I would have had the chapter be all about the incident at Amazon Lily, including a scene of Marigold & Sandersonia versus Devon and Shot.
Chapter 1059: The Matter Involving Captain Koby
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@cavendishsama said in Chapter 1059: The Matter Involving Captain Koby:
The Wano Flashback, I would have much prefered it if we just got this before we left Wano, but well at least we got it. Yamato's reasoning is still a bit meh, better than the Oden-thing, which really didn't make sense but it's still meh. The reason they're not opening the borders and keeping Wano's defense up is to protect Wano, Dog and Cat are staying behind to protect Wano, Momo learning to control his DF is supposed to help protect Wano, the SH flag is supposed to protect Wano and Yamato is staying behind to protect Wano. It's not like it makes no sense, but definitely wouldn't call it satisfying.
Gonna def have to answer up to what to do with the borders, because it was Oden's ultimate dream to open them up, and now they'll have to content with the decision that they're basically denying Oden's dream being accomplished even though Oden fought for it.
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This was another truly great chapter full of really surprising character interactions and some big, intriguing lore developments. It's strange though, despite the curtains falling two chapters ago, most of these latest chapters has felt more like the post-battle global update and tying up of loose ends than it has the building up of an actual new arc. In my mind, the Wano saga already includes the Reverie as something as a prologue before the first curtain, so maybe the current chapters can be an epilogue after the final one.
(The apparent reintroduction of the crew for a jumping-in point in the last chapter is the one thing that doesn't totally fit this line of thinking, but that's what you get trying to break an ongoing story trying to balance appeal to longterm readers with accessibility for new ones - there aren't always clean breaks that make the starts and ends of arcs fully contained.)
I thought we were done talking about Yamato for a while, but once again I get what I want in the strangest way possible. First he doesn't join, but the justification is weak and the character arc non-existent. Now, we see the character arc, but it's wedged in awkwardly long after the fact. And that's a shame because in a vacuum, I really like the scene. Yamato choosing not to abandon Wano and wanting to put it ahead of his own desire to adventure is exactly the kind of acknowledgement of Oden's failings I've been hoping for. Like Momo waiting for the opportune moment to open the country instead of doing it right away, Yamato can honour his legacy and will without following his exact footsteps.
So I got what I wanted. And future rereads of Wano's endings are going to go down smoothing knowing what's coming. But I don't think the way Oda went about it has paid off. The shock value of the fakeout wasn't worth the awkward way he had to circle back to the real reasoning, at least in my mind. I wouldn't have done it this way, in any case.
Marco departing for Sphinx makes me feel like it's not the Strawhats' next destination. His goodbye to Luffy, passing on Ace's pride in him, has the vibe of an exit from the story, at least until the final battle.
Hancock's flashback here gave me actual Marineford vibes from the sheer chaos of the battle and the amount of big names we see going head to head and showing enormous feats of strength. Even more exciting is that the big names here are characters we know far more personally than most of the Marineford heavy hitters. I don't think anyone had a three-way battle between Hancock, Koby and Blackbeard on their One Piece bingo cards. It really is something else to see.
The Seraphim are a development I absolutely love. It feels like things that were hinted at for years are finally coming together. Bloodline element research, cloning, autonomous pirate-hunting androids with knock-off devil fruit powers, the gigantification of children, research on Lunarians, the power of the Seven Warlords - all these precedents set across so many shady scientist characters come together to make the Seraphim a logical extension of the existing plot.
And the questions that remain about how these things were set up are even more intriguing. When and how were the Warlords' bloodline elements collected? Was it done discretely or was it part of the signup? Are samples taken from prisoners in Impel Down as well. Because of Borsalino's laser, we know high level Navy guys aren't above making donations, so who else from that group was used? Is Blackbeard on file? We know Vegapunk was able to replicate Kaido's fruit from his bloodline elements, so presumably he would be able to see any of the Warlords' fruits in their genetics too, but does that mean he was able to replicate them as well? What are the limits on collecting bloodline elements from corpses? I think it would be smart to make them unable to clone Roger or Ace, for example, but maybe if Rocks' corpse had been preserved similar Oars', it could be a fun way to bring him into the story. Whatever Oda has planned, I'm completely on board for the ride.
It stands out to me that Blackbeard instantly recognises the Lunarian traits in the Seraphim. That's some pretty hush-hush stuff with big historical implications. What does he know?
And speaking of the Seraphim/Lunarian thing, hopefully they retain the tradeoff between durability and speed established in Zoro and King's fight. Despite all the time spent setting that aspect of the Lunarian race and having Zoro work it out, I didn't feel like it went anywhere at the time. But if it was laying the groundwork for future Seraphim battles, that's a lot more interesting.
As fun as his arrival is (and terrifying, with the conversation between Vasco and Devon), I do have to wonder about Blackbeard's actual plan. Hancock's fruit has the potential to be incredibly broken in the right hands, but did he really not know he doesn't have those? He could maybe give it to Maki or Tori, the girls he was hanging with in the first Wano intermission (given that the Vivre Card databook canonised them as members of the crew), they seem cute enough to get a little use out of it. Or maybe, given how easily Hancock would be able to take out two of his officers and so many others, he just wanted to take a powerful fruit out of the hands of any potential rivals. There's no shortage of next stops for someone who wants to take nigh-unstoppable fruits off the board. Too bad for Sugar in that case.
Rocky Port gets more and more interesting with each mention. We know Law "masterminded" it, but now we're hearing Blackbeard was involved too. Would Blackbeard consider Law someone who helped him out like he does Koby, or were they on opposite sides of whatever happened? Imagine Blackbeard reaches out to Law for an alliance because of their connection. How's that for a crackpot teamup for the final stage of the story?
Shakuyaku's reveal is one of those great ones that fits right into place as soon as it's mentioned, even though I never saw it guessed. Yeah, we were told the previous empresses died, but it's such an easy leap of logic to say they faked their deaths to chase love (rather than abdicating and risking Kuja unhappy with the new regime coming to find them and try to drag them back or some other similar issue) that I have a hard time seeing that as a contradiction at all.
Koby's kidnapping is a very exciting development. Is Blackbeard just planning to sell him to Buggy for the bounty? It would be a good way to start actually showing what the Marines are worth to Cross Guild. But he seemed amicable to him over the way Rocky Port played out. Maybe Blackbeard is trying to recruit a man on the inside or ally with elements of the Navy in some other way for his own plans (not that Koby is likely to play along) or just manipulate the World Government with a hostage.
Oda has been absolutely on a roll since the curtains closed on Wano. I'm looking forward to more of these kinds of unpredictable vignettes of the world at large for at least another chapter before we circle back to Koby or Sabo's big cliffhangers. I couple of weeks ago, I was disappointed that Oda was being slow setting up the next destination. Now, I just want more of exactly what we're getting here.
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@King-Cannon The kid just looks way more like King than Mihawk to me based off the chapter and especially it just being in black and white.
