think Elbaf(The island of giants) is in the new world? While the SH's didnt reach it it could have been on a diferent path in the grandline(THe SH's took one of the seven paths). Knowing Oda he will bring it up,and since after Fishman island they will be in the new world do you think it is there?
Think elbaf
-
-
This post is deleted!
-
I know we shouldn't support necro-posting but, man, this was funny
-
It’s been over 20 years but we finally made it!
-
I wish I worked out more 16 years ago. It's possible, but it's really easier to do that when you're younger.
-
Aw, man, you took the post down?
Did you at least take a print screen? -
We made it folks!
-
Referenced by F FolhaS
-
Could we please have an official Elbaf thread to start off with instead of a 15+ year old thread?
-
I think the 17 year old thread is the best possible outcome.
-
I vote to keep this as the main thread. The 17-year-later revival brings me great joy.
About as emblematic of the longevity of this fanbase as you can get.
-
Wish there was a bit more meat/story to it, but the way Elbaf opened was fun. Just a fun adventure of some of the crew trapped in a giant otaku’s playground where he roleplays as a god. We always say the story needs more small one offs, that’s about as close to that formula as you can get.
-
@Md-Martin kudos to everyone who has stuck around for so long. Not just the one piece fandom, but these forums, and thanks for those who have joined since. Still probably my favorite place to read one piece info even after all this time. And a remembrance for all those who have come and gone and/or moved forward/left/passed.
Originally Posted by Nightwing
Stay focused, cause right now you have a decision to make. Are you a man perpetually looking back at what he’s lost, or a man looking forward, to what he might become?
-
Damn, 2008 I was 12 years old at the time and the internet was unknown to me.
At least the One Piece side and I was only reading the volumes when they came out.
I second this to be the Elbaph/Elbaf main thread. -
@Gizmo said in Think elbaf:
@Md-Martin kudos to everyone who has stuck around for so long. Not just the one piece fandom, but these forums, and thanks for those who have joined since.
March 2007 for me.
I think you, Ubiq, Greg, Wolfwood, and Satsuki are the only ones left that have been around longer. Was Kishido from that era?
At least a few of us still from 2007-early 2008 though. Nobodyman, Kitsune, Insider, Crossword, Darkstorm....
-
@Robby just checked Kishido was 2007. Daz was also 2005.
I can’t recall the APForum eras and how they’re divided, but think anyone here that has been around pre-timeskip is pretty OG.
It’s wild how careers have progressed too, with Greg and Stephen working officially on the series.
I remember posting an amv for the One Piece Podcast when they were more prominent on this site way early on, but their podcast has taken off greatly, getting a bunch of industry people on their show and such.
Originally Posted by Nightwing
Stay focused, cause right now you have a decision to make. Are you a man perpetually looking back at what he’s lost, or a man looking forward, to what he might become?
-
Oh yeah Daz!
They changed to that Last Unicorn skull avatar years ago and I just always process them as a different newer user. No memory of what their previous avatar looked like but that's how it goes.
Also, on pure technicality, Captain Usopp. She doesn't post here anymore but I married her, so... I at least still see her around. She still reads the series every week and watches the anime. I don't even watch the anime every week.
Uh anyway. Elbaf! We finally made it!
-
Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.
-
So, since we are adopting this as the Elbaf thread...
10 Predictions for Elbaph
Here are some predictions for Elbaph. None of them have strong basis right now, so consider them more guesses than theories. No, I won't elaborate further:
1- There's a stowaway from Egghead.
Someone saved Luffy back in Egghead and their identity is still unknown. That person has hopped into the Great Erik when it landed and is either hidden there or has moved to hide in the Sunny since. That character will show up in Elbaph.
2- Elbaph's great tree is Adam.
Franky explained that the Adam Wood that the Sunny was made of came from the great tree, Adam, from a war-torn land. That is Elbaph. The giants may have their own name for it, but it's the same tree. Plus, the Sunny being of its wood will matter.
3- There's an underground/underwater level to Elbaph.
In mythology, there's an underground layer to the mythical Yggdrasil tree. I think this will also be in Elbaph, and that layer is home to monstrous giants and/or Wotan (half-giants fishmen instroduced in Davy Back Fight).
