First of all that would techincally fall into ephebophile which is a term originally meant to described those attracted to those between 15-19. So 2 of those years wouldnt even be an issue.
Official Totland Thread
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So can we now officially say that Sanji is a Pedophile. Cuz with the Decuplets being 18 and Big Mom giving birth every year then there's not much room between Pudding and Flambe. At most Pudding is luckily 18 however if the 41st son is revealed as older than Pudding then Pudding is then between 17-16 years old.
=DSanji is 21, Pudding is 17. There is nothing wrong with that
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To be fair, Yuen the 35th Son is between 19 to 18 himself. We only know that he is 9 to 12 months older than the Decuplets. But if Yuen is 18 then Pudding is between 17-16 and if the 41st Son is revealed to be older than Pudding than Pudding is between 16-15 herself.
=D -
You seem way too glad and eager to portray Sanji as a pedophile, for some reason… Pudding has not been portrayed as a minor, at least not younger than 16-17. She is at least Rebecca's age and at best Nami's age (at the beginning of OP). Would you say Nami was not adult enough to have a relationship with Sanji?
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This is a WSJ series, and Sanji believed that this was a wholesome marriage, Pudding is just over 18 or late 17s, born after the decaplets.
After Flampe there is room for 3 little sisters, one of them being Anana (the girl who wanted to kill someone, and big mom just said "everyone has a couple hundred people who they want to kill" or something like that)
Flampe claims to have 41 older brothers, on the chapter where she was missidentified as the 33th daugther, but she's 15, so there is a mystery brother, who I'd rather he'd be the 16 year old brother.
To complete the set, after the 41th brother, there are still 5 unidentified, of them one is the little biker rebel dude, and the other two are these: http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Charlotte_Dolce but I don't remember where their names were revealed. Definitelly they are younger than 15.
The wiki might have made the same math/logic calculations that I did: http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Charlotte_Family#Birth_Order
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Hancock fell in love with a 17 year old Luffy when she was 29 so I don't really see how Sanji and Pudding's dynamic is at all creepy
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I feel like Oda is checking out Charlottes out of the list, and regretting that he didn't spread them out more around the arc.
We have 27 identified boys out of 46, 19 unknown, and 21 identified girls out of 39, 18 unknown.
The wiki claims some extra kids without any confirmation as the littlest charlottes, but I'm not counting them.
Considering how some of the family were in backgrounds from the start of the arc, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the other freaky looking people turn out to be Charlottes as well, like the Magellan looking dude on a meeting around the first assault against the Strawhats.
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We've almost definitely seen several more of the Charlottes, in the wedding and on Cacao Island now, but with inopportune times to name them. There's also the Custard guy who was chasing Bege, he's pretty likely a Charlotte
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One Piece 836: Brulee reffers to Cracker as "Brother", was it as younger brother or older brother?
When Cracker is defeated, he's also reffered as Brother by either Mont'dor or Gallete.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Also, in 845, a few of the Decaplets, Raisin, the long arm girl who was named in the anime, Joscarpone and Mascarpone, and 3 of the Opera full brothers can be clearly seen surrounding the already named siblings. One of Opera's brothers is carrying a girl around, and there are at least other 2 non-chess themed persons in the picture.
845 as well, a few kids were present when Dolce and his twin, and Anana were introduced, including the brat on the tricicle, this is from where the wiki keeps insisting that they are the littlest Charlottes, but either bandage-face is a small 16 years old, the fishteen is a slow grower, or a grandson (or a misscount of oda), as after the 41th son (Pudding's nearest brother that isn't a decaplet) there are only 5 slots, with 3 confirmed charlottes, and in the picture there are 3 unknown kids.
846 there are a few notable people in the vault with Smoothie and Tamago.
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One Piece 836: Brulee reffers to Cracker as "Brother", was it as younger brother or older brother?
When Cracker is defeated, he's also reffered as Brother by either Mont'dor or Gallete.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Also, in 845, a few of the Decaplets, Raisin, the long arm girl who was named in the anime, Joscarpone and Mascarpone, and 3 of the Opera full brothers can be clearly seen surrounding the already named siblings. One of Opera's brothers is carrying a girl around, and there are at least other 2 non-chess themed persons in the picture.
In both Viz-translated chapters, they only call Cracker "brother".
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@Count:
In both Viz-translated chapters, they only call Cracker "brother".
Yah, I'm using that, but that's the clue that the SBS used to know that Katakuri, oven and Daifuku were triplets, so I'm paying atention.
