But if you used "nakama" or "kawaii" or "baka" etc which for some reason are considered overused and associated with fantards and weeaboos, yet still as Japanese as many of the words that aren't, you'd be flamed.
AGH I DUNNO
just leave me alone
But if you used "nakama" or "kawaii" or "baka" etc which for some reason are considered overused and associated with fantards and weeaboos, yet still as Japanese as many of the words that aren't, you'd be flamed.
AGH I DUNNO
just leave me alone
never you bastard
You bakas have ruined a great thread.
Ja na.
how dare i offer a contrary opinion to a group of people calling another group cancerous retards because they chose to leave a word untranslated
i should be ashamed of myself
…...I was kidding.
I thought that was painfully obvious, but you know.
@MTerek, it's cool.
http://i7.tinypic.com/4q6eusx.jpg
ODA randomly uses English/etc words for effect among a sea of Japanese because where he stands it's considered cool, the exact reverse of what scanlation/subbing groups do.
It's been repeated in this thread by others so many times but I'll say it again: in Japan (no, not just Oda!) seeing random english words is common in popular culture, advertisements, blahblah society, while here random japanese is pretty much reserved to anime nerds and Gwen Stefani.
But that doesn't change the fact that both parties do it!
The contexts are completely different. And by this I don't mean 'while one is considered cool for doing it, the other is not!' You can not compare the impact of the english language there, or indeed in most of the world, as you can japanese here (outside the god damn fringe otaku community if I really MUST clarify.) In sum: DO NOT USE THIS COMPARISON. STOP NOW.
While not to the same extent as 'nakama', 'seiyuu' is being used in conversations is also pretty gay. But at least it's there to make a distinction between JAPANESE and ENGLISH voice actors. Not because the word sounds COOL or conveys more POWER and EMOTION and OTHER BULLSHIT.
@Taz:
In sum: DO NOT USE THIS COMPARISON. STOP NOW.
This command shall go unheeded.
Tis the way of the e-fight.
It's weird about the "line being drawn," because I've been playing Persona 3 a lot over the past week, and it still uses Japanese honorifics and and phrases in the US localization… and it didn't really bother me as much as made me wonder about the people not as familiar with the "fandom" or Japanese culture who'd be trying to play this.
Then again, pretty sure Atlus knew who'd be playing this game
@Cap'n:
It's weird about the "line being drawn," because I've been playing Persona 3 a lot over the past week, and it still uses Japanese honorifics and and phrases in the US localization… and it didn't really bother me as much as made me wonder about the people not as familiar with the "fandom" or Japanese culture who'd be trying to play this.
More towards the meduim of anime, but I've often thought about this as well.
Though I wouldn't envision too many problems for shows that have a somewhat of a historical setting in fuedal Japan. Take the Basilisk dub for example.
I really don't have a problem with foreign words being thrown around here and there, but when it comes out like this…
''I just love the part were Nel just swallowed up Noitora's cero. Tis was so Kawwaaaaaaiiiiiiix33333!!!Nel pawns!!!!!>=3''
then I draw the line. (Real post, by the way.)
I guess you could compare using the word "seiyuu" instead of "Japanese voice actor" to using the word "anime" instead of "Japanese cartoon". It's just quicker and easier.
Since we're using PBF's weeaboo comic anyway…
http://pbfcomics.com/?cid=0PBF10060BC-Skub.jpg#11
That just about sums up all eight pages of this trainwreck, minus the occasional level-headed post here and there.
@_Meh_:
Since we're using PBF's weeaboo comic anyway…
http://pbfcomics.com/?cid=0PBF10060BC-Skub.jpg#11
That just about sums up all eight pages of this trainwreck, minus the occasional level-headed post here and there.
You win the thread.
@Mog:
are you suggesting there's something wrong with communism
Well, for one thing, it's got nothing to do with One Piece. o_o
I dunno…luffy wears a red vest......
HE MUST BE A COMMIE
OH NOES!?!?!?!
You know…in some ways....this thread brings a tear to my eye.
It was just a few years ago when I was the only one championing the 'Let's just translate shit' cause and now it seems that the intelligent Japanese animation fan community has emerged. Happy days.
Also...not a close relation to the thread but since weeaboo came up. I found a funny definition of the term on Urban Dictionary. I like how the definition starts 'normal' then goes from 0 to 60 Full Flame in .04 seconds.
