before agreeing to build the ship; after all, Luffy fought Franky.

Gan Forr: Perhaps Roger wanted to test his strength against "God". I bet Gan Forr was a pretty badass fighter in his prime.

Zoro's Sensei: This is for Mihawk. Perhaps Zoro's Sensei was the former "World's Greatest Swordsman", and Mihawk took the title from him? He did, after all, teach Zoro the techniques that were key to becoming greater.

Okay, now to the obvious ones: Garp, Sengoku, Whitebeard. Of these three men, who was the FINAL opponent for Roger? Most of you instinctively say "Whitebeard", but if that was the case, why would Whitebeard not have One Piece 22 years later? If he was the final obstacle, he would have been able to reach Raftel and confront Roger before he could claim the final treasure. Which is the reason I think it was Sengoku, if I had to pick from those 3.

But then, one must wonder if there was a former Pirate King: A man unsurpassed by anyone until Roger came and finally defeated him. Now, unlike my other theories, I'm not even going to suggest it's something silly like Davy Jones or whatnot. A living, breathing, flesh person fought Roger and that was Roger's final opponent. There can be no argument that this final battle took place on Raftel. If there was indeed a former Pirate King, then there's no question that Roger was Pirate King after his defeat. If he was simply the World's strongest man, then his defeat by Roger gave him an uncontested title.

But that makes it too easy. If Roger and Whitebeard could tie, then Whitebeard could have defeated this "World's Strongest Man" just as easily as Roger. So no, this man had to be something more than just that. A former Pirate King.

And when the story gets to the New World, we may just find the truth about the Pirate King before Roger, if one truly exists.

But I think it does.

[Kaze no Barako]

Mm. It bothers me that someone who "evenly matched with Roger" hasn't obtained One Piece, his goal, in the 22 years since Roger's death, the man who was (as we've seen so far) his only obstacle outside of the World Government.

That leads me to think that perhaps Roger was the sole owner of some information that's very important to finding One Piece? It -was- his treasure after all, but it seems very strange that Whitebeard, the "world's strongest man" isn't going after Roger's former nakama in pursuit of information leading to One Piece.

Obviously he's injured, but shit, if you can split the heavens with an ordinary opening move in battle, it shouldn't be so hard to go after One Piece. Yeah I know that could have been Shanks, or maybe a combination of both of their power, but still. Damn.

Oh yes, and I'm sure Kureha had something to do with Roger, or at least another D, how else would she know about the Will of D? I'm sure she's hiding tons of things that we probably won't find out about until much, much later in the story.

Crocodile, I doubt it. If he'd been Roger's nakama, I get the feeling he wouldn't have ended up so corrupt. That's my opinion, anyway.

Hiruluk, I'm not really sure. Whatever it was, I don't think we'll find out about it, and if we do, it won't be until the events leading up to Chopper's Sixth Person chapter.

We don't know much about Zoro's sensei either, though I guess it could be possible. It does seem a bit strange that his daughter would have so much ambition at such a young age, if she got it from her father, that'd clear it up a bit. I'm sure we'll hear more about Kuina (and perhaps Zoro's past and his sensei) the more we see of Tashigi.

Gan Fall, I'm sure him and Roger at least sparred a couple times. They were sort of friends, right? I'm sure they wanted to test their strength against each other, as warriors.

Crocus, hoshit it's been so long since I went through that part of the anime. I haven't even read that part of the manga, maybe I should read through it sometime. I have no idea, though we know he at least MET Roger, right?

Tom, I guess it's possible. They must have had some kind of connection for Tom to agree to build the man a ship. I'm sure he was pretty notorious by then.

Zeff, I've got no clue. There's no sign of him anywhere except Baratie so far, and he hasn't been brought up in the story since then at all, except when Sanji got his bounty. I know he has to have SOME importance in the future, but as for any connections with Roger, I really don't know. There really isn't enough evidence to suggest that.

I doubt there actually WAS a Pirate King before Roger, I'm pretty sure he was the first. If there was one before him, wouldn't this be the Second Great Age of Pirates, and Roger be the Second Pirate King? Roger did what no man had done before, and his legend inspired thousands to go out to sea.

Otherwise, this'd just be a recurring pattern in history, and be treated as such.

[Mmod]

Alright, if the former was defeated, why WB is not the pirate king?

[Power]

wasn't roger declared to be the pirate king because he gained, wealth, fame and power and was the only pirate to conquer the whole grand line and reach raftel? in that case i don't think a final fight on raftel with the previous pirate king would make sense.

I think roger was declared so mainly because he performed something incredibly hard to do and was the first one to do it. The new pirate king will be one who will achieve the same. If everyone manages to reach raftel and hold final fights there, then theoretically everyone of those who get there would have conquered the grand line. I think the strawhats will reach raftel alone, with luffy as their captain. The captain of the second crew to reach that island. The new pirate king.

