Well, the Sea Kings didn't mention anything about Momo either, and he was right there in Roger's ship.
Momo didn't have his power back then, Luffy did. So the chances that they recognize Luffy as their second king were higher than with Momo.
Well, the Sea Kings didn't mention anything about Momo either, and he was right there in Roger's ship.
Momo didn't have his power back then, Luffy did. So the chances that they recognize Luffy as their second king were higher than with Momo.
So..
Is Uranus the voice of all things device controller thingie, and momo the key to that?
Pluton can destroy the red line (and every ship or piece of land that it manages to fire at), Poseidon can end the danger of the calm belts (and sick the sea kings at anyone), the two parts of the x that splits the world, and marks the spot, could have been created, or be intended to destroy, these barriers.
Luffy being in love with this adventure makes me doubt that the (physical) world is intended to be a prisson to be crushed in the name of freedom, but maybe a little destruction? For Laboon? and for the fishfolk and merfolk to raise their island up to where Marijoa used to be? to make the tequila wolf bridge pointless?
So, back to the barriers, simple 3D would say that the barrier in that case would be gravity, but they also had to challenge themselves to go down to the sea, where seakings, again, underwater volcanoes, sheer darkness, and many more dangers that can't be destroyed by one device, and seem more likely to be natural than the other 2 barriers.
In the other way, the grand line and the red line form the x to the treasure, so what if they aren't barriers but the treasure's X? and what does one use to also follow the treasure? The log pose. Uranus being magnetism.. I dunno how I feel about this, I care very little about Kidd already, it would mean that he has the key to one of the secrets of the world, but it would mirror law having the OP fruit and the key to immortality.
The final thing that guides to Laughtale is knowledge, the knowledge that had to be inscripted in undestructible stone blocks, witch secret's were kept by a clan who's two relevant members we meet have been proficient on the "voice of all things". The strange nature of the blank century, combined with this world that is on its current state split enough to be able to sustain pocket civilizations on hundreds or thousands of islands, so no one on this world, except some people with the "voice of all things" can actually remember what happened for enough time to write some memoirs? Also Zou's command, enthralled for who knows how many years, and only Momo could shake him out of it. I'm thinking of mind control here, but in a nasty way, like how the failed smiles.
Do we know wich one of the ancient weapons did shiki think that Roger had? Cuz Roger visited Poseidon's phoneglyph (and no one in Alabasta acted like Roger went there), but Momo was in roger's ship..
Also, Enel made Maxim somehow in the image of Pluton, but using lighting instead of quakes (somehow) as its power source, just because enel is proficient in mantra and the quake fruit is the one thing besides the ancient weapons (and shirahoshi's power before it was revealed to be a weapon) to get that description.
More than an idea.
I don't think anyone here would argue that Big Mom necessarily intended a killing blow. She could have. And it's within her personality to have the mind to do so. (Even though she'll probably be fam one day) But the point is, she absolutely should have been aiming to do a, "Stay the FU** down!!!" attack. If she has an ounce of battle sense and her motivation to protect Tama was true, she should have made sure she hit Ulti with something she wouldn't soon be getting up from without some serious medical assistance and down time.
It's not about making her look tough/weak.
It's that it would make her appear as something far, far worse.
Incompetent.
Uh I feel like Big Mom has looked very incompetent ever since the strawhats blew her castle, stole her poneglyph, beat her first mate, hijacked her transportation system and escaped with only one death (not inflicted by her) with a group of 7 people.
Uh I feel like Big Mom has looked very incompetent ever since the strawhats blew her castle, stole her poneglyph, beat her first mate, hijacked her transportation system and escaped with only one death (not inflicted by her) with a group of 7 people.
You are forgetting to count Caesar Clown, the Firetank Pirates, Sun Pirates, Germa, Pekoms and even two of her daughters (not counting Chiffon, as I consider her part of the Firetanks) in that "group of 7 people".
The Straw Hats had a lot of help, like they always do. That's their special power, to gather allies that make a huge difference.