Someone who is obsessed with Japan/Japanese Culture/Anime, etc. and attempts to act as if they were Japanese, even though they're far from it. They use Japanese words but usually end up pronouncing them wrong and sounding like total assholes. You can find alot of these faggots clogging up the forums of Gaia Online, hanging out in the international aisle of the supermarket, or crowding the manga section of your local bookstore.
I guess you could compare using the word "seiyuu" instead of "Japanese voice actor" to using the word "anime" instead of "Japanese cartoon". It's just quicker and easier.
JP VA is even faster! I just use EN VA and JP VA myself…
I do that too (VA, or jpVA).
It was just a few years ago when I was the only one championing the 'Let's just translate shit' cause and now it seems that the intelligent Japanese animation fan community has emerged. Happy days.
Shortly after I joined AP, I did bring it up, but it was like trying to yell over an airplane engine. http://apforums.net/showthread.php?p=324830 I think there were a few others, too but were ignored.
The silent minority just couldn't take the stupidity anymore.
I remember there was another one regarding the use of frequent loanwords that dythm locked for daring to question him. Way back when, on my old account with this same name.
Posting Drunkenly Now.
No offense intended, but if I really have won this thread, do I get the right to lock it? A simple "da" or "niet" will suffice.
Burn the infidels!
No offense intended, but that webcomic wasn't funny. CosmicDebris just likes it because she hates any kind of negativity. :B
If PBF is not funny then nothing in this world is.
@Taz:
No offense intended, but that webcomic wasn't funny. CosmicDebris just likes it because she hates any kind of negativity. :B
It's humorous but it was an incredibly generic reply.
and generic praises like "you won da thread!!" didn't help.
Precisely. I've seen that kind of joke get thrown out so many times in argument-based threads that in terms of wit it's pretty much one step above posting a pic of that special olympics retard.
@Taz:
No offense intended, but that webcomic wasn't funny. CosmicDebris just likes it because she hates any kind of negativity. :B
Nope, that's not it. It's not that it was really funny, just that it was exactly true.
I mean, if there really WAS something that anyone could add to this thread, maybe it would be less appropriate.
And now you guys are just commenting on on other comments that don't add anything to the discussion either. :P And neither am I.
Nope, that's not it. It's not that it was really funny, just that it was exactly true.
Except the whole, you know, forgetting completely about the original topic of nakama vs [appropriate translation] in favour of hurling personal insults at one another.
(Okay now we've veered off topic, but u starteddit.)
@Taz:
Except the whole, you know, forgetting completely about the original topic of nakama vs [appropriate translation] in favour of hurling personal insults at one another.
(Okay now we've veered off topic, but u starteddit.)
Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a winner!:wassat:
Meh - "TRUE criminal mastermind!"
I don't really see a problem because this could just be part of globalization.
I'm Latino, and I often mix up English and Spanish words all the time(Spanglish?). There are also a lot of Spanish words in English that are kept untranslated and vise-versa. For example, Burrito literally means "Little Donkey" in English, but the word kept untranslated as Burrito. Logically, Anyone that is upset at the word nakama, should start calling burritos "little donkeys" if they want to remain consistent.
Moreover, I see a lot of English words used in the Japanese raws in almost any Anime to date. Why is it OK for the Japanese to have American culture engraved into them and not have a little bit of theirs engraved into ours?
i dunno…comrade sounds kind of cool but i could only imagine a full blooded RUssian saying that... COMrade
I don't really see a problem because this could just be part of globalization.
I'm Latino, and I often mix up English and Spanish words all the time(Spanglish?). There are also a lot of Spanish words in English that are kept untranslated and vise-versa. For example, Burrito literally means "Little Donkey" in English, but the word kept untranslated as Burrito. Logically, Anyone that is upset at the word nakama, should start calling burritos "little donkeys" if they want to remain consistent.
Moreover, I see a lot of English words used in the Japanese raws in almost any Anime to date. Why is it OK for the Japanese to have American culture engraved into them and not have a little bit of theirs engraved into ours?
''Nakama'' is really used only by a specific type of fan, without any clearly discernible reason.
Also, it's a children's comic from Japan.
Why are you comparing it to cultural engravings and burritos.