4- The Big Mom Pirates will return
The Big Mom Pirates' name is in the mud. Their territory is endangered. They need alliances, and they need to instill fear. I think they will come to Elbaph, led by Smoothie, and they'll side with Loki, perhaps even being the ones to free him.
5- Loki's forces
For now it appears Loki is alone. However, once he's free, several forces will align with him. The Big Mom Pirates will be one such group, as well as the monstrous giants and wotan from Elbaph's underground level. Perhaps even Rodo betrays Hajrudin for Loki. He's the warden of a giant detention unit, right? Loki's followers may be locked there.
6- Encounters
Elbaf will be an arc of encounters. We have the mysterious figure waiting for the crew (Gaban?), Jaguar D Saul, and likely Kid to meet.
7- The last adventure arc
I think Elbaph will be the last arc focused on exploration. Of course it will have revelations, lore and implications for the final saga, but a lot of events will be self-contained.
This may also be the last chance for a new crewmate. Just saying...
8- Godly lore
Elbaf may be when we learn about One Piece's gods. There may be more than one Sun God. Loki's DF may be a god zoan as well. And we may finally know if there are more ancient gods like it was hinted by the Shandians back in Norland's flashback.
9- The Buccaneer's true nature
It's very likely that we will learn the Buccaneers' special trait in Elbaf. However, I don't know how much that, and Kuma, will be central to the story.
10- A very long arc
I don't think Elbaph will be as long as Wano, but we may be headed for an arc with around 100 chapters. That means it may conclude in 3 or so years, close to Chapter 1230.
Bonus
Loki is the fabled eyepatch character set to appear near the end of One Piece. (I really like that possibility)
Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.
-
I like the Summit of the High West is atop the Yggdrasil Tree theory. Fits with the mythology of the tree. Forgot if this was already brought up in the 1130 chapter thread/spoiler thread or in the earlier discussions.
Originally Posted by Nightwing
Stay focused, cause right now you have a decision to make. Are you a man perpetually looking back at what he’s lost, or a man looking forward, to what he might become?
-
@Gizmo this has been suggested somewhere around here, yes, but is there any basis for it? I like the idea but I don’t remember any connection ever been suggested between High West and Elbaf in the story. The best I can think of is Dorry and Brogy knowing about sky islands as they showed no surprise to one being above Egghead.
Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.
-
@Robby
️ still lurking here.
Yeah I lived through the phenom wars so I should receive a medal.Here we are Elbaf.
-
Also just to follow up on the “High West” theory, just on a super high level based on what the more common beliefs are on how the maps and stuff work (North Blue is literally North etc. and the Grand Line/Red Line are NOT equators/Prime Meridians of the world), Elbaf is in the northwest region of the world at the minimum. Someone who’s been mapping the Grand Line more closely could probably pinpoint a more accurate location, but that also helps lend some credence to the theory.
At this point in the story, dunno if we’ll ever learn of another important “West” location where this path could be located, and we’re at the endgame of the story, so this also just seems like a convenient time to bring that point up again.
-
@Robby said in Think elbaf:
@Gizmo said in Think elbaf:
@Md-Martin kudos to everyone who has stuck around for so long. Not just the one piece fandom, but these forums, and thanks for those who have joined since.
March 2007 for me.
I think you, Ubiq, Greg, Wolfwood, and Satsuki are the only ones left that have been around longer. Was Kishido from that era?
At least a few of us still from 2007-early 2008 though. Nobodyman, Kitsune, Insider, Crossword, Darkstorm....
I was around then too, I was just under a different name Choperman
-
This is a smaller worry, but the fact that Yamato's cover story is still continuing worries me. I was expecting a reunion with the crew later on just like Jimbei did, but it seems like the cover story is no where near completion. I'm wondering how things will work out with that.
I've said this in the nakama thread before, but any crewmate that joins in the last arc is kind of cursed. You might as well not be a Strawhat at all, and no character deserves that.
-
@onemoment Yamato's cover story is very far from concluding. It has "only" 17 chapters so far, while the three last ones had at least double that:
- Decks of the World 1: 48
- Caribou: 46
- Jinbe: 28
- Decks of the World 2: 25
- Grand Fleet: 46
- Capone: 37
- Germa: 33
So far, the Yamato story has just updated the status of the Wano cast. However, with the sword being stolen, it may now move on to something else.
