We start giving attention to "Oden PTSD" today and tomorrow we have to deal with people who say "Big Meme".
Chapter 986: My Name
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What the hell is up with the Kaidou having PTSD talk? Do people genuinely believe that?
Looool
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This is what happens when people get carried away with the hype.
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Personally, I really like that all of the Emperors aren't just unbeatable, emotionless monsters, but are actually being portrayed as normal, flawed human beings…who happen to be immensely strong monsters, too.
EDIT: Like, it really comes across to me that it's very important to Oda that all of the Yonko are written as memorable, interesting and entertaining characters. Right now, Shanks of all people is probably the most uninteresting Yonko to me.
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@.access:
We start giving attention to "Oden PTSD" today and tomorrow we have to deal with people who say "Big Meme".
Atleast Big Meme is a cute pun.
Kaido PTSD has none of it's flair
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This is what happens when people get carried away with the hype.
Yes of course its the fans fault its not like Kaido was hyped to hell both in the manga and by Oda himself.
Clearly its the fans fault for expecting someone who is supposed to be the strongest character currently to not get disarmed by a cat.
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PC Kaido is the best meme.
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Yes of course its the fans fault its not like Kaido was hyped to hell both in the manga and by Oda himself.
Clearly its the fans fault for expecting someone who is supposed to be the strongest character currently to not get disarmed by a cat.
That's your issue? That he got disarmed by a "cat"?
I get it though. Kaido must be flawless or he's trash, right?
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Yes of course its the fans fault its not like Kaido was hyped to hell both in the manga and by Oda himself.
Clearly its the fans fault for expecting someone who is supposed to be the strongest character currently to not get disarmed by a cat.
A guy who got defeated, chained up and tortured multiple times?
Sometimes it is the fans fault.
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Anyway I'm pretty sure that one panel was about that no other sword other than Oden's can harm him.
I mean, that's not how PTSD works. You don't get overconfident in one moment and start to tremble after one second of a figment from the past.
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I hope Queen and Jack transform and destroy the whole place in the process.
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My take is that he is just reacting to the overwhelming killing intent coming from the scabbards. Like he first claims they can't scratch him, but then gets a cold chill when he feels similar intent from when Oden carved him like a turkey, so i'm expecting a little mark at the very least, and at most a decent scratch as the fruit of 20 years of hatred and regret
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That is everyones take wolf. Other takes can and will be thoroughly disputed.
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This is what happens when people get carried away with the hype.
Yeah it's the fans fault who expect Oda to deliver on the hype he build for Kaido.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Anyway I'm pretty sure that one panel was about that no other sword other than Oden's can harm him.
I mean, that's not how PTSD works. You don't get overconfident in one moment and start to tremble after one second of a figment from the past.
How does it work then ? Because clearly Kaido shit himself.
I mean again.. The guy who's hobby is suicide according to his introduction (Oda probably forgot about it) shit himself because he got reminded of the guy that cut him. He shat himself in front of guys who are scrubs compared to him.
If that is a decent showing to you then lol.
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It's like talking against a wall with these guys, jeez.
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It was Oda's biggest mistake having Oden deal such a blow to Kaido. It killed his entire character.
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@Joy:
How does it work then ? Because clearly Kaido shit himself.
It works like how Momo remebered Doflamingo in Punk Hazard. Completely different things.
I mean again.. The guy who's hobby is suicide according to his introduction (Oda probably forgot about it) shit himself because he got reminded of the guy that cut him. He shat himself in front of guys who are scrubs compared to him.
If that is a decent showing to you then lol.
Did you just called me a retard?
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Don't think I have anything original to state that hasn't already been stated by someone else:
- Why have Kanjuro's defeat off panel during Kaidou's speech and portrayed as "cliff hanger" if it's just going to be revealed he was cut down at the beginning of this chapter? Maybe it's a taunt as the Kabuki performer's final acts occur offstage, but it's odd. Yeah, it could be for a reveal later of him being alive, but his role and betrayal went through its arc already, including closure given this chapter.
- It was a nice touch that the close up of the faces shown on page 3 where those that traveled to the future with Kanjuro given unlike the others, they didn't have 20 years where they lived without his presence in mind. If the bond was better portrayed between the 4 of them, that could have been something really special.
