We don't know much about their relation. And she has no reason to tell him about nen
Hiatus x Hiatus III: Goodnight, Sweet Princes
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We don't know much about their relation. And she has no reason to tell him about nen
I can agree that she wouldn't tell him about Nen if she planned to backstab him after he became a king or something like that. But that would be a god plan only if she can be sure he'll never discover Nen on his own or with a help of someone else. The moment that happens, he'll be able to notice she's a Nen user at any given time and realize she can't be trusted. So much for world destruction.
If you're gonna be an author who writes characters intelligently thinking through their every move, you can't just conveniently choose when to do it and when not to. Since we are dealing with a criminal kingpin plotter here, after all.
Even without that, it's weird that, living in a world like that, with near limitless resources at his disposal, Tserr never once heard of existence of something called Nen. On top of the fact that he's supposedly a genius who should have been able to figure some of it out on his own.
The whole thing doesn't hold together that well under deeper scrutiny.
I'll admit it can still be explained with some additional intricacies. Like Nen ability condition requiring secrecy or something like that. That would be the easiest way out, I suppose.
Anyway, Fugetsu being in lower sections, just as we find out the killing of a prince gives Heil-Ly members 50 level ups, is rather convenient. I doubt the crescent moon scar dude will manage to kill her, but I think he'll definitely get to try it. Considering his ability, he's the only one we know of that can actually discover she's there and do anything about it.
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We don't hear about this anymore since the story revolves are nen users, but nen was supposed to be something kept secret, and not talked about to non nen users. At least that's what I got with the way they introduced nen to new hunters.
In fact, I think Kurapika should be getting into trouble with the Hunter's Association for what he is doing. (Not saying this will happen, I think it will be ignored)
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Togashi wouldn't just put that past dialogue for nothing. From it, seems like Tserr isn't much of a fan of the world either. More princes killed means less competition for Tserr too.
What makes you think Tserreidnich hates the world? The man has interests and hobbies ranging from benign things like football and philosophy to aspirations of running a dictatorship on the new continent. Morena just wants to see everyone and everything burn, including her own self. Why would she care about Tserreidnich beyond what he can do further her goals?
She doesn’t say to her subordinates “Every prince with the exception of Tserreidnich is worth 50 points”, only that “a prince is worth 50 points.”.
That's a long stretch.
How is it a long stretch? You mean to tell me you believe this psychopath has known Nen for months/years, runs a mafia family and in spite of those two facts believe she has only killed 44 people?? Luini has killed 23 people and reached level 24 in a matter of hours. That’s over half her level already and he’s nothing more than an underling. All signs point to her being relatively new to Nen herself.
I do.
Only if you don’t bother to look at the situation critically and take the facts about Morena into account.
The bigger stretch is thinking that she’s known Nen for some extended period of time.
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I can agree that she wouldn't tell him about Nen if she planned to backstab him after he became a king or something like that. But that would be a god plan only if she can be sure he'll never discover Nen on his own or with a help of someone else. The moment that happens, he'll be able to notice she's a Nen user at any given time and realize she can't be trusted. So much for world destruction.
If you're gonna be an author who writes characters intelligently thinking through their every move, you can't just conveniently choose when to do it and when not to. Since we are dealing with a criminal kingpin plotter here, after all.
As I said we know nothing about their relation except that they're somewhat allies. Also, maybe it's unrelated but it seems like Prude needed a few requirements before activating her ability. Like "only give nen to these 22 people" and "be on a confined ship heading for the dark continent". Also, it's unclear if they'd lose their ability if they live the ship or not. As scar-guy said, he can probably use his power to go back to the human world, but maybe he'll lose his nen then.
Even without that, it's weird that, living in a world like that, with near limitless resources at his disposal, Tserr never once heard of existence of something called Nen. On top of the fact that he's supposedly a genius who should have been able to figure some of it out on his own.
The whole thing doesn't hold together that well under deeper scrutiny.
This arc is actually trying to make it very clear that the existence of nen itself is only known by a few. The reason behind it doesn't hold, but that's what this arc is trying to remind us anyway. Only a few can use nen, and not many know about its existence.
HxH isn't a coherent manga after all. I mean that there is no reason that at least one nen user didn't start a reality show about nen or anything like that. It's very unlikely that there isn't one dumbass nen user on this world that would just tell everyone about nen. –-and eventually proving it of courseAnyway, Fugetsu being in lower sections, just as we find out the killing of a prince gives Heil-Ly members 50 level ups, is rather convenient. I doubt the crescent moon scar dude will manage to kill her, but I think he'll definitely get to try it. Considering his ability, he's the only one we know of that can actually discover she's there and do anything about it.
Fugetsu is there because she fucked up with her nen. It's not ass-pulled or "rather convenient". Togashi is simply relating his subplots
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How is it a long stretch? You mean to tell me you believe this psychopath has known Nen for months/years, runs a mafia family and in spite of those two facts believe she has only killed 44 people?? Luini has killed 23 people and reached level 24 in a matter of hours. That’s over half her level already and he’s nothing more than an underling. All signs point to her being relatively new to Nen herself.
yeah, maybe she got her power from another nen user too. It's unclear if she created her ability herself, or if she is a "victim" of "etude of love" too
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What makes you think Tserreidnich hates the world? The man has interests and hobbies ranging from benign things like football and philosophy to aspirations of running a dictatorship on the new continent. Morena just wants to see everyone and everything burn, including her own self. Why would she care about Tserreidnich beyond what he can do further her goals?
She doesn’t say to her subordinates “Every prince with the exception of Tserreidnich is worth 50 points”, only that “a prince is worth 50 points.”.
