Thanks for the awesome chapter BF!
I'll read it now and come back with a commenting post. Just came back from school.
Chapter 438 "Pride" Discussion
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First post to the park, just wanted to say thanks for the chapter, really puts things in a better light than the translation alone suggested and I enjoyed it.
I love Usopp so understandably Im glad he's back ( despite his character being at an all time low at current) and just want to say even if you dislike him you've got to enjoy the chapter alone for the fact it finally brings closure to 2 years worth of luffy/usopp angst since it means we're moving on at last… whether you like the way it's been handled or not at least its closure in time for new arc to begin .Incidenty Aldrich was that 'Captain instead of the Captain' an Iznogood reference ?? lol
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Thanks for all the contributions, but… we got enough mirrors now.
is the last page missing?
Not that I'm aware of.
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Thanks Battle Franky for the chapter~!
The crying was wonderful, glad to have Usopp back! :D
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Nami, Sanji, Zoro, Franky, Robin and Luffy dreams are easier to see if you are getting near. And their own special abilities and characteristcs are well aligned to their dreams. Its very clear to them the path that they have to walk.
Ussop is really the opposite: he is really weak and coward, and wants to be a brave warrior. Its not like he is the best person to fit this role. And its not like he will eat some magical food and suddenly become ridiculous powerfull. He needs to understand that being braveis not just related to physical strengh. Well, its easier to be brave when you are strong :)
And what is Ussop
s scale for brave people: the Elbaf
s giants some would say. But he really envies what he sees everyday: his nakama. He thinks everyone in the crew is better than him.And with this saga, all these myths were nullified for him: even when he scrwed up, the crew gave him the same treatment they would gave to anyone, witch is everything but not insensitive. It was a nice touch from Zoro.
Now Ussop is an empty vessel. And can really improve in the path of being a brave warrior of the sea.
[]s Humberto
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@Taz:
Luffy was not wrong for the decision he made - it was the RIGHT decision and showed his growth as a captain. But what sets him apart from people like Krieg was that he was also compassionate to his crew and does see them as equal, despite their positions. That's what makes the SHs unique/strong/blahblah. In the end even Sanji had to set Luffy straight there. Usopp was acting rashly, but he wasn't trying to undermine the captain because of some "Super Captain" desire (I don't know why people seem to think this). That's why the fight was so awful, you could sympathize with both sides.
Groveling just to be taken back doesn't exactly help someone overcome their insecurity.
I dislike this whole "shut up and fall into line" strict ranking that Zoro encourages. But since the initial translation got a few things wrong, I'll wait for one based on the chapter release before lingering on that.
Thank you!
You probably mentioned all my main problems with this chapter…
I still think Luffy should also have apologized...Captain or not, back then, just like Usopp, he failed as a friend. I don't care about Luffy being the captain.
FRIENDS - that what they are! And that's why I hate Zoro's speech...others think it's cool, but I think Zoro just turned from "most boring sh" to "one of the more unlikeable guys in the whole manga". To me, the whole point of the crew always was that they were friends! The SH aren't the military, it shouldn't be all about hierarchy, if Luffy only wants underlings and servants, fine, he should have taken someone from Foxy. -
Well, I guess there are some benefits to waking up earlier than usual due to insomnia. I now have this chapter to contemplate!
And yeah, what a chapter. Ouch! … I'll have to contemplate it for quite some time (and compare several different translations) before I can say anything deeper about it than the following:
seeing that conveyor belt of cannonballs on Garp's ship really cracked me up!
(It was just what I needed as a "breather" between Zoro's harsh speech and Usopp's tearful return).
Welcome back Usopp!
[thanks to everyone who brought us this week's scans, translations, etc!]
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@~M'Lady~:
Incidenty Aldrich was that 'Captain instead of the Captain' an Iznogood reference ?? lol
Yes it was.
I had no idea Iznogood was internationally known. Or maybe you're french?
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Thanks to everyone that brought the latest chapter, first of all…
And then...they were eight! I know some people are bound to complain, but I'm happy Usopp is a SH, now and always. And that ending with the "long arm bringing him back" definately shows any hard feelings between Luffy and him are finally gone. My only confusion was Garp: was he attacking Luffy to get him back to sea or just because of his position to go after pirates, even his own grandson? Then again, with his actions and Ao Kiji taking a nap on his ship, that could be up for interpretation.
