These two characters have INCREASED greatly up to To this current chapter. Out of Zoro and Luffy, who has increased in strength the most? Which one of their powers do you think is better?
Luffy or Zoro??!!
-
-
They're both two of the strongest characters in One Piece. You can't say whose moves are "better", because their styles are completely different.
Luffy is a brawler who uses his limbs to fight. Zoro is a swordsman who uses varying sword styles to fight.
Really, both of them were incredibly strong from the beginning. The only thing they learned were new moves. Zoro trained to learn these moves, but Luffy came up with them through experimentation with his rubber body. Because Luffy is a combat genius, it's easy for him to develop new techniques.
-
What about Zoro's techniques? particularly the "Breath.?" You can NOT train to learn that skill, a technique like that only comes from experience. Zoro's powers seems to be based more on "Sensory input" like his "spirit." "Red-Haired" Shanks displayed a "spirit", something similar to Zoro's (Shanks spirit was more effective).
Luffy's Gears are more for "brawling" like you said but he seems to rely on more physical nature. I meant to ask you which one of these would you like to have?
-
These two characters have INCREASED greatly up to To this current chapter. Out of Zoro and Luffy, who has increased in strength the most? Which one of their powers do you think is better?
Doubtful. Luffy probably hasn't increased in strength all that much; at base form, he's probably equivalent to Zoro, but using Gears he's superior, as far as fighting is concerned.
-
What, How so?…....^^^
Thou he slay me, yet shall I trust him!!!!
-
Let's not forget Sanji either. Before this arc he couldn't even hurt Luffy (badly) due to his blunt attacks, but now he has his diable jump.
And I used to agree with the "strength stays the same" idea, but I changed my mind. I think that the SHs do indeed great great in many ways, and these adventures are great exercise.
Take Usopp for example. In his first arc, he knocked down and out by a random guy with a stone club. In Alabasta, he took a 4-ton bat in the face and could still move. In Enies Lobby, he fell off a building among other things. I think he's getting stronger over time.
So, the same can probably be said for the rest. I think that Zoro's stamina to cuts is in thanks to surviving Mr. 1.
-
If Luffy's used Gears, Zoro would be finished in an instant.
Ask yourself… could Zoro beat Lucci? I think not.
-
@Private:
If Luffy's used Gears, Zoro would be finished in an instant.
Ask yourself… could Zoro beat Lucci? I think not.
But what about his Asura. If we're compaing power-ups, then remember we don't even know that much about Zoro's. I think it was kept mysterious for a reason. As long as Zoro's not overwhelmed by Luffy's speed then he's okay.
And frankly, I think that every One Piece vs. battle will end in a near even fight. Usopp lost but did okay, and everyone else would probably fight even. That's why Nami interupted Zoro vs. Luffy…we're never gonna see that fight concluded!
-
@Private:
If Luffy's used Gears, Zoro would be finished in an instant.
Ask yourself… could Zoro beat Lucci? I think not.
That's comparing Luffy with Gears to base Zoro. While a beter comparison would be Gears Luffy against Asura Zoro. Though seeing as how Zoro finished off his opponnent (after turing their strongest attack to mist) in one blow in that form, it's hard to really gauge how much stronger he is (and if he's any faster or more durable.) Or even exactly what it is. But regardless, it shouldn't be disregarded as they're comparable power-ups. Just as Luffy with Gears would be compared to Sanji and the power of his Diable Jamble.
-
Luffy would probably live through Azura, though. Luffy never goes down in one hit, and neither does Zoro.
However, Luffy can dish out two hits faster than Zoro can. Speed is always more important than power. It's used for defense and also power. Something has more power if it has more speed, you know.
-
@Private:
If Luffy's used Gears, Zoro would be finished in an instant.
Ask yourself… could Zoro beat Lucci? I think not.
Lucchi was an opponent that was made to be invincible by Oda-sensei even Luffy wouldn't have been able to defeat him without that boost from Usopp reminding him why he has to go that extra mile in which he pulled out Jet Gatling Gun.
And yes, I do believe either Zoro or Sanji could have defeated Lucchi if they had fought him first. I mean, hell Lucchi would have done what every main villian seems to do and just stand there and watch while their opponent busts out some kind of new move that kicks their ass.
-
Well… Until we see Azura again, this question seems to be far too hard for me. I'm going to go read that chapter again.
-
@Private:
Luffy would probably live through Azura, though. Luffy never goes down in one hit, and neither does Zoro.
However, Luffy can dish out two hits faster than Zoro can. Speed is always more important than power. It's used for defense and also power. Something has more power if it has more speed, you know.
