@Long:
The whole goal of law was to take down doffy and if by some miracle he survived then they'd face kaido. That 30% number of his was probably just pulled out of his ass.
It definitely was. There is no way to calculate the percentage of possible success in that kind of scenario. But since it's a manga, we have to take this number a bit seriously.
I mean, it's Law who gave us this number, not Luffy or Baggy
I mean Law certainly didn't take in Luffy's ability to get people on his side, especially the toys that turned into formidable warriors. So that percentage certainly went up as the arc went on. But then again, he didn't know Doffy was a CD and how his whole plan went sideways. So, the percentage was certainly off.
As for Hawkins, its more about predicting the future…it has some basis b/c during marineford Luffy's survival rate never went to 0 no matter how many times he tried with his cards. I'm sure, we'll Hawkins percentage change as this arc unveils and we see more struggles for the SHs and also their allies showing up to fight the Kaidou army.
I'm sure Hawkins will switch sides as he sees SHs chances go up. Him and Apoo certainly jumped ships quickly when they faced Kaidou.
It definitely was. There is no way to calculate the percentage of possible success in that kind of scenario. But since it's a manga, we have to take this number a bit seriously.
I mean, it's Law who gave us this number, not Luffy or Baggy
I know Enel didn't do percentages, he was vague in numbering how many people would be left standing at the end of all the fighting so it was just an integer (and he was wrong about it anyway despite his powerful mantra), but maybe Hawkins' Haki is somewhat similar to his, where having some kind of connection to all the withered plantlife (straw and straw derivatives) gives him some kind of extra far-reaching Mantra-style predictive capability.
Well, it's just the cards giving him the odds of unfolding events. Is there really a point to call this a very developed observation haki like what Madam Shyarly has ?
As for Enel, I wish it was his mantra that told him how many people would be left alive. But it kinda looks like he just killed everyone and left 6 persons at the end of the day
Everyone arguing that Zoro killed Hawkins twice… does Apoo then also get credit for killing Kizaru in Saobody? Stop reaching. Your boy took an L.
I know Enel didn't do percentages, he was vague in numbering how many people would be left standing at the end of all the fighting so it was just an integer (and he was wrong about it anyway despite his powerful mantra), but maybe Hawkins' Haki is somewhat similar to his, where having some kind of connection to all the withered plantlife (straw and straw derivatives) gives him some kind of extra far-reaching Mantra-style predictive capability.
Enel planned a specific number would be left after a certain time and he pretty much got it(there was one more than planned left with 1 minute left so he zapped Robin). But it was more a guess based on the different people's strength than a knowledge of the future.
Everyone arguing that Zoro killed Hawkins twice… does Apoo then also get credit for killing Kizaru in Saobody? Stop reaching. Your boy took an L.
You are totally correct. Zoro didn't even get to use his 3 swords style and lost so fast :silly:
Zoro took damage, hawkins deflected all the damage to his underlings. And then zoro runs away and battle ends.
@uniaka:
Zoro took damage, hawkins deflected all the damage to his underlings. And then zoro runs away and battle ends.
My impression was that Zoro did well but if battle 1 vs 1 would drag out then Zoro would very likely take quite a lot more damage while "killing" Hawkings time after time.
With Hawkings pulling some good and some bad cards fight would end with Zoro taking out last "life" out of Hawkings.
I wonder why Haki is not working on that ability with some of the damage being dealt to Hawkings, bypassing this Devil Fruit power. It would have to be very special devil fruit power, not to be affected by Haki when it comes to damage..
Buggy's fruit is also not affected by Haki cuts in theory, as he splits by default. That could be wrong though..
This honestly surprised me too
Thinking about it more, Orlumbus leaving the flag would make the island a target, and considering the poor state they were already in. It would be even crueler.
My impression was that Zoro did well but if battle 1 vs 1 would drag out then Zoro would very likely take quite a lot more damage while "killing" Hawkings time after time.