Now I can't wait for the double-dose SH action next week! (both a new chapter with the new journey...and the "Cross Epoch" tale with Toriyama!)
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That chapter is so awesome. First time in a while there is a spread for unsuprising things.
About Garp, I just can't believe he said Luffy should die because someone he curses and complaining about told him. Aokiji should had done something too.
Yeah, they probably expected them to get away, and Garp probably wen't easy on them, but I still don't like it =X -
Thank you!
You probably mentioned all my main problems with this chapter…
I still think Luffy should also have apologized...Captain or not, back then, just like Usopp, he failed as a friend. I don't care about Luffy being the captain.
FRIENDS - that what they are! And that's why I hate Zoro's speech...others think it's cool, but I think Zoro just turned from "most boring sh" to "one of the more unlikeable guys in the whole manga". To me, the whole point of the crew always was that they were friends! The SH aren't the military, it shouldn't be all about hierarchy, if Luffy only wants underlings and servants, fine, he should have taken someone from Foxy.Being friends is one thing. Blatant insubordination is another. They established way back in the Arlong Arc why Luffy is the Captain, and Luffy thought long and hard about abandoning Merry. This wasn't something he took lightly, and Usopp made such a fuss and completely blew Luffy off. It's enxcusable of Usopp to lose faith in his captain, or even more importantly, his best friend.
Yes, Luffy is Usopp's best friend, and that's part of the reason that Usopp has low self-esteem. Words of encouragement rarely come from the other Strawhats, especially Zoro. During Enies Lobby, Sanji was the first one to open praise Usopp for his ability. His actions are overbearing at times, but he means well. The only crewmember that Usopp has bonded with besides Luffy is Chopper, and that's because Chopper is young and naive and believes everything Luffy tells him. Usopp was not only being insubordinate against his captain, but also his best friend.
In a way, Robin semi-bonded with him during this chapter, but Robin is like a motherly figure to all the Strawhats. Even Zoro the pessimist sees the value in Robin. But ultimately, It's Usopp and Luffy who depend on her for advice.
Usopp and Luffy are inseperable. Zoro may have been Luffy's first Crewmember and his equal in strength, but Usopp and Luffy will always share the strongest bond. That's why it was thought necessary by Zoro that Usopp needed to apologize, and why Luffy didn't: Usopp hurt his best friend's feelings.
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thanks battle franky!!!!!! for the Link guy (got the Wii but not the new zelda so i might be wrong) if iznogood is french then he is surpassed only by asterix in your international cartoons
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I am aware of that and I know Usopp screwed up back then, but the thing is - stuff like Luffy thinking about the decision…Usopp wasn't aware of them. It was just, all of a sudden, Luffy happily announced to get rid of Merry. Then there was the moment with Lufy saying Usopp should just leave...now, talking about hurting your friends feelings, huh?
Both should have apologized for being anything but not the good friends they want to be...if it is about friendship, really, it should be about both of them, they should be equal and they should both apologize.
Still, the only difference I can see is that Luffy is the captain and as captain it seems like he doesn't have to apologize...and thus, I just dislike Zoro's way of thinking...it's something I can see with some random villains, but not the main characters. -
Nami, Sanji, Zoro, Franky, Robin and Luffy dreams are easier to see if you are getting near. And their own special abilities and characteristcs are well aligned to their dreams. Its very clear to them the path that they have to walk.
Ussop is really the opposite: he is really weak and coward, and wants to be a brave warrior. Its not like he is the best person to fit this role. And its not like he will eat some magical food and suddenly become ridiculous powerfull. He needs to understand that being braveis not just related to physical strengh. Well, its easier to be brave when you are strong :)
And what is Ussop
s scale for brave people: the Elbaf
s giants some would say. But he really envies what he sees everyday: his nakama. He thinks everyone in the crew is better than him.And with this saga, all these myths were nullified for him: even when he scrwed up, the crew gave him the same treatment they would gave to anyone, witch is everything but not insensitive. It was a nice touch from Zoro.
Now Ussop is an empty vessel. And can really improve in the path of being a brave warrior of the sea.
