I reckon that i probably would've forgotten that Carrot existed if it wasn't for this thread keeping the name alive.
Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)
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I think one of the things that really dashed any possibility for Carrot was the fact that she was never immediately tied to the conflict of the arc. For the other members of the crew, the main conflict for their respective arcs had personal relevance, and its resolution meant something for them. Saving Zoro from execution, saving Usopp’s village and Kaya, defending Baratie, freeing Nami and Cocoyashi from Arlong, driving Wapol out of drum and defending Hiriluk’s will, rescuing Robin and Franky from being taken by the World Government to activate/build Pluton, defeating Moria to return Brook’s shadow to him, helping Jimbei defend Fishman Island. And now liberating Yamato from Kaido. That’s what allows those characters to have major focus in the arcs they join, that the conflict has an added layer to them. Carrot doesn’t really have anything similar to that. She’s been treated like an accessory to the conflict in that way.
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I think one of the things that really dashed any possibility for Carrot was the fact that she was never immediately tied to the conflict of the arc. For the other members of the crew, the main conflict for their respective arcs had personal relevance, and its resolution meant something for them. Saving Zoro from execution, saving Usopp’s village and Kaya, defending Baratie, freeing Nami and Cocoyashi from Arlong, driving Wapol out of drum and defending Hiriluk’s will, rescuing Robin and Franky from being taken by the World Government to activate/build Pluton, defeating Moria to return Brook’s shadow to him, helping Jimbei defend Fishman Island. And now liberating Yamato from Kaido. That’s what allows those characters to have major focus in the arcs they join, that the conflict has an added layer to them. Carrot doesn’t really have anything similar to that. She’s been treated like an accessory to the conflict in that way.
To be fair, Robin being taken by the World Government happened a couple of arcs after she joined and the same argument is being made for Carrot, that she will get her moment “later”. Big difference though is that Robin already had things going for her even before she joined, showing an interest in Luffy directly, saving him and lying to Crocodile about Pluton’s location. Even afterwards she didn’t completely fade into the background, getting her moments in Skypiea with exploring the ruins, finding the Poneglyph and the whole confrontation with Kuzan on Long Ring Long Island that led into the events of Water 7.
Carrot on the other hand… -
But that's my point Bob, that while Yamato shares the "see the world" thing with Carrot (which is honestly the most generic reason to join the SHs to me, almost all the characters so far either have reasons on top of that from the start, or are given new reasons and aims to achieve the same purpose), he simply has far more to his character than Carrot does with less than half the chapter count.
Like let's be honest, if say, Wanda or Shishilian was the stowaway instead of Carrot, would any of the <insert mink="" character="">arc have turned out any differently? I say "No", to the point where we already have 2 or 3 other mink characters embroiled in the "avenge Pedro" storyline.
If Carrot can't be the main protag in her own story thread, then when is her character showcase moment gonna come?</insert>
I agree completely about the "see the world" thing. It's generic and lacks any real draw, especially compared to the rest of the crew. What we disagree on is that there's a lot to Yamato's character. He was friends with Ace. So was Jinbe. He was a fan of Oden. So was everyone on Wano (at the end). His primary purpose for a while was to serve as an exposition dump to tie Ace and Oden to the current plot. And while he's now taking on a much bigger role, which I'll completely admit, the character itself is still bereft of overlapping things that we've seen before. His face resembles Nami's. He has horns, a kanabo, and fighting style that is taken from Kaido. He wears an obi and sandals like Oden not to mention he pretends to be him. The only original concepts that I see are his defining himself as a man and maybe his multi-color hair, but even that concept isn't entirely new (Giolla and Ulti). I just expected potential SHs to be completely new and unique characters, especially from an appearance standpoint. Yes, Carrot is a "rabbit girl," but she's also the only rabbit girl that we've seen in the series.
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To be fair, Robin being taken by the World Government happened a couple of arcs after she joined and the same argument is being made for Carrot, that she will get her moment “later”. Big difference though is that Robin already had things going for her even before she joined, showing an interest in Luffy directly, saving him and lying to Crocodile about Pluton’s location. Even afterwards she didn’t completely fade into the background, getting her moments in Skypiea with exploring the ruins, finding the Poneglyph and the whole confrontation with Kuzan on Long Ring Long Island that led into the events of Water 7.
Carrot on the other hand…Yeah, I think in that way Robin’s a lot more similar to Nami with a more protracted recruitment, that doesn’t really come to a head until after they’ve spent time with the crew. But to your point, the central conflict of Water 7/Enies Lobby still related to Robin specifically, and put her character into primary focus for the arc. There are arguments made that Carrot will get “her moment” yet, and honestly yeah I think at this point that’s undeniable, especially given her popularity in the fandom. Oda likes to cater to his fans (within reason) and give them something they’ll enjoy. But having a good character moment, and being consistently given narrative focus because the character has a uniquely direct connection to the central conflict of the arc are two very different things.
