@brennen.exe:
Ussop is a sniper. I assume you understand what that means. What constitutes as a fair fight between a close range fighter and a sniper exactly?? Isn't it obvious who already has the advantage by default? The fact that Ussop has another area of fighting ability on top of this should put him above Chopper.
Mid range where Ussop has the options to either attack Chopper before he gets too close or do something to put further distance between the two. Ussop vs. Perona and Luffy were fair from a distance stand-point. Same can be said when he fought Arlong's man.
There is no flaw in stating what they are. You missed my point; their position on the ship is where their ultimate resolve lies. A Brave Warrior of the Sea who is a Sniper, suggests a warrior with power. A Doctor….? He can defend himself all he wants, but lets face it he relies on the crew a lot ~~ or at least right now he does. Sanji wants to be feared by the Marines as 'Black Leg Sanji', and wants to find All Blue ~~ something 'Red Leg Zeff' couldn't due to lack of resolve and strength, so he also needs to have a strong power. I wasn't using it as a strength meter, but rather a ranking point for their current and future standing.
I didn't miss the point its just I don't see how that relates to how well they'd fare against eachother in a fight. Not giving Chopper a lot of credit he started fighting on his own and making sure he wasn't reliant on the crew in Skypiea. Ussop didn't truly start trying to build confidence and his skill till Water 7. You're looking at things from plot-goggles saying that Ussop wins simply because his drive will push him further which isn't fair at all.
Is it? I don't see how it is. Again, did I miss a foot race? Can we some how now gauge the speed in which one can move and run from a Manga by simply looking? I understand the CP9 had ratings and such, but Franky and Brooke had the same reactions to the Ryuuma at full strength, so why even bring that into this? All we saw from Ryuuma vs. Brooke was that Brooke wasn't strong enough. Ryuuma had his shadow and skill, as well as his own bodies strength and speed. We saw no indication as far as I can tell that Ryuuma was faster than Brooke, only stronger. Franky being stronger than Brooke has never been an argument, but there isn't enough evidence to say Brooke cannot be faster.
I honestly don't see how its not apparent who is faster. One moves instantanously and can dodge gunfire. The other has never demonstrated Super-human ability besides jumping really high and one technique. Simply having Soru&Geppou should prove he's faster than Brooke unless you're saying Brooke's speed&agility are comparable to Gepou&soru? Something only the monster Trio can keep up with and Franky can handle for the most part.
Umm Brooke admitted he could barely keep up with Ryuma's swordmanship, I believe several times. This is before he went full strength against Zoro, which likely had Ryuuma going even faster since Zoro has the ability to keep up with the likes of Kaku.
Let me rephrase it; when Franky was introduced all the way to the point of Enies Lobby, did we ever see "speed" as one of his strong points? Did the CP9 not completely capture him? Twice? All I can say is that when he went up against Fukurou, speed was an issue when he used soru, but fortunately for Franky he (Fukurou) was an idiot. No indication whatsoever that Franky is particularly fast, but since his introduction Brooke has been known for his agility and light body. Ugh…I feel like this is going nowhere. PS - Chapter 404 is freakin hilarious!
When did I ever say Franky was fast…......?
Franky taking on Furkuou showed he has the reflexes and aim to defend against, go on the offensive, and capture a speedy opponent despite his big bulk. My argument is that since Furkurou is clearly superior to Brooke in speed&agility, Franky would have no trouble overcoming Brooke's only real advantages over him.
What? What? and What? She was using her Devil Fruit when Nami walked in, she was clothed during her fight with Nami, and "Bubblebath for gods sake" is her Devil Fruit Power for Pete's sake. She did use soru and she did shigan Nami. Trickery? Deception? It is tactic, and using her head. Are you part of the crowd that believes Ussop didn't really defeat Chuu because he used alcohol and a flame to light him on fire? Then hammer him when he was down? A win is a win, circumstance or no. Lucky breaks? Would you not consider Chopper lucky that he locked Kumadori inside a fridge long enough to get a break?
The fact that she didn't simply kick Nami's head off as soon as she walked into the room means she wasn't going all out.
Could have sworn she put clothes on later.
So you're telling me she needs a bath to produce bubbles? Thought she could do it without and they even talked about how she could only use her power from her limbs not submerged in water? I thought this occured though I wouldn't be surprised if I'm mistaken. Still the first point stands. Not going at Nami like she did Sanji means she wasn't going all out.
Again wouldn't be surprised if I missed this but I'll ask, was she going for the fatal blow or just torturing Nami or did she miss her intended area?
No because in that case the Fishman was trying his best to kill Ussop. No matter what you say Kalifa was not going 100% against Nami and those Marines were acting more like fodder from power rangers standing around waiting to get attacked in contrast to the marines going against ussop, franky, and zoro with all their might or the recent marines vs. the SN.
Not at all because that really wasn't critical to Chopper winning. Hell the real fight didn't start till after that.
lol, yes he does at times. That is what One Piece is. Oda is a great writer, and to say that he can take a character and give them a crazy situation to get out of ~~ and make it believable is a testament to that skill, not a knock on it. I am not saying he can just make any stupid lineup work, I am saying he can make it believable for us the readers. IE: Next chapter Franky pisses off Brooke and Brooke owns Franky using speed and skill ~~ you believe it because the way Oda wrote it and showed Brooke's advantages over Franky. Or vice-versa. I say, why go to the effort to prove something you cannot prove. They are in the same range, just leave it at that.
I agree Oda does a great job at making believable scenarios. However based on everything so far Franky getting owned by Brooke's Skill&speed ain't happening based on Fukurou&Luffy. Again are you forgetting Franky can go againt base Luffy? He's not drastically weaker than the Monster Trio.
They're not in the same range. Brooke hasn't shown too many super-human feats and is much closer in strength to the bottom SH, while Franky has gone up agains and even overwhelmed superhumans.
So, basically, you think Oda cannot successfully write a situation where Nami could have used her Mirages and Mist etc. to confuse Kumadori into an advantage for her where she Thunderbolts him to death? You do not think he could do it and make it believable? Seems to me if he did you would be arguing right now that Nami could have never defeated Kalifa.
Wasn't my original argument that Nami's battles in Enies Lobby were the rare situations of plotkai in OP? Why wouldn't I have the same reaction to that scenario as well? Basically if a CP9 members can be taken down by some lightning bolts it makes them all look bad. Eneru's bolts can't kill Robin and other non-superhumans but that staff downs somebody only 10 douriki weaker than Blueno who took massive amounts of damage from Luffy. Lots of inconsistencies would happen if Oda took this route which is probably why he didn't decided to have Nami win this way?
Not to mention he'd need to give her even more leeway to win this way. Kinda moved away from my original point. No leeway was really given for chopper's win. He took everything threw at him, nami couldn't have done the same. Thus he's stronger simply because he can have survive in more situations without it looking like a stretch.
I never claimed you did? All I said was that it is easy and fair enough to separate into tiers because there are gaps in power. It seems to be widely accepted that the tiers are like this
Um this all got started because I thought it ludicrous to put Chopper at the bottom of a ratings list. The idea that you can't rate them came later, sadly after you didn't really give any real reasons to show why he was at the bottom or to counter my points why he shouldn't be. Understand if you've changed your mind just reminding you what we were originally talking about since its easy to forget in such long debates.