! But Wolfwood is dead.:ninja:
He shall be missed.
There's still time for Carrot to become relevant
Fixed that for ya.
! But Wolfwood is dead.:ninja:
He shall be missed.
There's still time for Carrot to become relevant
Fixed that for ya.
All I'm saying is that Carrot's with a group that is barely getting any focus right now because the narrative is centered on other plot threads, but I think it inevitable that the plot will come back around to give them (and her) screen time sooner or later.
THAT'S the time that she will either take center stage again or fail to do so and fall by the proverbial wayside.
Was Carrot even in the last few chapters? I honestly can't remember seeing her.
She popped up in the panel where Inuarashi's informing Kinemon that the rebellion's secret card and crescent moon symbol have been leaked to the enemy.
All I'm saying is that Carrot's with a group that is barely getting any focus right now because the narrative is centered on other plot threads, but I think it inevitable that the plot will come back around to give them (and her) screen time sooner or later.
THAT'S the time that she will either take center stage again or fail to do so and fall by the proverbial wayside.
Sure, the minks will get their time to shine. But it's hard to ignore the fact that the important characters who are not being focused yet at least keep getting updates here and there while she got what? Two generic lines so far - we compared her handling with Momo, who was bound to become a central figure in the arc despite still not being quite there, but even if Oda has not put Momo in a central place yet he constantly kept bringing him back even if just to remind us of his presence, something he hadn't bothered to do with her.
Prior to the arrival of "O-lin", I'd agree that there was fairly little going on with Momonosuke, but he's currently part of a 5-man wrecking ball heading straight for the prison to bust out Luffy. Even if they're still a ways out, I'd say he's involved in something pretty big at the moment.
The moment the Minks get involved could similarly change Carrot's situation. I'm not so blindly "Carrot4Nakama!!!" to say it inevitably WILL, but the sheer scope of the arc makes me hesitant to write her off just for lack of recent screen time.
Especially since people involved in Pedro's death (Perospero, in particular) ended up following her to Wano. There are plot devices on hand perfectly suited to giving Carrot the development she needs to become "Nakama-ready". It's just a question of IF and HOW Oda chooses to use them.
That's my thoughts on the matter, at least…
I still assume carrot will join the grand fleet as captain of the Nox pirates
The 4 main narratives so far
Whatever Zoro is about to get into over Shusui, plus Komurasaki and Toki protection.
Prison Mine escape
Gathering allies, weapons and intel
Managing/babysitting Linlin
I don't expect Carrot to be a big part of that with the SH since she only came along to Totland in order to rescue Sanji. For now, it makes perfect sense to stick with the other Minks because it isn't the Fire Festival yet. It wouldn't be out of nowhere if she was asked to come along after all of this is done. Especially after helping during the Sanji mission.
When these 4 narratives converge, then I think the Festival will start. It looks like the funeral might be another thing to look forward to before the Festival.
Another thing, as far as panel time. I remember Nami went missing towards the beginning of the Baratie arc, right when Mihawk appeared. She didn't really join until AP. Before that she was just using the crew. For at least 15 chapters, she wasn't present. Is panel time or immediate relevance a confirmed requirement to be a candidate?
It hasn't exactly been riveting seeing Carrot as little more than a mouthpiece lately. Though I certainly haven't given up on her with at least another 50 chapters of opportunity ahead, she frankly hasn't been given much to do or say. Her relevance came with Pedro's sacrifice, and it's seemingly left with the falling action of that sacrifice. For the moment, she just seems content playing second fiddle to Dogstorm and not bringing up Pedro again. There was always the chance of reading too much into her time on the ship, despite how I still think there was some chemistry at work. As always, we'll see.
Add to that a whole year passing without a word from Jinbe, and this whole thing has been downright depressing. But he'll come back soon enough, I suppose. Why he can't just be here now, I can't fathom, but soon.
It's funny how the main argument for Carrot is basically "She will get some more development! Possibly. Soon-ish. If Oda feels like it."
It's funny how the main argument for Carrot is basically "She will get some more development! Possibly. Soon-ish. If Oda feels like it."
Fancy that, characters needing some development before joining the crew. Because we've never seen that as a necessity before, have we?
