You still haven't answered my question though, how could crocodiles absence be a threat to the balance if the marines could allegedly match the yonkou by themselve's. It makes more sense if both groups are needed, not just one to balance. because if one was enough, the yonkou would not be a problem and the Gorosei would not have a heart attack over one shichibukai being defeated. Also, your ignoring garps statements.
The 3 Great Powers Of The World
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@Sea:
You still haven't answered my question though, how crocodiles absence be a threat to the balance if the marines could allegedly match the yonkou by themselve's. It makes more sense if both groups are needed, not just one to balance. because if one was enough, the yonkou would not be a problem and the Gorosei would not have a heart attack over one shichibukai. Also, your ignoring garps statements.
I already told you.
the WG made(deal with 7 strong pirates) shichibukai 2 cut the odds of them loseing. 2 no one wins and no one loses. cuz if the schichibukai wont around then there be alot more yonkou and then the WG would fall.
you keep ignoring what grap is saying. your hearing but not listening.:getlost:
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I already told you.
the WG made(deal with 7 strong pirates) shichibukai 2 cut the odds of them loseing. 2 no one wins and no one loses. cuz if the schichibukai wont around then there be alot more yonkou and then the WG would fall.
you keep ignoring what grap is saying. your hearing but not listening.:getlost:
- That's your theory, there is no evidence that there would be more emperors running around if the shichbukai doesn't exsist. How you came to that wild conclusion is your business,But, it's not evidence supporting your argument nor will I accept ias an answer.
So, I'll ask you again, what purpose do the shichibukai serve if the marines are enough to match the yonkou?
I can't "Hear" anything, I simply read what you say.
Your ignoring garps statements, Tell me if one groups is enought o match the yonkou. How is the exsistence of two groups that can match the yonkou a counter balance.
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Grap didnt imply anything.
I could say luffy fought shanks and Jinbei am i implying he fought them togther? no man im sleepy
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it was stated that the 3 powers are equal. not SB+MH=yonkou
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Grap didnt imply anything.
I could say luffy fought shanks and Jinbei am i implying he fought them togther? no man im sleepy
Yes he is implying, why else would he mention them in the same sentence, and proceed to claim the purpose of their exsistence is to counter balance the yonkou.:wassat:
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it was stated that the 3 powers are equal. not SB+MH=yonkou
No where was that stated, that's just your interpertation.:happy:
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I can say Luffy fought Blueno AND Lucci, I am I "implying" he fought both combined/together (The answer is no )
Garp said the Shichibukai and the Marines can 'withstand" the Four Emperors might. He never said combined/together or any other garbage that FFA is implying.
Its not SB+MH=yonkou
Its SB=MH=Yonkou.
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Man your dense…
I can say Luffy fought Blueno AND Lucci, I am I "implying" he fought both combined/together (The answer is no Genious)?
Garp said the Shichibukai and the Marines can 'withstand" the Four Emperors might. He never said combined/together or any other garbage you are implying.
Easy on the insults, your not so bright yourself my friend. Despite garp explicitley saying that the shichibukai and the marines exsist to counter balance the yonkou. You insist they are equal as individual groups and not working in unisence. So, far you haven't given a reason as to why , instead you just keep talking about the word "AND". It's not because he said "and" while mentioning the marines and shichibukai in the same sentence. It's because he said both of them exsist to counter balance the yonkou.
If one group was already enough, how could adding another counter balance a group that they allegedly are equal to by thgemselves?
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I am standing by my statement that S=M=Y.
Schichibukai are wobbly and there is no way in hell that they are mindless followers like Marine A or Marine B. They have their own plans. They also might differ a lot. If they have a world's best there and Luffy beat another guy, I think that means they vary more than the Yonkou or WG vary.
One Schichibukai might be able to take out 600 guys in one move. Another might take out 700.
Whitebeard could rip 40 guys in half, within 5 minutes, Shanks can cut 42 guys in half withing five minutes.
I'm just giving an examply hypothesis.