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Yeah I thought it was King too, lol totally missed the Mihawk connection lol
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The sword and the eyes are the biggest giveaway that it's supposed to be Mihawk.
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@Cyan-D-Funk yeah I can totally see it now, I feel kind of stupid for missing it actually
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It's Vegapunk's fault, really. He gives Seraphancock her earrings, but no iconic hat to Seraphawk?
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Actually, yeah, I didn't care for Seraphim Hancock having the snake earrings. Felt too on the nose.
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Will Vegapunk also give Seraphim Moria an adorable pair of suspenders?
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I guess this chapter is meant to tell us that Luffy's flag support for Wano isn't enough, because of Luffy's picture being up there on Amazon Lily which could be taken as a sign of his protection, but goes ignored with Blackbeard and others storming into there anyway.
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Oda: the manga became too long because of the Shichibukai.
Oda: I want to finish One Piece in the next three years.
Also Oda: what if I bring all the Shichibukai back and make a bunch of clones of them?
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@Deicide I mean, it seems so much was off-paneled so it's hard to say what really happened, but Koby being unaffected(like with everyone else unaffected) should just mean he wasn't hit. Let's not pretend Oda is above having his characters get lucky just because he needs them to.
I think if he was immune to Hancock's power, Oda would have highlighted it. Likewise if he blocked or dodged it.
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@danie There was a lot skipped between panels. For instance, Devon and Shot seemed hit by Love Love Beam, since there's no arrows on them, and they couldn't possibly be with the marines in the first wave of arrows.
Or why is Hancock bleeding and hurt if she wasn't hit once?
We didn't see how Koby avoided being petrified, but what if he dodged the arrows, then was hit by the beam that petrified Devon and Shot, but wasn't affected? Blackbeard seeing that could raise questions. Since we didn't see all the action, the possibility is there.
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Koby is probably specialized in observation haki so it is not that surprising he was able to avoid the arrows
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@Captain-M said in Chapter 1059: The Matter Involving Captain Koby:
I thought we were done talking about Yamato for a while, but once again I get what I want in the strangest way possible. First he doesn't join, but the justification is weak and the character arc non-existent. Now, we see the character arc, but it's wedged in awkwardly long after the fact. And that's a shame because in a vacuum, I really like the scene. Yamato choosing not to abandon Wano and wanting to put it ahead of his own desire to adventure is exactly the kind of acknowledgement of Oden's failings I've been hoping for. Like Momo waiting for the opportune moment to open the country instead of doing it right away, Yamato can honour his legacy and will without following his exact footsteps.
Yep, and just as Oden didn't ask for Whitebeard Pirates' help against an Emperor in the past, Yamato may also be different in asking for their help now in the event Blackbeard invades Wano, which could then possibly lead into them being the ones to protect Wano from the inside while Yamato pursues greater ambitions at sea.
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@Johnny-B-Decent said in Chapter 1059: The Matter Involving Captain Koby:
Actually, yeah, I didn't care for Seraphim Hancock having the snake earrings. Felt too on the nose.
If she didn't have the earrings readers would mistake her for Robin.
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This chapter is such a meh
Hype for SSG is gone and as expected it's fucking cloning hence nothing new or creative, it certainly increases the value of king who was defeated in a battle that makes less sense than a flying frog
Oda has no respect whatsoever for the strongest yonko Blackbeard, Rayleigh is too old to frighten all parties involved and save the island
And the other disrespect for BB he needed the help of a puny marine youngster to defeat someone who's supposed to be +60 years old to take over beehive island
Teach shouldn't need the help of anyone to defeat some old fart or be intimidated by another old fart
Coby is so insignificant that Oda skipped his whole fight in the island and as expected he's not a match for a former warlord not along being called a hero like Garp, as anyone could see this narrative is so forced which leaves a bad taste, so bad
Unlike Teach, Hancock has CoC and she was completely useless after losing her ability
Teach's darkness does not nullify Haki at all, Imagine being so helpless for losing your DF while you have a stronger Haki than your opponent
That's what a yonko does, to diminish big names onto embarrassment of incompetence.
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@electricmastro said in Chapter 1059: The Matter Involving Captain Koby:
I guess this chapter is meant to tell us that Luffy's flag support for Wano isn't enough, because of Luffy's picture being up there on Amazon Lily which could be taken as a sign of his protection, but goes ignored with Blackbeard and others storming into there anyway.
Luffy's relation to the Kuja Tribe is an absolute secret, and now that you mentioned it, it's weird that we didn't see Koby making any sort of comment on that pic. (but this chapter also showed us Oda doesn't give two shits about leaving important stuff for a flashback down the line)
But anyway, only the members of the very closed off Kuja tribe know Luffy is their ally. Hancock helped Luffy infiltrate Impel Down and later fought Marines during the Paramount War but she still kept her shichibukai title meaning that their connection was never on anyone's radar.
Luffy never declared his public support of the amazons nor his is pic the same as his flag. His huge photo on the bottom of the palace means simply that Hancock has a crush on him, or for someone who doesn't know their relation, it could mean he's her sworn enemy. The StrawHats flag flying on top of the palace is what would indicate that Amazon Lilly is under Luffy's protection. -
First time I'm gonna try good and bad points when commenting a chapter so apologies if it looks a bit messy.
The Good
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Yamato providing exactly the explenation for staying behind, I was laughed at when I said that this could be a possilbe scenario. Cathartic is not strong enough of a word to describe the emotions I'm feeling now.
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Nice to see more of what happened to other big players in the One Piece world, even if it's a brief and condensed version. That we learned what became of Boa Hancock (and Amazon Lily for that matter) and what Blackbeard meant when he said, he wouldn't let the Marines have it.
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Very happy that I got proven wrong and that the Marines actually did send something more threatening to face some of the Warlords. Still doesn't undo that Mihawk and Buggy most likely didn't have the same level of opponents thrown at them.
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The new Pacifista reveal. Not what I expected which is not a bad thing at all. Interested to see more of the Seraphim and learn more about what Vegapunk did with them.
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Boa Hancock confirming that her beauty and her DF ability being two different things that complement each other rather than being one and the same. It's been a bit of debate back during the Amazon Lily arc so it's nice to have that finally stated clearly.
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Every chapter with old Rayleigh is a plus. My second favorite character after Crocodile (so these past chapters were a treat in terms of fanservice to me).
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Also nice to see Shakkey again. And it's a welcome surprise that she was one of the former Amazon Lily empresses. I sure thought she was a Rocks Pirate considering what she said about her past with Garp.
The Bad
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The coverstory: So Katakuri's future sight couldn't help him against hallucinations. I've already seen arguments being made for the gas possibly having him made lose his coolness. But honestly, if we increase the increase the frequency of him losing his coolness already so that other guys besides Luffy (and weaker ones at that) can land a punch on him, then I really begin to question how this character could keep cool to not have been punched to the face all those years.