The main argument, in my eyes, is that she HAD development, major development, during the entire escape from Big Mom. The issue is that she's now being used incredibly sparingly. That doesn't indicate whether she'll someday be relevant or not, only that she can't be expected to join right this minute.
Maybe it will happen, maybe it won't. The point is, there are reasons that we've pointed out long ago to think that, yes, maybe it will.
Fancy that, characters needing some development before joining the crew. Because we've never seen that as a necessity before, have we? The main argument, in my eyes, is that she HAD development, major development, during the entire escape from Big Mom.
Oh, certainly! It has just become a running joke at this point, constantly seeing more development for Carrot in the future. To me, during the entire escape from Big Mom, Carrot saw some spotlight, yes. As a hypetool for the Minks' Sulong, not for her own character. But this discussion has been going in circles for too long and there is nothing new to add, so we probably can just leave it at that.
The issue is that she's now being used incredibly sparingly. That doesn't indicate whether she'll someday be relevant or not, only that she can't be expected to join right this minute.
Maybe it will happen, maybe it won't. The point is, there are reasons that we've pointed out long ago to think that, yes, maybe it will.
I feel like if your stance on Carrot joining is "maybe she will, maybe she won't" then you're not all too convinced yourself anymore, which speaks for itself.
Oh, certainly! It has just become a running joke at this point, constantly seeing more development for Carrot in the future. To me, during the entire escape from Big Mom, Carrot saw some spotlight, yes. As a hypetool for the Minks' Sulong, not for her own character. But this discussion has been going in circles for too long and there is nothing new to add, so we probably can just leave it at that.
I feel like if your stance on Carrot joining is "maybe she will, maybe she won't" then you're not all too convinced yourself anymore, which speaks for itself.
I’m on the maybe she will, maybe she won’t part but that’s WAAAAYYYYY more than I can say for any other character… Like seriously as far as I can tell, if there’s anyone joining after Jinbei then it’s Carrot like it’s way too we’ll set up... And unless Oda is planning an elaborate bait and switch then it’s definitely Carrot... And even if it’s a red herring, for now Oda is deliberately still trying to sell her so it’s still obvious that Oda wants us to think this
Oh, certainly! It has just become a running joke at this point, constantly seeing more development for Carrot in the future. To me, during the entire escape from Big Mom, Carrot saw some spotlight, yes. As a hypetool for the Minks' Sulong, not for her own character. But this discussion has been going in circles for too long and there is nothing new to add, so we probably can just leave it at that.
I feel like if your stance on Carrot joining is "maybe she will, maybe she won't" then you're not all too convinced yourself anymore, which speaks for itself.
Just because I acknowledge room for doubt doesn't mean I have any doubts myself. I still think out of everyone in Wano right now, she has the best chance.
If you actually want to leave it at that, that's fine: I also don't think there's much to talk about at the moment. But don't go turning around the following sentence to put words in my mouth: I placed my bet on Carrot and that's where it's staying.
Just because I acknowledge room for doubt doesn't mean I have any doubts myself. I still think out of everyone in Wano right now, she has the best chance.
If you actually want to leave it at that, that's fine: I also don't think there's much to talk about at the moment. But don't go turning around the following sentence to put words in my mouth: I placed my bet on Carrot and that's where it's staying.
You should copyright that, man. I know a lot of people who'd steal that and claim it for themselves.
And Wano has plenty of people with potential and skills that the other Straw Hats don't necessarily have themselves, while Carrot brings nothing new whatsoever to the table.
You should copyright that, man. I know a lot of people who'd steal that and claim it for themselves.
Um…thanks?
It just goes back to what I've said all along: I know there's no perfect evidence of her joining. I know there's a lot of faith involved, a lot of reading between the lines. I've said time and again that I could be dead wrong about her. But I don't have any problems with keeping the faith, holding out to the end of Wano to lay down my sword and let it go. Jinbe's my 9th, Carrot's my 10th, and none of the samurai or ninja have changed that for me. That's all there is to it until the bitter end.
Yo Shift!
Do you feel emotionally invested in Carrot joining? Like if it doesnt happen, would it affect your opinion on the series?
Yo Shift!
Do you feel emotionally invested in Carrot joining? Like if it doesnt happen, would it affect your opinion on the series?
