@uniaka:
Not to forget that nami had the power to disperse the clouds and doflamingo would fall i n water defeated because he needs clouds to fly. If only nami knew, dressrosa would be one short arc!
Did anyone else call BS on that when they first heard it? As if non-solid things like clouds could hold anything with weight to allow Doflamingo to Spider-Man across the open ocean.
Did anyone else call BS on that when they first heard it? As if non-solid things like clouds could hold anything with weight to allow Doflamingo to Spider-Man across the open ocean.
To be honest, I felt Doflamingo's entire power was used pretty liberally. It was far too hax for my liking. Bird cage can't be cut with armament haki? Wasn't that the whole point of armament? Stitching multiple organs where tears continuously appear? holding onto clouds was actually within the realm of one piece reason; seeing islands such as skypiea where you could walk on clouds. A bit far-fetched but still doable.
Doflamingo's character and power just felt all over the place for me and I didn't understand what Oda was doing with him.
jinbei and Brook are my heroes in this chapter
Colorspread is nice, but seeing Carrot getting cozy with Luffy with no reaction from Hancock seems like a missed opportunity to me. Oh well.
Linlin is great in this chapter, she's like a Terminator or Michael Myers. Sure the protagonists can gain some distance from her, but they're just delaying the inevitable. It's clear as it stands now, that they're outmatched and what we're seeing is just a game of cat and mouse. I think the way Linlin is portrayed here is a good example of showcasing an unstoppable force, without making the protagonists look like pushovers.
I liked the detail about Linlin rejecting the idea that her son would lie to her. That was interesting, suggests she doesn't actually want to kill Perospero. This demonstrates the power and influence Perospero's words have as the eldest son in the Charlotte Family too. Doesn't do him any favors at the moment, but still good to know.
Did anyone else call BS on that when they first heard it? As if non-solid things like clouds could hold anything with weight to allow Doflamingo to Spider-Man across the open ocean.
This aspect of his powers didn't bother me, I actually thought it was kind of cool. Still there were too many overwhelming properties regarding the string themselves that weren't explained that left me really disappointed.
The bird cage being an absolute indestructible force of nature was one but it was Parasite that really rubbed me the wrong way. I still don't understand how or why more characters with a name beyond Bellamy and Luffy didn't actually get controlled. Like why didn't Doffy try to take control of Law or Luffy earlier? No one in the series actually broke Doffy's strings until Luffy Ballooned up in 4th Gear. I just wish their durability or weaknesses were actually touched upon with some concrete dialogue.
Hello all exploring AP!!!
CHC here, bringing the latest in the chapter review, the link at the bottom will cover the following;
One Piece Manga Chapter 890 Review
In this weeks review we cover;
Whole cake island coming to an end?!
Jinbei body shots Big Mom!
Jinbie vs Big Mom 1 on 1!
Big Mom's new sword technique using Napoleon!
Jinbei manifests haki!
Does Jinbei have conquerors haki?
Big Mom wrecks Thousand Sunny!
How strong is Jinbei?!
Was Big Mom weakened?
Nami attempts to manipulate Zeus!
Brook takes the hit!
Brook vs Big Mom 1 on 1!
Brook's famous words!
Brook takes out Zeus with a new move!
Nami threatens Zeus!
Will Zeus play a integral part in their escape?!
Peros Pero foreshadowed to die?!
All crew mates will help to breakdown the Yonkou Big Mom!
Please see video below…Enjoy!
Did anyone else call BS on that when they first heard it? As if non-solid things like clouds could hold anything with weight to allow Doflamingo to Spider-Man across the open ocean.
I'm actually cool with that. It makes no sense in a scientific sense, but it works in a cartoony logical way because it's like how a marionette puppet has strings attached to a controller above them. I can buy into Doflamingo's strings having the quirky ability of sticking to anything like spider webs on steroids. It's quirky, I love it.
It was Parasite (in how Doflamingo conveniently never used it on Luffy or Law), Birdcage (moreso as a plot element), and Doflamingo's Awakening that bothered me. His Awakening converting the environment into strings somehow creating tentacles is always going to look stupid and bland to me. Also unnecessary because Doflamingo's strings were overpowered as hell in the first place and didn't need a power-up on top of that.
