Gotcha, you just compared a ship to a jet ski.
"Who's driving? - Bob, don't worry he doesn't have a driver's license but he killed it at go karts last week."
Gotcha, you just compared a ship to a jet ski.
"Who's driving? - Bob, don't worry he doesn't have a driver's license but he killed it at go karts last week."
Every single amazonian knows how to use Haki! Every last one! And Sengoku even commented on how powerful Hancock's was at a time before everyone had Haki! It must be a genetic thing inherant to Amazons! And D's, I guess.
…or maybe they're a warrior culture that teaches that stuff from an early age and anyone with the drive can be taught.
@Count:
Sounds almost as ridiculous as Nami learning weather manipulating tricks from old men who control weather like she does.
Sounds almost as ridiculous as Zoro learning swordsmanship from the official greatest swordsman in the world, who nearly killed him that he has sworn to defeat.
Friendly reminder that Chopper still needs his number chapter.~
@K.:
Gotcha, you just compared a ship to a jet ski.
"Who's driving? - Bob, don't worry he doesn't have a driver's license but he killed it at go karts last week."
I'm just trying to give some new examples on top of the ones already used.
Like the one you can find if you just go back 4 chapters and see Nami showing her "amazing navigating skills" as she commands the crew and takes the Merry through impossible odds, awfully similar to Jinbe showing his "amazing steering skills" as he commands the crew and takes the Sunny through impossible odds.
"Who's steering? Blue Bob, don't worry, he used to surf with his friends when they were kids". Pff, what's Oda thinking, am I right?
And if we are talking about similar scenes, instead of going back to Skypiea first chapters, you can move to its end and see Nami navigating (not steering, those were already very different things back then) through a tsunami!
It's pretty obvious that Oda treated navigating at steering as one and the same thing before (until he apparently decided to add someone as the helmsman. Which also questions our notion that Oda had planned everything about the SH crew since the beginning as we like to think). You can just accept that or just do what everybody does and selectively ignore the facts that don't conform to the conclusion you want to defend. But clearly I put way more effort in this post than I ever allow myself to in this kind of discussion, so I'll not keep going with this.
Like Luffy's Thor attacks. Sanji has fire. Luffy has fire. Franky might if you count his explosive abilities, Zoro might learn it, unless it's just cutting fire and not something like Fossa of the Whitebeard crew. Nami has electricity, Luffy does too, Carr…I mean Chopper might get it too. Might be rehashed and repetitive but it's not the strongest argument to go against someone.
You mean Luffy uses electricity with Thor? Even the wiki claims he discharges electricity, while the supposed electricity is there only at the moment of impact and not in any other neighboring panel. It's most likely just impact between hard objects, shown, for example, when Luffy destroyed a Pacifista after TS. Sparks flying.
When Oda draws Luffy's Red Hawk, the changes on his fist are visible prior to impact. The same should be the case for Thor, if it really allowed him to pull lightning out of his ass.
Sorry if I took it wrong.
You mean Luffy uses electricity with Thor? Even the wiki claims he discharges electricity, while the supposed electricity is there only at the moment of impact and not in any other neighboring panel. It's most likely just impact between hard objects, shown, for example, when Luffy destroyed a Pacifista after TS. Sparks flying.
When Oda draws Luffy's Red Hawk, the changes on his fist are visible prior to impact. The same should be the case for Thor, if it really allowed him to pull lightning out of his ass.
Sorry if I took it wrong.
Yeah, the focus is not so much the ability to use the elements just how familiar they might appear to be when comparing the crewmates attacks, especially considering what Carrot has to offer.
@.access:
I'm just trying to give some new examples on top of the ones already used.
Like the one you can find if you just go back 4 chapters and see Nami showing her "amazing navigating skills" as she commands the crew and takes the Merry through impossible odds, awfully similar to Jinbe showing his "amazing steering skills" as he commands the crew and takes the Sunny through impossible odds.
"Who's steering? Blue Bob, don't worry, he used to surf with his friends when they were kids". Pff, what's Oda thinking, am I right?
And if we are talking about similar scenes, instead of going back to Skypiea first chapters, you can move to its end and see Nami navigating (not steering, those were already very different things back then) through a tsunami!