Wow….this is sucky logic? How can Zoro only dish out one hit while Luffy does two (and are you talking about twin bullet)? Zoro with his 9 sword attack is probably just as fast of an attacker.
That and, Luffy would be stunned regardless if he was hit once by Zoro. Cuts are serious in OP.
-
I agree with Onemoment! Zoro has techniques that we don't know much about. It was stated that Zoro's "Breath" technique could predict movements. Also onemoment mentions Zoro's "Asura" which really has yet to be revealed. Zoro strength seems to be based more on Sensory input. Red-haired Shanks displayed some serious "spirit" action as well and his strength is incredible.
So what if Luffy uses the gears, Gear 2 was basically a copy of "Soru", as we saw Zoro easily handle that when he faced Kaku. Not too mention the fact that Luffy's Endurance and stamina decreases. Luffy's gear 3 is based more on strength but who is too say that Zoro's "Spirit" techniques does NOT increase his strength? Let's Not mention the fact that gear 3 sacrifices speed.
-
Okay… we know that the Steel-Cutting technique Zoro used is _not as powerful as Asura.
Now here is what Asura looks like. Kaku's attack is him spinning his long neck around in a cirlular motion until he releases it, sending a shockwave out around him. It doesn't seem particuarly fast, and it requires a good 2 pages to charge up.
From what I see, Kaku went in for the kill and Zoro countered it (Similar to what he did with 'Lion's Song' to Mr. 1 back in Arabasta). Because Oda skips the actual swing of the sword, we can't determine how fast Asura actually moves, but from what I see, it seems like more of a defensive technique._
-
You do realize that Zoro just used One-sword Style "Iai Shishi Sonson!(Lion Song)." That was Not the "BREATH", it is a technique which allows him to cut "anything."
You can NOT determine the speed or what type of attack "Asura" is from just looking at the panel. It is an attack which has not been explained in detail.^^^^
Thou he slay me, yet shall I trust him!!!!
-
cough
From Chapter 195:
http://groups.msn.com/onepiecemangav-3/volume211.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=4089
http://groups.msn.com/onepiecemangav-3/volume211.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=4090
Iitoryu Lion's song is the move associated with the "Breath of Steel". They're one in the same.
And Breath cannot enable him to cut ANYTHING. Only steel. Period. That's why it didn't cut Kaku when Kaku didn't do Tekkai.
-
Generally, Oda will display some sort of movement by action lines if something is actually moving.
Also, Zoro can hear the breath of objects only when he is close to death.
-
@Fire Fist:
cough
From Chapter 195:
http://groups.msn.com/onepiecemangav-3/volume211.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=4089
http://groups.msn.com/onepiecemangav-3/volume211.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=4090
Iitoryu Lion's song is the move associated with the "Breath of Steel". They're one in the same.
And Breath cannot enable him to cut ANYTHING. Only steel. Period. That's why it didn't cut Kaku when Kaku didn't do Tekkai.
The breath technique is different….
Stephen's scripts; One Piece Volume 21 : Ideal Nation Chapter 195 Mr. Bushido
Zoro: "{The falling rock was like a living thing... I felt its presence...
Not presence... it was stronger than that... just like...
"BREATH"...
The breath... of rock....
Trees have the breath of trees.
Soil has the breath of...
Is that what he meant...?}< <sensei: you="" see,="" there="" are="" swordsmen="" in="" this="" world="" that="" can="" cut<strong="">NOTHING."
This technique allows the user to cut NOTHING which is the "Breath" of the opponent. Which possibly allows him to cut anything.</sensei:>
-
I'd just like to point out that the reason why the Lion attack didn't work on Kaku was because he deflected it with Rankyaku Roudan. Hence, why he said Rankyaku in the panel before and why he said he could either choose to take the attack with Tekkai or not. In this case, he chose to simply deflect it.
You can even see the movement of Kaku's feet going upwards, not to mention the attack as well.
-
I'm confused? Why is there always a user wanting to compare one Straw Hat to another Straw Hat in either fighting, character development, etc.
This is almost as bad as multiple verus fights I have seen and been patheticly been apart of in the past.
Zoro is strong for a sword's men, while Luffy is a strong fighter. If that one statement I just made still doesn't solve anything for you then I suggest that you read the chapters again that deal with Luffy and Zoro becoming stronger. Maybe then, just maybe, you'll understand the whole thing.
Plus the whole fight of Zoro verus Luffy was worked out halfway in Movie Five and in the Whiskey Peak Arc. They would technically be at an equal match.
-
This is getting…really stupid. Zoro can only use steel cutting at near death? Zoro can predict moves with his breath? What is this?
