Anyways, is another "5 KNOWN flying devil fruits", she doesn't have tengu, skyfolks or any flavor of giants.
Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !
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Greg I know you said you won't spoil the movie but some people are saying that we got a new romanization for Raftel to being to like laugh tale
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Greg I know you said you won't spoil the movie but some people are saying that we got a new romanization for Raftel to being to like laugh tale
Greg himself confirmed it on twitter.
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Wait what. Oh that is significantly less cool sounding than Raftel.
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…new romanization for Raftel to being to like laugh tale
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Don't mean to disappoint but while exciting for what we'll see down the road, I get the feeling it's just a simple case of Oda thinking something would be fun and ran with it spur of the moment. We didn't get a specific hint to that end during WCI so it seems very much like he and Takano checked past material to make sure it wouldn't contradict anything and went with it.
AWWW man! I was really hoping Luffy would get one of these mysterious races as the last crew member or a Grand Fleet captain, I want more non human characters
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http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-WvzjZ9yU9gI/UmjReOtfXJI/AAAAAAAABwY/pgobqPbKMLw/s400/OP339-03.JPG
The wikia has probably already changed it….
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I mean, I like the implications of the new name. Maybe it's a throwback to Jaya when everyone laughed at Luffy's dream. Raftel is so impossible that it is considered a laughing tale… Nice meaning but difficult to addapt to this name
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This post is deleted!
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Greg is Bullet on the level of the Yonko ?
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So Mihawk, the holy land, BB's swordsman and the final island all got hit with the late game new spelling stick. My inner conservative wants to reject anything that is different from what i grew up with, but eh it is what it is
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So Mihawk, the holy land, BB's swordsman and the final island all got hit with the late game new spelling stick. My inner conservative wants to reject anything that is different from what i grew up with, but eh it is what it is
You want to tell me that Julakulil Mihawk isn't legit anymore?
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You want to tell me that Julakulil Mihawk isn't legit anymore?
Juraquille 4 life. Gave him that Frenchy feel.
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I thought Raftel was a cool name but LaughtTale is much better.
It reminds me of early OP, something that could have been said in East Blue. -
Tough to say regarding Haki but in pure strength it's possible to argue he's stronger than Mom considering how he handles Bege.
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Laftel, Levely, Loguetown… Oda always seems to drop an L where it seemed most logical to romanise with an R.
Maybe Zolo isn't so far off the mark after all
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Do you also think he'll try to outdo the Stampede fight in Wano ?
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It's his job to do exactly that and if he doesn't, that would be a huge letdown.
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It's his job to do exactly that and if he doesn't, that would be a huge letdown.
Is there any chance of Luffy Law and Kid teaming up in a battle in the future? Like as a throwback to Sabody and also to show how far they've come and our still rivals? Probably not against Kaido cause of the whole legend of Momotaro thing though
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But in the anime is pronounced Raftel,right?
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But in the anime is pronounced Raftel,right?
Yes, but that's how you would say "Laugh Tale" in Japanese.
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But in the anime is pronounced Raftel,right?
Japanese combines the L and R sounds, as a result there are some words that when translated to English could have two totally different spellings, regardless of how they sound when pronounced or written in Japanese..
There's a similar issue with Rouguetown/Louguetown (Did he intend Rouge as in criminal, or Louge as in prologue and epilogue?) and a few other spots.
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Well, we had (epi)logue town for a while. raftel was probably related to that from the begining.
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I'll reject Laughtel until I see the movie tho. Out of sheer anger.
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
It is irrational anger out of logical but late change.
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But in the anime is pronounced Raftel,right?
In the movie a lot of characters emphasize the L at the beginning and the break between Laugh Tale, so it certainly seems to be an intentional change from this point on.
Of course this is all relative due to how Ls and Rs blend in Japanese, but I still noticed a bit of a difference in the movie.
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There's a similar issue with Rouguetown/Louguetown (Did he intend Rouge as in criminal, or Louge as in prologue and epilogue?) and a few other spots.
I love the idea of Logue as in pro/epilogue, I think it fits really well with the story and the town's role in it, but isn't the Japanese name written with the long ou sound of Rogue? I'm no Japanese expert, but surely there would have been a way to write it with the shorder, harder o of pro/epilogue if that was what Oda intended.
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I love the idea of Logue as in pro/epilogue, I think it fits really well with the story and the town's role in it, but isn't the Japanese name written with the long ou sound of Rogue? I'm no Japanese expert, but surely there would have been a way to write it with the shorder, harder o of pro/epilogue if that was what Oda intended.
