@.access:
I suggest you keep reading the thread
I did it and the claim that the cake did nothing is utter bullshit.
@.access:
I suggest you keep reading the thread
I did it and the claim that the cake did nothing is utter bullshit.
I know the big controversy in this chapter is the way the Strawhats managed to escape the Chanter's attack, but I'm honestly not that upset about it, it was a pretty creative and unpredictable way to resolve things, which is clearly seen by the lack of accurate predictions. That being said, I feel like there should have been some consequence to it instead of simply resolving it without any story impact. Hell, even the flag was back by the end of the chapter (A mistake by Oda, I'd imagine).
The worst part about the chapter was the ending. That was super lame. I mean come on Oda, no one reads One Piece to figure out if Luffy becomes Pirate King, we read it to find out how he becomes Pirate King.
Another interesting thing to note is that Sanji was noticeably absent in the entire chapter. I wonder what he could be up to?
The ship always had two flags… they lost one.
This was a controversial chapter to some but I thought it was pretty good as a whole
The switch was kind of a stretch but made enough sense that I can't call it Asspull. The fact that the Fishman Pirates ship got destroyed seems to be getting ignored here but that it happened to the ship fish tiger built is not small potatoes to me even if we did not get much time to see it.
We got a good amount of focus for the fishman and Jinbe before we get the shocking relegation Luffy is Letting Jinbe join back up in Wano. Also Stussy and Morgans lurk in the background menacingly. With the germa 66 still u
I did it and the claim that the cake did nothing is utter bullshit.
If you did then you know what I meant by it and wouldn't be asking me that question.
Why is big mom pirates using a marineford force, something way bigger than a buster call, just to kill 10 pirates and destroy 1 ship? Since when n is this the way to deal with such a threat, think about how the police treat a group of robbers running by car. This perfectly fits the saying "using a cannon to kill a fly".
They talked about that in Chapter 894. By this point the Straw Hats have pulled so much on them that they don't want to take any chances. For once the Straw Hats aren't being underestimated
sigh
It's better now that i've read it, but it's still absolute bullshit.
What a cheap resolution, strange considering Oda nailed lesser cliffhangers this same arc. This could've been the perfect ending for the arc but nope, more running away from Big Mom.
Oh well, at least the fishmen messing with the currents and Jinbe staying behind make up for that missed opportunity and manage to work very well in the big picture. These are the kind of clever ideas we expected after that big set up from last chapter.
Also good that Vito is aknowledging that Germa is in the shit. Makes me think that Oda actually has a logic resolution planned for them.
Big Mom already on the chase is a bit underwhelming, and I expected Perospero to face the consequences of his lie, it's sad to see plot threads fade into nothing.
Forgot there were 2 flags.
Oh well, then no biggie.
The cliffhanger would have been even less convincing if I'd remembered that 2 weeks ago.
Oh no I forgot that too, I was just thinking how cool it'd be if Jinbe appears in Wano with the flag :(
@Kaido:
They talked about that in Chapter 894. By this point the Straw Hats have pulled so much on them that they don't want to take any chances. For once the Straw Hats aren't being underestimated
Not taking a chance by giving them chances, an amazing plan!
Using to. Much force is worse than using to little force. That is why the cannon to fly saying exists. Dont you see how is so much easier to escape with so many people concentrated in one place, and dont you see how their effectivity declines drastically. Also any area attacks, like the ones done by the vinsmoke and the fishmen, are way more effwctive in this situation.
Not taking a chance by giving them chances, an amazing plan!
Using to. Much force is worse than using to little force. That is why the cannon to fly saying exists. Dont you see how is so much easier to escape with so many people concentrated in one place, and dont you see how their effectivity declines drastically. Also any area attacks, like the ones done by the vinsmoke and the fishmen, are way more effwctive in this situation.
Where does BMP gave them chances ?
The ones giving Strawhats chances to escape are the Fishmen and Germa, how does smaller team would benefit BMP in any shape or form when they are against army and foes that control water currents and sink ships with ease?
Not taking a chance by giving them chances, an amazing plan!
Using to. Much force is worse than using to little force. That is why the cannon to fly saying exists. Dont you see how is so much easier to escape with so many people concentrated in one place, and dont you see how their effectivity declines drastically. Also any area attacks, like the ones done by the vinsmoke and the fishmen, are way more effwctive in this situation.
It's actually worked pretty well for the BMPs. They've constantly kept pace with the Straw Hats, unlike the cannon in your example. Sending fewer soldiers wouldn't really have helped against the Sun Pirates or Germa especially since the BMPs can also do area attacks.
Think about the Enraged Army. They drastically outnumbered Luffy and Nami but it didn't affect them negatively
Where is sanji? (edit: he appear at page 8)
What means even if you die, don't die?
It's kind of like when they say, "If you die, I swear I'll kill you." Or like when Luffy told Masira, "You look more like a monkey than a real monkey." It's either supposed to be really funny, or really encouraging.