Not to mention the sheer dumb luck that a nuke was put in the Tamatebako, and that it went off at the perfect moment.
It's a valid point of criticism, but given the setup, not one that I think holds up.
In some incompetence involved? Yup. It's there.
But the real question is, does the story justify it? I'd argue, yes.
I think a great deal of its stems not so much from incompetence as a result of inexperience. Quite the opposite. Her faults in that arc are all a result of her long and storied experience.
The scenario you described above sounds preposterous. Imagine how that would sound if you told that to Mom. She'd laugh at how absurd it sounds. At the very heart of her territory, a chain of islands with no chance of escape or even unwatched entry, Mom, surrounded by military might equivalent to that of only another Emperor, is assaulted while surrounded by her family of skilled warriors.
Now filter in her years of experience which have slowly become years of being comfortable in her position.
Yes, it sounds stupid. And it totally worked because nobody thought for even a second that anything like it was possible.
Oda's setup for Mom's overconfidence as her fault is all perfectly presented.
She didn't fail for lack of foresight, she failed for lack of thinking she needed foresight.
That is in fact exactly why if she messes up now, now is when it makes her look ignorant and like a poor leader. Her (deserved) overconfidence led to her being swindled on her own ground. If or when she underestimates what Luffy can do again, and doesn't take the situation seriously she's a fool.
Uh I feel like Big Mom has looked very incompetent ever since the strawhats blew her castle, stole her poneglyph, beat her first mate, hijacked her transportation system and escaped with only one death (not inflicted by her) with a group of 7 people.
Eh, I feel like Oda has told the story he has wanted to with Big Mom in a lot of ways and that it's been effective. Your examples actually make me feel that even more strongly. She's not incompetent, she's just going up against ta'veren. The Straw Hats didn't blow up her castle, even if they were involved with the whole thing, they had no agency in it actually occurring. The best that can be said is that they didn't tell her about it. As for stealing the poneglyph, they didn't. They got a rubbing on it, which mostly speaks to the fact that they were savvy enough to sneak in and take Brook back from her clutches (and that she wasn't able to tell that she didn't crush him, but a dummy). I'll give a slight incompetent to that whole situation.
As for beating her first mate, that's not incompetence at all, though in my opinion it does reflect badly on the makeup of her crew. The state of Tottoland is directly responsible for the how and why Katakuri had a facade of perfection. He covered Big Mom's imperfections and allowed her to play to her strengths, but the ideal of who Katakuri is lost to Luffy, which meant that the ideal of The Big Mom Pirates has been done since then as well.
I will give you the transportation system thing as an extension of fear not being an effective adhesive for a great crew. The Big Mom Pirates and The Beast Pirates are both at the pinnacle of crews because of the strength of Kaido and Big Mom, but their flaws are so great that only that overwhelming strength really keeps them together. They aren't incompetent, they're inefficient.
Big Mom was ready for the Straw Hats.
She wasn't ready for Capone and Jinbe betraying her. Despite that, she almost won before the Whole Cake Chateau blew up due to the convenient explosion of the tamatebako.
IMO, Katakuri also technically betrayed her, along with Brulee, Pound, Pekomamushi, Zeus, Pudding, and arguably Mont D'Or.
I mean I don't feel like WCI's invasion was badly written or that the SHs didn't deserve it. They are the most talented bunch of people in the story, after all.
I just feel like competence is not a concept I commonly associate with Big Mom. Strength? Of course. But it feels like her success was more a product of her being freaking invincible (she has the most natural born strength out of any character whose story we have seen so far) than of her ability to run an empire or make reasonable decisions. Even outside of WCI, Big Mom has been showcased as an unstable person who doesn't care about strategy that much. Her decision to punch Ulti and Page One at all says more against her than her failure to put them down permanently, considering they are supposed to be allies against the army currently trying to take them down.
