I think we have to see things on other angles, like the fact Jinbe has the advantage over Ace's Fire abilities and how strong Ace became after he joined the WB Pirates.
And how strong Ace would be currently if he didn't died.
Just Saiyan.
Chapter 903: The Fifth Emperor
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I think we have to see things on other angles, like the fact Jinbe has the advantage over Ace's Fire abilities.
FUCK
I actually feel stupid for not considering that.
Still, I think Ace is probably in the same tier as Snack and Perospero (fire weakness notwithstanding) overall. I know bounties aren't powerlevels, but Katakuri's bounty is almost twice as big, and that has to mean something.
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Regardless of who would beat who in a fight, we will know for sure that Luffy has surpassed Ace when Kaido is defeated. Ace and his crew were powerless before the might of the Yonko and it changed the course of their lives.
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I just realized how much Ace sucks at picking his fights. The major ones involve his enemies having ability advantages since Jinbe has water, Teach nullifies Logia intangibility, and Akainu's lava "burns hotter" than fire. And the few other fights he picks are with people who are also intangible (like Smoker) and people above his weight class (Whitebeard and Aokiji). Although a full Ace vs. Aokiji fight would be interesting since we don't know the extent of whether or not fire could beat ice or ice could beat fire.
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
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@Count:
I just realized how much Ace sucks at picking his fights. The major ones involve his enemies having ability advantages since Jinbe has water, Teach nullifies Logia intangibility, and Akainu's lava "burns hotter" than fire. And the few other fights he picks are with people who are also intangible (like Smoker) and people above his weight class (Whitebeard and Aokiji). Although a full Ace vs. Aokiji fight would be interesting since we don't know the extent of whether or not fire could beat ice or ice could beat fire.
I'm pretty sure Jimbei doesn't have an advantage over Ace. I'm not sure why one would think fire is particularly weak to water. It just make him not powerless. Croc is the one weak to water.
Also Magma isn't hotter than fire it extinguish it. As in dirt smother fire and Magma is part earth. So to Magma Ace is a regular human.
Fire is weak to Magma. Water and Fire we don't know(pretty sure they just hurt each other like with regular people). Fire and Ice equals out (doesn't do much to each other). Fire dominates smoke. None really has to do with the temperature but rather how they interact as substances.
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@Count:
I just realized how much Ace sucks at picking his fights. The major ones involve his enemies having ability advantages since Jinbe has water, Teach nullifies Logia intangibility, and Akainu's lava "burns hotter" than fire. And the few other fights he picks are with people who are also intangible (like Smoker) and people above his weight class (Whitebeard and Aokiji). Although a full Ace vs. Aokiji fight would be interesting since we don't know the extent of whether or not fire could beat ice or ice could beat fire.
I guess he really….
puts on sunglasses
got burned by his choices.
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I'm pretty sure Jimbei doesn't have an advantage over Ace. I'm not sure why one would think fire is particularly weak to water.
Gee, I wonder how someone could get that impression…
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I'm pretty sure Jimbei doesn't have an advantage over Ace. I'm not sure why one would think fire is particularly weak to water. It just make him not powerless. Croc is the one weak to water.
If Crocodile (sand) is weak to water and Katakuri (mochi) is weak to water, then why not fire too? I think it is an intuitive assumption, especially when Jinbe's water is able to hurt Prometheus during the escape and force Prometheus out of Big Mom's hair when she was terrorizing the ship.
Fire is portrayed as being weak to water all over media because of firefighters using water hoses to extinguish fires and larger bodies of water countering fire in real life (although it's more complicated than that generalization, I know). Considering how frequent this happens in fiction, why can't I assume that Oda will take the easy cliche route and have Ace's fire be weak to Jinbe's water attacks?
Also Magma isn't hotter than fire it extinguish it. As in dirt smother fire and Magma is part earth. So to Magma Ace is a regular human.
Let's not pretend that Oda put actual thought into how Ace died besides the average preconception that fire and lava are both hot and red/orange, but lava has the connotation of being more dangerous.
Fire is weak to Magma. Water and Fire we don't know(pretty sure they just hurt each other like with regular people). Fire and Ice equals out (doesn't do much to each other). Fire dominates smoke. None really has to do with the temperature but rather how they interact as substances.
It all depends on how a series wants to execute those dynamics. They can do in all sorts of ways. Akainu's literal words are that "lava burns hotter than fire" which is factually incorrect, so somebody else writing a series can have lava and fire equally matched or have fire to be superior. Fire and ice can equal each other our or one can have an advantage over the other like the fire>ice type advantage in Pokemon. Fire and smoke… can really go in whatever direction. They can even be combined into one superpower like in Infamous: Second Son.
Another example is water and electricity. Pokemon has electricity>water, but I've seen several shows where people with lightning powers short out and even hurt themselves if they're doused with water while creating an electric attack. Basically, whoever is wet whether from controlling water, being made of water, or having water sprayed on them is weak to electricity and stories can choose which to pick and which to ignore.