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I would guess Cracker and Brulee are siblings, judging from their purple hair and similar face structure. And being the 10th son/8th daughter, close in order.
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854 and I'm resting; this is the Charlotte's "Opera just fucked us over" meeting, not only the Decaplets, the big headed Nussorte brother (the one that the Vinsmokes took care of) and the like 10th apareance of the long arm girl, but two unknown women, and Mohawk/demon wings dude.
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854 and I'm resting; this is the Charlotte's "Opera just fucked us over" meeting, not only the Decaplets, the big headed Nussorte brother (the one that the Vinsmokes took care of) and the like 10th apareance of the long arm girl, but two unknown women, and Mohawk/demon wings dude.
The longarm girl's name is Myukuru.
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Cool, they answered my question on the podcast, whenever the oficial translation uses "brother" or "sister", they are the younger sibling.
So, Brulee is younger than Cracker, and following the rules of Katakuri-Oven-Daifuku, who call eachother by their name, not his twin.
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To complete the set, after the 41th brother, there are still 5 unidentified, of them one is the little biker rebel dude, and the other two are these: http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Charlotte_Dolce but I don't remember where their names were revealed. Definitelly they are younger than 15.
The wiki might have made the same math/logic calculations that I did: http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Charlotte_Family#Birth_Order
Well mathematically speaking Big Mom's Oldest child Either Compote or Perospero is 50 and if their twins then 49 and Big Mom's Youngest child is no less than 7. Since Big Mom started giving birth at either 18 or 19 and stopped at either 60 or 61.
@Kaido:
Hancock fell in love with a 17 year old Luffy when she was 29 so I don't really see how Sanji and Pudding's dynamic is at all creepy
U didn't think that was creepy. She's a grown woman! And Luffy might've look 17 but he was operating with the mind of a 7 yr old.
@S.C.:
I would guess Cracker and Brulee are siblings, judging from their purple hair and similar face structure. And being the 10th son/8th daughter, close in order.
I would think Cracker is closer in age to Lola and Chiffon since Pound thought that he might've birthed Cracker.
=D -
U didn't think that was creepy. She's a grown woman! And Luffy might've look 17 but he was operating with the mind of a 7 yr old.
Not really
I would think Cracker is closer in age to Lola and Chiffon since Pound thought that he might've birthed Cracker.
=DThat was a bad translation - Pound was saying he was basically like Cracker's father, he knows which children he conceived. Plus there was only one set of males born between Cracker and the 48 year old triplets.
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I think it is very likely Oda will release a family tree at one point
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Oda should create a color spread of the Charlotte Family like the Marines in the Film Z color spread.
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So are the three parts about Sanji or Pudding or about different aspects of the arc? Also are the part just chronological factor or do you deal with different aspects?
Nah Part 2 was mostly focusing on them just broke into three parts because of length.
Part 1 which was on page 46 was more so giving background on the family (how they are structured, there dynamic, what they are about, how they dealt with their black sheep, how they are alike).
Part 3 would be bringing it back to the family particularly how both families will be changed this arc and how I think this arc will end.
@Count:
Oda should create a color spread of the Charlotte Family like the Marines in the Film Z color spread.
Or do a HxH style page that shows all the connections like with the Kurapika family
But I would love a color spread.
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Hope U all enjoy my current version of the Big Mom family tree. I've listed the Big Mom Members by birth year to try and figure out their ages. This is based on how i see the Charlotte Family. So I may have a character as older than another character u thought them younger than. Let me know if I have any real problems on it.
1 Perospero age 50
2 Compote age 49
3 Katakuri & Twins age 48
4 [2nd Daugther] age 47
5 Opera & Twins age 46
6 Cracker age 45
7 Amande age 44
8 ??[4-7 Daughters] age 43
9 ??[11-15 Sons] age 42
10 Brulee' age 41
11 Moscato age 40
12 ??[9-13 Daughters] age 39
13 ??[17-18 Sons] age 38
14 ??[9-13 Daughters] age 37
15 Mont D'or age 36
16 Smoothie age 35
17 Citron age 34
18 Cinnamon age 33
19 ??[20-24 Sons] age 32
20 Snack age 31
21 Bavarois age 30
22 ?? [17th Daughter] age 29
23 Galette & Boire age 28
24 Praline age 27
25 Chiffon & Lola age 26
26 ??[24-26 Daughters] age 25
27 Brownie age 24
28 Joconode age 23
29 Raisin age 22
30 [28th Daughter] age 21
31 Mascarpone & Joscarpone age 20
32 Yuen age 19
33 Dectuplets age 18
34 Pudding age 17
35 [41st Son] age 16
36 Flambe age 15
37 ?? Age 14
38 ?? Age 13
39 ?? Age 12
40 ?? Age 11
41 ?? Age 10
42?? Age 9=D
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Nice, the thing is that:
There is a high posibility of Amande having full sisters. Don't remember wich thread, but in the chapters where they are preparing to off the Vinsmokes, a bunch of Charlottes hold the guns around them, and there are two long necked ladies, and one is just "flat faced amande", and the other is like Citron (or Cinamon, the thin one) but Longneck instead of longleg.