[]s Humberto[/QUOTE]
i'm not quite sure how you arrive at your conclusions to be honest.Franky, maybe. Nami, sure. Luffy, almost. Zoro and Sanji no way on earth. by far Usopp has the easiest dream to realise. it's not a matter of being the strongest or bravest or travelling, it's just a matter of being brave or strong and it's by far the easiest to measure.
Sanji has no idea where All Blue is, all he knows is that he must have faith in his captain to lead him there. Zoro has no idea what the difference in strength between him and Mihawk is, all he knows is that by following his captain he'll get the necessary experience required to become strong enough. Luffy doesn't have any idea how many battles or obstacles he's going to face. Robin's dream is based on pot luck at this moment in time. You really can't compare the dreams. Usopp's is simply to not shake in battle, that's something that no amount of experience will fix, that's something to do with your heart and Usopp's is weak because he deems it so.
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Zoro owned, and a lot of people think Garp did, but I think he's a jackass.
@Fire Fist:
I didn't like Lucchi. I don't like Soldier robots. As useful as they are, they're nothing more than tools to be exploited. A killer who doesn't think for himself is not my idea of a great villian.
What are you talking about? Lucci clearly thought for himself, and was as defiant as could be under his superior. Spandam would never have had the balls to really try to berate him anyway. You could try to say he wasn't that cool because he had a direct boss, but it's also pretty obvious, from looking at Spandam, that Lucci could have had a higher rank. He was even offered a promotion. But his character loved his job, the killing, and stayed where he could be satisfied.
So he wasn't a Kuro clone or drone, his role was the ultimate killer: until he was knocked out he was calm, cold, and vicious.
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Yes it was.
I had no idea Iznogood was internationally known. Or maybe you're french?
Nah I'm not French I'm an English lass :).
I'm not sure if it is especially known I just remeber we used to get the cartoon dubbed over here, but I did read some of the books that I could get my hands on (I used to be a big fan of Asterix so was keen on reading Goscinny's other work). -
I am aware of that and I know Usopp screwed up back then, but the thing is - stuff like Luffy thinking about the decision…Usopp wasn't aware of them. It was just, all of a sudden, Luffy happily announced to get rid of Merry. Then there was the moment with Lufy saying Usopp should just leave...now, talking about hurting your friends feelings, huh?
Both should have apologized for being anything but not the good friends they want to be...if it is about friendship, really, it should be about both of them, they should be equal and they should both apologize.
Still, the only difference I can see is that Luffy is the captain and as captain it seems like he doesn't have to apologize...and thus, I just dislike Zoro's way of thinking...it's something I can see with some random villains, but not the main characters.Thank you, Ace.
Papts, I think you're missing the point of Zoro's speech. While Luffy and Usopp are best friends and better friends than anyone else on the crew, and while Usopp didn't know about all the consideration Luffy put into leaving Merry… read the chapter. Luffy started the discussion way he did because he didn't want to hurt Usopp's feelings, then Usopp proceeded to a) question Luffy's judgement, b) tell him he thought Merry was just a tool, c) ignore his orders and try to tell the others what to do, d) call everyone idiots, e) say Luffy isn't a real captain, f) then say Luffy didn't care about leaving Merry. That was all BEFORE challenging him to a duel. In contrast, all Luffy said was that Usopp wasn't a real carpenter, and after ALL that shit Usopp said, pull his authority as a captain, then tell Usopp he can leave - then try and take it back.
And Usopp knew from the beginning that Merry was going to die. Before ANYONE else did.
Anyone who thinks Luffy is in the wrong is just… I don't know. I mean, what the hell?
While Luffy and Usopp or friends, Luffy is also the captain. Zoro's speech does nothing to interfere with the fact that they're all friends, but the fact of the matter is Luffy is the captain, and Usopp's insubordination is way, way out of line. Of course Luffy is sorry for telling Usopp he could leave - but Luffy isn't the one who left the crew. Usopp isn't the captain.
Zoro's not a villain - Zoro's what I like to call mature. Piracy isn't a game. Challenging someone to a duel isn't a game. Usopp could've handled himself like a man, but he failed at even that in his apology - Luffy and Zoro took pity on him and forgave him.
Edit: Also... people weren't complaining about the "Super Captain Usopp" crap because it sounded like Usopp was trying to undermine Luffy's authority. People were complaining about it because it was pretentious.