And why are we analying Asura again? It's not "just" a defensive techinque, simply for the fact that I hate this level of categorizing--it could have more uses. It's so limiting that's it's disgusting. In the next arc we could learn all new dimensions anout Asura. Oh yeah, and we seem to be forgeting that Asura doesn't seem to drain Zoro as Gear 2 does with Luffy--so what about that?
Besides, a Zoro vs. Luffy fight won't just come down to that. Everyone always goes, "if he uses that move," but what if using that strongest move is a bad idea? It's like jet gatling, everyone complained about how Luffy should have used it earlier, but think about it. If you were in a fist fight, how easy is it to start wailing on some guy with punches without leaving yourself wide open?
Zoro vs. Luffy...there's no predicting it, and I'd like to leave it at that.
-
but think about it. If you were in a fist fight, how easy is it to start wailing on some guy with punches without leaving yourself wide open?
Being in a lot of fights I can actually agree with the Lucci verus Luffy fight to some degree of our reality. Mainly since you always use your most powerful moves after testing out your weaker ones beforehand, no point in trying to end the fight in one blow if your opponent can take that one blow, even if it is your most powerful attack. Since they have not been weakened enough at the point to successfully receive the "ultimate" blow.
-
This is getting…really stupid. Zoro can only use steel cutting at near death? Zoro can predict moves? What is this?
And why are we analying Asura again? It's not "just" a defensive techinque, simply for the fact that I hate this level of categorizing--it could have more. It's so limiting that's it's disgusting. In the next arc we could learn all new dimensions anout Asura. Oh yeah, and we seem to be forgeting that Asura doesn't seem to drain Zoro as Gear 2 does with Luffy--so what about that?
Besides, a Zoro vs. Luffy fight won't just come down to that. Everyone always goes, "if he uses that move," but what if using that strongest move is a bad idea? It's like jet gatling, everyone complained about how Luffy should have used it earlier, but think about it. If you were in a fist fight, how easy is it to start wailing on some guy with punches without leaving yourself wide open?
Zoro vs. Luffy...there's no predicting it, and I'd like to leave it at that
.
Agreed!^^^ I guess I was wrong concerning Zoro's breath technique…...oh well spilt milk.
-
Wasn't part of the question who has improved the most? NOT just who is stronger. I'd say Luffy has because speed wins battles. Everytime, period.
-I'm so emo that my shirt don't fit.
-
I would say physically Luffy improved more than Zoro but mentally Zoro all the way…
I don't know if someone noticed that... He is calmer (but still bad-ass) now than he was in the beginning...
I have a feeling than in the end of the series there will be a friendly match between them to see which is stronger... Fist or swords... and we all know who will be the winner... ;)
-
Here is my take on what this Breath "technique" is:
First of all I don't think it should be called a technique since that would liken it to something like a move or some kind or procedure. Being able to sense the "breath" in all things is a skill - an ability. Zoro's near death experience made him more in tune with the things around him (trees, rock, NATURE). He became aware of the lifeforce or energy of objects that didn't seem alive to him before. Understanding the breath or lifeforce of these objects empowers Zoro with the power to choose to cut or not cut them, sort of like if you know the breath of something, then you know how to end the breath or something. Hence this ability or skill grants Zoro a dominance over everything that he hears the breath of.
In theory, Zoro can apply this ability to all of his moves (like in Skypea). He just needs to focus a little to hear the breath of something he wants to cut and he should be able to do it. I think the Lion song move is just one of those KO moves that is in every swordsmen's vocab; it's definitely a finisher move. So it's not a big surprise to me that he chose to use it against Kaku. However I'd like to add a bit more theory behind the Kaku fight: tekkai is not just any iron armor, cutting a tekkai user is not like cutting a block of iron. While I have no doubt in my mind that Zoro can cut through and block of iron, cutting through Kaku's bigan (his nose) is a different story because tekkai is backed with the power of the user. It gets stronger when the user is stronger, which means its that much more difficult to cut than steel or iron when the user is hella strong.
Back on topic:
BEFORE the Gears, Zoro would've, imo, grown much more than Luffy.AFTER the Gears, I think their growth is the same. I would say that when Zoro and Luffy met, Luffy was probably stronger, so with the equal amount of growth, Luffy is probably stronger than Zoro still. I wont say any more…
PS: ever tried to slash (NOT PIERCE) some tires? It's pretty imposible. Rubber is tuuuuffffffff stuff
-
What did you use a kitchen knife? If you had one of zoro's swords you'd find slicing through a stone fairly easy
About luffy and zoro, I think they are and always will be equals. There is just no evidence that shows that gears is superior to asura. Zoro has proven he can keep up with soru and so has luffy.