Again, it's all up to the author on how much they want to accurately interpret and purposefully/ignorantly deviate from real life science.
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
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@Count:
If Crocodile (sand) is weak to water and Katakuri (mochi) is weak to water, then why not fire too? I think it is an intuitive assumption, especially when Jinbe's water is able to hurt Prometheus during the escape and force Prometheus out of Big Mom's hair when she was terrorizing the ship.Considering how frequent this happens in fiction, why can't I assume that Oda will take the easy cliche route and have Ace's fire be weak to Jinbe's water attacks?
Because Oda always mention those. I would but that Ace was at a disadvantage if they were in a lake or something but in the middle of land I don't buy it. We would have had one of the endless minions behind him mention how lucky Jimbei is that he is using water or else Ace wouldn't be so weak or some similar sentence.
Let's not pretend that Oda put actual thought into how Ace died besides the average preconception that fire and lava are both hot and red/orange, but lava has the connotation of being more dangerous.
To me it was a case just like the candle man blocking poison. I know the whole magma is hotter than fire is the way most people read that fight but I never did. I think saying Magma is hotter than fire is easier to say than My magma can burn your fire. At worst I would expect My Magma is hot enough to burn fire.
Again, it's all up to the author on how much they want to accurately interpret and purposefully/ignorantly deviate from real life science.
I was talking specifically in One Piece. I think people took the whole Magma/Fire things waaaay to hard and started assigning ranking everywhere when it is simply about the interactions. Like Monet and Aokiji don't do the same things. And Baby 5 could turn into a staff that can be cut by Daz. Or Mochi lose it's stickiness to water but can still wack you and change shape.Or Poison and gass had overlapping properties. They are all different powers but sometimes they cross similar path or interact in different ways.
A real fruit that is a cheap version of another would Kilo fruit and ton fruit. But the magma-fire was simply an interaction like the poison thing(at least to me). It's superior because they have similar properties but Magma have one less weakness but it doesn't burn it becasue it is hotter.
But than again I believe Whitebeard wasn't trying to make Ace pirate king and it was just Akainu playing Squardo. So I have weird ways of reading the manga.
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Because Oda always mention those. I would but that Ace was at a disadvantage if they were in a lake or something but in the middle of land I don't buy it.
They were next to the coast, so Jimbei had all the water he needed.
Also, I actually can't believe you need convincing that water beats fire. Even children know this.
Purely coincidence
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Because Oda always mention those. I would but that Ace was at a disadvantage if they were in a lake or something but in the middle of land I don't buy it. We would have had one of the endless minions behind him mention how lucky Jimbei is that he is using water or else Ace wouldn't be so weak or some similar sentence.
True. There probably would have been a throwaway line like "Ace was able to fight Jinbe to a standstill even though his fire should be weak to water!" or Ace being lucky that his fight with Jinbe took place entirely on land.
To me it was a case just like the candle man blocking poison. I know the whole magma is hotter than fire is the way most people read that fight but I never did. I think saying Magma is hotter than fire is easier to say than My magma can burn your fire. At worst I would expect My Magma is hot enough to burn fire.
That can work but I think it's giving Oda too much of a benefit of the doubt for his arbitrary rationale behind Devil Fruit superiority as a whole.
I was talking specifically in One Piece. I think people took the whole Magma/Fire things waaaay to hard and started assigning ranking everywhere when it is simply about the interactions. Like Monet and Aokiji don't do the same things. And Baby 5 could turn into a staff that can be cut by Daz. Or Mochi lose it's stickiness to water but can still wack you and change shape.Or Poison and gass had overlapping properties. They are all different powers but sometimes they cross similar path or interact in different ways.
Snow can have different applications than ice, but I think Oda's creativity with Devil Fruit superiority is literally all-around superiority given how all of the other Devil Fruit dynamics work like with Akainu/Ace, Gladius/Mr. 5, Baby-5/Daz Bones, and Machvise/Ms. Valentine's Day. All of which were confirmed in an SBS column. They look different enough to imply they could be used for different purposes, but I don't think Oda cares about exploring that. So I don't see any use giving the benefit of the doubt towards Devil Fruit superiority not being a clear-cut definition. The closest we have seen to a functional difference between these Devil Fruits is Monet being able to create igloos/snow domes and transform into a monster.
A real fruit that is a cheap version of another would Kilo fruit and ton fruit. But the magma-fire was simply an interaction like the poison thing(at least to me). It's superior because they have similar properties but Magma have one less weakness but it doesn't burn it becasue it is hotter.
I want to agree with you, but I don't think Oda intended for it to only be a singular interaction but an entire scope of "your Devil Fruit will always suck compared to mine".
But than again I believe Whitebeard wasn't trying to make Ace pirate king and it was just Akainu playing Squardo. So I have weird ways of reading the manga.
