Ok, that's more understandable. In the context of this thread it was hard to know if you were referring to opinions here or elsewhere.
Definitely agree then. I'm still a bit annoyed that there's a dedicated segment of people who had their characters deconfirmed and they took it as motivation to crusade against sakurai and the game. It's just sheer immaturity.
For sure. I mean, I do feel bad about Waluigi and Zero, but EVERYONE can't make. At this point, there are SO MANY characters in the game. Hell, back when Sakurai did the whole "I hope you aren't expecting too many new characters", I was like, "Okay, so we're probably getting about 5 characters total." We're at four newcomers and six echoes. We technically have ten new characters, and we're still about 2-3 months until release.
I wasn't expecting much, and I've gotten more than I could imagine. At this point, this game has so many characters that I love already in, that anyone I love even more making it in would be some kind of miracle that I just don't expect or assume.
For my part right now it's mostly about not wanting fanservice: the game. I miss "wait, you put WHO in Smash?" Not just running down a checklist of what people have been screaming for the loudest. Sure I've got my personal picks but even then they tend to be a lot more out of left field and unique.
Also I think from a design perspective it's important to listen to fans and feedback, but absolutely disastrous to give them everything they (think they) want. That might be what gets me the most here, especially because it coincides with discussions I was just having about that being the case in a different game and also in certain shows vis-a-vis the accessibility and interaction that now takes place on social media between creators and consumers.
Are you referring to them putting characters that not everyone knows into Smash? Like how we all learned of Fire Emblem with Marth or Xenoblade with Shulk? Yes, I agree with that appeal. Probably the reason I love Simon and Richter being added (other than the fact that I adore Castlevania so much). A lot of people will now try Castlevania because of this.
But that whole point of this game has been fanservice. Almost every stage. Characters that people have really, really wanted. I'm not sure where the "think they want" is coming from.
As a way to get people into franchises, sure that's great. Though it doesn't have to be for that, also just for wacky antics. Like G&W or R.O.B. … it's probably not going to get many people to search out their roots and actually acquire them, but it adds some cool nods and representation into what's almost a curated museum of game (originally Nintendo) history... within a game itself. As such I disagree that fanservice is the entire point.
The "think they want" part is less relevant to Smash character desires but more generally with games, where people readily toss out all kinds of ideas for how to "improve" a game or a sequel without understanding or thinking through how it would really work. So I feel like that barrier between creators and consumers is really important, so they don't feel held hostage by the fanbase for the decisions they make. In Sakurai's case it might not quite be that, but it definitely kills the hype of people rooting for less mainstream underdogs and the feeling that anyone could be next. It's a culmination of all the reveals so far, which have done nothing to show otherwise. The closest would be Richter though... it was a bit random to include him as well but it's nothing shocking when he gets revealed as a Simon clone right along with him.
Also just personally I'm biased toward newcomers from unrepresented franchises, not just because of all of the above but because it would maximize the diversity of music and potentially stages/items.
The wtf character is usually the first (ice climbers, snake, megaman, Wii fit trainer, Ridley) and the last (g&w, ROB, duck hunt, Bayonetta, TBD)
Calling Ridley a "WTF" character is missing the point. Yeah people doubted it would ever happen, but he was the most fiercely requested character for well over a decade so…
Context my good man, we live in a post "everyone is here" world, where fanservice was set to 11, before E3 there were BIG reasons to think that Ridley wouldn't make it, again.
Again, that's missing the point of what I meant. It's about relatively obscure characters that came out of nowhere, and very specifically, ones not on popular demand. Megaman doesn't count either for that, and in a weird way neither does Bayonetta since everyone thought it was the result of the popularity poll (and she WAS highly requested). Not sure how to qualify Snake. The trend you're pointing out is interesting but not all that related to what I'm trying to say.
On Isabelle, I feel pretty meh about her, but I do like that the fishing rod seems like her side b and it's scorpion's get over here.
To me, Isabelle is exactly the kind of WTF character Foolio is describing. I've never played an Animal Crossing game, I've never heard of her, and suddenly theres this cute little dog fighting in Smash using fishing rods and party poppers? Thats awesome, and adorable. Compared to K Rool, Ridley and the Belmonts who have decades of history across platforms and games, shes apparently been in just the one, so she's kinda serving the exact purpose you guys are discussing of a niche character whos piquing my interest in a series I've never tried.
Also, theres this:
And this:
http://www.dorkly.com/post/87139/animal-crossing-nintendo-switch-memes-reactions-twitter
As have been mentioned by others in this thread previously, I'm just enjoying seeing the sheer joy expressed over this cute little dogperson I have no personal relationship with.
