I don't know if this is better than filler or not, but at least it will help to fill the time until we have something else to release. At least we finally got it out, although unfortunately the encoding will probably be in January or later, after we catch up with the episodes. Anyway, get the script from the usual place at www.vegapunk.com and enjoy (or at least try to).
Movie 8 script released
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I was beginning to think Funimation might've sent you guys a C&D considering their official DVD release is coming in Feburary (in fact I think I'll just wait for that now, what's a few more weeks)
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Will Vegapunk's be in 1080p? Cause there's some screenshots i want from that movie.
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Will Vegapunk's be in 1080p? Cause there's some screenshots i want from that movie.
Toei hasn't released a HD-version of the movie, so, no. It's just standard definition.
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great I deleted movie 8 off my HD a long time ago…
oh well I'll just wait for Funi's -
You've been doing an excellent job with this series' fansub, and we've all been enjoying your translations.
But… honestly, I dont think you should release a hardsub of this. Especially if it's gonna be so close to the actual release date of the DVD.
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There's a lot of people who wait for our hardsubbed version, because of our fansub typesetting and translation style, so we can't just tell them "a company is releasing a dvd, go buy it".
Also, with all the work already involved in the movie, translation, timing, editing, it's only natural that we finish the job.
On a personal note (meaning it's my opinion, not my team), I think it's not very nice after all that's been done to say "a dvd is coming out, we don't need you anymore". It's like telling the team that handles the early episodes "dvds are coming out now, you can stop". Fansubing work is indenpendant from whatever companies do, and I think it shouldn't be discarded so quickly.
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I understand.
But say if you waited a couple weeks after the DVD release? Let Funi get theirs out first. To them, it would just really look like a dick move to put out a free version of their first One Piece DVD effort right before (or shortly after) it goes on sale.
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We will release our version when it's ready, because we want to, and because people are waiting for it.
We're not going to tell them "hey guys, a company will make less profit if we delay our encoding, so you'll wait", because that would be a dick move to the people waiting for it.
You're somehow assuming that fansubbers should step down so Funi can make it's profit. I can't agree with that, and I hope it's not the general trend at the moment.
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We're not going to tell them "hey guys, a company will make less profit if we delay our encoding, so you'll wait", because that would be a dick move to the people waiting for it.
It's not that simple. Many of us One Piece fans (I assumed fansubbers included) have been waiting a long time for legitimate releases. And now we finally have that chance, but you'd hinder them just as it all starts?
Believe me, no one would think you're a dick if you held off. And the ones who would aren't worth worrying over.
You're somehow assuming that fansubbers should step down so Funi can make it's profit. I can't agree with that, and I hope it's not the general trend at the moment
Nonononono, you misunderstand me. By all means, go on and sub the new episodes. Keep it up as long as you can. But putting yourself directly in their line of sight could very well get you a C&D.
The only trend I'm behind is the one where One Piece can finally be successful here in North America.
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So you want fansubbers to stop so the "legitimate release" could me more successful, in North America?
What about the early episodes? Funi is releasing some dvd's with the early episodes, and there is a team subbing them. Do they have to stop as well?
"And the ones who would aren't worth worrying over." what do you mean by that? Screw the people waiting for the VP encoding of movie 8?
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Personally I just think it is respectful if licensed material is stopped/taken down. Yes, that would mean movie 8 and eps 144-206 by whoever has done them. They don't have to, but if they don't and they get a C&D… I wouldn't really care and would say they deserved it.
Personal opinion on the matter.
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What the hell? They deserved it? How ungrateful can a human being be?
After you watched happily all those episodes, "you saying fansubbers can get sued they deserve it"? You should be banned for flame war starting, and just for being an ungrateful spoiled brat. -
I am grateful though, and I highly applaud releasing on something that can play on my PS3. Just not with licensed things. Am I saying you have to stop completely? No. Movie 8 and 144-206 are licensed. They will be released to people who can buy those things. Their are fansubbers that respect a company when they license material. To me, that is what is respectful.
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I shouldn't have responded to your obvious flamebait to begin with, and back on topic, VP will proceed with the release of movie 8 encoded hardsubbed when it's ready, unless decided otherwise by VP.
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Go for it.
I wasn't flaming ya kid, I was just giving my views on subbers and licensed material. -
I think some of you are forgetting the most important thing.
Alot of fansub downloaders are internet pirates. They aren't going to buy the DVD anyway for one very important reason…it isn't free.