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
@Count:
It was Parasite (in how Doflamingo conveniently never used it on Luffy or Law), Birdcage (moreso as a plot element), and Doflamingo's Awakening that bothered me. His Awakening converting the environment into strings somehow creating tentacles is always going to look stupid and bland to me. Also unnecessary because Doflamingo's strings were overpowered as hell in the first place and didn't need a power-up on top of that.
I felt like his clones would have been better explained with awakening instead of 'turn everything around me into strings'. It didn't have a punch to it. I feel that Oda missed the opportunity for a 2v2 tag-team with Law and Luffy vs Doflamingo and clone!Doflamingo. I'd really like more team-fights like we had in this chapter or the strawhats vs Oars. Doflamingo was a mixed bag villain; some things were executed well but so damn many missed opportunities.
Speaking of this chapter, in another forum I saw someone point out that BM was not using armament when she pushed Jimbei. Her arms wasn't blackened and the sharp part of the sword was white. That is some monstrous strength if she really wasn't using haki.
I felt like his clones would have been better explained with awakening instead of 'turn everything around me into strings'. It didn't have a punch to it. I feel that Oda missed the opportunity for a 2v2 tag-team with Law and Luffy vs Doflamingo and clone!Doflamingo. I'd really like more team-fights like we had in this chapter or the strawhats vs Oars. Doflamingo was a mixed bag villain; some things were executed well but so damn many missed opportunities.
Speaking of this chapter, in another forum I saw someone point out that BM was not using armament when she pushed Jimbei. Her arms wasn't blackened and the sharp part of the sword was white. That is some monstrous strength if she really wasn't using haki.
Oh damnit, I forgot the string clones. Now THAT was asinine. But I also REALLY like the idea of having a string clone be Doflamingo's Awakening as it would fall in line with his puppeteer theme. Yeah, I would have preferred a team fight with Doflamingo too, but Luffy always has to save the day. For some reason.
Reminds me of when overdosed Hody's teeth bit through Luffy's skin while he used Armament. As awful as I think Armament's execution has been, I like sometimes getting a reminder that its strength is relative to the already existent power of the user.
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
@Count:
Oh damnit, I forgot the string clones. Now THAT was asinine. But I also REALLY like the idea of having a string clone be Doflamingo's Awakening as it would fall in line with his puppeteer theme. Yeah, I would have preferred a team fight with Doflamingo too, but Luffy always has to save the day. For some reason.
Reminds me of when overdosed Hody's teeth bit through Luffy's skin while he used Armament. As awful as I think Armament's execution has been, I like sometimes getting a reminder that its strength is relative to the already existent power of the user.
I'm curious about your issue with Armament?
Check out my podcast for conversations about Greatness in anime, sports, music, and whatever else we can think of.
I'm curious about your issue with Armament?
Mainly how it has its own vague arbitrary power level system (prime example being Zoro and Pica's final clash), how it can supposedly run out and needs time to charge (and this only ever happens with Luffy's Gear Fourth usage, nothing else), the power creep it puts on Luffy's base stats and other pre-timeskip characters, how it reduced the old creativity of Luffy's moveset to just coating his old attacks with black ink post-timeskip, the inconsistencies in characters using invisible or colored Armament Haki sparking debates over nothing, and how rare Haki was pre-timeskip compared to how common it is post-timeskip.
I really don't like Armament Haki. In fact, I don't like Haki as a whole when you also look at how Observation Haki never comes into play or else it would be too overpowered and how useless Conquerer's Haki is aside from building hype from knocking out fodder. Although I did like how Observation was used in Skypiea and understand that something like Armament would be valuable against Logias like Akainu and Kizaru as it's hard to always work in a nearby environmental weakness. I wish that Armament Haki was used solely for hitting Logias and as a means of desperate defense, not as an amp for attacks. Like how Jinbe only sparingly uses it for his Sharkskin move this chapter to block Big Mom's attack.
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
Her arms wasn't blackened and the sharp part of the sword was white. That is some monstrous strength if she really wasn't using haki.