Negative on that. I'm sure the 10th will be a perfect fit, whether it's Carrot or someone else. I just happen to think it is Carrot, that's all.
Alright, just figured id ask because of your avatar and sig.
Alright, just figured id ask because of your avatar and sig.
What can I say? I like to wear my convictions like a badge of honor.
Nothing says shoe in like the lack of anyone even less interesting
Nothing says shoe in like the lack of anyone even less interesting
in before some poster says what about Jinbe
Um…thanks?
It just goes back to what I've said all along: I know there's no perfect evidence of her joining. I know there's a lot of faith involved, a lot of reading between the lines. I've said time and again that I could be dead wrong about her. But I don't have any problems with keeping the faith, holding out to the end of Wano to lay down my sword and let it go. Jinbe's my 9th, Carrot's my 10th, and none of the samurai or ninja have changed that for me. That's all there is to it until the bitter end.
I feel like one of those as yet unseen but hyped up ninja is waiting in the wings to be that new ray of hope. They're the perfect candidate for someone who actually has something new to bring to the table without a cumbersome DF weakness and potential for a unique look.
It's funny how the main argument for Carrot is basically "She will get some more development! Possibly. Soon-ish. If Oda feels like it."
Robin joined the crew with almost no development. All we knew is she spared Luffy's life, and Luffy spared hers. She didn't even have a history until after their next big arc.
Brook is still mysterious and hasn't has an arc since he's joined the crew. We know he has that whole battle convoy leader backstory yet to be explained.
And Wano has plenty of people with potential and skills that the other Straw Hats don't necessarily have themselves, while Carrot brings nothing new whatsoever to the table.
Eh. I don't think people with potential skills is a good measure for anything. So far there's no one on Wano that outright has that 'Strawhat' spark. Carrot, surprisingly, has been given quite a bit of that. She's adventurous, she has quirks, and she holds her own in a fight. Most of the characters in Wano are very traditional and tied to their stations, they aren't exactly looking to go on an adventure.
I'm totally open to a Wano character joining the crew if someone fits, but as far as we've seen there's no one that I see screaming 'Strawhat material' the way Carrot or Jinbei do.
I feel like one of those as yet unseen but hyped up ninja is waiting in the wings to be that new ray of hope. They're the perfect candidate for someone who actually has something new to bring to the table without a cumbersome DF weakness and potential for a unique look.
If there were to be an interesting ninja candidate, by now should we not have met them along with either Raizou or Shinobu, though?
I keep up my hopes that Wano has some good nakama material in store, but I don't see any at the moment. Plus, between Jinbe taking forever to join and the Grand Fleet / supernova alliances gradually emerging, I'm beginning to wonder if Oda even wants a tenth crew member.
As for Carrot… Her spark didn't quite grow on me, honestly. In fact I'd prefer if she turned out to be the traitor mink and some ruthless figure of the Beast Pirates. That would be new and an unexpected twist, at least.
You know what you've sold me on the carrot is a cruel monster twist.
I'll have one of those please
All the ninjas are basically memes in the kind of way where oda usually has said character do sonething cool right off the bat and so far they've mainly been used comedically. I doubt one of the three samurai or another ninja will join
Robin joined the crew with almost no development. All we knew is she spared Luffy's life, and Luffy spared hers. She didn't even have a history until after their next big arc.
Brook is still mysterious and hasn't has an arc since he's joined the crew. We know he has that whole battle convoy leader backstory yet to be explained.
We did see her going easy on the crew and Vivi in general, and Smoker alluded to her history when they were in jail, hinting that there was more to her. Then we learned a bit more about her dream in her joining chapter. She was an outlier, but Carrot's been hanging with the crew for a while now. There's no reason to expect an unorthodox joining like Robin. And with Brook, he's not that mysterious. There may be some room for expanding his backstory, but same could be said for every crewmate. Brook's convoy thing, Franky's pirate parents, Nami's lineage. We already got some for Luffy, Sanji, and now to a lesser degree Zoro. Carrot should have something, not nothing, if she joins.
Robin was more intriguing throughout her Baroque Works tenure than Carrot's current "secondary character with name" status.
