I remember when it started people were saying it was one of the best arcs in the series, possibly the best arc (topping even the Arlong arc).
Now that it's almost over, the same amount of people are saying that this is the beginning of the end and One Piece, saying it's starting to fall into the same slump most other Shounen series fall into(becoming dull, predicitable and repetitive).
So what went wrong?
What went wrong with the Water 7 Arc?
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I don't think that much went wrong in the arc (this coming from a guy who noticed any & all flaws even with DBZ). The arc has an excellent story and good characters but the main flaw is that it started to go somewhat downhill when the fights started. The fights were for the most part, kinda bland seeing as most of the CP9 had the same moves and they were kinda boring. A key example is the way Lucci was finished off, it was lame and lacked the dramaticness of the previous villains. Also the BC was lacking in power badly, I mean they killed nobody even tho they are supposed to be the supreme power of the WG, kinda makes it lose all its appeal. Not to mention most importantly, this arc was far too long and drawn out. Can't think of anything else right now, but this is basicaly it IMO. Other than that, pretty decent Arc.
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nothing, enough said. This was a great arc. It may not be as good as alabasta, but it was still wonderful.
F**k you to all those nay sayers. -
The complete and utter pussification of Usopp, the nonsense with Going Merry, the bland fights against CP9, Chopper/Kumadori and Franky/Fukuro excepted, the add of a late, bigger threat than the arc's supposed main opponents with the Buster Call, somehow cancelling CP9's previous badassness, the lackluster ending of Lucci vs Luffy, the useless and ridiculous FF/Paulie/Giants fake death scene.
Of course it doesn't mean One Piece is doomed. But for me, all these points clearly mean the World Government saga doesn't compare to the Baroque Works one that is still reigning supreme.
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I pretty much argree with Aldrich actually, expect that…the fights weren't that bad. Then again, I can't say they were great either (Chopper and Franky excluded, of course).
However, some of those problems might be resolves that the arc ends...the FF death wasn't a big deal, their fake deaths served there purpose, making things seem dark for a chapter or so. They really didn't need to stay dead, ironically.
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**Water 7 arc > All other arcs IMO
People are pissed about Usopp for some reason despite him being a huge part of this Arc. Usopp is shining in this arc every way but fighting, which makes sense as on the of the reasons Luffy and Usopp fought was because he supposidley abonded the weak. Believe it or not people, fighting isn't everything. Even Usopp's sniping skills were shown-off this arc, and snipingIS his fighting.
People are nitching about the fights, but I can't see it. I thought they were great. Hec, even Nami vs Calpha was somewhat enjoyable. The fact that these fights were so physical is what made them awesome.
For some reason, people start noticing every itty bitty thing they don't like. Yet, if most of them decide to watch the Water 7 arc as a whole, they take back what they said. For example, I couldn't imagine the horror of going through the Skypeia arc while it was going on, but since I could go through it atonce, I liked it a lot.**
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I pretty much argree with Aldrich actually, expect that…the fights weren't that bad. Then again, I can't say they were great either (Chopper and Franky excluded, of course).
However, some of those problems might be resolves that the arc ends...the FF death wasn't a big deal, their fake deaths served there purpose, making things seem dark for a chapter or so. They really didn't need to stay dead, ironically.
I'm not saying the fights were bad, just that they weren't anything special. Now that I think about it for some of the Strawhats the Alabasta fights weren't exactly brilliant either, but the two main fighters' opponents were so much better. Daz Bones and Sir Crocodile are simply ten times more charismatic than square nosed giraffe and sycho killer kitty.
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this was a Character Development arc.
if the next 2 arcs, eithe rof them, Manga specifically, not anime filler, are somehwo similar to Lougetown then yes, it will be making repeats because the Red Line is bound to be only a couple islands away.
and while it may mean another Baroque Works coming I'd hate for it to be so obvious.
Oda isn't that stupid, he'll find a way to keep it interesting and make connections properly.