So thanks to the fansubbers for taking into account the feelings of those REAL pirates!
salute
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Also, a lot of OP fans don't live in North America or even in an English speaking country at all - many of them won't have access to the Funimation DVD in their countries and would have to order it online and potentially pay a lot for overseas shipping - and I have a feeling many of them are unwilling/unable to do that (including some that would have bought the DVD from a store), especially considering the movie isn't exactly top quality.
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Darthender is the correct one. lol. But man, maybe i'll buy the funimation one if it comes out on blu-ray or something.
ALSO! more on topic then the previous bit, is it possible to use this script and the RAW? and just watch it subbed? I'm pretty sure VLC lets you add in subtitle files, can i do that with this?
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ALSO! more on topic then the previous bit, is it possible to use this script and the RAW? and just watch it subbed? I'm pretty sure VLC lets you add in subtitle files, can i do that with this?
You can. That's pretty much the point of releasing script-files, giving people who are impatient or just don't give a damn about fancy special-effects a faster option to watch the episode subbed.
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ah. How?
16subtextst -
There's a guide in the FAQ section of www.vegapunk.com which explains everything you need.
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ah. How?
16subtextstYou said you were using VLC. In that case, put the subs script in the same directory as the video file and rename it so that both files have the same name except for the extension (for example movie8.avi and movie8.ass). Then load the video in VLC, and the subs should load automatically.
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Also, a lot of OP fans don't live in North America or even in an English speaking country at all - many of them won't have access to the Funimation DVD in their countries and would have to order it online and potentially pay a lot for overseas shipping - and I have a feeling many of them are unwilling/unable to do that (including some that would have bought the DVD from a store), especially considering the movie isn't exactly top quality.
Yeah which is why I think it's great people like ChibiGoku takes the time to get fast TV Encodes of the dub epsiodes for those outside the US (or those who just don't have cable). A lot of people are missing out.
Sorry, I didn't mean for my comment to be construed as "Meh, don't need you anymore". I personally prefer your guys' Hardsubs from an aesthetic viewpoint. And just like I wait for that in your episode releases, I prefer to wait for the Funi DVD release.
Since I haven't actually sat down and watched the whole thing, and the new dub will be adding a "fresh" experience to it that watching it in Japanese lacks, I want to have the best "first impression" viewing possible. That's all.
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Yea, this weekend was my first time seeing it. Watching the dub before the original was weird, but it made me feel like "Hey, the voices really work well. This is kinda neat." Cause I didn't know what was supposed to be said, how it should have sounded, etc.
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thanks guys :D pretty neat stuff, though im sad the subs dont show up very well on VLC. Oh well though. fun none the less.
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I didn't read all the discussion, but I do need to say something about this….
I'm from Brazil, and I can't stand to watch the brazilian subbed One Piece, some fansubbers translate from the english, meaning we lose some of the meaning...
We don't have these One Piece products in here, since we are still stuck with the 4kids version...
Hope whoever thinks u shouln't sub the movie, think again for the sake of those like me...Thanks again Vegapunk....
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thanks guys :D pretty neat stuff, though im sad the subs dont show up very well on VLC. Oh well though. fun none the less.
In VLC you can change the font, the font size, and the font color. Go to Settings -> Preferences and then click the + next to Subtitless/OSD to open the sub-menu and go to Text renderer. This will allow you to modify the font settings for the subs. I haven't actually tried it with the movie but you might be able to make the font easier to read that way.
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On a personal note (meaning it's my opinion, not my team), I think it's not very nice after all that's been done to say "a dvd is coming out, we don't need you anymore". It's like telling the team that handles the early episodes "dvds are coming out now, you can stop". Fansubing work is indenpendant from whatever companies do, and I think it shouldn't be discarded so quickly.
Amen. I agree with you 100%
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I shouldn't have responded to your obvious flamebait to begin with, and back on topic, VP will proceed with the release of movie 8 encoded hardsubbed when it's ready, unless decided otherwise by VP.
Since when is stating that if you knowingly and willingly break copyright laws you deserve to face consequences being ungrateful? This is more of a grateful post then "ZOMG KONTINEW YOURZ SUBZ CUZ I WANT SEE THEM! SHIT COPYRIGHT LAWZ!!!" because that way people care about their own needs but don´t bother to consider in what dangers VP would put themselves if they released licenced stuff.