That, not all fighters are for me. I will campain against Ken, Crash and Shantae to my dark heart's content, but once they are in, they are smash family. Like Roy, Snake, Wii Fit Trainer and the Miis.
Interesting tidbit, spanish localization renamed her into "Canela", spanish for Cinammon, a more dog like name.
My thing is this is the time for a lot of the "most-requested" picks to get in, Sakurai even alluded to the ballot. But I think some people have taken this to the logical extreme of naming third party character after third party character. "Crash! Steve! Doomguy!"
At what point does it stop feeling like Smash Bros and start feeling like MUGEN? Not that I dislike the inclusion of Megaman, Pacman, or even Bayo hell I was happy to see Snake back too, but there's still more inhouse Nintendo characters to pull from.
I must stress that I do agree on the point of diversifying the pool to draw stages, items, and music from, that takes Smash to greater heights. Which is why I am still positive another series will be represented through another newcomer….somewhere. That Rathalos tweet from Sakurai's account is still fishy me thinks.
but once they are in, they are smash family.
also this. I've had newcomers where I wasn't really feeling it (Bowser Jr.), but seeing everyone come back and in one big mural made me so happy. Often people who haven't played X series get more interested when they try out that character that represents them.
I think pretty much,only the likes of Goku and Optimus Prime can be a WTF at this point.
Sakurai adds himself to the game. There's your out-of-left-field character.
Reveal was definitely lackluster, mostly because it didn't have that exciting ongoing situation (not a single character injury/fatality), and most of it was spent reading.
I just can't say no to more variety, unless it feels like playing Palutena.
How to easily fix the trailer - Instead of a letter Isabelle gets this in the mail:
Isabelle on the way to the Smashing.
So no one died in this reveal trailer…... well except the hopes and dreams of nook fans :ninja:
Member of Beelzebub is Freakin' Awesome Group
what I'm catching up on currently: Gintama, lone wolf & cub, Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind, and lost in poem (by our very own AP member GEPPETTOSMONSTER)
So no one died in this reveal trailer…... well except the hopes and dreams of nook fans :ninja:
And the expectations of various Smash fans who wanted someone else or a more substantial trailer.
Dude, it's Animal Crossing. How can you make a substantial reveal trailer about it?
Villager was just a sideshow for Megaman back in 2014.
People expecting a general Nintendo direct to be entirely Smash and include 20 character reveals and maybe give them a hand job, tale as old as time.
MEanwhile, important Isabelle dossier right here:
Dude, it's Animal Crossing. How can you make a substantial reveal trailer about it?
Isabelle is cleaning up the office, then a duck hunt duck flies through the office and scatters papers. She sighs, and picks them up. Right after she does so, the duck flies in again, this time being chased by the dog. She's more visibly annoyed, but she picks up the bigger mess they made. But then the duck flies through again followed by the dog and this time villager is following them shooting slingshot pebbles, making an even bigger mess.
Isabelle flips, grabs her pot ready to throw it, and then boom, title card says Isabelle turns over a new leaf. Heck, this one even gives her personality by having turn over a new leaf imply she's done with villager's stupid shit and is taking matters into her own hands.
OR, if we want to keep her pacifist and tease animal crossing as well with in-game assets, have it start out with isabelle at the bus station saying how the mayor never came back. Kapp'n appears with his same bus as the smash assist trophy, so she gets on and there's text hovering over about how it's her job to find them and bring them back, by force if she has to… then the video shifts from the in-game assets to cgi, with isabelle getting off the bus into new donk city, where she spots mario and villager fighting. She pulls out her fishing rod, aims at villager to catch him, and as she throws the line the title card appears, the Kapp'n remix starts playing, and BAM, gameplay.
I just came up with these two on the spot. It's really not that hard. Sure, they would have been more expensive and time-consuming to make, but that's a different problem. Coming up to the ideas is really not that hard, and if you have a 30 min brainstorming session with a couple actual artists I'm sure more ideas would appear.
Villager was just a sideshow for Megaman back in 2014.
More accurately, Villager was a sideshow to Smash 4 getting revealed. Much like Inklings were a sideshow to Smash Ultimate getting revealed. That Villager had jack-shit done for his trailer is not a reflection of animal crossing being difficult to cross-adapt with other games, it's just a reflection of the fact that the first characters revealed for the games get less dedicated trailers since the focus is the entirety of the game.