- 10000 Warriors for Wano. 5000 samurai and 5000 ninjas. Again, if the story portrayed the forces of Wano such that they were a threat to Kaidou and his forces until now, the whole "waiting until allied with Big Mom" overthrow could've been justified in the same manner that Kaidou/Orochi pointed out how Oden and co. could have won if they fought initially instead of waiting those five years. Do we have a number for the amount of forces Kaidou has in terms of Pleasures/Waiters/Gifters/Headliners etc.?
- Shinobu's statement feels meta in terms of how Orochi and Kaidou should have been portrayed in the flashback, such that the focus should have been on Kaidou instead, with Shinobu acknowledging that fact.
- It was kinda inevitable, but again Yamato's initial characterization and possible development is sped through with Yamato finding out Oden's will does live on . Now that Yamato knows that his retainers and son are still alive, how does that affect his character and motivations? To be fair, in this chapter, Yamato was given confirmation Kaidou handcuffed him with explosives and he denounced his father. But is that enough?
- Super nice touch with Usopp being brave enough to head towards the enemy to try to save Momo. Shame, but I guess understandable, that Chopper is terrified though. After seeing the new opening not give Chopper a cool fighting pose but show him as cutesy, I'm hoping Chopper gets a cool moment soon enough again. It's moments like this that make me think maybe his current bounty isn't unwarranted after all (though it used to be unwarranted given his past actions).
- Good on Momo for standing up for himself. Hopefully that gives him some respect in Kaido's eyes, not that it should matter, but despite the tears Momo is showing backbone.
- Speaking of tears though, interesting that right after a line about Momo saying a warrior shouldn't cry in front of others, Yamato is shown crying over knowing his father did handcuff him with explosives. I really don't want to touch the trans-discussion as I'm not comfortable enough to make a statement of it one way or another, but I thought it was worth noting that Oda doesn't seem to have problems with having Yamato be shown crying.
- Again, kudos to Luffy for respecting the situation/warriors of Wano to let the 9 Scabbards start the battle. I'm conflicted though as to whether Luffy believes that this is a battle he shouldn't interfere with or not though, like how Luffy didn't attack Mihawk and stopped Johnny/Yosaku from attacking Mihawk until the end of the battle. I'm pretty sure he doesn't want them to die, but I could also see him believing this is something they deserve to do on their own.
- Finally, the Scabbards attack at the end was awesome. Fully expect Kaido and co. to counterattack next chapter with Kaido only be slightly injured (they deserve to make him bleed/bruise to honor Oden's will IMO), but this was a nice moment for them (again, if only I cared for them more, which bums me out to say). Been trying to come up with the best "parallel" to what they are like. I think the closest IMO is the Shandians and Wiper to be honest, but it's not 1 to 1.
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It works like how Momo remebered Doflamingo in Punk Hazard. Completely different things.
Did you just called me a retard?
What ? When did Momo remember Doflamingo ?
No I said that it is laughable if you think that's a decent showing for Kaido, the WSC and a Yonko.
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- Why have Kanjuro's defeat off panel during Kaidou's speech and portrayed as "cliff hanger" if it's just going to be revealed he was cut down at the beginning of this chapter? Maybe it's a taunt as the Kabuki performer's final acts occur offstage, but it's odd.
Theory time: Kanjuro did not die. It's not an ink clone either. He will wake up. He will crawl inside, barely alive, and find Orochi dead. Then, as the last Kurozumi, he will vow to end the Kouzuki line so he can die in peace. He's going after Momonosuke and Hiyori, leading to the children of Oden fighting him. He will be near death, thought, so the challenge will be mostly against his ink creations. The scene in this chapter is the parting act between the Scabbards and Kanjuro, and his apparent defeat is meant to weaken him so that Momo and Hiyori can defeat him.
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Theory time: Kanjuro did not die. It's not an ink clone either. He will wake up. He will crawl inside, barely alive, and find Orochi dead. Then, as the last Kurozumi, he will vow to end the Kouzuki line so he can die in peace. He's going after Momonosuke and Hiyori, leading to the children of Oden fighting him. He will be near death, thought, so the challenge will be mostly against his ink creations. The scene in this chapter is the parting act between the Scabbards and Kanjuro, and his apparent defeat is meant to weaken him so that Momo and Hiyori can defeat him.
If either of them showed any capability to actually fight, I might buy it, but they just don't seem like fighters. Which means if this does happen, someone else would be saving them. If it's the Scabbards, like you said, they already had their closure, so it's kinda repetitive. If it's someone else it won't mean anything emotionally in the long run and just be there so the person that saves them can have a "cool" moment, which depending on the character wouldn't necessarily be bad, except I can't really think of any character(s) that have bonded with Momo/Hiyori to make it emotionally resonant. Sanji's the first that comes to mind. Zoro second. And I imagine at least Zoro would be fighting bigger fish in the battle.