First, as I already noted, translation is a crazy thing. There's not always a correct answer and its up to the local translator that's fluent in the language to make that call. As a result you can get a case like Jinbe/Jinbei/Jimbei where all are perfectly correct spellings. Meanwhile, Franky is officially Franky, but Flanky pops up from time to time and is clearly wrong.
Second, Oda himself is not a fluent English speaker. 99.9% of the time author's intent is king, but not when it comes to different languages if they don't have a firm grasp on it or a pro translator helping them. A really clear example of this is Shilliew. The English translation made that "Shiryu" as is appropriate. The Japanese manga then later printed in english block letters "Shilliew". Ten years later, the data cards also went with "Shilliew", confirming that spelling. And then, just a couple weeks after that, he showed up in the manga again, and suddenly, in big english block letters, it was "Shiryu". Somewhere along the way, apparently very recently, Oda had someone tell him what it should be in English, and he changed it. Even though just a few weeks prior in the datacards it was different.
Then there's other cases. 99.9% of the time, you DON'T translate a character's name. Because it's their name. We don't call Nami "Wave". But then you get Shirohige and Kurohige, Whitebeard and Blackbeard, and their names get translated for obvious reasons. Same with Inurashi and Nekomamushi… they became Dogstorm and Catviper. Because their names ARE specifically descriptors, you're meant to parse the meaning of their names as a native speaker and that gets lost. Yet similar named character Inuyasha, in the manga Inuyasha, doesn't get that translated and keeps his name. And Wanda didn't become "Barkda".
Or you have a character like Rocks, which the translation makes into Rox just to be clear it's a name.
There's a huge variety of things to consider in a translation.
So yes, in theory he could have spelled Raftel in way that would clearly have all along translated in Laugh Tale. But, that would assume he was fluent in English, he cared about the English speaking audience, he understood how weird that would sound in English to a native speaker, and that it was an idea he had 22 years ago rather than recently. And that's a lot of assumptions to make on a translation issue when his main concern is the Japanese audience..
I still think of Berserk where it's been Band of the Hawks for decades, in the anime, manga, merchandise, both english and japanese, and then a few years ago Muira revealed it was actually a long term star wars joke, so it was always supposed to be Band of the Falcon. A huge huge difference in sound and meaning... but that was the same in Japanese so it never really mattered or came up until there was an explicit "Millennium Falcon" reference. (Translations dealt with this by making the flashback group the Hawks, and the post-eclipse group the Falcons.)
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I remember talking about this when I 1st got the volume sets. There was some trivia in the 1st volume about the origins of the jolly roger and what it meant. It derived from the French term Jolie Rouge which means Red Lovely. It is a reference to blood.
Then it said that the name and word Roger comes from the word rogue, which means thief or villain. Then it lastly says that in theory, Jolly Roger might mean Old Roger, which was used to refer to the Devil.
When it comes to Romance, there are many meanings, so it's a pun.
- satisfaction in the journey and mystery - Skypiea etc
- the bonds formed through principles and will like with Luffy and Kata
Even tho Rouge and Rogue are different, they can still possibly derive from the same source
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No difference in pronunciation of the 'final island' name in the movie as compared to the rest of the series. Not like they say it every week of course but nothing hit the Japanese fans I saw it with as different either.
There wasn't a difference of pronunciation denoted in the script and I doubt the VAs paid much attention to even if they saw finished animation while recording.
Same as always.
When it comes to Romance, there are many meanings, so it's a pun.
That's not a pun though.
A pun is a humorous play on words.
I think what you're looking for is double entente but it's not that either. It's simply one definition of romance. It hits Westerners as uncommon because of how we've come to prefer one definition, but the Japanese term 'roman' is exclusively used for pursuing a dream/passion. -
True, double entendre is correct and pun is incorrect here.
As a Westerner, I don't find it weird if the themes apply to that 1 definition. I feel like the trivia applies to Logue/Rogue town tho due to Roger's name and the theories provided
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First, as I already noted, translation is a crazy thing. There's not always a correct answer and its up to the local translator that's fluent in the language to make that call. As a result you can get a case like Jinbe/Jinbei/Jimbei where all are perfectly correct spellings. Meanwhile, Franky is officially Franky, but Flanky pops up from time to time and is clearly wrong.