Ooops, read that chapter only once. At the time it looked to me like the first panel showing Morena was Tserr's text. Because of that "potential successor" part. Seems as though the Rakers can still become kings. I guess, if every legitimate heir dies and they have enough power and influence.
Sorry about that.
Either way, there's no telling if she put a ban on killing Tserr to her followers. And granted, we do not know much about prince-mafia head relationships in general. But I do believe neither side leaves things to chance, and any prince should keep a careful monitoring on their partners, to avoid betrayal.
How is it a long stretch? You mean to tell me you believe this psychopath has known Nen for months/years, runs a mafia family and in spite of those two facts believe she has only killed 44 people?? Luini has killed 23 people and reached level 24 in a matter of hours. That’s over half her level already and he’s nothing more than an underling. All signs point to her being relatively new to Nen herself.
Who knows how long it took her to kill those 44 people. It's not like mafia heads carry out each and every hit. She does have people doing that for her. I don't think she has known it for years, but if she isn't also a genius herself, she's definitely had it for more than a few days or weeks. Before the boat started moving, definitely.
Only if you don’t bother to look at the situation critically and take the facts about Morena into account.
The bigger stretch is thinking that she’s known Nen for some extended period of time.
I simply think she's known about it for long enough to come to the same conclusion Theta did. Regarding Tserr, I mean. She must know what he's like.
Then again, it's hard to tell with a psycho like that. Maybe she's willingly risking it because she doesn't care if she dies before she completes her goals?
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This arc is actually trying to make it very clear that the existence of nen itself is only known by a few. The reason behind it doesn't hold, but that's what this arc is trying to remind us anyway. Only a few can use nen, and not many know about its existence.
HxH isn't a coherent manga after all. I mean that there is no reason that at least one nen user didn't start a reality show about nen or anything like that. It's very unlikely that there isn't one dumbass nen user on this world that would just tell everyone about nen. –-and eventually proving it of courseBut the thing is the prince of Kakin is not just anybody. He has a lot of ties with the underworld and has resources normal people don't have. And he's learning to use way too fast to be a convincing newb.
Fugetsu is there because she fucked up with her nen. It's not ass-pulled or "rather convenient". Togashi is simply relating his subplots
I didn't mean it as a critique, just made an observation.
However, "because she fucked up with her nen" is a convenient way to put her on the path of a killer wanting a fast level up. You can't bring that many complicated subplots in an arc and not make a shortcut here and there.
yeah, maybe she got her power from another nen user too. It's unclear if she created her ability herself, or if she is a "victim" of "etude of love" too
Didn't think of that, really.
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There's a king and a dozen of princes in Kakin and no one knew about nen, even though kakin's method of sucession involves a nen beast.
Despite the fact that we keep seeing nen because of the protagonists, nen is absolutelly not normal in the world. The Hunter world we see is the deep darkest web there is.
The top floors of heaven's arena is nen users only and yet the announcers/commenters don't talk about nen techniques nor does the audience. Nen users can easily be famous for several things but the general populace doesnt know that they achive such skill with something called nen.According to the wiki, the Hunter Association has 661 members right now.
Now this will be lightly applied maths but, I think that at least a fifth of the nen users we've seen belongs to the Association. Even if they only use or needed their card for a previous job and couldn't care less about the Association itself.
So I would bet there are 5000 nen users in the world at most, counting the ones that activate their nen without knowing about it, like the world's top sportsmen, artists and crafstmen.Since nen is so powerful teachers carefully choose whom they accept as students. Remember that Tserr's chief body guard didn't want to teach him that 'cause he's a scary motherfucker that shouldn't be given more power.
Good people don't want to teach the power to evil people because they'd use it for evil stuff and evil people don't want to teach it to anyone since it could come back to bite them in the ass.
Also normal people don't see nen so even if someone decided to start a reality tv show about it most people wouldn't believe it and the process takes normally years. Genius students like our protagonists took a few months and Tserr's is on a chimera-ant level of terrifying. And the way to try and speed up the process, i. e. hiting someone with a nen attack to open their energy pores, is fatal half or most of the time.
(and I bet that if someone tried to publicly teach nen to everybody that would just invite someother nen user that doesn't agree to come and kill them)And Tserr's being a natural at nen doesn't mean he would ever unlock it. He was seen murdering random girls, he wasn't fighting people.
That's like saying Michael Jordan had to invent basketball on his own or that Mozart needed to build his own piano and come up with a note system or that you have to code every videogame you play.
The people who come up with new methods or technologies are never the best ones at using them.Having nen under wraps isn't that hard if you take a look at how Togashi presented the world.
What's fucking hard is how the hell they kept a continent under wraps in a world with XXI century level of technology.
In the real world we've know that the world is round since the ancient greeks, that's how the sailing instruments were made. The mathemathics worked because the earth was round. That makes world trading much much easier and faster. thats how satelites work.
And people just want to dare into the world. Every year hundreds would be getting on a boat or plane and try to go around the world just because. But then again hundres try out for hunters every year and a few dozens die so I guess that people who try to go around the globe either fail while in the middle of the ocean and come back or just die on the way ot the dark continent or when they get there and no one gets to tell the tales. -
Actually it's been established by glass-kun that the V5 (now V6) was preventing anyone from going to the dark continent. Hence why even someone like Gin had to wait that Kakin's king triggers the succession war to go there.
Which pretty much means that anyone who tried to go there was getting shot by a plane or something like thatAlso, Benjamin and Camilla can use nen. Like, they knew about it before the trip. But they seem to be the only ones.
What's interesting is that they're the two elders -
I knew that the V6 were keeping the secret now but I was also considering the times before they made that deal.
They simply said "look, there's a new continent/land over there". It's not like they said "We confirm the rumours, there's a new land over there and we're finally going".