So one of my guesses was right, the ship did get pulled under the water by the Sun Pirates, but it wasn't even partially damaged on the top as I had believed, they instead pulled a switcheroo which I didn't expect, and that's quite a sacrifice, the last bit of memorabilia from Fisher Tiger's legacy, but I'm glad they're so on board with Jimbei's ambition that they're looking to him as the new Fisher Tiger, and Luffy as the savior of Fishman Island.
A little disappointed Jimbei's delaying his journey alongside them yet again but after this there should no longer be any excuse.
Why is Big Mom wide awake now, fat again, and still chasing them? What was the point of that cake if she's not incapacitated? Surely the Sun Pirates and Jimbei can't do a thing to stop her pursuit of the Sunny anymore. Just her crew by themselves is one thing, but she's back in her, presumably, prime, and even at her thinnest and on a singleminded rampage, she was able to brush Jimbei aside like dust with a broom. Unless the Germa aren't as badly hurt as was seemingly the case, what the hell are any of them going to do? The Straw Hats buggering off and leaving both Bege and the Germa to potentially still be slaughtered or captured is not something I would expect of them. This isn't quite the cliffhanger as the last chapter but it's ten times as awkward.
Also I like Morgans now. And he's got a ship carried by flying birds! Love it. I didn't think we'd see that in reality, or at least not this soon, but how cool that he's got something to ride that fits his motif. Can't tell if they're normal-sized birds or the Torino Kingdom giant ones Chopper was hanging out with but that's still cool, I think I hypothesized such an airborne ship in one of the threads recently but it was only half-serious. How neat that Oda had that in mind all along.
The BMP managed to checkmate the SH four times in the last four chapters. Luffy and his crew are only alive because third parties keep appearing and saving their asses, I wouldn't say the BMP are really handling this badly - it's just they don't have the plot on their side.
@.access:
The BMP managed to checkmate the SH four times in the last four chapters. Luffy and his crew are only alive because third parties keep appearing and saving their asses, I wouldn't say the BMP are really handling this badly - it's just they don't have the plot on their side.
They are also MASSIVE idiots. Poorly structured, overconfident, unprepared for various contingencies, volatile personalities and regard for others even within their family; most of what happened, they really brought on themselves.
Regarding the solution to the cliffhanger, I've seen the criticism pop up a few times that the Fishmen shouldn't have been able to come back because of Oven heating the water, or more specifically that Oven is a moron who stopped heating the water at a critical moment because blah blah blah plot armour. But upon reflection Oda's given us all the info we need to patch over that plot hole.
Y'all remember when Oven attacked the Nostra Castello? Superheating the ocean was really bad for the ship's paddles and was close to destroying them completely? Remember a few weeks back when the Sunny was cornered by the fleet of Tarte ships that circled round Cacao Island, and it was said they'd moved faster than expected because they were paddle ships? That's how it all comes together. Oven can't keep the ocean heated for very long or he risks disabling or destroying a lot of his own ships. And that's how the Fishmen get their opening to return.
I just think Oven stopped heating the sea once he unleashed his torpedoes attack. A tad too vague for my liking, but a reasonable option
@Kaido:
I just think Oven stopped heating the sea once he unleashed his torpedoes attack. A tad too vague for my liking, but a reasonable option
If Oven kept it up he'd have scuttled all the BMP ships too. Also would melt the candy slug BM is riding. Practicality has to come into play at some point too.
I can't see how the Germa possibly get out of this. Their entire kingdom is SURROUNDED by enemy forces, and I would bet my last dollar that Judge is zero match for a sweet commander. The BMP wouldn't destroy the kingdom itself (on account of wanting their technology), but there's nothing stopping them to wipe out their current leadership.
Y'all remember when Oven attacked the Nostra Castello? Superheating the ocean was really bad for the ship's paddles and was close to destroying them completely? Remember a few weeks back when the Sunny was cornered by the fleet of Tarte ships that circled round Cacao Island, and it was said they'd moved faster than expected because they were paddle ships? That's how it all comes together. Oven can't keep the ocean heated for very long or he risks disabling or destroying a lot of his own ships. And that's how the Fishmen get their opening to return.
The discussion kinda steamrolled past this little piece of math, but it's really good. Thanks for pointing that out. In 900, Oven delivered more of a "punch" to the fishmen than a sustained AOE attack.
Oh no I forgot that too, I was just thinking how cool it'd be if Jinbe appears in Wano with the flag :(
That would be the only scenario that justifies this further Jinbei Blueballing. It was really powerful seeing someone as powerful as him submit to Luffy as captain! Loved that scene.
Bmp are dealing with this situation horribly. Dont confuse being almost able to achieve their goal with handling well. I can also check 4 times a opponent in chess, not be able to checkmate it because of outside factors and that doesnt make me handling the game well.
The fact that the outside factors arent in fact outside factors and are things that they should be handling, but allowed to interfere makes everything even worse.
Do you know what is the other thing that is being handled horrible and will come back to bite bmp? Caesar Clown. Is amazing how they are against so little people and they were able to forget about one the culprits. He could be right now in whole cake island taking a sunbath.
