@BobLoblaw:
You're consistently bringing Chopper into the conversation as if he disqualifies Carrot. While they're both what someone would consider "animal-like," the distinctions end there. A rabbit and a reindeer don't exactly have anything in common from a physical standpoint. One could argue, though, that their relationship could correlate to Bambi and Thumper in how close they've been this arc (Carrot admiring Chobro and Chopper being proud of his "little sister.")
Furry animal-like. I would give Carrot more of a chance if she were at least, say, a reptile, bird, amphibian, etc. But no, she's a talking furry animal part of the race that Luffy literally called "an island full of Choppers". A rabbit and reindeer have fur, small triangle noses, and mouth shapes in common according to Oda's art-style.
But that hasn't even been my main argument. My main argument is that Chopper has several other physical traits that make him more unique than talking male reindeer, whereas Carrot's design is solely defined as talking female rabbit. The former is Oda's occasional attempt at making a main character standout in the entire manga. The latter is introducing a supporting character of the arc that can fade in the midst of a background with whatever faction they belong to.
The fact they have this sibling relationship clearly illustrates how Oda is having fun with how similar they look. As seen in Robby's images. Chopper and Usopp already have brotherly relationship at that, so this would only be a redundant dynamic on the ship.
Smiley faces. How do they work? That was obviously tongue-in-cheek. My point was that I pointed how traits that no other SH had. By your logic, if Carrot had pink hair and a limp left ear, she would then be unique enough to be considered a a potential SH. My point with comparing the other SHs is that comparing any two of them from a purely physical standpoint (like you're doing with Chopper and Carrot), you're bound to find things that are similar between them.
The only trait you kept pointing out is that she's a rabbit.
"White fur". "Long ears". "Big bushy tail". "Pink nose."
Rabbit. Rabbit. Rabbit. Rabbit.
They are synonymous. Whenever I describe Chopper's traits, I don't only say that he has antlers, brown fur, or hooves. Although those traits certainly stood out when he was the only talking animal in the series pre-timeskip aside from the Fishmen. When I describe Chopper's traits, I say:
"Broken antler." "Chibi mascot size." "Blue nose." "Pink top hat with white X." "Seven different transformations."
Would you use any of those traits I mentioned to describe he average reindeer? No. In fact, I want you to go on Google Images right now. Type in "blue nosed reindeer" and tell me what the very FIRST image result is. Then type in "pink nosed rabbit" and tell me the first THIRTY image results for that are. Don't worry, I have a feeling you won't have to type as much as that sounds. This is why you can't use her basic stereotypical rabbit traits to say she has a unique design compared to how much quirky creativity Oda put into all of the other Straw Hats.
But wait, I know what you're going to say next. Carrot's rabbit traits are still unique from the other crew members and the Minks. This is technically true. But a key point I keep bringing up in this discussion is how Oda puts unique quirks into his character designs that make them stand out.
Robin is not just another Nami clone, she has a unique nose bridge, irises, had definitive cowgirl attire in her first appearance, shoulder-length hair, and spawns multiple limbs from thin air.
Franky is not just a cyborg, a light blue pompadour and aloha shirt/sunglasses like Ace Ventura, blue star tattoos on his Popeye-shaped forearms, a metal nose, a speedo without any pants to cover his hairy legs, a three triangle-shaped chin.
Brook is not just a talking skeleton, he has an afro, Victorian suit, small top hat, a cane sword, plays the violin, drinks tea, and is extremely thin/tall.
Jinbe is not just a fishman, he has a two sharp teeth poking out his mouth like an oni, big nose, fat body shape, red sun brand mark on chest, two gold streaks in his topknot hair, a kimono with a cape, wooden sandals, thick goatee, lightning-shaped scar on one eye, tidal gold tsunami-shaped eyebrows/sideburns, and makes martial arts poses.
I'll copy and paste the first four male Straw Hats from a couple pages ago too for your convenience:
Luffy: Straw hat, vest, shorts, sandals, constantly stretches his body, scar on right cheek
Zoro: Three katana, three earrings on right ear, green hair, green haramaki belly warmer, dark bandana usually wrapped around right arm
Usopp: Long nose, frilly hair, large lips, three eyelashes per eye, only person to wear goggles/satchel/slingshot/overalls
Sanji: Blonde hair, hair covering one eye, curly eyebrows, light goatee, smokes cigarettes, business suit
Any similarities the other Straw Hats have at the time they joined the crew are EXTREMELY minor at best, and had more than enough unique design traits to make up for them. Unlike Carrot's design resume only having "RABBIT" written all over it like on her shirt.