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Yamato's desicion to stay behind pretty much being a slap in the face to Momo, who wanted her and Luffy to sail without worrying about him and Wano. This is not a jab at Yamato, who's reasoning is perfectly understandable. As I as said above in the "the good" section. It was something that I considered plausible. But it's once again Oda being inconsequential with having characters proving one point, only to have it undermined a few chapters later.
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Who the fuck is that guy looking like Luffy? Must be an impostor. Because accepting this easily that Yamato, who even said she really wants to be part of the crew, stays behind is so unlike Luffy. Especially with the "yeah, this is reassuring for us too" attitude. What happened to the guy who left countless other countries behind and moved forward "kidnapping princesses" along the way in order to help them do what they wanted to do the most? Again, I saw Yamato not joining. But this entire characterization just leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
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I feel it's a bit too many surprise appearances for one chapter. First Blackbeard than Rayleigh. I guess if
this was Kubo, it'd be a classic surprise attack from behind scenariowe had more time then each of those could be a chapter cliffhanger. But in one chapter the frequency is just a bit too high and creates the feeling of just throwing fanservice at us, even though there is a story driven purpose for the characters to be here. -
Boa Hancocks powers being even more of a self-contradictory mess now. Yes, I mentioned in "the good" that it's nice to know that her beauty contributes to her DF ability but that they are not one and the same. But the events that transpire on screen just make no sense. Blackbeard just said (obviously not knowing about Luffy) that it is impossible for any man to not fall under Hancocks spell. That's the guy speaking, who pretty much is holding her at his mercy right now. This very moment the only thing Hancock has IS her beauty but not her DF ability. In other words, he is NOT falling to her spell. Heck, back then Hancock couldn't turn Luffy to stone because her beauty had no effect on him. It is portrayed as an integral part of the ability working for her (which makes me wonder how effective the ability is if one Teach's uglors would aquire it). If her beauty is that much of a big deal, then it should have an effect on Teach too. But nope, it doesn't and he's ready to kill her. I guess, it stops being a factor whenever the plot dictates it.
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Rayleighs appearance being yet another Deus Ex Machina moment in this series. Yes, I know I listed his appearance above as something positive. But I'd rather see him drinking at a bar then another DEM after Shanks a few chapters back.
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Blackbeard turning tail once again. First in Marineford because he's not ready to fight Shanks (who by the way is the guy he himself gave a scar too long ago), then upon entering the New World where he is not ready to take on Akainu (even though he was willing to take on the enterity of Marineford while Sengoku, Garp, Aokiji, Kizaru and friggin' Akainu imswlf were there, accompanied by a crapton of troops and other high ranking Marines). And now he turns tail on Rayleigh. Sure, I like my Ray-Ray to get another badass moment. But having Teach continuously turn away from confronting big boys is just as annoying as seeing Shanks interrupting other people's gatherings. For all the shit give Kaido and especially Big Mom, I don't see either of them turning tail in any of those situations.
I'm not sure, I've covered everything. But that's pretty much my take on the chapter. Sorry if it's a confusing read. As I said, first time to structure it like this. All in all, while the chapter has some nice fanservice for me, I wouldn't consider it something that blew me away. It's just there really.
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@FolhaS said in Chapter 1059: The Matter Involving Captain Koby:
@electricmastro said in Chapter 1059: The Matter Involving Captain Koby:
I guess this chapter is meant to tell us that Luffy's flag support for Wano isn't enough, because of Luffy's picture being up there on Amazon Lily which could be taken as a sign of his protection, but goes ignored with Blackbeard and others storming into there anyway.
Luffy's relation to the Kuja Tribe is an absolute secret
Well I get the feeling that has been put into question now that Blackbeard and other Marines that got away had their time to see a big-ass picture of Luffy plastered on the wall, even just off-panel. >_>
But yeah, I'm just saying it's possible. lol
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@Ivotas said in Chapter 1059: The Matter Involving Captain Koby:
- Boa Hancocks powers being even more of a self-contradictory mess now. Yes, I mentioned in "the good" that it's nice to know that her beauty contributes to her DF ability but that they are not one and the same. But the events that transpire on screen just make no sense. Blackbeard just said (obviously not knowing about Luffy) that it is impossible for any man to not fall under Hancocks spell. That's the guy speaking, who pretty much is holding her at his mercy right now. This very moment the only thing Hancock has IS her beauty but not her DF ability. In other words, he is NOT falling to her spell. Heck, back then Hancock couldn't turn Luffy to stone because her beauty had no effect on him. It is portrayed as an integral part of the ability working for her (which makes me wonder how effective the ability is if one Teach's uglors would aquire it). If her beauty is that much of a big deal, then it should have an effect on Teach too. But nope, it doesn't and he's ready to kill her. I guess, it stops being a factor whenever the plot dictates it.
You can hurt someone you find attractive. Vasco Shot definitely find Handcock higly appealing. But he also would gladly hurt her to get what he wants from her beauty. Same for the celestial dragons that take people wives. I dont see why no one being immune to Handcock beauty should mean everyone react to her beauty by serving her.
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Chapter's been throughfully discussed in the spoiler thread, 3 main points I stand by:
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Yamato's "explanation" just made everything plain worse from any point of view other than the "logical" one;
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Blackbeard is always a joy to witness every time he's on page;
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Oda really needs to stop this desperate situation resolved immeditely by sudden Flex ex Machina from strong guy that makes everybody go "oh, i don't wanna fight you!" and flee. Is redundant and it's boring.
Other than that, seraphims are cool I guess? except thay didn't accomplish anything other than massive vandalism against natural heritage.
Curiosity has its own reason for existing
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My favorite part at all of these chapters is how Oda successfully shows how Warlords are worth of their fame and clearly a worldly threat. Indeed they are the most minacious pirates after Four Emperors, and I love every inch of it.
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@desa said in Chapter 1059: The Matter Involving Captain Koby:
@Ivotas said in Chapter 1059: The Matter Involving Captain Koby:
- Boa Hancocks powers being even more of a self-contradictory mess now. Yes, I mentioned in "the good" that it's nice to know that her beauty contributes to her DF ability but that they are not one and the same. But the events that transpire on screen just make no sense. Blackbeard just said (obviously not knowing about Luffy) that it is impossible for any man to not fall under Hancocks spell. That's the guy speaking, who pretty much is holding her at his mercy right now. This very moment the only thing Hancock has IS her beauty but not her DF ability. In other words, he is NOT falling to her spell. Heck, back then Hancock couldn't turn Luffy to stone because her beauty had no effect on him. It is portrayed as an integral part of the ability working for her (which makes me wonder how effective the ability is if one Teach's uglors would aquire it). If her beauty is that much of a big deal, then it should have an effect on Teach too. But nope, it doesn't and he's ready to kill her. I guess, it stops being a factor whenever the plot dictates it.
You can hurt someone you find attractive. Vasco Shot definitely find Handcock higly appealing. But he also would gladly hurt her to get what he wants from her beauty. Same for the celestial dragons that take people wives. I dont see why no one being immune to Handcock beauty should mean everyone react to her beauty by serving her.