I'm still trying to process what Whitebeard's intentions were with Ace. I favor that interpretation as well, but he also never actually denies it and shows disinterest in finding One Piece for himself.
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
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@Count:
I'm still trying to process what Whitebeard's intentions were with Ace. I favor that interpretation as well, but he also never actually denies it and shows disinterest in finding One Piece for himself.
I've re-read that part many times and came to the conclusion that Sengoku wanted to scare the masses to create credible justification in executing Ace. Ace was one of many many pirates that was imprisoned so his death had to be 'justified' because marines are 'good' and the best way to make the public agree that Ace requires immediate death as opposed to imprisonment is the threat of a second Pirate King.
Roger was feared greatly by the public and even brought on the great pirate era so it was an easy tactic to scare everyone. As for Whitebeard, I took his lack of denial to be meaning that it's redundant to disagree. Whitebeard would not treat one of his sons more specially than the others (particularly without their knowledge) and he believed his sons not to believe the story Sengoku was spinning.
At least that's how I interpreted it. It never made sense to me why WB would favour Ace for his lineage.
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Finally back from my long break from One Piece!
Amazing! Luffys bounty shot up drastically, but it suits him! This arc wasnt what I wanted it to be, but it fulfilled what it needed to do.
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Finally back from my long break from One Piece!
Amazing! Luffys bounty shot up drastically, but it suits him! This arc wasnt what I wanted it to be, but it fulfilled what it needed to do.
Same for me… The whole TS besides Zou wasn't good IN MY OPINION... But I still can't left and give Oda another chance at Wano
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I've re-read that part many times and came to the conclusion that Sengoku wanted to scare the masses to create credible justification in executing Ace. Ace was one of many many pirates that was imprisoned so his death had to be 'justified' because marines are 'good' and the best way to make the public agree that Ace requires immediate death as opposed to imprisonment is the threat of a second Pirate King.
Roger was feared greatly by the public and even brought on the great pirate era so it was an easy tactic to scare everyone. As for Whitebeard, I took his lack of denial to be meaning that it's redundant to disagree. Whitebeard would not treat one of his sons more specially than the others (particularly without their knowledge) and he believed his sons not to believe the story Sengoku was spinning.
At least that's how I interpreted it. It never made sense to me why WB would favour Ace for his lineage.
roger was feared by the marines, public were crying
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Same for me… The whole TS besides Zou wasn't good IN MY OPINION... But I still can't left and give Oda another chance at Wano
Yeah, not a fan of the big mom arc despite the potential. The only arc I have genuinely liked after the timeskip was Dressrosa. But Punk Hazard and Zou were both at least okay. All the rest of the post timeskip arcs I havent liked.
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The (3) suit could be a huge troll, something like tight pink G-string with little green elephants and a ball-freezing system plus a hologram of the bros telling him something warm and caring. :ninja:
On a more serious note, when did they have time to create it? I mean it´s safe to assume there was no motivation to create one before the wedding because they considered him to be less than trash.
Afterwards, they were beating up the army sent to invade their kingdom on snails, after which they went full gas to Cacao. Ok they probably did have some time there, but it´s still quite weird if you think about it.
Did a beat up Judge wake up and go: "Oh, lemme create a fitting raid suit real quick for my worthless son who I might not see again?"I think the troll suit would be the one they wouldn't have wasted time on. Also the Raid suits are clearly not one-of-a-kind since each of the super siblings has one so it's likely that one they gave to Sanji was just a backup unit for one of the others for when they needed to be replaced, and someone just painted a '3' on it. So the time it takes to paint a '3' on them is likely all they needed. Since they seem to be coded to Vinsmoke DNA they probably didn't even need to specially tailor it for Sanji anyway. It might be one of the non-customized ones which can be good or bad; the default mode might be embarrassingly lacking or its lack of the same kind of flair the others' have might end up looking better on Sanji.
@Count:
True. There probably would have been a throwaway line like "Ace was able to fight Jinbe to a standstill even though his fire should be weak to water!" or Ace being lucky that his fight with Jinbe took place entirely on land.
We don't really know how the fight went down but even if Ace wasn't 'weak' to water, Jimbei could still easily negate a great deal of Ace's attacks using water so it's probable that they went with fists rather than water and fire. They both have serious durability and I don't recall Jimbei's jinbe smoking so Ace's fire didn't seem to have done much to him. At the very least, Ace wouldn't have an offensive advantage to an opponent with water manipulation expertise. So that kind of puts Ace's raw physical prowess at a higher level if that fight forced him not to rely on the Mera Mera no Mi.
That can work but I think it's giving Oda too much of a benefit of the doubt for his arbitrary rationale behind Devil Fruit superiority as a whole.