I’m on the maybe she will, maybe she won’t part but that’s WAAAAYYYYY more than I can say for any other character… Like seriously as far as I can tell, if there’s anyone joining after Jinbei then it’s Carrot like it’s way too we’ll set up... And unless Oda is planning an elaborate bait and switch then it’s definitely Carrot... And even if it’s a red herring, for now Oda is deliberately still trying to sell her so it’s still obvious that Oda wants us to think this
Yes, in the same vein how 5% is greater than 0% but still ways away from 90%. Also, I fail to see how Oda is deliberately still trying to sell her or how Oda wants us to think that Carrot is going to join when she's been lacking any spotlight since her moment with Sanji.
Just because I acknowledge room for doubt doesn't mean I have any doubts myself. I still think out of everyone in Wano right now, she has the best chance.
If you actually want to leave it at that, that's fine: I also don't think there's much to talk about at the moment. But don't go turning around the following sentence to put words in my mouth: I placed my bet on Carrot and that's where it's staying.
I agree that of all the current characters in Wano, Carrot currently has the best chances of joining. To me, they're still abysmally low though.
Robin joined the crew with almost no development. All we knew is she spared Luffy's life, and Luffy spared hers. She didn't even have a history until after their next big arc.
Brook is still mysterious and hasn't has an arc since he's joined the crew. We know he has that whole battle convoy leader backstory yet to be explained.
Robin has been the odd woman out in almost every aspect, I think that much we can agree on. But in contrast to Carrot, she actually had literally life-changing one-on-one moments with Luffy. Brook had his flashback within his introduction arc and his dream spelled out, that's already a lot of development for someone who is to join.
The whole relevance/panel requirement is hit or miss. We have characters like Nami who missed 15+ chapters before getting an arc where she formally joins. So using that to say Carrot is less likely, when it doesn't apply will get you nowhere.
Not only does she have a role on the ship, she perfectly fit into different groups in the crew during the WCI arc.
I can't name 5 characters that
and still didn't formally join.
I'm not the "I want this to happen" type. I see it, so if it doesn't happen, it doesn't really matter to me. I'm 1 of the few who preferred no more after the timeskip, but that didn't stop me from seeing who could join. At the same time, I understand that some are driven by "I don't like her". Everyone can't put their bias to the side.
You guys just have to accept, that Pekoms is the best option as next nakama, especially since Big Mom came to Wano. :ninja:
For myself, Carrot was always (and remains to be) a "maybe yes/maybe no". For everything I've said in her defense, I'm really somewhere in the middle ground between the diehard Carrot4Nakama crowd and the diehard NeverCarrot crowd (though admittedly slightly closer to the former than the latter).
I like her character a great deal. She's fun and quirky in a way that I think is a good "fit" for the Strawhats without being redundant. Her fighting style, that of a speedy physical brawler, while not unique to the crew (ex: Luffy/Sanji), is nonetheless distinct enough not to overlap and taps into fond memories I have from back in the days of yore of Android 18 kicking *** and taking names in a way that Nami, Robin, and Vivi (much as I love them) do not. Her student-mentor relationship with Pedro, to say nothing of his self-sacrifice, gives a lot of symbolic weight to the Strawhats journey for her. And whatever you may think of its validity as a "crewmate role", she seamlessly integrated herself into the lookout position on the Sunny from pretty much the moment she got on-board the ship.
I fully admit that I will be somewhat disappointed if Carrot ended up remaining as a simple side character.
BUT, while I believe the Totland arc went a LONG way toward giving her enough development to warrant potential Nakama-hood, I don't believe it did quite enough. She needs more development, and Wano is where it will have to come if it's going to come at all. So far, she hasn't gotten that, but I don't yet believe that it's too late… There's still time.
If/when Oda chooses to bring her back to the forefront, I fully expect she will hit the ground running. I don't think it would take more than a couple of chapters to really bring her back up to speed.
Idk if you meant that as a joke or not, but Pekoms is possible. Just not as much as Raizo or Carrot imo. Especially how he betrayed his own to help the crew and the Pedro stuff.
Pink colour isn't taken right now, so he'd fit right in there. Sadly, the Anti-Carrot crowd said having fur is a big no-no for NNs because it's to similar to Chopper.
You're really resorting to "well Nami went missing for a little while too" as the defense for Carrot being sidelined?