Checkmate is closing the deal, the only thing they did was a check.
Oda is playing with BMP niglegence-incompetence vs their power. Some chapters go with power some other with total incompetence, the incompetence is winning big time and will obviously win in the end.
They had no idea the Sun Pirates were there until this battle and they received seeming confirmation that Germa was taken care of.
Don't worry about Caesar though. Unlike Germa he doesn't even have a grudging respect for the Straw Hats. He's almost definitely long gone by now.
@Kaido:
It's actually worked pretty well for the BMPs. They've constantly kept pace with the Straw Hats, unlike the cannon in your example. Sending fewer soldiers wouldn't really have helped against the Sun Pirates or Germa especially since the BMPs can also do area attacks.
Think about the Enraged Army. They drastically outnumbered Luffy and Nami but it didn't affect them negatively
Yes it did. Nami made a area attack and took a ton of soldiers. And the only reason they didnt just over run the army was because luffy wanted to stay in that place. There was no more effecient way to alert your enemy about your attack and take a lot of time to reach them if not by throwing a huge army at them like that.
Still the point of the enraged army is to make a point, even taking in consideration the downfalls. This is not the situation, specifically shown on how initially BMP first handdled it with short batallion specific to the group and intersecting forces through the way. The fact that at first Oda showed them working well at first and then just stop caring is what frustrating.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Kaido:
They had no idea the Sun Pirates were there until this battle and they received seeming confirmation that Germa was taken care of.
Don't worry about Caesar though. Unlike Germa he doesn't even have a grudging respect for the Straw Hats. He's almost definitely long gone by now.
They knew fishmen were fleeing the empire, from whole cake island and that they were with cahoots with Jinbei, that rigth now was with the strawhats. And they new about Praline and the sea slugs. Yep, just ignoring them was an amazing strategy.
So I guess Oda does celebrate april fools. Would be too much of a coincidence if not.
Why is Big Mom wide awake now, fat again, and still chasing them? What was the point of that cake if she's not incapacitated?
Sloppy writing indeed, unless something happens in the next chapters.
From what I understand the point of the cake was either to:
-Stop rampaging BM from chasing the Strawhats. Which only resulted in regular BM chasing the Strawhats. Althought they gained distance but it still doesn't justify all those chapters waiting for her to eat the cake.
or to
-Save Tottoland and show how a good guy Sanji is. Which is ok but should've been made more clear and possibly rewarding.
Yes it did. Nami made a area attack and took a ton of soldiers. And the only reason they didnt just over run the army was because luffy wanted to stay in that place. There was no more effecient way to alert your enemy about your attack and take a lot of time to reach them if not by throwing a huge army at them like that.
Still the point of the enraged army is to make a point, even taking in consideration the downfalls. This is not the situation, specifically shown on how initially BMP first handdled it with short batallion specific to the group and intersecting forces through the way. The fact that at first Oda showed them working well at first and then just stop caring is what frustrating.
Nami would have done the same thing no matter the size of the army. She did exactly that against Big Mom's platoon.
Also, remember when Oven took on Sanji and co. alone only to get pounded by Bege's ship? Numbers have been working quite well for the BMPs in comparison.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
They knew fishmen were fleeing the empire, from whole cake island and that they were with cahoots with Jinbei, that rigth now was with the strawhats. And they new about Praline and the sea slugs. Yep, just ignoring them was an amazing strategy.
So what would you have done in that situation? Go on a wild goose chase when you have three enemy crews that just tried to kill Big Mom on the run? And they had no idea what was happening to the sea slugs. Right now, I'm getting the sense that the Big Mom Pirates are more overextended and so hard pressed by the relentless survival of the Straw Hats that their focus has turned more singular, not that they're inherently incompetent at strategizing and working together.
You guys are forgetting things really fast. Chopper was about to kill himself by trying to throw Prometheus and Big Mom into the ocean (uselessly, of course) and the Sunny and the SHs were about to be fried when the cake was brought by Bege and saved them and all of Totto Land. So yeah, the cake was essential, although I also find it annoying that Big Mom did not stay KO'd for the rest of the arc. And if it wasn't for Sanji's amazingness as a cook, the cake would not have stopped Mama's rampage and she would have destroyed the whole country. Almost every single chapter since the cake started to be baked we were hammered by Chiffon, Pudding and the chefs on how awesome Sanji was and how it would have been absolutely impossible to make that cake in such a short time and with such quality.
@Kaido:
Nami would have done the same thing no matter the size of the army. She did exactly that against Big Mom's platoon.
Also, remember when Oven took on Sanji and co. alone only to get pounded by Bege's ship? Numbers have been working quite well for the BMPs in comparison.
So what would you have done in that situation? Go on a wild goose chase when you have three enemy crews that just tried to kill Big Mom on the run? And they had no idea what was happening to the sea slugs. Right now, I'm getting the sense that the Big Mom Pirates are more overextended and so hard pressed by the relentless survival of the Straw Hats that their focus has turned more singular, not that they're inherently incompetent at strategizing and working together.