While this might be well and true, it's not the point I was trying to make. What I have a problem with is her stating how her beauty is a key factor in her fighting style. Which pretty much get's visually negated in the same panel she makes that claim, by being in a choke hold by Blackbeard. There is zero signs that point at Teach being even remotely captivated by her beauty. He also doesn't want to hurt her because of some sort of affection. He just wants her DF ability.
So for him to go worry about releasing her because supposedly no man can resist her, while is literally doing exactly that while saying those words is lacking any sense.
This problem is not something that is a new development. It's been bad writing back then, when Hancock failed to petrify Luffy because he wasn't captivated by her beauty. Back then I already mentioned that connecting the ability to such a factor makes the ability itself weak, as in the hands of an unattractive user likely nobody would get petryfied. But that was over a decade ago so the "Goda is the bestest ever" crowd didn't like too kindly to critisizing nonesensical writing.
Thankfully things have changed nowadays. It made no sense back then and it makes even less sense now, that she specifically points out that her beauty makes the fruit more effective. Luffy wasn't captivated by her beauty back then and Teach isn't now. So him worrying by specifically talking about no man being able to resist her makes this a self-contradictory scene. If he'd say something along the lines, that the ability surely most be powerful and troublesome either way, then his behaviour would make no sense. But worrying about falling for her while is doing the exact opposite is the textbook definition of a self contradiction.
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A small detail I enjoyed is how Rayleigh is often subtly shown as Shank's role model or father figure. His line to Teach about not liking him feels intentionally similar to Shank's line to Aramaki.
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@Ivotas said in Chapter 1059: The Matter Involving Captain Koby:
But worrying about falling for her while is doing the exact opposite is the textbook definition of a self contradiction.
I didn't understand it quite like that. I would say Blackbeard is troubled by the beauty of Hancock, which is why he assumes himself to be vulnerable to her petrifying powers. Nevertheless, it doesn't go any deeper and certainly doesn't reach Sanji levels of stupid where he'd be head over heels for her, all drooly and not daring to raise a hand.
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@Ivotas said in Chapter 1059: The Matter Involving Captain Koby:
Blackbeard turning tail once again.
You are free to feel however you like about it, but it's a very in character action. I think that it may be a side effect of thinking too much about power levels and wanting to watch said thoughts in action, but it seems very Black-y to fail a bit (didn't get Hancock's fruit), and take the easiest route out (avoid fighting a Shichibukai, the Pirate King's right hand man and, well, Koby) with a consolation prize (the kidnapping for sure will bear fruit - pun intended).
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@Seafarer33 said in Chapter 1059: The Matter Involving Captain Koby:
@Ivotas said in Chapter 1059: The Matter Involving Captain Koby:
But worrying about falling for her while is doing the exact opposite is the textbook definition of a self contradiction.
I didn't understand it quite like that. I would say Blackbeard is troubled by the beauty of Hancock, which is why he assumes himself to be vulnerable to her petrifying powers. Nevertheless, it doesn't go any deeper and certainly doesn't reach Sanji levels of stupid where he'd be head over heels for her, all drooly and not daring to raise a hand.
I can only go with what I see in story. So far we've had the petrification powers not work on Luffy because Hancocks beauty didn't affect him and now Teach doesn't seem phased by Hancocks beauty either, even though both her and them him specifically talk about the beauty.
Don't get me wrong. I'm having no problem with Teach being cautions here. It's the right thing to do because you wouldn't want to be manipulated into getting cought off guard. The problem is that this wording makes the poorly written hax powers even more poorly written. While leaving the beauty aspect out in Teach's worries would have worked much better.
Instead have him say something along the lines "beautiful or not, those powers of yours are dangerous" would have taken the scene in a better direction. Hype up the ability you came to get your hands on in the first place. Not the beauty that doesn't seem to affect you one bit. Otherwise it's like him unintentionally stating that if beauty is a factor, then there's no point in any of his crew aquiring this ability.XD
@puffing-cinema said in Chapter 1059: The Matter Involving Captain Koby:
@Ivotas said in Chapter 1059: The Matter Involving Captain Koby:
Blackbeard turning tail once again.
You are free to feel however you like about it, but it's a very in character action. I think that it may be a side effect of thinking too much about power levels and wanting to watch said thoughts in action, but it seems very Black-y to fail a bit (didn't get Hancock's fruit), and take the easiest route out (avoid fighting a Shichibukai, the Pirate King's right hand man and, well, Koby) with a consolation prize (the kidnapping for sure will bear fruit - pun intended).
Right, because if we critisize a character it has to come down to power level wankery and can't possibly have something to do with less than impressive portrayal of him. And yes, I agree, it totally is in character for him to take the easy way out, which is the core problem with the character on a whole. I cannot take this guy to be a serious threat anymore, when all we see about his supposed threat level be tell not show. Sure he's beaten Ace but who hasn't? And taking down an Warlord isn't really an impressive feat for someone who's an Emperor.
Thing is we've seen him run away three times and and two times getting taken out with few attacks against Magellan and Newgate. The latter is the bigger problem because him coming to claim Newgate's position is something that has been hyped up for hundreds of chapters. And it was treated as nothing but a joke. What have we laughed! Add further that his masterplan to become a Warlord served the one and only purpose to get to Impel Down, which was also a big letdown back then.
What I'm saying is that the story frames him to be this big bad and anti-Luffy. Yet we really don't see him actually do those impressive things. We are only told he did it. Whenever we actually see him do things it's always undermined in one way or the other. I'm sorry, but I'm not expecting great things of him. At this point I wouldn't even be surprised if he's really nothing else but a hype tool for Rocks.
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@Bugs said in Chapter 1059: The Matter Involving Captain Koby:
Overall, I found this chapter... lacking. For the second time in a row, we've got a chapter that splits between a small Strawhat focused bit, over topics related to Wano, and a larger "while the Strawhats were on Wano, this happened" development. But unlike the last one, where the similarity of both new Emperors, Luffy and Buggy, being brought low by their "subordinates" united the two pieces while providing quite a bit of humor, this one just doesn't click for me.
There is one thematic bit in common where both Luffy and Teach's are acknowledged for their strength by a former crewmate of a great pirate, but with contrasting sentiments (affection from Marco contrasted with dislike from Rayleigh), but the majority of the chapter was focused on exposition.
In general, it seems that Luffy has been compared and contrasted with two of the current Yonko in each of the last two chapters.
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@Ivotas , Blackbeard is not the only one who was not turned into stone. He probably managed to avoid Hancock's arrows (probably thanks to Haki), like Koby did and once he grapped her, she cannot used it anymore.
I don't see any problem here. It is completely different from Luffy which was imune even if he was touched. -
This seems just like judges clones but is it like the soldier clones judge can make in 5 years, so are these warlords less or need proper time. Did sanji and bros get cloned too or that is something else.