AND EVEN THEN when I think back I remember people watching the beginning of that trailer being jebaited into thinking it was animal crossing, until villager runs away and the letter has the smash logo, and then boom, logos and characters and then villager reappears netting mario and having killer eyes. To compare this treatment to the snorefest of isabelle's trailer is an injustice to how seamlessly they went from hyping up animal crossing to hyping up smash to hyping up the new character in smash.
CoroCoro apparently leaked that there is 108 stages in SSBU
Gonna miss Codecs/Guidances if they aren't back/replaced.
It's about time someone killed that ancient mother fucker.
So the person that correctly leaked Ridley, Everyone is here, Simon, and now Isabelle has given word on what else we can expect:
! Ken and Incineroar, as possibly the last two to be revealed for the base roster. He also has sources saying there's a Square Enix newcomer.
Personally, after Isabelle happening I'm fairly ok with believing the above is true and that's the last we get in this game. Nowhere near as exciting as Ridley and K. Rool for me, but we got Ridley and K. Rool and all my favorites came back so I'm happy settling. There's also some slight hope in that the above leaker never guessed any of the echoes so far, nor did he say anything about K. Rool, so it's possible there's echoes or particularly hype characters he is not aware of.
What I'm expecting at this point is for us to get the entire full roster for the base game revealed by the end of October, that way they have all the content revealed by November and publishing/marketing efforts can go nuts. If Nintendo is smart (and evil), they could also release a demo of the game in November to people who have signed up for paid online.
Then near release it'd make sense we get teases about the beginning of DLC, much like we got insight into Mewtwo DLC shortly before the Wii U version of Smash 4 happened. I imagine it's in this DLC where we get really hype characters, stuff like Banjo Kazooie and prize echoes like Shadow the Hedgehog.
That is a wolf-roy-dark pit-level dissapointment for a closing characters.
I got Conan vampire killer and Jolmont Jocter and the super lizard bros. so I can live with that, the retro-wtf character being THAT echo?
His source is pretty weird, but him missing Richter is very suspect.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Both the box and this guy's prediction depends on the final reveal being October instead of december. That would certainly only make leaks very dificult.
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That is a wolf-roy-dark pit-level dissapointment for a closing characters.
I got Conan vampire killer and Jolmont Jocter and the super lizard bros. so I can live with that, the retro-wtf character being THAT echo?
His source is pretty weird, but him missing Richter is very suspect.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Both the box and this guy's prediction depends on the final reveal being October instead of december. That would certainly only make leaks very dificult.
The excuse for Richter was that he was aware of voice lines about richter being in the game, but wasn't sure about the context so he didn't share that publicly.
My biggest hope right now is the fact this guy didn't call a single echo fighter NOR did he call K. Rool, which is a significantly huge reveal to have missed or not heard about. Which tells me there might be non-boring bullshit that he is not aware of and may yet surprise us.
! My even bigger hope, and more of a longshot, is that Incineroar is just a trap and he's actually an echo of ganondorf or captain falcon. Then instead the actual unique newcomer is something actually interesting. Like Guzma with Golisopod. Or really, any other pokemon character that doesn't scream recycled moveset.
[hide]The whole reason he is theorizing only this based on the 'box' theory that everyone is pointing to:
The video explains it, but for a brief text explanation:
1. The characters on the box follow a specific pattern. It follows the order in which the characters were introduced in the series, but swaps sides for every nine characters.
2. The pattern seems to break during one of the sections, implying that there is an echo fighter included within the mix. With this information, this implies that the echo fighter is for Palutena, Pac-Man, Robin, Shulk, Bowser Jr, Duck Hunt, Ryu, or Cloud. Considering those options, Ken seems like the most likely possibility of an echo fighter.
3. The final two slots imply two final newcomers. One of them is for Isabelle, who has yet to be included on this box. They proceed to point out that the last one could/will be the heavily rumored Incineroar.
4. I'm not sure where people are pulling out that idea that we're going to have a third character from this theory, allowing Geno to possibly fit in. Still, it's there I guess.
Personally? I believe this to be bullshit. I have severe doubts on this. They can make the box look however they want. This is about as valid as theory as saying "There's not enough slots for the character select". The character select can be changed, and so can this box. Could it be true? Possibly? But I have doubts.
I will say: If it is true, then this game might have a lot of DLC.[/hide]
! The leaker is not theorizing this based on the box theory. He's leaked Ken ages ago and Incineroar was previously only billed as Gen 7 pokemon and only yesterday he confirmed it'd be Incineroar.