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I agree completely about the "see the world" thing. It's generic and lacks any real draw, especially compared to the rest of the crew. What we disagree on is that there's a lot to Yamato's character. He was friends with Ace. So was Jinbe. He was a fan of Oden. So was everyone on Wano (at the end). His primary purpose for a while was to serve as an exposition dump to tie Ace and Oden to the current plot. And while he's now taking on a much bigger role, which I'll completely admit, the character itself is still bereft of overlapping things that we've seen before. His face resembles Nami's. He has horns, a kanabo, and fighting style that is taken from Kaido. He wears an obi and sandals like Oden not to mention he pretends to be him. The only original concepts that I see are his defining himself as a man and maybe his multi-color hair, but even that concept isn't entirely new (Giolla and Ulti). I just expected potential SHs to be completely new and unique characters, especially from an appearance standpoint. Yes, Carrot is a "rabbit girl," but she's also the only rabbit girl that we've seen in the series.
Well Oda has admitted that he had a limited number of beautiful female faces he likes drawing, so I don’t think that’s really meant to overlap with anything.
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I agree completely about the "see the world" thing. It's generic and lacks any real draw, especially compared to the rest of the crew. What we disagree on is that there's a lot to Yamato's character. He was friends with Ace. So was Jinbe. He was a fan of Oden. So was everyone on Wano (at the end). His primary purpose for a while was to serve as an exposition dump to tie Ace and Oden to the current plot. And while he's now taking on a much bigger role, which I'll completely admit, the character itself is still bereft of overlapping things that we've seen before. His face resembles Nami's. He has horns, a kanabo, and fighting style that is taken from Kaido. He wears an obi and sandals like Oden not to mention he pretends to be him. The only original concepts that I see are his defining himself as a man and maybe his multi-color hair, but even that concept isn't entirely new (Giolla and Ulti). I just expected potential SHs to be completely new and unique characters, especially from an appearance standpoint. Yes, Carrot is a "rabbit girl," but she's also the only rabbit girl that we've seen in the series.
Carrot being the "only Rabbit Girl" means little when she looks like every other female mink.
Wanda's Sulong being shown alongside hers really shows how generic Carrot is. She simply doesn't stand out. It's clear Oda didn't put much thought into her design and abilities.
Especially now that Nami is as associated with electricity as ever, even having a living lightning cloud as a partner.
And we already have Chopper for an ultimate form transformation, except hers is incredibly situational too.
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The thing is, even on WCI I've never seen Carrot as a main protagonist material. I saw her as Kinemon 2.xx, just a companion that fought together with the crew.
IF she was set to be a main character then we've seen her flashback and aspiration etc in WCI which is her second arc. Hell even in Zou Carrot was never prominent… she lost the spotlight to Pekoms...
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The thing is, even on WCI I've never seen Carrot as a main protagonist material. I saw her as Kinemon 2.xx, just a companion that fought together with the crew.
IF she was set to be a main character then we've seen her flashback and aspiration etc in WCI which is her second arc. Hell even in Zou Carrot was never prominent… she lost the spotlight to Pekoms...
Yeah, another great thing about the straw hats is that each of them have enough of a driving force to standout as the leading main character in their own manga.
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I'm not seeing the crewmate potential in anyone right now, to be frank…
Yeah, I have my bias due to my decade-long prediction, so I'm doubly doubtful of anyone that appears, but the story isn't really selling any character to me right now.
Yeah, Yamato has a lot of potential, and he asking to go on the ship shows a strong desire to join the crew. But, at the same time, he still lacks some things I expect from a main character. To me, right now, all he did is glue together many threads from Wano. He explained Ace's action in Wano, he's bringing info from Oden to the present, he gave Momonosuke the journal that's rightfully his, but he himself has been barely explored. He carries a lot of mystery regarding his origins and relationship to his dad, but right now I can't say if those revelations will elevate him from secondary to main character.
In a way, I feel towards him a lot of what I felt towards Carrot in WCI. Their stories aren't the same, of course, but Carrot also had a lot of promise and, so far, hasn't realised that potential.
I don't outright discard anyone joining, but I also don't see anyone really being the center of the narrative. Is Yamato important? No doubt about that. But that alone doesn't make him a strong candidate. Law is important, Kin'emon and Momonosuke were important, Rebecca and Kyros were important, Pudding was important, Bege was important.
Yamato wanting to go with Luffy may be a big in-your-face hint. But it can also be misdirection. Whatever character arc Yamato has ahead may still change his perspective on a lot of things.
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I'm not seeing the crewmate potential in anyone right now, to be frank…
Yeah, I have my bias due to my decade-long prediction, so I'm doubly doubtful of anyone that appears, but the story isn't really selling any character to me right now.
Yeah, Yamato has a lot of potential, and he asking to go on the ship shows a strong desire to join the crew. But, at the same time, he still lacks some things I expect from a main character. To me, right now, all he did is glue together many threads from Wano. He explained Ace's action in Wano, he's bringing info from Oden to the present, he gave Momonosuke the journal that's rightfully his, but he himself has been barely explored. He carries a lot of mystery regarding his origins and relationship to his dad, but right now I can't say if those revelations will elevate him from secondary to main character.
In a way, I feel towards him a lot of what I felt towards Carrot in WCI. Their stories aren't the same, of course, but Carrot also had a lot of promise and, so far, hasn't realised that potential.
I don't outright discard anyone joining, but I also don't see anyone really being the center of the narrative. Is Yamato important? No doubt about that. But that alone doesn't make him a strong candidate. Law is important, Kin'emon and Momonosuke were important, Rebecca and Kyros were important, Pudding was important, Bege was important.