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If either of them showed any capability to actually fight, I might buy it, but they just don't seem like fighters. Which means if this does happen, someone else would be saving them. If it's the Scabbards, like you said, they already had their closure. If it's someone else it won't mean anything emotionally in the long run and just be there so the person that saves them can have a "cool" moment, which depending on the character wouldn't necessarily be bad, except I can't really think of any character(s) that have bonded with Momo/Hiyori to make it emotionally resonant. Sanji's the first that comes to mind. Zoro second. And I imagine at least Zoro would be fighting bigger fish in the battle.
Momo has been training to fight the entire arc, and he also has a devil fruit power. Hiyori wished to be able to kill Orochi with her own hands. They will both have their moment. As children of Oden, they deserve it.
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Do we have a number for the amount of forces Kaidou has in terms of Pleasures/Waiters/Gifters/Headliners etc.?
Around 20,000 according to Kinemon in Ch. 955.
- Shinobu's statement feels meta in terms of how Orochi and Kaidou should have been portrayed in the flashback, such that the focus should have been on Kaidou instead, with Shinobu acknowledging that fact.
He is almost 100% guaranteed to get his own flashback, so I was never bothered by that.
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- Speaking of tears though, interesting that right after a line about Momo saying a warrior shouldn't cry in front of others, Yamato is shown crying over knowing his father did handcuff him with explosives. I really don't want to touch the trans-discussion as I'm not comfortable enough to make a statement of it one way or another, but I thought it was worth noting that Oda doesn't seem to have problems with having Yamato be shown crying.
Momo was crying buckets as he thought that, the whole idea of a "warrior not crying" is just bs. Just like:
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@Joy:
Yeah it's the fans fault who expect Oda to deliver on the hype he build for Kaido.
He has delivered on the hype and will continue do so as the Wano arc continues. You just want Kaido to be nothing but his hype. Their can't be more to him right?
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As much as Luffy wants to punch Kaido, he is aware of how important and meaningful it is for the Scabbards to initiate this war. He needed to see how defeated the former proud warriors were in Udon. Seeing Tama, the rest of Kuri and what Kin's exposition wasn't enough. Hard headed people take longer than others to get this sentimental shit.
Chapter 949 is great to read before this chapter. Luffy is saying that the Wano warriors were once proud samurai and acknowledges how great Oden was, based on what Kin told the crew (920). Luffy says stay under Kaido or be a proud samurai like you used to be and fight alongside us. Hyo even reacts to how Luffy is a great leader. In this chapter, Hyo reacts to how lowly Hotei and Fukurokuju are when faced with a similar ultimatum. Luffy shows maturity and understanding again when he slows Yamato down from taking the first strike against Kaido. That privilege is reserved for those who've carried this burden.
I don't think this means that the Scabbards are meant to defeat Kaido. It's a sign of respect. As stubborn as Luffy is, he knew the importance of keeping his hands off Kaido this time for the Scabbard's sake. Before, Oda used Bellamy and the Doffy clone to separate Luffy from Doffy a little. Now, Luffy's growth gets to show with him stopping himself and Yamato, despite what he did 60 chapters ago. I wonder if Oden and Roger went through the same situation. Both like to run into things
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Momo has been training to fight the entire arc, and he also has a devil fruit power. Hiyori wished to be able to kill Orochi with her own hands. They will both have their moment. As children of Oden, they deserve it.
Momo was training as Shanks cheered him on. Time travel is beautiful
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@.access:
Momo was crying buckets as he thought that, the whole idea of a "warrior not crying" is just bs. Just like:
https://i.postimg.cc/qv63njWm/oden.pngIt's funny because Yamato has probably read the 'not a tear was shed' version from the journal and taken it to heart, none the wiser that it was, in fact, bs.
But yeah, it's silly. Franky is as macho as it gets and he's also a big crybaby.
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@.access:
Momo was crying buckets as he thought that, the whole idea of a "warrior not crying" is just bs. Just like:
[qimg]https://i.postimg.cc/qv63njWm/oden.png[/qimg]Manly tears of goodbye are different in context.
Mono crying in fear when he’s about to die makes sense because he’s a kid, but for others in that situation, they would not be crying. They would face death without tears in their eyes.