With Hawkings pulling some good and some bad cards fight would end with Zoro taking out last "life" out of Hawkings.I wonder why Haki is not working on that ability with some of the damage being dealt to Hawkings, bypassing this Devil Fruit power. It would have to be very special devil fruit power, not to be affected by Haki when it comes to damage..
Is it a fact he was using Haki? I didn't pay that much attention but usually they'll allude to it if it makes sense to, which it would here. But if Zoro can still cut down Hawkins' overpowered straw demon, he can keep pulling out good cards and Zoro'll eventually overpower him. Zoro is a tank beast so he can probably be 'killed' as many times as Hawkins before his dummies run out and still keep on slicin'.
As for Buggy, it only makes sense if his body subconsciously splits apart before being cut, then there's no physical matter for a Haki attack to actually cut, so while his may already be as well-trained as Crocodile's or even better, to split up before contact is made, we aren't totally sure since it's unclear whether Mihawk used Haki on him during Marinford. Would be interesting to find out that he's even better defensively than Crocodile against Haki…but things like fists that cover a higher amount of surface area can still hit the mass of sand that Croc breaks into so that still presents a physical target since those grains of sand can't be that far apart or his entire body would be spread so thin he'd be nearly gaseous. Buggy's split pieces would have to be good at splitting up far apart instantly to give no surface area to hit, and since they're bigger they wouldn't have to worry about spreading too thin like Croc's sand. I'm probably over thinking this. Just bored at work and needing caffeine to get me through the last 1/3 of my shift. Ugh.
My impression was that Zoro did well but if battle 1 vs 1 would drag out then Zoro would very likely take quite a lot more damage while "killing" Hawkings time after time.
With Hawkings pulling some good and some bad cards fight would end with Zoro taking out last "life" out of Hawkings.I wonder why Haki is not working on that ability with some of the damage being dealt to Hawkings, bypassing this Devil Fruit power. It would have to be very special devil fruit power, not to be affected by Haki when it comes to damage..
I don't know if he was using Haki in the first place. And i'm also not sure if Zorro can use range Haki sword attacks like he did on Hawkings. Did we see him do that somewhere cause i don't remember. Everytime he used haki attacks he directly cut with the swords in one way or another (like in the fight with Pica).
I could be wrong but i don't remember him using range haki imbued attacks.
I'm more curious about Law vs Hawkins. Would law be able to cut hawkins himself anyway, because he can cotnrol anything in his room, can teleport, and it's more like magical swordmanship. And coudl he influence hawkin's cards too.
I don't know if he was using Haki in the first place. And i'm also not sure if Zorro can use range Haki sword attacks like he did on Hawkings. Did we see him do that somewhere cause i don't remember. Everytime he used haki attacks he directly cut with the swords in one way or another (like in the fight with Pica).
I could be wrong but i don't remember him using range haki imbued attacks.
He cut Monet with a flying slash so he can.
I'd place my bets on Law anyday
He cut Monet with a flying slash so he can.
One Piece Wikia says this:
"Physical contact is still required for Haki-users to harm a Logia user, which means that as long as the Logia user performs long-range, indirect attacks, they can remain perfectly invulnerable"
I don't know when this was stated in the manga but if it is true then it means Zorro either physicaly quickly slashed Monet under the eye or she let her guard down somehow and let that attack slip. Have we saw long range Haki imbued attacks so far in the manga?
Luffy vs Katakuri Full fight: https://www.docdroid.net/qrFOY9p/luffyxkata.pdf
Luffy vs Cracker Full fight : https://www.docdroid.net/Pk06JZL/luffy-vs-cracker.pdf
Luffy vs Doflamingo Full fight : https://www.docdroid.net/VDl3Ctf/luffyxdoffy.pdf
I'm pretty sure flying slashes count as physical attacks, since it depends on the user's strenght.
