Going by a popular DF theory, is Enel…

[Hitotsumami]

Going by a popular DF theory, is Enel the first one to ever eat the lightning fruit?

The popular theory I'm going by is there is only one of every kind of fruit. Also, that when a person dies, the fruit is formed again.

Enel, as far as we have seen, is immortal. That means he was the first one to eat the lightning DF fruit, because if someone before him had eaten it, that other person would still be living.

Even submerged unerwater, I think Enel could still live ( although he would be immobile ). When Luffy was underwater, his DF ability still worked. He couldn't control his DF ability, but it still worked. Same thing for Enel. One of the advantages of his DF is that when he dies, his heart would restart. After drowning underwater, his heart would automatically restart. Since it's impossible for Enel to control his DF when he's dead, this can only lead us to believe that this advantage would happen automatically.

So, as I've said, Enel is immortal. Even drowning can't kill him. This can only show us that Enel is the first person to ever eat the lightning Devil Fruit.

So, I'm just wondering if there is something I might have missed that can prove my idea wrong.

Discuss.

[ONEinchPUNCH]

If enel was underwater he would be stripped of his powers and drown. Luffy who is paramecia type is always rubber so the sea cannot stop him from using his power, it just takes away all his strength.

[Hitotsumami]

@ Oneinchpunch

Eh, there is really nothing holding up to what you have said. Unless someone said something about Logias directly.

For all we know, Logia's abilities still work underwater, just like Paramecia's and Zoans. An example of Zoan's DF fruits not being stripped is when Chopper was shot into the water by Franky. If his DF fruit would have been stripped, he would have gone back to being a normal reindeer and not a half reindeer half human. He can't go into different forms, because a DF user can't control his ability, but the DF's ability still works.

So again, nothing so far stated in the manga proves that DF fruits don't work underwater. It only proves that the user becomes immobile and unable to use the ability.

[Polygon]

When any DF user is underwater, they lose consciousness, their pwoers are still present but they can't do anything.

[Hitotsumami]

@ Polygon

Yes, I've said that. They can't do anything, but there DF fruit is still working. If he dies, his DF would kick in and bring him back to life, keeping him immortal.

Meaning that he has to have been the first person to eat a lightning DF fruit. If there was someone previous to Enel, then that man would be immortal and Enel would have never gotten the lightning DF.

[Cr4zy]

When Enel said that he was God, it wasn't actually true.

[ONEinchPUNCH]

@Polygon:

When any DF user is underwater, they lose consciousness, their pwoers are still present but they can't do anything.

Exactly

And since enel must be in logia form to be immortal he would drown because the sea would not let him do that since he is unconscious. Luffy only survived because his head was pulled out of the water allowing him to breath or he would have died too.

[Hitotsumami]

@ ONEinchPunch

Luffy's head was not stretched when he originally was thrown into the water. Nojiko probably grabbed his head and stretched it through the water to the surface.

This continues to show that Enel's DF ability still works undewater. However, he can't control it.

[Gizmo]

@Hitotsumami:

@ ONEinchPunch

Luffy's head was not stretched when he originally was thrown into the water. Nojiko probably grabbed his head and stretched it through the water to the surface.

This continues to show that Enel's DF ability still works undewater. However, he can't control it.

That just disproved your whole theory. If Eneru can't control his abilities, how will he be able to restart his heart?

[Jounin7]

Yeah well if im right, when someone drowns their lungs fill up with water stoping the flow of air, making him suffocate.. With that said how would enel starting is heart back up help at all.

And just because there Logia doesnt mean they dont age.. So if there was at all a lighting logia before enel, he could have of died of age..

[Aldrich]

Enel would die if he went underwater. Did you forget the scene with Wiper, just before Enel "restarts" his heart? In contact with seastone, which has the same effect than surrounding water on df users, Enel couldn't turn into lightning anymore and was properly fucked. Wiper made the error to release Enel, but such a thing couldn't happen underwater. Enel isn't immortal.