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The only shichubukai we know for sure to have minions as of now are Donquixte Donflamingo. Croc had alot and but most of them were nothing but canon fodder. The "Billions" of baroque works were no different than Marine A and B.
Even if they have there own agenda's, they are still a group versus the yonkou who are not one. -
@Sea:
Easy on the insults, your not so bright yourself my friend. Despite garp explicitley saying that the shichibukai and the marines exsist to counter balance the yonkou. You insist they are equal as individual groups and not in unisence.So, far you haven't given a reason as to why you just keep talking about the word "AND". It's not because he said and, it's because he said both of them exsist to counter balance the yonkou.
Garp: Among the countless masses of pirates in the world,
he is one of the four greatest, along with the infamous Whitebeard, that dwell in the latter half of the Grand Line.These pirates, who rule above all others almost as an emperor does,are called the Four Emperors, or Yonko!!!
It is only Marine Headquarters and the Seven Armed Seas that can withstand their might!! These "Three Great Powers" form a precarious balance that keeps the world from destruction, lest it fall.Show me where Garp says The Shichibukai and the marines exist to counter balance the Yonkou?:wassat: Please don't tell me you got this from MSN where the translations are not accurate. Otherwise Your ignoring the manga and what is stated.
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Show me where Garp says The Shichibukai and the marines exist to counter balance the Yonkou?:wassat: Please don't tell me you got this from MSN where the translations are not accurate. Otherwise Your ignoring the manga and what is stated.
Seems you weren't paying attention since, I already posted it. Yes, i's from msn, if your claiming the translation is wrong than please offer up a better one. Either way, the burden of proof is on you.
Because I already posted a mass of evidence supoorting my case several times. That of which you haven't answered at all.
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@Sea:
Seems you weren't paying attention since, I already posted it. Yes, i's from msn, if your claiming the translation is wrong than please offer up a better one. Either way, the burden of proof is on you.
Because I already posted a mass of evidence supoorting my case several times.
Need a translation that is official (very close)…..
http://www.mangascreener.com/stephen/onepiece/chapter432.txt
Now come on impresse me! :getlost:
Mass evidence? what….. all you did was go off of what garp said. and IMPYLING
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MSN where the translations are not accurate. Otherwise Your ignoring the manga and what is stated.
Where do you get your manga then? I'm curious. It's the closest thing we have and Wikipedia uses it as well.
The only shichubukai we know for sure to have minions as of now are Donquixte Donflamingo. Croc had alot and but most of them were nothing but canon fodder.
Croc had people that did not fit into the pirate category like Mr. 4. And Mr. 2's ship also had the Jolly Roger I think, but he could always pretend he has a fetish for 2.
If you fly the Roger, THEN YOU ARE PIRATE! LOL LIMEWIRE
I think the reason why Bellamy's crew listened to what Doflamingo said, is because they respect and fear him. If you happen to be a pirate and a guy who works for the WG turns into Gozilla and demands something, what do you do? You listen.
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Need a translation that is official (very close)…..
http://www.mangascreener.com/stephen/onepiece/chapter432.txt
Now come on impresse me! :getlost:
Mass evidence what all you did was go off of what garp said. and IMPYLING
And now where does it say all three are equal.
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@Sea:
And now where does it say all three are equal.
Have you been reading this thread? Garp states it for you. Also I like the way you tried to change the subject.:getlost:
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Have you been reading this thread? Garp states it for you. Also I like the way you tried to change the subject.:getlost:
Where did I change the subject?
Yeah, and that's my point, he states that the marines and shichibukai are the only ones who can stand against them.
the WG fears contact between the 4 pirates and if the marines were enough why would the shichibukai be needed as an opposition let alone exsisit?
Also, if the shichibukai are just as threatening as the yonkou, how com they are treated way differently. The WG worries about the yonkou coming into contact with each other let alone talking. Yet, they leisurely create a group for there supposed equals?
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@Sea:
Where did I change the subject?
