it's a possibility that Shanks and Buggy might be under one of the Emperors before…... but that would mean that Shanks replaced one of the Emperors......
Chapter 432 "Jack in the Box" Discussion
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@CC:
cool thanks!
and pandaman is there as well!!!
in the 15th page middle panel!Well I would have never seen him if you didn't point it out. :blink:
This chapter was really funny makes me happy to have come back to reading One Piece again.
I for one was a bit surprised over the whole "Daddy Dragon" thing only because I seriously forgot about Dragon. :happy: Sometimes I love those in between arc chapters the most. Now bring in some Buggy time!Am I the only one who thought Coby looked a lot like Locke from the back?
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Ever since Jaya, I've always had a feeling that maybe Shanks and Buggy knew Whitebeard because he controlled that ship that they were apprentice pirates on. Buggy did know how Whitebeard felt about subordinates leaving, so I thought that Whitebeard does't like Shanks that much because of him leaving his service. I wonder if this theory is still works with this emperor stuff.
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I think Oda's gone a bit mad. What next? Mihawk turning out to be Nami's long-lost daughter?
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Well, I liked the chapter, except the Dragon being Ruffy´s father thing. That was really really really absolutely completely absurdly lame. But that´s just me I guess…
PS: And I´m not the kind of person that critcize OP often. Actually, I even defend Usopp a lot and am very patient and optimistic about obscure or polemic parts/facts in the story. But this one is the first time I see a let down in OPinion. Well, nothing can be perfect, even ODA, wich is still GOD... and I think that he really thought of Dragon as Ruffy´s father since his first aparition or even from the begining. It´s just that the development was not quite the one it should have been in order for this revelation to produce the right impression...
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I think Oda's gone a bit mad. What next? Mihawk turning out to be Nami's long-lost daughter?
nope. Nami turns out to be a D too! ;)
seriously though….. I think Oda originally already planned this whole family stuff from the beginning, just that he didn't elaborate on it..or something like that....
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I think Oda's gone a bit mad. What next? Mihawk turning out to be Nami's long-lost daughter?
Mihawk as Nami's daughter?
Haha.
If anyone is related to Nami in the grand scheme of things my money's on Shanks, but this isn't a who's your daddy thread now is it?
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Well, I liked the chapter, except the Dragon being Ruffy´s father thing. That was really really really absolutely completely absurdly lame. But that´s just me I guess…
No that's not just you. UR NOT ALONE BRUTHA
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No that's not just you. UR NOT ALONE BRUTHA
I'd have to say I agree as well. I just didn't say as much since Dragon is finally back into the storyline (sort of). I think it was too soon to introduce him as Luffy's father & quite a bit cliche. Not totally upset, but it does bother me a bit.
Nonetheless, best chapter since Robin's flashback. Hope this streak continues.
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So someone infamous turns out to be the main character's father and it's automatically Star Wars cliche? Personally, the only similarity I see is just that. An infamous person is the main character's father.
1. Luke had some idea about his father. He knew Anakin fought in the Clone Wars along side Obi Wan, and was told by Obi Wan that Anakin was killed by Vadar.
2. Vadar was a huge character in the series (the main villain), and had lots of interaction with Luke and co., killing Obi Wan in the process. So besides thinking Vadar killed his own father, Luke had even more reason to hate him. Luffy has no idea who Dragon is, and although it was a surprise to everyone else, he wasn't affected so much.
3. In Star Wars, Vadar came out and actually said "I am your father." Dragon has still only appeared once, and left after saying some mysterious babel. -
Meh.. As soon as i saw dragon I quickly knew he was related to luffy somehow.
On another note.Are we ever gonna see more revolutionaries? I would like to see more,Maybe they have their on unique style of fighting or techniques.Kinda like how the cp9 or the marines had their own qwn style/martial arts
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I assume Dragon has some subordinates with him at some point. I doubt he's completely alone is his revolutionary activities. I'd also think that Dragon would teach them some fighting abilities (but I may be quite wrong on this one).
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Yeah, it's called a revolutionary army.
He's not Vader, and he's not "Luffy + 5 years" like Yondaime is to Naruto. How is it really cliche and less impactful than Oda saying Luffy's father is Cabal D. Gary?
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Garp's methods of training Luffy remind me of Piccolo's methods of training Gohan.
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@Pass:
Garp's methods of training Luffy remind me of Piccolo's methods of training Gohan.
Tis the old "Leave em to fend for themselves" method. Basically survival training, works every time. Seen it in so many other mangas/comics, nonetheless a solid method of training.