For Yamato’s situation, I can understand tears in the panel thinking his father did try to kill him, but that first panel screams tears from almost dying from the explosion.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Basically for a warrior you can cry for others or in the context of others, but you don’t cry in fear of your own wellbeing.
@Blissed thanks for the reminder/info!
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To be fair to Yamato, those tears were both for comedy and possibly for discovering that Kaidou would, in fact, rig a bomb on those cuffs. It's not quite the same thing as typical crying.
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@Joy:
It was Oda's biggest mistake having Oden deal such a blow to Kaido. It killed his entire character.
Kaido had the Oden scar since his introduction lol.
That mark of shame has always been in his character.
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Kaido had the Oden scar since his introduction lol.
That mark of shame has always been in his character.
No to mention Kaido's first appearance in the manga was literally opened with "He had tasted defeat as a pirate on seven occasions".
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Kaido was introduced as a guy who had lost like 7 times before, lol.
Anyway, people are too naive. Kaido will be the hugest pain in the *** to defeat.
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Atleast Big Meme is a cute pun.
Kaido PTSD has none of it's flair
Ooh, how about, "Kaiduh Moment".
"He just had a Kaiduh moment". Could work.
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The reason Kaido is so fearsome and threatening isn't because he's been this untouchable monster who smites everyone who gets in his way. His intro talked about all the times he lost battles, got captured, and was on the verge of execution. He's fearsome because despite the hell he's gone through in his life, he's stayed alive and fighting. He really isn't suicidal, he's just lived his life on the edge to the point of trying to kill himself as a hobby, and now he's trying to start a war to surpass Marineford, the war so brutal that Whitebeard didn't survive it.
I fully expect Kaido to be noticeably affected by the Scabbards' attack. I also fully expect him to keep fighting and be incredibly dangerous. Whitebeard took a ton of injuries at Marineford, and if anything that only made it more awesome when he proceeded to kick ass immediately afterward.
There is already an Emperor with impenetrable skin who no-sells anything thrown at them. Her name is Big Mom :)
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Anyway, people are too naive. Kaido will be the hugest pain in the *** to defeat.
I don't think people doubt this more so than they dislike that he is not infallible. It's the same with Big Mom.
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To be fair to Yamato, those tears were both for comedy and possibly for discovering that Kaidou would, in fact, rig a bomb on those cuffs. It's not quite the same thing as typical crying.
Still, intentional or not, showing Yamato with those comedy tears while the bomb exploded speaks to his character, with Momo’s words about a warrior and whether to cry adding to that, again intentionally or not.
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I like it how everyone just team ups on yonkou, they don't even try to fight fair, everyone jump at them. This was 100% marines and BB pirates jumping at WB.
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Fighting fairly against a Yonkou just means you lose, particularly if they're NOT fighting fairly.
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Next chapter, Kaidou one shots the scabbards in a single move. Those samurais have zero idea of who they’re dealing with.
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Next chapter, Kaidou one shots the scabbards in a single move. Those samurais have zero idea of who they’re dealing with.
They know Kaido extremely well lmao. Well enough to know that there's not much more they can do than throw away their name and wits, take any opening they get, and hope for the best.
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Kaido isn't unbeatable. Kaido is unkillable. Big difference.
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We see Kanjuro's body on the floor with blood coming out. If it was an ink clone, it would possibly disappear like in ch 976. Yet, it's still there. Imagine if he's using Yasuie's body or blood to make his art more convincing. It would be horrible if Kiku really just defeated Yasuie's corpse that was being controlled by Kanjuro. Please Oda don't do it.
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@Vongola_Boss_XI:
Kaido isn't unbeatable. Kaido is unkillable. Big difference.
Who thinks Kaido is unbeatable? I'm still expecting him to be killed at some point too.
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Who thinks Kaido is unbeatable? I'm still expecting him to be killed at some point too.
Because, during his introduction, the narration explained that he was captured and executed (unsuccessfully) several times.
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I don't think we're gonna see the scabbards lose so quick. I think we're gonna focus on the stuff inside the castle for a few chapters, then we cut back to the fight and they're all beaten up on the ground, with hybrid form Kaido standing over them.
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I also can't wait to see Big Mom go after Luffy and Yamato since they're right there near her. With Ulti and Who's Who on their tail, it's going to be interesting to see who else get's involved in that play
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Because, during his introduction, the narration explained that he was captured and executed (unsuccessfully) several times.
Yeah but my crazy maybe stupid idea is that Big Mom will kill him once he has been defeated by Luffy. I think that is ultimately her purpose in the Wano arc because Luffy can't kill him and Kaido can't remain free; he also can't just be imprisoned so he has to die.