Personally, I don't care too much about what scanlators use, because I know what "Nakama" means. If they leave it that way, I'll understand and figure out the context myself. If not, I really hope they got the context right, because I would consider it pretty lazy to misinterpret the meaning in light of obvious emotion.
@Mog:
''Nakama'' is really used only by a specific type of fan, without any clearly discernible reason.
Also, it's a very popular children's comic from Japan.
Why are you comparing it to cultural engravings and burritos.
Does it matter if it's from a children's comic from Japan? You're watching this children comic, and I doubt that you are a child. Literature and Art is one of the many methods of how cultural engravings begin. Manga and Anime is a Japanese art form that is being exported globally. Even if the show is intended for children, it's positive for children to learn other cultures and languages.
Globalization can occur for many reasons, and it doesn't always have to make sense. (For example, I see Spanish speakers say Parquiar (pronounced parkiar which means to park) when estacionar is the real word to use.
Point being is that since we are watching a Japanese product, it doesn't hurt that some of their culture gets engraved into ours especially since I hear a good amount of English spoken by the Japanese voice actors (which means our culture is being engraved into theirs). Therefore, it would be logical for fansubs and profession companies to give us a little bit of Japanese as well.
Specifically, One Piece fansubbers believe that nakama is one of those words that can't truly be translated; thus they are enculterating this word to English speakers by leaving the word untranslated.
It's true that other Anime fansubs translates the word to family, friends, comrade, etc depending on the circumstances, but perhaps One Piece will be the pioneer and other Anime fansubs will eventually keep it as nakama as well.
I only know of one word that is anywhere near integrated into English. Sayonara, but we use tons of different languages for "good-bye", like adios. Oi also seems to be used a lot by fictional pirates in English.
Oi isn't just Japanese. I can excuse "Oi" because it isn't something obscure.
A1ucard, change that to ''very popular in Japan'' and your entire argument falls apart.
But that's basically how it is. One Piece is not creating any major cultural impact anywhere, at least not to any degree it matters.
And let's face it, we're just a bunch of nerds on the internet who like comics. This has nothing to do with ''culture''. It just seems to me like you're using that kind of fancy argumentation because you can't actually think of any sensible reason to leave the word untranslated.
@Mog:
A1ucard, change that to ''very popular in Japan'' and your entire argument falls apart.
But that's basically how it is. One Piece is not creating any major cultural impact anywhere, at least not to any degree it matters.
And let's face it, we're just a bunch of nerds on the internet who like comics. This has nothing to do with ''culture''. It just seems to me like you're using that kind of fancy argumentation because you can't actually think of any sensible reason to leave the word untranslated.
Just because it's only popular in Japan (atm) doesn't mean that One Piece won't effect other Animes that is popular outside of Japan. This is why my argument doesn't fall short
In my opinion, Japanese Anime, Manga, and Video Games are the mediums used for Japanese culture to be shared internationally. It only makes sense that their words will creep into our vocabulary just like ours have already creeped into theirs.
If you think that this argument is not sensible, there is nothing more to argue. Perhaps this argument makes more sense to someone that is bilingual than a person that speaks only one language(not saying this is the case with you).
In the end, the One Piece fansub community have already made up their mind and the word nakama and some other Japanese terms are being left untranslated. Whether this will carry one to other fansubs has yet to be seen.
Ally works as well as comrade. Not to mention it's one of those words that works better in english if you change it depending on the sentence dude. Unlike Burrito, Nakama has a valid and sensible sounding english counterpart! It has tons of them!
It's like saying YOSHA! and other common terms should be left in when ALRIGHT! Or YEAH! works just fine. Your argument makes no sense, because with a burrito, the meaning is confusing once translated while with something like nakama, the meaning becomes clear once you translate it. It's more confusing for it to be left in the original japanese. Not to mention OP isn't this distinctly Japanese series with cultural touches like riceballs and samurais and crap like that. Leaving Japanese in the dialogue just stands out as out of place, it doesn't add to the aesthetic of the series.
@Ao:
Ally works as well as comrade. Not to mention it's one of those words that works better in english if you change it depending on the sentence dude. Unlike Burrito, Nakama has a valid and sensible sounding english counterpart! It has tons of them!