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Yeah I don t understand the objections either
Why is it lame for Dragon to be Luffy s dad?
Did you want a new character? Did you want Luffy s parents to stay unknown just like probably his grandmother his other grandfather his mother his uncles and aunts will stay unknown?this whole thing was probably planned from the beginning by Oda so he ll know how to handle this.
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He's not Vader, and he's not "Luffy + 5 years" like Yondaime is to Naruto.
Given we still know nothing about him isn't it too soon to say he's not to Luffy what Yondaime is to Naruto?
And when you can compare something to what happens in Naruto, you can be damn sure it's cliche. In other news, cliche is the new most used word in AP following "character development" and "deus ex machina".
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I would definitely say that was a little more obvious than Dragon. And what is the cliche, mysterious fathers? Dragon appeared before Naruto began serialization, I doubt Oda would have changed the father because of Kishimoto. It doesn't happen all that often outside of those two, and personally I find presentation more important than guessing the identity anyway.
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Personally, I would've liked it to be a new character who wasn't known to be great. Dragon is the most wanted man in the world, and Luffy just happens to be his son. It kinda cheapens the experience for me as I expect a rag to riches story only to be told that Luffy descends from greatness. Kinda makes Luffy not feel like an underdog when he's the son of the most wanted man in the world.
The Naruto example was bad as a blind man could see Naruto & Yodaime are most likely father a & son. I'd say it was more along the lines of Yusuke turning out to be a demon all along. It was all good because Yusuke was a human holding his own against many power demons, only to find out he's only gotten this far because of his demon blood. As you can tell, I'm not very good at explaining things.
But again, It irks me that Dragon is Luffy's father & it's still cliche IMO. Anwyays I'm not gonna waste further time worrying about the fact anymore (even tho I still hate the Dragon/Luffy connection) because it's just my personal opinion. The loose threads are finally being tied up, so I'm just thankful that some parts of the story are finally getting some closure.
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Huh, you know, I never saw the Luffy/Dragon thing coming…cause I never really took the time to do the "detective work." So, it doesn't seem so obvious, in my case I was more concerned with the Whiskey Peak arc at that point.
Still, I like it. It adds a new twist to Luffy and Dragon meeting that's even bigger then all the other big fighteres that Luffy must meet. How do you fight your father, even when he's already this (most likely) powerful revolutionist? It's even better then Luffy fighting a shichibukai or admiral--at least with those Luffy just has to worry about power.
And it's not a Star Wars rip off. Quit whining about that, Stars Wars did it completely different. Notice that Luffy still has his hand.
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Huh, you know, I never saw the Luffy/Dragon thing coming…cause I never really took the time to do the "detective work." So, it doesn't seem so obvious, in my case I was more concerned with the Whiskey Peak arc at that point.
Still, I like it. It adds a new twist to Luffy and Dragon meeting that's even bigger then shichibukai. How do you fight your father, even when he's already this (most likely) powerful revolutionist? It's even better then Luffy fighting a shichibukai or admiral--at least with those Luffy just has to worry about power.
And it's not a Star Wars rip off. Quit whining about that, Stars Wars did it completely different. Notice that Luffy still has his hand.
You may have me confused with someone else as I never compared One Piece to Star Wars in any of my posts, also I never whined. I'll leave it alone because you may be just talking about complainer in general, not just me. I still think it's an unexpected cliche, meaning i didn't expect Dragon to be Luffy's father, but when I found out, it was cliche because it made Luffy only seem powerful because he was the son of greatness. I also think Luffy lost his underdog status when he became the son of the most wanted man in the world. Like I said tho, I don't care all that much but it irks me a bit. I shall say no more of it because it seems opinions are not welcome even if they are the least bit negative.
Anyways, I wonder what Oda's gonna pull out his hat next chapter. It definitely gonna get even better next chapter.
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You may have me confused with someone else as I never compared One Piece to Star Wars in any of my posts, also I never whined. I'll leave it alone because you may be just talking about complainer in general, not just me. I still think it's an unexpected cliche, meaning i didn't expect Dragon to be Luffy's father, but when I found out, it was cliche because it made Luffy only seem powerful because he was the son of greatness. I also think Luffy lost his underdog status when he became the son of the most wanted man in the world. Like I said tho, I don't care all that much but it irks me a bit. I shall say no more of it because it seems opinions are not welcome even if they are the least bit negative.
Anyways, I wonder what Oda's gonna pull out his hat next chapter. It definitely gonna get even better next chapter.
Yes, I was talking about a lot of people in general, far from just you.