Compare to Wano, where Orochi is showing a level of foresight and tactics unlike anything Big Mom and her crew have been able to do so far, outside of Katakuri. Even Kaido seems to have tighter defenses, even if they are in the form of some really tough dinosaurs.
My point is that Big Mom doesn't have to be personally competent because her crew is supposed to be. The problem is that her crew (and Tottoland) are ruled through fear and so they were vulnerable to issues that organizations ruled by fear run into. See Mont D'Or not revealing important info before the wedding or Katakuri (the perfect and future-sighted secondary leader of the crew) choosing to give up on the identity he had within the crew because of Luffy's ability to continually bounce back harder. Even still, I don't consider Big Mom to be any more incompetent than Luffy is. She has similar sorts of personality flaws and strengths that overcome them 999/1000 times.
Also Perospero has been a brilliant secondary commander next to Big Mom as well. He's only been slowed down by the unforeseeable and that's without Katakuri's foresight!
My point is that Big Mom doesn't have to be personally competent because her crew is supposed to be. The problem is that her crew (and Tottoland) are ruled through fear and so they were vulnerable to issues that organizations ruled by fear run into. See Mont D'Or not revealing important info before the wedding or Katakuri (the perfect and future-sighted secondary leader of the crew) choosing to give up on the identity he had within the crew because of Luffy's ability to continually bounce back harder. Even still, I don't consider Big Mom to be any more incompetent than Luffy is. She has similar sorts of personality flaws and strengths that overcome them 999/1000 times.
Also Perospero has been a brilliant secondary commander next to Big Mom as well. He's only been slowed down by the unforeseeable and that's without Katakuri's foresight!
By Mont-D'or, I think you mean Opera. Mont-D'or is the book guy. Opera is the cream guy that lied about Luffy and Nami dying and hiding Jinbe's betrayal.
Mont-D'or has been fairly competent so far. He was the one coordinating the efforts in WCI.
By Mont-D'or, I think you mean Opera. Mont-D'or is the book guy. Opera is the cream guy that lied about Luffy and Nami dying and hiding Jinbe's betrayal.
Mont-D'or has been fairly competent so far. He was the one coordinating the efforts in WCI.
Ah, I think I've just been running with that impression because he was the guy who was constantly surprised by the piling on of events towards the end of WCI. Opera was the one I was thinking of as a betrayer though. Thank you.
Mont dor the only thing that could have done better is to separate Luffy and Nami. Granted that would have been very effective, specially if one of them was still under Puddings original story, and only one of them gets rescued by Jimbe, but that is the whole chain reaction of that arc.
Eh on the Jinbe betraying BM thing, I'd also call that incompetence.Picture the scene. Jinbe comes to you and asks you to leave your crew and join the strawhats. You tell him if he tries to leave you will kill him. He says "ok never mind I will stay".This is a guy that should be watched out as a potential traitor and/or deserter now. Especially if the guy he wants to betray you for is now captured in your castle, which Jinbe has full access to. This was an incredible lack of foresight by the BM crew.I guess Greg's point that BM's failure was not expecting people to cross her is right here. But after you already had Luffy invade the island and beat Cracker and Jinbe try to leave your crew in the same day, I would maybe be a little more careful about that crew. There is this gap where almost everyone forgot about the strawhats which is pretty unforgivable from a tactical sense. Again, Orochi would be paying attention.
If I remember correctly Jimbei didn't tell Big Mom where he was leaving too when that roulette wheel came up. Mom didn't find out he intended to join Luffy until the epic cup scene. I believe Big Mom even stopped a subordinate or Homie for questioning what Jimbei even wanted to do with his life afterward. Though your over all point still stands.
Greg what is your opinion about the so called fan made monster Trio?
And I am not talking about the PL debate but about the dynamic.
Do you think Oda wants to change it or will keep it?
Monster Trio is not something made up by the fans, it's a term actually used during the series, by Nami and/or Usopp, iirc.
Usually when Oda makes those kind of statements he means it, like how Zoro always wanted a fire sword and now he knows how to cut fire, or how Nami is being called a witch since East Blue and now has a Clima Tact with a face on it.