I'm sur eocne the Anime reaches this point it'll be alot more epic unless the slow it down(anyone remember right after Crocodile gets knocked up and beaten, right befroe everyone yells Crocodile)
I'd hate for them to slow the action down like that or have somehing too similar to the G8 Straw Bridge incident, which btw straws hats were underpowered.
Only thing I can think of to make it better is if some people, especially form the world government actually die or at least are lost at sea. the nameless ones we only see flying from Luffy's attacks at least. bring the count form 10,000 troops to at least 4,000.
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This arc should not be the death OP, the reason why people hate this arc are:
1. Usopp not getting his fight
(Come on, he sniped Spandam, He motivied Luffy and he have confident to jump in the sea. He proved himself and people still act like Oda is stupid or One Piece is their story)-
The Buster Call failing to kill everyone
(When cart 3 and 4 got derailed, people thought it will meet up with the Rocketman. Sadly, we forgot Califa has her thorn whip and can use it to stop the derailed cart. Now people forgot what Robin says: "It's not the same Buster Call as it was in Ohara" -
Fake death scene
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Going Marry poping up, making the whole Luffy Vs. Usopp looks like utter pointless
(And people thought something hard has to make Usopp rejoin the crew.)
I don't hate this arc, I'm just tired of all these bitching/flamming/spamming about Oda failing to meet our expections, they want Usopp to fight, they want this arc to have an tragic end.
They are even not happy with the whole Luffy Vs. Lucchi battle.
Now, I'm not going to try to defend this series, everyone has opitions and I can't say anything that will make everyone happy. What bothers me is people bash this arc like they hated it but they are still here. If people hated his arc, this series; why are they'er still here? Why can't they just stop reading OP and find something else to read.
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@joekido:
What bothers me is people bash this arc like they hated it but they are still here. If people hated his arc, this series; why are they'er still here? Why can't they just stop reading OP and find something else to read.
I don't think I'll ever get tired reading that question. It's like your first Christmas over and over again.
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i think people are kinda tired ,we reached the ending of the arc already, it's just the weekly wait that makes it look eternal. the cp9 weren't the best villains thus far , but they weren't bad either. the fights are more of a matter of opinion so i won't comment on them. thought future generations of watchers will probably enjoy it more by blasting throught it.
I believe that ones we get to a new island things may get better again.
i consider this to be second best arc, Baroque works first thanks to croc.
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Warp I love you. It is a matter of opinion but I don't think anything is wrong with this arc. I have found it dramatic and moving at many different points. It is my favorite arc thus far. To be honest I wept when I read the spoiler for this most recent chapter of One Piece. Some people complain about Merry's resurrection. I personally find the fact that the ships feelings towards the crew were so strong that it has come to help them one last time when they need it the most, a beautiful and touching moment. It is moments like these that remind me how much I love One Piece.
To each his own, we all read these things for different reasons. I will continue to read and enjoy One Piece for my own.
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Come to think of it, if you didn't like the roushiki for it's similar style, then the next arc should be better. They'll probably be more devil fruits users, super pirate crews, and whatnot.
Still though, if you think about it then all the SH enemies so far have had connecting themes in their fighting styles. I wonder what the next one will be? I'd like to see the SHs fight another pirate group(Shichibukai?).
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The complete and utter pussification of Usopp, the nonsense with Going Merry, the bland fights against CP9, Chopper/Kumadori and Franky/Fukuro excepted, the add of a late, bigger threat than the arc's supposed main opponents with the Buster Call, somehow cancelling CP9's previous badassness, the lackluster ending of Lucci vs Luffy, the useless and ridiculous FF/Paulie/Giants fake death scene.
I didn't like the CP9 fights much (except for Sanji v Califa and Kumadori v. Chopper), but then I haven't liked the "fight" segments of One Piece in most cases. I think the Arlong arc has the best fights, just because Arlong and Kuroobi were such blowhards which made for interesting dialogue.