I wouldn't hold my breath about Yamato joining, though. I feel that ship has sunk. He may get a crewmate status near the end of the story or something like that, but like you said that doesn't mean much. And we don't know where his cover story is going, it may actually take him further away from joining the crew.
-
@onemoment said in Think elbaf:
This is a smaller worry, but the fact that Yamato's cover story is still continuing worries me.
Cover stories have almost always run 30-40 segments, unless they're on an extremely specific timeline like the Strawhat seperation. Wapol's was the shortest at 23, and the next shortest was Jinbe at 28.
Yamato is only on 17, there was no real reason to expect the cover story to be done for months yet.
Jinbe's cover story ended in 785. I don't know the exact chapter he reappeared in Big Mom's story, but Cakeland didn't start until 825 a year later.
Yamato not going along pretty much always doomed being along for most of the adventure, which is why people were so annoyed by it. Official crewmate or not they're at best going to join just in time for Laugh Tale and nothing else... or basically going to just be an epilogue asterisk that joins AFTER all the big important stuff is done and has missed the biggest most important adventure.
All that said, the previous story managed to intersect with the main story in real-time as Blackbeard's group invaded so Oda is changing things up... so who knows?
-
Does Blackbeard have any crewmate capable of swimming? How would he retrieve Pluton from the underground. Seems like the only way to do it is asking Zuneisha to destroy the walls of Wano and “opening it’s borders”. Since that was Oden’s dream is seems more likely that Luffy and Momo will do it, not a character like BB.
-
Damn, OP thought it was on the GL. I thought it was in the Calm Belt.
-
@onemoment said in Think elbaf:
This is a smaller worry, but the fact that Yamato's cover story is still continuing worries me. I was expecting a reunion with the crew later on just like Jimbei did, but it seems like the cover story is no where near completion. I'm wondering how things will work out with that.
I've said this in the nakama thread before, but any crewmate that joins in the last arc is kind of cursed. You might as well not be a Strawhat at all, and no character deserves that.
Well assuming this will be the main Elbaf thread,
I’ll go along with it.Anyways, can’t disagree any harder with that than I’ve already have, and if I’m the only one who thinks this, then so be it.
It’s pretty evident that the big reason Oda is having Yamato in Wano is because of Blackbeard, given how Caribou is close to telling him about Pluton. Given that, unless Oda plans to drop Luffy vs. Blackbeard, then it would be clear Yamato is meant to be a first line of defense before Luffy comes back, leading into Straw Hats vs. Blackbeard Pirates. I’ve no doubt that would give Yamato more to work with as a character given how involved this would all be, especially in the event Blackbeard makes off with Pluton and Yamato feels responsible to go after him.
If the worry about someone not feeling like a “true Straw Hat” is still prevalent in your mind, then clearly you’re worrying about more than Oda, because evidently Oda still cares about the character of Yamato enough to give her a cover story and presumably a role in holding off Blackbeard in the aftermath of Caribou’s info leak. In any case, I think it’s fair to say that Yamato’s role in the story is becoming more clear at this point.
-
@Robby said in Think elbaf:
@onemoment said in Think elbaf:
This is a smaller worry, but the fact that Yamato's cover story is still continuing worries me.
Cover stories have almost always run 30-40 segments, unless they're on an extremely specific timeline like the Strawhat seperation. Wapol's was the shortest at 23, and the next shortest was Jinbe at 28.
Yamato is only on 17, there was no real reason to expect the cover story to be done for months yet.
Jinbe's cover story ended in 785. I don't know the exact chapter he reappeared in Big Mom's story, but Cakeland didn't start until 825 a year later.
Yamato not going along pretty much always doomed being along for most of the adventure, which is why people were so annoyed by it. Official crewmate or not they're at best going to join just in time for Laugh Tale and nothing else... or basically going to just be an epilogue asterisk that joins AFTER all the big important stuff is done and has missed the biggest most important adventure.
All that said, the previous story managed to intersect with the main story in real-time as Blackbeard's group invaded so Oda is changing things up... so who knows?
So can we assume Vivi won’t come back until Laugh take then?
Sure, she was there for Little Garden, Drum Island, and even put an X message in the newspaper, but if what you said can be held against Yamato, then can it not be held against Vivi too?