The strong implication that the Smoothie Squad are full sisters, (they were born consecutivelly and are all Long legs)
There are slight hints on the volume 88 character presentation page that Amande is older than the Opera 5 and Cracker.
But there was a hint that Montd'or is older than Smoothie there, but that goes against what was stated in the manga, that Montd'or called her "Big Sister" and she called him just "Montd'or", on the chapter that Big Mom starts her rampage.
The naming between siblings has been the strongest hint about birth orders that we have got, I'm willing to take that over the character pages.
Also, a mistake, Big Mom had 43 husbands, the implication is that she had 43 pregnancies, even if she just had 42 years of "continuos pregnancies" and if she was pregnant for 9 months always, and having like 2 months between pergnancies, that leaves room for almost 46 pregnancies possible. The most that the time between births could have been is 11 months and 3 weeks.
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I doubt BM had multiple pregnancies from the same father, based on how she treated Pound after Lola and Chiffon were born. She probably gets pregnant once, manage to get a heir from the current husband and then dispatch him.
So kids from the same father, like Smoothie, Citron and Cinnamon, probably are always twins.
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@.access:
I doubt BM had multiple pregnancies from the same father, based on how she treated Pound after Lola and Chiffon were born. She probably gets pregnant once, manage to get a heir from the current husband and then dispatch him.
So kids from the same father, like Smoothie, Citron and Cinnamon, probably are always twins.
I realize this people. I would just prefer if they weren't twins and didn't feel like writing 20-24 sons 2 extra times.
=D -
Has this question already been put forth by anybody: Will we see all remaining Charlotte family members? :wassat:
Seems a little bit much for the finale…
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@Big:
Has this question already been put forth by anybody: Will we see all remaining Charlotte family members? :wassat:
Seems a little bit much for the finale…
At this point, yes. The question is if Oda will name all of them in the manga itself and not with SBS additions.
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I want a musical number naming them all like Yakko’s Nations of the World.
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It'll be more manageable considering that we've already seen a lot of Charlottes at the wedding. I hope a databook comes out soon; that seems like the easiest way to identify all the kids.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Also, a mistake, Big Mom had 43 husbands, the implication is that she had 43 pregnancies, even if she just had 42 years of "continuos pregnancies" and if she was pregnant for 9 months always, and having like 2 months between pergnancies, that leaves room for almost 46 pregnancies possible. The most that the time between births could have been is 11 months and 3 weeks.
Technically, giving birth 43 times over 42 years is accurate if you measure the timespan between Perospero's birth and the youngest kid's birth.
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@Big:
Has this question already been put forth by anybody: Will we see all remaining Charlotte family members? :wassat:
Seems a little bit much for the finale…
They all were designed, and we have seen a lot in the background before being identified. Like Nusorte, panda girl, the decaplets and yuen
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So has anyone figured out which food Lola's name was based on yet?
=D -
I always go back to Lollipop.
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So has anyone figured out which food Lola's name was based on yet?
=DIt was based on Oda not having decided on a naming scheme for the BM pirates way back in Thriller Bark.
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Well, Lola rhymes with Chocolat (french pronounciation) and she was the minister of Chocolate. That's my guess
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The naming between siblings has been the strongest hint about birth orders that we have got, I'm willing to take that over the character pages.
Also, a mistake, Big Mom had 43 husbands, the implication is that she had 43 pregnancies, even if she just had 42 years of "continuos pregnancies" and if she was pregnant for 9 months always, and having like 2 months between pergnancies, that leaves room for almost 46 pregnancies possible. The most that the time between births could have been is 11 months and 3 weeks.Or Oda just plays around with the length of pregnancy for Linlin just as he had Portgas D. Rouge being able to carry Ace for 20 months (!)…
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Yo boys! Like I did with Luffy vs Doffy, here is a compilation of Luffy vs Katakuri full fight. I took the liberty to use jaimini's box scans.