My opinion is the same as EGX´s, I am grateful for VP´s releases and I hope that they continue doing their stuff. BUT I won´t support VP breaking copyright laws. Keep with the stuff that´s unlicensed and everything is fine. Everybody is responsible for his own actions. So if you knowingly and willingly break a law then it most definitely would deserve to face the consequences for it. Being grateful/ungrateful has nothing to do with it. We´re not living in La-La-Land.
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Willingly downloading anime from teams that you KNOW are breaking copyright laws, and then saying "you get what you deserve" is not only ungrateful, it is also hypocritical, in my opinion.
That is unless you never watched licensed fansubbed anime in your life, which I highly doubt.
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you know I never download a hard sub of vega punk… not ever. I only used the soft subs =P
Soft subs FTW, that way you can keep the raw. You can also use the soft subs on the actual DVD which makes it... less illegal ^_^anyway I don't have a problem with fansubs doing what they're doing... but if they do get shut down... it's just part of life. I wont cry about it or hold it against anyone.
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Since when is stating that if you knowingly and willingly break copyright laws you deserve to face consequences being ungrateful? This is more of a grateful post then "ZOMG KONTINEW YOURZ SUBZ CUZ I WANT SEE THEM! SHIT COPYRIGHT LAWZ!!!" because that way people care about their own needs but don´t bother to consider in what dangers VP would put themselves if they released licenced stuff.
My opinion is the same as EGX´s, I am grateful for VP´s releases and I hope that they continue doing their stuff. BUT I won´t support VP breaking copyright laws. Keep with the stuff that´s unlicensed and everything is fine. Everybody is responsible for his own actions. So if you knowingly and willingly break a law then it most definitely would deserve to face the consequences for it. Being grateful/ungrateful has nothing to do with it. We´re not living in La-La-Land.
Whose copyright laws are you referring to? I'm not an expert in Japanese copyright law, but are you absolutely certain that it gives permission to mass-distribute subbed or even raw anime, especially when ripped from official DVDs. With something like fansubbing, I don't see how you can support the copyright laws of one country but not those of another. If movie 8 wasn't licensed by Funimation, would you still be okay watching the Vegapunk version, which uses a copy of the Japanese DVD release downloaded from Japanese p2p? Or would you even ask where the raw came from? I'm not saying I don't see where you're coming from, but I just want to make sure you are considering Japanese law (as well as the fact that a high percentage of VP viewers do not reside in North America and don't have the same kind of access to Funimation materials that you may enjoy).
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Willingly downloading anime from teams that you KNOW are breaking copyright laws, and then saying "you get what you deserve" is not only ungrateful, it is also hypocritical, in my opinion.
That´s true indeed. But unless I didn´t read it wrong there was no mention of the downloading part. I got it as if just the fansubbing itself (meaning the groups work) is concerned. So yeah, if it´s like that then there´s nothing hypocritical in it. If yes, then you´re right.
Whose copyright laws are you referring to? I'm not an expert in Japanese copyright law, but are you absolutely certain that it gives permission to mass-distribute subbed or even raw anime, especially when ripped from official DVDs. With something like fansubbing, I don't see how you can support the copyright laws of one country but not those of another. If movie 8 wasn't licensed by Funimation, would you still be okay watching the Vegapunk version, which uses a copy of the Japanese DVD release downloaded from Japanese p2p? Or would you even ask where the raw came from? I'm not saying I don't see where you're coming from, but I just want to make sure you are considering Japanese law (as well as the fact that a high percentage of VP viewers do not reside in North America and don't have the same kind of access to Funimation materials that you may enjoy).
I´m not an expert at this myself but the way I understood (I can only vaguely remember the explenations so excuse me if I got it wrong) there´s a difference in these things. If you sub stuff in english that is not licensed in an english speaking country then you´re not interfering with the market there. You might use japanese raws for that, but you´re not really interfering with the japanese market either because the people who watch the episodes as they were produced originally don´t require english subs and even are bothered to have text on the screen they don´t understand.
However if stuff is licensed in english and is supposed to be released and you offer your own version of the same stuff freely then you definitely are interefering with the market. Do you really think the fansubbing comminity is that much igcognito that companies can´t track down what´s happening here? If no company moved against it it´s because people are bending the law but not breaking it. That´s how I got it. And that´s why Vegapunk in it´s own interest shouldn´t work on licensed stuff. I´d hate to see you guys go for making such a move, but if you knew the consequences beforehand I most definitely wouldn´t say that you didn´t deserve it.
