Just read the translation (okay, a few hours ago,but I have other things to do) and I can tell you this-really WONDERFULL chapter,BUT….......its too short,its pace is so rapid that ya end on the last,thinking "Great,but......waiting a week for it?"-not thst it wouldnt be WORTH it,its just like if youd have to wait a month to see a new episode of a half-hour show.
Chapter 470 "Odz vs Strawhats" Discussion
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I think that Brooke will take out Oz by purifying him. Moria will be baffled and that's when Luffy will catch up with him and they'll fight.
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In what…...I mean........ah.........HOW precisely would Brook,ah,purify Oz,if he wasnt even able to deal with Ryuma,who was leagues weaker?
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The way i see it now[sorry if it have already ben said i just skipped to the last page] is that if Oz is to be purified the only way is drowning. If Luffy is to beat Oz he needs to use Gear 3rd to cause him damage, but using that form slows him down and as seen Oz is very agile and fast. About Nami and the remaining shadows. I think Oz will end up trampling Jigoro, Dogpen and Absalom. Could be so funny to see Absalom trampled flat[cartoon style].
I still hope for the monster Chopper VS Oz fight. -
@$abZ:
Or lazy.
Moria doesn't want to kill Luffy either, since he needs Luffy alive. Plus he can't be bothered to have to fight, which takes many times more effort than running. Why else do you think he's created such an empire, including a zombie that is most likely stronger than himself?
Damn right.
Moria wants Luffy to fight Ohz. It's quite clear why he's running: he has zombies that fight for himself. We know his motto so we know he prefers not to move a finger if he can. Now he has Ohz, and for sure he wanna see him in action.
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First great chapter since the segue after Water Seven.
And finally, FINALLY there is a point to the Ener story. I was bored out of my goddamned mind.
BTW: script is up, also last week's.
Thanks for the trans, as always stephen.
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Maybe Luffy won't even have to fight Moria. Luffy can beat Oz down, and then Moria will go, "Shit, they killed all my underlings. Here, have your shadows back."
But it would suck if Moria never got his face bashed in. Maybe Luffy could hold Doppelman hostage until Thriller Bark is about to leave the fog, and then extort Moria into returning all the shadows. -
I wonder why people still think that Luffy is going to take on Odz when the Brook vs. Ryuma situation showed it clearly that if both characters have the same spirit/soul then the body makes the difference in strenght. And I dare to say Odz´s body is far ahead of Luffy´s. Luffy is just as much a threat to Odz as the other Strawhats have been so far. Not all fights have to be one with fists.
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Ivotas: the difference is in the advantage of the Devil fruits. since the zombies dont gain the DF powers, a DF user has a bigger chance of defeating his zombie then a regular human. (or someone with a weak DF such as Brook)
it is possible (although unlikely) that Luffys DF negates any advantage Oz gets by his body.
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I wonder why people still think that Luffy is going to take on Odz when the Brook vs. Ryuma situation showed it clearly that if both characters have the same spirit/soul then the body makes the difference in strenght. And I dare to say Odz´s body is far ahead of Luffy´s. Luffy is just as much a threat to Odz as the other Strawhats have been so far. Not all fights have to be one with fists.
That's why I'm saying, maybe Luffy can hold Doppelman hostage. With the sunlight approaching, Moria would need his shadow back, and Luffy could force him to recall all the shadows.
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Moria still has his shadow, so the whole sunlight thing doesn't apply to him.
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@Kidany:
Moria still has his shadow, so the whole sunlight thing doesn't apply to him.
the doppelganger is morias shadow right? so if Luffy takes him and holds him hostage how Moria can have his shadow?
or what were you saying?
still if the sun rule aplies to him is uncertain imo since it is his DF power. Special rules might apply to him.
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I seriously don´t see Luffy´s DF being that much of an advantage here. He might take less damage then the others thanks to his rubber powers but on the other hand hurting Odz will probably do as much damage as Zoro´s and Sanji´s attacks.
Besides, this isn´t the first time that the Strawhats dealed with a "big" that is something different then one on one fights. The Buster Call was also something that came after everybody finished his fight. And they didn´t defeat the Buster Call, they just survived it. And Luffy didn´t make any difference.