Yeah, and that's my point, he states that the marines and shichibukai are the only ones who can stand against them.
the WG fears contact between the 4 pirates and if the marines were enough why would the shichibukai be needed as an opposition let alone exsisit?
Only oda knows why the government created (made a deal with pirates) the Shichibukai I only go along with what has been stated.
and for that quetion that only oda can answer, I gave you my theory.
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Only oda knows why the government created (made a deal with pirates) the Shichibukai I only go along with what has been stated.
and for that quetion that only oda can answer, I gave you my theory.
I edited it, please answer my last question.
If the shichibukai are just as powerful as the yonkou, why would the WG make them into a group while the Yonkou aren't even supposed to come into contact with one another? -
Lessee…
If the WG was made up of 3 parts, each 1/3 the power of the current WG and they met up, the Yonkou would be worried. If the Yonkou grouped up, the WG would be worried.
I would like to say emperors also have to plan battles and such, so it can't be mindless fighting.
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Lessee…
If the WG was made up of 3 parts, each 1/3 the power of the current WG and they met up, the Yonkou would be worried. If the Yonkou grouped up, the WG would be worried.
I would like to say emperors also have to plan battles and such, so it can't be mindless fighting.
The yonkou aren't worried, while the WG is and that's the problem.
How can a group that is affiliated with 170 countries, has army of marines with powerful officers and battleships. And form an alliance with an equally powerful group of pirates which rivals there Main military force in power. be extremely worried about 4 pirate crews, if said pirates were only able to match a third of there power? -
Like I said there's 3 possibilities based in what we know
1 - Marine HQ = Shichi Bukai = 4 Great Pirates (was individuals) (this one is the most logical)
2 - Marine HQ weaker then Shichi Bukai (together) = 4 Great Pirates (together) (this one implies that Shichi Bukai have to reach out for their Pirate crews if they still exist or their criminal friends)
3 - Marine HQ and Shichi Bukai = 4 Great Pirates (together) (this one is harder to explain but can also be explained)
And to finalize I'll say the Shichi Bukai don't exist at the present moment, the are only 6 members and not 7, until a new member is acepted
P.S. - Just keep in mind that nothing is an absolute truth and all possibilities are viable
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@Sea:
I edited it, please answer my last question.
If the shichibukai are just as powerful as the yonkou, why would the WG make them into a group while the Yonkou aren't even supposed to come into contact with one another?Like I said in my last post only oda can answer that.:getlost: man your slow, and I never said that there just as powerful i said all 3 are equal.
It is stated in the manga. Dont ask me thing that only Oda can answer.:getlost:
By the way good jod on changeing the subject again. Now sea king show me where Garp states shichibukai combind/together/teamed up or whatever marines fight or equal yonkou.
You talk as if shichibukai work togther.
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This post is just to settle the fact if the Seven warlords have a crew or not. well to answer your question yes but that does not mean that they are all pirates. Crocs crew were made up from mostly bounty hunters. Don has a pirate crew but it seems to me that he is behind the shadows sort of like a pirate sponser. Hawk eye choose not to have a crew that is why he goes solo. Jinbei case is why we are all confused so im not going to go into that. and nothing is mentioned of bear. I view the warlords as godfathers a mafia type figure conducting whatever crime they see fit. Unlike pirates who follow a set of principles. These seven warlords have not set princple and that is why i view them as mafioso figures.
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^ Good point there. The shichibukai aren't "just pirates" anymore, but rather it seems they all have jobs and goals outside of piracy, at least in the sense of Whtiebeard and the pirates in East Blue. They became shichibukai to maybe accomplish something, while leaving true piracy aside.
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The problem is we really don't have much info on the Shichibukai, or rather, they are the most complex of the three powers, and yet are most important to the balance. Look it, the Marines' and Yonkou's affiliations are known. We can quite accurately predict how they would react to a situation. But the Shichibukai…we can't even agree on whether they have their crews or not. If they still stick to their crews/orgs, that would make them more like pirates than a neutral, apathetic group.