The Buster Call was hardly a out-of-thin-air thing. Spandam was brandishing the golden Den Den Mushi since early in the arc. We all saw it coming. I was truly amused by the way it went off… you knew it would involve bumbling Spandam somehow, but the way he did it was priceless.
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I wonder what is wrong with the CP9 anyway? Why do people compare them to the Baroque Works?
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I really see nothing truly wrong with CP9, they are the most stylish (I'm a sucker for characters that wear suits) the Strawhats have face thus far. It was just the fights they had were the only real flaw with CP9 to me. Other than that, They just have cool personalitiies and just oozed badass.
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Can someone explain to me why they think the chopper vs kumadori fight was so great?Beside nami and calipha i thought it was the worst fight in the entire arc.
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I always thought the Water 7 arc ended when they arrived at Enies Lobby. XD
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Chopper vs. Kumadori was one of the better fights. Well that fight introduced Monster Chopper who is extremely badass, the fight was extremely brutal and that badass "beating chest" pose Kumadori had was just awesome. That was just an awesome fight along with Franky v. Fukuro.
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Kumadori probably layed the worst beating a Strawhat ever took on Chopper, then the fluffy little doctor turned into an office building sized fucked up reindeer demon and teared Kumadori a quantity of new ones.
It's really satisfying to see a character you usually put little faith in get badly beaten, then come back with a trumpcard from hell and give his opponent his comeuppance. I'm a sucker for this kind of stuff.
On the contrary, I couldn't care less about the posing pseudo badass getting rid of his opponent in one chapter and a half with little to no troubles.
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Eh, besides Crocodile being awesome, I never thought that BW/Alabasta was the greatest thing ever. I'm still really enjoying this arc, but I want the damn boat to die, pretty much.
edit: oh yeah, the Nami fight was a lowpoint as well, but it usually is.
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I can't believe how many people want Merry dead for the soul purpose of having something die in OP.
Fact is we were expecting a new ship, not Merry to come back. Oda doesn't do the predictable, tho something else is gonna happen to Merry. We all know that good and well.
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That's not why I want the damn thing to die. It's a boat that can't sail and Usopp needs to stop attempting to have sex with it.
And yes, Oda is original, but it's not like EVERYTHING HE DOES IS UNPREDICTABLE!! Come on.
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I still love the arc and to me its still been the high point of the manga and the anime
I don't see what the point of all the bitching is and frankly I don't care
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That arc was great , the only thing i do not like in this arc was nami vs kalifa because all the fights of nami are fake : all her opponent are described as reckless killers and then when they fight it's like they are not the same characters ( i m talking about kalifa because paula was serious during her fight , kalifa just wanted to rub nami's tits and legs instead of fighting her:getlost: )
When the opponent is serious and bloodlust nami cannot fight ( that was the case with kumadori) , if nami fought against kumadori and won that would be more interesting than the fight against "dumbalifa" !
Anyway except for nami's fight , i like all the others and the storyline for this arc was great .
By the way i consider W7 and EL as 2 differents arcs which are part of a bigger arc :the WG arc .
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The fact that Usopp didn't do very much at all. Even in the Arabasta arc he fought. But now he was just running away and stuff. But the storyline was great. I loved the whole Robin thing.
But the Lucci fight was just….......LAME.
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Hmmm…Bakalipha...
Anyway, I think one of the only things wrong with this arc is the way it drags on. It's been going on for a while now. Good job there's an end in sight.
Thing is, Oda set a high standard for himself with BW, and trying to live up to it is hard to do...
Although I loved Lucci as a villain. He fits the psychopath quota perfectly.
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I love the current arc. I'm all about story and emotion, and this has satisfied my tastes.
It's all about people's opinions and personal preferences. Then again, a lot of people bitch and whine about every little thing that it seems like they hate it more than they actually do.
I don't mind if people complain, I'd just like it if they decided to do so after the arc is over.
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i think the arc is great. It's all the whining that ruins it for me. I swear, one person forms an opinion, and everyone follows them like mindless sheep.
"hey Milhouse, cool kids bike with their eyes closed" -
Besides what Carter said, I'll just add that I thought Luffy was pretty lousy against Lucci.