[Hitotsumami]

@Ultimateclima

Because the advantage of Enel's heart restarting after he dies is something he doesn't control. It's automatic. As seen when he was killed by Waipa.

@ Aldrich

So you're basically saying that if Seastone ( or sea ) has Enel, then none of Enel's lightning abilities work? I have to disagree.

Remember when Luffy was thrown in the water? Even though he was completely surrounded by water, Nojiko was still able to stretch Luffy's head out of the water. His DF still worked, so there is no reason for Enel's not to also still work.

[AD-HD Pirate]

Maybe because he does it automatically?

[Le Lawliet]

@ultimateclima:

That just disproved your whole theory. If Eneru can't control his abilities, how will he be able to restart his heart?

I doubt he was controlling his powers when he was "killed" by Wiper.

Just drown him. If he doesn't have any oxygen to breathe, then his respiratory functions will fail to work.

[Gizmo]

Didn't Wiper remove the seastone after he supposedly "died"?

And @Lawliet you have a point. Underwater he'll die no matter what happens since he cant breathe but if he somehow was able to breathe in space and on the moon…but that's a different topic in general.

[Jounin7]

thank you Lawliet, thatst the same thing I said, restarting his heart would have no effect of the fact that his lungs are filled with water

[Hitotsumami]

Hmmm…

Yep, looks like my there is one thing that can disprove my theory...

Let's say Enel was completely submerged underwater and his lungs were completely filled up with water. Let's also so his DF still works, so whenever his heart stops, it would restart. Would the water in his lungs force his heart not to restart, even if the DF fruit forces it to?

If the answer is Yes, then my theory has been proven wrong. Heheh, ah well, it was fun thinking it up anyway and debating it. ^_^

[Aldrich]

@Hitotsumami:

So you're basically saying that if Seastone ( or sea ) has Enel, then none of Enel's lightning abilities work? I have to disagree.

Remember when Luffy was thrown in the water? Even though he was completely surrounded by water, Nojiko was still able to stretch Luffy's head out of the water. His DF still worked, so there is no reason for Enel's not to also still work.

Which only proves one thing; Luffy is permanently rubber, while Enel consciously switches between his material and elemental forms. If Enel was permanently lightning, Wiper couldn't have grabbed him, nor could he have used the reject blow on him.

As for Enel restarting his heart automatically; I actually think everything points to the exact contrary. I think he used the last seconds of consciousness he had to control his powers and use them to restart his heart. If it was his Logia powers just automatically coming back after being freed from seastone's influence, his whole body would have turned into lighting, his heart included, while what we had here was his physical heart, the organ made of flesh that was restarted by an electric shock.

[Polygon]

@Aldrich:

Which only proves one thing; Luffy is permanently rubber, while Enel consciously switches between his material and elemental forms. If Enel was permanently lightning, Wiper couldn't have grabbed him, nor could he have used the reject blow on him.

As for Enel restarting his heart automatically; I actually think everything points to the exact contrary. I think he used the last seconds of consciousness he had to control his powers and use them to restart his heart. If it was his Logia powers just automatically coming back after being freed from seastone's influence, his whole body would have turned into lighting, his heart included, while what we had here was his physical heart, the organ made of flesh that was restarted by an electric shock.

Exactly. .

[Hitotsumami]

@ Aldrich

Now that I read this, it appears that my theory was flawed in more than one way. Hehehe, nevertheless, I repeat myself. It was fun debating. ^_^

Anyway, this leads me to think of something else. Let's say Enel is the age he appears to be, which, in my opinion, it mid 20's to mid 30's. This means that he found his DF in Skypeia ( or some place in the sky ), since he had never been to the blue seas.

This can only lead us to believe that his DF originated from the clouds or that Gold Roger had brought it with him ( Since he was the last human there ) and Enel stole it.