So even with adding Jinbe to the team (and Yamato :ninja:), I'd bet that dynamic will stay the same.
Monster Trio is not something made up by the fans, it's a term actually used during the series, by Nami and/or Usopp, iirc.
Usually when Oda makes those kind of statements he means it, like how Zoro always wanted a fire sword and now he knows how to cut fire, or how Nami is being called a witch since East Blue and now has a Clima Tact with a face on it.
So even with adding Jinbe to the team (and Yamato :ninja:), I'd bet that dynamic will stay the same.
I think the "monster trio" name is from an old translation? I believe they just said "three monsters"… But I can't remember when or where that happened to check it out.
Monster Trio is not something made up by the fans, it's a term actually used during the series, by Nami and/or Usopp, iirc.
Usually when Oda makes those kind of statements he means it, like how Zoro always wanted a fire sword and now he knows how to cut fire, or how Nami is being called a witch since East Blue and now has a Clima Tact with a face on it.
So even with adding Jinbe to the team (and Yamato :ninja:), I'd bet that dynamic will stay the same.
Sanji fighting Queen while Jinbe fights Who's Who (though in fairness to Who's Who, he believes himself to be capable of defeating a Calamity) tells us all we need to know about whether or not Oda wants to maintain the dynamic. That's not to say that Jinbe couldn't potentially beat Queen as well, but more that at the end of the day, Oda does want the endgame of Zoro and Sanji continuing to be Luffy's top 2 fighters.
I guess the way Yamato's fight with Kaido is portrayed will give us a good idea about whether he will join the crew or not, depending on how well he'll hold up against Kaido by sheer strength. Zoro will always be the second strongest strawhat so Yamato cannot do better than him. Of course, a father child fight is a good opportunity for showing weaknesses that only family members might know so Yamato might put up a good fight by exploiting said weaknesses (à la Usopp vs Luffy).
Zoro fought Kaidou and Big Mom at the same time, and it was the dual mega attack he blocked that wounded him so badly, plus running some interference. . Him versus JUST Kaidou he might have done a little bit better. Also, Kaidou's already been worn down a bit from fighting all the scabbards, Zoro, Luffy, he's not at 100%.
Plus, Yams is probably just trying to keep Kaidou busy rather than actually beat him (he knows he can't) se that's a factor too.
So it's a flawed comparison no matter how well Yamato does.
Just for giggles and the '….whoa' factor, check out this post I made eleven years ago:
http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=26963&p=1551566&viewfull=1#post1551566
Just for giggles and the '….whoa' factor, check out this post I made eleven years ago:
http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=26963&p=1551566&viewfull=1#post1551566
Any idea why awakening hasn't played a role in this arc ? Doesn't seem it will either
@Joy:
Any idea why awakening hasn't played a role in this arc ? Doesn't seem it will either
I feel the entire saga was aiming at explaining haki, qhile awakening will be explored further in the future and provide Luffy’s final upgrade.
But I do expect to see someone (most likely Kaido, but may even be more than one character) show awakening during the raid.
Luffy should also awaken this arc. Gear 5 would be too repetitive. :ninja:
Luffy should also awaken this arc. Gear 5 would be too repetitive. :ninja:
I think there's zero setup for it happening. Also, we haven't explored Conqueror coating enough, and masterign it is this arc's upgrade.
Gotta say, after rereading Marineford, it really hit me that CoC is straight up something you're born with and not something that coincides with a person having the quality of a king. That's really kind of lame to me.
This idea from Greg on twitter sort of soothes the pain of bloodline haki. I would definitely be able to accept den den mushi being born with it, but the implication that Momo not only has it, but is demonstrating it through the voice of all things doesn't sit right with me.
I think there's zero setup for it happening. Also, we haven't explored Conqueror coating enough, and masterign it is this arc's upgrade.