Vivi hasn’t interacted with about half of the crew and wasn’t there for Skypiea, Enies Lobby, Sabaody, Fish-Man Island, Dressrosa, and Wano either. That’s still a very large party of the story Vivi has missed out on with the crew no matter how one looks at it.
So basically, what I’m saying is, if people are allowed
To hold out on the hope of Vivi reuniting for further Straw Hat adventures, then others can be allowed to do the same for Yamato. One cannot criticize the circumstances of one without criticizing the other even if both have some differences, as both got left behind by Luffy at the end of the day, and knowing Oda, he’s for sure not done with them. -
@electricmastro said in Think elbaf:
Sure, she was there for Little Garden, Drum Island, and even out an X message in the newspaper, but if what you said can be held against Yamato, then can it not be held against Vivi too?
Vivi hasn’t interacted with about half of the crew and wasn’t there for Skypiea, Enies Lobby, Sabaody, Fish-Man Island, Dressrosa, and Wano either. That’s still a very large party of the story Vivi has missed out on with the crew no matter how one looks at it.Why, yes of course. We know she will be back eventually because of the Reverie and her family has a history with Imu; but in my perspective as a reader? She has not interacted with the crew for over twenty years, so she is a Straw Hat in name only. Mind you, she has been not-a-Straw-Hat far longer than Yamato, this seniority has got to count for something.
Depending on what Oda wants to do with the hidden message Vivi might be back for Raftel (with what purpose though?), unless she shows up in Elbaf as a WEJ reporter. But more likely she will only play a part in the final war saga: not too different from Yamato. Long story short I would say both will come back to the story, but if we accept that Elbaf is going to be the last arc with a classic structure, I doubt they will make it in time for a full-blown adventure.
-
@Seafarer33 said in Think elbaf:
@electricmastro said in Think elbaf:
Sure, she was there for Little Garden, Drum Island, and even out an X message in the newspaper, but if what you said can be held against Yamato, then can it not be held against Vivi too?
Vivi hasn’t interacted with about half of the crew and wasn’t there for Skypiea, Enies Lobby, Sabaody, Fish-Man Island, Dressrosa, and Wano either. That’s still a very large party of the story Vivi has missed out on with the crew no matter how one looks at it.Why, yes of course. We know she will be back eventually because of the Reverie and her family has a history with Imu; but in my perspective as a reader? She has not interacted with the crew for over twenty years, so she is a Straw Hat in name only. Mind you, she has been not-a-Straw-Hat far longer than Yamato, this seniority has got to count for something.
Depending on what Oda wants to do with the hidden message Vivi might be back for Raftel (with what purpose though?), unless she shows up in Elbaf as a WEJ reporter. But more likely she will only play a part in the final war saga: not too different from Yamato. Long story short I would say both will come back to the story, but if we accept that Elbaf is going to be the last arc with a classic structure, I doubt they will make it in time for a full-blown adventure.
A seniority that, once again, had her miss out on Skypiea, Enies Lobby, Thriller Bark, Sabaody, Fish-Man Island, Dressrosa, and Wano.
And I guess I don't accept Elbaf as the last "classic adventure arc", whatever that even really means. In fact, who's to say the final war won't start during this arc? After what Vegapunk said and what Caribou is doing?
-
@electricmastro said in Think elbaf:
So can we assume Vivi won’t come back until Laugh take then?
Well that's pretty set in stone now, isn't it? She's clearly not going to show up in Elbaf since they need time to decipher the message.
So, barring any more surprise islands or maybe a "meet the revolutionaries interlude"...
At best they'll meet up right before Laugh Tale, but "during the mess of the final war" seems more likely, however that craziness shakes out.
So basically, what I’m saying is, if people are allowed
To hold out on the hope of Vivi reuniting for further Straw Hat adventures, then others can be allowed to do the same for Yamato. One cannot criticize the circumstances of one without criticizing the other even if both have some differences, as both got left behind by Luffy at the end of the day, and knowing Oda, he’s for sure not done with them.
"More adventures" doesn't mean squat if we the audience don't get to see them and they're just big war stuff and post-series epilogue with a dozen other characters.
We want time to see the bonding and jokes and interacting with the entire crew, Get that official number, appear in all future color spreads, merchandise, movies and spinoffs, and a bronze statue set up in a park in Japan somewhere.
Every arc they don't rejoin is another year we don't get to spend with them. And as far into the endgame as we are, there aren't a lot left.