Yamato wanting to go with Luffy may be a big in-your-face hint. But it can also be misdirection. Whatever character arc Yamato has ahead may still change his perspective on a lot of things.
I suppose Yamato holding Kaido off not only will lend itself to more background development, but also shows how crucial Yamato could be to Luffy's journey, in light of Luffy losing Round 2 and it now seeming as if Yamato is playing a crucial role in preventing Kaido from hurting anyone else like how he hurt Kinemon, perhaps throwing back to Chopper attempting to hold off Big Mom back at Whole Cake.
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I suppose Yamato holding Kaido off not only will lend itself to more background development, but also shows how crucial Yamato could be to Luffy's journey, in light of Luffy losing Round 2 and it now seeming as if Yamato is playing a crucial role in preventing Kaido from hurting anyone else like how he hurt Kinemon, perhaps throwing back to Chopper attempting to hold off Big Mom back at Whole Cake.
I'm expecting Yamato to be further developed during his confrontation with Kaido, but how much it will flesh out his crewmate potential remains to be seen.
About being crucial to Luffy's journey, there's a lot of secondary characters that fit that description. Actually, it's reinforced several times that Luffy's greatest ability is to gather people as allies. There's many arcs in the past in which some secondary character showed up to help at a decisive moment. For instance, without Lola and the Rolling Pirates, Moria would have won on Thriller Bark. Same about Bon Kurei saving Luffy in Impel Down, or Ivankov helping and boosting him in both Impel Down and Marineford. One Piece has too many awesome secondary characters, so when another one is introduced, it's easy to consider it a new potential crewmate.
I'm looking forward to Yamato's fight with Kaido. That's the best chance for us to know both characters better, IMO.
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Carrot being the "only Rabbit Girl" means little when she looks like every other female mink.
Wanda's Sulong being shown alongside hers really shows how generic Carrot is. She simply doesn't stand out. It's clear Oda didn't put much thought into her design and abilities.
Especially now that Nami is as associated with electricity as ever, even having a living lightning cloud as a partner.
And we already have Chopper for an ultimate form transformation, except hers is incredibly situational too.
Are you sure you aren't referring to Yamato? Between him and Carrot, it appears to me that more thought went into Carrot and her sulong form than Yamato. Literally, take Nami, give her horns and then other physical traits from Kaido and Oden plus rainbow hair and you have Yamato. Seriously, count the number of features that we've seen on other characters. It's not a knock against the character, just the design, which isn't nearly unique enough if he ends up joining.
You can't say the same for base Carrot at least. She's the only female character that looks like she does, which is still more than enough to set her apart from other characters in the series. She's also the only female mink with white fur if my memory serves correctly. Nami uses lightning and other weather-related skills. Carrot uses electricity. Yamato's weapon and fighting technique are exact replicas of Kaido's, even down to the names. "It's clear Oda didn't put much thought into her design and abilities." I agree.
Chopper is not a mink, but yes. He can transform. Luffy can transform. Franky can transform.
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I'm expecting Yamato to be further developed during his confrontation with Kaido, but how much it will flesh out his crewmate potential remains to be seen.
About being crucial to Luffy's journey, there's a lot of secondary characters that fit that description. Actually, it's reinforced several times that Luffy's greatest ability is to gather people as allies. There's many arcs in the past in which some secondary character showed up to help at a decisive moment. For instance, without Lola and the Rolling Pirates, Moria would have won on Thriller Bark. Same about Bon Kurei saving Luffy in Impel Down, or Ivankov helping and boosting him in both Impel Down and Marineford. One Piece has too many awesome secondary characters, so when another one is introduced, it's easy to consider it a new potential crewmate.
I'm looking forward to Yamato's fight with Kaido. That's the best chance for us to know both characters better, IMO.
Seeing as how Yamato became close with one of Luffy’s brothers, knows about the end of his dream, and is going up against an enemy he lost to, that probably makes Yamato more unique already, not even counting whatever ends up happening with the dawn of the world.
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Are you sure you aren't referring to Yamato? Between him and Carrot, it appears to me that more thought went into Carrot and her sulong form than Yamato. Literally, take Nami, give her horns and then other physical traits from Kaido and Oden plus rainbow hair and you have Yamato. Seriously, count the number of features that we've seen on other characters. It's not a knock against the character, just the design, which isn't nearly unique enough if he ends up joining.
You can't say the same for base Carrot at least. She's the only female character that looks like she does, which is still more than enough to set her apart from other characters in the series. She's also the only female mink with white fur if my memory serves correctly. Nami uses lightning and other weather-related skills. Carrot uses electricity. Yamato's weapon and fighting technique are exact replicas of Kaido's, even down to the names. "It's clear Oda didn't put much thought into her design and abilities." I agree.
Chopper is not a mink, but yes. He can transform. Luffy can transform. Franky can transform.
That's an incredibly specific description and I can't believe the discussion is boiling down to this. Your argument is not good because you keep negatively nitpicking aspects of a certain character while doing the same for another, but framing it as positive, to prove a point.