Yes. Nami, the character identical to the ones in the original short stories, who was in the first chapter color spread and first volume cover, (not even Zoro was in the first chapter) who joined the series in chapter 8, who clearly had plot hook reasons for leaving that had been foreshadowed in advance, and was immediately followed by another crewmember going after her, vanishing for less than a volume is absolutely equivalent to just going off into the sidelines entirely to mingle with other background characters. Totally.
She's not even being paired up with Chopper to double up on his shtick anymore, now that there's more characters around to interact with.
Might as well start tossing out "well, there was that time during Skypiea where Luffy was in a snake" or "what about that time there was a flashback that didn't show anyone in the crew?"
Pink colour isn't taken right now, so he'd fit right in there. Sadly, the Anti-Carrot crowd said having fur is a big no-no for NNs because it's to similar to Chopper.
Funny because Chopper is supossed to be the pink one.
You just reinforced my argument lol
So Carrot going to save Sanji is super important.
But Tama going to save Luffy is not. Hmm…
I mean, not sure why are we even discussing anymore, wasn't the volume cover with carrot a: "you are in denial if you can't see it" type of proof. Ah right, it immediately went to "not any form of proof" once another character fulfilled the requirements to a T..ama.
Just keep ignoring her, and you will not see it coming. You know, because she is a ninja.
Pink Mink vs. Chapapa pet. Who would win?!
Pink Mink vs. Chapapa pet. Who would win?!
…I'm now imagining a fistfight between Pekoms and Fukuro...
I actually would kind of like to see that.
I provided Carrot's possible
and you bring up Tama. When has she been shown to fall into any of the SH crew's pace? What role has she shown to cover on the ship?
I doubt you can even see Tama on the ship? Just throwing out something that isn't plausible because Carrot possibly joining bothers you. Again, the bias is apparent. If you weren't bias, there'd be something with more credence than Tama to fill the same rational factors that I brought up. Tama barely touched 2 of them
When she gets a depressing backstory that ties into both a dream she has that needs to be fulfilled and her role on the ship, then I'll be onboard
When she gets a depressing backstory that ties into both a dream she has that needs to be fulfilled and her role on the ship, then I'll be onboard
Finally someone that's makes sense. She hasn't shown this at all imo.
I provided Carrot's possible
- role in the crew
- how she jelled and fell into multiple SH's pace
- what Toei did with the filler. Which almost no other character has gotten
- and other factors through my multiple post
and you bring up Tama. When has she been shown to fall into any of the SH crew's pace? What role has she shown to cover on the ship?
I doubt you can even see Tama on the ship? Just throwing out something that isn't plausible because Carrot possibly joining bothers you. Again, the bias is apparent. If you weren't bias, there'd be something with more credence than Tama to fill the same rational factors that I brought up. Tama barely touched 2 of them
Jajajaja bothers me? You also have not read the multitude of posts that I have made on the subject.
Bias? What bias, if anything, I am the most unbiased commenting on Carrot's crew possibilities. I have provided why I think Carrot is being groomed to be a future fleet captain in depth.
I have also admitted that her importance as a Mink might be a key factor as to why she needs to travel in the pirate king's crew. In other words, I am pretty open minded to her joining, I don't dislike her at all.
I was merely pointing out the double standards that have permeated these discussions. Where any argument was not answered in kind, debating points. It was: post Carrot's volume cover. "Keep being in denial."
Anime filler does not count, or if you want a more personal stand. Does not count for me. But it is called filler for a reason.
Tama fell in the crew's pace by joining Chopper, like Carrot once did, to save Luffy with a ticking time bomb that is Big Mom. In terms of roles, given that we have an archeologist, which is not typical of pirate crews, her role could be anything. But if you want a pirate specific one: cabin girl.
Dreams? Well her dream is the same as Carrot's go out to sea and explore the world. She wanted to go with Ace, but he died.
Anyways, you missed the point. As I already stated that I do not think Wano has a future candidate. But that does not prevent me from talking of the different characters that have been presented. Be it Tama or Carrot. I entertain both in the same category. And the point of the double standards when arguing for or against either one.
Oh, and yes, I do see her in the ship. The same way you see Carrot on the ship.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Oh yeah, depressing backstory, how about:
No parents, almost died from hunger if it were not for Luffy, her mentor/inspiration (Ace) died before fulfilling their promise. Seems pretty sad to me.