Even Jinbe barely feels like a real crew member since he just joined for the faighto-faighto portion of Wano and didn't do a whole lot during Egghead. He had some time to interact during the big mom arc but I don't think he's really had alone time with anyone in the crew except sort of with Zoro while dealing with Lucchi?
The difference with Vivi is she's had 24 years in the background reminding us she exists. We've gotten time with her even if not fully with the crew.
-
@Robby said in Think elbaf:
@electricmastro said in Think elbaf:
Even Jinbe barely feels like a real crew member since he just joined for the faighto-faighto portion of Wano and didn't do a whole lot during Egghead. He had some time to interact during the big mom arc but I don't think he's really had alone time with anyone in the crew except sort of with Zoro while dealing with Lucchi?
Another extremely hard disagree there then.
Jinbe has earned my recognition of being a crewmate just as much as the others have. The time difference is irrelevant to me.
And it’s further evident to me how irrelevant it is since in the scene where Luffy tearfully remembers his crew after Ace died, I recognized Brook as just as much of a Straw Hat as Zoro is, even though Zoro was with Luffy much longer than Brook was.
So if people won’t recognize Brook, Jinbe, Yamato, or Vivi as Straw Hats because they weren’t there for as long as Zoro was, then that will be on them, not on me.
-
I feel like you're completely misunderstanding the point being made and I don't know how to clarify it.
It's not about recognition, or which adventures have been missed, because obviously the later members will always have missed some earlier milestone. (Otherwise Zoro missed out on Gaimon's Island but Usopp didn't, but only in the anime.)
Everyone accepts that Brook, Jinbei, and yes Vivi, are part of the crew.
The problem is we haven't seen them DO anything with the crew. Yamato only spent 2? chapters with them, (when he could have been interacting with them the entire battle) and Vivi's never even met half of them. We haven't spent time with them, we haven't seen them having downtime with the crew or their gimmicks or power sets playing off one another. We haven't seen them eating together or playing jokes or doing laundry or working on the ship or making art projects or doing battle team ups, and that's the stuff that was super endearing about the crew originally that Oda's largely sidelined since the timeskip.
And the longer they're separated, the less time we have.
(To say nothing of the fact that a huge huge chunk of Brook's backstory is still missing 17 years later! And we still don't know where Jinbe got his unique lighting scar or when and why he mellowed out.)
If someone joins the crew, and we never see anything from it, what does it matter? There's an entire strawhat fleet that any side character we want can be included in, and will likely cause them to show up in the final battle. We don't care about their official designation in the wiki, we want more of the character, with the other characters.
-
Same reason I wasn’t happy with Quicksilver dying in his first movie or Captain Marvel being too powerful so that she could only appear at the very end of Endgame because there would be no threat if she was there the entire time, in the MCU
It stopped them from being a part of the team, and the best part about being on a super hero team is the actual interactions with the other group members, the jokes, the friendships, the little moments they get to in between fights where they interact
That’s the best part of being on the Straw Hats too, Odas dropping the ball hard by not having the final member join already
-
As I put above in my 10 predictions, I think Elbaf is the last "adventure" arc and may be the last chance for anyone to join for real.
-
@Robby said in Think elbaf:
I feel like you're completely misunderstanding the point being made and I don't know how to clarify it.
It's not about recognition, or which adventures have been missed, because obviously the later members will always have missed some earlier milestone. (Otherwise Zoro missed out on Gaimon's Island but Usopp didn't, but only in the anime.)
Everyone accepts that Brook, Jinbei, and yes Vivi, are part of the crew.
The problem is we haven't seen them DO anything with the crew. Yamato only spent 2? chapters with them, (when he could have been interacting with them the entire battle) and Vivi's never even met half of them. We haven't spent time with them, we haven't seen them having downtime with the crew or their gimmicks or power sets playing off one another. We haven't seen them eating together or playing jokes or doing laundry or working on the ship or making art projects or doing battle team ups, and that's the stuff that was super endearing about the crew originally that Oda's largely sidelined since the timeskip.
And the longer they're separated, the less time we have.
(To say nothing of the fact that a huge huge chunk of Brook's backstory is still missing 17 years later! And we still don't know where Jinbe got his unique lighting scar or when and why he mellowed out.)