One Piece Wikia says this:
"Physical contact is still required for Haki-users to harm a Logia user, which means that as long as the Logia user performs long-range, indirect attacks, they can remain perfectly invulnerable"I don't know when this was stated in the manga but if it is true then it means Zorro either physicaly quickly slashed Monet under the eye or she let her guard down somehow and let that attack slip. Have we saw long range Haki imbued attacks so far in the manga?
Zoro cut Monets cheek with his air slash so Wikia got it wrong and thats all.
And there goes your effort to quote wikia and make a post :ninja:
One Piece Wikia says this:
"Physical contact is still required for Haki-users to harm a Logia user, which means that as long as the Logia user performs long-range, indirect attacks, they can remain perfectly invulnerable"I don't know when this was stated in the manga but if it is true then it means Zorro either physicaly quickly slashed Monet under the eye or she let her guard down somehow and let that attack slip. Have we saw long range Haki imbued attacks so far in the manga?
Using One Piece wiki that's your mistake. When Zoro cut Monet he was sitting down and she was in her Logia form.
Well, what other means for info do i have besides that and your feedback. And i also asked if there were any other long range immaterial attacks with Haki in One Piece … because if there aren't, Zorro is pretty much OP, almost on par with Benn Beckman what has long range haki attacks via bullets.
Yup zoro is the only one that has it. But I doubt it's strong, if it only cut her cheek. Likely the reason even wikia doesn't mention because it's still 1 time only and not explained.
About Ben, all haki users should be able to do that with bullets( unless there is some secret to using haki on ranged weapons). But yet we don't really see them do it, ever, not even Ben.
Oda still has explain haki, like properly.
@uniaka:
Yup zoro is the only one that has it. But I doubt it's strong, if it only cut her cheek. Likely the reason even wikia doesn't mention because it's still 1 time only and not explained.
About Ben, all haki users should be able to do that with bullets( unless there is some secret to using haki on ranged weapons). But yet we don't really see them do it, ever, not even Ben.
Oda still has explain haki, like properly.
The kujas do it with arrows
guys you think about that more than oda did.
oda is not consistent on these things, he also stated he doesn't care
radio knife from law to trebol wasn't imbued with haki and yet cut trebol and he wasn't able to get backin his shape as much as monet after hakiless zoro attack.
btw, even if we haven't seen something it doesn't mean we won't see that ever ;)
One Piece Wikia says this:
"Physical contact is still required for Haki-users to harm a Logia user, which means that as long as the Logia user performs long-range, indirect attacks, they can remain perfectly invulnerable"I don't know when this was stated in the manga but if it is true then it means Zorro either physicaly quickly slashed Monet under the eye or she let her guard down somehow and let that attack slip. Have we saw long range Haki imbued attacks so far in the manga?
I think that statement was specifically referring to when Monet was attacking Tashigi with blizzards and snow rabbits. Not sure what it had to do with Zoro's air slash, since that would have harmed Monet regardless of whether it had Haki since it took her off-guard and hit her physical body.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
guys you think about that more than oda did.
oda is not consistent on these things, he also stated he doesn't care
radio knife from law to trebol wasn't imbued with haki and yet cut trebol and he wasn't able to get backin his shape as much as monet after hakiless zoro attack.
btw, even if we haven't seen something it doesn't mean we won't see that ever ;)
Trebol is Paramecia and Radio Knife specifically prevents cut people from being put back together for a time
Spoiler:
@Kaido:
I wonder how much of that 19% involves the Straw Hats taking the option of running away.
I rather hope that they don't run at all (as in a long-term chase), since some of the Straw Hat alliance was forced to run from Big Mom, after Luffy said he wouldn't run during his dialogue with Fujitora at the end of Dressrosa. I actually think this is basically the end of "Run Piece", because they're having to face this massive wall of a threat that they ostensibly have to defeat this arc. While in Big Mom's arc it was just a 'get in and get the hell out' type of mission. The only type of running I see from here on out is maybe if there's a Mt. Fuji that explodes in Wano or something like that.
But I do, like you, wonder if those odds are just factoring in pre-determined fate, instead of all options? So since their fate is to face Kaido, I don't think it's calculating the option to run away.
Unrelated but also I'm excited to see Kaido's main ship if we're going to see that soon. :) Big Mom's Queen Mama Chanter was awesome.
Croc or Enel would never.
Wanna see the "ancient civilization destroyed" thing done really well? FFXIV did a great take on it. The bar's high for One Piece to beat.
I rather hope that they don't run at all (as in a long-term chase), since some of the Straw Hat alliance was forced to run from Big Mom, after Luffy said he wouldn't run during his dialogue with Fujitora at the end of Dressrosa. I actually think this is basically the end of "Run Piece", because they're having to face this massive wall of a threat that they ostensibly have to defeat this arc. While in Big Mom's arc it was just a 'get in and get the hell out' type of mission. The only type of running I see from here on out is maybe if there's a Mt. Fuji that explodes in Wano or something like that.
But I do, like you, wonder if those odds are just factoring in pre-determined fate, instead of all options? So since their fate is to face Kaido, I don't think it's calculating the option to run away.
Unrelated but also I'm excited to see Kaido's main ship if we're going to see that soon. :) Big Mom's Queen Mama Chanter was awesome.
They're definitely not going to run away from Kaido. But I'm not really of the mindset that fortunetelling involves that kind of specific predestination. They have the choice to lie low, and Hawkins' vagueness makes it feel like there's a lot of possible things that the Straw Hats could do within the next month. Once Luffy is locked in Kaido's reach, I think his odds of survival will go down to 0% 
I wouldn't like to see the Straw Hats get beaten again, but maybe if they do and Kaido puts Luffy in some horrible public torture, but he survives it, that might be the linchpin where the people of Wano start to rebel against him, or something
I dunno.
Funny how Luffy is now emperor, yet he has only 19% to survive after this confrontation with another emperor, yet emeperors have always been balanced. It's really hard to push the underdog card for luffy these days after cake island 1,5 billion bounty and emeror status.
Luffy is emperor level? As in he is strong as Kaido or Big Mom? This Luffy is the same Luffy as the one from Totland arc, he is at least on Headliner-Calamity level.
That Fifth Emperor thing was only Fake News Morgans stunt.
All we know is that luffy beat vice yonkou, so now he is at least a bit above vice yonkou. What is the difference between yonkou and vice yonkou is only a guess.
And that was no fake news, we can see morgan's article and he said it exactly how it was, not fake info in there, and the fact that Stussy was there too, she would give the proper report if he lied.
But considering WG gave luffy a new bounty that is 1 billion more then his former bounty, that is also much higher then vice yonkou katakuri, then this confirms that Wg considers Luffy emeror now.
@uniaka:
All we know is that luffy beat vice yonkou, so now he is at least a bit above vice yonkou. What is the difference between yonkou and vice yonkou is only a guess.
It can be a whole grand canyon of a gap just like the difference between Al Might and Endeavor.
And that was no fake news, we can see morgan's article and he said it exactly how it was, not fake info in there, and the fact that Stussy was there too, she would give the proper report if he lied.
The results would be the rise of Luffy's bounty, turning him into a future threat that needs to be eliminated before it can become like an emperor.
Also, we don't know she even cares about this sort of stuff. Just like Lucci is only being a CP-0 so he can have permission to kill.
But considering WG gave luffy a new bounty that is 1 billion more then his former bounty, that is also much higher then vice yonkou katakuri, then this confirms that Wg considers Luffy emeror now.
Reminder that Usopp has a higher bounty than Franky.
@uniaka:
But considering WG gave luffy a new bounty that is 1 billion more then his former bounty, that is also much higher then vice yonkou katakuri, then this confirms that Wg considers Luffy emeror now.
He is most likely considered in the middle. More dangerous than any single individual but less than the yonkos and their armies.
Dogtooth is a single person and an underling. Luffy has a fleet and is his own man.
Luffy isn't a Yonko when the one he supposedly beat still doesn't view him as a legitimate opponent and another one thinks it's too early for him to be labeled as such. Only way he earns that status is by beating Kaido.
Spoiler:
Shanks didn't think it's too early, and him and luffy go way back, what does BB know about luffy? He became yonkou beating marco and his crew, luffy alone beat BM's 2 top commanders that are like the jozu and marco of BM alone. And yonkous have been balanced, so luffy beating one and breaking the balance puts him above yonkous, not on par.
And usopp example doesn't really work, 200m was never huge, even pre ts, he can joke around in the crew with usopp having 3rd Bounty for a while( now he is number 5), but when you go to 1,5 there is no joke anymore, only the top wanted people in the world have that level of Bounty, with only the yonkous and dragon that could have bigger.
@uniaka:
Shanks didn't think it's too early, and him and luffy go way back, what does BB know about luffy? He became yonkou beating marco and his crew, luffy alone beat BM's 2 top commanders that are like the jozu and marco of BM alone. And yonkous have been balanced, so luffy beating one and breaking the balance puts him above yonkous, not on par.
And usopp example doesn't really work, 200m was never huge, even pre ts, he can joke around in the crew with usopp having 3rd Bounty for a while( now he is number 5), but when you go to 1,5 there is no joke anymore, only the top wanted people in the world have that level of Bounty, with only the yonkous and dragon that could have bigger.
Only 11 pirates in an entire generation went above 100M. So yeah, 200M is a big deal I think
Above 100 in paradise, In NW kinda everyone we saw so far has that or more( like caribou and even his brother too), minus some SHs because they just got here, and bobbin. Killer is the one that has that too, but then again he is KIdd's cook.
Luffy is emperor level? As in he is strong as Kaido or Big Mom? This Luffy is the same Luffy as the one from Totland arc, he is at least on Headliner-Calamity level.
That Fifth Emperor thing was only Fake News Morgans stunt.
Interesting, because I've also seen Luffy's 1.5 billion bounty made out to be as if it's also part of a fake news stunt, and that Luffy and Katakuri don't deserve bounties that are that high, as if 1 billion+ bounties are only truly deserving for actual Yonko-level characters. Not sure if I agree with that though.
To be on par with the Yonko, you have to be able to stand your ground and hold your own. Blackbeard had a crushing victory over the Whitebeard Pirates, whereas the Straw Hats and their allies were constantly outflanked and overwhelmed by the BMPs even when Big Mom herself wasn't in the equation. Luffy beating Katakuri was impressive, but he only barely managed to do so and Katakuri's not the Yonko here. If Luffy was actually on par with Big Mom or any of the other Yonko, then there should be a realizable possibility that he has as much chance of beating them as they do of beating him. Which I'm not seeing atm. Big Mom is waltzing into Kaido's territory because she's confident he can't easily kill her, whereas right now the Straw Hats are doing their best to go undercover in Wano because they're not fully equipped to take on Kaido's crew at just any time.
Law's fruit was to be sold for 5 Billions. That's the highest amount we know off so far. I expect Dragon's bounty to be higher since he is the "most wanted" man. Yonkos would be directly below him or there could be a huge gulf between their bounties. I'm also interested in Roger's last bounty raise :wub: Rayleigh's too.
Interesting, because I've also seen Luffy's 1.5 billion bounty made out to be as if it's also part of a fake news stunt, and that Luffy and Katakuri don't deserve bounties that are that high, as if 1 billion+ bounties are only truly deserving for actual Yonko-level characters. Not sure if I agree with that though.
No, the bounty is fine. But the notion of being the Fifth Emperor is an overhype tool.
Worth of note that there isn't anything in the manga stating that, for someone to be considered an Emperor, they must match the power level of the already existing ones/their crews.