Maybe but the invisible Haki and Koka(Hardening) are two different things.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Count:
and how rare Haki was pre-timeskip compared to how common it is post-timeskip.
Actually this was just meant to parallel how rare Devil Fruits were in the Blue Seas compared to the Grandline.
I really don't like Armament Haki. In fact, I don't like Haki as a whole when you also look at how Observation Haki never comes into play or else it would be too overpowered and how useless Conquerer's Haki is aside from building hype from knocking out fodder.
This I completely agree with. I understand the purpose of Haki and what it's supposed to represent thematically, but it's so underdeveloped as a concept I can't help but be frustrated about it. Oda seriously needs to flesh out the damn ability already.
Sigh…... I'm not gunna continue to bitch and complain, but well yeah....
Watching Mama tear down Adam's wood effortlessly was shocking. I wonder if the ship will receive any further damage. So far the deck, the sails have been damaged. Maybe the front. Also her statement about killing Perospero makes me wonder if she will even remember that after she eats the cake. Not only because of the lie becoming truth, but because how she reacted to her previous hunger pangs.
Jinbe keeps upstaging himself. Shark skin was perfect. Sea current lifter, and then riding that momentum up into Vagabond drill. With his first move he wets Mama making her a bit weak, puts the fire out and send Mama flying, beautiful execution. With Jinbe onboard I feel the Sunny is going to be safe from now on. It will take at least an emperor to damage the ship.
Not sure how to feel about Jinbe losing an arm. There was a perfect opportunity for him to do so with the roulette. But if it did happen, that just speaks on how hard it is to stop Big Mom. The scene with Nami doing the thumbs up when Brooke is getting electrocuted was amazing. Brooke is just amazing. Nami using Big Mom's ability against her and she just keeps tanking it, relentlessly charging forward. Mama looks more tired about her starvation than anything the Straw Hats did.
Nami acting the witch part. Feeding candy to little children, binding them under her spell. I hope he chooses to be a servant.
I fear that Judge will order Reiju to poison the cake and that Perospero seeing that his lie can become truth, joins the Straw Hats against Germa.
I've been a big proponent of Water Jinbe >> Land Jinbe. I found the perfect quote to back it up. In Impel Down, when they're escaping:
Jinbe "Luffy, let's go! I don't know how good I'll be on land but…"
Luffy "Really? You seem pretty strong." In fact, in MF, that was a "watered down" version of Jinbe. Jinbe in water imo is easily Vista/Jozu level. He's only a Mid Tier (Supernova level) fighter on land.
@Kai:
I've been a big proponent of Water Jinbe >> Land Jinbe. I found the perfect quote to back it up. In Impel Down, when they're escaping:
Jinbe "Luffy, let's go! I don't know how good I'll be on land but…"
Luffy "Really? You seem pretty strong." In fact, in MF, that was a "watered down" version of Jinbe. Jinbe in water imo is easily Vista/Jozu level. He's only a Mid Tier (Supernova level) fighter on land.
We've known since East Blue that Fishmen are a lot stronger in the sea than on land.
Spoiler:
@Kaido:
We've known since East Blue that Fishmen are a lot stronger in the sea than on land.
I know but that's just a general statement. Most people will overlook that. We actually have Jinbe himself stating that he's weaker on land.
@Count:
I wish that Armament Haki was used solely for hitting Logias and as a means of desperate defense, not as an amp for attacks.
This thing you have said: It is a good thing! That would eliminate most of the current issues that Haki brings up. 'Member when antagonists had to think as hard to figure out how to damage Luffy as Luffy had to to figure out how to damage them? I 'member…
Now half of the benefits of Luffy's fruit are nullified. Which is why Oda had to work to specifically reintroduce them with Gear Fourth's "Rubbery Haki". But when you look back at all the Haki'd fights we've seen so far, exactly NONE of them would be any different if the attack-Haki concept had been removed. So what was the point of...GAH! My head!
if prometheus can't damage big mom[flames were on her hair],how on earth zeus can shock her?_.
[remove sunglasses][apply gravel voice] "Mother of God…" [/gravel voice][/remove sunglasses]_
Thats still not a valid point though.