Why are you focused at ehat nami would do. The point is that gallette caught nami, and of not for the huge army she would take down less people.
Also what happened with big mom wasnt the same. If you brlieve it is then is even worse., zeus and the other guys had already experiemced that but got totally blindsided a second time, and less than a day later.
Does it matter the origin of the incompetence? If is inhereted or situational, the fact is that the complete incompetence is present.
Also if you think is normal that an empire isnt able to correctly handle at the same time 3 small groups in their area, It perfectly shows why you think they are doing at least an acceptable job.
So you think is Ok to spend the amount of resources they are using in a ship and 10 people, but for some reason is really bad that they go for a goose chase after the fishmen pirates.
At this point of forces allocation and wasting it, catching the. Strawhats will not make the situation any better. After this(even with the strawhats captured) they have to rearrange the entire way they do things and make ahuge management of losses.
I did it and the claim that the cake did nothing is utter bullshit.
At least try to counter access timeco posts with arguments. Since they resume very well what a lot of us are implying when we say the cake did nothing.
This cake was the center of the plot during tenth of chapter, it was at the center of great achievement theories concerning Sanji (just reread Greg thread). So yeah saying it did achieve something essential when it did 0.001% of what was expected is what i call bullshit and being in denial.
The only thing i could agree is that the Mum chasing the Strawhat may not conclude the affair and there is still a hope but after having been deceived time and time again during this arc concerning Sanji, i prefer stay sceptical
Also as far as Nami clones go, that girl on the coverpage is the most Nami clone of ALL Nami clones
Like holy shit Oda, at least put in SOME effort.
Let's bring to this thread some of the interesting discussions from the spoiler's section.
Earlier this week, the (great) youtuber Mr. Morj posted a theory that Big Mom will go to Wano to search for revenge against the Strawhats. One of his arguments was that Big Mom and Kaidou was being developed as a pair (a pair, not allies) with many parallels, which is true, and all the New World saga till now have worked at the same time the conflict against both Yonkou, so then it would make sense for both to fall in the same big arc.
Regardless of whether or not Big Mom will head to Wano, this made me realize how much the plot structure of the New World is much more denser and interconnected than ever before in One Piece. In the old days, even if each arc planted the the seeds for the future, there was not as much intersection between plots as the developments of each arc since Fishmen Island. The untold consequence is obscuring our immediate apprehension of the meaning of each arc since we've developed an interpretative pattern that each island is an independent story arc (with the exception of W7/EL). However, if we take into account that arcs now are organized in much more complicated manner, some conflicts won't be fully resolved in the place we're expecting, but they'll splash to the following arc.
Why am I saying that? Well, considering that the conflict against Big Mom didn't end now despite Totland being pretty much over, that means that the full resolutions of some of the subplots will be moved to the next arc, be it Wano, Elbaf or wherever. For example, Jimbe is a character plot-wise associated to Big Mom, therefore it makes sense that his final resolution (becoming 120% a Strawhat) will happen after the defeat of the young lady. Sanji's personal conflict was also developed together with Big Mom, therefore it makes sense that his fanservice moment will happen in the final battle against her. On the side of the villains, Big Mom also needs to meditate upon her own contradictions and repressed traumas, so her resolution will come in her next appearence and defeat. Not only Mama, but Pudding too still have a lot to develop (last request, third eye, etc) and that can be concluded in the next arc.
It seems to me that a lot of people's dissatisfaction towards Totland is not related to the plot execution, but rather a problem of the ending being here without many of our expectations being resolved in the most euphoric fashion. So we're disappointed because we don't understand the meaning of some developments in this arc while maybe the meaning is just beyond the horizon.
Considering the last Nami Clone was Rebbeca way back in Dressrosa 4 years(?) ago, all this backlash seems unnecessary.
Considering the last Nami Clone was Rebbeca way back in Dressrosa 4 years(?) ago, all this backlash seems unnecessary.
I'd say Reiju and Pudding were too. Though I will say that Oda has definitely done pretty well with a lot of his female designs in the arc and Gerth's appearance was more surprising because we haven't been seeing too many stereotypical female appearances in the recent past.
Considering the last Nami Clone was Rebbeca way back in Dressrosa 4 years(?) ago, all this backlash seems unnecessary.
And she was already a "Nami Clone" when she was little. At that time nobody complained, is just shows how selective they are. Or it just clicks when the face is together with the slender body.
@.access:
People keep saying Sanji's cake, but it is not his cake. The cake was baked by Pudding, Chiffon and the WCI31. Even without Sanji, the cake would have been made and be ready in time and, as long as it didn't taste bad, would have calmed Linlin down.
Sanji makes it very clear that he didn't take part of the baking itself and would focus on adding his "secret ingredient" after it was done.
