If it wasn't for Enel, the moon would be 100% it. It's downgraded to merely "likely" because something as random as Enel beating Luffy to his dream would be anti-climactic as fuck, but still it's the one that makes the most sense considering the characters, the scope of the story, and the reactions they both got.
What did Luffy say?
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For me, the moon thing is the same as Lodestar. In the sense that Lodestar should be out of the question when it comes to visiting it, but it's been put in my face in a way that I have to second guess and question if the crew may have to journey there.
So, the moon is just too obvious imo. It might have a connection to Laugh Tale, but the possibility of the moon being Luffy's dream or being Raftel decreased for me way before this arc.
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Since the chapter is out, I think we can bump it now. Silly thing is I already forgot that just over one year ago I commented in this thread, yet totally forgot about it.:ninja:
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Okay, now that the Chapter 1000 was released. It is clear that there're some goals both Roger and Luffy want to achieve and it is not just being the pirate king.
It was mentioned at least 4 times with omitted dialogues. I personally think it has something to do after being the pirate king and being absurd/childish at the same time.
e.g. "I want to be the Pirate King and unite all the seas so everyone can be free." or something like that. -
Actually, not so many people have declared their desire to become pirateking.
I mean, ok, a fodder like Don Krieg said he wanted to find the OnePiece, but it was in the early days of the manga. Maybe it's a "mistake" like introducing Mihawk this soon, not showing haki with Ace and stuff like that.
But anyway, maybe they said something different– yes. I'll leave it here, as there is nothing to add yet
Big Mom said she wanted to be Pirate King just a few chapters ago.
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Big Mom said she wanted to be Pirate King just a few chapters ago.
Yeah, but why reply to a post from more than a year ago ? Anyways, I've changed my mind since then. I think there is room for another dream, something more than pirate king.
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Yeah, but why reply to a post from more than a year ago ? Anyways, I've changed my mind since then. I think there is room for another dream, something more than pirate king.
For some reason, I thought this thread was merged with the new one (instead of closed), so I was under the impression those posts were new too.
And even then, Big Mom also declared she wanted to be Pirate King at Whole Cake Island, so you were still wrong anyway.
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Don’t care if this is an endgame spoiler, we already knew Luffy said something about having a dream that matches something Roger said back in the day, so the reminder served no new purpose. Would’ve preferred it to be actually revealed.
That said, new theory involves D. meaning Dawn and Luffy and Roger wanting to be astronauts or space Pirates and fly into space. Just basing it on the hope/expectation that Enel’s cover story and the fact that there was a group of Poneglyph protectors that had wings on their back that ended up in the Blue Sea means something in regards to the Endgame which means they have to go up to space for everything to come together.
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By this point the only thing that I thing would make Newgate, Oden, Ace and Sabo laugh in disbelieve is going to space.
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By this point the only thing that I thing would make Newgate, Oden, Ace and Sabo laugh in disbelieve is going to space**.**
Meanwhile, a certain someone
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Going to space would be the safest bet if it weren't for someone else achieving that dream hundreds of chapters ago already. No one laughed at him either.
It would also be weird if people like Whitebeard, who've seen wonders beyond imagination already, would laugh at another epic journey to a scary place.
So it must be something stupid and really childish. Reaching space really isn't.
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Enel doesn't count what is the Pirate King to a Rap GOD?
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"This told us nothing! It's stupid!"
What this did was further narrow the field of possibilities.
Narrow it to the point where I think careful and attentive adult fans can guess with 50-75％ accuracy. This essentially serves to bring casual readers (Oda's target audience) up to speed with analytical fans and give some analytical fans a very accurate range of guesstimation. Not that anyone here has or hasn't approached it. My point is simply, yes, it had a purpose. If you're frustrated I'm compelled to wonder, why? It's been hyped for one of the biggest endgame mysteries. Oda isn't going to simply release it now. You might not like the trickle of info but that doesn't mean it's without a very specific purpose. If one is going to complain about this, one might as well complain why Oda didn't just reveal One Piece this chap. (No, that's not a veiled hint, I'm being literal)
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What are currently the biggest hints around Luffy's goal? It was something "childish" or something so baffling you'd get a laugh as a reaction. Too lazy to repeat the whole thing about why it isn't becoming pirate king etc etc.