Personally, I think the whole balance thing only referred to each groups heads, seeing as technically, the SB have to give up on their crews for their position. So it would make no sense to say that & pirates, no matter how powerful, can be as strong as 4 of the most powerful pirate crews put together, and as strong as the Marines, an organization that includes possibly millions of soliders (think all across the Redline, Grandline, and 170 countries). So it most likely refers to 3 Admirials+Sengoku = Shichibukai = Yonkou. This also means each SB, when it comes to a one one one fight with any other Yonkou or Admirial, can defeat or be defeated.
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I thought it just meant that out of all big powers in the world, the only powers that are capable of keeping the Four Emperors at bay were Marine Headquarters and the Seven Warlords. They wouldn't be called the 3 Great Powers if two of them were weaker than the third.
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following that thought, they wouldnt be the three great powers if two of them worked together
that would be the 2 great powers for anyone who didnt get that..
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I think the whole 3 Great Powers argument is missing one element, did any one consider the Strawhats and Dragon (they are outside elements that joined in the mix) ?
Now I know this is a little off Topic
But this 2 elements make the precarious balance of the 3 Great Powers change (already happen once when Luffy defeated Crocodile)
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Personally, I think the whole balance thing only referred to each groups heads, seeing as technically, the SB have to give up on their crews for their position. So it would make no sense to say that & pirates, no matter how powerful, can be as strong as 4 of the most powerful pirate crews put together, and as strong as the Marines, an organization that includes possibly millions of soliders (think all across the Redline, Grandline, and 170 countries). So it most likely refers to 3 Admirials+Sengoku = Shichibukai = Yonkou. This also means each SB, when it comes to a one one one fight with any other Yonkou or Admirial, can defeat or be defeated.
I agree with that. I always thought the fact 7 individuals could be as powerful as the hundreds of thousands of elite soldiers from Marine HQ made no sense at all. At least the Emperors have probably ridiculous powerful pirates under their orders, the likes of Ace, Marco or Jaws, which explains how they can oppose and even beat the Marine Vice Admirals for ex.
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Its partly due to fear and command. The Shichibukai have to be greatly feared around the seas, making other pirates tremble. They have access to resources via World Government stuff like information and other things which the 4 don't have. Being allowed to do as they please relieves some of the pressure off the Marines as they can then 'ignore' certain islands and focus efforts elsewhere.
Most of all, they can walk through a Marine base and not get attacked, whereas the 4 would find a couple of hundred guns up their noses.
One thing that I do question is if being a Shichibukai limits things like progression. They can't travel forward in the grandline because of the 4 are there, they are can't progress that way. They can't run riot like Croc did or risk loosing the 'ignore' factor from the WG. They have more freedom then the Yonkou but at the same time less. The Yonkou can do anything they please but the WG is always watching and waiting to strike.
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The yonkou aren't worried, while the WG is and that's the problem.
How can a group that is affiliated with 170 countries, has army of marines with powerful officers and battleships. And form an alliance with an equally powerful group of pirates which rivals there Main military force in power. be extremely worried about 4 pirate crews, if said pirates were only able to match a third of there power?I'm saying, if the WG was split into three and they each had a third of the power of the current WG, ruled a third of the countries under WG's command each and such, then all grouped together, the Yonkou would be kinda worried, wouldn't they?
It's not always boozefests, raids and parties for emperors. Though they do have them quite often, it isn't their entire life.
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if grand time has new info on the 3 great powers we can end some of these debates and make some new ones Ya hahah
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if grand time has new info on the 3 great powers we can end some of these debates and make some new ones Ya hahah
…but it doesn't... Ya hahah
In any case, chances are that the Shichibukai have existed longer than the Yonkoh. Unless Shanks had someone preceding him, his threat to the government had to have arose in the 22 years that Roger's been dead. Chances are that the World Government has had privateers to control pirates better and obtain riches for years way before Roger's death. However, if Oda's basing this off history, then it may be similar to Queen Elizabeth I's hiring of "Sea Dogs" (Privateers) such as Sir Francis Drake and allowing them to ransack Spanish ships due to the grand power of the Spanish Armada. In that case, the WG's position would be England, Shichibukai as the Sea Dogs, and the yonkoh as Sea Dogs, in which, England and the Sea Dogs have banded together to take down Spain.