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thanks battle franky!!!!!! for the Link guy (got the Wii but not the new zelda so i might be wrong) if iznogood is french then he is surpassed only by asterix in your international cartoons
they're done by the same author.
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Now that I have read the whole chapter, I must say that Garp is pure badassnes. And Zoro is too. I think that he is the only one strawhat, who really understand what is mean to be in pirate crew.
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"Pride" is an excellent chapter title! I can think of so many ways (both positive and negative) that pride plays a major role in the events of this chapter.
There's also the fact that "pride" is a common term for a group of lions. Now that the Mugiwara have symbolically gone from being "lambs" (Merry) to being "Lions" (the new ship), I think we'll see "pride" issues a lot more frequently.
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@Fire Fist:
Being friends is one thing. Blatant insubordination is another. They established way back in the Arlong Arc why Luffy is the Captain, and Luffy thought long and hard about abandoning Merry. This wasn't something he took lightly, and Usopp made such a fuss and completely blew Luffy off. It's enxcusable of Usopp to lose faith in his captain, or even more importantly, his best friend.
Yes, Luffy is Usopp's best friend, and that's part of the reason that Usopp has low self-esteem. Words of encouragement rarely come from the other Strawhats, especially Zoro. During Enies Lobby, Sanji was the first one to open praise Usopp for his ability. His actions are overbearing at times, but he means well. The only crewmember that Usopp has bonded with besides Luffy is Chopper, and that's because Chopper is young and naive and believes everything Luffy tells him. Usopp was not only being insubordinate against his captain, but also his best friend.
In a way, Robin semi-bonded with him during this chapter, but Robin is like a motherly figure to all the Strawhats. Even Zoro the pessimist sees the value in Robin. But ultimately, It's Usopp and Luffy who depend on her for advice.
Usopp and Luffy are inseperable. Zoro may have been Luffy's first Crewmember and his equal in strength, but Usopp and Luffy will always share the strongest bond. That's why it was thought necessary by Zoro that Usopp needed to apologize, and why Luffy didn't: Usopp hurt his best friend's feelings.
Thank you, Ace.
Papts, I think you're missing the point of Zoro's speech. While Luffy and Usopp are best friends and better friends than anyone else on the crew, and while Usopp didn't know about all the consideration Luffy put into leaving Merry… read the chapter. Luffy started the discussion way he did because he didn't want to hurt Usopp's feelings, then Usopp proceeded to a) question Luffy's judgement, b) tell him he thought Merry was just a tool, c) ignore his orders and try to tell the others what to do, d) call everyone idiots, e) say Luffy isn't a real captain, f) then say Luffy didn't care about leaving Merry. That was all BEFORE challenging him to a duel. In contrast, all Luffy said was that Usopp wasn't a real carpenter, and after ALL that shit Usopp said, pull his authority as a captain, then tell Usopp he can leave - then try and take it back.
And Usopp knew from the beginning that Merry was going to die. Before ANYONE else did.
Anyone who thinks Luffy is in the wrong is just… I don't know. I mean, what the hell?
While Luffy and Usopp or friends, Luffy is also the captain. Zoro's speech does nothing to interfere with the fact that they're all friends, but the fact of the matter is Luffy is the captain, and Usopp's insubordination is way, way out of line. Of course Luffy is sorry for telling Usopp he could leave - but Luffy isn't the one who left the crew. Usopp isn't the captain.
Zoro's not a villain - Zoro's what I like to call mature. Piracy isn't a game. Challenging someone to a duel isn't a game. Usopp could've handled himself like a man, but he failed at even that in his apology - Luffy and Zoro took pity on him and forgave him.
Edit: Also... people weren't complaining about the "Super Captain Usopp" crap because it sounded like Usopp was trying to undermine Luffy's authority. People were complaining about it because it was pretentious.
two quality posts
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two quality posts
Speaking of pride …
:ninja:
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lol, oops. fixed.