I think another hint are the parallels between Roger and Luffy but also I think maybe we should think about parallels to Joyboy?
Maybe I'm totally off the track(or maybe not and I'm sure all the theorycrafters might have already considered this) but maybe another hint to Luffy's goal might be hinted by Joyboy's promise (assuming the parallels from Roger/Luffy extend to Joyboy).
Any weird childish goals people can think off that involve a gigantic ship that is inspired by Noah's Ark?
Also another thing when roger spoke to Whitebeard before revealing his goal he said something like after reaching Laugh Tale "his crew would be the greatest pirate crew in fact and name"(or something like that was the localization). Basically the pirate king title didn't exist during Roger's time but Roger was keen on attaining the fame associated with doing what nobody else managed to do before. -
"This told us nothing! It's stupid!"
What this did was further narrow the field of possibilities.
Narrow it to the point where I think careful and attentive adult fans can guess with 50-75％ accuracy. This essentially serves to bring casual readers (Oda's target audience) up to speed with analytical fans and give some analytical fans a very accurate range of guesstimation. Not that anyone here has or hasn't approached it. My point is simply, yes, it had a purpose. If you're frustrated I'm compelled to wonder, why? It's been hyped for one of the biggest endgame mysteries. Oda isn't going to simply release it now. You might not like the trickle of info but that doesn't mean it's without a very specific purpose. If one is going to complain about this, one might as well complain why Oda didn't just reveal One Piece this chap. (No, that's not a veiled hint, I'm being literal)
Love your posts, Greg! It's gotta be the moon.
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But there is no direct line to the treasure right now. Unless the diary has it.
Or is it Luffy's/Roger's line, the reason why it is Laughtale, and the One Piece the same thing? Roger said his line, and then the treasure was that precise thing?
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
The thing with Joy Boy is that the one thing that we know of him, is that he made a promise to the seafolk, that he lived in the blank century, that he had access to wano to write the stones, that being a "Boy" was probably a he, and that he had regrets, something that is anathema to Roger and Luffy.
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Well at least his next fake out will have to be less than a decade away
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Consider what Shanks said, I don't remember when, but probably to Raileigh, the post timeskip escape from shabody flashback, the same chapter where we find out the connection of the hat, that luffy said to shanks "the same thing that the captain used to say", Is the line in chapter one?
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Ok, it wasn’t when the hat, but near chapter 500, when they went to shaky’s bar and luffy said “no spoilers” to Raileigh and Usopp. Also the line on Roger and luffy’s side (on the grey terminal flashback and the recent Oden flashback was “I’ll be...” it doesn’t discount the “I’ll be the first man on the moon” but it seems like a stretch.
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I think it really might be something along the lines of "I want to be the one to throw the biggest and best party ever known". It's something childish, it comes at the end of his other dream, after having sailed the Grand Line and having made many friends to attend the party, after becoming the person with the most freedom so he can fully enjoy it, with plenty of stories to share between all the people attending and all the adventures he had. No wonder Luffy was so focussed on getting a musician.
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People really liked the party idea huh
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Luffy wants to be the guy with the most freedom.
Luffy knows the most important and valueable thing are his friends and people surrounding him.
Luffy wants that everyone has the opportunity to live a life of joy, adventure and meat.
For that it´s important that people have dreams they´re going after.Roger was the guy with the most freedom, but was close to dieing, so he sacrificed himself to give other people a dream.
Maybe Luffy wants just to make people dream again, give them a dream and an opprtunity.
Afterall his crew is made of people with certin dreams, people who still dare to dream and Luffy wants to see them succeed.So my guess is that Luffy said he wants to be the pirateking, so that he is free enough to fulfill the dreams of others.
Like a certain dream a man name JoyBoy had hundred of years ago and also Gol.D.Roger.