It's pretty obvious that Oda treated navigating at steering as one and the same thing before (until he apparently decided to add someone as the helmsman. Which also questions our notion that Oda had planned everything about the SH crew since the beginning as we like to think). You can just accept that or just do what everybody does and selectively ignore the facts that don't conform to the conclusion you want to defend. But clearly I put way more effort in this post than I ever allow myself to in this kind of discussion, so I'll not keep going with this.
Blue Bob who used to surf with his friends when they were kids hahaha
@.access:
I'm just trying to give some new examples on top of the ones already used.
But you admitted you hadn't been reading, so how do you know they are appropriate? And, I was just trying to make a joke the same way you did with the stewardess.
Like the one you can find if you just go back 4 chapters and see Nami showing her "amazing navigating skills" as she commands the crew and takes the Merry through impossible odds, awfully similar to Jinbe showing his "amazing steering skills" as he commands the crew and takes the Sunny through impossible odds.
And if we are talking about similar scenes, instead of going back to Skypiea first chapters, you can move to its end and see Nami navigating (not steering, those were already very different things back then) through a tsunami!
I am not sure what you are giving examples of. All these examples prove that Nami is an excellent navigator. She is so good that she predicts when and where bad weather is going to happen. She is pretty good at avoiding big storms and weather disasters. But you see that when she cannot avoid these scenarios she is not usually holding the wheel. Funny though, when going up the knocked up stream no one was holding a wheel. A clear sign that Oda was telling us: this position is irrelevant.
"Who's steering? Blue Bob, don't worry, he used to surf with his friends when they were kids". Pff, what's Oda thinking, am I right?
I know it's pretty clever huh, that he used surfing knowledge and the fact that Fishmen obviously are great at it to compliment his skills as a helmsman.
It's pretty obvious that Oda treated navigating at steering as one and the same thing before (until he apparently decided to add someone as the helmsman. Which also questions our notion that Oda had planned everything about the SH crew since the beginning as we like to think). You can just accept that or just do what everybody does and selectively ignore the facts that don't conform to the conclusion you want to defend.
But what is the conclusion I am trying to defend? I never even said that Oda had it planned from the start. The only ~conclusion~ I was making is that personally, if the Grand Line is as dangerous as it is supposed to be, the three crew positions that were needed to keep the ship in good shape were: navigator, shipwright and helmsman.
This is an expectation built since chapter one, with the description that only Gol D. Roger had conquered the seas and that Luffy wanted 10 crew members. That's why I am hoping that Oda utilizes Jimbe and Nami and everyone in their respective positions at least once or twice when traveling between islands.
But clearly I put way more effort in this post than I ever allow myself to in this kind of discussion, so I'll not keep going with this.
That's Kool and the Gang.
@.access:
I'm just trying to give some new examples on top of the ones already used.
Like the one you can find if you just go back 4 chapters and see Nami showing her "amazing navigating skills" as she commands the crew and takes the Merry through impossible odds, awfully similar to Jinbe showing his "amazing steering skills" as he commands the crew and takes the Sunny through impossible odds.
"Who's steering? Blue Bob, don't worry, he used to surf with his friends when they were kids". Pff, what's Oda thinking, am I right?
And if we are talking about similar scenes, instead of going back to Skypiea first chapters, you can move to its end and see Nami navigating (not steering, those were already very different things back then) through a tsunami!
It's pretty obvious that Oda treated navigating at steering as one and the same thing before (until he apparently decided to add someone as the helmsman. Which also questions our notion that Oda had planned everything about the SH crew since the beginning as we like to think). You can just accept that or just do what everybody does and selectively ignore the facts that don't conform to the conclusion you want to defend. But clearly I put way more effort in this post than I ever allow myself to in this kind of discussion, so I'll not keep going with this.
You're completely right lol. This is why I like to say that Oda can make any crewmate position be important out of nowhere. Because that's what he does. And he's never emphasized how important helming ships is until Whole Cake Island lol, even if we have that one time Jinbe was helming a ship on the way to Marineford. I always assumed Jinbe could be a great helmsman just because "he's a Fishman and communicates with sea animals, he might know a lot about ocean currents" or something like that. But that was still just an assumption.
Still though. He's put way too weak of an effort, even taking all of this into consideration, into the lookout position if that's supposed to be Carrot's crew position lol.
Right now there's not much went it comes to lookout. It could be significant down the road, so I won't say anything else about it. Am I the only one who thinks Pudding is sub-par? I'm sure she'll have some redemption, but it feels like a waste so far.
Sunny does lack a chronicler position, though.