Snow can have different applications than ice, but I think Oda's creativity with Devil Fruit superiority is literally all-around superiority given how all of the other Devil Fruit dynamics work like with Akainu/Ace, Gladius/Mr. 5, Baby-5/Daz Bones, and Machvise/Ms. Valentine's Day. All of which were confirmed in an SBS column. They look different enough to imply they could be used for different purposes, but I don't think Oda cares about exploring that. So I don't see any use giving the benefit of the doubt towards Devil Fruit superiority not being a clear-cut definition. The closest we have seen to a functional difference between these Devil Fruits is Monet being able to create igloos/snow domes and transform into a monster.
I remember having a discussion about this kind of thing on the forum I was on previously and it had pissed me off that Oda didn't take the opportunity to make Monet a Mythical Zoan since it turned out she was just a crappy copy of Aokiji. We got into the semantics about his DF being 'Cold-Cold' and hers being 'Snow-Snow' because 'Cold' is not a substance, so him turning into frost was a stupid expression of it when the only thing that would make sense was him becoming a cold, empty void that sucks away all heat. And for her to be able to make snow that compact and hard to penetrate was also kind of stupid since he's the one that specializes in creating solid ice walls. It just made no damn sense. Her being a Yuki-Onna or something would have been interesting but no, wasted opportunity.
Also Ace's fire never seemed to be any color other than red/orange which isn't even the hottest part of a candle flame so maybe that's how Oda rationalizes magma being hotter than fire. Unless Ace was going plasma fusion star fire, which is probably a different DF than his, at its peak I think magma would burn hotter, or at least more consistently; air would lose heat way faster than a substance like molten rock, so even if the fire was hotter, it would be a more fleeting sensation than being covered in
What also bothers me is the range some of these DFs have. Kuma's Paw launchers can send someone flying to entirely different continents without supervision. Law's body transplants can still function outside of his operating room despite the genetic incompatibility. Now Zeus can remain alive and sentient without being in anywhere near proximity to Big Mom. So weird. Not that I'm not ecstatic about it, I can't wait to see Nami sticking the Clima Tact into his back like a mop to act as a steering wheel (since he's so capricious she'll need to take total control and not let him wander after something easily distracting) and riding him like an airborne Waver, but I'm just not sure there aren't going to be drawbacks to Zeus being what he is instead of something she created herself.
BTW, is anyone here good at picture editing? I'd love to see a side-by-side comparison of this picture of Goku
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/ultradragonball/images/6/6c/DragonBallZMovie220.jpg/revision/latest/zoom-crop/width/240/height/240?cb=20120818074501and one of Nami on Zeus looking all badass.
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Maybe the Big Mom Vivre Card allows her powers to continue to function with Zeus. I feel like Nami having that in her possession will continue to be an important plot device
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Big Mom could never leave her country if her presence was required for the Homie army to function.
The only danger I could forsee for Zeus is being confronted directly with Big Mom again, but that won't happen for quite some time now. If at all.
And even if she dies, it doesn't mean that Zeus dies with her, Oda technically has the freedom to do whatever he wants based on other fruit powers. Law's fruit was already mentioned, and his power even requires him to die in order to use one of his techniques successfully. -
Maybe the Big Mom Vivre Card allows her powers to continue to function with Zeus. I feel like Nami having that in her possession will continue to be an important plot device
i don't think that she still holds the vivre card anymore,
while being imprisoned, they should have taken it in -
Congratz mate! Fcuking well done mate!
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@vlad:
i don't think that she still holds the vivre card anymore,
while being imprisoned, they should have taken it inLater we found out she tore/cut it in half and she was able to keep control of that big tree once more later on in the arc.
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Also, I actually can't believe you need convincing that water beats fire. Even children know this.
You know why you can extinguish fire with water? Because you're cooling down the surface that's on fire.
But what happens when you can't cool down the surface? Well, the fire can't be extinguished.
What happens with water when it reaches 100°C (212°F)? It evaporates.So, you have a constant, unlimited source of fire, lets say 1000°C. What do you think will happen?
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You know why you can extinguish fire with water? Because you're cooling down the surface that's on fire.
But what happens when you can't cool down the surface? Well, the fire can't be extinguished.
What happens with water when it reaches 100°C (212°F)? It evaporates.So, you have a constant, unlimited source of fire, lets say 1000°C. What do you think will happen?
Well, it did work on Prometheus who is a flying living ball of fire.
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Lol from the wiki
Is it any different than, say, Kaido as "The Strongest Creature in the World"?
Spoiler:
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Sanji in a power ranger suit! that's not going to happen, but I can already see Frank doing a Suuupeer transformation…
Speedo disappearing, blinding bright kintama shining and subtly without us noticing at first, his eyebrows also changed to the Vinsmoke 6 6 curl.Though the inner fanboy dreams of Franky incorporating at least some parts of the tech into Sanji's clothing giving him greater resistance to fire (so that he can burn hotter) maybe.
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Well, it did work on Prometheus who is a flying living ball of fire.
Yes, but he is a limited source of fire. There is a difference between awakened fire and a fire-logia.
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Why is Ace a topic? Lol let the guy rest.