By your own "Carrot is the only female Mink with with white fur" logic, I can easily apply the same logic for Yamato, the only "Multicolor-haired, two-meter tall horned person in the series". White fur by itself is not a big deal since Bepo and Miyagi have it. Carrot being female doesn't change much (especially considering that we only know 4-5 named female Minks: Carrot, Wanda, Tristan and Milky). Plus, it's an useless visual cue for a mostly black & white manga, anyway.
It's also difficult to agree that much thought went into Carrot's Sulong when Wanda's follows the same archetype.
This shot very much tells me that Oda doesn't really view Carrot's Sulong as special or unique. It's just the typical "males look like monsters, females look like sex models" trope, I guess.
Again, compare with Jinbe, the only Fish-Man in the series so far to display secret techniques. That's how I know the character is special among his kind. Yamato at least has the potential to end up the same, since his DF power is being kept on hold for now.
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That's an incredibly specific description and I can't believe the discussion is boiling down to this. Your argument is not good because you keep negatively nitpicking aspects of a certain character while doing the same for another, but framing it as positive, to prove a point.
By your own "Carrot is the only female Mink with with white fur" logic, I can easily apply the same logic for Yamato, the only "Multicolor-haired, two-meter tall horned person in the series". White fur by itself is not a big deal since Bepo and Miyagi have it. Carrot being female doesn't change much (especially considering that we only know 4-5 named female Minks: Carrot, Wanda, Tristan and Milky). Plus, it's an useless visual cue for a mostly black & white manga, anyway.
It's also difficult to agree that much thought went into Carrot's Sulong when Wanda's follows the same archetype.
https://i.imgur.com/R99ktLS.png
This shot very much tells me that Oda doesn't really view Carrot's Sulong as special or unique. It's just the typical "males look like monsters, females look like sex models" trope, I guess.
Again, compare with Jinbe, the only Fish-Man in the series so far to display secret techniques. That's how I know the character is special among his kind. Yamato at least has the potential to end up the same, since his DF power is being kept on hold for now.
It is getting a little tiresome when people keep using Oda’s shortcoming of not liking too many female faces against him to justify ignoring the rest of the design, as if that’s seriously going to get in Oda’s way of having people join.
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It's also really disingenuous to say Yamato dresses like Oden when the only thing they have in common is the nio-dasuki.
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That's an incredibly specific description and I can't believe the discussion is boiling down to this. Your argument is not good because you keep negatively nitpicking aspects of a certain character while doing the same for another, but framing it as positive, to prove a point.
By your own "Carrot is the only female Mink with with white fur" logic, I can easily apply the same logic for Yamato, the only "Multicolor-haired, two-meter tall horned person in the series". White fur by itself is not a big deal since Bepo and Miyagi have it. Carrot being female doesn't change much (especially considering that we only know 4-5 named female Minks: Carrot, Wanda, Tristan and Milky). Plus, it's an useless visual cue for a mostly black & white manga, anyway.
It's also difficult to agree that much thought went into Carrot's Sulong when Wanda's follows the same archetype.
https://i.imgur.com/R99ktLS.png
This shot very much tells me that Oda doesn't really view Carrot's Sulong as special or unique. It's just the typical "males look like monsters, females look like sex models" trope, I guess.
Again, compare with Jinbe, the only Fish-Man in the series so far to display secret techniques. That's how I know the character is special among his kind. Yamato at least has the potential to end up the same, since his DF power is being kept on hold for now.
You actually brought up how "generic" you consider Carrot's design, but you aren't willing to admit that Yamato is essentially a combination of three prominent characters? Which characters can you mix and match to get someone that looks like Carrot? And the sulong design has similar characteristics for all minks. Of course, their designs will share similar traits. Now compare the Carrot that you see 99.9% of the time to the Wanda that you see 99.9% of the time. I did it for you.
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So why are you comparing character designs that we don't see 99.9% of the time? Let's compare the 99.9% of the time that we do see for Yamato (the 0.01% would be the DF version we've yet to see) to other characters.
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When comparing characters, let's be honest and focus on the designs that we'll see 99.9% of the time. If you do that, you'll notice how one is more unique than another. And I'm talking purely about the uniqueness of the designs that we see the vast majority of the time, not special circumstances. -
100% after the last chapter.
It was pretty high before that, but its a sealed deal now.
I understand if others still need the devil fruit and flashback, those are what I was waiting on the last few months before going all in, but Yamato just blatantly declaring that he WILL travel with Luffy and showing that much faith and belief in him?
It's done.
Here’s that Jolly Roger I owe you. And anyone’s free to use it how they wish:
HQ and Club-Less Versions:
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!Now’s probably a good time to talk about what I do like about Yamato. While Carrot is still who I’m betting on, I’ll be happy should Yamato be the one.
First, he’s very loyal. He loves what Oden stood for, and is determined to see his dream of opening Wano through. So much so that he’s willing to go against his own father to do it. He lived in constant fear of those cuffs and of his father’s control, but still stuck to his guns about Oden and wanting to sail the seas.
Yamato is also very progressive as a character. He’s opened me to a lot of things I didn’t know so well about the LGBT+ community, and I respect his choice to be a man. Doesn’t matter how he looks or dresses, even if something changes later, I’m still comfortable calling him what he wants to be called.
In terms of strength, Yamato’s hard to beat. Able to withstand rocket launchers, a wicked swing, possible Conqueror’s Haki. And whatever fruit power he has, it’s bound to only add to his formidable skills.