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Thanks BF~ :)
Wee… Now we know what Garp is famous for. Finally Usopp is back... was hoping he'd keep his SogeKing personality. Maybe he will when danger comes~ :D
The new ship ain't showing any power here... There better be some counter attack in next chapter. And maybe Usop will show Garp that Yassop's son can do anti-1000 cannon balls attack~ ;D
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The reason why Usopp failed by going into "Super Captain Usopp" mode is that by doing so he proved Zoro right. Being away from the crew hasn't changed him at all, he's still a childish brat who thinks that being a pirate is all fun and games. They can't take someone with them who is not aware of the dangers they'll be facing. It showed that after all this time Usopp still thought that he was in the right and that they could just hush up their duel with a joke as if it were a bad dream. He does not see himself as the captain, that much is true, but he doesn't see Luffy as the captain either. Insubordination cannot be an issue if the crew is to survive in the New World. They're friends, but they're also a pirate crew which can't afford members leaving on a whim because they won't listen to the captain.
Loving the Zoro…
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Thankyou for the new chap ^^
a very beautiful way to end the arc. and I must say… I agree with Zoro, eventhough I thought his speech is a bit rash, but he is true. other posters already made a great posts about this.
so the crew is complete now, can't wait to see the next adventure ^^
btw, Aokiji is really lazy isn't he? XD -
That was remarkably uncomfortable to read. I liked the spoiler, now, I dunno.
sigh I dunno.
Though Zoro needs to take the shards of yubashiri out of his butt.
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lol, oops. fixed.
Good save!
(Not that your post wasn't quality or anything – just that, well, as you know, it's bad form to call so much attention to oneself)
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they're done by the same author.
aha,sure i didn't knew that but dude seriously you know a lot!!:blink:
i think zoro is smilling in the last page
now about garp i am sure he is super strong (maybe weaker only than sengoku,aokiji,akainu and kizaru in the marines or stronger than some of them) but he didn't make anything good
yet,so he threw cannonballs with his hands,big deal
luffy threw those huge pillars back at kuina's ships when they were being chased in alabasta,zoro lift a house against mr.1,tom threw a ship in the air and then the masts
like i said big deal..
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Thanks a bunch, BF.
I have a feeling I'm going to love this chapter.
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Dude, he throw them like baseballs. Do you have any idea how much canonballs weight?
Just put me think that how powerful Sengoku is…
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Thanks BF!
the chapter has reinforced my thoughts from the spoiler.
i'm waiting for a translation, i'd like to know what usopp really said… b/c apparantly the "Super Captain Usopp" was really "Vice Captain Usopp", and the "they got me a new boat" was really "and there's a new ship", so since my japanese is limited, i'd like to know what he really says.nonetheless, regardless of what he said, he still acted like he was forced to apologize when he was faced with the reality of being left on W7. i think this is the biggest reason some disliked his apologize, at least for me, this is my biggest concern. but i'm glad Usopp rejoined, and i'm happy he's back. i'm just hoping some of his usual hijinx will go away.
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Upon reflection, it made me cry a bit. (… what. My thoughts are sadder than chapters actually are. And. I cry at everything. Even dramatic commercials. So it's not weird at all. Stop staring. Stop it! Y... you'll make me cry again! >.>)
Usopp's heart is still so weak.
We either just witnessed the death of "Great Captain Usopp" and the birth of Usopp, or a sign that Usopp genuinely will never change. I hope for the former and fear the latter. I usually have a lot of faith in Oda on bringing things to satisfying ends, but...
They were both wrong, but Usopp was more wrong, and I think he hurt himself and Luffy more than Luffy hurt him; him apologizing was good.
Is there room on pirate ships for artistic dreamers who may have mildly good aim?Up to this point, Usopp's gotten stronger physically, and he's loved his nakama and had belief in them, but he has no belief in himself or his right to be with them. The lies as Sogeking and the lies up to his apology were a sign that he still didn't have that faith. Does he have it now? We can't say yet.
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I kinda improved the quality with Photoshop general effects, dunno what quality it is though. Someone check and tell me? MQ?
I'll try to make a better one if no one does.
http://rapidshare.com/files/7456641/OP_438_somethingQ.rar.htmlI can't help but love the front view of the ship with the SH mark.
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If Sogeking doesn't return then that means that not every member of the crew have a bounty. And I don't think the marines would jump to the conclusion that Usopp is Sogeking.
So the Straw Hats aren't so special bounty-wise now? -
Luffy has nothing to apologise to Usopp.
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sogeking will return.. he was 300% more cooler with that form
plus it will boost his confidence more..i think -
@AD-HD:
Dude, he throw them like baseballs. Do you have any idea how much canonballs weight?