Joy Boy wanted to fulfill the dream of the fishman, but wasn´t able to, but he promised it would happpen.The WG doesn´t want people to have dreams, maybe even the ancient kingdom was attacked because it had dreams the WG wasn´t to fond of, because those dreams kept them from ruling all.
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Well at least his next fake out will have to be less than a decade away
To be fair, would you have really wanted to have heard it from Yamato rather than Luffy himself when the time comes?
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This essentially serves to bring casual readers (Oda's target audience) up to speed with analytical fans and give some analytical fans a very accurate range of guesstimation
This is a really good point. The crazy fans like us made a thread and speculated about this five years ago.. and even then a lot of people said it was crazy and reading too much into it.
Then Oda doubled down with the similarity to Roger, but even that is easy to miss.
Here it's spelled out clearly and plain as day that "this is important, keep an eye out for it." It might also mean the answer is coming sooner than later… but Oda had to make sure first the entire audience even knew there was a question to begin with.... not just those that have obsessively discussed it all for a decade.
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Yeah, my bet is on the world wide feast/party.
To Luffy that might mean freedom, or a good, care free life. He had just witnessed people living shitty lives in the trash.
"I want to throw a feast to a whole world." Roger basically did it, everyone (almost) partied when he died.
Edit: this also makes Luffy closer to his Dad. They are trying to achieve the same thing (kinda). Dragon is just really forcing it.
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Luffy said "I'm gonna host an event called the Pirate Summit!" which is why Ace said he'll meet him there.
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I always liked the moon idea, but it does feel less credible since Enel is already there. Maybe if it was twisted to wanting to party on the moon or something, but Luffy prolly woulda said something during Skypiea (I don't recall if he was even aware Enel was heading to the moon). I dunno about simply throwing a party for the world. That sounds less :O :| more "o u".
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Luffy's dream is to eat every kind of meat in the world.
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Luffy's dream is to eat every kind of meat in the world.
Including the best meat the Ancient Kingdom had to offer.
Cue time travel saga.
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Oh, man, what if Luffy's dream is to time travel back in time?
It sounds as childish as space travel, if not more.
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I'm still gonna go with "I wanna make the world happy" (or "I want to be the one that makes…" if it has to start wit I want to be)
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I'm not sure Luffy cares about the happiness of the world.
It's not like the OP world is a crapsack with war and death on every corner.
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The one line that points to the future on chapter 1, besides being the pirate king, awesome, and pistol force punches, is luffy declaring that he will pay makino and to put what he drank in his treasure tab. Luffy wants to “be free of debts”
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Considering what Ace said, Luffy's dream is definitely something that is outlandish but remotely 'achievable' at least. At the same time it is crazy enough to even make both kids( Ace and Sabo) and adults( WB and Oden) surprised to the point of disbelief.If we believe Roger failed to achieve his final dream( otherwise Luffy won't achieve something more than him), then getting One Piece itself or being the pirate king was not the endgoal. So, here is my new thought:
I think Luffy(and Roger too) wants to unite the oceans and thus the world by destroying Red Line.
By the way, cons of this whole plotpoint in general is Luffy never shared his true dream with his mates, till now. But Roger did,since even Shank knew.
“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it–always.”
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"I want to throw a huge party at Makino's bar and cover everyone's tab!" would fit but its still not big and crazy enough to trigger reactions, and certainly not eough to match what Roger's dream was.
I think Luffy(and Roger too) wants to unite the oceans and thus the world by destroying Red Line.
Did Luffy even understand how the oceans connected and worked when he was a kid? Does he understand it even now? When Reverse Mountain was explained to hi mhe wrote it off as a mystery.
The crew needed it explained in some detail when they crossed reverse mountain. Heck, they didn't even know there WAS a mountain, not even the competent members like Nami, or Sanji who had crossed blues at some point in his life.
Also, the "destroy the red llne" theory has been proposed before at some length and its contradictory to everything that is Luffy. He thinks the grand llne is paradise, the ultimate adventure and fun… why would he want to destroy that? Why would that be his plan at age 8?