He left the cake to the others while he readied the whipped cream that would be added after the cake was ready and carry his secret ingredient.Sanji's contribution was elevate the taste of the cake from great to heavenly. The reaction we saw BM having last chapter, hallucinating from the sheer perfection of the cake taste, that was Sanji. Not the cake, but the out-of-this-world taste. It was that absurd taste that he was betting on, the taste that would make this cake, as he state twice, "knock BM unconscious". And THAT didn't amount to anything.
BM was not left unconscious by the heavenly taste of the cake as continuously predicted by Sanji and the other characters, she didn't lost control of her soul keeping abilities thanks to it, she didn't decided to give a free pass to the SH because the cake was just too good, or anything else a more creative mind like Oda's could think of and maybe force his family to acknowledge his cooking skills and mindset are a quality instead of a defect. We can't even credit the whole cake idea to him, since it was Pudding who actually thought of making a new cake, decided to bet against time and had a spare of the special ingredients - and decided to add Sanji to the plan.
Sanji's contribution to this whole thing had no effect whatsoever except making BM enjoy the cake more than she would have and that's bullshit.At the end of the day, the Tottoland citizens are not wrong in their conclusion. This outcome is much more something accomplished by Pudding (+Chiffon) than by Sanji.
.access timeco., the whipped cream is an integral part of the cake, not some random bonus. Sure, you can make a cake without it, or a cake without Pudding's chocalate syrup, or you can even make a fake cake, or a bad cake, but does it accomplish the mission?
As you mentioned, the internal logic of this subplot was set up when Pudding came up with the idea of baking a new cake to stop Mama's rampage. Her reasoning was not only to protect herself from that danger (since Big Mom could destroy all Totland), but also to save Sanji and the Strawhats from Big Mom's unstopable chase after Perospero's lie. Therefore, when this whole situation was set up, we didn't have any expectation that Sanji would make a cake to knock down Big Mom… and nobody was saying it didn't make sense. The internal logic is sound. And the consequences have met the set up: the Strawhats were saved by the cake in chapter 892 and Totland was saved in chapter 900.
Only after Sanji's ambiguous hype with some random comments that we started to create some other new expectations, so I understand the disappointment.
As for the artistic choices to even write this plot (instead of going for a different route), the reasoning is simples: Oda probably thought this would be an entertaining read. In fact, chapter 900 was a blast of a climax (even if I'm a little annoyed by 901) and this whole thing was a great opportunity to reinforce Sanji's cooking principles after 800 chapters. This subplot also carries some thematic meaning and great visual presentation, so it'll become a very iconic moment in this series (loved or hated).
I dont think people including me, really appreciate how much luffy has grown as captain. I got this feeling during this arc at chapter 878 where luffy made demands on his crew to set sail and make use of pedro's sacrifice. In fact this whole arc how luffy dealt with sanji is also remarkable. Before when he dealt with ussopp leaving the crew, he said "its heavy" implying that the burden of being a captain was too much for him at the time.
Now when sanji did the same thing he stood his ground and took responsiability for it. Here we see luffy having the attitude of a captian. When he told jinbei that " I AM YOUR CAPTAIN NOW". Usually luffy gets dicked around most of time among his crew because of his goofiness and idiocy. But here luffy is taking HIMSELF seriously in this arc. When he made that decleration to jinbei I felt like "wow luffy is slowly becoming a leader like shanks". Its fucking awesome.
.access timeco., the whipped cream is an integral part of the cake, not some random bonus. Sure, you can make a cake without it, or a cake without Pudding's chocalate syrup, or you can even make a fake cake, or a bad cake, but does it accomplish the mission?
As you mentioned, the internal logic of this subplot was set up when Pudding came up with the idea of baking a new cake to stop Mama's rampage. Her reasoning was not only to protect herself from that danger (since Big Mom could destroy all Totland), but also to save Sanji and the Strawhats from Big Mom's unstopable chase after Perospero's lie. Therefore, when this whole situation was set up, we didn't have any expectation that Sanji would make a cake to knock down Big Mom… and nobody was saying it didn't make sense. The internal logic is sound. And the consequences have met the set up: the Strawhats were saved by the cake in chapter 892 and Totland was saved in chapter 900.
Only after Sanji's ambiguous hype with some random comments that we started to create some other new expectations, so I understand the disappointment.
As for the artistic choices to even write this plot (instead of going for a different route), the reasoning is simples: Oda probably thought this would be an entertaining read. In fact, chapter 900 was a blast of a climax (even if I'm a little annoyed by 901) and this whole thing was a great opportunity to reinforce Sanji's cooking principles after 800 chapters. This subplot also carries some thematic meaning and great visual presentation, so it'll become a very iconic moment in this series (loved or hated).
Also Puddings chocolate used Sanji's cream too.
Both are integral pieces to any Cake:
Cream and Chocolate.
Considering the last Nami Clone was Rebbeca way back in Dressrosa 4 years(?) ago, all this backlash seems unnecessary.
How many Nami clones are allowed?
I be thinking how the cake's most important consequence will be Pudding deciding to leave Big Mom. Not some delayed reaction on BM, or something like that. An actual life changing decision made by Pudding after witnessing everything she had. She already saw how Lola and Chiffon were treated and now she's probably the only person in Totland who knows it was really Sanji who saved Totland from even more damage. That's sure to have a pay off in the future. If that's what Oda had intended, I'm all cool about it.
