Well I did make a long post explaining how the lack of hints is not even remotely the problem here.
But c'mon, seemingly ruling out of the equation a side character like Wadatsumi and then bringing him up to resolve it isn't certainly the most pleasing storytelling device, to say the least. Especially considering this looked a little more substantial than the usual weekly cliffhanger.
It's totally reasonable to be disappointed by it.
Chapter 901: Even If You Die, Don't Die!!!
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Well I did make a long post explaining how the lack of hints is not even remotely the problem here.
But c'mon, seemingly ruling out of the equation a side character like Wadatsumi and then bringing him up to resolve it isn't certainly the most pleasing storytelling device, to say the least. Especially considering this looked a little more substantial than the usual weekly cliffhanger.
It's totally reasonable to be disappointed by it.No one said you couldn't be disappointed by it. I myself thought the ship would take a bit more damage. Only thing I particularly took issue from what I've read this past week is the idea that you couldn't theorize literally any part of this happening, the insistence from some that the Sun Pirates couldn't do anything further.
Plenty of people got the general idea of it right. Anyways, it is what it is.
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Oh ok, I was under the impression that you and Kage were trying to make it look like this was some sort of good writing but I was wrong.
I agree that the Sun Pirates doing something was predictable (I didn't even consider it btw lol), though Wadatsumi coming back after the x x eyes and doing that dumb switch in particular wasn't and in fact nobody did predict that (him doing all the work was dumb, but in the end it turned out to be dumb for real), but like I said it being predictable or not doesn't make any difference anyway. -
Oh ok, I was under the impression that you and Kage were trying to make it look like this was some sort of good writing but I was wrong.
I agree that the Sun Pirates doing something was predictable (I didn't even consider it btw lol), though Wadatsumi coming back after the x x eyes and doing that dumb switch in particular wasn't and in fact nobody did predict that (him doing all the work was dumb, but in the end it turned out to be dumb for real), but like I said it being predictable or not doesn't make any difference anyway.Yea, no one predicted the switch, but like I said, there were people who figured it'd be Wadatsumi who'd do something here, and some even predicted he'd swallow them. He obviously has the size for it, so in hindsight it realistically could've only been him to begin with if you were going to predict the Sun Pirates being the ones to save the day to begin with. His X.X eyes, don't know why that's an issue, dude was literally talking in that same panel, so it's not as if he was knocked out.
But yea, if people think it's dumb regardless, that's totally fine. At the very least, I certainly agree that doesn't have the finesse of other answers to cliffhangers, such as Jinbe's solution to that tidal wave from earlier in the arc.
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Yea, no one predicted the switch, but like I said, there were people who figured it'd be Wadatsumi who'd do something here, and some even predicted he'd swallow them. He obviously has the size for it, so in hindsight it realistically could've only been him to begin with if you were going to predict the Sun Pirates being the ones to save the day to begin with.
Props to whoever did that then, that's not a scenario you can predict unless you don't consider how good or bad it will look, but it ended up being the right way of looking at things. Most people myself included were focusing too much on how the resolution could stand up to the expectations 900 had set up.
His X.X eyes, don't know why that's an issue, dude was literally talking in that same panel, so it's not as if he was knocked out.
I thought the x x eyes and the panel of him escaping were enough to consider him out of the picture and I was wrong, but it still looks a bit off when I think about it.
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You could predict Wadatsumi was going to eat Sunny.
But there's no way you could have predicted that he was going to switch it with SPS a second before cannonballs hit it and explode, making it seem like Sunny is burning. Not without considering Oda has borrowed from some of the worst pages of Bleach, Naruto or FT. So nobody considered something like that because nobody expected such lazy writing.
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I agree, Wadatsumi eating the Sunny wouldn't have been that bad if there was a better explaination for the wrecked ship and the flag.
Actually I think it could have been predicted even considering a well written solution, as long as it wasn't the MAIN reason why the Strawhats got out of that situation. -
@uniaka:
The only problem with the ship was that they sacrificed the legendary ship of Fisher tiger for nothing. It didn't buy them even seconds, it was the most useless sacrifice ever.
It's like Oda wanted to wreck the fishman ship so they get stuck on totland.