And finally, it’s amazing how dynamically he’s shaken up the story in such a short time. Saying he’s going on Luffy’s ship twice now, that does point to Oda having a solid plan in mind for him. I still have my reservations, but it’s still a major point in Yamato’s favor that Oda chose to spell it out like that. Then there’s how much Yamato has shaken up everything around him, getting Momo to safety, taking on both Ulti and Kaido himself, clearly admiring the Straw Hats and Luffy in particular for what he learned from Ace.
There’s a lot to like about Yamato. I’ll have no problem accepting him into the fold should the time come. Just know that whatever else I may say in our debates to come, I have total props for Yamato being as successful as he is.
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You actually brought up how "generic" you consider Carrot's design, but you aren't willing to admit that Yamato is essentially a combination of three prominent characters? Which characters can you mix and match to get someone that looks like Carrot? And the sulong design has similar characteristics for all minks. Of course, their designs will share similar traits. Now compare the Carrot that you see 99.9% of the time to the Wanda that you see 99.9% of the time. I did it for you.
! https://i.imgur.com/utXiO9M.png
https://i.imgur.com/lLRJedB.pngSo why are you comparing character designs that we don't see 99.9% of the time? Let's compare the 99.9% of the time that we do see for Yamato (the 0.01% would be the DF version we've yet to see) to other characters.
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When comparing characters, let's be honest and focus on the designs that we'll see 99.9% of the time. If you do that, you'll notice how one is more unique than another. And I'm talking purely about the uniqueness of the designs that we see the vast majority of the time, not special circumstances.Might as well say Robin is Nami with a slant nose. Again, I doubt Oda cares to have this get in the way of who joins. lol
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and put himself in a situation where he now needs an actual, stated good reason not to join at the end of the arc, while carrot is still waiting for an actual, stated good reason for joining at all.
This statement is gold.
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I'm not sure how "seeing the world" for Carrot would be any different for Yamato. Her main motivations isn't solely focused on defeating Pero. If it were and that would resolve her character arc, then Oda probably would've done it by now. He had her lose to Pero for a reason.
That reason was she never stood a chance. Also keep in mind she had help from Wanda who is probably a better fighter. Besides that, there's a reason he didn't even depict the fight with Pero and that was cuz it wasnt important enough to include in the manga.
If the only thing Carrot related is why Pedro's words came to her at that time its really not a lot. She has no other motivations.
The "more" for the character that is left doesn't seem to be a lot.
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My point is people pointing out interactions with the crew are seemingly glossing over everything that happened between Carrot and the SHs for those 200 chapters that you referenced. By comparison, Yamato has had the least amount of interactions with the SHs between their intro and the current chapter. After debuting almost 40 chapters ago, how many has he actually spent in panels with members of the crew so far? That's why I was originally skeptical. It's like Oda has intentionally decided to have him avoid the SHs. Remember when he made it up to the roof in like one chapter? How many SHs did he have to pass on the way up and why didn't any of them even get shown on panel with him as he ran past? And what "juicy" interactions are you referring to? The one where he said he knew Ace and was then subsequently called by the wrong name?
LOL. You wanted Oda to waste time and panels showing Yamato get to the roof top and other strawhats reactions of a person running by? Really? All for the who is that person reaction?
Pretty sure Oda didn't seem that a priority or issue of importance at this point in the raid. Yamato's conflict with Kaido was much more important.
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I think one of the things that really dashed any possibility for Carrot was the fact that she was never immediately tied to the conflict of the arc. For the other members of the crew, the main conflict for their respective arcs had personal relevance, and its resolution meant something for them. Saving Zoro from execution, saving Usopp’s village and Kaya, defending Baratie, freeing Nami and Cocoyashi from Arlong, driving Wapol out of drum and defending Hiriluk’s will, rescuing Robin and Franky from being taken by the World Government to activate/build Pluton, defeating Moria to return Brook’s shadow to him, helping Jimbei defend Fishman Island. And now liberating Yamato from Kaido. That’s what allows those characters to have major focus in the arcs they join, that the conflict has an added layer to them. Carrot doesn’t really have anything similar to that. She’s been treated like an accessory to the conflict in that way.
Main thing I've been saying about Carrot and why she won't join. Never got that secondary protagonist treatment. Would've been different if she had any conflict and subplot with Big Mom predating the want to rescue Sanji but that was given to Pedro.
Plus even now any plot related stuff that could've been applied to Carrot just to use her and give her screen time has all been given to Yamato.
There's just a clear difference in how these characters are treated after being introduced.
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It is getting a little tiresome when people keep using Oda’s shortcoming of not liking too many female faces against him to justify ignoring the rest of the design, as if that’s seriously going to get in Oda’s way of having people join.
[qimg]https://i.ibb.co/zXTwmd8/B3777-CE6-4436-4785-8422-8-F25-B8-DEA2-BC.jpg[/qimg]
That's not even a good comparison shot, since it's missing the height thing.
Also that Nami changes her hairstyle every arc (most notably when she had to share page time with Pudding) There's a reason she's wearing a flower in her hair this arc and got a giant forehead bandaid early on.