Couple more fiery kicks against BMPs wouldn't hurt, though.
So what is left of this arc:
-Sanji and his family drama. 2 years of it and judge still thinks he is a fail and useless, same as his bros, so this arc was used for them to stay as they are?
-Sanji doing…anything. Baking the cake offpanel and just forget about it so capone can give it to her is nice, if it did not end up getting them i ntrouble instead of helping them;
-Jimbei. Yeah, no way he gets left behind along with his crew and germa for certain Deat;
-pudding doing anything with her fruit;
-pudding and sanji and whatever deal they made off panel;
bm's flashback, streusen that knows about it;
Pound and his family; Lola;
-Pedro; Sanji still thinks he is chillin on the ship.
-Pekoms left for dead;
-chopper doing anything relevant as doctor.
And I'm sure I forgot something.
You guys are forgetting things really fast. Chopper was about to kill himself by trying to throw Prometheus and Big Mom into the ocean (uselessly, of course) and the Sunny and the SHs were about to be fried when the cake was brought by Bege and saved them and all of Totto Land. So yeah, the cake was essential, although I also find it annoying that Big Mom did not stay KO'd for the rest of the arc.
Mmm, I actually forgot about that. But I don't know, all those chapters seemed to be building up to something more than just situational, something more permanent. And it seemed like the cake would've saved the Strawhats when BM would've actually eaten it.
If I remember correctly, before eating the cake BM would have "chased Luffy till the ends of the New World" or something like that. And here we are now and after she ate it she is still chasing them.
Wouldn't it have been better if she ate it in the same chapter as the Strawhats were actually saved by it, and also like you said if she was knocked out from it (and also maybe if it was Sanji to give her the cake and not Bage), all in that same chapter? That for example would've made the whole Sanji saving his nakamas thing way way more clear and effective in my opinion.
And if it wasn't for Sanji's amazingness as a cook, the cake would not have stopped Mama's rampage and she would have destroyed the whole country. Almost every single chapter since the cake started to be baked we were hammered by Chiffon, Pudding and the chefs on how awesome Sanji was and how it would have been absolutely impossible to make that cake in such a short time and with such quality.
I think I agree on everything you said, the cake as a matter of fact was useful, but I feel like there are some problems with the execution. The cake resolution should've looked more essential and rewarding. Example: compare the citizens of Totto Land needed to be saved from rampaging BM to the citizens of Dressrosa needed to be saved from the birdcage.
Anyway it's probably true that when struggling to survive in Yonko territory, the incredibile feat of baking a cake is something that will to look underwhelming no matter what. But this should've been a good reason to make Sanji's effort look more valuable.
Especially considering that throughout the Year of Zoro Zoro will probably defeat the Shogun of Wano and god knows what else.
I think I agree on everything you said, the cake as a matter of fact was useful, but I feel like there are some problems with the execution. The cake resolution should've looked more essential and rewarding.
Do you think Oda's execution in chapter 900 was bad? Or was it rewarding for you as a reader?
The sentence "even if you die, don't die"" is the most stupid thing i've ever heard.
It's a translation issue type of thing. It sounds cool to me on its own, but he's basically saying in Japanese, "Even if you get severely wounded, don't die!" Supposedly. I like these type of lines, because he's basically saying (with only taking the line at face value): "Even if you get injured to the point that you should be dead, don't die!" And, with a series like One Piece bringing back minor characters from deaths, it's rather funny because it's almost 4th wall breaking. It's like Luffy knows that even if Jinbe 'dies', he could just be brought back in some bandages at the end of the arc.
More people throwing their lives away so Luffy can escape. Pretty sure that's all the last 10 chapters or so have been. Also a bit sad to see Big Mom come out of her cake coma so soon.
I didn't dislike the chapter though, don't get me wrong!
I know the big controversy in this chapter is the way the Strawhats managed to escape the Chanter's attack, but I'm honestly not that upset about it, it was a pretty creative and unpredictable way to resolve things, which is clearly seen by the lack of accurate predictions. That being said, I feel like there should have been some consequence to it instead of simply resolving it without any story impact. Hell, even the flag was back by the end of the chapter (A mistake by Oda, I'd imagine).
The worst part about the chapter was the ending. That was super lame. I mean come on Oda, no one reads One Piece to figure out if Luffy becomes Pirate King, we read it to find out how he becomes Pirate King.
Another interesting thing to note is that Sanji was noticeably absent in the entire chapter. I wonder what he could be up to?
Sanji was present, check again.