There was also zero set up for gear 4. I don't think their is really more to explore in "conqueror coating"; Luffy just has to get better at using it like he has to get better at using armament and observation. But just like his upgrade in observation haki last arc didn't give him the victory against Katakuri, his upgrade in armanment and conquerors haki this arc wont give him the victory against Kaido. He needs a devil fruit upgrade for that.
There was also zero set up for gear 4.
Uh… there were 2 gears already and then the timeskip. Luffy creating a new gear was a surprise, but you can't say there was zero setup. Gears are a Luffy-only thing to begin with. Bonus points that Gear 4th relies on haki, which was what Luffy learned in the timeskip.
Awakening is a whole new concept that hasn't been explained yet. Just like haki was fairly mysterious until Rayleigh explained it and tauch Luffy how to use it, awakening is still waiting a proper moment for the SHs and us readers to understand it.
Gotta say, after rereading Marineford, it really hit me that CoC is straight up something you're born with and not something that coincides with a person having the quality of a king. That's really kind of lame to me.
Uh, I'm under the impression it is both things?
Awakening is a whole new concept that hasn't been explained yet. Just like haki was fairly mysterious until Rayleigh explained it and tauch Luffy how to use it, awakening is still waiting a proper moment for the SHs and us readers to understand it.
I don't think their is anymore to explain or understand about awakening than their is about devil fruits in general. Awakening is just an expansion of devil fruit ability. It can totally be framed as something that just happens sometimes like a "haki awakening", but if no one taught Luffy how to use his devil fruit to begin with then I don't see why anyone should teach him how to use his awakening.
Don't think anyone linked the latest column yet:
https://one-piece.com/special/greg/detail/20210612_1233.html?l=en
The Joyboy stuff is really interesting. Both the possibilities presented have a lot of story potential.
Lol what if Joy Boy is the Super Saiyan form equivalent for Will Of D users in One Piece :ninja:
Uh, I'm under the impression it is both things?
Can it be? It seems to me like you're born with it and that's that. We have at least one advantage of someone not really utilizing it to full effect before their death (Ace), but I feel like the idea that you're just born with it only serves one side of the overall One Piece story, the idea of destiny. To be honest, I hope some parts of that idea are recontextualized in the future, but the story isn't saying that, so it's a small hope. Anyway, the other half of the story is about the passing on of wills, and to me it seems like the will of a King (whatever that may mean) could be something that can be passed on in the right circumstances.
Coby, for example, would have been nothing but a feckless weakling if not meeting and being inspired by Luffy. If we found out he had CoC, many wouldn't bat an eye, but it would be strange to find out he was born with that capability as opposed to becoming a person with such a kingly disposition. I think of Momo, who to me hasn't displayed the qualities of a king, and if Greg is right, he has some mastery of CoC anyway because he was born that way. Maybe someone else might elucidate that he actually has displayed those qualities (as early as Zou), but I don't see it. Of course this is assuming Greg is right for the Momo example. Stil, to me it seems like Oda could have just as easily written CoC as not something inherent as not and lost nothing with it. The idea of destiny has been teased since Loguetown, but he's went bonkers on it since Sabaody and it's one of my least favorite aspects of the series.
For a long timme it seemed like anyone who was passionate enough and put themselves on the line enough could develop the qualities of a king… but it took serious work and countless near death experiences to reach it. That Zoro is learning it now is sort of reinforcing that.
At the same time, more and more its seeming like a "born with it" destiny thing and that kind of sucks given how much we're seeing it pop up in direct descendants.
Especially after the frozen straw hat and prophecies and Roger's group just going "whelp, 20 years too early, too bad." and... eh.
It's gone from being "one day SOMEONE will find the truth... and it'll probably be a D" to "someday the born destined child as seen by the sages and fortold 1000 years ago will rise in June 14, 2024 and bring with him..."
and I really hate that its been making that pivot... and for a while now.
WIll of D. by itself wasn't so bad because we'd seen a lot of people with it, but more and more...