Second, Oda himself is not a fluent English speaker. 99.9% of the time author's intent is king, but not when it comes to different languages if they don't have a firm grasp on it or a pro translator helping them. A really clear example of this is Shilliew. The English translation made that "Shiryu" as is appropriate. The Japanese manga then later printed in english block letters "Shilliew". Ten years later, the data cards also went with "Shilliew", confirming that spelling. And then, just a couple weeks after that, he showed up in the manga again, and suddenly, in big english block letters, it was "Shiryu". Somewhere along the way, apparently very recently, Oda had someone tell him what it should be in English, and he changed it. Even though just a few weeks prior in the datacards it was different.
Then there's other cases. 99.9% of the time, you DON'T translate a character's name. Because it's their name. We don't call Nami "Wave". But then you get Shirohige and Kurohige, Whitebeard and Blackbeard, and their names get translated for obvious reasons. Same with Inurashi and Nekomamushi… they became Dogstorm and Catviper. Because their names ARE specifically descriptors, you're meant to parse the meaning of their names as a native speaker and that gets lost. Yet similar named character Inuyasha, in the manga Inuyasha, doesn't get that translated and keeps his name. And Wanda didn't become "Barkda".
Or you have a character like Rocks, which the translation makes into Rox just to be clear it's a name.
There's a huge variety of things to consider in a translation.
So yes, in theory he could have spelled Raftel in way that would clearly have all along translated in Laugh Tale. But, that would assume he was fluent in English, he cared about the English speaking audience, he understood how weird that would sound in English to a native speaker, and that it was an idea he had 22 years ago rather than recently. And that's a lot of assumptions to make on a translation issue when his main concern is the Japanese audience..
I still think of Berserk where it's been Band of the Hawks for decades, in the anime, manga, merchandise, both english and japanese, and then a few years ago Muira revealed it was actually a long term star wars joke, so it was always supposed to be Band of the Falcon. A huge huge difference in sound and meaning... but that was the same in Japanese so it never really mattered or came up until there was an explicit "Millennium Falcon" reference. (Translations dealt with this by making the flashback group the Hawks, and the post-eclipse group the Falcons.)
I've made a lot of the same arguments in discussions about translation. We're on exactly the same page regarding translation philosophy.
The point I was going for was that in the specific case of Loguetown/Roguetown it can't just be an L and R swap. The word rogue, with its longer oh sound in the middle has a pretty noticeable difference in pronunciation to prologue, with the harder log at the end. The Japanese text, which operates in a mainly phonetic sense with foreign words, clearly indicates the former pronunciation.
Unless of course it is because Oda isn't a native English speaker and he heard rogue then saw prologue and made the reasonable but wrong assumption they'd be pronounced the same in which case I don't even know.
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Those words are different if you're saying them out loud, in english, and you know the difference as a native speaker. But if its a foreign language to you? And you're reading it? Eh. Super easy to mix up.
Hell, I'm an english native and i mix up rogue and rouge constantly, which is bad for the One Piece character whose name I can never spell right as a result. I know they're pronounced differently, one is rowg and the other is ruhsh but I have a hard time with which is which and spell check does not help..
What's the difference between principle and principal?
Can you desert someone in a desert?
Is a minute a minute amount of time?
Can you entrance someone with your entrance?
Is there no time like the present to present a friend with a present?
Why is six afraid of seven? Because seven ate nine.
Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo.In Japanese what's the difference between biru and bi-ru? Okashi and okashii?
In French, what is the difference between Un verre, un Ver, Vers, un vers, and vert?
How do you pronounce the name of the Batman villain Ra's al Ghul?Language is tough and nuance is even tougher. Especially in a foreign language you don't speak fluently. Expecting any author whose native language is something else to get all the nuance in a language you understand is asking a lot. And doubly so in English which is super crazy because its a mix of loan words.
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Those words are different if you're saying them out loud, in english, and you know the difference as a native speaker. But if its a foreign language to you? And you're reading it? Eh. Super easy to mix up.
Hell, I'm an english native and i mix up rogue and rouge constantly, which is bad for the One Piece character whose name I can never spell right as a result.
What's the difference between principle and principal?
Can you desert someone in a desert?
Is a minute a minute amount of time?
Can you entrance someone with your entrance?
Is there no time like the present to present a friend with a present?
Why is six afraid of seven? Because seven ate nine.In Japanese what's the difference between biru and bi-ru? Okashi and okashii? In French, what is the difference between Un verre, un Ver, Vers, un vers, and vert?