And about the lucci argument zoro had no problem with kaku apart from his tekkai once he learned asura he beat him in 2 seconds flat. Now you can say what you want about asura but if zoro where to face lucci he would have found the right time to use it.
The only eveidence we have of zoro vs luffy is whiskey peak and they were equal. Now this fight was put in the series for a purpose and its probably to tell us their equal e.g roger vs whitebeard
-
asura is a projection from zoro's spirit,it's an attack,not a powerup
it's 9swords style asura something like one sword style lion's song (shin shin son son),it's an attack
the real powerup is his spirit being powered so that it can project images
-
luffy hasnt increase in strength at all since the begining. the only increase in power he has is his gears. Zoro trains in all of his free time. zorros power has increased more then luffy.
-
Wasn't part of the question who has improved the most? NOT just who is stronger. I'd say Luffy has because speed wins battles. Everytime, period.
All I have to say is…..EXPERIENCE KILLS
-
asura is a projection from zoro's spirit,it's an attack,not a powerup
it's 9swords style asura something like one sword style lion's song (shin shin son son),it's an attack
the real powerup is his spirit being powered so that it can project images
He didn't say any named technique (One Mist Silver) until before Kaku was slashed. He ran for some distance, as opposed to his usual launching an attack before he does it.
Then look at every Strawhat's upgrade this arc, Nami got new weapon which isn't one attack, Chopper while not an upgrade, displayed a new form, Sanji also displayed a "new" form that wasn't an attack, same with luffy. So why not Zoro? The only evidence pointing to it not being a form similar to Diable Jambel or Gears is the fact that he only did one technique in that state, but he just happened to have finished off his opponent in one move.
Another thing to take note was that he transformed partially when Kaku started attacking, and he just yelled stop shocking Kaku. As opposed to that "illusion" being part of some technique (unless you once again assume that had he continued, he would've automatically without control done a technique…). He even talked for a few panels after he did Asura. And didn't attack till he said "One Mist Silver" at the very end of the next page. The fact that you said it's a projection of his heightened (and evil) spirit would lead you to believe that it's just that, a "state of heightened spirit." Which he named Asura, and in which he cut through something a steel-cutting technique couldn't cut through (and which Jabura fled from infuriated at Kaku doing that, despite his ability to use tekkai, one thing to take note also is that that Amadedachi was a lot more concentrated and powerful than the first one.)
I might've repeated myself but I don't see how you can states it's an attack when there's evidence pointing otherwise. It's like with Luffy's first display of Gear 3 really.
-
and I always thought the breath move was a gamble for zoro.
since he dont know how to use it. -
I don't think most of you guys are even answering the question.
-
He didn't say any named technique (One Mist Silver) until before Kaku was slashed. He ran for some distance, as opposed to his usual launching an attack before he does it.
Then look at every Strawhat's upgrade this arc, Nami got new weapon which isn't one attack, Chopper while not an upgrade, displayed a new form, Sanji also displayed a "new" form that wasn't an attack, same with luffy. So why not Zoro? The only evidence pointing to it not being a form similar to Diable Jambel or Gears is the fact that he only did one technique in that state, but he just happened to have finished off his opponent in one move.
Another thing to take note was that he transformed partially when Kaku started attacking, and he just yelled stop shocking Kaku. As opposed to that "illusion" being part of some technique (unless you once again assume that had he continued, he would've automatically without control done a technique…). He even talked for a few panels after he did Asura. And didn't attack till he said "One Mist Silver" at the very end of the next page. The fact that you said it's a projection of his heightened (and evil) spirit would lead you to believe that it's just that, a "state of heightened spirit." Which he named Asura, and in which he cut through something a steel-cutting technique couldn't cut through (and which Jabura fled from infuriated at Kaku doing that, despite his ability to use tekkai, one thing to take note also is that that Amadedachi was a lot more concentrated and powerful than the first one.)