[Angel emfrbl]

People who argue Logias and the sea… Forget Ace fell in a river in one of the mini-series. He had to be resuced by a milk maid further up stream. He was out cold (and half drowned).

[Le Lawliet]

Yes… we've established the basic point. Either way, if Ace were drenched in water, he couldn't do anything anyway.

And @Lawliet you have a point. Underwater he'll die no matter what happens since he cant breathe but if he somehow was able to breathe in space and on the moon…but that's a different topic in general.

I still say the moon is larger than ours and can sustain an atmosphere, but that's just me.

[Hitotsumami]

I'll repeat this, just in case no one pays attention to the first page of posts. ( It's happened before.. a lot. )

Anyway, this leads me to think of something else. Let's say Enel is the age he appears to be, which, in my opinion, it mid 20's to mid 30's. This means that he found his DF in Skypeia ( or some place in the sky ), since he had never been to the blue seas.

This can only lead us to believe that his DF originated from the clouds or that Gold Roger had brought it with him ( Since he was the last human there ) and Enel stole it.

[FireFistAce 0]

@Le:

Yes… we've established the basic point. Either way, if Ace were drenched in water, he couldn't do anything anyway.

I still say the moon is larger than ours and can sustain an atmosphere, but that's just me.

That's not true, if Ace was covered in water and was smart enough, he could use the oxygen in the water as fuel for his fire. Plus, water spreads some types of fire, that's why they have CO2 fire extinguishers.

But if he was submerged in water, then he'd be screwed.

As for Enel, if he fell in the ocean, he'd be dead. If he was covered in water, it wouldn't really affect him because water is an excellent conductor, except for pure water, which doesn't exist in nature.

[Le Lawliet]

This can only lead us to believe that his DF originated from the clouds or that Gold Roger had brought it with him ( Since he was the last human there ) and Enel stole it.

Or, a volcanic eruption could have brought it up there along with seastone and all that crap.

That's not true, if Ace was covered in water and was smart enough, he could use the oxygen in the water as fuel for his fire. Plus, water spreads some types of fire, that's why they have CO2 fire extinguishers.

That would involve a chemical reaction to separate water back into oxygen and hydrogen. You can't simply just take one piece of a substance that easily. Either way, CO2 fire extinguishers are meant to put out oil fires or electrical fires. Considering that Ace is the one that creates the fire, if Ace was drenched in water, then he can't start it, similar to Croc's inability to turn to sand or use his powers even though his powers allow him to drain water.

[Malintex_Terek]

@Le:

That would involve a chemical reaction to separate water back into oxygen and hydrogen. You can't simply just take one piece of a substance that easily.

Not exactly; water is a very polar molecule with weak hydrogen bonds, so it's constantly fluctuating between elemental states in water, id est, it goes from H2O to 2H+ + O2-, but then the O2- and 2H+ connect with either the same atoms or different atoms at the same time.

Granted, what "Fire Fist" Ace said isn't impossible, but it's still very hard to do, but considering the manga Ace has unlimited amount of firepower he could do it (I guess).

…

On topic, the idea that Ener was not the first electric Logia user is one I've promoted as being very, very plausible; it would seem silly that the Devil Fruits suddenly appeared in the dying years of the Great Age (new technologies...), but we've yet to see any evidence of Devil Fruit users in ancient history. They existed when Roger was alive, that much is sure (under testimony from Saul and Aokiji's fruit), but before him we do not know.

[Polygon]

**It could be possible that the Goro Goro no mi was previously given to the current "God" of Skypeia, but eventually got lost and Enel somehow found it.

This is assuming that the DF growing out of dead body thing is true.**

[FireFistAce 0]

@Polygon:

**It could be possible that the Goro Goro no mi was previously given to the current "God" of Skypeia, but eventually got lost and Enel somehow found it.

This is assuming that the DF growing out of dead body thing is true.**

If that's true, why didn't Gan Fall know about or have the defenses against Eneru until after he was deposed?