If someone joins the crew, and we never see anything from it, what does it matter? There's an entire strawhat fleet that any side character we want can be included in, and will likely cause them to show up in the final battle. We don't care about their official designation in the wiki, we want more of the character, with the other characters.
Seems that you and other like-minded folks are far more demanding than me when it comes to crewmates then.
To me, being a crewmate is someone who’s in-sync in being willing and ready to back-up Luffy in his journey and have mutual liking towards each other even after discovering more about each other.
That’s all it takes for me and I’m content. We for example haven’t seen Jinbe do more things with the crew like working on the ship or washing his fish-men undies, but that’s not a problem for me.
-
@Shiebs said in Think elbaf:
Same reason I wasn’t happy with Quicksilver dying in his first movie or Captain Marvel being too powerful so that she could only appear at the very end of Endgame because there would be no threat if she was there the entire time, in the MCU
It stopped them from being a part of the team, and the best part about being on a super hero team is the actual interactions with the other group members, the jokes, the friendships, the little moments they get to in between fights where they interact
That’s the best part of being on the Straw Hats too, Odas dropping the ball hard by not having the final member join already
Teams aren’t based on time or inconsequential moments, but the effort you put in to support each other.
Example: Bon Clay has spent far less time with Luffy than Jinbe. Yet he, as far as I’m concerned, is regarded as someone worthy of being a crewmate just the same, due to his willingness to not only befriend Luffy, but also reinforce that by putting in the effort to help him even at the most dire of times.
Having fun moments between friends is nice, but when it comes to having worth as part of a team, it’s the dedication and effort that truly counts.
-
Yamato had me waver on this point for a while there, but I have been feeling for a long time that there are no Intentions on Oda's part to actually add another member to the crew, aside from epilogue stuff, perhaps. It just feels too late in the story to introduce yet another main characters and make them believably bond with the crew to the extent the other Strawhats have on their long journey. Oda must realize that himself and if he truly wanted to, he could have added a new member in Punk Hazard, or Dressrosa, or Zou, or any of the Post-TS arcs, really. I think he still likes playing with the fanbase a bit, because he knows they love to speculate on who might next join the crew, which is why we get characters like Carrot or Yamato from time to time.
Overall, I think you could say that Pre-TS OP was fundamentally about forming a crew, while Post-TS OP is about actually becoming a big name pirate and finding the One Piece, and everything that comes with that - building alliances with other pirate crews, forming a Grand Fleet, finding the Road Porneglyphs etc.
But all of the characters added to the crew as actual long-term main characters and official Strawhat pirates were introduced pre-TS, even Jinbe.
-
This thread is getting too much focus into Next Crewmate discussion, there's another thread meant for that.
-
This post is deleted!
-
@Robby said in Think elbaf:
@Gizmo said in Think elbaf:
@Md-Martin kudos to everyone who has stuck around for so long. Not just the one piece fandom, but these forums, and thanks for those who have joined since.
March 2007 for me.
I think you, Ubiq, Greg, Wolfwood, and Satsuki are the only ones left that have been around longer. Was Kishido from that era?
At least a few of us still from 2007-early 2008 though. Nobodyman, Kitsune, Insider, Crossword, Darkstorm....
nope, wrong. It’s just I mostly read and rarely post
.And even then, I was a long time reader before needed to create an account.
Elbaf!!! Here we are.
Edit : I remember waiting more for Stephen translations to dream theories more than SBS somehow
️. -
@electricmastro that's called a follower (a straw hat fleet member) and not a crew mate.
Characters need to have distinct personalities that gel off well and work well with other main cast in order to entertain the audience.The Jinbei problem has always been that he was only close to Luffy. Even in WCI, he barely spent meaningful time with the crew. Granted, he had a panel or two with Robin in Wano but that's really all we got to work with here. Even when he was with Luffy/Chopper in Egghead, he didn't interact much with Chopper either.
This is a huge contrast to pre-time skip where you had Nami/Usopp duo as early as Syrup. Zoro/Chopper big-brother dynamic, Sanji/Usopp dynamic and Robin/Chopper dynamic and while lacking, Franky/Usopp engineering dynamic. You can argue that it is because we had more time and the crew was smaller and the adventures weren't as grand so we didn't have godzillion characters but let me bring you to our character Brook.