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Yeah, it has to be something childish based on what they knew before going out to sea.
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"This told us nothing! It's stupid!"
What this did was further narrow the field of possibilities.
Narrow it to the point where I think careful and attentive adult fans can guess with 50-75％ accuracy. This essentially serves to bring casual readers (Oda's target audience) up to speed with analytical fans and give some analytical fans a very accurate range of guesstimation. Not that anyone here has or hasn't approached it. My point is simply, yes, it had a purpose. If you're frustrated I'm compelled to wonder, why? It's been hyped for one of the biggest endgame mysteries. Oda isn't going to simply release it now. You might not like the trickle of info but that doesn't mean it's without a very specific purpose. If one is going to complain about this, one might as well complain why Oda didn't just reveal One Piece this chap. (No, that's not a veiled hint, I'm being literal)
It's like you said, the annoyance for me comes down to this being more of a reminder for casual viewers than a reveal of anything new imo (unless you're implying there is something to be hinted at as to what Roger and Luffy want to achieve in Yamato and Ace's conversation that hasn't been noted yet), hence the annoyance.
And yes, it would be the same as chapter 1000 saying "One Piece can be found by going to Laugh Tale, finding all 4 Rio Poneglyphs" etc. Yes, I understand the Luffy/Roger dream comparison is much more obscure, but it's something that astute fans have captured, so it being the big "1000" surprise isn't a big milestone, especially since nothing more was teased about it, again unless there was something missing between Yamato and Ace's convo that I missed.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Now to think again seriously what we do know...Luffy still wants to be King of the Pirates despite that not being his main dream, so being King of the Pirates aids his dream somehow in Luffy's mind. To Luffy, being Pirate King is being the freest person on the sea.
Luffy's dream = freedom.
He also is soul crushed when he believes he is alone in the world. He followed Ace because he'd rather be with somebody with Ace than be lonely, and we've seen him mentally destroyed when he thought he lost the crew and soul crushed when his brother was lost. So as much as I like the moon idea, his dream probably does have to do with being with others in some capacity as Luffy hates loneliness, so I can understand why people like the party idea (but it has to be a party with his friends, not just anyone. The "hero" speech he gave in Fishman Island proved he doesn't want to share meat with just anyone, though he seemed fine with throwing a wild party in Water 7 so what do I know). Then, again, having a dream being throwing a giant party for your friends isn't exactly laughable? The only thing I see about that is that you don't have to be King of the Pirates to do something like that, so Luffy's dream has likely have to be grander than just any party.
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Luffy won’t destroy the red line unless it is directly involved on the oppression of the world, that the world was actually manipulated to be like that, by either the wg for oppression or the ancient kingdom for safekeeping the one piece.
Destroying the grand line would imply destroying the calm belts, and that implies destroying the natural habitat of the sea kings, either killing them or release them into the rest of the world.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
If luffy destroys the geography of the world is a reaction, not a dream. I don’t believe it will happen tho. But laboon is there trying to do it, and one thing is destroy marijoa or that slice of the red line, rather than destroying the whole thing
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There is the whole continent puller thing. Could manage to push part of the red line to allow freer travel. Still sounds horribly mucky, though the fate of Fishman Island sounds mucky too so who knows.
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Have a gigantic party with his friends from all over the world. Sounds childish enough yet something Luffy would say. People tend to forget that Luffy at his core is a simple minded character, and as such, his dream is super simple as well.
The following explains this theory pretty well, and I like it a lot:
https://thelibraryofohara.com/2021/01/04/chapter-secrets-chapter-1000-in-depth-analysis/
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I'm not sure Luffy cares about the happiness of the world.
It's not like the OP world is a crapsack with war and death on every corner.
It isn't? The insane amount of corruption, brutality and tyranny the World Government presides over alone is bad enough, but then there's thousands of pirate crews all over the world. And I do think there is a fair amount of inter-nation wars.
Like….the OP world kinda is a hellscape.
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@Johnny:
It isn't? The insane amount of corruption, brutality and tyranny the World Government presides over alone is bad enough, but then there's thousands of pirate crews all over the world. And I do think there is a fair amount of inter-nation wars.