How exactly does a fishmen get stuck on a ocean?
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I would be fine if Wadatsumi pulled them down and the cannonballs hit a boat behind them. It's the same cheap cliffhanger and without the convoluted way to achieve it.
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It just occured to me that Luffy hasn't actually shared any sort of prolonged screen time with BM in this arc at all. They only spoke over Den den mushi and the only physical interaction they had, Oda cut away and showed us Luffy already seemingly defeated.
I still think its absurd that the Sunny managed to survive an attack from a Yonkou. Especially if you consider that guys like Zoro can destroy a ship with a single slash and he is nowhere near a Yonkou's level, strength wise.
I am thinking that BM might end up being curbstomped by Luffy, after he beats Kaido and she'll basically be a way of showing us how strong Luffy will be in the future.
However I'm still not satisfied that the arc is seemingly ending without Luffy and BM ever having an actual interaction with each other.
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I would be fine if Wadatsumi pulled them down and the cannonballs hit a boat behind them. It's the same cheap cliffhanger and without the convoluted way to achieve it.
Why would the Chanter miss?
What purpose would that serve without fooling the enemy first?
That wouldn't buy time at all ,Oven would attack Watatsumi immediately.I agree, Wadatsumi eating the Sunny wouldn't have been that bad if there was a better explaination for the wrecked ship and the flag.
Actually I think it could have been predicted even considering a well written solution, as long as it wasn't the MAIN reason why the Strawhats got out of that situation.Why? Is it because it was Watatsumi was doing the action?
Fishmen and Watatsumi should be main reason for strawhats to escape since they can influence the battleground better than anyone else there .
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I would be fine if Wadatsumi pulled them down and the cannonballs hit a boat behind them. It's the same cheap cliffhanger and without the convoluted way to achieve it.
Or if this all happened when BM returned and she conjured a tsunami again. Wadatsumi eats Sunny in this case as well, and the flag also breaks and is seen floating at the end of the chapter.
Nobody has noticed fishmen were involved, Jinbe doesn't need to stay behind. Or they were noticed and Jinbe stays behind anyway.
The problem is, a second tsunami would be too repetitive after the first one. So maybe lose the first one and have Jinbe do his surfing thing this time. But then BM brings another wave and Oven heats it or something like that and the scene cuts to a floating flag.
But in that case the cake wouldn't have done much to slow BM, so that's not good either. It's a tricky thing to try to level everything in place. Which is why I fear another big arc like this one and Dressrosa. Really need to trim the fat. Maybe even some muscle tissue as well.
The way this ended, SH are running with their tail between their legs, leaving Sun Pirates and Germa to their own devices. Don't really like that. Nobody should.
Hoping some stuff still happens before the arc is wrapped up.
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Why? Is it because it was Watatsumi was doing the action?
Fishmen and Watatsumi should be main reason for strawhats to escape since they can influence the battleground better than anyone else there .
Yes, because it was him doing the action:
"seemingly ruling out of the equation a side character like Wadatsumi and then bringing him up to resolve it isn't certainly the most pleasing storytelling device, to say the least. Especially considering this looked a little more substantial than the usual weekly cliffhanger.
It's totally reasonable to be disappointed by it."I'm not talking about what could make sense in the story or whatnot, I'm talking about the quality of the storytelling.
Fishmen would have been fine (they still should've done something better than the switcheroo though) but Wadatsumi doing all the work it's just weak.
Actually, tecnically the fishmen were part of the resolution since they still changed the currents, but they weren't the answer to the main question: "how did the Sunny survive/avoid that blast?"
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Yes, because it was him doing the action:
"seemingly ruling out of the equation a side character like Wadatsumi and then bringing him up to resolve it isn't certainly the most pleasing storytelling device, to say the least. Especially considering this looked a little more substantial than the usual weekly cliffhanger.
It's totally reasonable to be disappointed by it."I'm not talking about what could make sense in the story or whatnot, I'm talking about the quality of the storytelling.
Fishmen would have been fine (they still should've done something better than the switcheroo though) but Wadatsumi doing all the work it's just weak.
Actually, tecnically the fishmen were part of the resolution since they still changed the currents, but they weren't part of he main answer: "how did the Sunny survive/avoid that blast?", thus the disappointment.