[bedrock]

I really see the slight possibility, that there might be someone in the story who has no direct connection (as a nakama/adversary) to Roger/Mihawk, whoever … at least I hope so. sigh

Perhaps Roger was the first to achieve the "title" Pirate King? (that´s what I strongly believe)

[Strohhut-Ruffy]

Noone can be Pirate King without One Piece. Roger was Pirate King because he was the man who had all a normal Pirate could wish. I think there was no Pirate King before him, because Roger was the first dangerous most-wanted man in the world. And Pirate King of course because One Piece.

And isn't Whitebeard older than 100 years?
I mean .. he said something like ,You are a hundred years too young to tell me what I have to do' to Shanks.
And he's probably a half-giant or something.

Your list is full of characters from the mugiwara's flashbacks.
I believe only Zeff, Kureha, Krokus, Tom and Gun Fall have to do with Roger. And we know that the most of them have.

Chapapaaaa. Sorry 4 bad english, Ishimataaaaa.

[Antinoetisch]

@Strohhut-Ruffy:

And isn't Whitebeard older than 100 years?
I mean .. he said something like ,You are a hundred years too young to tell me what I have to do' to Shanks.
And he's probably a half-giant or something.

I'm pretty sure that's just a saying… But even so, I wouldn't be too surprised if WB had at least a little big of Giant blood. XDD We just need to wait 'till he laughs; then we'll know.

[bedrock]

@Strohhut-Ruffy:

Noone can be Pirate King without One Piece…

That´s obviously wrong.
Simply to be deduced by the fact that no one knows what One Piece really is.
Rogers reputation as the pirate king was surely not based on the fact that he posessed something, …ehm, äh, ... nhh ... "what the hell!!!"
You "simply" have to build up an equal reputation by doing equally outragous things as Roger did .... finding One Piece is just a symbolic proof that you went down the same path Roger did. Just my two cents.

[Sogeking D. Usopp]

$10 says Buggy finds One Piece. By total fluke!

Anywhoo, FFA you forgot the Goreosei. Perhaps the old bald dude with the sword was the former greatest swordsman, considering his current position. It makes more sense than a nameless sensei from a nameless village. Either that or we'll never know, Mihawk probably sliced the poor SoB in half.

Garp is probably Roger's final-final opponent. After Roger had been through numerous fights with Whitebeard and other rivals, he was finally cornered by the Navy. However he excuated his crew before the Navy arrived, leaving only himself aboard (explains how Shanks and Buggy didn't get the Gallows treatment as well.) Roger and Garp have an epic battle 1 on 1; Roger still remains the stronger of the two even after being exhausted. During the fight Roger surrenders anyways as a good gesture.

So for Mihawk it can be anyone under the sun, though I believe that Mihawk's previous opponent is DEAD (which means he may make an appearance in the Florian Triangle?)

And for Roger, its probably Garp, as thats just what Garp's credited for.

[Impel Down]

Roger's final opponent was some Marine, like Garp or Aka Inu, and the last signifigant person Mihawk fought was probably Zoro.

[SabZ]

One Piece is probably a load of seperate treasures gathered by Gold Roger. I think he is the one that created One Piece, as he sailed the seas and gathered so much treasure, which was so much that he said he left it in that place; and later it gained the name One Piece. Whitebeard was probably a normal pirate with a lot of treasure at that time, but then he came across Roger, who had so much treasure that Whitebeard insisted on fighting for it. Gold Roger didn't go down so easy and fought Whitebeard numerous times until he finally became victorious and claimed the Pirate King title. (Remember: Whitebeard was marked as Roger's equal, but that could have been before Roger gained Pirate King status.)

That leads me to believe there was no former Pirate King.

And Impel Down, I think we're discussing how Mihawk got his status as World's Best Swordsman. I think he might have gotten it off Shanks, but Shanks isn't a full-on swordsman. I have no clue who Mihawk got his status off. Not Zoro's sensei… I highly doubt that. Zoro's determination has made him as good as he is now, not just his training (which got him as far as "pirate hunter" Zoro).

Roger's final fight was probably with Garp, since Garp, in my opinion, was the one who caught him.

[FireFistAce 0]

@Impel:

Roger's final opponent was some Marine, like Garp or Aka Inu, and the last signifigant person Mihawk fought was probably Zoro.

That doesn't make sense. 22 years ago, Zoro wasn't alive. And Zoro didn't have the title of World's Greatest Swordsman, he's trying to obtain that title from Mihawk.

[freedom]

Interesting stuff as always from you FFA.

My thoughts on Roger are the following:
I believe he was the first established as a PK. He's supposedly the only one to make it to Raftel and conquer the GL so to speak, and is responsible for this great pirate age. So even if there were other pirates before him that did the same, he's the first that got the credibility for it.

As for his final opponents, quite possibly no one. The thing that confuses me is that the info we get on Garp is that he "cornered" the PK, and not "captured". So, why that choice of words? Also, what happened to Roger's crew? Did they somehow escape at the time of or before Roger's capture? Causing the WG to track down and condemn any one they could find associated with Roger (i.e. Tom). Maybe Roger got wind of an "ultimate" attack on him from the WG/Marines and disbanded his crew, and fought till exhaustion and then was captured. Or maybe he just turned himself in.