Hope you like the little editing I did to skip most of the non fighting related segments.
Monkey D Luffy vs Charlotte Katakuri
And the other I did if you missed it. (using mangastream scans).
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So what grade do you guys give this fight?
I'd say an A-, the minus because the lack of the final hit being shown and luffy looking a bit too outmatched at times. I loved the choreography and character interactions though
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@Long:
So what grade do you guys give this fight?
I'd say an A-, the minus because the lack of the final hit being shown and luffy looking a bit too outmatched at times. I loved the choreography and character interactions though
A- sounds about right. Any minor complaints I may have had just feel irrelevant due to how the fight ended. I really loved that small gesture of putting his hat on Katakuri's face.
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@Long:
So what grade do you guys give this fight?
I'd say an A-, the minus because the lack of the final hit being shown and luffy looking a bit too outmatched at times. I loved the choreography and character interactions though
C+ or B-
One good chapter doesn't make a good fight. And aside from the previous chapter they were ok/decent at their best.
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A fight all the way. We get presented with three(count em THREE) possible counters/weaknesses to Katakuri's abilities and none of them are used to outright win.
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- Jimbei tells us water keeps Katakuri's mochi from being sticky!
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- When Katakuri's concentration is off he can't use Observation as proficiently.
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- Luffy concludes that he could just keep going until Kata's Haki runs out.
So glad that Oda didn't go with any of those as end all solutions.
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I'd give it a B+. It was really enjoyable to read, but the lack of a strong emotional reason to fight, which is present in nearly every Luffy fight, makes it stand a bit down for me. Plus, the fact that it was a bit too one sided was a little awkward. But the choreography was beautiful. Katakuri's abilities and constant creative use of his fruit were incredible. Luffy improving as the fight went on was great as well. Snakeman was kind of underwhelming too, for me. I actually think the first sentence I wrote applies to this entire arc: very enjoyable to read, but no strong emotional reason to delve into stops it from being a top arc.
Oh, and Flampe appeared in the middle. Ugh. :getlost:
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Luffy vs Katakuri is B+ to A- for me. I just love what Oda did with Katakuri's Mochi abilities - creative, entertaining and just awesome all around. Katakuri turning into a donut himself to gain momentum for the Diced Mochi attack is the greatest thing ever. Not too sold on the ending though, but I appreciate Oda taking a different route than the usual.
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Especially after seeing the Imgur, an easy A.
I gotta point out how much I love this arc. The only part I didn't enjoy was the early seducing forest stuff, which was a bit repetitive and obvious, but once the Cracker fight started, I've been hooked on every part of it. From the wedding and chase around Tottoland, to the Germa drama and Pudding betrayal. Brook showing his stuff multiple times, Jinbe helping the straw hats escape from jail, Big Mom's flashback, and of course Luffy vs Katakuri. To me, it's all been fantastic!
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The only good plot point to remark is that Luffy spend like 6 chaps trying to get FS and finally didn't obtain it.
That is a good thing to happen for a shonen, it truly shows Oda's respect for Katakuri as human rather than a character from a story.
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@Shobu:
The only good plot point to remark is that Luffy spend like 6 chaps trying to get FS and finally didn't obtain it.
He did obtain it.
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If he didn't, there would have been no reason for him to wait this long to use Snakeman.
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@Kaido:
He did obtain it.
If he didn't, there would have been no reason for him to wait this long to use Snakeman.
Speech of Rayleight and usual CoO like at the colosseum.
Nothing new.Snake-man is fast, the way to beat the aura reading-speed of a person. That's why he used it.
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@Shobu:
Speech of Rayleight and usual CoO like at the colosseum.
Nothing new.It is new because he's been using COO this whole fight. But since Katakuri has FS Luffy hadn't been able to dodge as well before.
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! Here we have Luffy attempting to dodge the same attack, but failing because he wasn't yet capable enough. So for him to successfully pull off dodging the attack, and get hits in on Katakuri (which he did before he activated Snakeman), that confirms his Haki is on the same level as Kata's. Especially given that Kata himself indicates Luffy being able to match him is indicative of future sight:
Snake-man is fast, the way to beat the aura reading-speed of a person. That's why he used it.
My point was that if speed alone was enough for Luffy to get hits in on Katakuri, then he should have used Snakeman at the start of the fight, instead of trying to improve his Haki.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Yo boys! Like I did with Luffy vs Doffy, here is a compilation of Luffy vs Katakuri full fight. I took the liberty to use jaimini's box scans.