It's one of those details that could have been hinted somewhere before. Someone reading conspiracy blogs, a children's book if you wanna take Shandora's route, something like that.But I did not recall that the oldest princes already knew nen when all of this started.
It doesn't really change my "presentation" though. -
Btw how did that kid survive Morenas Battle Royale? She must be One Evil mofo.
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You should all keep in mind that if the destruction of the ship has been hinted. It means that it won't be destroyed. At least not like that.
There is also this guy carrying a gun that we haven't seen in the chapter. We'll probably hear about him later.
The narration is really greatI knew that the V6 were keeping the secret now but I was also considering the times before they made that deal.
They probably had another deal from the first to the last trip. I mean, from the first trip that's been made by a country to the last one (there was 6). It probably looked like "only a big country can go there"
And before the first trip there I guess no one could physically go there. Just like how it took centuries to improve ships to go to the Americas in real lifeAlso even though HxH kinda looks like 21th century real-world, it doesn't mean that they have all the technologies we have.
For instance, they have miniaturized nukes that can fit into Netero's butthole, but they don't necessarily have satellites. Also, they don't even seem to have planes but only airships. And even though it might only be for aesthetics, it doesn't change that we haven't seen a single airplane yetThey simply said "look, there's a new continent/land over there". It's not like they said "We confirm the rumours, there's a new land over there and we're finally going".
It's one of those details that could have been hinted somewhere before. Someone reading conspiracy blogs, a children's book if you wanna take Shandora's route, something like that.Yeah it's pretty much because HxH isn't very much coherent. Togashi doesn't think about what's gonna happen in a few arcs.
Honestly "wow the kimera-ants were from the dark continent after all?????" is a total stretch. Because this arc really didn't make any sense how it came outta no fucking where. Its introduction was worst than Hisoka's fight against Chrollo to be honestBtw how did that kid survive Morenas Battle Royale? She must be One Evil mofo.
what kid?
However, "because she fucked up with her nen" is a convenient way to put her on the path of a killer wanting a fast level up. You can't bring that many complicated subplots in an arc and not make a shortcut here and there.
There are constant deathflags on the princes. Fugetsu screwing up and ending in the lower compartiments of the ship doesn't make it more convenient than getting out of her room tbh.
Also, it was bound to happen. After all she doesn't have a grasp on how her power works, she luckily ended up in her sister's room last time but as she hinted it two chapters ago "maybe she could get out of the ship with her ability". It turns out that she can go way farther than in the room next to her.And you're making a bit of a stretch here. I don't see Luini killing her (or any of the 22 Heil-ly killers looking for a prince, because yeah, Luini isn't alone). After all the Zodiacs are protecting her now, and they're not gonna wait any longer before sending her back to her room. Also, it's not like they were gonna tell anyone that they found Fugetsu. They know that there is a succession war going on.
I can see Mizaistom capturing the killer and getting informations though -
There are constant deathflags on the princes. Fugetsu screwing up and ending in the lower compartiments of the ship doesn't make it more convenient than getting out of her room tbh.
Also, it was bound to happen. After all she doesn't have a grasp on how her power works, she luckily ended up in her sister's room last time but as she hinted it two chapters ago "maybe she could get out of the ship with her ability". It turns out that she can go way farther than in the room next to her.And you're making a bit of a stretch here. I don't see Luini killing her (or any of the 22 Heil-ly killers looking for a prince, because yeah, Luini isn't alone). After all the Zodiacs are protecting her now, and they're not gonna wait any longer before sending her back to her room. Also, it's not like they were gonna tell anyone that they found Fugetsu. They know that there is a succession war going on.
I can see Mizaistom capturing the killer and getting informations thoughNever seed he's gonna succeed. But I can easily see an attempt being made. At the very least, he's the only one who can actually discover she's there to begin with, thanks to his ability. Then he can either try to kill her or relay the information to boss or others, or both.
It's also possible the chaos will break loose before they have time to send her back to upper deck.
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They probably had another deal from the first to the last trip. I mean, from the first trip that's been made by a country to the last one (there was 6). It probably looked like "only a big country can go there"
And before the first trip there I guess no one could physically go there. Just like how it took centuries to improve ships to go to the Americas in real lifeAlso even though HxH kinda looks like 21th century real-world, it doesn't mean that they have all the technologies we have.
For instance, they have miniaturized nukes that can fit into Netero's butthole, but they don't necessarily have satellites. Also, they don't even seem to have planes but only airships. And even though it might only be for aesthetics, it doesn't change that we haven't seen a single airplane yetYeah it's pretty much because HxH isn't very much coherent. Togashi doesn't think about what's gonna happen in a few arcs.
Honestly "wow the kimera-ants were from the dark continent after all?????" is a total stretch. Because this arc really didn't make any sense how it came outta no fucking where. Its introduction was worst than Hisoka's fight against Chrollo to be honestYeah, I guess HXH world isn't exactly XXI century, more like an alternative XX century.
And iirc, their cellphones were made from bugs and not simply electronics.
Still, the Americas and the maritime road to India (going south around Africa) were enterprises taken in the 15th century. That's 500 years of difference.But I also had a similar feeling when Toriko pulled the "turns out there's a wild wild world beyond the human continents".
It's a cool idea on paper, and it works if the setting is more medieval or ancient, but since I, as a reader, am aware that the modern world, which these works imitate, turned out like this because of those easier trade routes and those mathematics it fights my suspension of desbelief.The ants being from the Dark Continent is what makes most sense in the middle of all of this, to me.
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Semi related but I was just listening to a livestream where rogersbase, kingoflightning and other youtube reviewers were debating this tournmanet meme craze with the 32 shonen jump series and going battling them off against each other. One Piece and HxH met in the semi's and a few people stated this.