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@Kdom said in Chapter 1059: The Matter Involving Captain Koby:
@Ivotas , Blackbeard is not the only one who was not turned into stone. He probably managed to avoid Hancock's arrows (probably thanks to Haki), like Koby did and once he grapped her, she cannot used it anymore.
I don't see any problem here. It is completely different from Luffy which was imune even if he was touched.That's not what I'm talking about at all. Whether he dodged or brushed off Hancocks attack is completely different point but not the one I'm making.
The thing that rubs me the wrong way, is Teach expressing worries about Hancocks effects on men, when at no point in the chapter he seems to be susceptible to her beauty. If he'd instead express worries about her DF ability once he let's go off her, I'd be ok with the scene as it is. After all, he came to get his hands on it. But that's not the subject of Teach's worries at all. That's all I'm saying. I don't see how dodging her attacks has anything to do with what I'm talking about.
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@Ivotas said in Chapter 1059: The Matter Involving Captain Koby:
@desa said in Chapter 1059: The Matter Involving Captain Koby:
@Ivotas said in Chapter 1059: The Matter Involving Captain Koby:
- Boa Hancocks powers being even more of a self-contradictory mess now. Yes, I mentioned in "the good" that it's nice to know that her beauty contributes to her DF ability but that they are not one and the same. But the events that transpire on screen just make no sense. Blackbeard just said (obviously not knowing about Luffy) that it is impossible for any man to not fall under Hancocks spell. That's the guy speaking, who pretty much is holding her at his mercy right now. This very moment the only thing Hancock has IS her beauty but not her DF ability. In other words, he is NOT falling to her spell. Heck, back then Hancock couldn't turn Luffy to stone because her beauty had no effect on him. It is portrayed as an integral part of the ability working for her (which makes me wonder how effective the ability is if one Teach's uglors would aquire it). If her beauty is that much of a big deal, then it should have an effect on Teach too. But nope, it doesn't and he's ready to kill her. I guess, it stops being a factor whenever the plot dictates it.
You can hurt someone you find attractive. Vasco Shot definitely find Handcock higly appealing. But he also would gladly hurt her to get what he wants from her beauty. Same for the celestial dragons that take people wives. I dont see why no one being immune to Handcock beauty should mean everyone react to her beauty by serving her.
While this might be well and true, it's not the point I was trying to make. What I have a problem with is her stating how her beauty is a key factor in her fighting style. Which pretty much get's visually negated in the same panel she makes that claim, by being in a choke hold by Blackbeard. There is zero signs that point at Teach being even remotely captivated by her beauty. He also doesn't want to hurt her because of some sort of affection. He just wants her DF ability.
So for him to go worry about releasing her because supposedly no man can resist her, while is literally doing exactly that while saying those words is lacking any sense.
This problem is not something that is a new development. It's been bad writing back then, when Hancock failed to petrify Luffy because he wasn't captivated by her beauty. Back then I already mentioned that connecting the ability to such a factor makes the ability itself weak, as in the hands of an unattractive user likely nobody would get petryfied. But that was over a decade ago so the "Goda is the bestest ever" crowd didn't like too kindly to critisizing nonesensical writing.
Thankfully things have changed nowadays. It made no sense back then and it makes even less sense now, that she specifically points out that her beauty makes the fruit more effective. Luffy wasn't captivated by her beauty back then and Teach isn't now. So him worrying by specifically talking about no man being able to resist her makes this a self-contradictory scene. If he'd say something along the lines, that the ability surely most be powerful and troublesome either way, then his behaviour would make no sense. But worrying about falling for her while is doing the exact opposite is the textbook definition of a self contradiction.
Blackbeard would gladly put her in his harem and have his time with her if she wasnt dangerous. he find her physically attractive and is vulnerable to attacks relying on his attraction to her.
Luffy has a childlike mind where he has no concept of physical attraction and therefore is immune.
At least that's my understanding of it. Its not about becoming brain dead like Sanji because she is hot. Its a matter of do you find her attractive or not.
I dont think the dutiful Momanga was secretly simping for Boa and fangirling. But he was aware that he finds her attractive and the beam would freeze him because of that. And being the most attractive woman her powers work on the great majority of men because they find her attractive.
Until she tries to use her power on like Mihawk and it Crocodile or Shanks and it doesnt work because they are too cool to care I think the power make sense.
The real problem is that Luffy exist and is immune and how much does it make sense that Luffy has no physical attraction to people. Because Im pretty sure we seen him exhibit interest in those matters in Alabasta.
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@desa said in Chapter 1059: The Matter Involving Captain Koby:
The real problem is that Luffy exist and is immune and how much does it make sense that Luffy has no physical attraction to people. Because Im pretty sure we seen him exhibit interest in those matters in Alabasta.
We got an answer to this in an SBS
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@desa said in Chapter 1059: The Matter Involving Captain Koby:
@Ivotas said in Chapter 1059: The Matter Involving Captain Koby:
@desa said in Chapter 1059: The Matter Involving Captain Koby:
@Ivotas said in Chapter 1059: The Matter Involving Captain Koby:
- Boa Hancocks powers being even more of a self-contradictory mess now. Yes, I mentioned in "the good" that it's nice to know that her beauty contributes to her DF ability but that they are not one and the same. But the events that transpire on screen just make no sense. Blackbeard just said (obviously not knowing about Luffy) that it is impossible for any man to not fall under Hancocks spell. That's the guy speaking, who pretty much is holding her at his mercy right now. This very moment the only thing Hancock has IS her beauty but not her DF ability. In other words, he is NOT falling to her spell. Heck, back then Hancock couldn't turn Luffy to stone because her beauty had no effect on him. It is portrayed as an integral part of the ability working for her (which makes me wonder how effective the ability is if one Teach's uglors would aquire it). If her beauty is that much of a big deal, then it should have an effect on Teach too. But nope, it doesn't and he's ready to kill her. I guess, it stops being a factor whenever the plot dictates it.
You can hurt someone you find attractive. Vasco Shot definitely find Handcock higly appealing. But he also would gladly hurt her to get what he wants from her beauty. Same for the celestial dragons that take people wives. I dont see why no one being immune to Handcock beauty should mean everyone react to her beauty by serving her.
While this might be well and true, it's not the point I was trying to make. What I have a problem with is her stating how her beauty is a key factor in her fighting style. Which pretty much get's visually negated in the same panel she makes that claim, by being in a choke hold by Blackbeard. There is zero signs that point at Teach being even remotely captivated by her beauty. He also doesn't want to hurt her because of some sort of affection. He just wants her DF ability.
So for him to go worry about releasing her because supposedly no man can resist her, while is literally doing exactly that while saying those words is lacking any sense.
This problem is not something that is a new development. It's been bad writing back then, when Hancock failed to petrify Luffy because he wasn't captivated by her beauty. Back then I already mentioned that connecting the ability to such a factor makes the ability itself weak, as in the hands of an unattractive user likely nobody would get petryfied. But that was over a decade ago so the "Goda is the bestest ever" crowd didn't like too kindly to critisizing nonesensical writing.