As for Mihawk, it would be nice to know how he attained his title. However, I doubt the story will go into that. I'd like to see him fight a high caliber opponent before his final showdown w/ Zoro. If I had to pick someone from the show though, i'd have to go w/ that old fart in the Gorousei.

[Impel Down]

Oh, I thought you meant the last person they fought, like, ever, not when Roger died.

[smurfx]

@Fire Fist:

Crocodile: Now, here, I believe Crocodile was a cabin boy on Roger's crew like Shanks. A kid with big aspirations. But either through bad luck or something like a Davy Back fight, he lost everything and lost his spirit.

this one i feel is very possible. just look at this guy during buggy's flashback he is a dead ringer for crocodile.

[Mister_Anbu]

I think there are conditions to reach raftel, after all, if it's just sailing, it shouldn't be that hard.

See, we know that Roger could read poneglyphs, and that in general, there are a very small amount of people in the world who can read that because the world government apparantly wiped out whoever could. They strictly ban the research of it, etc. Thus, the Yonkou are all stuck because they have no one that has the ability to read poneglyphs.

The ability to read Poneglpyhs is in my opinion, the ability to conquer the Grand Line.

[psolaras]

@Mister_Anbu:

I think there are conditions to reach raftel, after all, if it's just sailing, it shouldn't be that hard.

See, we know that Roger could read poneglyphs, and that in general, there are a very small amount of people in the world who can read that because the world government apparantly wiped out whoever could. They strictly ban the research of it, etc. Thus, the Yonkou are all stuck because they have no one that has the ability to read poneglyphs.

The ability to read Poneglpyhs is in my opinion, the ability to conquer the Grand Line.

and remember psolaras said it first in his thread!

mihawk propably defeated all the swordsmen in his time and still defeats every challenger so i think he didn't defeat any ex-best swordsman like zoro will do to become the best

now about roger,i think he was the first modern one piece character to reach to the end of GL and this is why he was considered the king of pirates

it isn't a title like mihawk's,for luffy to become the PK he will need all of his nakama although he will eventually become the strongest man in his own

if it was all about strenght WB would be the PK already,it isn't a title exactly,it is oda's way of showing us the person who is called the PK is the greatest pirate

and as i have said countless times the poneglyphs are the key to raftel and this is why roger was the only one who went there and this is why luffy will become the next PK

[ONEinchPUNCH]

Rogers final opponent will have been whitebeard, since they were the two strongest (and equal). No-one else would have been able to defeat roger. It is most likely his final opponent was whitebeard since he didn't beat him.

Mihawks is the most obvious, like psolaras says it's anyone who has a sword in the OP world. Mihawk has defeated them all otherwise he wouldn't be the strongest swordsman in the world.

And please no-one post "well there might be better swordsman out there they just aren't interested in the title". I say this because that title isn't like a WWE one, it is Oda's voice telling us Mihawk is the best swordsman in OP. He wanted to make it clear so he wrote it after the guys name.

Only zoro will change that.

[freedom]

No offense to psolaras and OIP, but are you guys purposely taking the opposite side to FFA. maybe you both misunderstood his statement.

He asked if you thought Mihawk defeated a "previous" greatest swordsmans to get his title. I'm sure Mihawk wasn't born the best, he had to earn it. Perhaps, him and Shanks were trained at the same dojo, learned the same techniques, etc. but, back to point, at some point in the past, there probably existed someone who was claiming to be the best swordsman till Mihawk took that person down.

[ONEinchPUNCH]

@freedom:

No offense to psolaras and OIP, but are you guys purposely taking the opposite side to FFA. maybe you both misunderstood his statement.

He asked if you thought Mihawk defeated a "previous" greatest swordsmans to get his title. I'm sure Mihawk wasn't born the best, he had to earn it. Perhaps, him and Shanks were trained at the same dojo, learned the same techniques, etc. but, back to point, at some point in the past, there probably existed someone who was claiming to be the best swordsman till Mihawk took that person down.

I get the same feeling from you you love to disagree with me, which is fine since we have agreed to disagree.

If you think before you answer you'd know my post covers everyone, so yes mihawk will have also defeated the previous worlds best.

I haven't disagreed with FFA at all, don't know where you got that from. He gave those points and I gave my opinion on them, so if anything I have agreed with him by saying mihawk beat everyone.

[Hitotsumami]

Hmmm. About Roger… Let's see.

When Roger fougth Whitebeard, they were tied. Now, I believe they fought eachother about 23 years ago, about the same time Roger was executed. I believe that Whitebeard's current condition was cuased by Roger also. Roger himself, however, when he died, appeared to be quite fine really.

Whitebeard was covered in wounds and is still healing from his fight, while Roger went to his death with a smile and no visible wounds or anything. I think it might be ( although I hate to say it ) a DF power... Like a regeneration DF that heals the body.

Anyway, Yes, I think his final fight was with Whitebeard. Or...