York new city arc and the chimera ant arc are better than any one arc in one piece. Even amongst the one piece "prefers" there werent a ton of disagreements to that statement.
What one piece arcs do you have on the level of those two? ( Chimera ant arc is more polarizing so if you didnt care for that then just focus on york new)
Persomally I was thinking definitely Skypiea, Enies Lobby and Sabaody for sure. Maybe alabasta or marineford and whole cake possibly but that depends on it how it ends and if the issues arent so neatly tied here then how theyll be tied later.So id say 4-5 arcs rn is that too much praise for OP?
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Obviously everyone has different tastes, but I too personally felt like OP also had arcs that resonated better with me than those HxH arcs.
Now I only read the manga from where the anime ended, but while I consider Greed Island one of my favorite arcs in a series, I really was not a fan of Chimera Ant or the current arc in the manga at all.
My favorite thing HxH does is the use of sorta "anti-climax", where the arc never ends they way you expect, specifically with the good guys winning clean. This is great when marathoning shorter anime arcs. But Chimera left me ultimately disappointed, and reading the manga weekly with hiatuses has proven confusing for myself. I also hear that Ant arc is where the art dips, and moves into heavy narration, and really becomes more book than manga, like the current chapters.But like I said, everyone likes different stuff. I also think I like YuYuHakusho more than HxH in every way, and there OP backstories that resonate so much with me, that I simply can't say many other manga have done that.
So yeah I think I would put the OP arcs you named on par or better than York New -
@Long:
Semi related but I was just listening to a livestream where rogersbase, kingoflightning and other youtube reviewers were debating this tournmanet meme craze with the 32 shonen jump series and going battling them off against each other. One Piece and HxH met in the semi's and a few people stated this.
York new city arc and the chimera ant arc are better than any one arc in one piece. Even amongst the one piece "prefers" there werent a ton of disagreements to that statement.
What one piece arcs do you have on the level of those two? ( Chimera ant arc is more polarizing so if you didnt care for that then just focus on york new)
Persomally I was thinking definitely Skypiea, Enies Lobby and Sabaody for sure. Maybe alabasta or marineford and whole cake possibly but that depends on it how it ends and if the issues arent so neatly tied here then how theyll be tied later.So id say 4-5 arcs rn is that too much praise for OP?
I love HxH a lot, but the CH arc was the only one where I thought yea, this is unquestionably HxH's masterpiece arc, no question about it. Though I did like the Yorknew arc a great deal, whenever I try to remind myself about it, my mind draws blanks tbh, which perhaps says a lot. (Maybe it's time for a rewatch.) Whereas with OP I felt that whole "GOAT arc" vibe with Arlong Park, Enies Lobby, Marineford, and Sabaody. (WCI arc I agree could be up there, depending on how it ends)
Now, I could definitely say that the Chimera Ant arc is ultimately better than Marineford and Sabaody, but in the end I easily put the Enies Lobby and Arlong Park arcs over it. As I was going through the HxH anime, there was a time when it was tempting to overall prefer HxH to One Piece due to how it enjoyed subverting the usual shounen trends, or because it's typically much "wordier". But One Piece in comparison has virtually perfected a formula within its arcs that just resonate with me in a way that HxH never will. It was evident as far back as Arlong Park, and it's still evident today.
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Honestly I couldn't care less about Yorknew city. The only thing I liked was Uvoguin's fight and his death.
But yeah, I would say that there is nothing like the kimera ant arc, the election arc and the expedition arc in OnePiece.Also, unlike OnePiece there don't seem to be a pattern in HxH's arcs. They won't "discover the island, find out the issues, fight individually every villain, and eat at the end". And this is probably what's taking so much time to Togashi to process. Not the drawings, but writing the scenario and the dialogues?
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Well in theory you can break down HxH to a pattern if you want to:
- Bring a bunch of exotic characters in a remote location
- Have them play games
Hunter exam is a series of tasks which can be considered a game.
Killua retrieval arc is a series of tasks of which one is a coin game.
Heavens arena is a series of battles that take game like strategy to win.
York shin is a series of situations and battles with game like strategy.
Greed island is a literal video game implemented in real life. With lots of subgames.
Chimera Ant arc? Again, lots of battles with strong game like strategies. One of them a dart game.
Election arc - politics with lots of game theory. With some strategy based battles in parallel.
Succession war - Battle Royale.Its no wonder that Dragon Quest joke is so prevalent with Togashi - its probably where he gets most of his ideas from anyways.
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Well, basically, you've just inserted the word "game" everywhere.
The only pattern I can see is that each arc end in an unexpected way. Which can hardly be defined as a pattern
Hunter Exam: Kilua doesn't get his hunter licence
Heaven's Arena: they don't go to the top floor
Yorknew City: Only Uvoguin dies (and Pakunoda)
Greed Island: uhhhhh, the last game was unexpected ?
Kimera-ant: No one beats the king and his guards, they just die because of a nuke…
Election: Pariston leaves after winning the election
Expedition to the DC: Tserriednich doesn't win the succession war and Hisoka isn't even in the ship -
Well, basically, you've just inserted the word "game" everywhere.
The only pattern I can see is that each arc end in an unexpected way. Which can hardly be defined as a pattern
Hunter Exam: Kilua doesn't get his hunter licence
Heaven's Arena: they don't go to the top floor
Yorknew City: Only Uvoguin dies (and Pakunoda)
Greed Island: uhhhhh, the last game was unexpected ?