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@Le:
…but it doesn't... Ya hahah
In any case, chances are that the Shichibukai have existed longer than the Yonkoh. Unless Shanks had someone preceding him, his threat to the government had to have arose in the 22 years that Roger's been dead. Chances are that the World Government has had privateers to control pirates better and obtain riches for years way before Roger's death. However, if Oda's basing this off history, then it may be similar to Queen Elizabeth I's hiring of "Sea Dogs" (Privateers) such as Sir Francis Drake and allowing them to ransack Spanish ships due to the grand power of the Spanish Armada. In that case, the WG's position would be England, Shichibukai as the Sea Dogs, and the yonkoh as Sea Dogs, in which, England and the Sea Dogs have banded together to take down Spain.
I thought page 267/last page of the grand times said something about the 3 great powers. good info 2 Ya haha
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At best, it's not info that's gonna shatter this debate. The thing's just like a little recap for God's sake.
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@Le:
At best, it's not info that's gonna shatter this debate. The thing's just like a little recap for God's sake.
ya didnt have to bring god into this you know.:getlost: but it could shut down a few debates in this thread.
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That made absolutely no sense what you said. What I said basically was that there's basically nothing new in Grand Times, and whatever is in there could be figured out through researching.
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One Piece Grand Times does not have new information, it's just a recap of important informations given during the manga till the present time
Of course the informations are focused on the elements that will be revealed or given more information about later in the manga
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Man that sucks ….......alot
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I see why everyone is discussing the 3 powers here, but I think the tipping point wont come from any of these three powers. I think the reason Luffy's dad is now mentioned is because his group can be considered a 4th power. The Rebels will most likely tip the balanace in favor of the Emperors. I don't see anyother reason for Oda to bring up the news otherwise. This way if the Pirates beat the Marines and Luffy beats the pirates… Then he shall be number 1 and he will be closest to acheiving One Piece.
Of course that isnt to say that Luffy wont beat some Admirals and the 7 gods. I think its already obvious that his match with Blackbeard(future member), Aokiji, and Whitebeard are inevitable. But I also think Luffy's dad will kill a few of the 7 and probably a couple of admirals himself. This belief of mine comes from the fact that Smoker dared not challenge him.
Ok i probably wrote too much for first post already... i will look forward to some of your thoughts...:ninja:
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The Yonkou are very strong, in my opinion. Though Oda has yet to confirm the other two crews that are part of it, so we can only assume their strength by Whitebeard's and Shanks'. Whitebeard, being considered the strongest man in the world, obviously promotes the Yonkou in terms of power, so the other three will be around the same amount of power as him… obviously a little less. The Shichibukai also have four members (maybe soon a fifth), however I believe Whitebeard could easily expose of one or maybe even two (not at the same time). Though if Blackbeard joins, Whitebeard may have a little more trouble if a battle between the two powers begins. Yet, I really doubt that Donflamingo, Kuma and Jimbei are as powerful as Mihawk, who is around about equal to Shanks, who is speculated to be around equal to the other two Yonkou crew leaders.
As for the Navy, they have more members, including the Admirals, but the Admirals are the only real big threats. Sengoku can also be considered a threat, as he "knows the seas well" and so can Monkey D. Garp, for his heroic reputation that he cornered Gol D. Roger (my guess is that they are related, so a personal bond helped Garp corner him. Not exactly strength). But I doubt they can manage, since they need the help of the Shichibukai, and also fear the Yonkou's power a lot.
But the WG also fear Monkey D. Dragon, which makes them fear the Revolutionary. Although little is known about the Revolutionary, I believe they are a massive threat, just as the Yonkou are. Dragon seems powerful, but there must be some other members just as powerful, which leads me to believe they could defeat the Shichibukai... and maybe be on par with the Yonkou. But I can only assume, since the Revolutionary are too mysterious at this point.