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Nothing went wrong. Rather, to me it seems like most are new to One Piece and haven't following it weekly longer than this arc - especially fighting pace can be a pain in the ass if read in weekly cycle - leading them to somehow believe that there's a slump or something. There isn't. It's the same as always.
Merry popping out of nowhere was a day saver anyway. I love it. What makes it more awesome is that it annoys a hell out of people. When an author is afraid of writing stuff that could annoy readers, then, he's in a slump. And Oda clearly hasn't lost his balls yet.
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Well, that's assuming the reaction outside of this population is still mixed, and that Oda knows how people feel.
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@Cap'n:
That's not why I want the damn thing to die. It's a boat that can't sail and Usopp needs to stop attempting to have sex with it.
I was about to say something about GM to sail its final voyage and about Usopp but this guy said it better. Nuff said!
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I've really liked this arc so far, a lot of people don't seem to like the fights, but for the most part I really liked them, and while the Baroque Works fights might've been better, these fights were certainly above average. I really enjoyed the return of Merry, it seemed inevitable that it would come back, although I doubt it'll live past Water 7.
What really annoyed me were these types of discussions:
"I want Sanji to get a fight, he needs to do SOMETHING this arc."and then:
"No! Not Jyabura, that makes Usopp lose all character development this arc!"
And then someone will say Usopp needs to get a fight, and what would've happened if Usopp had blown up a couple Buster Call ships. People'd complain about that. Make up your minds guys.
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I liked Luffy vs. Lucci, but it kinda dragged toward the end, and the finish was kinda lame. Other than that and the majority of Nami's fight, I've loved this arc.
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Alabasta was 100X better when you compare the fights. Usopp took a 4 ton bat to head and stood up simply because they were insulting Luffy. In this arc, his crowning achievement is making a crappy costume and sniping a guy with a messed-up face and an elephant sword.
Nami fought someone who was actually trying to kill her, not fondle her. Kalifa's actions during the Nami fight were exact opposition to fighting Sanji. She kicked the poor man IN HIS NUTS.
The highlight of the Arc was Robin's flashback and her discovering a reason to live. It also revealed another D and gave a hint at Aokiji's (and the other 3 admiral's) power.
The Usopp / Luffy fight was admirable, but it's not what I expected. I would at least expect Usopp to be able to get back at Kaku for dumping the Merry into Aqua Laguna. He even had a chance to when Kaku and Zoro came crashing into Jyabura's room.
Usopp can be just as strong as any other Strawhat with a few impact dials or even a Reject dial (if he obtained one). With the reject dial, Wiper killed Shura in ONE HIT. If Usopp can survive a 4 ton bat to the head, he can survive the recoil from a reject dial.
Sanji got more than his share of fights (Jerry, his agents, Wanze, Kalifa, Jyabura), Zoro got one measly fight against Kaku, Chopper smash, and Luffy owned Lucci (Even though it took waaaay to long). Even Franky got some action. Usopp and Nami got the short end of the stick this arc, and except for cutting the Aqua Laguna and beating Kaku (obviously an inferior swordsman), so did Zoro.
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It was too long, nothing else.
Just last chapter, it took 3 pages to describe 5 seconds. 5 seconds in 3 entire pages of an 18 - 20 page weekly manga.. utterly absurd.The story was fine, the fights were fine, many character upgrades should have had better explanations, but aside from that the arc was fine, just ridiculously long.
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They did that in Alabasta arc, too, when the bomb in the clocktower was going off.
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Merry popping out of nowhere was a day saver anyway. I love it. What makes it more awesome is that it annoys a hell out of people. When an author is afraid of writing stuff that could annoy readers, then, he's in a slump. And Oda clearly hasn't lost his balls yet.
That must be a joke. It annoys a couple of manga nerds on the internet, besides that it was the most predictable fan servicy stuff you could find.
You can say a lot of things about him, but Oda taking risks in this arc… HA.