@K.:
Jajajaja bothers me? You also have not read the multitude of posts that I have made on the subject.
Bias? What bias, if anything, I am the most unbiased commenting on Carrot's crew possibilities. I have provided why I think Carrot is being groomed to be a future fleet captain in depth.
I have also admitted that her importance as a Mink might be a key factor as to why she needs to travel in the pirate king's crew. In other words, I am pretty open minded to her joining, I don't dislike her at all.
I was merely pointing out the double standards that have permeated these discussions. Where any argument was not answered in kind, debating points. It was: post Carrot's volume cover. "Keep being in denial."
Anime filler does not count, or if you want a more personal stand. Does not count for me. But it is called filler for a reason.
Tama fell in the crew's pace by joining Chopper, like Carrot once did, to save Luffy with a ticking time bomb that is Big Mom. In terms of roles, given that we have an archeologist, which is not typical of pirate crews, her role could be anything. But if you want a pirate specific one: cabin girl.
Dreams? Well her dream is the same as Carrot's go out to sea and explore the world. She wanted to go with Ace, but he died.
Anyways, you missed the point. As I already stated that I do not think Wano has a future candidate. But that does not prevent me from talking of the different characters that have been presented. Be it Tama or Carrot. I entertain both in the same category. And the point of the double standards when arguing for or against either one.
Oh, and yes, I do see her in the ship. The same way you see Carrot on the ship.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Oh yeah, depressing backstory, how about:
No parents, almost died from hunger if it were not for Luffy, her mentor/inspiration (Ace) died before fulfilling their promise. Seems pretty sad to me.
#1 Falling into their pace isn't just following them. It's their antics, habits, wavelength, etc. If you want to say that she is taking a risk by helping, ok, but that isn't falling into their pace.
#2 This is my first time seeing the cabin girl role being brought up. If that is the stance, then ok. If it was brought up before, i'd not think that there was a lack of evidence. The cabin girl role does sound kind of reach like compared to Carrot being a lookout in the Crow's Nest.
#3 The anime's filler has been used to spoil/hint things, while not changing the story that much before. Like Zoro's swords having the aura along with the armament.
#4 When I mentioned a dream, I was referring to Carrot lacking. Never Tama.
#5 When did I ever say that anyone will formally join at the end of Wano?
From the cabin girl role to the pace (which you don't get), Tama doesn't only sound like a reach still, I still highly doubt you believe it.
#1 Falling into their pace isn't just following them. It's their antics, habits, wavelength, etc. If you want to say that she is taking a risk by helping, ok, but that isn't falling into their pace.
#2 This is my first time seeing the cabin girl role being brought up. If that is the stance, then ok. If it was brought up before, i'd not think that there was a lack of evidence. The cabin girl role does sound kind of reach like compared to Carrot being a lookout in the Crow's Nest.
#3 The anime's filler has been used to spoil/hint things, while not changing the story that much before. Like Zoro's swords having the aura along with the armament.
#4 When I mentioned a dream, I was referring to Carrot lacking. Never Tama.
#5 When did I ever say that anyone will formally join at the end of Wano?
From the cabin girl role to the pace (which you don't get), Tama doesn't only sound like a reach still, I still highly doubt you believe it.
1. Tama will do more than just follow them. That was just the start of her character arc. Going against her guardian to risk it all for Luffy.
2. We have met many people that were cabin x. A lot of people were saying Momo would fill that role, I just said that role could also be filled by Tama. And she has less constraints in regards to staying in Wano. Which is what people countered Momo's cabin boy path with.
3. Do not follow the anime adaptation to know exactly which moment are you talking about. Which filler was that? And was it not shown at all in the manga as well?
4. They both have the same generic dream. That is the point.
5. You didn't, I was just stating MY position on the debate. I think that the last crewmember will join afterwards. That does not prevent me from elaborating either on Carrot's, Momo's, Tama's.
6. Again, if I don't believe anyone will join in Wano but Jimbe returning, that by extension includes Tama. Just that if people are going to argue for Carrot, then I do not see why Tama is out of that conversation. (There are users that believe Tama is the last member. Like Solid.) When Tama has a deeper connection to Luffy through her interactions with him and Ace. And now, instead of just sitting there waiting. She is actively taking a role in the liberation of Wano. Obviously it will be progressive, but her going for Luffy is a start.