Thankfully things have changed nowadays. It made no sense back then and it makes even less sense now, that she specifically points out that her beauty makes the fruit more effective. Luffy wasn't captivated by her beauty back then and Teach isn't now. So him worrying by specifically talking about no man being able to resist her makes this a self-contradictory scene. If he'd say something along the lines, that the ability surely most be powerful and troublesome either way, then his behaviour would make no sense. But worrying about falling for her while is doing the exact opposite is the textbook definition of a self contradiction.
Blackbeard would gladly put her in his harem and have his time with her if she wasnt dangerous. he find her physically attractive and is vulnerable to attacks relying on his attraction to her.
This is a valid assumption but I think that what we've seen in this chapter makes it a lesser likely one. Teach seemed strong willed enough to go for the kill while he was literally holding her in the palm of his hand. I'd say he got a pretty good look at her beauty and yet it did nothing to sway him. I have to take this at face value.
Luffy has a childlike mind where he has no concept of physical attraction and therefore is immune.
At least that's my understanding of it. Its not about becoming brain dead like Sanji because she is hot. Its a matter of do you find her attractive or not.
I dont think the dutiful Momanga was secretly simping for Boa and fangirling. But he was aware that he finds her attractive and the beam would freeze him because of that. And being the most attractive woman her powers work on the great majority of men because they find her attractive.
Momonga is Momonga, Teach is Teach. Just because one character might secretly simping for her it doesn't mean another one does. Teach came to Amazon Lily with the intention to kill Hancock so that he could get her DF ability. This was not just an abstract plan or idea. He really was in the process of doing exactly that. But it wasn't Hancock's attractiveness that stopped him. It was Deus Ex-King Rayleigh.
Until she tries to use her power on like Mihawk and it Crocodile or Shanks and it doesnt work because they are too cool to care I think the power make sense.
The real problem is that Luffy exist and is immune and how much does it make sense that Luffy has no physical attraction to people. Because Im pretty sure we seen him exhibit interest in those matters in Alabasta.
Luffy and Hancock is a whole different can of worms. Because this entire connection between a DF ability and the users natural attractiveness is just bad writing. We're now at a point in the story where aquiring another users ability is actually a thing. And if we consider how the Luffy vs. Hancock confrontation played out, and also that in this chapter Hancock reinforces the idea that her beauty adds to the DFs effectiveness, then we really have to believe that the ability is a waste in the hands of a character, who's generally considered to be unattractive.
Just for shits and giggles imagine pre-"facelift" Duval getting the ability with all the same pro's and con's established. I would assume that everybody would be as indifferent to him as Luffy was towards Hancock. In which case the fruit would be pointless. That's the problem when Oda comes up with an idea without thinking things through. He most likely wanted a comparable scenario to Luffy vs. Enel or Usopp vs. Perona, where only one person in the world could sway Hancock. Only the problem is here being that Luffy's childlike attitude is a perfect counter to Hancocks beauty. But it in no shape or form has any relation to the Mero Mero Fruit.
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- Right, because if we critisize a character it has to come down to power level wankery and can't possibly have something to do with less than impressive portrayal of him.
I'm sorry, but my major take away from your response is simply that Teach is not being portrayed as you expect him to be. Meaning that you want to see an imposing character, and you are not getting any of it. Which is true, but this isn't criticism to the character at all.
Your talk about "threat" and "unimpressive feats" reminds me a lot of powerlevel yankery, that's why I brought it up.
Taking out a Shichibukai is a big deal in universe; outside of it goes down to how the reader perceives it. It still feels like something noteworthy to me.
- Thing is we've seen him run away three times and and two times getting taken out with few attacks against Magellan and Newgate. The latter is the bigger problem because him coming to claim Newgate's position is something that has been hyped up for hundreds of chapters (...) Add further that his masterplan to become a Warlord served the one and only purpose to get to Impel Down, which was also a big letdown back then.
Honestly I don't know what you are talking about. I thought it was a consensus that Impel Down was well regarded as an arc, and don't recall people getting mad about BB involvement there. He showing up at Marineford and steeling a fruit was a page off everybody's book because it directly contradicts what we knewn about fruits up until then. It was a shocking development, and a character defining one at that. It wasn't a letdown to the community by any means as far as I know.
What I'm saying is that the story frames him to be this big bad and anti-Luffy. Yet we really don't see him actually do those impressive things. We are only told he did it. Whenever we actually see him do things it's always undermined in one way or the other. I'm sorry, but I'm not expecting great things of him. At this point I wouldn't even be surprised if he's really nothing else but a hype tool for Rocks.
We don't see him as imposing, but he manages to secure his goals even though he struggles in doing so. I think it's a fresh approach to a big bad, and I don't see how it mines how much of a force he can be. He has plenty of feats, he's just not Aizening the whole thing. You may not like it, but I think it's undeniable that he'll have a major role in the finishing arc.
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@Daz said in Spoilers 1059:
Beyond the matter of it being badly executed or not - which I'd agree this very much is - the end result is still pretty much exactly what Deicide, theackwardstation and others argued, and got a lot, a lot, so much condescencion for arguing. With this outcome it's such an incredibly small thing to at least acknowledge that maybe the opposing side had a point, that maybe the tone of the counterargumentation was a bit unwarranted. For the sake of fostering an environment in this forum where people are still willing to debate each other minimal concessions like that are vital, otherwise why should people bother interacting, if you can end up with an outcome like this where not even the smallest amount of credit can be offered?
I can only speak for myself and how I addressed those arguments, but I still firmly believe that the amount of condescension in my rebuttals was appropriate. I mean, comparing panel sizes? Going by the villains words? Blowing up a shocked expression into a whole epiphany about needing to mentor Momo? Basing all arguments on a never before alluded to Guardian Deity that was - surprise surprise - also never ever mentioned again, while unable to refute the existence of other Deities, some even human, in Wano?
Those arguments all turned out to be wrong, as people have said over and over again. So the question at heart is: Does someone have a point if their reasoning for said point has been wrong all along but the result just happens to be the same for other reasons? I don't see it that way. It's fine if people disagree but to me that's just being lucky. -
I'll be frank here, I was wondering why everyone was going about cloning, because I thought that that Serpahim girl was somehow a relative of her modified to become a human weapon or something, then i realised that the other Serpahim is assumedly a clone of Mihawk.
Frankly, the more interesting part to me isn't the cloning, but the Lunarian characteristics. Ignoring the process, I really wonder why the WG is so hellbent on using Lunarian powers. Maybe it's time to re-read Enel's coverstory, it could probably be very important. And thinking back, the fact that they have black wings, unlike Skypieans with white wings, is also very interesting. I just rewatched Impel Down and Marineford arcs, and I noticed Whitebeard's diaolgue of "you may eradicate his bloodlines, but their flames will never die" may be referring to literal flames. Given that we just got to know Joyboy was apparently a God, the Lunarian clones being called Seraph is very interesting.