Another example (though of a little different kind) is Norla. Neither Zoro nor Wiper could harm the snake. But in the end Luffy wasn´t the one who took it down. And he could only hurt it because he was inside the snake (which actually means the moron got eaten in the first place).Luffy already declared his opponent and this is Moria. And just like against Rucchi he won´t let go of that opponent until he crushes him, having faith in his crewmates to be able to survive the situation.
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I seriously don´t see Luffy´s DF being that much of an advantage here. He might take less damage then the others thanks to his rubber powers but on the other hand hurting Odz will probably do as much damage as Zoro´s and Sanji´s attacks.
Besides, this isn´t the first time that the Strawhats dealed with a "big" that is something different then one on one fights. The Buster Call was also something that came after everybody finished his fight. And they didn´t defeat the Buster Call, they just survived it. And Luffy didn´t make any difference.
Another example (though of a little different kind) is Norla. Neither Zoro nor Wiper could harm the snake. But in the end Luffy wasn´t the one who took it down. And he could only hurt it because he was inside the snake (which actually means the moron got eaten in the first place).Luffy already declared his opponent and this is Moria. And just like against Rucchi he won´t let go of that opponent until he crushes him, having faith in his crewmates to be able to survive the situation.
Wow, your soooooooo rite, I hope now people will understand that Luffy will only fight Moria!
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I seriously don´t see Luffy´s DF being that much of an advantage here. He might take less damage then the others thanks to his rubber powers but on the other hand hurting Odz will probably do as much damage as Zoro´s and Sanji´s attacks.
Besides, this isn´t the first time that the Strawhats dealed with a "big" that is something different then one on one fights. The Buster Call was also something that came after everybody finished his fight. And they didn´t defeat the Buster Call, they just survived it. And Luffy didn´t make any difference.
Another example (though of a little different kind) is Norla. Neither Zoro nor Wiper could harm the snake. But in the end Luffy wasn´t the one who took it down. And he could only hurt it because he was inside the snake (which actually means the moron got eaten in the first place).Luffy already declared his opponent and this is Moria. And just like against Rucchi he won´t let go of that opponent until he crushes him, having faith in his crewmates to be able to survive the situation.
the difference is that Oggy is something that must be defeated somehow. wether it is by haveing moria order him or purifying him with salt.
there is a chance the strawhats must somehow subdue Oggy for him to listen to Moria. (stupid thing would probably not listen to new orders if he is distracted by hunting the strawhat crew… and its hard to force Moria to say anything if Oggy is attacking Luffy, while Luffy is trying to force the order from Moria.)
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I am not totally sure that Luffy s DF wouldn't make a difference, just imagine a jet gatling against OhrZZ, I tend to think it would damage him somehow.
But for the rest I agree with Ivotas, I really don't think Luffy will fight someone other than Moria. -
the doppelganger is morias shadow right? so if Luffy takes him and holds him hostage how Moria can have his shadow?
Exactly what I'm saying. Admittedly, perhaps Moria can just snap his fingers, turn Doppelman into bats, and get his shadow back. It's entirely up in the air at this point.
BTW, thanks stephen for clearing up the whole "Nami-san is unconscious because her shadow was taken" thing.
@stephen's:Absalom: Wahahahaha…
See that...
I'm the one laughing in the end!!
That sedative worked like a charm…
Let's find a better place...
To finish up our ceremony, my silent bride!!
Gerff. -
I am not totally sure that Luffy s DF wouldn't make a difference, just imagine a jet gatling against OhrZZ, I tend to think it would damage him somehow.
But for the rest I agree with Ivotas, I really don't think Luffy will fight someone other than Moria.If Luffy beats Moria or Odz by going Gear 2 or 3, I'll be pretty disappointed in Oda.
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the doppelganger is morias shadow right? so if Luffy takes him and holds him hostage how Moria can have his shadow?
or what were you saying?
still if the sun rule aplies to him is uncertain imo since it is his DF power. Special rules might apply to him.
How would Luffy hold the shadow in the first place, it's a damn shadow. Also, it's not like holding Moria down would stop him from calling his own shadow back in the first place.
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the difference is that Oggy is something that must be defeated somehow. wether it is by haveing moria order him or purifying him with salt.
I remember back then during the Enies Lobby arc people saying the exact same thing about the Buster Call. But they didn´t really defeat it by the strenght of arms. And Odz will probably follow the same example.
there is a chance the strawhats must somehow subdue Oggy for him to listen to Moria. (stupid thing would probably not listen to new orders if he is distracted by hunting the strawhat crew… and its hard to force Moria to say anything if Oggy is attacking Luffy, while Luffy is trying to force the order from Moria.)