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The Yonkou seems to me to have formidable captains in their own right, able to match the other more powerful people around the world, as well as having crews of formidable compositions as well. The thing is, they are 4 "Emperors" that have no formal alliance or anything with each other. They are merely a powerful group of people in the second part, while the Marines is one organization of people also somewhat in command of the Shichibukai. Whereas the shichibukai are a loosely connected band of pirate-hunters with or without crews of their own.
So basically I'd say something like… ( with my mathskills being horrendous! ) that the Yonkou are 2/3rds the world's power in their four groups ( Whitebeard, Red Hairs and two unknown who are quite possibly slugging it out for dominance in some way ), while the latter 1/3rd is the Marines with their colossal organization and manpower alongside the Shichibukai who are a bunch of loosely connected powerful people with or without crews. The weak link in all this is most likely the Shichibukai and the potential for the Yonkou to have talks amongst themselves, effectively uniting all that power while there's a chance of there being a dividing ( more than now ) in the power of the Shichibukai.
So when there was news of a potential meeting with the greater powers in the world, the Yonkou, while at the same time they are losing Shichibukai I am imagining the Marines being perfectly aware that the Yonkou can't be managed.
Perhaps I'm saying that the Yonkou divided are manageable, whereas if they were to band together they'd knock the shit out of all opposition. It seems to me like that's a sound way to see it, and that Luffy and Blackbeard are wreaking havoc with the "natural order" of things in the way they are storming forward.
I hope that made sense >.> -
@$abZ:
. Yet, I really doubt that Donflamingo, Kuma and Jimbei are as powerful as Mihawk, who is around about equal to Shanks, who is speculated to be around equal to the other two Yonkou crew leaders.
So faw with the lil power that Flamingo has showed us, he looks like hes on the same/around level as Mihawk. if you really think about it the dude whigles his fingers and people die, we dont even know how many people he can control at a time, or if he can control any objects, and he talked some S**t to Sengoku a guy that knows the sea that had monsters in it like Rogers and the Whitebeard. The Whitebeard talked highly about him, and he runs the marines. Kuma the bear the man carrys a bible, and was not impressed by Donflamingo what so ever. and JINBEI hes a whale shark and alot of hype has been placed on him way back when, so you know he has to be a bomshell/powerhouse.
Being Hollywood anit for every pirate.
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I was wondering if the other powers know of Whitebeards condition. (sickness or whatever) If shanks and his crew are the only enemy that knows whitebeard condition do you think that there tryin to keep it a secret, B/c if the other 2 powers found out then they will go after Whitebeard, and once whitebeard goes they all go.
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I was wondering if the other powers know of Whitebeards condition. (sickness or whatever) If shanks and his crew are the only enemy that knows whitebeard condition do you think that there tryin to keep it a secret, B/c if the other 2 powers found out then they will go after Whitebeard, and once whitebeard goes they all go.
Or it's possible they know he's not so deteriorated they'll risk losing tons of men on trying to get him when they know there's each other waiting to pick up the scraps, and a million Marines breathing down their necks. To me it seems like the "new world" is in a check, and they're only waiting for a peasant to break it on his run for kingship.
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I was wondering if the other powers know of Whitebeards condition. (sickness or whatever) If shanks and his crew are the only enemy that knows whitebeard condition do you think that there tryin to keep it a secret, B/c if the other 2 powers found out then they will go after Whitebeard, and once whitebeard goes they all go.
Even with his "sickness or whatever", Whitebeard is still considered the strongest man in the world, and I assume his crew is the largest and strongest pirate crew in the world. So really, even if the other two crews did know, they may still hesitate to attack, until either his sickness gets worse or if one Yonkou crew teams up with the other (which I think will happen with the two unknown crews, in order to defeat Whitebeard).
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Is there any chance that Dragon is one of the Four Emperors ???
And any speculations about WB's power? Is he also a DF user? I don't think so -
whitebeard…... DF...... no I dont think so