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Sanji getting into the Raid Suit and using at as a full on power up seems super unlikely to me. Despite Luffy offering crew mates the Flame Flame fruit there was no way any of the Straw Hats were going to get it because of their established abilities and themes.
Sanji didn't learn how to fight with his hands or eyeballs after fighting with the Kamabaka Kingdom residents for 2 years. He didn't develop a way to fight as fast as a Fishman Underwater with his blue walk only to lose that ability 2 arcs later. He didn't develop his skywalk to later have a suit that could do it for him.
Sanji gets smashed through brick walls by Kurobi, gets his rib bones broken by Bon Clay, his shin fractured by Vergo, and then loses blood from a gun shot wound he barely even noticed. The suit would undoubtedly give him more protection from these things but Oda didn't establish how tough he is for 20ish years as a super(normal) human to give him fruit powers and Inspector Gadget gear.
The Raid Suit is in the Straw Hats hands and Sanji wants no part of it but you can bet Franky and Usopp will take notice. I don't think it was any secret that both Franky and Usopp were mentioned when the topic of using the Raid Suit came up. Sanji will be key in unlocking the thing but Franky and Usopp are going to dissect it, reverse engineer it and incorporate that stuff into their arsenal, maybe upgrade some of Nami's stuff too. That stuff fits them way more than it does Sanji.
Folks who read One Piece… Just better people. ¯\(ツ)/¯
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Sanji getting into the Raid Suit and using at as a full on power up seems super unlikely to me. Despite Luffy offering crew mates the Flame Flame fruit there was no way any of the Straw Hats were going to get it because of their established abilities and themes.
Sanji didn't learn how to fight with his hands or eyeballs after fighting with the Kamabaka Kingdom residents for 2 years. He didn't develop a way to fight as fast as a Fishman Underwater with his blue walk only to lose that ability 2 arcs later. He didn't develop his skywalk to later have a suit that could do it for him.
Sanji gets smashed through brick walls by Kurobi, gets his rib bones broken by Bon Clay, his shin fractured by Vergo, and then loses blood from a gun shot wound he barely even noticed. The suit would undoubtedly give him more protection from these things but Oda didn't establish how tough he is for 20ish years as a super(normal) human to give him fruit powers and Inspector Gadget gear.
The Raid Suit is in the Straw Hats hands and Sanji wants no part of it but you can bet Franky and Usopp will take notice. I don't think it was any secret that both Franky and Usopp were mentioned when the topic of using the Raid Suit came up. Sanji will be key in unlocking the thing but Franky and Usopp are going to dissect it, reverse engineer it and incorporate that stuff into their arsenal, maybe upgrade some of Nami's stuff too. That stuff fits them way more than it does Sanji.
It was emphasized in this chapter that Franky already has tech similar to the Germa with his lasers. Ussop as much as I don't see it it does make some sense because of the yellow theme but how will the tech or suit help him augment his sniping abilities and why can't Franky help him get all futuristic without the Germa gear that's meant to be tailor made for Sanji alone. Not to mention it's meant to work for Sanji and no one else, reverse engineering doesn't make sense to me here. Ussop is going to stay weak til like the end of the series, the suit is a bit overpowered for that to remain true. Sanji will reluctantly wear it under some extreme circumstance is what I think is the likelier outcome. His name on the wanted poster is now Vinsmoke, he doesn't like that name either but it's a part of him just like his birth right is Germa tech.
Year of Sanji, let's go!
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@Kaido:
Is it any different than, say, Kaido as "The Strongest Creature in the World"?
Maybe the difference between a character introduction infobox and a bias article full of alternative facts
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It was emphasized in this chapter that Franky already has tech similar to the Germa with his lasers. Ussop as much as I don't see it it does make some sense because of the yellow theme but how will the tech or suit help him augment his sniping abilities and why can't Franky help him get all futuristic without the Germa gear that's meant to be tailor made for Sanji alone. Not to mention it's meant to work for Sanji and no one else, reverse engineering doesn't make sense to me here. Ussop is going to stay weak til like the end of the series, the suit is a bit overpowered for that to remain true. Sanji will reluctantly wear it under some extreme circumstance is what I think is the likelier outcome. His name on the wanted poster is now Vinsmoke, he doesn't like that name either but it's a part of him just like his birth right is Germa tech.
We don't know if the thing shoots laser beams that was an assumption from Luffy and Chopper. The laser light show seemed to be exclusive to Ichiji, I'd imagine what ever they gave to Sanji would be exclusive to him.
Franky found the tech documents for weapons developed by Vegapunk that were deemed impossible at the time because of current technology. Over the course of two years he figured them out. Oda could easily write Sanji activating the suit by wearing it, spitting on it or offering a hair. Once unlocked there are a trillion ways Oda can go about Franky and Usopp unraveling it's secrets and reproducing them. Doesn't matter if DNA is some sort of requirement as it's already been established that Franky came across those types of Documents in Vegapunks lab. He said he wasn't interested but it doesn't mean he didn't gain some knowledge at the time. How it happens is no concern to me, just why it would.