Kimera-ant: No one beats the king and his guards, they just die because of a nuke…
Election: Pariston leaves after winning the election
Expedition to the DC: Tserriednich doesn't win the succession war and Hisoka isn't even in the shipNot really trying to disagree there, but even in that you can infer a patern. New issue arises (Hunter License, Finding Ging, Making Money, Saving a friend, etc.) During the course of achieving the goal, some subset of the mains will get pulled into a bigger plot, they will rise to the occasion, right as it looks like they will all make it through at least one character will have a set back. You could go further to say, the in between arcs are always. Set back is over come, subset needs to accomplish something new, new issue arrises.
Thing is that is true of any story and any shonen story in particular.
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Greed Island: uhhhhh, the last game was unexpected ?
They find Kite not Ging at the end.
About Expedition arc, my gut says: Only a few princes die and the whole thing gets cancelled/suspended due to some unforeseen circumstance (The King gets killed/overthrown, the ship sinks, some princes escape, etc)
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Skypiea is the single best arc in an action-adventure shonen manga. Ever. Add in Jaya, and it's also the best saga.
Both Chimera Ant and Yorknew are good, gotta agree with that. . .but man, they're just so full of these Toghasi-isms that I find so hilarious and overblown, can't take them 100% seriously anymore.
Like, seriously. . .counterfeits. It's gonna be SUPER relevant, need to spend entire chapters telling you how they work (always "tell", Togashi. Always "tell"). It's MANDATORY to read through enormous walls of text about counterfeits.
But I got sidetracked. Yeah, Skypiea is the absolute peak of shonen manga. Alabasta, Drum, Arlong or even Sabaody are also, in my opinion, every bit as good as those two arcs.
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Expedition to the DC: Tserriednich doesn't win the succession war and Hisoka isn't even in the ship
The expedition to DC actually ending at all would be the unexpected way to handle it at this point.
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Skypiea is the single best arc in an action-adventure shonen manga. Ever. Add in Jaya, and it's also the best saga.
Definitely. I just love that arc and almost everything about it.
OP really needs at least one more adventure arc like that.
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Learning that not everyone likes Skypeia was when I realized the internet was a mistake.
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Well, basically, you've just inserted the word "game" everywhere.
Expedition to the DC: Tserriednich doesn't win the succession war and Hisoka isn't even in the shipI would love this Hisoka ending.
I was also expecting that a lot more of the Princes would be dead by now. Does it mean we're heading to an Uvogin/Pakunoda only situation? -
OMFG!
I thought i was the only one who thought that York is average, Chimera an outstanding piece of shonen manga and Skypiea a wonderful set of an arc and most adventure-themed part of a great adventure manga.I read the last chapter, now everyone will go up! Tension for carnage is a fine cliffhanger. I liked this pack of chapters… since Illumi and Hisoka chasing Killua that i didn't enjoyed Hanta this much.
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Well, basically, you've just inserted the word "game" everywhere.
The only pattern I can see is that each arc end in an unexpected way. Which can hardly be defined as a pattern
Hunter Exam: Kilua doesn't get his hunter licence
Heaven's Arena: they don't go to the top floor
Yorknew City: Only Uvoguin dies (and Pakunoda)
Greed Island: uhhhhh, the last game was unexpected ?
Kimera-ant: No one beats the king and his guards, they just die because of a nuke…
Election: Pariston leaves after winning the election
Expedition to the DC: Tserriednich doesn't win the succession war and Hisoka isn't even in the shipI used the word "game" because it can be legitimately applied to a large portion of the Situations in HxH. A game in the broadest sense is an artificial conflict limited by rules where the players try to reach a certain outcome. HxH has several Plot devices that allow Togashi to turn all of the conflicts into just that. Even in cases where a situation starts out as a regular shonen battle Togashi will find a way to twist it so its objective and circumstances so it is basically a game.
- The characters always almost end up in a Situation where regular Shonen violence is not the answer and where the circumstances limit which powers they can use.
- The "playfield" is usually limited to a certain Area like an Island a building or a Ship.
- What is the objective is usually determined by some sort of game master be it the Hunter examiners or Goto or Gin or the Kakin court or Meruem.
- Nen grants Characters certain powers if they follow certain rules like cards in a Card game. Sometimes its even used to form the playfield like with Cheeto. It is a plot device to change the natural laws of the world so they work more like in a game.
- Togashi takes a lot of time explaining Strategies and Moves and their consequence like in a Sports Broadcast.
- Many of the Situations are literal games ( Dodgeball, chess, dart etc.)
If you really cannot see how game oriented this manga is I really cannot help you.
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Just because something uses strategy doesn't mean that it's all a game lol. Obviously Greed Island is a game, some scenarios are games, but if you distill it down to "there are rules, a field, and a lot of dialogue explaining things" then you could apply that to every single series.
One Piece Alabasta Arc: "Crocodile has set up a big nuke in a hidden place, and if the strawhats don't solve the riddle, then they lose."
Dragon Ball Freeza Arc: "The arena is Namek and both sides need to collect the seven Namekian dragonballs and have a Namekian translator to satisfy win conditions."
Nodame Cantabile Piano competitions: "The arena is a concert hall and the win condition is to be the best pianist. Complete with commentary about things that you can only really experience with audio!"
Assassination Classroom (in general): "The classroom is the arena and the win condition is to kill Korosensei. Complete with interesting discussions on loose things and strats and shit"
Joey Jojo Part 6 vs Pucci: "The arena is the state of Florida and the win condition is to figure out the conditions to beat Pucci's other scrubs and then stop him from satisfying his win condition of reaching the Kennedy Space Center. Or beating him in an alternate reality with too much oxygen or something. Complete with intense explanations on things he reads off of snapple bottles."