I've already addresses your points. You almost went out of your way to downplay the ones that I made. The five physical distinctions that I pointed out with Carrot are still true and make here unique amongst all the members of the crew. If you're going to compare her to anyone, you should compare her to the other females in the crew. Bringing in Chopper, Pedro, Brook, and other minks makes your argument seem less genuine given you can find overlapping traits in any character.
She is only distinct as a rabbit. You have still yet to name any physical trait she has that is neither one the average rabbit already has nor a hair color that a Straw Hat already has.
Those stereotypical traits you're referring to are still what makes her unique amongst the SH crew. It doesn't matter how many people outside of that group have the same traits. You wouldn't bring up Yonji when talking about Zoro being unique or Viola when talking about Robin. Carrot's the only rabbit mink we've seen. Her connection to the SHs and Pedro isn't a physical trait, but it makes her unique when it comes to any other mink.
It does matter when every single Straw Hat stood out in the island they were introduced in. Jinbe is unique from every fishman, and not just because he is the only one themed after whale sharks. Chopper was the only talking animal on Drum, and has unique traits in his design aside from having reindeer descent.
I wouldn't bring up Yonji because Sanji already joined the crew. If Sanji didn't join the crew, he might be as probable a candidate as Carrot. Although I would doubt him just the same because of his green hair being similar to Zoro. And yes, I would TOTALLY bring up Viola (along with Hancock) looking too much like Robin. What makes you think I wouldn't use these comparisons? Of course I would.
Do you think I have some sort of bias towards Chopper's design exclusively? I am comparing Carrot to every crew member, not only Chopper. Chopper just happens to be the one she happens to share the most similarities with. She stands out compared to everybody else aside from Sanji and Brook's hair/body colors. Every new Straw Hat needs unique design features that stand out compared to their race (being a rabbit Mink is just as "unique" as being a dog or cat Mink) and already existing crew members. You keep spinning this into some sort of criticism about how if a straw hat
How many SHs have white fur? How many have pink noses? How many have bushy tails? How many have maroon eyes? How many have ears on the top of their heads? This is my point, you're minimizing the very things that makes her unique. It's factually inaccurate (even disingenuous) to say she's the same as Brook or Chopper based on her physical characteristics, not to mention her personality, and her connection to Pedro, Zou, etc.
Yes, none of the Straw Hats are rabbits. They're not dogs, cats, leopards, lions, or bears either. Thus, I think it's reasonable to assume that (assuming deaths are null as usual) Nekomamushi, Inurashi, Wanda, Pedro, Pekoms, and Bepo are all fair game for joining the crew in Wano Country. Everyone is saying that Carrot can get more character development there, right? So can they! And you know what sounds even more unique than maroon eyes you would barely see the color of? A third eye! Maybe Pudding can stow away on the Thousand Sunny like Carrot did. Assuming that ship is still in one piece, of course.
Let's keep this topic on character design rather than using her personality to compensate for that. Not that she has much personality to compensate with aside from being energetically carefree and dreaming of high seas adventures like Luffy, Chopper, and Usopp. Hence why she keeps joining on their group gags. But hey, maybe that one girly drawing gag out of nowhere can be expanded upon. Even though Usopp is already a good artist and drew the ship's flag.
Name a real life reindeer with a blue nose? Wut? Let's keep this on OP. It's more interesting than real life.
No, let's keep this on the topic of Oda's character design style and source of inspiration. Oda obviously didn't simply make a talking reindeer, but his own specialized talking reindeer with unique design traits. Therefore, it is completely fair to compare those attributes to Carrot, who lacks any semblance of unique design traits outside of being a talking rabbit.
Again, similar by it's very definition does not equal the same. Yes, they both have fur and their noses/mouth look similar, but that's it. They aren't the same species or gender. Yes, they fit into the anthropomorphic category, but lumping them in together is no different that lumping Zoro, Sanji, Usopp, and Luffy into the same generic categories (humanoid males with similar physical traits).
Gender making Carrot unique is irrelevant when there are already two female crew members, unless she were eventually identify as non-binary or steal Ivankov's Devil Fruit for gender fluidity. That "generic human" doesn't work because humans are the standard status-quo for the series since East Blue. It is the fictional races exclusive to One Piece's world that are meant to be unique gimmicks for a single crew member respectively. It isn't different from black is the basic neutral hair color Oda uses for four Straw Hats while everybody else has a unique hair color.
When all you have are similar traits and barely any unique traits, that's a problem for an artist as creative as Oda. Carrot's main problem isn't even that she is a rabbit girl, but that she is ONLY a rabbit girl. This is how you know Oda didn't spend twenty years constantly redesigning her like he did with the other Straw Hats if you look at the One Piece datebook green Straw Hat Pirates concept art made before the series started. Chopper is more than a reindeer boy in comparison. Oda thought that a rabbit girl would be a fun and fitting supporting character for a fairy tale-themed arc, and he sketched her up in a couple hours at most.