The crew lacks a lookout….but a bird lookout, not crappy carrot. What better lookout then one that can also fly ahead to scout the area. And a bird would be unique in the crew unlike female chopper. they got fish, reindeer, humans, undead, a bird is pretty much the only thing they don-t got.
Right now there's not much went it comes to lookout. It could be significant down the road, so I won't say anything else about it. Am I the only one who thinks Pudding is sub-par? I'm sure she'll have some redemption, but it feels like a waste so far.
Subpar how exactly
Subpar how exactly
I don't know if you like how her personality has been developed, but I can't handle how she flips from evil to Sanji mode…
Sunny does lack a chronicler position, though.
@uniaka:
The crew lacks a lookout….but a bird lookout, not crappy carrot. What better lookout then one that can also fly ahead to scout the area. And a bird would be unique in the crew unlike female chopper. they got fish, reindeer, humans, undead, a bird is pretty much the only thing they don-t got.
You are both thinking about Morgans eh? Journalist that want to get the big scoop. Can't tell much, the government keeps him in check. How else will they print the new stories of Sora and God Usopp when the Government is overthrown. Crook journalist discovers the truth of the world.
@K.:
You are both thinking about Morgans eh? Journalist that want to get the big scoop. Can't tell much, the government keeps him in check. How else will they print the new stories of Sora and God Usopp when the Government is overthrown. Crook journalist discovers the truth of the world.
A bird race would be good but then again if its entire race of them he is not unique…. just like carrot and minks.
a bird zoan would be more unique. or maybe a bird race that has a bird zoan on top of it! there is also the pterodactyl zoan option.
There was a small fairy guy in the original sketches of the crew…. fairy fairy no mi mythical zoan model human fairy.
16 chars of Monet….:ninja:
I don't know if you like how her personality has been developed, but I can't handle how she flips from evil to Sanji mode…
Oh, I mean, eh, kinda miss when she was just evil, but the gags have been enjoyable. Anyhow, I expect a proper resolution concerning her misdeeds later on in the arc.
Oh, I mean, eh, kinda miss when she was just evil, but the gags have been enjoyable. Anyhow, I expect a proper resolution concerning her misdeeds later on in the arc.
Like I said, she is due to have some redeeming moment. So, yeah, lol.
@Count:
Still though. He's put way too weak of an effort, even taking all of this into consideration, into the lookout position if that's supposed to be Carrot's crew position lol.
All Carrot has so far is being consistently shown in the lookout position, a role the crew never needed to be filled and that could be performed just as fine by any crew member we got so far in their free time.
Normally I would say that amounts to nothing. And I am sure I would say that because that's what I said a few years ago when Jinbe was exactly in this same position and people kept seeing that as the proof he was going to be the SH helmsman.. well, we all know who ended up being wrong in that matter.
Actually, Jinbe didn't even need to be shown doing that a lot: just once as the group left ID was enough for AP to see that as the sign of his position.
To be honest, there is too much in Carrot that I think mirrors Jinbe situation back then (except for having his name dropped - and his existence anticipated - many years before his actual debut, I think Carrot currently stands as pretty much the same point Jinbe did somewhere mid Marineford. Back then I was the one saying people were reading too much between the lines with him…) and that is probably the main reason I can't convince myself she is not joining despite the fact I also heavily doubt it is going to happen.
This talk about a bird person, though, makes a second furry even less interesting. And I still think Sulong can be the perfect power up Chopper desperately needs (unless the Monster form is just the start of a Zoan's awakening, Chopper seem to have exhausted all his DF can offer him).
Sunny does lack a chronicler position, though.
Huh… this is a position I would honestly support.
@uniaka:
The crew lacks a lookout….but a bird lookout, not crappy carrot. What better lookout then one that can also fly ahead to scout the area. And a bird would be unique in the crew unlike female chopper. they got fish, reindeer, humans, undead, a bird is pretty much the only thing they don-t got.
With Sanji being able to fly without any effort whatsoever, a bird lookout is pretty redundant, even if it looks cool
I'm not still convinced of Carrot. She is not unique. Same for Pedro.
Better Gastino, even if he needs a full redemption that he won't have. He is a very nice character being evil but no nakama then.
Pudding has higher chances but I don't think she'll join.
Apart from Jinbe I can't see real candidates, but maybe Oda will surprise us…
Pudding is kind of automatically out because of the whole "no romance in the crew" rule oda gave. Also her powers are kind of hax yet dont lend well to interesting fights.