I agree that there's a lot that can be focused on games in HxH, obviously Greed Island being the principle example, but it does seem like a pretty huge stretch to say that the series is purely game oriented. Ageless_Bum is more accurate imo in saying that there is a certain trend to the arcs and a pattern that you can discern, which is a tried and true flow to storytelling in any medium you find. Everything otherwise mentioned is just a fairly commonplace description of conflict in a story and varying degrees of how far an author will go to describe certain elements.
And you know, that's perfectly fine and there's really no need to deviate hugely from that in order to prove the point that HxH has many eccentric elements to it. You don't need to say "hey everything in HxH is original and great and blows everything out of the water." Conversely, simply because something is breaking a trend doesn't mean that it's necessarily good either. Bleach certainly took a few different odd angles here and there, and we can all pretty much agree that it's pretty garbage.
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@Purple:
Just because something uses strategy doesn't mean that it's all a game lol.
I wouldn't say that they are completely off base though either. Considering all of the arcs mentioned included or exclusively featured Gon and Killua who did treat most everything like a game at one point or another.
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@Purple:
Just because something uses strategy doesn't mean that it's all a game lol. Obviously Greed Island is a game, some scenarios are games, but if you distill it down to "there are rules, a field, and a lot of dialogue explaining things" then you could apply that to every single series.
One Piece Alabasta Arc: "Crocodile has set up a big nuke in a hidden place, and if the strawhats don't solve the riddle, then they lose."
Dragon Ball Freeza Arc: "The arena is Namek and both sides need to collect the seven Namekian dragonballs and have a Namekian translator to satisfy win conditions."
Nodame Cantabile Piano competitions: "The arena is a concert hall and the win condition is to be the best pianist. Complete with commentary about things that you can only really experience with audio!"
Assassination Classroom (in general): "The classroom is the arena and the win condition is to kill Korosensei. Complete with interesting discussions on loose things and strats and shit"
Joey Jojo Part 6 vs Pucci: "The arena is the state of Florida and the win condition is to figure out the conditions to beat Pucci's other scrubs and then stop him from satisfying his win condition of reaching the Kennedy Space Center. Or beating him in an alternate reality with too much oxygen or something. Complete with intense explanations on things he reads off of snapple bottles."
I agree that there's a lot that can be focused on games in HxH, obviously Greed Island being the principle example, but it does seem like a pretty huge stretch to say that the series is purely game oriented. Ageless_Bum is more accurate imo in saying that there is a certain trend to the arcs and a pattern that you can discern, which is a tried and true flow to storytelling in any medium you find. Everything otherwise mentioned is just a fairly commonplace description of conflict in a story and varying degrees of how far an author will go to describe certain elements.
And you know, that's perfectly fine and there's really no need to deviate hugely from that in order to prove the point that HxH has many eccentric elements to it. You don't need to say "hey everything in HxH is original and great and blows everything out of the water." Conversely, simply because something is breaking a trend doesn't mean that it's necessarily good either. Bleach certainly took a few different odd angles here and there, and we can all pretty much agree that it's pretty garbage.
The reason why I mention this is that HxH puts more emphasize on game-like situations and game-aspects of a situation then other mangas.
I want to reinstate my definition of game: "An artificial conflict limited by rules where the players try to reach a certain outcome."
The artificiality of the goal and the artificiality of the rules is what distinguishes games most from real life. A war for example wouldn't usually be regarded as a game as its only straightforward goal is to achieve direct dominance over your enemy. This is no analogy for win. It is win. There also are no rules in war either except maybe some basic stuff to prevent the worst human rights violations. A war in a video game on the other hand employs game mechanics in order to provide an interesting challenge that is also accessible by the player.It is good that you mention DBZ as it is a manga that is particularly non-gamey for the following reasons:
- The goal of each conflict is usually to directly subdue your enemy, usually through violence. Pretty much like in real life.
- There are no rules that limit what a character may do or that grant an advantage by fulfilling random conditions.
The Dragonballs come closest to providing a game like mechanic to the DBZ world, however, they are pretty much never used to directly resolve a conflict, like by killing the final villain. And if they could they are usually disabled in-time so they don't interfere with the main fights. There also is no challenge in finding them later in the series due to the radar and the protatonists abilty to cross the globe in minutes and they are mostly delegated to handling the aftermath of a battle ( reviving people etc.). It is true that Vegatas situation on Namek is gamey, but such situations are rare in the rest of the series.
With One Piece it's the same. Yes, there is a wider range of powers than just muscles and ki blasts but most of the time their main use is to deal and take physical damage and every conflict is again mostly solved through punching your opponent till they lose consciousness. The emphasize lies on "mostly". There are other types of conflicts, but they are in the minority.
That sports mangas are gamey is obvious as sport is gamey by defintion.
Let me again give some examples on how HxH likes to turn regular fights into game like situations:
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The Hunter exam ends with a tournament arc similar to DBZ. However, Netero turns it into a game by defining an artificial goal (make your enemy give up) and artificial rules (don't kill your enemy). This is what allows Gon to defeat the physically and technically stronger Hanzo due to his stronger will.
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When the Zoldycks are tasked to kill Kuroro, it looks again as if we have a regular shonen fight that can be won through violence. Then Togashi explains that the Ryodan and their peers are dangerous fanatics who will sacrifice everything for revenge. So the Zoldycks goal is redefined: Keep Kuroro alive while also keeping your face. They fulfill this condition by having Irumi kill the Dons first.
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The battle against Gensuru. In theory, they could have Biscuit have handled him while Gon and Killua fight his much weaker peers. Instead they let Gon handle him so he can defeat him by using the mechanics of the literal magic game world they are in.
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Meruem. Yes, technically the conflict is solved by the poisoned atomic bomb who kills him. But Togashi puts the emphasizis on a series of game-like conflicts that slowly turn him to the human side. Specifically: Playing Gun-Gi with Komugi, the battle with Netero ( which is a shout-out to the hunter exam final test) and the last hide-and-seek challenge.