Brook connected to Luffy. And then had a relevant mutual connection with the rest of EB crew with Laboon. And then he had a connection with Zoro (mutual respect). And guess what Oda did for the crewmates that didn't interact with Laboon? He intentionally had Brook interact with Franky/Robin to flesh out his character (Franky accepts him then.) Brook also played a part in the team effort to take down Oars.
Contrast that with Jinbei and while you can say that he did apologize to Nami and there's a moment there, it didn't felt as interpersonal nor did it felt like it was a way to connect and form a bond with Nami.
There were many times where there was an opportunity for Jinbei to generate some chemistry and entertaining dynamics with the crewmates in WCI/Wano and while they did happen, it wasn't as impressionable as characters like Brook and Franky. Jinbei's impact on the crew/audience is because of how mightily a warlord he was, how he helped luffy but none of that has anything to do with actual relationships with the crew.
It's one that felt more entirely out of respect than one that is familial/friendship. But the straw hats are a family and a tightly knitted group of friends, and the respect they have for each other is not that kind of respect.
This is also a problem with Franky that is noticeable at times, by the way. He doesn't seem to gel well with Nami at all, for one. And you can feel that to a lesser extent with Zoro. The complains about how him and Luffy barely shared any lines post timeskip is also a valid one. But Franky actually had to work together with all of the crew and proved himself to be a lovable crew member (remember he was hated at first). Same with Brook. Jinbei proved himself as a valuable ally to Luffy and the straw hats but in terms of character dynamics, chemistry and meaningful moments, he was never written to prove that he fit well with the crew.
Someone else can put this better in words but Jinbei also felt like he joined because the story told me he had to (powerscaling/world building/etc) but rather than me organically accepting that he is a jigsaw puzzle piece that fits in with the rest of the crew.
There's also a whole bundle of other reasons like how un-quirky Jinbei is and that his only quirk was his face-expressions that can feel forced (compare that to everyone else and you can see just how non-gag he is as a character), his dream never really felt like his, his backstory never felt like his either and wasn't that strong, him being a seasoned veteran being a huge contrast to the personality/narrative stance of the straw hats (explorers, going at it bright-eyedly, youth-like energy) and while you can argue that Franky and Brook is old they still display traits that make them childish and fun. Robin was supposed to be that little dose of maturity and that felt enough which makes you wonder why we need Jinbei to bring that aspect of him to the table (and even his cynicalism/cold-logical thinking is now being shared by Zoro). Guess who has gotten the same facial expression=funny quirk as Jinbei and is also a mature character? Robin. But it works for robin because we knew how dark her past is and how reserved she was as a character so she had to grow into the dorkier side of hers. You can't say the same for Jinbei (which has his only gag trait shared by Robin). And Robin's also more personal because we know that the straw hats feel the same way about her opening up because we've seen how she is a big sister to Nami, a caretaker to Chopper and a supportive almost-mother like figure to Luffy. So when we see it, we relate to the straw hats seeing that change.
The obvious reason is that he's really just there because the straw hats are "not a rookie crew anymore" and needs to be a legitimate threat which is fine but it doesn't necessarily makes me comfortable with it because the underdog story/a bunch of unknowns shaking up the world is a lot more fun. Jinbei kind of undermines that a little despite all of us knowing that Sanji and Zoro is/will get stronger than him but the reputation of "we started from here, look at where we are" now feels like "ok one of us didn't started from the bottom, took a career break, and uh, is really well established and knowledgable and is a powerhouse, was never seen as a rookie and is already reputable and has now..uh, become more reputable or something".
It's not terrible or anything and has its pros and cons. The cons just really, really bothers me on some days.
-
@zeltrax225 You remind me of all the reasons I thought Jinbe wouldn't join back then. He felt so bland, and still feels that way.
(But really, we should only continue this discussion in the proper thread. ANd please someone also warn electricmastro to reply there, because he's blocking me so he's not seeing this)
-
@zeltrax225 said in Think elbaf:
@electricmastro that's called a follower (a straw hat fleet member) and not a crew mate.
Characters need to have distinct personalities that gel off well and work well with other main cast in order to entertain the audience.The Jinbei problem has always been that he was only close to Luffy. Even in WCI, he barely spent meaningful time with the crew. Granted, he had a panel or two with Robin in Wano but that's really all we got to work with here. Even when he was with Luffy/Chopper in Egghead, he didn't interact much with Chopper either.