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Nothing went wrong. Rather, to me it seems like most are new to One Piece and haven't following it weekly longer than this arc - especially fighting pace can be a pain in the ass if read in weekly cycle - leading them to somehow believe that there's a slump or something. There isn't. It's the same as always.
True dat. Patience is a virtue.
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That must be a joke. It annoys a couple of manga nerds on the internet
I was half-serious about it… Merry coming back is one the best thing to happen in a while, annoying nerds with a stick in their ass is awesome and an author losing balls is usually a sign of a slump. Basicly my point was that Oda has been taking risks in this arc as much, or as less!, as in the past. Nothing has changed.
besides that it was the most predictable fan servicy stuff you could find.
It's easy for you to criticize it now. If I had made a topic titled "I Think Merry Will Come Back In Next Following Weeks" just a while ago, before the latest chapter, what kind of a reaction it would had received? Common approval? I hardly believe. More likely everybody would had laughed on me. So now I just laugh on your most predictable. Fan servicy… perhaps. What kind of a solution wouldn't had been?
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:blink: A few people complain about something they should have seen coming and suddenly the arc "went wrong"? It's still my favorite arc so far. I thought the fights did drag a bit, but not as much as Skypiea, which bored me through a lot of it. Differences of opinion will always exist.
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I think the reason many people are so upset, is because this arc, starting from the Strawhats arrival at Water 7, began 2 years ago. It is one looong arc and many thought it would never end.
I think this arc is great and I loved all the fight's.
We had one of the most badass lines in the series when Luffy was confronted by 10.000 men. "Enies Lobby has a force of 10.000, how many comrades did you bring" Luffy "Im am alone, know get out of my way"
Franky's fight against Fokorou was awesome and his finishing move was fucking great.
Chopper went from little cute Reindeer to Hulk/King Kong monster.
As for the Deus Ex Machina Merry, that is the only thing that pissed me off. I got used to Oda never killing anybody, I don't understand why everybody was so angry that the Franky Familiy survived Buster Call, everybody was "What they survived, nooooooo". They survived the Strawhats when Luffy and the others destroyed the Franky House and they survived the Shingans of CP9.
I considered the option that Merry could survive, but he just appearing out of nowhere saving everybody at the last second, was just too much. -
Call me a dullard but I thought this arc was entertaining on many levels. I've only been reading one chapter a week for about 8 months, so I haven't had to wait as long as some, but I really think the waiting and failed predictions are the 2 biggest reasons people dislike this one
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It's easy for you to criticize it now. If I had made a topic titled "I Think Merry Will Come Back In Next Following Weeks" just a while ago, before the latest chapter, what kind of a reaction it would had received? Common approval? I hardly believe. More likely everybody would had laughed on me. So now I just laugh on your most predictable. Fan servicy… perhaps. What kind of a solution wouldn't had been?
I was talking about the arc in its entirety, not just Merry coming back. If you read it again it's obvious it's made for the vast majority of the fans to be pleased, and rightly so, it's not a criticism, just in response to your point that Oda had balls for drawing stuff that'd annoy the fans.
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Well for me, I just don't find the CP9 as intimidating as the Merman and Baroque Works. I love the Water 7 arc, but World Government has its ups and downs.
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Well, Arlong's crew and Baroque Works were presented to us as being entirely dispicable and evil, whereas CP9 were first introduced to us as good guys. And even when their identities are revealed, there's the fact that they're supposedly on the "good" side of the law. At least they believe they are . And a lot of them remained likeable characters, like Kaku. I tried hard to hate the guy but I couldn't.
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@Fire Fist:
They did that in Alabasta arc, too, when the bomb in the clocktower was going off.
What's your point? I put Cheese on my pizza because it went with the pizza, I won't put cheese on my ice cream however.
Just because Oda "did the same thing in insert arc" doesn't make it any less draggingly long. This arc was draggingly long, Alabasta had breaks in between Luffy and Crocodiles fights, no such breaks were present with Lucci.
This arc was long that's all.