You can basically say that whenever Togashi finds a regular Shonen battle in his manga he tries to change the goal and conditions of the battle so it bears more resemblance to a game.
Let me again state the role of Nen in all this:
Its main purpose is implement game-like effects in a mostly real-world scenario. The point of game rules is to grant players an advantage by creating cause-effect relations that in the real world don't exist. In the real world for example you can gain physical strength by exercising. A game on the other hand can grant you an intelligence boost for collecting rare stones etc. which is unlike the real world. Or a strength boost for killing the right monster. The main purpose of this kind of rules is to level the playing field for people that choose to specialize on something different than raw strength. Most Shonen manga superpowers are exaggerations of real life cause-effect scenarios: If you want to be good at something train it directly. Like pushing weights if you want to be strong or keep running if you be want to be fast or if you want to cast better magical spells keep doing them over and over. Nen on the other hand allows you to achieve an effect fundamentally different from what your actual talent is by creating a respective power and bind it to a condition that is your actual strength. Like with Cheeto who was only fast but created a power that triggered an instant-win condition with which he could subdue physically stronger enemies just by running away from them. In a different Shonen manga, Cheeto would have to go to the gym like everyone else.Of course there are regular Shonen battles in HxH too but they are usually only used to solve comparatively little problems like getting rid of low ranking mooks.
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Like, dude, I get that there's definitely a lot of mentions of games and that, but I don't think it's completely right to say that the pattern that arcs in the series use conform to games or to say to someone else that they can't see how game oriented this manga is that they're a lost cause. The original question that brought this up was that "unlike OnePiece there don't seem to be a pattern in HxH's arcs."
Which I agree is a hugely erroneous statement given that I think we can all agree that there are established tropes and traditions that Hunter x Hunter certainly conform to, but while this series certainly uses games quite a bit, I would still disagree that the arc structure of the series does not revolve around games. Certainly, it would be difficult to pin down York New or Chimera Ant as revolving around games, and in your listing of each arc, I would say that those arcs are the ones that stand out as the most difficult to saying that the whole thing is gamey. There are numerous examples of individual conflicts that do certainly revolve around games, but it would be a bit of a stretch to say that the pattern of each arc is dictated by games.
And more on the original point, following certain tropes and stuff isn't a bad thing. You don't have to go crazy like Fairy Tail and have literally the same plot repasted over and over again with slightly different window dressing, but you also don't have to go full on avant garde to prove a point of uniqueness and quality. One Piece doesn't go crazy like Fairy Tail, and certainly there are different basic premises to each arc that don't make each of them a rehash (altho Dressrosa can be argued for Arabasta). If you wanted to, you could distill it to "Luffy and friends go to an island beat up a bad guy organization group," but that kind of robs each arc of the richness each provides to the narrative, such as Skypeia's lost city discovery adventure, Impel Down's Prison escape, or Thriller Bark's Zombie Island expedition. Conversely, while HxH has different settings and overall different larger conflicts per each arc, it's not something necessarily new in terms of story structure or premise. You've got your mafia subplots, your revenge subplots, your fighting tournament arc, your new world arc, your political thrillers, of which regardless of how they end often follow the same drum beats of previous stories.
What HxH and One Piece (and most good action adventure oriented shonen and fantasy in general) both do well isn't reinvent the wheel but create a rich, detailed world for the reader to explore. The initial premise is that you as the reader are coming along on a new adventure to check out the world and see what it has to offer. They suck you in because it invites your imagination to come along for the ride along with the protagonists to explore exotic locales, meet shady friends and antagonists, and see something grand when you piece everything in the world together as something that's greater than simply the sum of their parts.
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"I am talking about romantic comedies (lol). But well, I am too old to write for that genre, and besides, I also think it would be best if I left the drawing to another person. Just as the manga last year for which I only wrote the script (Akuten Wars, illustrated by Hachi Mizuno), if having another person draw the pictures makes for a better work of art, I have absolutely no objections to it. I also thought that I would have liked a more realistic artstyle to go with Level E anyway. Depending on the genre, I really think that I can legit just be the scriptwriter."
Imagine the characteristic worldbuilding that only Togashi can do, brought to life by an artist who can best realize its potential. The day where we can see one such work after another might not be too far away.
–This is also a worthy thing to note. I would be into it way more than HxH.
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"Still, that aside, I need to finish writing Hunter X Hunter. It has come to a point where either the story concludes first, or I die before that happens (lol). But I do intend to finish it. Although you can say that at one point in the story – where Gon meets Ging -- I have completed the story once. I believe that some readers must have thought 'Wasn't that supposed to be the endgame?' and I did write it to seem that way. Still, I did not intend to cut off the flow of the story there, and I hope my readers could see that there was still room for continuation. As a reader of Jump myself, I also remember having thought 'Shouldn't this manga have just ended here?' and feeling pissed when it went on and on. I want to always be in touch with that feeling as a reader. But Hunter X Hunter as it is now has a lot in it that makes me want to keep on reading, even from my own perspective as a reader. And from my perspective as a writer, there are still many things in it left that I want to write, that I would enjoy writing. And so if anyone would be willing to enjoy this ride with me, that is all I can hope for.""
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Gin appearance was the weirdest thing in the manga. It was damn uneventful and without any weight to it.
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I genuinely think he was ready to end the series there. Like he says, he even considers it an end to the story in a way.
I'm glad that he seems excited to tell the story though. He seems to have gotten over his writer's fatigue and judging from his statement here, it seems he's being drawn into the world he created again.
The moment where the one prince was figuring out his teleportation powers was imo a snippet into Togashi's thought process when coming up with his powers. Which just makes me excited.