Hope you like the little editing I did to skip most of the non fighting related segments.
Monkey D Luffy vs Charlotte Katakuri
And the other I did if you missed it. (using mangastream scans).
Enjoyed this a lot more than I had thought I would. Thanks!
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@Kaido:
It is new because he's been using COO this whole fight. But since Katakuri has FS Luffy hadn't been able to dodge as well before.
! https://i2.wp.com/jaiminisbox.com/reader/content/comics/one-piece-2_58650da78040f/891-0-they-believe-in-me_5a69d69d41628/07.png?quality=100&strip=all
! Here we have Luffy attempting to dodge the same attack, but failing because he wasn't yet capable enough. So for him to successfully pull off dodging the attack, and get hits in on Katakuri (which he did before he activated Snakeman), that confirms his Haki is on the same level as Kata's. Especially given that Kata himself indicates Luffy being able to match him is indicative of future sight:
https://i2.wp.com/jaiminisbox.com/reader/content/comics/one-piece-2_58650da78040f/891-0-they-believe-in-me_5a69d69d41628/10-11_1.png?quality=100&strip=allMy point was that if speed alone was enough for Luffy to get hits in on Katakuri, then he should have used Snakeman at the start of the fight, instead of trying to improve his Haki.
So, for your point… Sanji got FS because he dodged Katakuri's bullet?
If Oda wants to make us clear that Luffy learned and used FS, why don't you put an advance speech based on Katakuri's future words??
From Mantra battles we understood that CoO checks attacks before being made thanks to thoughts, now CoO checks body's aura from every intent of an attack, finally if Katakuri himself says that Luffy got FS from a fistbump; for Katakuri it means that the image he saw was a possible weakness from Luffy to connect a hit, and for Luffy it means that he saw that future, and then checked another future to connect, but saw that he couldn't avoid Katakuri's hit and decided to counter it... both increasing their future sights into fistbumps and loses from Luffy without Snakeman, for Oda to make us believe that this is completely new and was never done before.It's the same as normal CoO, i commend your efforts Kaidou, but you're defending a flawed system... CoO can be overcomed with speed, if ppl at One Piece can hide their auras being put into attacks... i can perfectly sure and supportive of CoO overcoming CoO, but that doesn't happens.
You ask me about why Snakeman wasn't used first... i can tell you why... because Oda had to change Katakuri's integrity from a Charlotte pirate into a battle lover, Katakuri is likely two times as stronger than Luffy, he can surpass any Luffy's attack used on him, how Oda made such character being defeated against someone the half as strong as Luffy? Putting him on his level, ofc.
Luffy's Willpower, check. Luffy's Endurance, check. Katakuri stopping the use of Awakening to huge amounts of Mochi, check. Katakuri throwing Mogura away, check. Katakuri first said that he wouldn't understimate Luffy, problem there. Distraction and adding wounds on Luffy thanks to a third party, solving the first problem. Rayleight's teachings, check. Katakuri accepting the challenge of Gear Fourth, check. Snake-man to bring unpredictability to Katakuri, check.
Katakuri hits on Luffy: 40 (guessing)
Luffy hits on Katakuri: 8 (guessing)My point with all of this is that Oda wanted us to believe that after Rayleigh's words, the introduction of a new Gear Fourth mode and the also new disposition of Katakuri's knighthood would make a strong point in our brains to let pass his previous words to describe CoO and accept this new ones with also an space in our memories with an honorable defeat of the mighty one in charge of holding all the important skills of One Piece.
That, it doesn't works for me. I discredit Oda as a storyteller on this very aspect, if he says that Katakuri acknowledges Luffy for obtaining FS, showing the very same shit that our previous knowledgeable words to describe old CoO serves as well, it doesn't works for me.
If he wants to prove that Luffy got FS, put him to check aura on speeches, if he puts him again to prove FS into a fight, it really would make this more deplorable than it is.
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If Oda wants to make us clear that Luffy learned and used FS, why don't you put an advance speech based on Katakuri's future words??
He did.
894 .
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He did.
894 .
You mean… this:
If it is that, i see Luffy talking alone. Unless he really replies Katakuri, admitting that he's so weak that he has already showed everything he's got.
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Luffy is replying to Katakuri and after that we saw again Katakuri saying something like this "an answer would be pointless because you already know what I'm going to say". Not this exact words, but with that meaning. Therefore, Oda already showed us more than once, that Luffy can use future sight.