Maybe Sengoku. He is the highest ranked Marine in the entire world after all. I think that Sengoku saw it as a great time to take Roger out since they just got news of his fight with Whitebeard. So they went after him and captured him. However, I think that Roger did give himself up willingly. Maybe the reason was that his goal in life ( after discovering the true history ) was to tell the next most trustworthy and powerful man in the world, Whitebeard. Of course, maybe something went wrong, or things were said, and it errupted in a fight. I mean, just look at Shanks and Whitebeard, they meant no ill will to start with when they started talking, then bam, a fight errupts.

Anyway, after Roger told Whitebeard what he had learned and knew, he didn't have anything else to do. He had completed his goal. So he gave himself up.

Or, if the popular theory that he gave himself up is false, then I say he struggled fighting Sengoku just after fighting Whitebeard, and since he was too weak after that, he was vunerable and lost. However, I think this is false. I perfer the more Roger gave himself up theory.

So yeah, the last major villian for Roger was Whitebeard in my opinion.

Also, about Roger fighting the previous Pirate King. Naw, I don't think there was one. I think he was the first. The world had never witnessed such awesome Power Roger possessed, so he became the first King. If there were more, I'm sure we would have heard something, even if it was a single line, about it.

The last villain of Mihawk? Eh, probably that Gorosei guy.

[freedom]

@ONEinchPUNCH:

I get the same feeling from you you love to disagree with me, which is fine since we have agreed to disagree.

If you think before you answer you'd know my post covers everyone, so yes mihawk will have also defeated the previous worlds best.

I haven't disagreed with FFA at all, don't know where you got that from. He gave those points and I gave my opinion on them, so if anything I have agreed with him by saying mihawk beat everyone.

well, I poorly phrased my comment. I shouldn't say you disagreed w/ FFA, b/c you did not. But it's almost as if you completely ignored his question IMO. he asked "who do you think was Roger's and Mihawk's respectively last opponent?" and saying "Mihawk did defeat everyone" isn't exactly an answer. That's what I was trying to get at. I'm at work, and under some pressure to deliver some stuff by end of day, so i'm not spending time to think thoroughly :happy:

[WHITEBEARD]

I would say The Whitebeard and Shanks where Rogers and Mihawks final opponents.

[Hitotsumami]

@ WHITEBEARD

Shanks fought his own captain? That could actually work.

Think about it like this.

What if, after Roger's battle with Whitebeard, Roger told Shanks ( who by now was rising up in his ranks on his crew ) and told him what he planned to do, which was give himself up to the government.

This, of course, angered Shanks, wondering why he would do something so stupid. Even after Roger tried to explain, Shanks didn't care and went in to fight his Captain, kinda like Usopp did. He ended up loosing, but, growing older, eventually understood his Captain's will.

[ONEinchPUNCH]

@WHITEBEARD:

I would say The Whitebeard and Shanks where Rogers and Mihawks final opponents.

This is what I think Freedom

I read FFA's question I just didn't want to say what WHITEBEARD did or shanks fanboys would start crying.

Now if it isn't shanks I'll say it is either that old gorosei or possibly zoro's sensei, who else would want to train a trouble maker? Someone who conquered all in his time found a new challenge in the present, training a cheeky, ill-mannered trouble maker.

He beat everyone is still my favourite response so you can choose his last opponent becuase it doesn't really matter as long as he's the best.

You happy now?

[Kirin D. Cross]

@Hitotsumami:

@ WHITEBEARD

Shanks fought his own captain? That could actually work.

I think he meant Shanks was Mihawks final oppenent and WB to Roger

[Hitotsumami]

@ Kirin D. Cross

Ooooh, so I came up with the idea by myself. Zehahaha!

[WHITEBEARD]

@ONEinchPUNCH:

This is what I think Freedom
I read FFA's question I just didn't want to say what WHITEBEARD did or shanks fanboys would start crying.

They will cry!

They will come!

0ver 1000z of fanboys will post!

and there rants will Black out the sun!

[Pharoh]

Bear with me one this one, it might seem a little whacko…but here goes...

Roger's final opponent was something we haven't seen yet, or someone. Considering he sailed all of the grand line, claimed the treasure of One Piece, and was considered the most dangerous man in the world, leads me to believe, that he couldn't be caught by anyone that we have been introduced to yet. Considering that some of you say Sengoku did Roger in, then that means that Whitebeard could be done in by Sengoku also, but, hasn't yet, which leads me to believe once again, Roger was captured by someone we haven't seen yet. Also, I don't think it was Garp either, he would be in a higher marine position atm then his current one, unless he refused to go higher in rank, which i doubt. As for Whitebeard, hell no, lol. If what Buggy said was true, about Roger and him tying in a duel, then hell no he didn't turn Roger in.

Now for Mihawk, I just don't think there is enough info on him yet to decide how he got his title. If he beat Shanks, then how the hell is Shanks one of the four emps now? Seems to me in this manga, once you have a title and lose it, you don't really go onto something of equal or lesser value. Esp. if you were known to be a part of a legendary pirate crew. As for a theory on how Mihawk got so good...(lol this is kinda whacky too), but I theorize that he obtained one of the ancient fighting styles from (can't think of the old kingdom that robin is trying to find...), and he got his sword from there. Then from there, took on everyone, and won. As for what ship/crew he was with, I don't think it has been mentioned yet, but if it has or if it has been speculated, I would love to know!