! So whether the box thing is accurate or not, what this leaker has said is separate from this. Particularly since the box theory hints two more characters, whereas this guy has been saying three more in Ken, Incineroar and Square Enix character. So technically, if the box thing is correct it only means that some characters got pushed to DLC instead of base roster. But it's very likely it won't be true in that it's stupid to put stock in a marketing asset that can easily be updated much like the art mural in the site
For whatever it's worth, one of the first things Sakurai said was that there wouldn't be that many new characters coming to Ultimate. Right now we have 9 newcomers, consisting of 5 non-echos (Inkling, Ridley, Simon, K. Rool, Isabelle) and 4 echos (Daisy, Richter, Dark Samus, Chrom)
The smallest roster increase prior to this was 64 to Melee with 14 newcomers. So we should probably expect less than 5 new characters until DLC.
! This whole box thing reminds me of the special edition of Fire Emblem Warriors, where it had sprites of the whole roster. But at the time, we were second guessing it because it showed off Celica and Lyn, which seemed odd given the rest of the roster, but it was true.
! I personally don't (want to) put stock in it; as Noqanky said, these art things can be updated. Anticipation for the roster is a showcase and at an all-time high, and things have been so tight for far. Sakurai and his team are going to show everyone off BEFORE the game launches, so we're waiting with baited breath on what the last ones will be. In the past, characters have been accidentally leaked before:
-Lucario's icon was visible in a Brawl screenshot about stickers.
-Ganondorf was in a boundary bubble during that Smash 4 TV spot
-and of course, the infamous ESRB leak.
! I'm sick of leaks, be they real or fake. Vague, somewhat correct text leaks are one thing, but we've been fortunate not to have major render leaks. If this box thing is true, and it comes November 2nd, does that mean Sakurai will reveal the last ones mid October???
! I'm admittedly not too thrilled by the choices either. I've said before how I don't care for Incineroar. And Ken works as a sort of book-end to these echoes, since, he WAS the original "echo", but he's still a bland choice. Then again, when has every newcomer been received equally as well? We still have Ridley, K.Rool, and goddamn Simon Belmont, I'd call it a success in my book.
! Regardless of the box theory, my conservative guess is one more newcomer and one more echo. I'd be glad if I was wrong and we get just a little more.
That is a wolf-roy-dark pit-level dissapointment for a closing characters.
How dare you diss my boy Wolf like this?
The box HAS to change, it either that or stays randomly without Isabel and two to three or four blank spots (but that would make me happy, not for her but because it means that the box was a complete bust)
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
How dare you diss my boy Wolf like this?
Sorry for putting wolf in such bad company, he isn't a bad choice, but a bad final reveal.
3DS FC: 0516-7666-3837
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Sorry for putting wolf in such bad company, he isn't a bad choice, but a bad final reveal.
Wait you mentioned Roy, he was the final reveal for Melee?
….oh wait, 2001, limited internet. Last in that he's the last one numbered for Melee + his game wasn't out yet?
Sorry for putting wolf in such bad company, he isn't a bad choice, but a bad final reveal.
Last time I checked, his reveal was a leak.
In any of the games since Melee, has there been a minigame where you had to try to juggle an object or character in the air and not let it hit the ground for as long as possible? If not that might be a fun new challenge to go with Home Run King and Break the Targets.
HQ renders of the special alts. Y'know, Alph, Pikachu Libre, etc. (Source Gaming)
https://twitter.com/AllSourceGaming/status/1042073273889161217
Weird to me that Alph is a costume and not an echo fighter. I guess because there's literally no difference versus not much difference?
it actually bugs me that Alph isn't formally an echo.
I'm okay with him being a costume, as long as Brittany also gets one.
there's just a cosplay (wario and waluigi colors)
Named costumes (the koopalings and alph)
Low echoes (most of them)
High echoes (Chrome and Dark Samus)
Low level clones (Dr Mario, the links)
Eh level clones (Roy, Falco, Gdorf)
Lu level clones (Lucas, Luigi, WoLuf, IsabelLue)
Canonical Clones (Snake, Mewtwo)
Where is Ike? And Gdorf is at least the same clone level as Isabelle.
Corrin has some very well-detailed toes.
https://www.smashbros.com/en_US/sound/index.html
AC Happy Home Designer title theme added and it sounds amazing
Lol, smashboards is probably going nuts about the music theory now.
I also wish there were more pikmin captain skins. If we have every koopaling I don't get why we can't have Louie, Brittany and Charlie. Well, Charlie I get, he's huge… but Louie and Brittany would work.
Yay, Totaka arranged something.
so with Ganondorf, now it looks like this:
