Bomberman is already an assist trophy lol.
Super Smash Bros
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It's unlikely there will be a Smash 6 after this.
All this looks like a Farewell Gift from Sakurai.
Smash is one of Nintendo’s biggest franchises. No way this the final game.
However, I do think the next game is going to try something different and Ultimate will be the last “normal” game in the series. They’ve hit a point where just adding more stages and characters with a few mechanical changes that only fans will care about isn’t feasible. They’re running out of noteworthy Nintendo series to pull from, and adding more third-party characters would eventually diminish the game’s status as Nintendo-focused crossover.
The next game will have less characters, and they’ll probably try and change things to make up for it.
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Because he's a costume, being an echo implies slight touches to the movesets (including a different final smash).
Just like all the gaunlet of koopalings, or the gender of avatar characters.
I guess that's why "echo" is formally used instead of clone? If we're talking final smashes, Lucina and Marth both have Critical Hit but Dark Pit presumably still has that arrow attack. 50:50 shot if Daisy has the same FS as PEach.
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This is relevant to all Daisy mains.
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I don't think it's a coincidence they showed Waluigi and Lyn assist trophies right off the bat. My question given the number of trolls in the Direct is whether they were shown to shut up fans, or to set up the an even bigger troll of "just kidding, they got promoted to being playable."
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@Daz:
Simon Belmont, Bomberman and Megaman Zero (GBA version). More Megaman reps beyond that'd be swell, but I'd be pretty cool with that.
Consdiering Bomberman is an assist trophy now, that seems unlikely.
Belmont (any Belmont or Castlevania rep really) is the really conspicuous missing franchise, and always has been.
Tails (& Knuckles)
Rayman (I don't care, but seeing how many games and history he actually has under his belt….)
a more indie character (shantae, shovel knight, etc.)
Tetris. No idea how it would work, but... Tetris. -
Ornstein and Smough as Echo characters of the Ice Climbers.
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Smash is one of Nintendo’s biggest franchises. No way this the final game.
However, I do think the next game is going to try something different and Ultimate will be the last “normal” game in the series. They’ve hit a point where just adding more stages and characters with a few mechanical changes that only fans will care about isn’t feasible. They’re running out of noteworthy Nintendo series to pull from, and adding more third-party characters would eventually diminish the game’s status as Nintendo-focused crossover.
The next game will have less characters, and they’ll probably try and change things to make up for it.
Damn. Nailed all the points.
Even as far back as Smash 4's huge roster I had a sense of diminishing returns in the future, but yeah, 65+ characters featuring EVERYONE from nearly 20 years of these games can't be topped. (at least, for me)
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Even as far back as Smash 4's huge roster I had a sense of diminishing returns in the future, but yeah, 65+ characters featuring EVERYONE from nearly 20 years of these games can't be topped. (at least, for me)
Sure it can. Anime tie in games and musou games keep reusing assets all the time until they reach rosters in the 100's.
Long as they don't do a complete overhaul retool of the engine that changes everything or completely different graphics they can keep reusing this setup for a long time to come with most of the legwork already in place.
Eventually the tech will move far enough these graphics won't cut it anymore… but for 2.5d cartoon characters in a frantic screen it works pretty well.
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Here's a fun idea for a character - another trainer! Think about the fun options: you could do Rival Trainer, with Blastoise and two other randos or a Team Rocket guy or a Bug Trainer or someone from the Elite Four or a Gym Master?
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Sure it can. Anime tie in games and musou games keep reusing assets all the time until they reach rosters in the 100's..
I mean, if you told me a few days ago there would be 65 characters I would just think of those circa 2007 fanmade character selections:
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I'll be fine if there never were a completely new Smash game.
Just keep make it live with seasonal DLC additions and make a Smash Ultimate 4K edition whenever Nintendo release a console capable of doing that.
Now instead of making a new Smash, I would rather Nintendo do new big crossovers with different genres : RPG, Musou, Racing, Platformer…
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Let shonen jump use this engine instead of whatever they are doing.
Wishful thinking, bandai will do it, and that is why jump force isn't for switch.
You can't bring goku to smash but you can bring smash to goku.
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I mean, if you told me a few days ago there would be 65 characters I would just think of those circa 2007 fanmade character selections:
http://orig11.deviantart.net/e26e/f/2008/237/d/b/super_smash_bros__rumble_by_steelia.png
Toon Ganondorf, Waddle Dee and Geno on this list gives me such a bittersweet feeling.
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Consdiering Bomberman is an assist trophy now, that seems unlikely.
Belmont (any Belmont or Castlevania rep really) is the really conspicuous missing franchise, and always has been.
Tails (& Knuckles)
Rayman (I don't care, but seeing how many games and history he actually has under his belt….)
a more indie character (shantae, shovel knight, etc.)
Tetris. No idea how it would work, but… Tetris.Given the crossover game with Mario and Rabbids, it's almost insulting not to have both Rayman and Rabbid characters in it. But then, I dislike the third-party additions in principle so…
And Tetris as a stage, with constant falling objects and ground disappearing underfoot, at least, would be an awesome inclusion if not adding an actual character.
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Peach rabbid at the very least deserves to be an assist trophy.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Gamexplain found (was told and made a video out of) even more stages. The count is at 80something. And the grand total is around 120.
Other than the different bunch of "fight on top of the great fox" stages, and maybe hanebow (electroplankton for brawl), one of the pictochats and miiverse, we are way too close to "all of them" as well.
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As stated above. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the last Smash game in the sense that we know since they giving people EVERYTHING. I mean, how do you step up from that? Just more stages and characters? The Smash community is so rigid in their desire to keep the game locked in the melee gameplay that they'll never accept any massive gameplay changes.
So, yeah the future looks interesting and I am curious if Nintendo makes another Smash within the next decade, or they just leave it here.
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So, yeah the future looks interesting and I am curious if Nintendo makes another Smash within the next decade, or they just leave it here.
With DLC they can milk this one alone for years to come yet. Certainly through the end of the Switch's lifespan, and it just started, it may be 5-7 years before the next go round… and then another couple years before the next smash after that.
As is this one is kind of just an upgrade of the DLC of the WiiU version which was just an upgrade of the 3DS version. So this is already kind of the fourth game off the same assetts.... and if they're happy with them then it'll settle for a while.
Also in another three years there will be an Ultimate Final version with all the DLC included.
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With DLC they can milk this one alone for years to come yet. Certainly through the end of the Switch's lifespan, and it just started, it may be 5-7 years before the next go round… and then another couple years before the next smash after that.
As is this one is kind of just an upgrade of the WiiU version which was just an upgrade of the Wii/DS version. So this is already kind of the fourth game off the same assetts.... and if they're happy with them then it'll settle for a while.
Also in another three years there will be an Ultimate Final version with all the DLC included.
In the West, we would call this a "content patch" instead of a new game.
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In a Wii U?
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There wasn't a Smash DS, Robby.
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There wasn't a Smash DS, Robby.
3DS then. You know what I meant.
I played it on a handheld. I still call the things "gameboys".
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3DS then. You know what I meant.
I played it on a handheld. I still call the things "gameboys".
Old Man Robby, just need a comic or a movie and you're all set.
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SSBU is 1080p 60FPS docked and 720p 60FPS handheld
Not bad on either side
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According to gameXplain there is a total of 83 stages that have been found apparently
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[hide][/hide]
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Found out Link fires sword beams when at 0%. Such a cool detail.
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Wasn't that in Smash U? Or maybe Skyward Sword? :thinking:
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The longass pause just before the release date, I flipped out and thougth for a second there that he was going to say "right now", as Hollow Knight and Fortnight were, even if the scale of the 3 games is completelly different.
No joke, I probably would have bought a Switch yesterday if that turned out to be the case, and I would've loved to see the sales figures on that resul. The switch has enough decent games at this point anyway so I see a purchase coming in the near future.
It's unlikely there will be a Smash 6 after this.
So, yeah the future looks interesting and I am curious if Nintendo makes another Smash within the next decade, or they just leave it here.
Eeeeh I dunno, I could see another Smash coming out in less than a decade. I don't think I'm gonna speculate on that too much since this one isn't even out yet. But for sure, there's no way Nintendo would let a series like Smash fade away.
All this looks like a Farewell Gift from Sakurai.
I thought so, too, but the guy also said Smash 4 was gonna be his last. But here we are!
This kinda thing happens all the time with creative people, they put unhealthy amounts of time (literally in this case) into projects, and once they're released they feel the burnout. Then they cool off for a while and realize they still love what they did, so they come back for it. Film directors do it quite often. And Miyazaki's pretty notorious for doing that kind of thing.If this really was Sakurai's last, I wouldn't be surprised, and I'd be kinda glad, I don't want him pushing himself too hard again.
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Just a few thoughts:
*I'm pretty positive Fox and Falco will have had their lines rerecorded, given their new cinematic FS. I hope Mike West is back as Fox here (and in Starlink) so he can fix up his performance: I couldn't stand him in S4, but he was great in Zero.*On the flip side, unless Snake actually keeps his Codec option in Shadow Moses and gets new ones for the new characters that need recording, I have the suspicion that David Hayter's lines will just be reused from Brawl.
*Last voice thing: if Marth is getting an English VA, why am I hearing that Cloud is still undubbed? Even if Steve Burton's union status keeps him from doing it, they should get him some kind of English actor for consistency's sake, but I guess that's between Square and Nintendo.
*Speaking of Square and Nintendo, they really oughta just get Geno in there already. He's been requested just as long and hard as Ridley, Sakurai likes him, and Capcom and Sega already set precedent with two characters. The costume in S4 was a cute joke, but let's get serious, if you'd be so kind, guys.
*Nice to have Squirtle and Ivysaur back, but with Charizard, it's gonna be tough going back to the Trainer format and losing down-B, especially since Sheik and ZSS are still separate. It'd be great to at least have the option of fully separate characters with individual down-Bs, or having the changing button be a separate one.
Added: I also hope that with the Ice Climbers, there's still the option of controlling Nana and having Popo follow. You could tell because on the character select, changing their costume would have them switch places, only now it looks like the render colors stay the same with Popo in front. Maybe we can select which one like we can Sq/Iv/Char?
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Using the inkling "recharge ink" new command instead of Pokémon swap for at least them would be nice.
I think it is shield b.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
We have konami, Sega, capcom, bandai, square enix and... Platinum, with Ubisoft as almost here, one feet in the door.
That is a lot. If each third party (except capcom that already has 2, and ubisoft as newcomer) gets to 2 guests, we would be at 13 third parties, (or 12 depending on how they count wonder red).
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As far as I know, Sega owns the Bayonetta IP and Nintendo owns the W101 stuff. Platinum wasn't listed in the copyright holders.
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I think that you are right. Getting up to 5 more third parties (to not overcrowd the original 12) would be unfair to the first party stars left.
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We have a new Dojo.
This time as I'm at europe it updates at decent-person hours instead of at 3am!!!
https://www.smashbros.com/en_US/blog/index.html
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I've written so much shit about this game last few days, but the rebranding of clones, and regarding them as 2th class fighters in the final roster is a master strategy of marketing. I don't know if people are just still high on hype or not, but there has been way less negative reaction to them.
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–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I've written so much shit about this game last few days, but the rebranding of clones, and regarding them as 2th class fighters in the final roster is a master strategy of marketing. I don't know if people are just still high on hype or not, but there has been way less negative reaction to them.
I think it's because it's a way to appease both camps.
"Clones" are now acknowledged as such, without the actual word "clone" (as that's negatively charged), but also because no one has to lose an existing main for said "clone", because well….everyone is back. One big happy Smash family.
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Yeah, its a matter of focusing on the positives.
BTW, the demo. The goddamned 30 character demo. That is more than melee had!
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Gamexplain interview:
Custom moves removed
Have I told you that this is a new game built from the ground up the last 10 minutes?
Final list of stages is overwhelming -
I got dressed up for the tournament and decided to visit my brother and record our reactions. If Ridley was going to be revealed I want to relive the moment forever! I might be a bit emotionally imbalanced.
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Ok, I've had a couple of days to process this.
Yeeeeeeessssss.
This is almost everything I wanted. Just need a few more newcomers and a more robust single player mode and the game is perfect.
I'm glad they're finally just reusing and tweaking the old engine. I don't understand why Sakurai always rebuilt the engine and the physics from scratch every game. That's why there's such a huge divide in the Smash community. The games all feel too different from one another. Sm4sh was never going to fully win over the Melee4Ever crowd, but Sm4sh seems to satisfy the majority of the people who are willing to give a new game a chance.
This is looking like a slightly sped up Sm4sh engine which is amazing.
Being able to turn off stage gimmicks without changing the stage geometry is also one of the things I've REALLY wanted for a while.
This is gonna blow the Sm4sh tournament scene wide open. It should lead to a ton of new tournament legal stages. This, plus the speed changes should cause a complete refresh of the meta.
Every single character coming back is amazing but it blindsided me… it's just surprising as all hell.
I mean, I had considered the idea that reusing the engine meant they could carry over ALL the characters potentially but when I said that I was thinking all the characters that were in Sm4sh since they'd all be immediately be usable in that engine. A lot of these returning veterans probably took at least some work to get going. Especially Squirtle and Ivysaur.
I expected Ice Climbers and Wolf, but I assumed Snake was off limits due to Konami going scorched Earth on Kojima etc. Young Link and Pichu are just clones so I didn't think they'd be a priority, while Ivysaur and Squirtle are somewhat more plausible.
But EVERYONE?! That's just crazy.
I know that's gonna mean not as many Newcomers as we're used to and I'm ok with that tho I do hope we get at least 2-3 more. Maybe EVEN MORE via DLC later? Please Sakurai?
Since "Listen to the fans" seems to be the mantra this time around, Dixie Kong, King K-Rool, and/or Geno please? Thinking we'll probably get a rep from Arms... maybe that leak from a while back was right and Simon Belmont's in here? Snake's inclusion would hint that this is at least possible. Paper Mario is also a possibility I'd be in favor of.
But the ones we do have look good. Inklings look super intricate in a good way and that get sme excited to learn them. Ridley... I never thought would happen in a million years, but he's definitely neat. He's the biggest character by far and his moves look interesting, especially the sweet spot tail thing. Can't wait to dig into him... Then there's Daisy... Man I've never been so happy to have a clone. I've been wanting Daisy as a costume for Peach for a while. I'll take her as a separate clone though no problem.
That brings up another interesting situation. They've officially rebranded pure clones as "Echo Fighters". That's a smart move. It looks like people are taking that a little better and are a tad less upset about it lol.
The criteria they're using to denote these guys seems fairly hardline and straight forward.
The character has to have effectively the same moveset with only the properties tweaked.
Pit and Lucina are the only ones from Sm4sh who fit that bill. Dr. Mario has the Mario Tornado vs. Mario's FLUDD, some of Toon Link's attacks are different like his dash attack, Lucas has entirely different A-attacks etc.This does also make me wonder about Young Link and Pichu. Are they going to be changed up some? Could be interesting.
Speaking of (man, I'm the queen of smooth segways right now) GANON FINALLY HAS A FREAKING SWORD!!! All of his A attacks seem to have a sword, and I'm SO freaking happy about that. I wanna see a lot more de-cloning of other clones too.
AAAAAAAAAH!! SO EXCITED!!!
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When I first saw Ganondorf new smashes they seemed the same, but it wasn't his that I was remembering, it was Ike's.
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When I first saw Ganondorf new smashes they seemed the same, but it wasn't his that I was remembering, it was Ike's.
Did they just steal Ike's then?
Is Ganondorf a Frankenclone?
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They are at his video on the official site:
https://www.smashbros.com/en_US/fighter/23.html
The web designers for smash are the best.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Items shown on today's stream, they claimed to be all the new items available in the build, I'm not sure.
Kirby's walking bomb enemy, Bomber: pick it up and activate to create an explosion, the user doesn't get hurt if it explodes this way. Otherwise it starts walking slowly and can explode on it's own, or can get attacked to explode it.
Fake smash ball: explodes on break, follows a player instead of escaping them, it's horizontal line is the bigger one on this one.
Banana gun: it's a banana, you shoot the fruit, it explodes in combat, and then you can use the peel
Launch Star: Galaxy's stars, launches you in the opposite direction from where you tossed it
Healing Zone: throw it to create an area where you can heal, didn't catch how much
Black Hole: draws you to the middle of it, no damage -
Did they just steal Ike's then?
Is Ganondorf a Frankenclone?
The phrase "Hijacked by Ganon" has taken on a new meaning.
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Pokemon:
Giratina
Abomansnow
Scizor
Staryu
Metagross
Deoxys
Kyogre
SuicuneAlolan Raichu: surf around
Bewear: uppercut
Abra: teleports around with you
Alolan Vulpix: shoots ice breaths
Togedemaru: electricity around itself, doesn't moveBackground of pokeparis, they are fixed events it seems.
Zapdos
Yveltal
Emolga
Helioptile–- Update From New Post Merge ---
These are just from the items showcase BTW:
Assists:
Nintendog
Dr Kawashima
Ghosts
Hammer bro
Takamaru
Samurai goroh
Andross
Pong-like thing
Dr Wright (the sim city one)
Jeff
Sheriff
Knuckle joe
LynBomberman: Plants his classic bombs, you can attack them to move them,probably only the black ones
Calie and Marie: kind of the new sudden death, close up of the camera on them, including blastzones
Snagret: travels underground to peck arround
Krystal:Magic ice staff and combo -
I don't know why I feel the need to confess this, but I'm glad Dr. Mario is back. I like his moveset being Mario with slightly more power, and I enjoyed that he kept Mario's original Down B. It's a small thing, but I'm curious who won out with every character making a return.
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Agreed abt Dr Mario. Ive hated the Fludd attack on Mario since they implemented it.
Definitely sounds like Custom Moves are gone. Thats a shame as I enjoyed the idea of them but hated the application. (Couldn't buy what you wanted with in game currency, unlocking was random and you could get the same ones mulitple times for no reason)
I don't see Waluigi popping up as an assist trophy. I'm still holding out hope that he'll be a troll reveal.
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Waluigis entrance at the start of a match is him popping out of an Assist Trophy. Done.
The leak that said Ridley was in and all past characters were in also mentioned Simon Belmont's inclusion. Two out of three isn't bad, here's hoping for all three.
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Despite being a Mario main, I'm not too big a fan of Dr. Mario… which kinda makes me sad since the Mario Tornado is infinitely better than FLUDD.
I really wish they'd replaced FLUDD with some Cappy move. At bare minimum throwing Cappy should have been Mario's new grab animation.
FLUDD has its uses, it's really good against Little Mac, but it's limited.
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It's fucking ridiculous that Ridley got in just because of the "To Big" - Meme. Whine another two years and Waluigi is in too. Waste of ressources imho.