Pudding certainly doesn't have higher chances. For all the talk of uniqueness, ya can't step on one's toes harder than Pudding would do with Robin, and Sanji to a smaller extent.
Plus, there's no indication she can fight. Also a bit of a problem.
@S.C.:
Plus, there's no indication she can fight. Also a bit of a problem.
She managed to take down Reiju.
Pudding certainly doesn't have higher chances. For all the talk of uniqueness, ya can't step on one's toes harder than Pudding would do with Robin, and Sanji to a smaller extent.
She only potentially has the VOAT ability, which Luffy already has, so you can argue Robin's redundant already. And while baking is pretty redundant, she could be the actress or something. We don't really need one, but we didn't really need an archaeologist or a helmsman either.
@Long:
Pudding is kind of automatically out because of the whole "no romance in the crew" rule oda gave. Also her powers are kind of hax yet dont lend well to interesting fights.
It could easily be played for gags like how Sanji fawns over Nami and Robin and Pudding is the one girl he grows immune to. And you got a point with the hax ability. She has two options - be like Robin and get her combat written into an unlikely corner (thanks Oda), or be like Nami and just never fight at all.
She managed to take down Reiju.
Eh, she caught her off guard with a gun, it's not as if she quickly dispatched her with physical strength or her DF abilities. Nor does the gun seem to be something that she regularly uses. I have to agree with the sentiment that her particular Devil Fruit and her ostensible lack of any fighting ability does her no favors. Now, Oda could "fix" this, but the arc is coming to a close, so I'm pretty doubtful.
She only potentially has the VOAT ability, which Luffy already has, so you can argue Robin's redundant already. And while baking is pretty redundant, she could be the actress or something. We don't really need one, but we didn't really need an archaeologist or a helmsman either.
Well only potentially having it makes it even worse actually, because that just means she currently has even less going for her. It's just that when said 3rd eye does eventually activate or whatever, it just… allows her to do something that Robin can already do. I actually forgot about Luffy; that'd make 3 characters then, though I'd still put the primary spotlight on Robin. That said, saying Robin's redundant already is pretty disingenuous, especially since it isn't as if Luffy can willingly use the VOAT ability as he pleases. Nor does he have any interest in deciphering the Poneglyphs himself, he leaves that kind of stuff to Robin, who of course does have a vested interest.
Her being a good actress does sound like an unorthodox position Oda could go for, but I highly doubt Oda would add someone to the crew that would blatantly take away from Robin's primary usefulness like that. (Because it's not like she gets fights nowadays after all...)
I think it's very possible Pudding temporarily joins them (her being on Bege's ship does her no favors I guess), but permanently joining is another matter entirely.
Eh, she caught her off guard with a gun, it's not as if she quickly dispatched her with physical strength or her DF abilities. Nor does the gun seem to be something that she regularly uses. I have to agree with the sentiment that her particular Devil Fruit and her ostensible lack of any fighting ability does her no favors. Now, Oda could "fix" this, but the arc is coming to a close, so I'm pretty doubtful.
Well only potentially having it makes it even worse actually, because that just means she currently has even less going for her. It's just that when said 3rd eye does eventually activate or whatever, it just… allows her to do something that Robin can already do. I actually forgot about Luffy; that'd make 3 characters then, though I'd still put the primary spotlight on Robin. That said, saying Robin's redundant already is pretty disingenuous, especially since it isn't as if Luffy can willingly use the VOAT ability as he pleases. Nor does he have any interest in deciphering the Poneglyphs himself, he leaves that kind of stuff to Robin, who of course does have a vested interest.
Her being a good actress does sound like an unorthodox position Oda could go for, but I highly doubt Oda would add someone to the crew that would blatantly take away from Robin's primary usefulness like that. (Because it's not like she gets fights nowadays after all...)
I think it's very possible Pudding temporarily joins them (her being on Bege's ship does her no favors I guess), but permanently joining is another matter entirely.
At the same time, we still don't really know the details on the VOAT. Roger had it, but Rayleigh stated that Robin could come to a different conclusion than they did, meaning Pudding may also come to a different conclusion from Robin if she did get the ability. Or, it's possible both their interpretations could combine to something even more useful, while Nami uses said info to navigate them to Raftel. Though chances are she does have the ability, as why introduce that concept in the first place if it wasn't going to go anywhere, unless the Three Eye Tribe becomes relevant later. Pudding would be useful as an actress to be the crew's honey pot and manipulate memories of mooks as a support ability. Plus she does have a flying carpet and Nitro, which grants her mobility function and uh jelly cuff function.