Morgans was never under the assumption that Luffy was as strong as Big Mom when he made his claim that he was a Fifth Emperor, there wasn't anything in his news to suggest that either. It is pretty clear this requirement is entirely on the fans, not something that exists on the OP universe.
Based on that chapter, we can tell that being a very strong pirate is a requirement, but not "being as strong as _____". A huge bounty and defeating strong enemies seemed to count as much as Luffy's numerous acheivements and the fact he got many pirate crews under his flag.
Also, Morgans using fake news to hype Luffy was something that only existed on the misleading spoilers. The spoilers suggested Morgans said Luffy had defeated Big Mom, but when the chapter came out we saw that didn't happen and every bit of information Morgans used was true.
One of the main reasons I decided to avoid spoilers from now on, mainly the spoiler discussions, is exactly because of this. A lot of people draw wrong conclusions based on misleading spoilers and those are crystalized within the fandom, becoming "facts" even if the real chapter denies the whole thing.
@Kaido:
Not sure what it had to do with Zoro's air slash, since that would have harmed Monet regardless of whether it had Haki since it took her off-guard and hit her physical body.
I think Monet was a trained logia (a la crocodile) since she manged to avoid Robin's unexpected attack when she helped Chopper or was it Nami? that quarto hand thing that broke Monet's head.
The following conversation also implied that Zoro could've done more than just a small cut with a bigger slash if he wanted too, if read/remember that scene correctly.
Anyone think a lot of Hawkins' death blows aren't really death blows? Back in Saobody, after he lost all his dolls, he took another laser through him, but he did not die from it. However before, Kizaru's lawyers lasers were taking out 1-2 dolls per shot. I think he seems to be transferring any damage over a certain threshold, many of which he could normally fight through if he didn't have his dolls
Anyone think a lot of Hawkins' death blows aren't really death blows? Back in Saobody, after he lost all his dolls, he took another laser through him, but he did not die groom it. However before, Kizaru's lawyers lasers were taking out 1-2 dolls per shot. I think he seems to be transferring ashy damage over a certain threshold, many of which he could normally fight through if he didn't have his dolls
Yea I'm sure he can take damage. Why take damage when u don't need to? I think he's just following that philosophy lol…hopefully he's not like cracker where he doesn't like pain and is weak physically and depends on his DF too much.
I think Monet was a trained logia (a la crocodile) since she manged to avoid Robin's unexpected attack when she helped Chopper or was it Nami? that quarto hand thing that broke Monet's head.
Robin slapped her face off with her attack "Spank"; Nami hurt her with hot bubbles.
@Buggy:
Yea I'm sure he can take damage. Why take damage when u don't need to? I think he's just following that philosophy lol…hopefully he's not like cracker where he doesn't like pain and is weak physically and depends on his DF too much.
Yeah, maybe. My suspicion is Oda just does it to show off his abilities. Practically, feels like a waste of lives if he as a small finite number. e.g. He would definitely run out at that rate in a prolonged fight b/w him and Zoro/Luffy.
No, the bounty is fine. But the notion of being the Fifth Emperor is an overhype tool.
I still suspect that Luffy's current bounty is a little too inflated based on the lie that he was the mastermind behind the operation, and that the newspaper seemed to make him out to be "a fifth emperor that Big Mom lost to," as if he had practically beat her down. I'm thinking, based on completely honest terms, Luffy's bounty should be more like 1 billion as opposed to 1.5 billion:
I still suspect that Luffy's current bounty is a little too inflated based on the lie that he was the mastermind behind the operation, and that the newspaper seemed to make him out to be "a fifth emperor that Big Mom lost to," as if he had practically beat her down. I'm thinking, based on completely honest terms, Luffy's bounty should be more like 1 billion as opposed to 1.5 billion:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/164971940648321024/477634067295109120/unknown.png
Dogtooth has a 1 billion bounty. Luffy hashis strength and a strong crew, strong alliances and a big fleet. If Dogtooth is 1billion there's nothing crazy to Luffy being worth more considering he has much more assets than Dogtooth.