And you have a point, but is Luffy really a son oof greatness? We don't know how strong Dragon is compared to other people on the Grandline. Plus, Luffy and Dragon may most likely have two completely different fighting styles–paramecia and alleged logai. Inthat way, I don't see Luffy's strength as genetic.
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Yes, I was talking about a lot of people in general, far from just you.
And you have a point, but is Luffy really a son oof greatness? We don't know how strong Dragon is compared to other people on the Grandline. Plus, Luffy and Dragon may most likely have two completely different fighting styles–paramecia and alleged logai. Inthat way, I don't see Luffy's strength as genetic.
I'm hoping you are right. I'll try to wait and see what develops on this Dragon/Luffy connection cause now it seems like, "Luffy the son of the legendary Dragon, who is destined to be great as well.". Maybe we'll get more next chapter, so I'll hold my opinions until something comes up.
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Personally, I would've liked it to be a new character who wasn't known to be great. Dragon is the most wanted man in the world, and Luffy just happens to be his son. It kinda cheapens the experience for me as I expect a rag to riches story only to be told that Luffy descends from greatness. Kinda makes Luffy not feel like an underdog when he's the son of the most wanted man in the world.
The Naruto example was bad as a blind man could see Naruto & Yodaime are most likely father a & son. I'd say it was more along the lines of Yusuke turning out to be a demon all along. It was all good because Yusuke was a human holding his own against many power demons, only to find out he's only gotten this far because of his demon blood. As you can tell, I'm not very good at explaining things.
Just because "greatness" runs in the family, it doesn't mean that Luffy's accomplishments are cheapened in any way. There wasn't any point where Luffy relied on some mystical power hidden in his blood to pull off any of his great feats.
About Yusuke, you're also wrong to think he only got that far thanks to demon blood. If you look back at what is said when it's revealed that Yusuke has demon blood, you'll find out that the demon powers weren't activated until he died for the second time. Everything he did up to that point was thanks to his training.
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I'd have to say I agree as well. I just didn't say as much since Dragon is finally back into the storyline (sort of). I think it was too soon to introduce him as Luffy's father & quite a bit cliche. Not totally upset, but it does bother me a bit.
Frankly, I'm not sure why people are so incensed about Dragon and not about Coby using Soru; it's not like Dragon was this out-of-nowhere kickarse mysterious demon from heck, he was this strange cool-looking guy making prophecies and, through rumour, we've heard he's been causing mischief all around the planet.
This isn't even in the same league as finding out Vader is Luke's father, since we know nothing of Dragon and likely a lot of what we do know is exaggerated; that is, I know he's strong, but he's not going to be some super martial artist who can beat up Garp + Luffy.
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In honor of Monkey "Two Knuckles" Garp -
I redid my Marine rankings on the cover page as part of the script. I did slightly more research this time around (and it helps that Wikipedia exists in the 2k6) and settled on: (US) Naval ranks for the commissioned officers, and mostly Marine Corps for the lower ranks. In the latter case, I ditched the naval ranks not because of any issue of realism or "which most closely corresponds to real life military" but because the Naval enlisted ranks are a goddamn mess linguistically speaking, and the more neutral Marine Corps ranks are much easier on the eyes and ears to a translator trying to make things sound "nice." In any case, it's mostly the same as I had it before with just a few alterations, and I am now OFFICIALLY never discussing this subject again.
http://www.mangascreener.com/stephen/onepiece/jchapters.html
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Frankly, I'm not sure why people are so incensed about Dragon and not about Coby using Soru; it's not like Dragon was this out-of-nowhere kickarse mysterious demon from heck, he was this strange cool-looking guy making prophecies and, through rumour, we've heard he's been causing mischief all around the planet.
This isn't even in the same league as finding out Vader is Luke's father, since we know nothing of Dragon and likely a lot of what we do know is exaggerated; that is, I know he's strong, but he's not going to be some super martial artist who can beat up Garp + Luffy.
I don't care about Coby because he was training under Garp so it sorta of makes since (afterall, we still don't know how much time has passed). Also, again, I never compared anything in One Piece to Star Wars (I personally hate Star Wars). Also, we don't really know everything about Dragon's true fighting prowess, so who's to say he could or couldn't beat Garp & Luffy at the same time, he just might be able to. Again, I will save my further opinions until I have something more solid to work with.
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Haven't we known Luffy was a descendant of something/someone great when we learned about D though?
People of D have always been like Luffy. They are always shown as powerful fighters with wills of steel and lofty dreams. So why are people complaining when we learn that Luffy's father is a powerful D? I don't understand.
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Now I just hope DoFlamingo doesn't wear these fancy sunglasses to hide curly eyebrows.
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Frankly, I'm not sure why people are so incensed about Dragon and not about Coby using Soru; it's not like Dragon was this out-of-nowhere kickarse mysterious demon from heck, he was this strange cool-looking guy making prophecies and, through rumour, we've heard he's been causing mischief all around the planet.
This isn't even in the same league as finding out Vader is Luke's father, since we know nothing of Dragon and likely a lot of what we do know is exaggerated; that is, I know he's strong, but he's not going to be some super martial artist who can beat up Garp + Luffy.
**Agreed.
Though he can most likley whoop Luffy with his hands in his ass, I don't see him taking down Garp. Not easily at least.**
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In honor of Monkey "Two Knuckles" Garp -
I redid my Marine rankings on the cover page as part of the script. I did slightly more research this time around (and it helps that Wikipedia exists in the 2k6) and settled on: (US) Naval ranks for the commissioned officers, and mostly Marine Corps for the lower ranks. In the latter case, I ditched the naval ranks not because of any issue of realism or "which most closely corresponds to real life military" but because the Naval enlisted ranks are a goddamn mess linguistically speaking, and the more neutral Marine Corps ranks are much easier on the eyes and ears to a translator trying to make things sound "nice." In any case, it's mostly the same as I had it before with just a few alterations, and I am now OFFICIALLY never discussing this subject again.
http://www.mangascreener.com/stephen/onepiece/jchapters.html
Hah, well thanks, for that and the chapter. I'm no expert on ranks in anything, but I really like the way it all sounds now so I'm cool.
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Thanks for the clarification/chapter translation Stephen. See you on Pirate's Summit.
Zing!
Dragon being Luffy's father doesn't make One Piece any less good for a read/see. But I guess it's all subjective so arguing whether or not it was a good idea is a moot point. Although I guess arguing why or why not wouldn't be. Ah, whatever, I just hope he finally addresses Usopp's and Franky's status next week and continues Eneru/Enel/Ener/Anal's cover story, atleast show him tripping into the crater if nothing else.
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I'm hoping you are right. I'll try to wait and see what develops on this Dragon/Luffy connection cause now it seems like, "Luffy the son of the legendary Dragon, who is destined to be great as well.". Maybe we'll get more next chapter, so I'll hold my opinions until something comes up.
Actually, since Dragon is in the middle of a rebellion, he tecnnically hasn't done anything great yet. He's in the middle of doing something great. Besides, Luffy's out to do the greatest thing in the world right now–take One Piece. That's probably harder then overthrowing the world government--yes, even harder. That's the thing, Dragon and Luffy's goals are so different that I don't see heredity coming into play.
And no, it far from ruins the story. Also, about Dragon vs. Garp...I doubt Garp would lose. It's possible, but Garp is his father after all--he'll always have that edge. Unless Dragon is a rebel to the point of being mericiless to his parents.
It's kind of like Luffy and Garp right now, even if Luffy becomes 10 times stronger then Garp, I kind of doubt their relation ship will change. Luffy will most likely always see Garp as his grandpa who nearly killed him so many times. That's "the fist of love."
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Actually, since Dragon is in the middle of a rebellion, he tecnnically hasn't done anything great yet. He's in the middle of doing something great. Besides, Luffy's out to do the greatest thing in the world right now–take One Piece. That's probably harder then overthrowing the world government--yes, even harder. That's the thing, Dragon and Luffy's goals are so different that I don't see heredity coming into play.
And no, it far from ruins the story.
**I believe that getting One Piece = destroying the WG. But that's just my theory.
And yeah, heredity isn't involved in their strength.**
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Actually, now that I think about it, I take back what I said.
Oda's god, after all.
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I think the reason Luffy's parentage came as such a shock to me was that a). I wasn't expecting another familial revelation so soon after Garp, and b). I never really thought (or cared) about who Luffy's father/mother was. This chapter, in my opinion, really displays how overanalyzing a series can unintentionally retract from one's enjoyment of it as a whole.
I personally cannot wait to see what happens when (and if) Luffy and Dragon finally meet face to face. Will tensions be high? Will emotions run rampant? Will there be meat on a stick?
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Whatever. Dragon being Luffy's father is kind of cool, because now people will finally be afraid of him, even though he's a shrimpy little rubber geek in a straw hat and short pants.
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It also means that (assuming the knowledge of his parentage gets out) Luffy will now be the target of even more World Government toadies (even more so than before, I mean).
Although I do wonder about how many people know about Luffy's relation to Dragon (and Garp for that matter).
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@IT'S:
Whatever. Dragon being Luffy's father is kind of cool, because now people will finally be afraid of him, even though he's a shrimpy little rubber geek in a straw hat and short pants.
Ouch, you hurt Luffy's feelings.
To the other post, people overanalyze One Piece all the time, so it shouldn't be such a shock. I been telling people to try not to over analyze a certain series (who shall remain nameless) all the time because it's just a comic book. Overanalyzation does sometimes detract from the experience I agree, but it's life, we all do it sometimes (many intentionally overanalyze just because they hate something).
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What happened to Coby and Helmeppo?
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Has to be. Coby is about 2X his size, and Helmeppo is a head taller, both of them are MUCH stronger than before. That much time COULDN'T have passed.
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Has to be. Coby is about 2X his size, and Helmeppo is a head taller, both of them are MUCH stronger than before. That much time COULDN'T have passed.
Hyperbolic Time Chamber perhaps?
But seriously,That's the #1 thing I wanna know. Just how much time has passed during Luffy's adventures? Hopefully this question is answered soon.
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Not exactly, Sen Goku and Aokiji are not hte same rank. Neither are Tashigi and hina for that matter–when we last saw them both Smoker and Hina are captains.
Actually Malintex is right. Read it from right to left, top to bottom: Sengoku, Kuzan, Tsuru, Garp, Smoker, Saul, Tashigi, Hina, Fullbody, Jango, Coby, Helmeppo.
So now Tashigi is captain and Smoker is viceadmiral, they were promoted after Alabasta. In fact I thought that was the point of the cover, I'm surprised nobody is talking about it.
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I think it was too soon to introduce him as Luffy's father
That's funny, seeing how you wouldn't be able to measure the relative "soon-ness" of this information without some chapters ahead of it. It's a tricky situation really, but it all comes down to my faith in Oda [who knows how the story will unfold] over my faith in you [who's in the dark, just as much as I am]. The difference might be that my guide in the darkness isn't blind. =) Oda hasnt disappointed me before, so I trust him to know what he's doing.
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That's funny, seeing how you wouldn't be able to measure the relative "soon-ness" of this information without some chapters ahead of it.
I agree whole-heartedly, and I disagree with the post you're replying to. The last 100+ chapters dealt with a time period of less than 24 hours. It was about time for Oda to bring forth some earth-shattering story elements. The story has to advance at some point, if One Piece turned into naru-tard fillers just to allow for the story to never end and keep the happy go lucky B.S. feeling going, the story would go stale way too quickly.
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Actually Malintex is right. Read it from right to left, top to bottom: Sengoku, Kuzan, Tsuru, Garp, Smoker, Saul, Tashigi, Hina, Fullbody, Jango, Coby, Helmeppo.
So now Tashigi is captain and Smoker is viceadmiral, they were promoted after Alabasta. In fact I thought that was the point of the cover, I'm surprised nobody is talking about it.
The Marines of the OP world follow the British system of Naval/Marine rankings, so I do not think Smoker's a VA just yet; it's more likely he was promoted one rank to Commodore. Tashigi isn't even an officer; she's enlisted, which would mean Marine rankings apply to her. If she was a Master Sergeant, she's now a Sergeant Major.
In rare cases (like war) enlisted can become officers; my Grandfather was an enlisted Marine in WWII and he became an officer (I think he was a Captain, though I am not sure).
EDIT: Dang, Smoker's ahead of Saul! The same goes for Tashigi and Hina!Maybe they did jump two ranks? Yargh. o.O
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Have those ranks been translated then? The ranks were listed on hte cover right?
Cause otherwise, the point I'm trying to make is that they don't seem to be organized by rank.
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EDIT: Dang, Smoker's ahead of Saul! The same goes for Tashigi and Hina!Maybe they did jump two ranks? Yargh. o.O
For Tashigi to go from Sergeant Major (Her old rank) to Captain would, I believe, require seven ranks to be jumped, not two. For Smoker, going from Captain to Vice Admiral would mean a triple promotion.
Sure, that's all possible, but I'm going to have to say it's probably not organized by rank in any way.
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I can see Smoker becoming VA since it's probably his "natural" rank and the supposed victory over Crocodile would deserve a 3 ranks promotion, but Tashigi a captain? That's 7 ranks above her last one.
But I don't think this cover page means anything. Afterall Helmeppo and Coby are below Jango and Fullbody.
edit: well… beaten.