Those are the two most recent pictures from the same angle. Oda's even changing where Nami's hair parts so its more on the side than the center, which it wasn't doing 40 chapters ago. So he changed Nami subtly too, which I didn't notice till now. Plus their outfits are opposite colors.
It also leaves out that the most striking thing about Yamato is in color, but in a mostly black and white series that's not really fair. And that was also chapter 1 Yamato, Oda's subtly refined the design since. I agree the first month or two it was too much Nami-face, especially in extreme closeups and black and white and making angry faces, it was the main thing that kept me going in early on, but Oda's done a few things subtle things since.
Here’s that Jolly Roger I owe you. And anyone’s free to use it how they wish:
Neat! He hasn't officially joined yet though. Just because I'm fully convinced doesn't mean anything.
Might as well say Robin is Nami with a slant nose. Again, I doubt Oda cares to have this get in the way of who joins. lol
[qimg]https://i.ibb.co/g9J913h/C5-FFBE52-ED5-C-4146-8717-52-C949-A691-B4.jpg[/qimg]
That's a little unfair. Robin was drastically different from any female face design when she first showed up.
20 years and 10,000 drawings later and she's simplified and homogenized a lot, so they're both a lot more similar now, but she was drastically different at the start.
Also the anime went the extra mile and gave her a tan.
Compare them nowadays though and you'd be hardpressed to tell Robin apart from Hancock or Viola. But if they shared an extended scene Oda would be sure to give Robin some sunglasses to put in her hair or something to help push them apart.
So yeah, it'd be nice if Yamato had a more striking jawline or stronger cheekbones or a different nose or something… but he'd end up looking similar in a few years anyway. Oda's putting in the effort to make them visually distinct, he's clearly aware he had the designs a little close originally since he's even changed up Nami's look over the last year.
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Yamato's most distinguishing feature aside from the obvious height and horns are by far his eyes. There's something alluring and unique about them, the size of the pupils compared to the irises, the sharpness of them, the tiny little lashes as the bottom of the eye, the lighter shade and yes even the color. They're not always done consistently but in the shots that matter, they always look very striking. Like Oda is making a very clear effort to make them distinguishable.
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20 years and 10,000 drawings later and she's simplified and homogenized a lot, so they're both a lot more similar now, but she was drastically different at the start.
Also the anime went the extra mile and gave her a tan.
Compare them nowadays though and you'd be hardpressed to tell Robin apart from Hancock or Viola. But if they shared an extended scene Oda would be sure to give Robin some sunglasses to put in her hair or something to help push them apart.
So yeah, it'd be nice if Yamato had a more striking jawline or stronger cheekbones or a different nose or something… but he'd end up looking similar in a few years anyway. Oda's putting in the effort to make them visually distinct, he's clearly aware he had the designs a little close originally since he's even changed up Nami's look over the last year.
It is a bit shocking to me looking at that early days sketch book of Oda's and seeing some of the female faces he hasn't used.
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That's not even a good comparison shot, since it's missing the height thing.
https://i.ibb.co/6gvZ0FF/B3777-CE6-4436-4785-8422-8-F25-B8-DEA2-BC.jpg
Also that Nami changes her hairstyle every arc (most notably when she had to share page time with Pudding) There's a reason she's wearing a flower in her hair this arc and got a giant forehead bandaid early on.
https://i.ibb.co/T1g9PTK/namiyam.jpg
Those are the two most recent pictures from the same angle. Oda's even changing where Nami's hair parts so its more on the side than the center, which it wasn't doing 40 chapters ago. So he changed Nami subtly too, which I didn't notice till now. Plus their outfits are opposite colors.
It also leaves out that the most striking thing about Yamato is in color, but in a mostly black and white series that's not really fair. And that was also chapter 1 Yamato, Oda's subtly refined the design since. I agree the first month or two it was too much Nami-face, especially in extreme closeups and black and white and making angry faces, it was the main thing that kept me going in early on, but Oda's done a few things subtle things since.
Neat! He hasn't officially joined yet though. Just because I'm fully convinced doesn't mean anything.
That's a little unfair. Robin was drastically different from any female face design when she first showed up.
20 years and 10,000 drawings later and she's simplified and homogenized a lot, so they're both a lot more similar now, but she was drastically different at the start.
Also the anime went the extra mile and gave her a tan.
Compare them nowadays though and you'd be hardpressed to tell Robin apart from Hancock or Viola. But if they shared an extended scene Oda would be sure to give Robin some sunglasses to put in her hair or something to help push them apart.
So yeah, it'd be nice if Yamato had a more striking jawline or stronger cheekbones or a different nose or something… but he'd end up looking similar in a few years anyway. Oda's putting in the effort to make them visually distinct, he's clearly aware he had the designs a little close originally since he's even changed up Nami's look over the last year.
If nothing can stop you from saying that Yamato is a “horny Nami” then nothing can stop others from saying that Robin is a “slant nose Nami”. lol
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Neat! He hasn't officially joined yet though. Just because I'm fully convinced doesn't mean anything.
Our bet was that if Carrot didn't join at the end of WCI, I'd make a symbol for who you think will join next. Since you said you think Yamato is going to, that's who I drew. But I'm glad you like it!
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@Zik:
It is a bit shocking to me looking at that early days sketch book of Oda's and seeing some of the female faces he hasn't used.