Actually, Burrito litterally means Little Donkey. Nakama doesn't have a litteral translation and depending on the context, a different word is used. BTW "Valid and sensible sounding" is very subjective.
You're not understanding my point. Calling a food "little donkey" in english would be confusing. Using a foreign term like "nakama' would be equally confusing. Burrito should be untranslated BECAUSE it helps avoid confusion. Nakama SHOULD be translated for the same reason. Not to mention a term like "allies" or "fellows" is a perfectly valid translation of the word, it just doesn't sound coversational.
A1ucard: What I mean by ''sensible'' is an argument that actually gives a solid reason for leaving this particular word untranslated instead of stating that doing so may not be bad thing because culture imports stuff all the time.
Which is still a ridiculous allegory, if you ask me.
And the term "burrito" tends to be used in a context where keeping it untranslated makes perfect sense, and translating it would do nothing for either party
i.e. MEXICAN RESTAURANTS
@Ao:
You're not understanding my point. Calling a food "little donkey" in english would be confusing. Using a foreign term like "nakama' would be equally confusing. Burrito should be untranslated BECAUSE it helps avoid confusion. Nakama SHOULD be translated for the same reason. Not to mention a term like "allies" or "fellows" is a perfectly valid translation of the word, it just doesn't sound coversational.
To tell you the truth, what I'm not understanding is why do you think Americans are going to be confused over Japanese terms being used in Anime when the Japanese have no problems using any American terms.
I definately never get confused when an English word is used in Spanish and Vise-versa.
@Mog:
A1ucard: What I mean by ''sensible'' is an argument that actually gives a solid reason for leaving this particular word untranslated instead of stating that doing so may not be bad thing because culture imports stuff all the time.
Which is still a ridiculous allegory, if you ask me.
It's not ridiculous in my opinion, but if you must have another reason, I would say that the fact that the word doesn't have a literal translation and have to be substituted depending on the context is a good reason.
Looks like I have a tough crowd tonight.
edit: damn, sorry for the double post.
To tell you the truth, what I'm not understanding is why do you think Americans are going to be confused over Japanese terms being used in Anime when the Japanese have no problems using any American terms.
Japan is not America. That's why. Japan is a culture that constantly exports language carry overs from other cultures, especially english. Most Japanese people have atleast a very basic understanding of english and can recognize the alphabet. Hell, they air american music videos on mtv in Japan! When's the last time you saw a Japanese music video air IN FULL JAPANESE on american mtv?
It's a completely different culture where they don't mind the confusion created by foreign words being thrown into dialogue or for an aesthetic feel. In america, the same isn't true. The average america has no desire to be exposed to or learn foreign languages. "Put it all in english so I can understand it!" Is just fine with them. That we're getting anything left in a language besides english is great!
And the term "burrito" tends to be used in a context where keeping it untranslated makes perfect sense, and translating it would do nothing for either party
i.e. MEXICAN RESTAURANTS
Comeon now! You know very well "Little Donkey" sounds like a tasty treat!
@Ao:
Japan is not America. That's why. Japan is a culture that constantly exports language carry overs from other cultures, especially english. Most Japanese people have atleast a very basic understanding of english and can recognize the alphabet. Hell, they air american music videos on mtv in Japan! When's the last time you saw a Japanese music video air IN FULL JAPANESE on american mtv?
It's a completely different culture where they don't mind the confusion created by foreign words being thrown into dialogue or for an aesthetic feel. In america, the same isn't true. The average america has no desire to be exposed to or learn foreign languages. "Put it all in english so I can understand it!" Is just fine with them. That we're getting anything left in a language besides english is great!
You just gave a good reason why the French and Spanish attacks from Robin and Sanji should be translated to English instead of keeping them untranslated. Why did Funimation leave those words untranslated in the last episode if Americans are so ethnocentric?
I'm pretty sure Ojos Fluer could have been translated into Eye Creep.
I'd say discussing this further would be about as frivolous as requesting Dora the Explorer to be fully translated into English.
I'd say discussing this further would be about as frivolous as requesting Dora the Explorer to be fully translated into English.
But the horse is still whole. I must beat it just a few more times before I'm satisfied.
Actually, Dora the Totally Non-Hispanic Explorer would be fun to see.
"Muy bien! Great!"
becomes:
"Great! Great!"
Dora is now a double-talker!