[blackfoot]

I don't think Roger had a predecessor, but I do believe that his final opponent was Whitebeard… Whom he beat, and then continued on to find Raftel (through his ability to read Poneglyphs).

As for Mihawk, I would assume he was just able to beat every single challenger regardless of skill level.

[FireFistAce 0]

@Pharoh:

Now for Mihawk, I just don't think there is enough info on him yet to decide how he got his title. If he beat Shanks, then how the hell is Shanks one of the four emps now? Seems to me in this manga, once you have a title and lose it, you don't really go onto something of equal or lesser value. Esp. if you were known to be a part of a legendary pirate crew. As for a theory on how Mihawk got so good…(lol this is kinda whacky too), but I theorize that he obtained one of the ancient fighting styles from (can't think of the old kingdom that robin is trying to find...), and he got his sword from there. Then from there, took on everyone, and won. As for what ship/crew he was with, I don't think it has been mentioned yet, but if it has or if it has been speculated, I would love to know!

You know, back in Norland's day, I believe that Norland was the World's strongest swordsman. After all, he sliced that giant ass snake god's head off with no effort at all, when Wiper's Burn Bazooka and Zoro's swords couldn't even put a dent in Tsulala. Granted, Tsulala was a tad bit bigger than Kami-sama, but they were both Grandfather - Grandson.

I don't think the Lvneel kingdom kept the title for long, though. Upon Norland's execution, the title probably went to another person elsewhere, and then so on, till Mihawk defeated the previous World's greatest. Zoro's Sensei or the Bold Gorosei is a good a guess as any.

[SabZ]

OMFG ZORO'S DAD WOZ A GR8 SWORDSMAN, I BET HE WOZ & LOST TO MIHAWK & I BET HE WILL MAKE A APPEARANCE AND OP WILL RULE WIV MORE FAMILY MEMBAZ!!1!!1!ONE!!11!!1

I have no clue who the greatest swordsman was, and we have nothing good to work on.

[Impel Down]

Wow, what was with the n00bing?

[SabZ]

@Impel:

Wow, what was with the n00bing?

Just another bit of daily sarcasm.

[Impel Down]

mmhmm. Sure. Whatever you say.

[Darkaos]

Too much to read XD
Just like to make 1 note…hope someone havent think of it yet.

Zoro sensei are not likely to be big in the pirate world...why? Anime is all about the look...Zoro sensei dont have any special look that would make him mean anything, everyone need to have a special look. Hope that make sense

[Impel Down]

What about in the Prince of Tennis? Most of the Regulars don't have fancy designs.

[FireFistAce 0]

@Darkaos:

Too much to read XD
Just like to make 1 note…hope someone havent think of it yet.

Zoro sensei are not likely to be big in the pirate world...why? Anime is all about the look...Zoro sensei dont have any special look that would make him mean anything, everyone need to have a special look. Hope that make sense

That's just silly. If that was the case, Robin is the only Strawhat that would make a difference, cause all of the others look the same, pretty much.

[Kirin D. Cross]

@Pharoh:

Now for Mihawk, I just don't think there is enough info on him yet to decide how he got his title. If he beat Shanks, then how the hell is Shanks one of the four emps now? Seems to me in this manga, once you have a title and lose it, you don't really go onto something of equal or lesser value.

It is stated that Mihawk is the Greatest swordsman in the world
It is stated the Mihawk and Shanks have dueled
It was never once stated that Shanks ever lost to Mihawk and Visa-Versa

Anyways With Roger it really unknown who or why he gave his life.. I dont think it was garp though. My reasoning for this is I think when Garp was seen at W7 they would have said something like OMG VA Garp the one who beat Roger.. Of course I think that Roger gave himself in, but who knows. Anyways I just feel as if the person was introduced already he would have been introduced as the one who beat garp. And I also dont think it was just one person I think it was a group, because it was said that WB was the ONLY one to TIE in a fight with the Pirate king. Never was he beaten, and that goes more to him giving himself up or something along those lines.
Or he was just all out ambushed by like the whole WG.

And Mihawk hasnt had a FINAL oppenent because he is still alive, But it is obvious that Zoro will be that last person to fight him, in turn beating him

[psolaras]

freedom we didn't ignore FFA's points

try it my way,there propably was someone that could be the greatest swordsman when mihawk wasn't,someone who could beat every other swordsman,maybe there were 2 equals in the top of the SM list

but it isn't for sure that the formal best swordsman was acknoledged from the world as the best,he might not have dueled every one to show the world

or even if the ex-best defeated the ex-ex-best,then doesn't this mean this could go on forever????

someone must have defeated all the swordsman to prove his power,somoene had to be the first

think it this way,how can the world know you are the best cook if you don't go to a competition and win the 1st prize?