It seems like it's just nitpicking at that point to criticize Wadatsumi, the largest out of all of them, for being the one who "did all the work". Of course he'd be the most effective at pulling the Sunny down. It's not even necessarily accurate if you wanna be technical about it, since Aladine ordered him to do it anyways.
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We didn't know shit about the Mobydick yet I really got the feels when Whitebeard gave his farewell to his ship.
We saw tons of adventure of the Fishman Pirates on their ship and Oda just destroyed it just to have a ship burning in last week's cliffhanger…..It didn't even protected the sunny in any way and didn't fool the enemy for more than 2 seconds. And none of the fishman seem to give a fuck. -
Yes, because it was him doing the action:
"seemingly ruling out of the equation a side character like Wadatsumi and then bringing him up to resolve it isn't certainly the most pleasing storytelling device, to say the least. Especially considering this looked a little more substantial than the usual weekly cliffhanger.
It's totally reasonable to be disappointed by it."I'm not talking about what could makesense in the story or whatnot, I'm talking about the quality of the storytelling.
Fishmen would have been fine (they still should've done something better than the switcheroo though) but Wadatsumi doing all the work it's just weak.
Actually, tecnically the fishmen were part of the resolution since they still changed the currents, but they weren't part of he main answer: "how did the Sunny survive/avoid that blast?", thus the disappointment.
But he was not out equation ,we have nothing that showed that he was , when someone throws boiling water on top you the first reaction would be screaming and then finding way to cool off , heck Watatsumi has prior experience of being "cooked" nevermind that he can reach low temperture water with ease ,we see him diving in chapter 900 .
"Wadatsumi doing all the work it's just weak."
Why? He wanted to repay Jinbey for the trouble he caused in fishmen island and he is the only being there that can manhandle ships with relative ease ,good portion side characters in One piece have played much grander rule that is usual in other stories we have mutiple examples of this in One Piece, having focus on Wadatsumi shoudn't be weird or out of place.
But it seems that Wadatsumi is too much side character to actually be acting force in the story .What makes sense in story should be important to you since it ties with quality of storytelling.
What a person finds to be a good storytelling method is subjective but for me atleast as long author uses what is present in story be either a place or a character or a thing without breaking rules establish before he is doing a good job and if he (author) can do it in way that we can't preditc the outcome even better ,that happened with this chapter atleast for me ,i thought that Wadatsumi would be a key part of strawhats escape but not the how, i was pleasantly suprised and glad that he played bigger role.I'm glad we got more out of Wadatsumi and i hope in future we get more, he can tag team with Surume i don't know when or how but i hope it happens.
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We didn't know shit about the Mobydick yet I really got the feels when Whitebeard gave his farewell to his ship.
We saw tons of adventure of the Fishman Pirates on their ship and Oda just destroyed it just to have a ship burning in last week's cliffhanger…..It didn't even protected the sunny in any way and didn't fool the enemy for more than 2 seconds. And none of the fishman seem to give a fuck.They do seem to be ready to fight to the death, so I guess I can understand why they burned the boat, but yes, it does seem a bit off.
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We didn't know shit about the Mobydick yet I really got the feels when Whitebeard gave his farewell to his ship.
We saw tons of adventure of the Fishman Pirates on their ship and Oda just destroyed it just to have a ship burning in last week's cliffhanger…..It didn't even protected the sunny in any way and didn't fool the enemy for more than 2 seconds. And none of the fishman seem to give a fuck.That's quite harsh.
They already said they are prepared to die ,basically sink with the ship ,not mention they have Fisher Tiger mark on their flesh.
Those adventures focus more on mark than their ship.
And the ship sacrifice allow the Sunny to gain some distance ,it was gamble they had zero prep time. -
It seems like it's just nitpicking at that point to criticize Wadatsumi, the largest out of all of them, for being the one who "did all the work". Of course he'd be the most effective at pulling the Sunny down. It's not even necessarily accurate if you wanna be technical about it, since Aladine ordered him to do it anyways.
You're right, so tecnically he didn't do all that by himself.