I still think that the "reprogramming" thing could work here. Seeing that Odz couldn´t recognize Usopp he is as naive as Luffy, so if the Strawhats could make it to replace those wanted posters on his arm I´m sure he would adapt the new prey even though he already attacked them now.
Either that or he´s going to be like "wow that skeleton talks from his afro" and Brook invites him on a drink of healthy and salty seawater.^^
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@Kidany:
How would Luffy hold the shadow in the first place, it's a damn shadow. Also, it's not like holding Moria down would stop him from calling his own shadow back in the first place.
by immitateing wapol and eating doppelman… =P
I dont know. I wasn't argueing that Luffy would take the shadow hostage, i was just pointing out that the other guy were assumeing he could and that Morias shadow were seperated from Moria.
Ivotas: sorry i didnt mean that he needed to be defeated by force. just that he was an obstacle they couldnt pass around since he still has Luffys shadow (like they did with the buster call and the big snake in skypiea). beating him by tricking him, haveing Moria ordering him or with brute force is all accepteble possibilities.
that said the possibility that Oggy must be subdued by force remains. which means people will speculate on who delivers the finishing blow and if Luffy will be involved in the battle and whatnot.
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We released an MQ scan guys. A little late but it is worth it.
Now to the story–
The zombie equation for strength is soo correct now. I was soo hoping for a grand battle royal right after the spetacular RyuumA vs Zoro clash. But this is a complete whooping.A luffy shadow plus a giant who conquered islands and continents with sheer brute strength === the straw hats are no match.
What is gonna happen now. Oda sensei sure knows how to twist things. No use trying to predict here.
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Ivotas: sorry i didnt mean that he needed to be defeated by force. just that he was an obstacle they couldnt pass around since he still has Luffys shadow (like they did with the buster call and the big snake in skypiea). beating him by tricking him, haveing Moria ordering him or with brute force is all accepteble possibilities.
Yeah, I figured that you meant something like that actually that´s why I put the "defeated by strenght of arms" in there afterwards (though it seems that it was so quick that there´s no mention of the edit at all^^).
that said the possibility that Oggy must be subdued by force remains. which means people will speculate on who delivers the finishing blow and if Luffy will be involved in the battle and whatnot.
I agree it does. And yes, the speculation on that field will of course remain. I was merely adding my two cents on that matter. So I guess I can leave it like that and play the waiting game now. :)
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What is gonna happen now. Oda sensei sure knows how to twist things. No use trying to predict here.
It was NEVER "use"….....I know,sound stupid,but the ESENCE is true.Oda is UNPREDICTABLE-also,this chapter delivers a conection at high speed to the gluteus maximus of the guy who started the "Has Oda lost his touch?" thread.
Where are you know,huh? -
He's probably on NarutoFan.
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… first of all Oda leaves signs such as usopps lies... plot twists like the laboon-brook connection could be predicted. while he is imaginative and an awesome storyteller with his own ideas he is not completly unpredictable.
second of all the "has oda lost his touch guy" was asking and trying for a discussion (although most people missed thisd point). he wasnt actually saying that Oda was getting crappy...
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Wtf… Luffy cant beat Odz. Gear 3 is to weak AND to slow for him. Man you Guys are overrating Luffy here... If Zoro and Sanji could not even touch or damage him then Luffy cant do it either.
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Saying Brook's connection to Laboon was foreshadowed is like saying that Naruto's stupid facepaint for his bio picture was foreshadowing a Jiraiya connection.
Oh wait…
@Xskart:Wtf… Luffy cant beat Odz. Gear 3 is to weak AND to slow for him. Man you Guys are overrating Luffy here... If Zoro and Sanji could not even touch or damage him then Luffy cant do it either.
Yes, it seems a bit cliched for Luffy to suddenly be able to accomplish what the entire combined forces of his crew could not.
So far, Brook was the only one to fight his own zombie, and he failed miserably. Unless Blackbeard or Shanks shows up, I don't think we'll be seeing Oz get K.O.'ed. -
I see several possibilites. Either Sanji makes a special meal for Odz, as a tribute to beating them (and makes it extra salty…) Usopp takes all the remaining salt pellets and uses the cannon to fire the salt into Odz's mouth...Or they just have to wait for Luffy to force Moria to give the command for all shadows to return to their master.