so this is why i don't agree with FFA's theory,even if mihawk defeated the ex,and the ex defeated the ex-ex etc. sometime someone would have to win every swordsman to prove he was the strongest,it's not a circle

and because we haven't given any info about an ex-best and cuz it would be boring if mihawk had the same path as zoro i believe mihawk was the first to beat every swordsman in the world and he first set the bar for the next best

this way it would be more interesting

i have a theory about how it went but when i told it 2 years ago in the groups msn they almost killed me

anyway it is worth another try after 2 years

i believe both shanks and mihawk wanted to become the best swordsman,but not just the best,the first swordsman to become the best (cuz there weren't one,like roger becoming the PK)

shanks and mihawk were rivals and the rivalry would end if they both defeated every existing SM and in the end they would determine the best by an absolute fight.

and mihawk won the fight and became the best and lost every other interest so he became a schichibukai cuz he wanted to sleep without the marines waking him

THE END

EDIT: there was the exast same thread in the msn though it spoke only of mohawk and not roger

[FireFistAce 0]

@psolaras:

freedom we didn't ignore FFA's points

try it my way,there propably was someone that could be the greatest swordsman when mihawk wasn't,someone who could beat every other swordsman,maybe there were 2 equals in the top of the SM list

but it isn't for sure that the formal best swordsman was acknoledged from the world as the best,he might not have dueled every one to show the world

or even if the ex-best defeated the ex-ex-best,then doesn't this mean this could go on forever????

someone must have defeated all the swordsman to prove his power,somoene had to be the first

think it this way,how can the world know you are the best cook if you don't go to a competition and win the 1st prize?

so this is why i don't agree with FFA's theory,even if mihawk defeated the ex,and the ex defeated the ex-ex etc. sometime someone would have to win every swordsman to prove he was the strongest,it's not a circle

and because we haven't given any info about an ex-best and cuz it would be boring if mihawk had the same path as zoro i believe mihawk was the first to beat every swordsman in the world and he first set the bar for the next best

this way it would be more interesting

i have a theory about how it went but when i told it 2 years ago in the groups msn they almost killed me

anyway it is worth another try after 2 years

i believe both shanks and mihawk wanted to become the best swordsman,but not just the best,the first swordsman to become the best (cuz there weren't one,like roger becoming the PK)

shanks and mihawk were rivals and the rivalry would end if they both defeated every existing SM and in the end they would determine the best by an absolute fight.

and mihawk won the fight and became the best and lost every other interest so he became a schichibukai cuz he wanted to sleep without the marines waking him

THE END

EDIT: there was the exast same thread in the msn though it spoke only of mohawk and not roger

Cough No offense, but that's ridiculous. There are more swordsmen in the One Piece world than there are fish in the sea. Do you honestly think that Mihawk faced them all?

Of course he didn't. There were clearly established people at the top who Mihawk challenged and defeated, thus earning the title of the World's Greatest Swordsmen. The same applies to Roger. Luffy hasn't defeated every pirate in the world; that would take him hundreds of years, and before he was done, he'd look like Brooke. There is no way in the world that this could have happened. You're insane if you think so. That would be like Bruce Lee having fought EVERY martial artist in the world to be considered the World's Greatest. He would've died of exhaustion rather than dying from an aspirin.

Look at Son Goku. The best Martial Artist before him was Tao Pai Pai, which he managed to beat and become the World's Greatest Martial artist. But even Son Goku lost the title because he neglected the Tenkaichi. Eventually, the title went to Mr. Satan.

Mihawk's opponent is either dead or unrevealed. It's that simple.

[psolaras]

@Fire Fist:

Cough No offense, but that's ridiculous. There are more swordsmen in the One Piece world than there are fish in the sea. Do you honestly think that Mihawk faced them all?

Of course he didn't. There were clearly established people at the top who Mihawk challenged and defeated, thus earning the title of the World's Greatest Swordsmen. The same applies to Roger. Luffy hasn't defeated every pirate in the world; that would take him hundreds of years, and before he was done, he'd look like Brooke. There is no way in the world that this could have happened. You're insane if you think so. That would be like Bruce Lee having fought EVERY martial artist in the world to be considered the World's Greatest. He would've died of exhaustion rather than dying from an aspirin.

Look at Son Goku. The best Martial Artist before him was Tao Pai Pai, which he managed to beat and become the World's Greatest Martial artist. But even Son Goku lost the title because he neglected the Tenkaichi. Eventually, the title went to Mr. Satan.

Mihawk's opponent is either dead or unrevealed. It's that simple.

so when i said all you took it litteraly,it is obvious
ALL THE STRONG SWORDSMEN

how many could they be? 100? mihawk faced 50,shanks the other 50 and in the end they dueled

and saying my pot is ridiculous is flaming

or even if the ex-best defeated the ex-ex-best,then doesn't this mean this could go on forever????

someone must have defeated all the swordsman to prove his power,somoene had to be the first

think it this way,how can the world know you are the best cook if you don't go to a competition and win the 1st prize?

so this is why i don't agree with FFA's theory,even if mihawk defeated the ex,and the ex defeated the ex-ex etc. sometime someone would have to win every swordsman to prove he was the strongest,it's not a circle

answer these

if mihawk defeated the ex best who did the ex best defeated? the ex-ex? and who did the ex-ex defeated? the ex-ex-ex? and the ex-ex-ex?

who was the first? someone had to be the first,was it the ex-ex-ex-ex-….........-ex-ex-ex-ex-ex-ex?
someone had to defeat every STRONG SM (since you want it that way)

and also where did you see the countless SM?????????????????

until now only cabaji,kaku,kuina,shanks and mihawk were SM (hacchi and ohm weren't true SM nor the pussycat dolls,not that cabaji is a true SM since he has no pride but whatever)

what if they knew the strong SM by their reputation and fought all of them,would that satisfy you?????