Language is tough and nuance is even tougher. Especially in a foreign language you don't speak fluently. Expecting any author whose native language is something else to get all the nuance in a language you understand is asking a lot. And doubly so in English which is super crazy because its a mix of loan words.
Keep in mind, that this is a real sentence that means something.
"Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo."Real sentence, that describes bison hanging out in a city intimidating other bison from the city.
So yeah, basically the last line of my previous comment
And it's a fair take, English has enough stupid inconsistencies to deal with before you even start working translation into the mix. I write professionally and there's things I still get wrong, a lot of them to do with pronouncing things the way they're written. Alright, maybe I was harsh on the prologue/epilogue angle. We know finding the right way to translate One Piece is hard for us, but I think it ends up getting easy to forget how hard it must be for Oda to set up in the first place as well. I doubt I'd do half as well as he does with English if I had to write with Japanese loanwords…
And I do love that buffalo sentence. Great example of how weird things can get around here. Although, the Chinese have us beat with their story that's just 90 different inflections on _shi_ in a row.
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True, double entendre is correct and pun is incorrect here.
As a Westerner, I don't find it weird if the themes apply to that 1 definition. I feel like the trivia applies to Logue/Rogue town tho due to Roger's name and the theories provided
[qimg]https://imgur.com/hejF3ee[/qimg]https://imgur.com/hejF3ee
Ah! No, sorry if I wasn't clear. What I meant was, it wasn't intended to be anything but the 'following a dream' meaning in Japanese so prob not a case of a hidden meaning.
But! The epi-logue and pro-logue things could totally be hidden on purpose.
Then again, stranger coincidences have occurred…like 'Luff' being a nautical term completely unbeknownst to Oda!!! (^o^)
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I'm always thinking about that Rick and Morty "if you want good words date a languager" quote when Oda does something weird in quasi-english. For all his talent it's only fair that he too is terrible at some facet of life.
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I'm always thinking about that Rick and Morty "if you want good words date a languager" quote when Oda does something weird in quasi-english. For all his talent it's only fair that he too is terrible at some facet of life.
Years ago he told me he said he doesn't need to learn another language because eventually there will be a translator device you hold in your hand.
Dude is not far off the mark. We're getting there.
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In my opinion he is far off the mark, because even if humanity gets real-time translation that erases current bounderies of communication (which would be awesome), it's very different to actually learn another language and its grammar, logic, structures and idiosyncrasies. That said, I understand that learning another language demands a lot of time and effort, so it's understandable why Oda would be waiting for technology to help him.
Though I must say that while society waits for such an app, I don't understand why WSJ doesn't have part-time translators/consultants dedicated to help authors with romanization and other stuff for the official japanese release.
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Nah mate.
It's coming. Still a while but it'll happen.We have robots doing backflips, AI that will soon surpass humans, and many adults in developed countries hold a device in their palms they can use to communicate via vide with people around the world gratis.
All stuff that sounded impossible when I was a kid.
The leaps and bounds in Google translate are already remarkable. I give it another 15 years max at this rate.
I mean…. we already have apps that real-time translate printed text in real life.
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Until you can put a thing in your body that auto translate both the input and output it ain't enough for me
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Another excuse for the government to invade my privacy. I'm still gonna buy it tho
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Nah mate.
It's coming. Still a while but it'll happen.We have robots doing backflips, AI that will soon surpass humans, and many adults in developed countries hold a device in their palms they can use to communicate via vide with people around the world gratis.
All stuff that sounded impossible when I was a kid.
The leaps and bounds in Google translate are already remarkable. I give it another 15 years max at this rate.
I mean…. we already have apps that real-time translate printed text in real life.
You are misunderstanding me, or perhaps I didn't make myself clear.
Of course this technology will come soon enough, no doubt about it… I just disagree with this idea that you don't need to learn another language just because a new app can make real-time translation. I don't deny that this kind of technology is really useful and it'll be great for society, but that doesn't take away from a lot you can benefit by actually learning a new language. Also, languages are complicated and translations are never 100%.
It pains me to think that people would stop studying new languages in 20 years just because of an app.
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I tots agree that learning a language is a good thing. Don't think I suggested otherwise. But…
Also, languages are complicated and translations are never 100%.