(Besides, who said it needs to be heard by the zombies? Thriller barque is huge. it wouldn't be heard by all zombies, so that means that she shadws would all need to "sense" the command rather than "hear" it.)
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Wtf… Luffy cant beat Odz. Gear 3 is to weak AND to slow for him. Man you Guys are overrating Luffy here... If Zoro and Sanji could not even touch or damage him then Luffy cant do it either.
Too weak? Based on what? Gear 3 has the potential to be the size of a tower. As for too slow, I'm inclined to agree…except Franky is the slower member of the Shs. But, that's more or less probably right, I'm just saying there's room for error.
Now, as for having Luffy beat Odz, no. Luffy's going to beat Moria, there's no way he's taking a break to go fight Odz. Otherwise why chase him so far? Luffy didn't even respond to "your fighting power is killing your crew!"
That and, Moria is the real threat here, not Odz...technically. Odz may be stronger then Moria physically, but as long as Moria's shadow power is animating Odz's body, Moria has compete control over him.
It's just like Odz said, he is Moria's servant. And...Luffy is weaker then his entire crew combined by a long shot.
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Moria is the key to ending everything. No shadows, no zombies. Then all that remains is to beat the everloving SHIT out of Absalom… again.
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@IT'S:
Saying Brook's connection to Laboon was foreshadowed is like saying that Naruto's stupid facepaint for his bio picture was foreshadowing a Jiraiya connection.
Oh wait…i'm not entirely sure foreshadowed is the word i would want to use, but the connection brook-laboon was suggested before it was revealed. I think someone else said it was predicted on some chineese forum as well.
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@IT'S:
Moria is the key to ending everything. No shadows, no zombies. Then all that remains is to beat the everloving SHIT out of Absalom… again.
Hey, it's not going to be Sanji who does it this time, that's for sure seeing as he got the worst beating in this chapter. That's an opening a lot of fun possibilities.
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Hey, it's not going to be Sanji who does it this time, that's for sure seeing as he got the worst beating in this chapter. That's an opening a lot of fun possibilities.
is calculating possible ways for Nami to destroy Absy's sorry ass
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I don't quite understand why all of you are writing this fight off already. The strawhats are all still alive and conscious. Odz kicked some ass but he took some hits as well. The fight's not over yet.
If the entire strawhat crew works together, then I really don't see why they couldn't defeat odz. He's not invulnerable after all.
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think some people misstook the strawhats sequenced attacks for teamwork/joint attack.
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Yeah, anybody noticed the upsurge in combo attacks? Two in one arc. Maybe there are more to come.
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great chapter overall lots of destruction,cant wait to see how it plays.
man odz needs lots of cash to fix that tooth. -
Hey, it's not going to be Sanji who does it this time, that's for sure seeing as he got the worst beating in this chapter. That's an opening a lot of fun possibilities.
He got the worst beating, but all that that resulted was a sore eye. He looked quite unscratched when he captured Nami again. I don't know, I just want to see more stuff from that skin implant gimmick… kinda like Master Roshi when he goes bumped.
And Nami won't free off of Absalom that easily. Remember she fried him and it hadn't much effect.
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alright brooke it's time for you to shine and do something. now that oz has defeated the strawhats with the exception of nami, you think he will go and get nami and beat the hell out of absalom in the process? after all he was given orders to capture all the strawhats and either kill them or put them on the ship. i don't think absalom is gonna want to give nami to him and that's gonna be the end of him. after he destroys absalom i see him taking the strawhats and putting them on the ship and at that time luffy will fight moria and will defeat him before absalom can send the strawhats away. would be a cool visual if luffy makes moria give back the shadows and just at the time oz has the thousand sunny in his hands and then he falls into the ocean along with the ship. at that time all the strawhats wake up and go back to the island to find a k.o'ed moria. i don't want to see the strawhats defeat oz since i want them to save the giant ass kicking for elbaf.
Luffy hasn't fought oz yet. :/
And if luffy foughtOz and won his shadow would return. I mean come on, brooke's shadow did when his zombie that had it was beaten.
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I think Ryuuma's shadow instictively reacted to his Samurai Spirit, you know, the stuff (Zanpakuto?? XD) about samurai commiting suicide after being defeated by other samurais. Anyways, maybe this means that there's something about the zombies that even Moria's influence can't control, wich would also explain how Cindry, a person who cared more about her family than herself, reacted when Chopper said the line of what would her family think if they saw her like that.