But he's still the one who practically saved the Sunny and the reason why Aladdin's plan existed to begin with. Even if Wadatsumi technically didn't do all the work, Aladdin is still not the main focus. That's the reason why nobody reading the chapter was never ever under the impression that Aladdin was the real answer to the cliffhanger. I can't believe that reading the chapter you were like: "Oh so that was it! It was Aladdin all along!"
That's what matters, again, we are talking about the writing.But we can say that Aladdin was as involved as Wada if you prefer, that doesn't change a thing about how underwhelming and rushed the solution was.
Even if it was Aladdin the one to somehow save the Sunny there still should've been a really clever idea or at least an emotional moment that should've been directly involved with the question: "how did the Sunny survive the blast?".
"Switch and put into mouth" is not a very good answer, it's not very good writing. "Put into mouth" can work but must be paired with something better than "Switch".And who cares if the reason why Wadatsumi was the one to do it is bacause he's the largest? That doesn't make the solution any better.
This probably looks like nitpicking because you guys are making me over elaborate something that should be very simple and very obvious:
Wadatsumi [and Aladdin yelling at him what he has to do, or even Aladdin doing half of the work if you like, whatever] as the answer to last panel of chapter 900, is weak.
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It looks like nitpicking because, well, I dunno… it is IMO.
You explained why you didn't like it. I get that, I see most of where you and others are coming from in general. I just felt that that particular part of your criticism, that you didn't like that Wadatsumi "did all the work", felt like nitpicking at that point.
As I said, if you were going to back the Sun Pirates as being the answer here, the most logical conclusion IMO would be Wadatsumi being their primary savior, regardless of whether or not there was a ship swap. I didn't say that he's the largest to try and convince you that the solution Oda chose was a good one, but rather to show you that of course he'd put the most work in regardless of how Oda ended up utilizing the Sun Pirates. He obviously has the strength for it, and is big to swallow the entire ship, so unsurprisingly he has the most flexibility in how Oda could've used him. Hence why all the theories involving the Sun Pirates pretty much all involved Wadatsumi doing something notable.
I don't know how to articulate it much better than that lol, it was just really amusing reading that part of your criticism.
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It looks like nitpicking because, well, I dunno… it is IMO.
You explained why you didn't like it. I get that, I see most of where you and others are coming from in general. I just felt that that particular part of your criticism, that you didn't like that Wadatsumi "did all the work", felt like nitpicking at that point.
As I said, if you were going to back the Sun Pirates as being the answer here, the most logical conclusion IMO would be Wadatsumi being their primary savior, regardless of whether or not there was a ship swap. I didn't say that he's the largest to try and convince you that the solution Oda chose was a good one, but rather to show you that of course he'd put the most work in regardless of how Oda ended up utilizing the Sun Pirates. He obviously has the strength for it, and is big to swallow the entire ship, so unsurprisingly he has the most flexibility in how Oda could've used him. Hence why all the theories involving the Sun Pirates pretty much all involved Wadatsumi doing something notable.
I don't know how to articulate it much better than that lol, it was just really amusing reading that part of your criticism.
Ok I see, you were specifically talking about this then:
"Fishmen would have been fine but Wadatsumi doing all the work it's just weak"I was thinking about how the scenario of the fishmen doing at least most of the work to save the Sunny could have paid off the expectations of the cliffhanger better than Wada doing all the work by himself, but I wasn't even considering the feasibility of the thing, my bad.
"Fishmen would have been fine since they seem more relevant than Wadatsumi, they're not as lame, and they have a stronger bond with Jinbe [even though I don't know what the hell they could have done practically to explain the cliffhanger] but Wadatsumi doing all the work by himself is just weak"
Related to that, I also noticed this nonsense I wrote in the same post: "I'm not talking about what could make sense in the story or whatnot, I'm talking about the quality of the storytelling".
Obviously the quality of the storytelling is also determined by how much things make sense in the story. But whatever, now you get the mistake I made in that statement.But he was not out equation ,we have nothing that showed that he was , when someone throws boiling water on top you the first reaction would be screaming and then finding way to cool off , heck Watatsumi has prior experience of being "cooked" nevermind that he can reach low temperture water with ease ,we see him diving in chapter 900 .