So yes, doing a favor to us fans is pretty cool and nice. But sometimes you gotta be a bit egoisic and ask yourself if that´s worth gambling with your future that way. Because if they get you, you´ll get no support from those guys you wanted to do favors to. You´ll get some "thank you Vegapunk" notes and stuff like that but nobody would take a stand for you. So yeah, as hard as it sounds, if you consider all stuff and still chose to break laws you pretty much deserve the consequences if they get you. It´s the path you chose so you can´t complain.
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The problem is the amount of content they put into each DVD and the price they charge for it. I used to buy anime DVDs but as a full time student, getting these funds is absurd. I realize though that the high prices reflect the small market they hold.
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That´s true indeed. But unless I didn´t read it wrong there was no mention of the downloading part. I got it as if just the fansubbing itself (meaning the groups work) is concerned. So yeah, if it´s like that then there´s nothing hypocritical in it. If yes, then you´re right.
I´m not an expert at this myself but the way I understood (I can only vaguely remember the explenations so excuse me if I got it wrong) there´s a difference in these things. If you sub stuff in english that is not licensed in an english speaking country then you´re not interfering with the market there. You might use japanese raws for that, but you´re not really interfering with the japanese market either because the people who watch the episodes as they were produced originally don´t require english subs and even are bothered to have text on the screen they don´t understand.
However if stuff is licensed in english and is supposed to be released and you offer your own version of the same stuff freely then you definitely are interefering with the market. Do you really think the fansubbing comminity is that much igcognito that companies can´t track down what´s happening here? If no company moved against it it´s because people are bending the law but not breaking it. That´s how I got it. And that´s why Vegapunk in it´s own interest shouldn´t work on licensed stuff. I´d hate to see you guys go for making such a move, but if you knew the consequences beforehand I most definitely wouldn´t say that you didn´t deserve it.
So yes, doing a favor to us fans is pretty cool and nice. But sometimes you gotta be a bit egoisic and ask yourself if that´s worth gambling with your future that way. Because if they get you, you´ll get no support from those guys you wanted to do favors to. You´ll get some "thank you Vegapunk" notes and stuff like that but nobody would take a stand for you. So yeah, as hard as it sounds, if you consider all stuff and still chose to break laws you pretty much deserve the consequences if they get you. It´s the path you chose so you can´t complain.
Considering how many people with Japanese IP addresses download the raws we release on bittorent (and even our subbed releases), you can't say for sure that we aren't affecting the Japanese market, athough the impact probably isn't as large. I read that the Japanese authorities had only gone after people who uploaded anime to p2p, they were considering going after downloaders as well, which indicates that Japanese copyright law frowns on fan-distributed anime, and I doubt they make a legal distinction between whether it is subbed or not. I also know quite a few Japanese people that like to watch stuff subbed or dubbed in English because they want to improve their English. So while your argument may hold some moral weight, I don't see how you can say we are illegally interfering with the North American market but not the Japanese market. Just because the Japanese are less likely to come after us doesn't make it more or less illegal - a law is a law.
Whatever moral arguments there are in favor of fansubbing, it is still in a gray area at best even in North America, and we are always in some danger of being shut down even if we didn't sub the movie (considering that at least one of our viewers has gotten a C&D from their ISP for downloading our releases). It's not like we're trying to get shut down, but, especially considering that we release raws as well as subbed encodings, I still fail to see a black and white distinction between honoring North American licensing and ignoring Japanese licensing, considering that our releases are just as accessible in Japan and anywhere else in the world as they are in North America (not to mention that most of our staff are in non-English European or Asian countries, and our server is hosted in a non-English European country).
Also, as far as C&D's are concerned, INP released the movie subbed months ago, and K-F continues to host every single episode that Funimation has licensed, and yet both are still in business, so I'm not convinced that the danger of us being shut down is as great as you think. I do want to say that I appreciate your concern and your insight, and it's given me a lot to think about, but at this point I am still not in favor of VP stopping production on the movie (although as behind as we are I wouldn't be terribly surprised if Funi releases their DVD before our subbed encoding is done).
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Sorry, but I couldn´t really bare reading that monster of yours.
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Sorry, but I couldn´t really bare reading that monster of yours.