And in no way do I mean for the Raid Suit to be utilized by Franky or Usopp in the same way the Vinesmokes use it. I don't expect them to wear it like a power ranger, just pull out the tech and incorporate the tools in their own weapons or body respectively.
Usopp is weakER physically than most of the crew but he isn't weak. I don't expect to see him wearing that thing and launching buildings like Zoro or Sanji but the Germa tech contains a lot of neat tricks. His accuracy when actually shooting something is incredible and has been for an extremely long time. I don't expect the suit to improve anything there aside from maybe upgrading his goggles. Usopp's abilities don't rely entirely on how accurate he can shoot something at someone, he has a ton of miscellaneous tools and weirdness that add to his bag of tricks. Some form of electrical doodads or poison capsules could go a long way to round out his arsenal and thats just me thinking about shallow surface material. Just look at all the weird stuff he did with dials in comparison to the Skypieans. I'm expecting his ammo or slingshots to be upgraded.
For Franky I feel like much of the same could be utilized though I really don't know how. The rocket boots get incorporated into Franky's feet? I guess then he, Sanji, Luffy and Robin can all fly together. Maybe General Franky gets it's own weapons instead of Franky having to comically leave the cockpit to do something. Maybe the Sunny itself gets some added utility?
The idea that someone in the crew would constantly wear the thing to be fully powered in a fight doesn't sit well with me because of the way they have been established over the decades. Well accept Daz Bones. He can have it and realize his dreams.
As for the Vinsmoke name on his poster I just chalk that up to Sanji's continued use of the monkey paw.
Sanji is that guy in pursuit of glory and he gets it but in a very different way than other characters for comic relief. He finally gets a bounty that contains his real picture coupled with an amount worth more than Zoro but at the cost of having his Vinsmoke name printed for the world to see. I'm sure like Duval, and "alive only" this new bounty baring the Vinsmoke name will have some story implications but I don't think the Raid Suit has any part of it.Folks who read One Piece… Just better people. ¯\(ツ)/¯
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It was emphasized in this chapter that Franky already has tech similar to the Germa with his lasers. Ussop as much as I don't see it it does make some sense because of the yellow theme but how will the tech or suit help him augment his sniping abilities and why can't Franky help him get all futuristic without the Germa gear that's meant to be tailor made for Sanji alone. Not to mention it's meant to work for Sanji and no one else, reverse engineering doesn't make sense to me here. Ussop is going to stay weak til like the end of the series, the suit is a bit overpowered for that to remain true. Sanji will reluctantly wear it under some extreme circumstance is what I think is the likelier outcome. His name on the wanted poster is now Vinsmoke, he doesn't like that name either but it's a part of him just like his birth right is Germa tech.
The Reid Suit firing laser beams is just the Luffy's and Chopper's wet dreams (that's a recurrent joke), but it probably does other stuff and that's why I don't see it overlapping with Franky's current abilities. However, I agree that it won't go to Franky, although he may have some interest in it.
Usopp may continue to be the weakest Strawhat member (as Oda once said), but that doesn't mean he'll stay weak until the end of the series. That's pretty counterintuitive considering he'll eventually have to win against strong enemies, like Van Auger of the Blackbeard Pirates, and even before that he may get some fights. The Reid Suit is not too overpowered (you have to consider the Vinsmokes are already pretty strong on their own), so it's a proper power up for Usopp to become able to help himself without breaking any balance inside the crew (if that even matters).
It's also worth noting that Usopp's fighting gimmick is not only shooting, but using many gadgets, like dials, pop greens, fake hammers, rubber bands, noises, eggs, lies, anything. The Reid Suit would be only one more gadget to his arsenal… one that complements the only area he's lacking (physical) and that would look pretty good with his super hero alter ego, Sogeking. And, of course, it's yellow.
Sanji is a Vinsmoke, so that's a part of his history, but I wouldn't say he should just adopt his family back into his lifestyle. One Piece is a story about freedom and also about finding family in people that are not your blood family, so it's really weird to insinuate he should just call himself Vinsmoke Sanji and wear a Reid Suit because of his blood relationships. If he ever does that, it must come from desire, not resignation.
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Maybe the difference between a character introduction infobox and a bias article full of alternative facts
Epithets are full of biases. Kaido's infobox made it clear that his title is based on what people say, not an official classification by the author himself.
Spoiler:
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Yes, but he is a limited source of fire. There is a difference between awakened fire and a fire-logia.
Do you really think Oda is thinking about this in terms more complicated than a pokemon battle?
Purely coincidence
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They gave him the raid suit of his dead mother and Sanji will be honoring her by using it!
This made me see Sanji as Shinji and Judge as Gendo.
"Sanji! Put on the f**ing suit!"
I need someone to make this meme reality. :ninja:
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Sanji did have his Shinji moments in WCI, lol.