The Problem Is, Oz was a conqueror as far as we know, so I doubt that there's a way to make him react in some way that would make things easier for the crew….
PS: I find kinda ridiculous that Luffy hasn't stretched his arms already to capture Moria or at least use a Pistol. I know Oda doesn't want to rush with the Big Fight, but it strikes as OOC that Luffy, who was very willing to kick Moria's ass, is just running around when he's a freakin Rubber Man.
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Running around… I'm guessing that is a case of shortenend time perspective, the good events's time flow slower untill they are focused in the plot.
They didn't do teamwork, they only attacked in secuence, and neither chopper or robin trully attacked. (I doubt that chopper even hit odz fist comming at him)
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I knew Oda couldn't refrain from giving Nami a fight. For once I thought he was gonna switch her and Robin around for a bit, but nope… Nami will once again get second spotlight, after Luffy.
The fight against Oz was alright, but the SHs got a little too damaged a little too quickly.
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second of all the "has oda lost his touch guy" was asking and trying for a discussion (although most people missed thisd point).
Yes, that was ironic: that there were complaints about Japanese AP members not participating in discussion, but that when one tried – in good spirit -- to strike up a discussion about Japanese perceptions of the manga and rest-of-the-world perceptions of the manga, he was treated with contempt!
he wasnt actually saying that Oda was getting crappy…
Exactly. He was saying that this was a perception of many Japanese fans, but not especially an absolute, and because of that, he was wondering why the rest of the world seemed to think differently. He wasn't saying "we rule and you suck", but so many people misinterpreted it that way.
If I'm remembering correctly, he came to the same conclusion that I did: that each person will compare the most recent arc to his/her favorite arc, and will say that Oda is either "losing it" or "gaining it back" depending on how closely the current arc resembles the spirit, themes, artwork, mood and flow of a favorite arc. So for the person who liked Alabasta best, this arc is probably "a let-down". But for the person who liked DBF best, this is probably "a return to form".
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I was hoping to see how much people enjoyed the chapter instead of all this squabbling for once, but alas…
I have to say, I have been looking forward to seeing the crew fight a giant ever since Luffy fought Dorry (while heavily injured by an exploding stomach). Oz appears to be much faster then Dorry and Broggy were, but then again he is also larger, and is legendarily powerful is seems.
That said, and as already stated in the thread, the crew didn't seem to have much teamwork, and then got decimated one or more at a time pretty fast. Now the crew is in a fight they cannot win with personal strength alone, so I'm expecting a Usopp + Chopper fight but on a much grander scale with a whole team of people.
I loved the chapter and can't wait for the next one, I'm anticipating the Oz fight more then the Moria one.
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Well, from one of the earlier chapters, we have it said how Odz destroyed/conquered stuff in the north (I can't remember which it is now), and now we have this:
from calos net at manga helpers
….Robin: ............!! "Oz"...!! / I've heard that name somewhere... // .........He douldn't possibly be... / ...that "Demon" Oz from the Kunihiki Legends?!!
I wonder what else Robin might reveal in upcoming chapters about Odz's past…
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This is actually the same thing that already got revealed about him. It´s only the different translations that make it appear as if it is different info. From Stephen´s Script on 456:
Hogback: "I can't wait… When I saw his corpse in the Land of Ice... I couldn't stop trembling. To think, that dreadful thing was wreaking havoc on the seas, 500 years ago...!!As he conquered each island, he took the entire thing back to his land creating a country of villains. The very man behind the legend of the "Nation-puller"…!!!"
And on this chapter 470:
Robin: "…Odz!! I thought I recognized the name...It couldn't be the very same...The devil Odz, behind the legend of the "Nation-puller"?"
So far there´s no new info on him unfortunally. In fact, there isn´t even half as much info as Hogback revealed by saying what Nation-puller means actually or saying that it all took place 500 years ago. But I´m sure that she´ll reveal a little bit more since she must know a bit about the legend, no matter how little.
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@$abZ:
The fight against Oz was alright, but the SHs got a little too damaged a little too quickly.
Wait…..you're actually disapointed the SH's got their asses raped for once?
I felt this should've happened long, long ago. -
Nation Puller? Reminds me of the dex entry for Regigigas when it said he pulled a continent with a rope.
Anyone think Odz might be related to those ancient weapons?