Sorry about that. :P There was a mistake in the first couple of sentences where I edited something and accidentally deleted parts of 2 sentences in the process - I've fixed it now. Other than that, it's probably because I am writing at work while encoding and capturing video (I'm an encoder in RL as well), so I'm not 100% focused on sentence structure.
EDIT: I guess it's also the curse of having a master's degree in a liberal arts field - after all the books I read for my classes filled with long, rambling discourse that seem to be coherent only to the author (and in some cases maybe not even then), I fear I'm becoming the very thing I loathe. Or I can blame it on my age, since I will turn 30 in about 6 months… :P
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OK, so people here are complaining about pirating a show about pirates?
Besides, fan-subbing One Piece became illegal the day that 4kids got the license to begin with. The difference is that 4kids never proceeded. Whether Funimation will go after the fan subs is yet has yet to be known, but it's likely that they will, so it's a good time to backup all the quality subs.
I understand that the VP members are located outside of the U.S., so VP may not be shut down even with a C&D letter. Therefore, it is possible that Funimation will go after the leeches downloading the torrents located in the U.S. instead.
EGX: You really need to lay off of the moral crap. If you've been downloading One Piece since 4kids owned the license, you've already broken the law, so don't bother trying to tell others not to do the same just because you "think" you have some moral grounds to be holier than thou. You're already guilty legally.
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I never said I never did anything wrong smeg for brains. I was just saying that if they get a C&D, it was asked for. Do I really need to dumb things down that much?
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@EvilGamerX:
I never said I never did anything wrong smeg for brains. I was just saying that if they get a C&D, it was asked for. Do I really need to dumb things down that much?
Whether VP fansubs Movie 8 or not, they will most likely get the C&D letter anyways.
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Actually I would say Movie 8 would just help it because it IS licensed and IS coming out on DVD shortly.
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Anyhoo, instead, you could just say "Thanks Vegapunk, I hope to watch your HD encoded version of the movie" If you have anything to say besides that, You're just being stupid.
I'm afraid there isn't a HD version of the movie available. Vegapunk's encoded release will be taken from the Japanese DVD release, and as such will be at DVD resolution.
Anyway, not to be rude, I just want to say I somewhat agree with EvilGamerX and the others. By all means I think you should release your encoded version of movie 8, it's clear that you've put a lot of effort into it already, and it's also just what those who cannot get the Funi releases need. But I think you should be careful in not attracting Funi's attention.
With the group being so far ahead in terms of episodes, it means Funi will likely just turn a blind eye in their issuing of a C&D notice, but when you're releasing a movie that they're bringing out on domestic DVD in the next couple of months, it seems you're potentially putting yourselves in a great deal of risk.
Please don't take this as an insult. Everyone is extremely grateful for what Vegapunk do for One Piece, it's just it seems like this will be putting you in Funi's bad books, especially with their current stand against piracy and trend of handing out C&D letters.
Either way, I'll still be nabbing your movie to burn and then purchasing the Funi DVD release come February. So keep up the good work, and good luck with this release! Let's hope it works out for you.
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Wow, this debate even pulled Wickio out of the woodwork. ^^ Glad to see you are still around, and thanks for the insight.
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Thanks for your advice Wickio, as for the matter, we know that the release is maybe a risk, but we don't plan to cancel it for the reasons SakuraDestiny mentionned, and we hope to be around to provide episodes and movies. Come see us on irc sometimes :P
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Hmm… I follow a link from Vegapunk... I come over and find 2 things...
1. A bunch of Idiots criticizing something they know nothing about...
Basically my view is this .. unless your a fansubber ... you don't have any right to critique other fansubbers... So anything you have to say to a fansubber doing a anime you like (like Vegapunk) is thank you sir ... may I have another. ;Dand the 2. ... Fansubbing gods of OP past.. . Wicko ... :D amazing
Anyway ... I don't understand what all the hassle is about ... I watch tons of fansubs... I also wind up buying a ton of the anime that I watch on fansub because I want to own the high quality and legitimate versions of the anime I loved when I watched it fansubbed. :D
The only reason that companies Like Toei and such should want fansubbers to stop is if they want thier products to have a next to impossible time gaining acceptance into foriegn markets.
I can't speak for everyone ... but if I had to pay to watch OP .... before I knew how great it was ... It probably wouldn't have been a anime I would've taken the chance on with my hard earned pocket monies. :PEither way ... Thanks for all the hard work. I hope you guy's keep it up...