CoC was never stated or hinted to be like something that anyone can acquire though. In story, it was considered that only one in a million would have that ability and unlike the other two, CoC cannot be trained as it grows stronger with the person. Unless I missed something.
Next thing we'll know; Vegapunk is now capable of giving regular mofos CoC by extracting it from someone who has it, with linage factor.
This cannot be trained is a bit weird to me. You canmake it stronger by getting stronger and luffy found a technique using it that give him a huge power up.
And that technique needs to be trained as Kaidou said Luffy didn't master it.
So i donkt really see the difference with a technique you can train
What is sure, is that no training can help you acquire it
Don't think anyone linked the latest column yet:
https://one-piece.com/special/greg/detail/20210612_1233.html?l=en
The Joyboy stuff is really interesting. Both the possibilities presented have a lot of story potential.
Considering Newgate-to-Teach comment; 'Its not you Teach, 'you're not whom Roger is waiting for', AND the fact that Newgate wanted Ace especifically to become pirate king, being well aware of what Ace would have found in Laugh Tale.
I think we have a solid answer, its the D's.
This cannot be trained is a bit weird to me. You canmake it stronger by getting stronger and luffy found a technique using it that give him a huge power up.
And that technique needs to be trained as Kaidou said Luffy didn't master it.
So i donkt really see the difference with a technique you can train
What is sure, is that no training can help you acquire it
The moments it got stronger were when a lot was at stake. Can't duplicate that in training. The more situations like this arise, the stronger it gets.
If you're really a king, you can accomplish what you want. Protect your friends, treasure, and stick to your disposition no matter what's in the way.
This cannot be trained is a bit weird to me. You canmake it stronger by getting stronger and luffy found a technique using it that give him a huge power up.
And that technique needs to be trained as Kaidou said Luffy didn't master it.
So i donkt really see the difference with a technique you can train
What is sure, is that no training can help you acquire it
You just can't make CoC stronger by training the way you could with CoA and CoO. The latter work more like muscles that you can push to their limits to make them stronger (as shown in the fights against Katakuri and Big Mom in Udon respectively), while advanced CoC is more akin to martial arts techniques. You can strengthen your body/will but it won't be truly effective if your technique sucks, and you might even hurt yourself which is what I hope happened with Luffy.
Considering Newgate-to-Teach comment; 'Its not you Teach, 'you're not whom Roger is waiting for', AND the fact that Newgate wanted Ace especifically to become pirate king, being well aware of what Ace would have found in Laugh Tale.
I think we have a solid answer, its the D's.
Solid observations. The Ds are starting to look like the thing.
Hey Greg, what happens behind the scenes when we get a 15 page or shorter chapter? Is it a deadline issue? Something Jump mandates? Or does Oda just feel like he's reached a good stopping without filling those two extra pages?
Hey Greg, what happens behind the scenes when we get a 15 page or shorter chapter? Is it a deadline issue? Something Jump mandates? Or does Oda just feel like he's reached a good stopping without filling those two extra pages?
Deadline, good stopping point, Oda is only human and he slept 5 hours one night instead of 4, he might also have another project he's working on eating his time like doing 3 volume covers at the same time, or a 50+character spread for the popularity poll….
Hey Greg what did you think about Nami’s moment this chapter? It wasn’t a full fledged 2 or 3 chapter fight like I was hoping for but I was happy she at least did something? How about you? I guess her declaration that she would do something wasn’t totally in vain
Hey Greg, what would Zeus be considered as? Like a new crewmate or would he count as something different? I don't see him as a crewmember, but as Nami's weapon, but at the same time he is alive. Just curious on your thoughts.
Greg, have you ever talked to Oda about death in the manga? I know he only uses it for very specific and selective reasons, but is he aware of how the fans have reacted to the non-deaths, like Pell, Pagaya, and a few others? The Akazaya 9's seeming doom really makes me wonder what we're in store for. If the ones who appear dead don't die, no one will ever have faith in that aspect of his writing again. Is this something he's very aware of?