The strawhats didn't have any abilities that could counter Doffy's. That just happens to be the case with BM. It's a matter of circumstance.
Yes they're both way above the strawhats in terms of raw power but the unpredictable interactions between DF abilities combined with BM being weakened by starvation is what kept them alive here.
It’s perfectly valid since it is just Oda to decide uf he wants the crew to do something or not. Or are you pretending he can’t be creative enough to find his heroes a solution to get out of a dire situation in all cases ?
I just look at Armament Haki like a more universal form of Super Saiyan. It's a powerup, plain and simple. But yeah, its variability in how much it boosts one's attack or defense is so ambiguous it's a little irritating, but then it's hard to gauge relative power levels even at fighters' base levels so it hardly matters when you take all that into consideration.
But I think that the fact that Big Mom isn't using it while she's terrorizing them right now and yet can still do what she's doing makes her a legitimate threat for the Straw Hats at their current level no matter how much her body is wasting away from hunger and soul energy deprivation. There's been too many complaints about her being weak but we've already seen a legitimate moment of weakness when she screams about Mother Caramel's picture, this is just a less acute version of that. She is probably the weakest or second weakest of the Yonkou at the moment so it's not like she can't have her cage rattled; besides, her emotional state is so fragile and she treats her kids like such crap, it's not as though we could really expect her to outperform, say, one of the Admirals who we've already seen in action. No one's invincible, so even the Yonkou need a weakness. We already know about Teach's weakness due to his Yami-Yami no Mi drawing in things with a gravitational field which increases the impact with which things strike him, causing greater damage to him than they would normally. Kaido's bound to have a similar weakness, if very minute by comparison.
With regards to the Doflamingo situation, not only did the Straw Hats have no clue how his powers worked, but the main reason that all they did was scream in fear was because Sanji and later Law stepped in before Doflamingo got on the ship. If, say, Zoro or whatnot attacked Big Mom before she got onto the Sunny, and you only saw the crew's reaction to her heading toward them, you might think they were absolutely no match for Big Mom. Sure, not facing Doflamingo prior to that definitely put the Straw Hats at a disadvantage, especially when he was about to punish Sanji; Nami and Brook are only doing this well now because they've had success against Big Mom's homies before. But only having the crew react to something and not having them fight it doesn't do much to portray the outcome of a battle. Law was the only one who knew Doflamingo's abilities and he did decently well in using the environment to his advantage against Doffy, just like the Straw Hats now against Big Mom.
I swear if Big News Morgans is on the ship…
@Count:
Name one redeemable trait of any One Piece villain Luffy has defeated outside of Arlong and Doflamingo in the same arc they are terrorizing. Just one example of basic human decency that isn't merely not being as bad as a future villain.
Enel. Treated men and women equally. :ninja:
Enel. Treated men and women equally. :ninja:
It's sad to read that knowing Sanji and even Oda can't do that.
It’s perfectly valid since it is just Oda to decide uf he wants the crew to do something or not. Or are you pretending he can’t be creative enough to find his heroes a solution to get out of a dire situation in all cases ?
No it's not valid because Oda isn't just coming up with a random scenarios for the strawhats to survive. He's playing into the rules of DFs that he already set up. What works against one DF user might not work against another. They didn't have any counters for Doffy so they fled.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I just look at Armament Haki like a more universal form of Super Saiyan.
That doesn't make any sense though. SS is a transformation. Haki should be compared to Ki, Chakra, Reiatsu, Nen, The Force etc etc. It's the life force manipulation trope.
@Count:
Name one redeemable trait of any One Piece villain Luffy has defeated outside of Arlong and Doflamingo in the same arc they are terrorizing. Just one example of basic human decency that isn't merely not being as bad as a future villain.
uhhh I guess Kuro was like "hey I wasn't planning on killing her whole family!"
No it's not valid because Oda isn't just coming up with a random scenarios for the strawhats to survive. He's playing into the rules of DFs that he already set up. What works against one DF user might not work against another. They didn't have any counters for Doffy so they fled.
Brook can make people sleep, Nami can create illusion, etc…, it’s just Oda didn’t want them to do something or else they could have.