:devil:there wasn't an ex best :devil: (leaves after breaking FFA's thread's dream!)

[FireFistAce 0]

@psolaras:

so when i said all you took it litteraly,it is obvious
ALL THE STRONG SWORDSMEN

how many could they be? 100? mihawk faced 50,shanks the other 50 and in the end they dueled

and saying my pot is ridiculous is flaming

answer these

if mihawk defeated the ex best who did the ex best defeated? the ex-ex? and who did the ex-ex defeated? the ex-ex-ex? and the ex-ex-ex?

who was the first? someone had to be the first,was it the ex-ex-ex-ex-….........-ex-ex-ex-ex-ex-ex?
someone had to defeat every STRONG SM (since you want it that way)

and also where did you see the countless SM?????????????????

until now only cabaji,kaku,kuina,shanks and mihawk were SM (hacchi and ohm weren't true SM nor the pussycat dolls,not that cabaji is a true SM since he has no pride but whatever)

what if they knew the strong SM by their reputation and fought all of them,would that satisfy you?????

:devil:there wasn't an ex best :devil: (leaves after breaking FFA's thread's dream!)

Uh, none of that makes any sense.

I'm not saying your post is ridiculous, I'm saying your idea is ridiculous. There are more than 100 swordsmen in the world, there's probably tens of thousands. There is no way in hell Mihawk would have fought them all.

And it doesn't matter who beat the former's former's former etc., all we know is someone did and then Mihawk beat this someone and is the current. That's like asking if God created man, who created god? Or if the egg came before the chicken, who laid the egg? and if the chicken came before the egg, what egg did the chicken come from, and who laid that egg?

Just because we've seen only a handful of swordsman doesn't mean anything. Do you think the Strawhats are going to run into EVERY pirate in the One Piece world? There's 3 blues we won't even see during the course of the story except in flashbacks, and even then, there's hundreds of islands that won't even be mentioned.

Mihawk defeated the best swordsmen of the time. That's it. Period.

[psolaras]

@Fire Fist:

Uh, none of that makes any sense.

I'm not saying your post is ridiculous, I'm saying your idea is ridiculous. There are more than 100 swordsmen in the world, there's probably tens of thousands. There is no way in hell Mihawk would have fought them all.

And it doesn't matter who beat the former's former's former etc., all we know is someone did and then Mihawk beat this someone and is the current. That's like asking if God created man, who created god? Or if the egg came before the chicken, who laid the egg? and if the chicken came before the egg, what egg did the chicken come from, and who laid that egg?

Just because we've seen only a handful of swordsman doesn't mean anything. Do you think the Strawhats are going to run into EVERY pirate in the One Piece world? There's 3 blues we won't even see during the course of the story except in flashbacks, and even then, there's hundreds of islands that won't even be mentioned.

Mihawk defeated the best swordsmen of the time. That's it. Period.

no he didn't cuz it isn't stated

mihawk fought only the strong swordsmen

THE STRONG,HE DEFEATED EVERY KNOWN STRONG SWORDSMAN AND THEN DEFEATED EVERY CHALLENGER

my idea isn't ridiculous just cuz YOU think it is

if WB died and luffy defeated every person in the 3 powers and the top bounty hunters (if they exist),BB and the leader of the revolutionists dragon wouldn't he be considered as the strongest???????

he defeated the best so he is the strongest pirate

AND THE SAME GOES FOR MIHAWK'S CASE,HE DEFEATED THE BEST (EVERY WELL KNOWN SWORDSMAN) SO HE IS THE BEST

and i don't care about god or eggs,this is OP and random logic like that isn't oda's style

yeah right,magically there was a no1 SM (propably he is mentioned in the bible of bartholomew kuma were it sais GOD created the best swordsman from an EGG but since god sais he is the best it's OK!) and then someone had beaten him so the circle continued until mihawk showed,again yeah right

p.s. going to sleep,CU tomorrow

[FireFistAce 0]

@psolaras:

no he didn't cuz it isn't stated

mihawk fought only the strong swordsmen

THE STRONG,HE DEFEATED EVER KNOWN STRONG SWORDSMAN AND THEN DEFEATED EVERY CHALLENGER

my idea isn't ridiculous just cuz YOU think it is

if WB died and luffy defeated every person in the 3 powers and the top bounty hunters (if they exist),BB and the leader of the revolutionists dragon wouldn't he be considered as the strongest???????

he defeated the best so he is the strongest pirate

AND THE SAME GOES FOR MIHAWK'S CASE,HE DEAFEATED THE BEST (EVERY WELL KNOWN SWORDSMAN) SO HE IS THE BEST

and i don't care about god or eggs,this is OP ad random logic like that isn't oda's style

yeah right,magically there was a no1 SM (propably is in the bible of bartholomew kuma were GOD exists he came from an EGG) and how he became was unknown (but god sais he is so it's OK) and then someone had beaten him so the circle continued until mihawk showed,again yeah right

There is always a person who is considered the best at a trade. Don't be so naive. You said you go to a University, right? You live in Greece. You probably have a professor there that's considered one of the most knowledgeable. Was it always that way? Of course not. Greece is a country very rich in philosophers. Aristotle had a teacher Plato, who was considered the greatest of his time. But Plato had a greater teacher, Socrates. And it goes back to the founding of Greece.