So, again. The point was to highlight the double standards that go when arguing for Carrot while discrediting anything said against or for another character. That was the point to compare Carrot going to save Sanji, while Tama is doing the same but for Luffy.
@K.:
1. Tama will do more than just follow them. That was just the start of her character arc. Going against her guardian to risk it all for Luffy.
2. We have met many people that were cabin x. A lot of people were saying Momo would fill that role, I just said that role could also be filled by Tama. And she has less constraints in regards to staying in Wano. Which is what people countered Momo's cabin boy path with.
3. Do not follow the anime adaptation to know exactly which moment are you talking about. Which filler was that? And was it not shown at all in the manga as well?
4. They both have the same generic dream. That is the point.
5. You didn't, I was just stating MY position on the debate. I think that the last crewmember will join afterwards. That does not prevent me from elaborating either on Carrot's, Momo's, Tama's.
6. Again, if I don't believe anyone will join in Wano but Jimbe returning, that by extension includes Tama. Just that if people are going to argue for Carrot, then I do not see why Tama is out of that conversation. (There are users that believe Tama is the last member. Like Solid.) When Tama has a deeper connection to Luffy through her interactions with him and Ace. And now, instead of just sitting there waiting. She is actively taking a role in the liberation of Wano. Obviously it will be progressive, but her going for Luffy is a start.
So, again. The point was to highlight the double standards that go when arguing for Carrot while discrediting anything said against or for another character. That was the point to compare Carrot going to save Sanji, while Tama is doing the same but for Luffy.
- Carrot went against the Minks and boarded the Sunny to save Sanji. = Tama disobeys Tengu to go save Luffy.
- Carrot would be the lookout. = Tama would be the cabin girl.
- Carrot has a dead mentor. = Tama has a dead Ace.
- Carrot has a dream to explore the world. = Tama also wants to go out to sea.
- Carrot was displayed twice in a volume cover = Tama was displayed along all the SH.
#1 Cabin boy/apprentice hasn't been shown for Momo. He hasn't shown interest in venturing out. His goal aligns with Wano and nothing else so far. As far as Tama, it was for Ace, while Carrot was apparently and directly expressed for Luffy. Not only did she want to pay them back, she selfishly wanted to venture away from Zou. Those are selfish and honorable reasons. So her argument as an apprentice is, again, way weaker than Carrot as lookout in the Crow's Nest. Not only in role, but reasoning for joining. As you said, Tama was for Ace, no signs pointing to her wanting to go with Luffy.
#2 Why would anime filler be shown in the manga? I clearly provided an example of Zoro's aura surrounding the swords as a hint/spoiler that the anime tends to display. Then it finally appeared in the manga in 937. As for Carrot's filler moment, it was in Zou, right before Luffy grabbed Pekoms. The anime has never done that for any character.
#3 Carrot has not fully expressed a specific dream like Tama has. That is why I said that Carrot lacks there.
#4 Again, I have never formally expressed any feeling of someone joining at the end of this arc. I've actually clearly stated otherwise.
#5 Tama and Luffy's relationship is not deeper than Luffy and Carrot. Tama is through Ace and Luffy just met her. Luffy has ventured through Totland with Carrot, lost Pedro, fought side by side and Carrot has helped the crew outside of Luffy. The reason why I don't believe that anyone is serious with a Tama candidacy is because Carrot isn't even a strong candidate and her argument is way stronger is Tama.
In conclusion
So let's restart, because we are obviously not getting our points across. To clarify, a lot of my answers are not what I believe, or what I have thought about, theorized, etc. I am just telling you what has already been discussed over and over again in this and past threads.
My stance has always been: Wano will not present a new crew member. I may have thrown a quick joke prediction here and there. Regardless, my statement still stands.
#1 Cabin boy/apprentice hasn't been shown for Momo. He hasn't shown interest in venturing out. His goal aligns with Wano and nothing else so far.
The cabin boy argument for Momo was not given because of his actions in the manga. It comes directly as a response to: "if Momo joins, what would his role be". To which some members replied: cabin boy. The desires to go to sea, from what I understood, were along the lines of following his father's footsteps and traveling with the pirate king like Oden once did. If you want to add that Momo has an older sister better suited for ruling given their age gap. Momo MIGHT not need to stay in Wano, or viceversa.