Like….the OP world kinda is a hellscape.
It isn't, though. Most places are peaceful, with the occasional pirate attack here and there. Luffy himself was raised in a sleepy little village where the biggest villain was some mountain douchebag, so I'm not sure he would have any idea about the "darkness" of the world by the time he met Sabo.
The world of OP isn't Berserk or Fist of the North Star dark really. World Nobles aside, the WG is fairly passive and doesn't really go around conquering places. There's a clear and stable society going on
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I don't know what Luffy and Roger said. My best guess, since it seems both dreams come after actually finding the treasure: "I want to find the treasure… and then I'll give it all away!"
Luffy never grew up in the best of circumstances... He lived on an island also occupied by royalty, who had everything they wanted and threw out all the trash... It sounds childish, him not wanting to keep the treasure, but at the same time, it is a noble dream. And, you can't give away the treasure until you find it, so that's why it's at the end of his dream. He wants everyone to enjoy the treasure, so they won't have to live in trash dumps or on the outskirts of society. I guess the dream could also be, "Share it with the world!" or something like that, but "Give it all away!" certainly has a bit more of a punch, which might warrant the reactions we've seen so far.
That's the best I got. I'm a bit frustrated -- I had a dream a couple days ago about this very thing, and I had this great idea of what Luffy's and Roger's dream was. I remembered it only briefly when I awoke, and now it's gone. I don't think it was the same idea I posted here.
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It isn't, though. Most places are peaceful, with the occasional pirate attack here and there. Luffy himself was raised in a sleepy little village where the biggest villain was some mountain douchebag, so I'm not sure he would have any idea about the "darkness" of the world by the time he met Sabo.
The world of OP isn't Berserk or Fist of the North Star dark really. World Nobles aside, the WG is fairly passive and doesn't really go around conquering places. There's a clear and stable society going on
That's not entirely true. The WG is responsible for a lot of poverty in the world because, as specfically explained in the manga, their taxes are unreasonably high for countries to pay, but these countries pay anyway because they need marine protection, which leads to poverty. And any ruler who defies the WG becomes an example, like what happened to Kuma (as already implied), so just wait for his flashback. There's a reason why the revolutionaries want a worldwide revolution. Besides that, add corruption, slavery, genocide, authoritarianism, not to mention other more ideological types of political wrongdoings.
But you're right that it's not a post-apocaliptic world like some other series.
Anyway, I also don't think that Luffy's dream is about the WG. Maybe indirectly.
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I don't know what Luffy and Roger said. My best guess, since it seems both dreams come after actually finding the treasure: "I want to find the treasure… and then I'll give it all away!"
Luffy never grew up in the best of circumstances... He lived on an island also occupied by royalty, who had everything they wanted and threw out all the trash... It sounds childish, him not wanting to keep the treasure, but at the same time, it is a noble dream. And, you can't give away the treasure until you find it, so that's why it's at the end of his dream. He wants everyone to enjoy the treasure, so they won't have to live in trash dumps or on the outskirts of society. I guess the dream could also be, "Share it with the world!" or something like that, but "Give it all away!" certainly has a bit more of a punch, which might warrant the reactions we've seen so far.
That's the best I got. I'm a bit frustrated -- I had a dream a couple days ago about this very thing, and I had this great idea of what Luffy's and Roger's dream was. I remembered it only briefly when I awoke, and now it's gone. I don't think it was the same idea I posted here.
In that case, why didn't Roger give it away?
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In that case, why didn't Roger give it away?
I don't know. There are too many mysteries about what Roger found on Laugh Tale for me to come to a conclusion. It seems, at least, that whatever was there could not be utilized until a future generation. Twenty years in the future. We know the treasure is a physical reward. I definitely think Roger left actual gold and silver, typical pirate treasury things, maybe for his son. He wanted a son that would later find One Piece. Maybe as a reward or inheritance for him. Then it would be his choice what to do with the treasure. Roger was too early to decide, for whatever reason.