It was a good chapter, but honestly I agree with the others, the editing is very weird and choppy as we jump around awkwardly. I have no problems with Yamato's choice and decision, many people saw that coming, and we now know that the WG is serious about capturing. Protecting Wano is important, and Momo has a long way to go before he is able to do that, he just aged up 20 years after all. But as others have pointed out, the way it's done here is pretty weird. This flashback should have been there in the previous chapters itself.
About Hancock vs Blackbeard, it's pretty simple. Blackbeard says that the combination of her Mero-Mero power and her beauty can't normally be resisted by any man. He was somehow able to block/dodge her powers(probably with Haki), but he thinks if gets hit directly even he would be KO'ed. That fact makes him very very wary, and so of course he doesn't react all Lovey-Dovey with her. Heck, he was willing to kill her from the beginning, so it is obvious that his ruthlessness is not affected just because he acknowledges her beauty
@Captain-M said in Chapter 1059: The Matter Involving Captain Koby:
Like Momo waiting for the opportune moment to open the country instead of doing it right away, Yamato can honour his legacy and will without following his exact footsteps.
Good point. It also sorta counts as character growth for Yamato, because he is finally taking decisions basing on what he wants to do, rather than what Oden would do
The Seraphim are a development I absolutely love. It feels like things that were hinted at for years are finally coming together. Bloodline element research, cloning, autonomous pirate-hunting androids with knock-off devil fruit powers, the gigantification of children, research on Lunarians, the power of the Seven Warlords - all these precedents set across so many shady scientist characters come together to make the Seraphim a logical extension of the existing plot.
You know, when you put it like that, they seem like the logical conclusion for all the buildup we have seen
It stands out to me that Blackbeard instantly recognises the Lunarian traits in the Seraphim. That's some pretty hush-hush stuff with big historical implications. What does he know?
Good point. I doubt his comments about the skin color and wings is just from surprise. He definitely knows about Lunarians
As fun as his arrival is (and terrifying, with the conversation between Vasco and Devon), I do have to wonder about Blackbeard's actual plan. Hancock's fruit has the potential to be incredibly broken in the right hands, but did he really not know he doesn't have those? He could maybe give it to Maki or Tori, the girls he was hanging with in the first Wano intermission (given that the Vivre Card databook canonised them as members of the crew), they seem cute enough to get a little use out of it. Or maybe, given how easily Hancock would be able to take out two of his officers and so many others, he just wanted to take a powerful fruit out of the hands of any potential rivals. There's no shortage of next stops for someone who wants to take nigh-unstoppable fruits off the board. Too bad for Sugar in that case.
That's true. I'm just rolling with the theory that Teach has become an obsessed collector of devil fruits at thispoint, and disregards their effectiveness or compatibility with his personnel. He just thinks it's a neat power and wants it with him. I mean, it was one of the first things we learnt about him in the timeskip
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@puffing-cinema said in Chapter 1059: The Matter Involving Captain Koby:
- Right, because if we critisize a character it has to come down to power level wankery and can't possibly have something to do with less than impressive portrayal of him.
I'm sorry, but my major take away from your response is simply that Teach is not being portrayed as you expect him to be. Meaning that you want to see an imposing character, and you are not getting any of it. Which is true, but this isn't criticism to the character at all.
Your talk about "threat" and "unimpressive feats" reminds me a lot of powerlevel yankery, that's why I brought it up.
Well, you're free to make that assumption but it is still a wrong assessment of the situation as it was not what I was actually saying.
Taking out a Shichibukai is a big deal in universe; outside of it goes down to how the reader perceives it. It still feels like something noteworthy to me.
Yes, it is a big deal in universe. But on the meta level discussion we are having here it's not as impressive anymore as when Luffy has taken down Crocodile which was a huge milestone in the characters journey. Since then two others have fallen to him in a fight, another one has fallen in love with him, another one joined his crew, while yet another one created and alliance with him. Don't get me wrong. I like the Warlords but they are not as impressive anymore as when they were first introduced.
- Thing is we've seen him run away three times and and two times getting taken out with few attacks against Magellan and Newgate. The latter is the bigger problem because him coming to claim Newgate's position is something that has been hyped up for hundreds of chapters (...) Add further that his masterplan to become a Warlord served the one and only purpose to get to Impel Down, which was also a big letdown back then.
Honestly I don't know what you are talking about. I thought it was a consensus that Impel Down was well regarded as an arc, and don't recall people getting mad about BB involvement there. He showing up at Marineford and steeling a fruit was a page off everybody's book because it directly contradicts what we knewn about fruits up until then. It was a shocking development, and a character defining one at that. It wasn't a letdown to the community by any means as far as I know.
Not really. Impel Down being considered a well regarded arc has nothing to do with what I'm talking about here. I'm not even saying that the Blackbeard invovlement is not regarded well. I'm talking about people back then rightfully being disappointed that Blackbeard's "masterplan" for why he joined the Warlords in the first place was all to do something as "trivial" as making it to Impel Down.
And when I say trivial I am aware that it's not an easy feat that anyone can achieve. But for somebody who's been on an Emperors crew and seen it all there should have been an easier way to make it to Impel Down, then trying to capture a bounty of over 100 million Belly in order to be made a Warlord. That's a far too elaborate plan for something as simple. Especially if we consider that one member of the five person crew not only can fly but actually managed to infiltrate Pangaea Castle. That in itself is a far more impressive feat than making it to Impel Down. People were disappointed at that. Not that Teach was there.
What I'm saying is that the story frames him to be this big bad and anti-Luffy. Yet we really don't see him actually do those impressive things. We are only told he did it. Whenever we actually see him do things it's always undermined in one way or the other. I'm sorry, but I'm not expecting great things of him. At this point I wouldn't even be surprised if he's really nothing else but a hype tool for Rocks.
We don't see him as imposing, but he manages to secure his goals even though he struggles in doing so. I think it's a fresh approach to a big bad, and I don't see how it mines how much of a force he can be. He has plenty of feats, he's just not Aizening the whole thing. You may not like it, but I think it's undeniable that he'll have a major role in the finishing arc.
Buggy also manages to achieve his goals, or actually even more, achieve goals he didn't even set to himself. That doesn't make him any lesser pathetic. Of course it's a matter of taste. And I'm saying that I personally I don't consider a guy with such an underwhelming approach to achieving goals a guy who I can take serious anymore. I'm for show not tell. Teach is the other way around.
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@Alfiere said in Chapter 1059: The Matter Involving Captain Koby:
- Yamato's "explanation" just maid everything plain worse from any point of view other than the "logical" one;
Especially in the case if Yamato is suppressing her ambitions.
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Some thoughts about different topics.