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Next chapter, Kaidou one shots the scabbards in a single move. Those samurais have zero idea of who they’re dealing with.
With waht Kinemon and Izo say to eachother, they sure have an idea.
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Welp, that's not where I expected the cover story to go. Pretty funny twist, but I'm stilling waiting on the big plot or lore thing that makes it all worthwhile. Lola and Chiffon's reunion alone doesn't feel like enough.
The handling of Kanjuro so completely offscreen is an odd choice. I'm not going to say he needed a particularly drawn out battle, but there could have been a way to show a bit more of it. Maybe instead of a group of random Beasts Pirates, Kan confronts the Scabbards either alone or with just his own paintings, so the montage of the gang fighting in the last chapter could have been more focussed on him. And you know, cut back in to the final hit landing rather than it already being done. Just changing that first panel of the chapter to one of Kiku coming through on the far side of him, the final attack just landed, or putting more evidence of it in the panels with her crying last chapter instead of using them for a cheap cliffhanger would make it feel a lot more like the battle really happened. But the bottom line is that Kanjuro was never shown as a fighter, not even when we did see him as an ally, and his part in the story is pretty close to done. If these are all the panels Oda can spare for him, so be it.
It's hard to say if Kanjuro or Orochi will be back at this point. The opening acts of Wano were so Kurozumi-focussed it was easy to see them as the real villains rather than Kaido. Would it cheapen the real boss's takeover to have them holding on. I could see something along the lines of Orochi's extra heads going berserk without the influence of the main one and acting as a background source of chaos and threat to fodder while the right fights happen. Maybe an injured Kanjuro swoops in to finish him in a mutually-assured moment of death, closing the curtain on the Kurozumi dynasty once and for all. But that's just a spitball idea for an arc that already has more than enough going on.
The Nami and Carrot moment is another one that has been handled oddly over the last two chapters. Last week it was really ambiguous whether they'd been beaten and left behind somewhere, or whether they were being dragged behind O-Lin or what. A panel or two might have been saved if they were shown in the hands of the Homies like this last week instead of making a mystery of it.
We spend the next few pages in what I assume will be the last bit of downtime for a while, building up to Momo's big moment and making sure everyone is where they need to be for the big battle (while leaving a few like Sanji, Franky and Brook ambiguous so they can be played as wildcards when needed). How in character that even with a mech to protect them, Usopp and Chopper have ended up in a storeroom, presumably to hide.
Momo's memory of Luffy seems to reference chapter 701, but his talons getting in Luffy's mouth wasn't onscreen in the manga, and the wording is slightly different. "I'm gonna be the King of the Pirates one day" in chapter 701 vs "one day, I'm gonna be King of the Pirates" here. Oda's mistake, or a quirk of the translation? I wonder if it'll be changed for the volume release.
I don't love Yamao as Luffy's nickname for Yamato. It's not quite different enough from his actual name, and doesn't fir the English release's stylings for Luffy's other big nicknames. Traffy and Jaggy should make Yamato "Yammy" shouldn't it? That said, I do feel validated that the Japanese behind the nickname suggests Luffy is respecting Yamato's self-image and talking about him in masculine terms. Good on him.
And finally Momo gets his moment, shows his confidence and really starts becoming the man he was meant to be. From that moment on, Kaido's fate is sealed, because we know there's nothing that gets Luffy going more than a sincere show of conviction from someone without the strength to follow through personally. We know he's gonna get right in there to back up the young Shogun's words when no one else can. But as he explains to Yamato, it isn't his fight. There's others who've earned the chance to try first. And try they do. I really love how the Sunacchi thing has come together. It seemed like a throwaway moment early on, even with Kiku reacting in such a strong way when Momo said it, but bringing back the "surrender your name" part of the meaning right as Momo refuses to surrender his own is beautiful storytelling. Props to Oda. Of all the things in early Wano I was expecting to be super impressed by the payoff for, this was not one of them. Not much I can say about the final spread except that it's absolutely gorgeous. Both in terms of story payoff and of the actual art with so many characters and moving objects all at once.
The ending obviously starts the battle, but leaves it wide open as to how it will progress. Kaido falling all the way to the party floor and starting to brawl side by side with Big Mom feels just as likely as him transforming mid-fall and flying around the roof with the Scabbards clinging to his back, spitting death as he circles. Either way, shit's going _down_.
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Very excited for next week chapter , I Think we will see anger of the king of the beast