@.access:
I'm seriously considering that possibility at this point. And then Oda will keep us in the dark about what power Luffy developed in that fight until he uses it against Kaido in 3 years or so.
Cant see oda doing something like that after this much of a hypejob for katakuri, likely they've been fighting this whole time and oda will resolve it before sanji gets there or have the fight end due to big mom needing to be delayed from attack both parties. But luffy has got to knock katakuri on his back once, and fast forwarding him to him being like that would short change the fight so far. If oda wanted to get to wano that bad they woukd have split after the box blew up.
Brook can make people sleep, Nami can create illusion, etc…, it’s just Oda didn’t want them to do something or else they could have.
Right except none of that would have produced any effective results. It takes time for his songs to work. Mirages wouldn't have stopped Doffy from attacking etc. The best option was simply to leave.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Count:
Name one redeemable trait of any One Piece villain Luffy has defeated outside of Arlong and Doflamingo in the same arc they are terrorizing. Just one example of basic human decency that isn't merely not being as bad as a future villain.
I forgot to mention this before but: redeemable traits =/= likable characters =/= " The good guys".
I forgot to mention this before but: redeemable traits =/= likable characters =/= " The good guys".
But not having any somehow doesn't make you a bad guy, or at least someone an audience is being made to purely dislike (in terms of supporting their goals) by the story if the main characters hog all of the redeemable traits?
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
@Kaido:
But they couldn't deal with her. Nami dealt with Zeus and was powerless to stop Big Mom from smashing her into the ground. The only thing Chopper did was block one of Big Mom's attacks that was aimed for Nami.
Not to mention doflamingo came outta nowhere whereas theyve had time to "get used" to big mom
No it's not valid because Oda isn't just coming up with a random scenarios for the strawhats to survive. He's playing into the rules of DFs that he already set up. What works against one DF user might not work against another. They didn't have any counters for Doffy so they fled.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
That doesn't make any sense though. SS is a transformation. Haki should be compared to Ki, Chakra, Reiatsu, Nen, The Force etc etc. It's the life force manipulation trope.
Darkened skin/clothes/weapons vs yellow hair (both a form of temporary partial transformation) and both involve conjuring inner power to strengthen oneself? Seems pretty similar to me. Although maybe Kaio-Ken would be more apt.
Chapter will appear online tomorrow/ day after or there will be a break?
Chapter will appear online tomorrow/ day after or there will be a break?
January 12: online chapter
So break? OMG !??!??!
@Count:
But not having any somehow doesn't make you a bad guy, or at least someone an audience is being made to purely dislike (in terms of supporting their goals) by the story if the main characters hog all of the redeemable traits?
All I'm saying is that if "likes" or "dislikes" determine good or evil then the terms themselves are ultimately meaningless labels.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Darkened skin/clothes/weapons vs yellow hair (both a form of temporary partial transformation) and both involve conjuring inner power to strengthen oneself? Seems pretty similar to me.
I have to wonder if you've read anything else besides One Piece. You're talking about Ki, or Nen.
Universal energy sources that anyone can use. Thats what Haki is. The SS transformation is purely genetic and pertains to one species.
All I'm saying is that if "likes" or "dislikes" determine good or evil then the terms themselves are ultimately meaningless labels.
I'm only talking about how they are conventionally used to define "good" and "evil" characters in fiction. And One Piece relies on very conventional tropes and overall storytelling in the action-adventure shonen genre to use those labels. I'm not using One Piece's characterizations to make statements about real life morality. I'm only talking about the manga in and of itself. How Oda likes to write it. There's no need to spin this into a widespread philosophical discussion evaluating the semantics and subjectivism of morality.
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
@Count:
I'm only talking about how they are conventionally used to define "good" and "evil" characters in fiction. And One Piece relies on very conventional tropes and overall storytelling in the action-adventure shonen genre to use those labels. I'm not using One Piece's characterizations to make statements about real life morality. I'm only talking about the manga in and of itself. How Oda likes to write it. There's need to spin this into a widespread philosophical discussion evaluating the semantics and subjectivism of morality.