There are always people who are considered the greatest, that's why awards are created to honor these people. Nobel Prize, Pulitzer Prize, Masamune Swordmaking award… just to name a few. Since the dawn of mankind, people have always strove to be the best.

Just as in our world, in the one piece world, there's always been a best swordsman, and always been a best strongman. All that's changed is the person who carries that title.

[bedrock]

@Fire Fist:

…
And it doesn't matter who beat the former's former's former etc., all we know is someone did and then Mihawk beat this someone and is the current. That's like asking if God created man, who created god? Or if the egg came before the chicken, who laid the egg? and if the chicken came before the egg, what egg did the chicken come from, and who laid that egg?
...

You obviously didn´t get the point of psolares post at all … he exactly wanted to show you that your assumption and question of this thread goes in the same direction as the chicken/hen thing you quoted yourself - and imo he´s right with this...

[psolaras]

@Fire Fist:

There is always a person who is considered the best at a trade. Don't be so naive. You said you go to a University, right? You live in Greece. You probably have a professor there that's considered one of the most knowledgeable. Was it always that way? Of course not. Greece is a country very rich in philosophers. Aristotle had a teacher Plato, who was considered the greatest of his time. But Plato had a greater teacher, Socrates. And it goes back to the founding of Greece.

There are always people who are considered the greatest, that's why awards are created to honor these people. Nobel Prize, Pulitzer Prize, Masamune Swordmaking award… just to name a few. Since the dawn of mankind, people have always strove to be the best.

Just as in our world, in the one piece world, there's always been a best swordsman, and always been a best strongman. All that's changed is the person who carries that title.

as a greek person i thank you for your good words and we expect you to come in mykonos for the summer!!!!!!!!

now i see the ex-best as a possible theory,if it happened it would be OK to me though i would be disappointed

but i don't think mihawk had the same path as zoro,he had shanks as a rival and he seaked to defeat the best? i think it would be better for the story for mihawk to have been the first to be considered as the best (again it is also possible like the PK,mihawk was the first to defeat every strong and well known SM so he is the best)

ace i have my theories and you have yours,i respect you and you respect me :wub:and oda will show who is right (if we don't both be proven wrong)

so time will tell

also the philosophers don't quite count cuz a greek one (aristotelis i think(his original name)) is still considered as the greatest philosopher

(geez i am so emberassed i don't know who exactly is and ace propably does even though i am from greece but what can i say? i chose the technological courses in high school )

also i am going to sleep,CU tomorrow!!

EDIT: i am very flatered you remember about me what we chated months ago!!! if only we could agree a bit more:happy:

[Kma]

I like psolaras's theory about how Mihawk and Shanks make a pact to defeat all the great swordsmen and meet at the end. It reminds me of Initial D where we see these two rivals talking and they make a promise or something. They say that they will travel around Japan beating the best racers of different territories and in the end they will meet back here to decide whos best.

I think thats what you were getting at… haha hope I interpreted that right

Maybe it was a combination of the two? Like at the end they were supposed to meet up, clash, and then face the worlds greatest?

but then to me Shanks dosent seem like the type that wants to be the worlds best swordsman. I think Mihawk did probaly defeat the previous world's greatest swordsman and gain the title. As to who I have no idea.

[psolaras]

thanks kma and bedrock! this time the theory went well!!

well to back this theory a little more

WB said he could still remember the sounds of mohawk and shanks fighting so mihawk might have been in WB's crew so he battled shanks a lot

maybe before that they were in he same dojo

but the fact is that mihawk and shanks still remained rivals after roger died but something happened after roger died and mihawk now is the best

i think it is what i said before but anyway only oda could know

[SabZ]

psolaras, you seem to overreact when people disagree with your idea. So when I say I dislike your idea, don't flip on me.

Mihawk probably defeated many strong swordmen, but not ALL of them; just the ones he passed by and used to become stronger. It's like Zoro; he is defeating swordmen that happen to be on the enemies side, and with every swordsman he defeats, the greater swordsman he becomes. Zoro hasn't faught ALL the greatest swordsmen that he has passed by, just the ones he has had to.

Same with Mihawk. He probably faught a number of strong swordsmen until he became strong enough to defeat the world's strongest swordsman (whoever that was). Zoro will have to defeat enough swordsmen for him to reach Mihawk's level. That could be two swordsmen, three, four or five. Not all the strong swordsmen in the GL.