[Polygon]

@Fire Fist:

If that's true, why didn't Gan Fall know about or have the defenses against Eneru until after he was deposed?

Because it was lost long before Gal Fall become "god"?

[Ubiq]

Considering that Bilca was destroyed just before Ener showed up in Skypiea, we can assume that he had the Fruit prior to his arrival there. If the Goro Goro Fruit is native to the White Sea, then it was probably Blican in origin rather than Skypiean.

If it was Skypiean rather than Blican in nature, it was removed from that island at least six years ago. I doubt it was ever Skypiean though; if it were, then the Shandians should have been crushed a long time ago.

[AuRoN]

But if Goro Goro is native to the White Sea, how Robin knows about it?

Robin: Probably… the "Goro Goro Fruit"...!!
Among all the different kinds of powers,
It is called... "invincible".
THE POWER OF "LIGHTNING".

[Falcon]

Lots of things get knocked up into the sky by those monster currents so even if the fruit originated on the Blue Seas it had ample opportunity to get into Enel's hands. Since Enel seems to have been born on a sky island and had never previously visited the Blue Seas (thus utterly unaware of things like rubber) it would seem that he is not the first person to eat the goro goro fruit because as already mentioned Robin was aware of it. Perhaps DF fruits grow from a specific type of rare plant, but that plant can produce potentially any DF fruit. Clearly more than one of a specific fruit can exist or else there would be no picture books filled with images and details of the various fruit's powers. Whether more than one fruit of the same type can exist at the same time is unclear though.

[FireFistAce 0]

@|AuRoN|:

But if Goro Goro is native to the White Sea, how Robin knows about it?

Robin: Probably… the "Goro Goro Fruit"...!!
Among all the different kinds of powers,
It is called... "invincible".
THE POWER OF "LIGHTNING".

Good point.

Has anyone thought that the Goro Goro fruit was lost while Roger or another Pirate was up there? Perhaps Roger had just obtained it before entering the White-White Sea, and it fell overboard.

[Denimjo]

On a related note (since it seems to have been mentioned several times already), is there any evidence whatsoever to support the theory that devil fruits 'grow back' after the death of the person that originally ate them? I'd like to know where exactly people are getting this idea from.

[Hitotsumami]

@ "Fire Fist" Ace

Heh, yes, that is what I said.

Roger must have also knew what the fruit was called, or someone on his crew must have told him. However, he didn't eat it. I would have. Hmmm.

@ Denimjo

There is no evidence. As I said in the title of this thread and the first post "Going by a popular DF theory…" so that is why we have been including it.

[Power]

Funny thing is that if we assume that enel falls in to the ocean, and we assume he survives, then odds are no one will find him and thus he will continue dying, restarting his heart, no be able to escape, dying, restarting his heart…

aah yes! what an eternity of fun that will be

[Falcon]

@Denimjo:

On a related note (since it seems to have been mentioned several times already), is there any evidence whatsoever to support the theory that devil fruits 'grow back' after the death of the person that originally ate them? I'd like to know where exactly people are getting this idea from.

Just that there are picture books with some DF's and their abilities listed. How would they know what they do unless someone had eaten one before?

[Tony Tony Choppa]

Falcon: That´s a very good point, but then again, how do you explain the fact that the CP9 members (Kaku and Kalifa) that are the WG´s black ops didn´t have the info on the fruit that they were eating?!
Couse from my point of view, these guys are supposed to be the users of the latest Marine Tech (take for example the seastone cuff)… right?

[Regular]

The DF is like a phoenix? Grows from the ashes of the dead person ? Or maybe the ashes becomes the seeds of the fruit.

Anyway, he defiently drown we havent seen anything that prooves that he cant drown.