And the Morgans thing isn't lame at all IMO, far from it. It's not so much that he's stating the obvious, but the real point of interest is how he is openly stating that he has become a full-fledged fan of Luffy's. Morgans, a guy that runs a global newspaper. What will that mean for Luffy moving forward? We already knew he wanted to escape, and would write about him. But now it almost feels like he wouldn't hesitate to more or less create propaganda regarding how awesome Luffy is. Really excited to see what Morgans will do next after writing this story. Also his comment about how the Pirate King will come from the Worst Generation is interesting for two reasons: The first is that he is pretty much throwing major shade at the Yonkou. The second is that the emphasis Oda put on him saying that gives the impression that the Supernova might be more relevant than we think once Big Mom and Kaidou have been defeated. Either way, I look forward to what's to come.
@.access:
Yeah, Moscato being alive was very likely not just because this is OP but because of that Mont d'Or' scene. We only thought that he was going to be brought back in the aftermath of the arc, but as it turns out it had already happened offscreen.
Opera being currently alive and well is what would be weird, since we know there wasn't any chance for BM to revive him yet (or not, maybe Perospero included it in his report this chapter and she already had it fixed?).
I didn't get the impression that it was Big Mom who revived Moscato. It's more likely that it was one of her Incarnation homies, or even a sibling. I don't think there's any complex ability Big Mom would have to do anyways. You just merely stick his lifespan back into his body.
@uniaka:
So what is left of this arc:
-Sanji and his family drama. 2 years of it and judge still thinks he is a fail and useless, same as his bros, so this arc was used for them to stay as they are?
-Sanji doing…anything. Baking the cake offpanel and just forget about it so capone can give it to her is nice, if it did not end up getting them i ntrouble instead of helping them;
-Jimbei. Yeah, no way he gets left behind along with his crew and germa for certain Deat;
-pudding doing anything with her fruit;
- the underworld brokers;
-pudding and sanji and whatever deal they made off panel;
bm's flashback, streusen that knows about it;
Pound and his family; Lola;
-Pedro; Sanji still thinks he is chillin on the ship.
-Pekoms left for dead;
-chopper doing anything relevant as doctor.
And I'm sure I forgot something.
1. Next chapter is almost assuredly going to resolve the Vinsmokes once and for all due to Vito worrying about them, but I don't necessarily know about expecting anymore interactions between them and Sanji. Especially regarding the siblings, who are all the way back at Cacao Island. Anyways, only Judge genuinely matters here as far as the drama goes.
2. Could go either way.
3. You're basically saying to invalidate this chapter, which wouldn't make any sense. And why would it be certain death? They're Fishmen.
4. Could go either way. For all we know, the last notable use of Pudding's DF could be a flashback of whatever it is she did with Sanji regarding her last wish.
5. Could also go either way. Frankly, they haven't really been touched upon like Stussy and Morgans have. For those two, it makes sense why Oda occasionally shows us what they're up to. I don't know if he'll do the same for the others. At any rate, I have no idea what to expect from them.
6. Depends on what said wish, could just as easily be a long-term thing that gets revealed. Though yea, we'll probably see it I guess.
7. Almost assuredly will be dealt with in a later arc at this point. Streusen isn't even here.
8. Pound's fate isn't something he needs to resolve right now. As for Lola, I expect her to show up in a later arc tbh.
9. Same as Pound, doesn't need to be addressed, Luffy and co. all assume he's dead. So if Oda has him appear, it'd be more like a surprise, rather than one of the remaining things the arc absolutely has to address before it concludes.
10. Could go either way in terms of Oda showing us what happened, since he didn't give the impression that he was about to die. I think next chapter is the best time for that, assuming that we see the Vinsmokes again.
11. It's Chopper, so keep expectations low.
So the cliffhanger with the fishman and Oven heapens to times in row…
Probs to Aladin for fighting that overpowerd heating sea idiot...
I really liked Wadatsumi this chapter. Both his determination to overcome the pain and his speech to Jimbei were good. MVP of the chapter for me.
Interesting that there is a sister standing in the way of Oven. I wonder how he feels about it.
Sooo why did Wadatsumi switch the ships? That just seems like a waste and a way to trick the audience rather than a smart or impactful move. they mention that the ship is from Tiger but if the sacrifice of the ship was going to carry weight they probably should have had the audience connect to it before. Maybe show Tiger making it and passing it on or something or Jimbei and Alladine talk how it's the last thing Tiger left them. As it is it was just a prop to fool the audience and nothing else.
This chapter really reminded why I never want captains to join. I can't really feel good about Jimbei leaving his crew and joigning a new one. It bothers me to my core. Even in the case of Ace they were all absorbed into his unit so he didn't just leave them.
So the cake just made Big Mom happy? I was hoping for more. I seemed to remember Chiffon picked that island so that even if Big MOm came to the strawhats could escape. Although with them taking water maybe they are slower than Chiffon expected. She did the best she could t help them time for them to help.
I still find it funny when Luffy is compared to the rest of the supernovas. He is so far above it's not even funny. What they do in 5 years he ddoesin 1 month. No wonder Blackbeard had to be put there to give the illusion of a competition.
THe only reasonI'm not banking on the arc ending is that Pedro has to come back so Sanji won't feel to bad. Or else the lie about him being in the cabn is simply weird.