I'm going to throw my hat into the ring. Where I stand currently:
Jinbe is joining.
Carrot is probably joining.
I'm not going to say Reiju is joining but she might be interesting to speculate about the further we come to the arc's close. We don't know what her devil fruit is but I find it really odd that she has one in the first place when her brothers don't. Perhaps she has a "Rei" fruit (or 0-fruit) and her DF powers are etiquette-related. I know Judge brought up swordtraining when talking to Sanji. Maybe that line was thrown in there as a nod to Sanji's fight with Wanze or perhaps it'll allude to things to come. At the wedding, the Vinsmokes said they left their weapons and raid suits at the entrance. What weapons were they referring to? Judge was also a former research partner of Vegapunk's so maybe that might get expanded on.
I didn't even know Reiju had a devil fruit.
I didn't even know Reiju had a devil fruit.
She doesn't. None of them do officially, anyway. Their powers are supposed to be based off their genetic manipulations in addition to their raid suits.
She doesn't. None of them do officially, anyway. Their powers are supposed to be based off their genetic manipulations in addition to their raid suits.
It's apparently confirmed in the One Piece Magazine that she has a devil fruit. I've no idea how canon that is though.
She doesn't. None of them do officially, anyway. Their powers are supposed to be based off their genetic manipulations in addition to their raid suits.
She does. It got confirmed in the 20th anniversary magazine this year. It was authored by Oda. He wrote a special "what if" chapter for it involving Sabo and he provided concept art for Germa and other characters. Given that I find it hard to believe that it was a mistake, especially since the genetic modification was a suitable explanation for their abilities 1 year prior. But nope, Reiju also has a DF for some reason.
Sunny does lack a chronicler position, though.
That's kind of Usopp's role in things. I mean, his entire introductory arc was about telling stories and accidentally telling the future. Robin also is the history person. And then off to the side they have Bart making note of everything they do.
Chronicling is covered many times over.
@.access:
All Carrot has so far is being consistently shown in the lookout position,
A role that is ALREADY Usopp's specialty that he just developed Haki to do super well. It's only a role at all because Usopp isn't there. And it's… using binoculars. Not a unique Carrot ability or talent or something she's been shown to be good at especially, just... using binoculars. She's even switched off with other characters.
I swear, the more this goes on the more I think people are just ignoring Usopp because he's not in the arc. He's also the artist of the group, that's not a unique Carrot talent either.
@Long:
Pudding is kind of automatically out because of the whole "no romance in the crew" rule oda gave. Also her powers are kind of hax yet dont lend well to interesting fights.
That was a rule Oda made 20 years ago. He's allowed to change as a writer and person and implement other things. He's certainly had romance in the series the last several years. Were she to join, he just wouldn't have them be luvey dovey 24/7 and be about relationship issues like it was a shoujo.
That said yeah, her powers are a bit much for a regular member and her design (third eye aside) is super plain.
I'm going to throw my hat into the ring. Where I stand currently:
Jinbe is joining.
Carrot is probably joining.I'm not going to say Reiju is joining but she might be interesting to speculate about the further we come to the arc's close. We don't know what her devil fruit is but I find it really odd that she has one in the first place when her brothers don't. Perhaps she has a "Rei" fruit (or 0-fruit) and her DF powers are etiquette-related. I know Judge brought up swordtraining when talking to Sanji. Maybe that line was thrown in there as a nod to Sanji's fight with Wanze or perhaps it'll allude to things to come. At the wedding, the Vinsmokes said they left their weapons and raid suits at the entrance. What weapons were they referring to? Judge was also a former research partner of Vegapunk's so maybe that might get expanded on.
Reiju is kind of this arc's Monet in a way. Great design, cool powers (and tech), but there's pretty much nothing to really play around with where one could really think that she has any chance at all. Would have to be one hell of a swerve involving her near at the end of the arc for me to give her any actual consideration, and I certainly don't see that happening. Also on a more biased note, I feel like Oda would never have a crewmate's family member join the crew, but maybe that's just me.
My only hopes for her are that I'd very much like for her to react to Zoro the same way Sanji reacts to women.