Not right now, no. But they will be. And Oda had the confidence to state that with authority before we had apps that literally translate real life for us. That's all I'm saying :)
Teaching a language is literally my job so if anyone should be sour it's me ^O^ But I'm not going to deny the inevitability of what will happen.
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unless some revolutionary discovery is made, we are not at all on the path of creating good machine translators lmao
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unless some revolutionary discovery is made
That's it folks. You heard Lord Gaimon, pack it in. There's nothing more to discover.
RIP
Revolutionary Discoveries
Dawn of Tools - 2019 lol
I gave up on the, "There's no way that's possible!", hard-stance in life when they announced they're getting closer to recording mental images and the means by which it's accomplished is remarkable: massive video databases that attempt to replicate what an individual is thinking. Imagine when that's fine-tuned 100 years from now and instantly searching yottabytes of video from the entirety of human history can be done by consumer devices.Once enough search algorithms are added and biological states are interpreted by AI systems indicating purpose and context, it will happen.
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My mind is still blown by video conferencing technology. That was complete science fiction just 20 years ago, and the internet was still kind of a new thing, now its standard on every laptop. Laptops which were themselves basically science fiction 30 years ago.
Technology keeps progressing. Just look at the AI they have playing Go. A few years ago they said it would be impossible for a machine to ever master that game because it took human intuition, (unlike Chess which has a small enough board its solvable) but lo, they now have Alpha Go which is leagues better than any human player that has ever lived and is basically unbeatable even by grandmasters…. except for the AI that came right after it which is even better. Thousands of years of humans playing the game and the computer has it completely locked down now.
Technology is crazy. Outside of Star Trek style matter transporters, we're going to get there assuming we survive long enough as a species. We already have low end replicators in 3D printers, which can make 3D objects from a file and can even make organs now. Not the sci-fi Trek replicator, but still insane.
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From what i heard, translating a newspaper article is close but translating an author still has a lot of issues. So Stephen has still some time
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We already have low end replicators in 3D printers, which can make 3D objects from a file and can even make organs now. Not the sci-fi Trek replicator, but still insane.
The company i work at just recently started to create complicated components from 3d drawings using metal powders that are molten and combined through a high degree laser, so yeah, technology is definitely progressing…
Regarding translation, we already have this, so i have no doubt that we will get there eventually. The only translators that might stay relevant are those that will try to keep the artistic meaning of a piece of medium, which might be related to a specific feeling that the original creator is aiming for, or a specific context an AI might not recognize.
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If that is the current state of technology we probably won't get to what i would consider to a genuine mean of global communication within my life time. Functional i suppose, but nah i'd feel silly running around like that
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If that is the current state of technology we probably won't get to what i would consider to a genuine mean of global communication within my life time. Functional i suppose, but nah i'd feel silly running around like that
Is it running around speaking into a device or the voice of it?
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Is it running around speaking into a device or the voice of it?
The whole thing of having a middleman stall any potential conversation just ruins the appeal of it. Like imagine your sitting on the steps of some romantic place, her head resting on your shoulder and then when you want to whisper those sweet nothings in her ear you gotta pull out the hello kitty computer and wait a few seconds for it to parse your words. This isn't even remotely close to replacing a human conversation. Like for i'd like a hot dog please it is workable, but beyond that it needs alot of work. Dunno maybe i'm just being an anti-technology grump here
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You must be over your 80s then. The thing with technology is that once the barrier of "new" is broken. Innovation on it becomes much simpler as you are not trying to make it work, but optimize it. So even though "instant translation implant" sounds so far away. If we see where each of this individual components are at, it is much easier to realize we are not as far away as we think.
- Translation apps. Just a matter of feeding enough data sets, to increase the quality.
- Implants. Ear implants to help with hearing aid already exist. Earpieces connected to your phone already exist. It is more likely to see the latter being implemented with translator apps.
https://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/coolest-biohacking-implants/
I can agree that looking at the examples above, some might not seem as clean for the ideal communication. Look at the example of the guy that did an implant on himself. But if we are implanting sensors to detect north. Then programming those sensors, and giving them access to a language AI does not seem like 50 years from now.
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Ah you were refering more of the speaking part. I find that is a much harder problem to tackle and do not see a clean solution besides writing what you want to say before and then getting it translated into your ear for now.
The main issue I see right now is the "double audio" of when you would say it, and then have either an AI or your voice audio say the translated bit again.
So the better solution would be to do it through brain wave manipulation/translation.
https://fortune.com/2019/05/07/artificial-intelligence-mind-reading-technology/