This is a huge contrast to pre-time skip where you had Nami/Usopp duo as early as Syrup. Zoro/Chopper big-brother dynamic, Sanji/Usopp dynamic and Robin/Chopper dynamic and while lacking, Franky/Usopp engineering dynamic. You can argue that it is because we had more time and the crew was smaller and the adventures weren't as grand so we didn't have godzillion characters but let me bring you to our character Brook.
Brook connected to Luffy. And then had a relevant mutual connection with the rest of EB crew with Laboon. And then he had a connection with Zoro (mutual respect). And guess what Oda did for the crewmates that didn't interact with Laboon? He intentionally had Brook interact with Franky/Robin to flesh out his character (Franky accepts him then.) Brook also played a part in the team effort to take down Oars.
Contrast that with Jinbei and while you can say that he did apologize to Nami and there's a moment there, it didn't felt as interpersonal nor did it felt like it was a way to connect and form a bond with Nami.
There were many times where there was an opportunity for Jinbei to generate some chemistry and entertaining dynamics with the crewmates in WCI/Wano and while they did happen, it wasn't as impressionable as characters like Brook and Franky. Jinbei's impact on the crew/audience is because of how mightily a warlord he was, how he helped luffy but none of that has anything to do with actual relationships with the crew.
It's one that felt more entirely out of respect than one that is familial/friendship. But the straw hats are a family and a tightly knitted group of friends, and the respect they have for each other is not that kind of respect.
This is also a problem with Franky that is noticeable at times, by the way. He doesn't seem to gel well with Nami at all, for one. And you can feel that to a lesser extent with Zoro. The complains about how him and Luffy barely shared any lines post timeskip is also a valid one. But Franky actually had to work together with all of the crew and proved himself to be a lovable crew member (remember he was hated at first). Same with Brook. Jinbei proved himself as a valuable ally to Luffy and the straw hats but in terms of character dynamics, chemistry and meaningful moments, he was never written to prove that he fit well with the crew.
Someone else can put this better in words but Jinbei also felt like he joined because the story told me he had to (powerscaling/world building/etc) but rather than me organically accepting that he is a jigsaw puzzle piece that fits in with the rest of the crew.
There's also a whole bundle of other reasons like how un-quirky Jinbei is and that his only quirk was his face-expressions that can feel forced (compare that to everyone else and you can see just how non-gag he is as a character), his dream never really felt like his, his backstory never felt like his either and wasn't that strong, him being a seasoned veteran being a huge contrast to the personality/narrative stance of the straw hats (explorers, going at it bright-eyedly, youth-like energy) and while you can argue that Franky and Brook is old they still display traits that make them childish and fun. Robin was supposed to be that little dose of maturity and that felt enough which makes you wonder why we need Jinbei to bring that aspect of him to the table (and even his cynicalism/cold-logical thinking is now being shared by Zoro). Guess who has gotten the same facial expression=funny quirk as Jinbei and is also a mature character? Robin. But it works for robin because we knew how dark her past is and how reserved she was as a character so she had to grow into the dorkier side of hers. You can't say the same for Jinbei (which has his only gag trait shared by Robin). And Robin's also more personal because we know that the straw hats feel the same way about her opening up because we've seen how she is a big sister to Nami, a caretaker to Chopper and a supportive almost-mother like figure to Luffy. So when we see it, we relate to the straw hats seeing that change.
The obvious reason is that he's really just there because the straw hats are "not a rookie crew anymore" and needs to be a legitimate threat which is fine but it doesn't necessarily makes me comfortable with it because the underdog story/a bunch of unknowns shaking up the world is a lot more fun. Jinbei kind of undermines that a little despite all of us knowing that Sanji and Zoro is/will get stronger than him but the reputation of "we started from here, look at where we are" now feels like "ok one of us didn't started from the bottom, took a career break, and uh, is really well established and knowledgable and is a powerhouse, was never seen as a rookie and is already reputable and has now..uh, become more reputable or something".
It's not terrible or anything and has its pros and cons. The cons just really, really bothers me on some days.
I hear you. I’m still looking forward to Yamato joining and hanging out with the crew though, because so far has convinced me that it will be impossible for that to happen, not even time. Same could prob be said for Vivi and Lilith.