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I do enjoy reading his interviews because he usually seems to give honest answers.
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Ending the story with Gon and Gin on the top of that tree with the mention of a whole continent bigger than the world that we know sounds like the ending of a series that got axed after 40-50 chapters.
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It's a series that after 19/20 years has the chapter count of a 7 years series.
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It's a series that after 19/20 years has the chapter count of a 7 years series.
Yet quality of those chapters destroy all but very few +500 chapter mangas
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I'm not doing this dance.
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[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/NlSXRLE.jpg[/qimg]
I'm not doing this dance.
If art and work ethics are priorities to you then Hiro Mashima of Fairy Tail must be greatest mangaka of history to you…
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If art and work ethics are priorities to you then Hiro Mashima of Fairy Tail must be greatest mangaka of history to you…
They aren't the only important things, but to pretend things like consistency don't matter is ridiculous.
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Togashi's work ethic is one of the those things that cannot be defended. I do genuinely believe he has some health issue but his work ethic…:getlost:
!
When we started the Dark Continent arc, Oda was somewhere in Punk Hazard arc.
The DC arc hasn't even ended & Oda has already completed 4 arcs in that time frame.
The anime finished nearly 4 years ago & we still don't have one arc worth of material.
Let that sink in.I like that Togashi is self-aware that he might drop dead before this series end. Now if only he does something about it…
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They aren't the only important things, but to pretend things like consistency don't matter is ridiculous.
It Doesn't matter! Is Berserk trash series because it's only bi-monthly? Is Song of Ice and Fire waste of paper because
George R.R Martin spends +6 years for each book? I do not care about how much content creator spews, Quality >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Quantity all and every time in every consumer media.I would have single Kotor quality game over 10 yearly cod/FIFA games
I would have 5 chapters of HxH instead of 300 Fairy tail chapters
One excellent and amazing movie over 30 forgettable mediocre ones.It does NOT matter how much stuff you produce if it does have quality to stay in memories.
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Togashi's work ethic is one of the those things that cannot be defended. I do genuinely believe he has some health issue but his work ethic…:getlost:
! [qimg]http://www.funmanga.com/uploads/chapters/3041/183/p_00011.png[/qimg]
When we started the Dark Continent arc, Oda was somewhere in Punk Hazard arc.
The DC arc hasn't even ended & Oda has already completed 4 arcs in that time frame.
The anime finished nearly 4 years ago & we still don't have one arc worth of material.
Let that sink in.Ended? The Dark Continent arc hasn't even STARTED yet. We're still travelling to that arc.
Kinda like Berserk's endless quest to get to fairy island, but they managed that eventually.
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Dark Continent *saga then. I count from chapter 340 onwards. Point is we only have 40 chapters in the span of 6 years…
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It Doesn't matter! Is Berserk trash series because it's only bi-monthly? Is Song of Ice and Fire waste of paper because
George R.R Martin spends +6 years for each book? I do not care about how much content creator spews, Quality >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Quantity all and every time in every consumer media.There is a line between "good art takes the time it takes"
and
"maybe if he can't hit the schedule of a weekly series anymore he should switch his format to a monthly"
and
"the creator is being lazy and maybe he should have ended it a while ago."These are not all equal things, nor are they all the same judgement.
Given that Togashi has been perfectly content to let through scribble art on multiple occassions, including the tanks, and how many times he just fills his chapters with text instead of using the actual strengths of the manga format, that discredits him from the "good art takes the time it takes" excuse.
He has assistants now that do almost all the background and most of the background characters, but still can't make the weekly schedule, and refuses to switch to a monthly.
It's been said time and time and time again, we don't care if it takes a while, just be consistent at TELLING us when the next set of chapters is going to hit and how long they will last. If we knew it was going to be 10 chapters, followed by a 3 month break, and then another 10 chapters, that would be fine. That little bit of courtesy would go a very, very long way. But the current schedule is, maybe 6 chapters, maybe 8, 10 tops, and then a break of a couple months or maybe two years, who knows? And THAT is not acceptable.
Absolutely no one gives Oda any crap for only doing three chapters a month now. And no one seriously complains about Berserk because you look at the art and you can tell Muira is putting 20 hours of work into every pages, so it just takes 5 or 6 weeks to do a chapter and that's just a little slower than any magazine schedule can accommodate, but you can tell he's working the entire time he's on hiatus, and not just taking year long vacations and then crapping something out at the last minute. They moved him to a monthly schedule and he had regular output for like 8 chapters straight, but still just a little too slow to stay ahead. (Similarly, I assume Oda spends 8 or 9 days on a chapter so that it's less stressful and gets a little more freetime than he used to, rather than working for three weeks then doing a weekly vacation.)
Game of Thrones? 1200 page novels with hundreds of characters do in fact take the time they take… but that's industry standard for the giant fantasy novel crowd. Most big fantasy installments take two, three, five years between volumes. Wheel of Time, Assassin's Apprentice, Earthsea, Dune, Diskworld, Pern, Amber Chronicles, Shannara, Dirzzt, Narnia, you names it. Even Brandon Sanderson, the most proliic fastest writer in the industry only gets out one of the really big books every three years. (Though he does little books inbetween.) Patrick Rothfuss' Kingkiller volume 3 is also on its 6th year of wait like GoT and no one mentions it. GoT mostly gets flak because the HBO show caught up and got ahead of it. Lord of the Rings took 22 years. And even Steven King'd Dark Tower series took 25 years, and he absolutely rushed the ending of that after he almost died in a car accident.
A novel, especially a 1200 page one, is not the same as a weekly or monthly action comic.
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Patrick Rothfuss Kingkiller books are my absolute favourites…. I hope we can get next book in 2019