Alright. I was just explaining that from my perspective the terms are pointless. As the series itself points out that theres no objective heroes/villains. Though I understand why people use the terms as shorthand to describe the antagonists in OP.
Alright. I was just explaining that from my perspective the terms are pointless. As the series itself points out that theres no objective heroes/villains. Though I understand why people use the terms as shorthand to describe the antagonists in OP.
That's fine, I too recognize how those two labels are very generalizing and relative.
The series likes to claim that, but it still does a mediocre job of giving the "villains" enough depth to lend much truth or effort from Oda towards that claim. But yes, it's mainly used as simple shorthand.
I hope there will be an arc where the villain is one of the Impel Down escapees. Resulting in sympathetic characters genuinely hating Luffy for it.
Forum user Bartholemew Bear passed away in a very moving and touching way. I, ARTEMlS, therefore carry on the Will of DArth for good unto its final fulfilment.
I hope there will be an arc where the villain is one of the Impel Down escapees. Resulting in sympathetic characters genuinely hating Luffy for it.
It does make you wonder when those missing Level Six dudes are actually going to show up in the story, besides serving as non-canon antagonists.
@S.C.:
It does make you wonder when those missing Level Six dudes are actually going to show up in the story, besides serving as non-canon antagonists.
Thinking about it, the escapee doesn't even have to be the actual villain. Just being responsible for a sympathetic person hating Luffy.
Like being part of Loki's scheming in Elbaf which will result into a death match similar to Little Garden between Luffy and Elbaf's strongest warrior.
All I'm saying is that if "likes" or "dislikes" determine good or evil then the terms themselves are ultimately meaningless labels.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I have to wonder if you've read anything else besides One Piece. You're talking about Ki, or Nen.
Universal energy sources that anyone can use. Thats what Haki is. The SS transformation is purely genetic and pertains to one species.
Hey, come on, now, no throwing shade or it stops being fun.
I'm just saying they have similar characteristics. Who but the Saiyans were the main focus of DBZ? It's just that OP has a far more diverse cast that doesn't shove characters into the background for the serious moments, so their powerup is more ubiquitous. Still has an empowering effect that's used as often.
@S.C.:
It does make you wonder when those missing Level Six dudes are actually going to show up in the story, besides serving as non-canon antagonists.
That would be too goodto be true.
Hey, come on, now, no throwing shade or it stops being fun.
I'm just saying they have similar characteristics. Who but the Saiyans were the main focus of DBZ? It's just that OP has a far more diverse cast that doesn't shove characters into the background for the serious moments, so their powerup is more ubiquitous. Still has an empowering effect that's used as often.
lol. I wasn't trying to throw shade. I didn't mean for you to take it that way.
It's just that your comparison is way off. Yeah it's "slightly" similar but thats almost like saying Gear 2nd and Haki are the same thing because they're both powerups.
Haki has for more in common with Ki than it does with the super saiyan. There are more characters in DBZ than just the saiyans. And they all amp energy into their fists and sense life forces all without the use of being a super saiyan.
lol. I wasn't trying to throw shade. I didn't mean for you to take it that way.
It's just that your comparison is way off. Yeah it's "slightly" similar but thats almost like saying Gear 2nd and Haki are the same thing because they're both powerups.
Haki has for more in common with Ki than it does with the super saiyan. There are more characters in DBZ than just the saiyans. And they all amp energy into their fists and sense life forces all without the use of being a super saiyan.
I get that it's ki but it behaves like a powerup (Luffy and Vergo, who use it on large parts of their body, are the most similar to an entirely-transformed Super Saiyan, so there aren't a lot of other examples, to be sure) which is what the whole DBZ shtick is all about, so I can't help but look at it like that (i.e. something they spam all the time). Plus Goku once turned his hand as hard as Trunks' sword while they were both Super Saiyans so that was extremely similar to a Haki effect and why I see it so closely related. I get the differences but OP is not DB/DBZ, so I'm just saying that the two enhancement methods are somewhat analogous based on the differences of their respective universes.
I want a successful bounty hunter as a villain one day. Or at least see the process of someone turning in a bounty
Does Blackbeard handing in Ace or Bonney over to the marines count?
Year of Sanji, let's go!