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Blackbeard turning tail -- About this, two things: (a) Rayleigh makes it clear that "only the particulars of the situation made it possible to save her [Hancock]", which was the fact that Teach wanted to save his petrified crewmates but didn't have faith that Hancock would honor her word, so Rayleigh weighted in and all parts agreed to end that conflict; (b) it's in character that Teach is a little bit of a dishonorable chicken despite also being quite bold and ambitious.
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Katakuri didn't avoid Caesar's gas -- Seeing a little bit into the future doesn't save you from an inescapable outcome, just like Katakuri couldn't prevent Luffy from destroying the wedding cake despite seeing it in advance. Here, Katakuri was in a closed corridor fighting Germa when Caesar came out of nowehere and released a gas all over the place. Good luck with that! Some overpowered DFs simply have these huge swings.
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Yamato is undermining Momo's point to protect Wano -- No. When Greenbull showed up in Wano, it was clear that Momonosuke and the Samurai couldn't handle Greenbull at all, but needed to be saved by Shanks or, otherwise, by Luffy and his commanders who were waiting to intervene. In that chapter, Momo didn't prove anything other than his determination and pride to not depend on people who'd leave Wano to protect the country (understandable), but Oda made sure to point out that Momo didn't have the strength to save Wano from such threats, so the takeway from that chapter was that Wano wasn't safe with Momo. So Yamato's decision is coherent and doesn't undermine anything in this regard. It's logical and consistent with the narrative.
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About people complaining that Katakuri "lost" to Caesar…
Katakuri still needs to breath, people! Not everyone can have poison immunity by Magellan poisoning followed up by an Ivankov treatment.
Besides, he was fighting 2v5 and winning, until a 6th enemy with non-conventional powers sneak-attacked him.
Powers like Magellan's, Caesar's, Sugar's, Perona's or Hancock's can't be compared with more convencional "hit and damage" attacks. They are OP because they are broken unless you have a specific counter known and available.
This is the same reason that Vasco Shot and Catarina Devon can't be said to have been "surpassed". Defeated, yes, but we still wonder how they'd fare if they came prepared.
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@Ivotas said in Chapter 1059: The Matter Involving Captain Koby:
This is a valid assumption but I think that what we've seen in this chapter makes it a lesser likely one. Teach seemed strong willed enough to go for the kill while he was literally holding her in the palm of his hand. I'd say he got a pretty good look at her beauty and yet it did nothing to sway him. I have to take this at face value.
I think their exchange acknowledge he finds her attractive. She mentions her powers are tied to her beauty and Blackbeard saying no man would resist it (and he is a man). He finds her attractive but that doesnt change his goal for her.
Momonga is Momonga, Teach is Teach. Just because one character might secretly simping for her it doesn't mean another one does. Teach came to Amazon Lily with the intention to kill Hancock so that he could get her DF ability. This was not just an abstract plan or idea. He really was in the process of doing exactly that. But it wasn't Hancock's attractiveness that stopped him. It was Deus Ex-King Rayleigh.
My point is its not about having the will to resist or not. Its just about finding her attractive or not. Momonga only acted about his mission to get her help for the war. But he still needed protection when instant death attack based on attractiveness happen. Because its about having the desire not can you resist that desire.
Or to use Perona fruit as an example. Usopp wasnt looking depressed when he resisted Perona. But his average bad self esteem protected him regardless. And Zoro wasnt boasting when he got attack but his general high self esteem made him a victim regardless.
Its not a matter of if people are about to act on their lust for Boa its just about does it exist in that moment.
Luffy and Hancock is a whole different can of worms. Because this entire connection between a DF ability and the users natural attractiveness is just bad writing. We're now at a point in the story where aquiring another users ability is actually a thing. And if we consider how the Luffy vs. Hancock confrontation played out, and also that in this chapter Hancock reinforces the idea that her beauty adds to the DFs effectiveness, then we really have to believe that the ability is a waste in the hands of a character, who's generally considered to be unattractive.
I mean on people are usually average not unattractive. So it would make a fruit that works sometimes but not always. Big Mom fruit is similar case where its reliant on fear to work. Probably Pappug couldnt do anything with it. but that highly specific to him him. And on the other hand if there was someone who's face is cartoonishly scary he/she would be able to take life from anyone.
And I imagine if you can augment your attractiveness with hero worship, money etc... The same way that being known as a destructive yonko probably help Big Mom being seen as scary.
Just for shits and giggles imagine pre-"facelift" Duval getting the ability with all the same pro's and con's established. I would assume that everybody would be as indifferent to him as Luffy was towards Hancock. In which case the fruit would be pointless. That's the problem when Oda comes up with an idea without thinking things through. He most likely wanted a comparable scenario to Luffy vs. Enel or Usopp vs. Perona, where only one person in the world could sway Hancock. Only the problem is here being that Luffy's childlike attitude is a perfect counter to Hancocks beauty. But it in no shape or form has any relation to the Mero Mero Fruit.
Yes generally speaking the fruit would be useless to Weevil if he had it in a similar way that Big Mom fruit would probably be useless to Pappug if he had.They are fruits that rely on the user ability to inflict a feeling.I understand the idea that its weird that a fruit could theorically be useless if the situation is extreme enough. But sometimes the fruits are weirdly specific in their applications and the for them not to work require very specific handicaps that just the average person doesnt have like Shanks being unable to use Mr 2 fruit properly due to missing a hand.
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@puffing-cinema said in Chapter 1059: The Matter Involving Captain Koby:
I'm sorry, but my major take away from your response is simply that Teach is not being portrayed as you expect him to be. Meaning that you want to see an imposing character, and you are not getting any of it. Which is true, but this isn't criticism to the character at all.
I think talking about how a villain should feel impressive in order so that the hero taking them down can be seen as a big achievement is a villain critism. And Blackbeard is a villain.
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If I remember right the people aroung King recognized his trait when he took the mask out. I dont think the race is a massive secret. They are instinct from the government hunting them down which probably involve knowing what they are and reporting it.
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I'm sure many people will be disappointed with Blackbeard when his arc arrives bacause he's not your typical badass villain, both in looks and personality. Of course he's powerful and a dreamer, but Teach is also defined by using underhanded resources to accomplish his goals, and that was always the case, fully representing the idea that anything is valid when you're a pirate. In this sense, Blackbeard is much more like Foxy than Katakuri. And just look at his crew: Shiryu uses the invisibility DF, Devon is a shapeshifter, Burgess attacks vulnerable opponents, and the rest will probably stick to the theme.
I find this amusing, but some people just don't vibe with it.
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I feel Oda will compensate Blackbeard (and crew) lack of “badassness” by creating personal stakes. In essence, Teach and crew will cause so much harm and provoke such a negative reception from the audience and the heroes that the satisfaction from the fights will come from the feeling of justice and revenge rather than the sensation of overcoming a challenge.
I think, by then, each and every BB pirate will have done something despicable, and each matchup will have personal stakes between the fighters.
Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.
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@Deicide I wouldn't count on all of the Titanic Captains having such pre-established build up.