Oda admitted that the amount of beautiful female faces he likes drawing is limited, and perhaps goes to show that everyone has flaws and shortcomings, including successful artists such as himself. I don’t think that should take away from how he makes designs as a whole though.
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Oda admitted that the amount of beautiful female faces he likes drawing is limited, and perhaps goes to show that everyone has flaws and shortcomings, including successful artists such as himself. I don’t think that should take away from how he makes designs as a whole though.
[qimg]https://i.ibb.co/sqyDrWw/B975-C44-C-52-B7-410-A-BD6-C-9-C4344-ED604-D.jpg[/qimg]
He still had a couple unique "beautiful" faces i saw from sketches he hasn't used. I should've saved the pic.
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Might as well say Robin is Nami with a slant nose. Again, I doubt Oda cares to have this get in the way of who joins. lol
https://i.ibb.co/g9J913h/C5-FFBE52-ED5-C-4146-8717-52-C949-A691-B4.jpg
Night and day. If people want to know why I didn't consider Yamato a legit NN early on, it was because of the face. Looking at Nami and Robin, the difference couldn't be more stark. These were female designs from just the last arc. None of them resemble Nami at all and if Yamato had a face like any of them, I would've been more inclined to think that the possibility for a NN was there.
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Night and day. If people want to know why I didn't consider Yamato a legit NN early on, it was because of the face. Looking at Nami and Robin, the difference couldn't be more stark. These were female designs from just the last arc. None of them resemble Nami at all and if Yamato had a face like any of them, I would've been more inclined to think that the possibility for a NN was there.
From what I’ve understood, Oda tends to make slim, young female faces look more distinct if they’re more antagonistic or rough, like with Zala, Muret, Kalifa, Perona, or Ginrummy. He might not even consider a lot of the Charlotte women to fall under his description of “beautiful woman” in that respect, because he apparently doesn’t consider Amazon Lily women to traditionally fall under “beautiful woman” aside from Hancock.
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Night and day. If people want to know why I didn't consider Yamato a legit NN early on, it was because of the face. Looking at Nami and Robin, the difference couldn't be more stark. These were female designs from just the last arc. None of them resemble Nami at all and if Yamato had a face like any of them, I would've been more inclined to think that the possibility for a NN was there.
Custard, Broyé, and Myukuru all look like variations of Nami to me; Nami with a smaller nose, angry Nami, and brown Nami.
Cinnamon looks like a brown haired Miss Wednesday.
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From what I’ve understood, Oda tends to make young, slim female faces look more distinct if they’re more antagonistic or rough, like with Zala, Muret, Kalifa, Perona, or Ginrummy. He might not even consider a lot of the Charlotte women to fall under his description of “beautiful woman” in that respect, because he apparently doesn’t consider Amazon Lily women to fall under “beautiful woman” aside from Hancock.
https://i.ibb.co/bN2c5rx/EB5-DCE16-2110-4-DF2-B3-F0-B5-CFFA554-B62.png
I kinda laughed to how much he struggles to draw beauties when most of his female characters actually ARE beauties, and some more than Hancock and Shirahoshi. I mean, it is subjective and thus he should free himself into doing it as there will be people loving this or that character.
Beside this I find kinda awkward how he CAN'T draw a lot of different girls as he HAVE to do them beautiful = perfect. A lot of his most beautiful male characters are arguably fair and fair away from perfection rules and that is the best part of them. I won't mind a beautiful woman with Marco's hair, Kid's face scars or some Bartolomeo like fangs: he'd avoid such a stress and put even more variety to charas. Heck, I find Porche a top tier cutie and she almost has USOPP'S NOSE!
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You gotta be impressed with Carrot supporters, there’s no give in them
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@Zik:
Custard, Broyé, and Myukuru all look like variations of Nami to me; Nami with a smaller nose, angry Nami, and brown Nami.
Cinnamon looks like a brown haired Miss Wednesday.
Coincidentally, they still look less like Nami than Yamato. :sad:
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You gotta be impressed with Carrot supporters, there’s no give in them
Some have conceded when Yamato made his declaration in front of Kaido. Others, well… We all have been tempted by denial at some point in our lives
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Some have conceded when Yamato made his declaration in front of Kaido. Others, well… We all have been tempted by denial at some point in our lives
I wonder how differently people would feel and how much support would be shown for there being new crew mates in general if Carrot would have said to Kaido “I’m going to sail the seas with Luffy after he gets back!”
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I wonder how differently people would feel and how much support would be shown for there being new crew mates in general if Carrot would have said to Kaido “I’m going to sail the seas with Luffy after he gets back!”
It would've been jarring if that had come after being irrelevant for so long but it would've been an undeniable point in Carrot's favor. Just with an aftertaste of "why now and why did she get nothing for so long"
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I wonder how differently people would feel and how much support would be shown for there being new crew mates in general if Carrot would have said to Kaido “I’m going to sail the seas with Luffy after he gets back!”
I'd feel Carrot saying that after having a lot of adventures with a crew and knowing what's like to be with them would have way more weight than Yamato deciding it before he has that same experience.
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About Yamato declaring straight and forthly his will of saiiling with Luffy… Carrot isn't that type.