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Again, Carrot doesn't rip off any guys. Her hair color is similar to Sanji's (just like Robin's is similar to Luffy's), but that's about it. I'm not going to point out the fact that Carrot and Chopper have more dissimilar things in common than similar again.
Again, black is the default hair color Technically, black is the absence of color. Every true color that you see along the rainbow's spectrum is only used for one crew member.
Name one unique thing about Carrot's design compared to all of the Straw Hats that is not "different species". I bet you can only clawed gloves like the other Minks.
I was purposefully pulling that stuff out because then I would say that she uses a gauntlet tends to be in the crow's nest and stuff like that. None of that had anything to do with her physical traits, which is what you emphasize so much in your comparisons between her and Chopper, Brook, Pedro, Sanji, and anyone else I've forgotten.
I emphasize the physical traits because that is what she shares in common with Chopper. If she had a top hat like Chopper, or if she wore a business suit like Sanji, I would also bring that up. And staying in the crow's nest is not a design trait.
Sure. They have more in common with each other than anyone else does with Carrot (again, from a physical perspective). Give Zoro blonde hair and a swirly eyebrow or Sanji green hair and stright eyebrows and see how similar they are with just two changes? If Carrot were brown, I definitely would've thought more about her joining simply because of that, but, as it stands, no one else has white fur.
Why are you taking a Straw Hat's unique physical traits and swapping them for another? It doesn't matter if they all look the same if you strip down their uniqueness. The point in Oda's creativity is that they have these unique details to begin with. Unique details that are more than "different species". One of Chopper's most unique details is being mostly brown fur and one of Brook's most unique details is being mostly white. Combining them does not make for unique trait that makes her creatively stand out in a character lineup. It only draws comparisons like what I'm doing now.
True. I'll give you that one. There were better comparisons (Zoro/Sanji) to make.
Glad you understand.
I never said her overall design couldn't have been better. It definitely could've been, but when you compare her plain design to Nami and Robin, there's no difference when it comes to simplicity for the female characters.
You know what neither Nami nor Robin's designs do? Rip off the guys. I don't see Nami having blonde hair or Sanji having orange hair. I don't see Robin having the same nose as Usopp or vice-versa. I don't see either of them wearing aloha shirts but having flower patterns instead of palm trees. No, they still have their distinct flavors despite not looking anywhere as fun or wacky as the guys.
Honestly, I said I wasn't going to get drawn into another long argument anyway. The point I was making, again, was that pointing out overlapping similarities should not necessarily disqualify anyone. When you try to compare Brook and Jinbe and Franky, there are TONS of differences. You compare the other males and you start to see similar physical traits if you just change one or two things.
Overlapping similarities should disqualify them. This is a crew that looks as vibrant as a circus (unfortunately that means they need a hideous circus ship too). You don't have you own unique shtick? They're not sharing the main spotlight. But you can't change those unique traits, and they have more than only one or two unique traits. That is the point I am making.
True, but we've seen other fishmen that were just as unique, though. Arlong, Jinbe, and Hody were all unique in their designs. You line them all up, and Jinbe does stick out a bit more, but not by much. Heck, even Zeo and Hyouzou probably look more unique.
You are correct. But Jinbe has the most unique details going into his design that are not solely aquatic animal-based. Oni teeth, gold tidal wave eyebrows/hair, topknot hairstyle with two gold streaks, wooden sandals, fat body, plump nose, a red sun brand on his chest, and makes martial arts poses aside from Kuroobi, Hack, and Koala (who are all inferior when it comes to Fishman Karate prowess). He is not just the whale shark Fishman, he is the fat oni yakuza boss whale shark fishman.
The Fishmen looking that unique are a testament to how much effort Oda put into their design compared to the Minks in my opinion. Aside from the chieftains' cool designs, Pekoms' pink mafia suit, and maybe Pedro aside from his blonde hair and cigarettes, they all have that boring musketeer shtick for their attire. But even then, there are some among them that have more unique design traits than Carrot, like Sicilian having a red beard.
This wasn't a response for me, but she is a tomboy. Perhaps it makes sense that she would have a couple of traits that the male characters have (not exact traits, but similar traits).
I thought we were talking about character designs, not personalities. There is nothing about Carrot's design that alludes to her tomboyish personality. Maybe that would work if she looked more androgynous (not that tomboys have to look androgynous, but it is the common visual indicator fiction likes to use). Such as having hair as short as Luffy and Zoro, and not wearing a dress. She looks just as feminine as Nami, Robin, and every princess we've seen.
Having blonde hair like Sanji and a nose/mouth like Chopper is neither masculine nor feminine. I have no idea where you're going with this. They're gender neutral derivative traits, end of story.