[freedom]

In response to the original post regarding if Eneru is the first to eat the goro goro no mi, my guess is no. reasons, we've established that eneru isn't immortal. As for how the other previous owners of the goro goro no mi have died…. there are many ways, seastone and decapatation come to mind, a bit morbid, but gets the job done. how the fruit got up to the white white sea... noboby but oda knows

[Hyper Dingo]

I bet just to be "fun" Roger collected a bunch of devil fruits and left them in his wake. Imagine One piece is like the best devil fruit ever…. I dunno what it would be but eh.

[Mr. All Sunday]

It seems that if there are Devil Fruit in the Blue Sea, there should some in the White Sea, especially if we can assume that it's probably quite large. However, a Devil Fruit could've been blown up with Jaya, although it might've been the Uma Uma no mi, which Pierre ate (although, Roger might've given Gan Forr the Devil Fruit as they were apparently pretty good friends).

[Hitotsumami]

Someone needs to write an SBS to oda. Heh, I would like to read his explanation.

[Hyper Dingo]

Like i always say lets hire some japanese kids!!! Hmm actually he does get SBS questions from other countries….

[Hitotsumami]

I wish I knew how to write Japanese. I would send him too many notes. Serious ones, however. Not ones like "Who was Kumadori's mom!?"

[Hyper Dingo]

@Hitotsumami:

I wish I knew how to write Japanese. I would send him too many notes. Serious ones, however. Not ones like "Who was Kumadori's mom!?"

haha or like if Luffy's penis streches lol

I'm going to get my girlfriend to write one when she's in japan. She's pretty good, been studying it for three years. heh she translates my red and blue XD

[Falcon]

@Tony:

Falcon: That´s a very good point, but then again, how do you explain the fact that the CP9 members (Kaku and Kalifa) that are the WG´s black ops didn´t have the info on the fruit that they were eating?!
Couse from my point of view, these guys are supposed to be the users of the latest Marine Tech (take for example the seastone cuff)… right?

Just because some fruits are known doesn't mean that they all are. Due to their rarity the people who found and ate them in the past could easily have not recorded the fruit they ate and its effects. Also, the islands in the Grand Line seem to be largely isolated from each other for the most part, with only powerful pirates and governments being able to make the journey with reliability. The world of One Piece seems to be much like Earth during the 1400-1600s; travel is possible but so difficult that information is unreliable and travels slowly except in well developed areas (where the marines have bases for example, or large nations like Arabasta).

[Tony Tony Choppa]

Falcon, thank you for your response. But I still don´t get this.
I´m starting a new thread to debate this, so that I can form my opinion about this matter.

[ChopChopCannon]

@Hitotsumami:

Going by a popular DF theory, is Enel the first one to ever eat the lightning fruit?

The popular theory I'm going by is there is only one of every kind of fruit. Also, that when a person dies, the fruit is formed again.

Enel, as far as we have seen, is immortal. That means he was the first one to eat the lightning DF fruit, because if someone before him had eaten it, that other person would still be living.

Even submerged unerwater, I think Enel could still live ( although he would be immobile ). When Luffy was underwater, his DF ability still worked. He couldn't control his DF ability, but it still worked. Same thing for Enel. One of the advantages of his DF is that when he dies, his heart would restart. After drowning underwater, his heart would automatically restart. Since it's impossible for Enel to control his DF when he's dead, this can only lead us to believe that this advantage would happen automatically.

So, as I've said, Enel is immortal. Even drowning can't kill him. This can only show us that Enel is the first person to ever eat the lightning Devil Fruit.

So, I'm just wondering if there is something I might have missed that can prove my idea wrong.

Discuss.

My theory is that there can be more than one of the same fruit.

So hah.

[FireFistAce 0]

@ChopChopCannon:

My theory is that there can be more than one of the same fruit.

So hah.

Fortunately (And unfortunately), that's a negative. Oda clearly stated that there is only one type of each fruit in an SBS. On top of that, he stated that the first bite transfers the power, so two people can't get the power from the same fruit.