I really liked Wadatsumi this chapter. Both his determination to overcome the pain and his speech to Jimbei were good. MVP of the chapter for me.
Interesting that there is a sister standing in the way of Oven. I wonder how he feels about it.
Sooo why did Wadatsumi switch the ships? That just seems like a waste and a way to trick the audience rather than a smart or impactful move. they mention that the ship is from Tiger but if the sacrifice of the ship was going to carry weight they probably should have had the audience connect to it before. Maybe show Tiger making it and passing it on or something or Jimbei and Alladine talk how it's the last thing Tiger left them. As it is it was just a prop to fool the audience and nothing else.
This chapter really reminded why I never want captains to join. I can't really feel good about Jimbei leaving his crew and joigning a new one. It bothers me to my core. Even in the case of Ace they were all absorbed into his unit so he didn't just leave them.
So the cake just made Big Mom happy? I was hoping for more. I seemed to remember Chiffon picked that island so that even if Big MOm came to the strawhats could escape. Although with them taking water maybe they are slower than Chiffon expected. She did the best she could t help them time for them to help.
I still find it funny when Luffy is compared to the rest of the supernovas. He is so far above it's not even funny. What they do in 5 years he ddoesin 1 month. No wonder Blackbeard had to be put there to give the illusion of a competition.
THe only reasonI'm not banking on the arc ending is that Pedro has to come back so Sanji won't feel to bad. Or else the lie about him being in the cabn is simply weird.
As shown with Chiffon, Oven cares not for traitors, even if they are his dear sisters.
Wadatsumi swapped the ships because they were hoping to fake the Straw Hats' deaths. But the BM Pirates caught on easily.
If this ship-switch bullshit was pulled in, say, Naruto or Bleach, it would have been mocked every two posts for the next 10 years or so, and rightfully so. but it's Oda doing it so "meh it does make sorta sense", even if it doesn't, and its a terrible cop out for a TOTALLY NEEDLESS cliffhanger.
Really, these are fairy tail levels of pointless fake tension.
Also, someone care to explain why the fishmen pirates feel so invested in jimbe's new crush to the point of cheerfully decide to simply throw away their lives for the sake of it? The guy changed his allegiance FOUR TIMES by now, Luffy being the fifth, each time basically betraying what he supposedly stood for the day before and two of these times it was just to save his fat ass. Still he gets revered as some paragon of heroic virtue. Bah.
Finally, i still miss the point for friggin' fishmen to have a ship at all.
I guess they realized that too this week and decided to get rid of it for free instead of just pulling the sunny underwater.
"but that's the legendary ship our dead captain and hero left us as a legacy and perpeutal memento of his deeds and ideals!"
"who cares lol it was a stupid idea to begin with. The ship of the teenage boy our middle-aged captain craves to get ordered around by is what matters the most right now!"
As shown with Chiffon, Oven cares not for traitors, even if they are his dear sisters.
Yeah but Chiffon was ostracized for a long time while Alladine's wife seems like the kind to hang with her family.
Wadatsumi swapped the ships because they were hoping to fake the Straw Hats' deaths. But the BM Pirates caught on easily.
They have a giant fish in front of it. I doubt they sacrifice what was supposedly in important ship for a plan that silly. A random boat would have made a little bit more sense.
Do you think we're done with the Hajrudin Arc, moving on to Orlumbus, or are we gonna stay with Hajrudin for a few more chapters then move to Orlumbus?
"Wadatsumi, what the hell are you doing?! Just grab the bloody boat and swim for it!"
"No…must sacrifice Tiger's...ship..."
"Why?! That's wasting precious time and wood and accomplishes nothing!"
"Must fool......unknown spectators...who may or may not be watching this..."
@uniaka:
So what is left of this arc:
-Sanji and his family drama. 2 years of it and judge still thinks he is a fail and useless, same as his bros, so this arc was used for them to stay as they are?
-Sanji doing…anything. Baking the cake offpanel and just forget about it so capone can give it to her is nice, if it did not end up getting them i ntrouble instead of helping them;
-Jimbei. Yeah, no way he gets left behind along with his crew and germa for certain Deat;
-pudding doing anything with her fruit;
- the underworld brokers;
-pudding and sanji and whatever deal they made off panel;
bm's flashback, streusen that knows about it;
Pound and his family; Lola;
-Pedro; Sanji still thinks he is chillin on the ship.
-Pekoms left for dead;
-chopper doing anything relevant as doctor.
And I'm sure I forgot something.
where has gone Caesar?
how can Moscato be alive?
what power had the 30 chapter hyped cake?
who will sto Mama which is chasing Luffy?
If this ship-switch bullshit was pulled in, say, Naruto or Bleach, it would have been mocked every two posts for the next 10 years or so, and rightfully so. but it's Oda doing it so "meh it does make sorta sense", even if it doesn't, and its a terrible cop out for a TOTALLY NEEDLESS cliffhanger.
Looking through the thread here, it seems to get heavily criticized by a fanbase that usually tends to be very forgiving in regards to Odas faults.