And side note.. .LOL Gen-san is Gen-san ... no matter what forum he's on... XD
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I must admit, I like Funimation. I've met their people at various conventions on more than one occasion. They're worried about One Piece. They know how incredibly popular it is in Japan and see great potential for cash flow. They really want this to be their new DBZ. However, they also have the experience of other crazy-popular Japanese shows like Conan and ShinChan… which more or less bombed when presented to American audiences. They want to redeem One Piece from its tarnished 4kids name and make as much money as they can in the process.
And... it's not cheap for them, since One Piece is so high-profile. If they fail to bring it to a wider American audience, they will probably need to drop the show. And, since they do see such potential for the show, I'm sure they will be trying very hard to make sure it succeeds.
I've been hoping that Funimation considers Vegapunk and other fansubbers as a boost to the potential for One Piece popularity to grow. They have responded positively to fans who have only watched fansubs, listening to requests like "let Sanji smoke," "keep Zoro's name," etc. Granted, they will only be able to do such things on the DVD releases, but we still have current fans like us to thank for that. Anyhow, when you think about it... do you think Funimation is really marketing their DVD's to the jobless kids who watch the show on Toonami? Or perhaps, are they marketing those DVD's towards us, the loyal fans who just so happen to enjoy the show mostly through fansub? If Funimation wants me to buy a DVD, then they're going to need to show me they won't be douchey by shutting down Vegapunk.
And I'm really hoping for the best, since I don't think Funimation will ever be able to catch up to current One Piece episodes.
By the way, the people who produce the show at Funimation don't seem to be fluent in Japanese, and yet they seem to be big fans of the show... I wonder how they watched it?
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Considering how many people with Japanese IP addresses download the raws we release on bittorent (and even our subbed releases), you can't say for sure that we aren't affecting the Japanese market, athough the impact probably isn't as large. I read that the Japanese authorities had only gone after people who uploaded anime to p2p, they were considering going after downloaders as well, which indicates that Japanese copyright law frowns on fan-distributed anime, and I doubt they make a legal distinction between whether it is subbed or not. I also know quite a few Japanese people that like to watch stuff subbed or dubbed in English because they want to improve their English. So while your argument may hold some moral weight, I don't see how you can say we are illegally interfering with the North American market but not the Japanese market. Just because the Japanese are less likely to come after us doesn't make it more or less illegal - a law is a law.
I can because I was talking about the subs, not about the raws. You´re right that with raws you´re putting yourselves in a position where you´re interfering with the japanese market. When I was speaking about difference between Japan and the States I was just refering to the subs themselves. So yeah, if you someone would move against for you for that you couldn´t complain either.
Whatever moral arguments there are in favor of fansubbing, it is still in a gray area at best even in North America, and we are always in some danger of being shut down even if we didn't sub the movie (considering that at least one of our viewers has gotten a C&D from their ISP for downloading our releases). It's not like we're trying to get shut down, but, especially considering that we release raws as well as subbed encodings, I still fail to see a black and white distinction between honoring North American licensing and ignoring Japanese licensing, considering that our releases are just as accessible in Japan and anywhere else in the world as they are in North America (not to mention that most of our staff are in non-English European or Asian countries, and our server is hosted in a non-English European country).
Again, I was talking about fansubs and I think that my post quite well explained where I see the differences.
Also, as far as C&D's are concerned, INP released the movie subbed months ago, and K-F continues to host every single episode that Funimation has licensed, and yet both are still in business, so I'm not convinced that the danger of us being shut down is as great as you think. I do want to say that I appreciate your concern and your insight, and it's given me a lot to think about, but at this point I am still not in favor of VP stopping production on the movie (although as behind as we are I wouldn't be terribly surprised if Funi releases their DVD before our subbed encoding is done).
I´m not talking about whether or not the dangers are that great or not. I was simply commenting on the responses to EGX. His point could be summarized as "whenever you gamble eventually you lose" but instead of getting that people are (borderline) flaming just because he dared to make a valid point.
I mean just read through the posts. Except for you SakuraDestiny the rest that shares your opinion isn´t that considerate with choice of words. That´s actually what got me into that discussion because it´s a bit disturbing to read the feedback EGX received when you consider what he said. I know he´s not the guy to be effected by all of that but still some things said here are totally unproper. Insults don´t help prove any point. That´s all that is to it.