Just put me think that how powerful Sengoku is…
many people in one piece have done things like that.with the flow one piece is progressing with the non straw-hat characters we will have to wait years till garp shows his serious self (propably when he will have to stop the SH no matter what)
don't get over excited cuz he didn't do anything special
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Thanks a lot BF ^_^
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many people in one piece have done things like that.with the flow one piece is progressing with the non straw-hat characters we will have to wait years till garp shows his serious self (propably when he will have to stop the SH no matter what)
don't get over excited cuz he didn't do anything special
I think he did. His is probably one of the most powerful dudes in series.
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Actually what annoys me in this chapter isn't Usopp's antics as I know what to expect from him and got used to it now, but the Marine nonsense. Sengoku himself obviously knows a 300 millions berry worth pirate is in Water 7 or in the vicinity, and who does he send to capture him?
His grandfather, who already let him go once, and who apparently now has no problem not only to arrest his grandson, but to kill him. As funny as it is, it still paint Garp as a complete douchebag, and Sengoku as an incompetent fool. You'd think with the HQ so close from W7 they'd use more forces to catch Luffy and the crew, and they wouldn't have waited one week before moving.
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Wow great thanks everybody who provided with the chapter, this truly is a perfect birthday present. =]
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Actually what annoys me in this chapter isn't Usopp's antics as I know what to expect from him and got used to it now, but the Marine nonsense. Sengoku himself obviously knows a 300 millions berry worth pirate is in Water 7 or in the vicinity, and who does he send to capture him?
His grandfather, who already let him go once, and who apparently now has no problem not only to arrest his grandson, but to kill him. As funny as it is, it still paint Garp as a complete douchebag, and Sengoku as an incompetent fool. You'd think with the HQ so close from W7 they'd use more forces to catch Luffy and the crew, and they wouldn't have waited one week before moving.
Well, I don't blame Sengoku. I would order Garp right back to go nab Luffy as well, it's either he'd try or I'd chew his ass for it.
But Garp really seemed like a douchebag here. However, it was kind of a stupid attack in retrospect, and it may only be a feint on his part. I mean, with his apparently mad strength and Kiji on the ship, a real effort would have probably gotten results by now.
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So, what's the point of the new ship if it can't take a cannon shell? Or can it? And shouldn't Franky be able to destroy them like he did at Enies Lobby?
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Well, I don't blame Sengoku. I would order Garp right back to go nab Luffy as well, it's either he'd try or I'd chew his ass for it.
But Garp really seemed like a douchebag here. However, it was kind of a stupid attack in retrospect, and it may only be a feint on his part. I mean, with his apparently mad strength and Kiji on the ship, a real effort would have probably gotten results by now.
I agree, i believe that Garps actually allowing Luffy to escape by putting in a half arsed effort as opposed to allowing the HQ or Sengoku to send someone who might really try and capture Luffy. The only dummy bit by Garp was telling Sengoku he let Luffy stay on W7.
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the one who will save them is from Garp is….
Sogeking..He'll snipe them from the top of KoB...
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This post is deleted!
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I agree, i believe that Garps actually allowing Luffy to escape by putting in a half arsed effort as opposed to allowing the HQ or Sengoku to send someone who might really try and capture Luffy. The only dummy bit by Garp was telling Sengoku he let Luffy stay on W7.
I agree with you here.
And you know, Garp is one of the Monkey family. I guess that he is not to suppose to be so smart anyway.
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Yeah, it'll be a combined effort from Usopp and Franky.
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Well, I don't blame Sengoku. I would order Garp right back to go nab Luffy as well, it's either he'd try or I'd chew his ass for it.
But Garp really seemed like a douchebag here. However, it was kind of a stupid attack in retrospect, and it may only be a feint on his part. I mean, with his apparently mad strength and Kiji on the ship, a real effort would have probably gotten results by now.
It makes you wonder about under what pretext was Garp's meeting with Dragon about.
But, we know that the only reason why Garp is there at W7 in the first place is because of Coby/Helmeppo and that Aokiji is there to screw with Robin's mind a little bit more. I'm confused about the lack of an HQ response at all, but it's nothing to be concerned about when I have two finals in two days. Oy.