Now to clarify, Momo's desire to travel like his father did does not need to happen with Luffy and the crew. Momo, his retainers and the Minks can form a different faction to do so.
As far as Tama, it was for Ace, while Carrot was apparently and directly expressed for Luffy. Not only did she want to pay them back, she selfishly wanted to venture away from Zou. Those are selfish and honorable reasons. So her argument as an apprentice is, again, way weaker than Carrot as lookout in the Crow's Nest. Not only in role, but reasoning for joining. As you said, Tama was for Ace, no signs pointing to her wanting to go with Luffy.
Ace is dead. Her desire to go to him, no matter how deep, will NEVER be fulfilled. But, what a coincidence, she is saved again by a pirate, that happens to be Ace's brother. And Luffy already reminds her of Ace even without her knowing they are related. And she cares for Luffy and what Luffy has done to help her, for her to selfishly and honorably attempt to aid in his escape instead of sitting on her ass, waiting. It is not about Ace anymore, she is thinking about Luffy. In other words: Tama is right now, in the equivalent of Carrot stowing away on the Sunny before WCI.
We are still in the part where she is going to help. We haven't seen what she will do to help. Be it to use her kibidango against Smile users, or whatever else Oda may have in store.
#2 Why would anime filler be shown in the manga?
It does not, which tends to mean, it is not to be taken as canon.
I clearly provided an example of Zoro's aura surrounding the swords as a hint/spoiler that the anime tends to display. Then it finally appeared in the manga in 937.
And I was asking, when did this happen? What episode/arc. I was at work, so I couldn't be more specific about it.
#3 Carrot has not fully expressed a specific dream like Tama has. That is why I said that Carrot lacks there.
I was saying that I find both of their dreams to be vague.
#4 Again, I have never formally expressed any feeling of someone joining at the end of this arc. I've actually clearly stated otherwise.
That's okay. Me neither. The point was that even without doing so, we both can talk about what other people express as their candidates. And criticize, agree/disagree with those points without having an investment in the argument. To me, someone that believes we have not met the new crew member yet, see both Carrot and Tama in the same plane for candidacy. You disagree, and that is fine! It does not mean what you say is a joke, nor what I say is a joke. As I showed with Carrot = Tama points above, to me, it is the same.
#5 Tama and Luffy's relationship is not deeper than Luffy and Carrot.
I disagree. Luffy and Tama are both clearly invested in each other. Luffy exposed himself to save Tama, something that I am sure he would do for Carrot too. In the short amount of time Tama has been with Luffy, she already gave him her only food forcing her to drink poisonous water. Luffy has saved her three times. Luffy HAS made a promise to her that she will be able to eat a lot more food once Wano is over. Just because the relationship is in development does not mean it will not be there, or that it is not. If you want to compare Luffy and Carrot relationship in their first 30 chapters, there is nothing. That is not even taking into consideration that Luffy knows what Ace promised Tama, and that Tama now knows Ace is dead, "freeing" her from their promise and allowing her to develop new promises.
Tama is through Ace and Luffy just met her. Luffy has ventured through Totland with Carrot, lost Pedro, fought side by side and Carrot has helped the crew outside of Luffy. The reason why I don't believe that anyone is serious with a Tama candidacy is because Carrot isn't even a strong candidate and her argument is way stronger is Tama.
What Carrot went through WCI, Tama will now do so in Wano.
In conclusion
- Carrot has shown that she can be a lookout and Tama hasn't
Tama does not need to show she is a lookout. For all Luffy cares about, she could just be the ninja of the crew.
- Carrot was shown working, falling into antics, emotional moments and gimmicks with Chopper, Nami Brook and Luffy
Tama has already shown many emotional moments with Luffy including wearing his treasure (straw hat). She is now falling into a prison break antics by following Chopper, so there is plenty of room for her to show their chemistry.
Carrot is a candidate, but not that strong. So to even throw Tama in there is almost a joke
That is fine, I think the same about Carrot. Because, to me all her story beats are for her to become a leading figure. I mean, not for anything she was shown in the current Wano map alongside Dog, while Wanda and all her seniors, were grouped together.