"Wadatsumi doing all the work it's just weak."
Why? He wanted to repay Jinbey for the trouble he caused in fishmen island and he is the only being there that can manhandle ships with relative ease ,good portion side characters in One piece have played much grander rule that is usual in other stories we have mutiple examples of this in One Piece, having focus on Wadatsumi shoudn't be weird or out of place.
But it seems that Wadatsumi is too much side character to actually be acting force in the story .What makes sense in story should be important to you since it ties with quality of storytelling.
What a person finds to be a good storytelling method is subjective but for me atleast as long author uses what is present in story be either a place or a character or a thing without breaking rules establish before he is doing a good job and if he (author) can do it in way that we can't preditc the outcome even better ,that happened with this chapter atleast for me ,i thought that Wadatsumi would be a key part of strawhats escape but not the how, i was pleasantly suprised and glad that he played bigger role.I'm glad we got more out of Wadatsumi and i hope in future we get more, he can tag team with Surume i don't know when or how but i hope it happens.
I didn't say that he's too much a side character to be an active force in the story, just that he doesn't work well as the main solution to this particular cliffhanger.
A side character of the likes of Wadatsumi resolving the super hyping cliffhanger of chapter 900 by redeeming himself because of reason and by pulling off this horribly fuzzy and convulted switch plan and sacrificing a ship we should care about but we actually don't is not good writing, in this or in any other story.I'm sorry if this sounds rude but if you think that good or bad writing is subjective then there's no point in discussing this.
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I'm actually more hyped for the next chapter than I was for this one.
Really curious which road Oda decides to take.
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I'm actually more hyped for the next chapter than I was for this one.
Really curious which road Oda decides to take.
"You will be suprised"
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Robin's bounty was higher than Zoro's when she joined, and it stayed that way through Enies Lobby.
You’re right but Robin didn’t officially join until after being freed, and by that point Zoro’s bounty was higher already. That’s my point, I could be wrong, but I think it fits nicely into the narrative.
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Im not sleeping till i get to read this next chapter… let's hope its not going to be like 6am before jamini posts it
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Doffys former bounty was 340mil and chinjaos 500mil was from when he was young before garp flattend his head, so 500mil was ok at the time, the fact that doffy or crocodile were stronger that their bounty would suggest does not matter, is not like the marines bounty office keeps track of them. And if you "consider the track record" as you put it he should get a bounty higher than kataruri's.
track record.
beats Arlong 20mil bounty gets 30mil bounty
beats Crocodile former 81mil gets 100mil
gets 300mil for EL
gets 400 mil for War
Beats Doffy former 340mil gets 500mil.Hmmm "track record" may not have been the right word for it, what I meant:
30 -> 100 -> 300 -> 400 ->500. Even Sabo is still at 600m, maybe after dressrosa his bounty increased a little. There was a bounty thread. If we can find it and continue there.
Ps: Former bounties don't give these guys justice, even luffy's bounties after beating them donesn't give them justice, considering caribou and the likes.
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Hmmm "track record" may not have been the right word for it, what I meant:
30 -> 100 -> 300 -> 400 ->500. Even Sabo is still at 600m, maybe after dressrosa his bounty increased a little. There was a bounty thread. If we can find it and continue there.
Ps: Former bounties don't give these guys justice, even luffy's bounties after beating them donesn't give them justice, considering caribou and the likes.
Even if the bounties don't do them justice they scan still be use as measure to raise the bounties,and there is no way luffy's bounty does not surpasses Katakuris wich is what you were saying.
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Gerd's axe is sweet.
Casual Moscato making an appearance. Oda just gave himself another tool to keep characters alive.
I think switching the ships would have worked even better, if we had seen the Fishmen struggling to remain in the boiling water, instead of Oven using his attack again. Or both. Really, seen Wadatsumi getting burnt as he swam up the previous chapter was the only thing missing, even if the answer becomes a bit more obvious. But I am sure glad that the solution was less psychedelic than proposed.
Praline teasing Oven was funny.
I liked how Jimbe changed from "even if it cost me my life" to "I will do it, and come back".
Yes, Morgans, now you just got to chase Luffy for the biggest scoop.