Carrot sneeked on the Sunny when they left Zou, not asking or requesting anyone. IF Carrot is going to join, I expect something that would parody that scene, with the whole crew ready to left Wano, all of them beginning to party for new nakama Yamato and then "wha-t?! Carrot is near Luffy chomping his ear and no one noticed it? Yamato doesn't know her and think she's an enemy to fight? So hilarious, kampa-i!" like scene.
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About Yamato declaring straight and forthly his will of saiiling with Luffy… Carrot isn't that type.
Carrot sneeked on the Sunny when they left Zou, not asking or requesting anyone. IF Carrot is going to join, I expect something that would parody that scene, with the whole crew ready to left Wano, all of them beginning to party for new nakama Yamato and then "wha-t?! Carrot is near Luffy chomping his ear and no one noticed it? Yamato doesn't know her and think she's an enemy to fight? So hilarious, kampa-i!" like scene.
Yeah, in that case, Carrot resorting to sneaking on board while Yamato declares out loud and upfront her interest in sailing with Luffy on his ship could showcase how different the two characters are.
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You gotta be impressed with Carrot supporters, there’s no give in them
Well, again:
@Shift:When Oda's done with Carrot, I'll be done with Carrot. Since even after over 5 years he's not, I'm not.
I'm still waiting to see what Carrot's going to do in the face of her defeat, with Pedro's words still in her mind. To me, that takes precedence over anything else. I'm just saying I'll be fine whether I'm right, or whether I'm stuck with whatever avatar Folhas picks for me.
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You gotta be impressed with Carrot supporters, there’s no give in them
We haven't had our hearts ripped out yet, which means we're still alive. There's no reason to give up at this point. Oda is perfectly capable of changing things up. That being said, I think I've made my point on where I stand, so I'll be taking a break from this thread until something significant comes up.
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Imo right now, joining chances are Yamato > nobody > Tama > Carrot
Yamato is the obvious candidate. But is so obvious that could also be a red herring. But then we simply don't have any strong options, imo. Tama has a lot of panel time, but has a few obvious shortcomings that severely limit her chances. And Carrot is a character who is only in this list because of the popularity of her strawhat candidate theory, because her role in the story is almost none now. She doesn't have better chances than say, Drake, Marco or the scabbards. She is the remains of an epic moment that happened 12 volumes ago (the sulong one), with a simple character arc that needs to be finished just like a bunch of other current ones do. It's just too little.
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Imo right now, joining chances are Yamato > nobody > Tama > Carrot
Yamato is the obvious candidate. But is so obvious that could also be a red herring. But then we simply don't have any strong options, imo. Tama has a lot of panel time, but has a few obvious shortcomings that severely limit her chances. And Carrot is a character who is only in this list because of the popularity of her strawhat candidate theory, because her role in the story is almost none now. She doesn't have better chances than say, Drake, Marco or the scabbards. She is the remains of an epic moment that happened 12 volumes ago (the sulong one), with a simple character arc that needs to be finished just like a bunch of other current ones do. It's just too little.
I feel that Tama would be more likely if she already had the occupation of kunoichi with enough training behind that title. She might be like Koby by staying in Wano after Luffy frees it from suffering and train until she's old enough to adventure out on her own.
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Coincidentally, they still look less like Nami than Yamato. :sad:
Not really. One is Nami but brown and the other is Nami when angry.
They don't look less like Nami at all of we're just going by face.
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It would've been jarring if that had come after being irrelevant for so long but it would've been an undeniable point in Carrot's favor. Just with an aftertaste of "why now and why did she get nothing for so long"
So jarring I'd be convinced I had somehow missed a dozen or so Wano chapters where the necessary plot progression and character development was done to lead up to a moment.
Otherwise it would make no sense to me lol.
Cuz its really like why is she even saying this to Kaido?
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About Yamato declaring straight and forthly his will of saiiling with Luffy… Carrot isn't that type.
Carrot sneeked on the Sunny when they left Zou, not asking or requesting anyone. IF Carrot is going to join, I expect something that would parody that scene, with the whole crew ready to left Wano, all of them beginning to party for new nakama Yamato and then "wha-t?! Carrot is near Luffy chomping his ear and no one noticed it? Yamato doesn't know her and think she's an enemy to fight? So hilarious, kampa-i!" like scene.
This is such a bright and sunny everybody wins take on the matter.
A scene like that would probably work pre-timeskip or like if Zou was introduced before Dressrosa and then that scene happened after Dressrosa was over.
Fanfic wise or what could've been, wouldn't be hard to connect smiles, minks, and Doffy together instead of Jack.
But thinking of all the potential story lines to give Carrot that weren't done just screams to me Oda doesn't intend for the character to join.
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Greg's take on the missing T-Rex fruit:
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I would love a T-Rex for Yamato, if only because it would be much harder to cutify/feminize him with such a fruit.
But I'm counting on a feminine and elegant transformation (White Tiger, Kirin etc.)
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A T-Rex for a giant prince Loki would be cool. Cuz the extra size a zoan gives to a giant might make him as Big as Oars and Oars jr.
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Godzilla aint no T-Rex.
Besides, Queen's hybrid already ressembles the classic version of it
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I would love a T-Rex for Yamato, if only because it would be much harder to cutify/feminize him with such a fruit.
But I'm counting on a feminine and elegant transformation (White Tiger, Kirin etc.)
This artist has the right idea