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@Kaido:
Is it any different than, say, Kaido as "The Strongest Creature in the World"?
Yep, they'd call him Hundred beasts Kaido. If they're describing hm they may call him "The Strongest Creature in the World", if they want to play it that way, then They should also add "Son of Dragon" and "Grandson of Garp" XD. We have yet to see if he'll be called the 5th Emperor.
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What is the most interesting part of sanji's story is that his mother was the Naval hero of the marines, and also had some maybe early pacifistas models with her.
Like, oda keep pushing the boring story of judge and bros, but randomly mentiones that his mom name is sora from the comic strip, and just leaves it like that.
They had some viola-doflamingo like relation, enemies but ended up together and made kids. Someone has to elaborate on this, maybe when sanji meets some marines that talk about sora's legend?
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We don't know if the thing shoots laser beams that was an assumption from Luffy and Chopper. The laser light show seemed to be exclusive to Ichiji, I'd imagine what ever they gave to Sanji would be exclusive to him.
Franky found the tech documents for weapons developed by Vegapunk that were deemed impossible at the time because of current technology. Over the course of two years he figured them out. Oda could easily write Sanji activating the suit by wearing it, spitting on it or offering a hair. Once unlocked there are a trillion ways Oda can go about Franky and Usopp unraveling it's secrets and reproducing them. Doesn't matter if DNA is some sort of requirement as it's already been established that Franky came across those types of Documents in Vegapunks lab. He said he wasn't interested but it doesn't mean he didn't gain some knowledge at the time. How it happens is no concern to me, just why it would.
And in no way do I mean for the Raid Suit to be utilized by Franky or Usopp in the same way the Vinesmokes use it. I don't expect them to wear it like a power ranger, just pull out the tech and incorporate the tools in their own weapons or body respectively.
Usopp is weakER physically than most of the crew but he isn't weak. I don't expect to see him wearing that thing and launching buildings like Zoro or Sanji but the Germa tech contains a lot of neat tricks. His accuracy when actually shooting something is incredible and has been for an extremely long time. I don't expect the suit to improve anything there aside from maybe upgrading his goggles. Usopp's abilities don't rely entirely on how accurate he can shoot something at someone, he has a ton of miscellaneous tools and weirdness that add to his bag of tricks. Some form of electrical doodads or poison capsules could go a long way to round out his arsenal and thats just me thinking about shallow surface material. Just look at all the weird stuff he did with dials in comparison to the Skypieans. I'm expecting his ammo or slingshots to be upgraded.
For Franky I feel like much of the same could be utilized though I really don't know how. The rocket boots get incorporated into Franky's feet? I guess then he, Sanji, Luffy and Robin can all fly together. Maybe General Franky gets it's own weapons instead of Franky having to comically leave the cockpit to do something. Maybe the Sunny itself gets some added utility?
The idea that someone in the crew would constantly wear the thing to be fully powered in a fight doesn't sit well with me because of the way they have been established over the decades. Well accept Daz Bones. He can have it and realize his dreams.
As for the Vinsmoke name on his poster I just chalk that up to Sanji's continued use of the monkey paw.
Sanji is that guy in pursuit of glory and he gets it but in a very different way than other characters for comic relief. He finally gets a bounty that contains his real picture coupled with an amount worth more than Zoro but at the cost of having his Vinsmoke name printed for the world to see. I'm sure like Duval, and "alive only" this new bounty baring the Vinsmoke name will have some story implications but I don't think the Raid Suit has any part of it.All the points you've raised are sensible and I can imagine what you're describing but it just all sounds like a continuation of "Sanji won't receive the raid suit" and the people who championed this exact notion also raised very valid points, convincing too. Of course you'll have your Ussops and Frankys analysing it once they see what it is but at least just once in the story we will see Sanji wear it, not for a permanent overused upgrade. It has to happen. What happens after that is as you and ackward mentioned anyone's guess because the possibilities for it are quite open ended. But at some point, even if it's just the one time, Sanji will wear it. I don't have the imagination to say where and when this early on but it's pretty clear we will see this. It will just serve to amplify his existing skill set. Sanji isn't at a Yonkou commander level and to suggest he will bridge that gap in time for Wano is naive and I think he will have some crazy fight there that will force him to resort to the one thing he would never willingly do. But I'm definitely open to the possibilities you've brought up. Let's see.
Also for manga only readers have you guys seen the amazing Sanji animation in the latest anime episode. Amazing kick.
! Sanji with a cape…it suits him, if nothing else
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@Count:
True. There probably would have been a throwaway line like "Ace was able to fight Jinbe to a standstill even though his fire should be weak to water!" or Ace being lucky that his fight with Jinbe took place entirely on land.
Exactly what I mean. To be me this way a mean to tell us those characters are equals not "Damn what a lucky bastard that Jimbei is".