I might've repeated myself but I don't see how you can states it's an attack when there's evidence pointing otherwise. It's like with Luffy's first display of Gear 3 really.
i am too bored to explain again what is written in a scanlated page from zoro vs kaku in the first page of this thread
zoro does not grow 3 heads and six arms
he does not attack with 9 swords but with 3,the others are projections from his spirit so it is difficult to dodge
like the puma,the lion, and the gorilla moves asura represents a creature
zoro doesn't have attacks more than 1 with the same name
he doesn't have for example lion's song and lion's ass
it is ittouryuu (style) iai (animal) shishi sonson (attack) and kyuttoryuu (style) asura (creature) ichibugin (attack)
also kaku did not use tekkai in the asura move,he did his spinning rankyoku move and the second he finished it zoro broke it or turned it inti mist and attacked him
as far as i believe zoro hasn't mastered the breath of all things fully and he stated it in alabasta after the fights when he was training in the palace
also sanji's upgrade wasn't diable jamble (if you mean diable jump) but the devil leg thing and zoro's wasn't asura but his spirit power up
the thing we should take from that fight is that zoro can project images with his spirit,his spirit is now more powerfull
zoro doesn't need an upgrade or a magic sword or anything,his power comes from his training and his will
zoro is always training and now he reached a level where his spirit can project things like shank's spirit (though his is far more powerfull since it can make all the non monster people near by faint)
-
i am too bored to explain again what is written in a scanlated page from zoro vs kaku in the first page of this thread
zoro does not grow 3 heads and six arms
he does not attack with 9 swords but with 3,the others are projections from his spirit so it is difficult to dodge
like the puma,the lion, and the gorilla moves asura represents a creature
zoro doesn't have attacks more than 1 with the same name
he doesn't have for example lion's song and lion's ass
it is ittouryuu (style) iai (animal) shishi sonson (attack) and kyuttoryuu (style) asura (creature) ichibugin (attack)
also kaku did not use tekkai in the asura move,he did his spinning rankyoku move and the second he finished it zoro broke it or turned it inti mist and attacked him
as far as i believe zoro hasn't mastered the breath of all things fully and he stated it in alabasta after the fights when he was training in the palace
I'll just say I never assumed any of those things.
also sanji's upgrade wasn't diable jamble (if you mean diable jump) but the devil leg thing and zoro's wasn't asura but his spirit power up
Diable Jump or Diable Jambe was the flame leg thing. Asura is what he named his "spirit power up." "Demon Ki: 9 Swords Style - Asura"
-
I'll just say I never assumed any of those things.
Diable Jump or Diable Jambe was the flame leg thing. Asura is what he named his "spirit power up." "Demon Ki: 9 Swords Style - Asura"
you assumed asura cut through tekkai and you also assumed asura is a power up,didn't you?
otherwise i can't understand what you meant and why you quoted
i explained why i thought it is an attack
-
Zoro has been showing his ki in many ways like when he did that bendy thing with his swords. Kaku commenting on his demon like aura or something like that so asura is just a progression of of his ki.
Soon we will probably see another progression of his ki so its not just a stand alone technique
-
you assumed asura cut through tekkai and you also assumed asura is a power up,didn't you?
I never said Asura cut through Tekkai, but it's clear it can. I pointed out how the weaker Amadedachi, going by Jabura's reaction, could probably break through his strongest Tekkai. There's also the fact that a weaker Rankyaku than even his first Amadedachi parried the Shishi Sonson while the Asura turned it into mist (of course you could say the direction of the attack had to do with it.) Meaning it likely can, though I never said it did.
I also "assumed" it's a power up, and I explained my reasoning why it's likely one, much more so than it being an attack.
About his attacks being animals, he has attacks not named after animals, yet they're still attacks. His Gorilla was used to increase his strength, and afterwards he used "Twin Gorilla Slash", he could probably do other attacks with that form. Just like Luffy can do more than Gigant Pistol with Gear 3. Asura it seems to me, would be the same, but his increased ki probably increases every attribute or skill, or something along those lines. Just because he named a particular state doesn't mean it's an attack. He can likely do different techniques while in that state. Not just running through a person.
-
i think in the future he will project other images while he does different techniques (that don't nescecerily change his body,like a dragon or a phoenix or him on fire or things like that),time will tell :happy:
but in my point of view it is clearly a technique,he might do other attacks while in asura that will be different techniques with the same spirit projection in the future but they will again only be different techniques with the same spirit projection
asura isn't a power up but a projection and i am 99% sure that the next time he uses asura,it will be with ichibugin again
if you can tell that somehow zoro was upgraded (that i don't believe it) then the upgrade is the demon kii and not asura
-
One thing to take note of is he did "Demon Ki: 9 Swords Style - Asura" to initiate his illusion, and before he did Ichibigun he said "Asura - Ichibigun" just as he says "Itto-Ryuu Ia - Shishi Sonson" or "Nittoryuu - Rashoumon" etc… So I think it's clear enough that it's along the same lines. etc... And I pointed out how every crew member had an upgrade, and not just a new technique.
Well I suppose it's best to just wait until more of it is revealed. But I still think it's best to compare Gears to Asura (or even Gorilla).