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That arc was great , the only thing i do not like in this arc was nami vs kalifa because all the fights of nami are fake : all her opponent are described as reckless killers and then when they fight it's like they are not the same characters ( i m talking about kalifa because paula was serious during her fight , kalifa just wanted to rub nami's tits and legs instead of fighting her:getlost: )
I know and for those of us perverted freaks, this was awesome ^_^
Yes I liked that fight because it was so darn hotanyway, for me this was the first time I started reading the manga ahead of time… so it did seem like it was dragging but I think the reason is it's different seeing things in a half hour show than a 12 page manga. I liked Luffy vs Lucci because a lot of times once the main character brings out their trump card (gear 3rd) the bad guy is done for. When Lucci got hit with Gear 3rd the first time, I thought he was done and I was dissapointed thinking about how Lucci was supposed to be so strong and here he went down just with one punch. Yes a GIANT punch but still... so I was glad that went on a big longer. Luffy not defeating him as each week went by was what kept me on the edge of my seat.
EDIT: a few people said that Luffy could have done Jet Gattling at any time and others agreed and said he could have done Gomu Gomu no STorm against Crocodile at any time. Here's the thing though, I don't think Luffy plans his fights like that. It's always a spur of the moment things. I don't think he even know if he could DO a jet gattling until he tried. That's why he didn't just do it sooner. ANd perhaps if he had tried it before, Lucci would have dodged. The reason it worked was because Lucci didn't have time to dodge because he was so surprised that Luffy wasn't dead... okay THAT annoyed me. Him taking Lucci's trump card several times annoyed me. I wil admit that and I don't have a problem admitting that. There was no reason to keep beating the hell out of Luffy once he got up.. it's like the Anvil Chorus on Tiny Toons all over again... just let the poor duck go home all ready ;_; (huge Plucky fan XD) I bet Im the first one to ever compare Tiny Toons to One PIece =D
The only thing I was really dissapointed in was the Buster Call. I thought they'd have to for sure make it out BEFORE the Buster Call arrived because once it got there, it was supposed to just destory everything in sight but it seems to be just taking its time, just chilling... hanging about... things like that.
About Merry, yeah at first I thought it was dumb but to be honest I like the idea of the ship sorta having a spirit of its own and coming to save Luffy. If you ask me, it makes you look at Merry quite a bit differently. It's no longer just their ship, but truely one of their Nakama as well. Each of the Strawhat has had their moments when they were near death but they kept fighting for what they believed it and now Merry has too.
As for the Franky Family, I just plain stopped expecting people to die back after Alabasta. If someone dies, I know they'll be all right. My only problem is I don't see the point in "fake deaths" anymore as they don't have any sort of impact at all. Why do a fake death? Just don't kill them at all. One of these days someone is really going to die, and no one will believe it
BTW
Im really stupid but when did Kaku push the Merry into the ocean after setting it on fire? I really don't remember that? O_o -
It got more fans. That's pretty much all I can see going wrong. As other's said, more people came who now have to wait week-to-week for their chapters and, apparently having nothing better to do, nitpick at every little detail until they find SOMETHING they believe to be "flawed" (which can often be debunked had that waited for the next few chapters to arrive).
So far, I'd have to say this is definetly my favorite arc as well. Yes, it's long, but I have yet to find anything in it to be "dragging" (even the '3 pages for 5 seconds' bit; it's a classic 'emotional display' used by every form of media).
The fights have also been great, definetly some of the best I've seen (yes, better the Alabasta ones, even if you don't think CP9 were as good villains as BW was). None of them really disappointed me (yes, even Kalifa's), since another bit I love about OP is the varying styles of fights and action we often see. Oh yeah, and why people complain about Usopp not getting a fight I can't understand. He did, against Luffy (and it's not like he was sitting on his laurels the rest of this Arc). For all that other crap about Usopp, I don't know what to say anymore (aside from "You people/Sogetards are annoying and I'm tired of it").
And please don't forget, everyone: the arc is not quite over yet. ;D