That can work but I think it's giving Oda too much of a benefit of the doubt for his arbitrary rationale behind Devil Fruit superiority as a whole.
Snow can have different applications than ice, but I think Oda's creativity with Devil Fruit superiority is literally all-around superiority given how all of the other Devil Fruit dynamics work like with Akainu/Ace, Gladius/Mr. 5, Baby-5/Daz Bones, and Machvise/Ms. Valentine's Day. All of which were confirmed in an SBS column. They look different enough to imply they could be used for different purposes, but I don't think Oda cares about exploring that. So I don't see any use giving the benefit of the doubt towards Devil Fruit superiority not being a clear-cut definition. The closest we have seen to a functional difference between these Devil Fruits is Monet being able to create igloos/snow domes and transform into a monster.
I would say Gladius/Mr. 5, Baby-5/Daz Bones and Monet/Aokiji are definitely distinct. To me there's a difference to my fruit is more versatile and there are simply different. I definetely see a difference between M5 using regular explosion and Gladius having to make things go to the point of rupture. both in visual in the application.
Machvise/Ms. Valentine's Day are definitely the epitome of laziness in that regard. Akainu/Ace is kind of merkier. In my mind I automatically made the association to earth extingishing fire but I can how that may be me reading to much into it.
I want to agree with you, but I don't think Oda intended for it to only be a singular interaction but an entire scope of "your Devil Fruit will always suck compared to mine".
I definitely believe so for the ton and kilo fruit. But fire/magma I am not as sure. Like I could see Ace being more flowy due to not be made of solid/liquid matter. To me it is more an Enel'a power being useless against Luffy than it is just a matter of stronger.
I'm still trying to process what Whitebeard's intentions were with Ace. I favor that interpretation as well, but he also never actually denies it and shows disinterest in finding One Piece for himself.
I have consistently said that Marine Ford is a trash arc were Oda re-used ideas that were popular before without understanding why they work and making poor work that hurted the characters for no good reasons(except Luffy, Luffy was great).
That would mean whitebeard that didn't give a damn about the title decide to raise a heir to it because he saw this potential in him and not his other sons and he was doing it against Ace's wishes.
Like I said I think MArineFord is the worst by far and 95% of it is garbage but I give Oda that shred of credit that it was just a ploy like he kind of implied when talking to Ace. But maybe I am wrong, maybe I still give Oda to much credit and the arc is actually 95.5% trash afterall Oda did think the best way to end Whitebeard life was talking about the One Piece.
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Do you really think Oda is thinking about this in terms more complicated than a pokemon battle?
Yes, just a little bit more complicated.
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Like I said I think MArineFord is the worst by far and 95% of it is garbage but I give Oda that shred of credit that it was just a ploy like he kind of implied when talking to Ace. But maybe I am wrong, maybe I still give Oda to much credit and the arc is actually 95.5% trash afterall Oda did think the best way to end Whitebeard life was talking about the One Piece.
Aw, you didn't like Whitebeard? I love his lil flashback. Makes me kwai.
Favorite thing aside from One Piece is movies! Updated favorite films: The Passion of Joan of Arc / Alien / It's a Wonderful Life / Casablanca / One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest / The Apartment / Nights of Cabiria / Dr. Strangelove / All About Eve / Amadeus / Man Who Shot Liberty Valance
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Aw, you didn't like Whitebeard? I love his lil flashback. Makes me kwai.
If you are asking do I like Whitebeard than yes he is my favorite character. If you are asking if I like what Oda did with him in the war I wasn't really a fan especially how Oda ended him on a "One Piece exist" moment.
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I just always get emotional during the little flashback where he's a young upstart, day dreaming about one day having a family - knowing that he fully accomplished said goal.
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I just always get emotional during the little flashback where he's a young upstart, day dreaming about one day having a family - knowing that he fully accomplished said goal.
That really gets to me too, loved what Whitebeard stood for.
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If you are asking do I like Whitebeard than yes he is my favorite character. If you are asking if I like what Oda did with him in the war I wasn't really a fan especially how Oda ended him on a "One Piece exist" moment.
How come? I thought it was fitting considering he was considered as "the man closest to One Piece" and how his era was coming to an end.
Spoiler:
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If you are asking do I like Whitebeard than yes he is my favorite character. If you are asking if I like what Oda did with him in the war I wasn't really a fan especially how Oda ended him on a "One Piece exist" moment.
I love that moment since I see it as a parallel to Roger's death. When Rayleigh was telling the Strawhats about Roger on Shabody, he said something along the lines of "They wanted to execute him in the weakest of all the seas to send a message, but he turned his last words from a dying flame into a phoenix that enveloped the earth!" Isn't it ironic that they wanted to execute Roger to send a message to pirates, yet his last words are what started the great age of piracy?
It's the same with Whitebeard. They went as far as to broadcast the battle with him because they thought that his death would discourage pirates, but instead his last moments did the opposite and ushered in the age of the worst generation. Shit is poetic almost.