That's kind of Usopp's role in things. I mean, his entire introductory arc was about telling stories and accidentally telling the future. Robin also is the history person. And then off to the side they have Bart making note of everything they do.
Chronicling is covered many times over.
I was joking, anyway. On account how Pudding can set the record straight on any past events if there are people who were present.
Having said that, I wonder if her ability might have been used by some previous owner to manipulate people on a grander scale.
No Pudding, no Carrot, no Pedro, just plain old Jinbe.
And later on Bonney :ninja:
A role that is ALREADY Usopp's specialty that he just developed Haki to do super well. It's only a role at all because Usopp isn't there. And it's… using binoculars. Not a unique Carrot ability or talent or something she's been shown to be good at especially, just... using binoculars. She's even switched off with other characters.
Yeah, that's pretty much what I said after that comma.
But here's the thing: I don't deny that Carrot doesn't have pretty much anything going for her, what I'm saying is that what she has for and against her is the same Jinbe had years ago. And Jinbe ended up joining anyways.
So, if I'm being logical, I can't say Carrot is ruled out for the same reasons. I can say it is unlikely she is joining, I can say I don't want her to join (well, that would be a lie. Unless it's between her and Caesar), but I can't say she is definitely not joining based on the same reasons that didn't kept Jinbe from joining.
! "Carrot name is too lazy, Oda would put more effort into it if she was going to be a SH":
Like I said a while back, her name is lazy, but Jinbe is waaaay more. Jinbe is a whale shark > whale shark in japanese is "jinbe shark" (jinbezame).
! "Carrot is shown filling the role of lookout, but even though she is always there, she is just as good as anyone at the job. We saw many other SH performing this job just as fine as she did and we actually have a SH who can perform it much better than her. The fact she is shown performing a role that is already performed by any other SH in their free time and is actually amazingly performed by a specific one actually goes against, not for her":
That was also true for Jinbe! He was shown at the helm of ships every time it was possible, but it wasn't until now in WCI that he suddenly displayed amazing abilities at it. Until now, even though many scenes of him at the helm were presented, he was shown to be just as good as a helmsman as any SH could be and was, while the ability to read the seas and properly manage the ship to take advantage of it was shown to be one of Nami specialties, so Nami is Jinbe's Usopp.
Every box is checked here:
! "If Oda planned to have Carrot joining he would have focused more on her, but so far she was overshadowed by everyone":
Jinbe had an impactful presentation, I agree, but up to the final chapters of ID, when Jinbe finally got his moment to shine, he was also overshadowed by pretty much everyone in there - he wasn't helped by the fact he only managed to join Luffy's group much late -, his actual development only came in the next arc in Marineford. Again, the same thing that happened to Carrot, but with one arc of delay (she debute in Zou and she was background material there from start to end): Totto Land is her Impel Down, so Wano can be her Marineford.
! "Carrot personality is unremarkable. SH always have unique personalities":
Ok, let's try to be unbiased here, because…
I know, we all like Jinbe. Some of us love him. But let's face it: his personality is not remarkable. Specially not by One Piece standards and most of all not by the high standards we set for a SH member. We are so aware of that that every time he makes a facefault we make a huge deal of it as if it was a "here, see? A hint of personality!" He is lovely, he is everyone's best bro, but his personality is not remarkable... and that won't keep him from being a good addition to the SH.
Carrot's only personality trait may be "tomboy girl always in high spirits", and that's far from a tridimensional personality, but it is enough for her to stand out.
! "Carrot design has no effort behind it":
True, but Jinbe... well, no. Jinbe's character design is unique. But Carrot just shown she has a second design she can access under the right circumstances, so this point just lost its power (and I would argue if there was any to begin with, seeing how Robin just went from "very unique design" to "almost a carbon copy of another prominent female design" just a few arcs ago).
The only real con Carrot has that doesn't seem to mirror Jinbe's case a few arcs ago is the fact her visual traits overlap with Chopper. That's the only point that I think holds up and it is a serious enough blow to ruin her chances by itself. But all the others…
We were making fully fledged legit calls on Jimbe joining from before we even SAW him in Impel down, based on story and overall presentation. Go back and take a look and see how much he had going for him that was defendable and held up within his FIRST CHAPTER.
http://forums.arlongpark.net/showthread.php?t=21067
Feel free to dip me in tar, throw feathers on me, and then light me on fire for saying this, but– Given Jinbei's build-up over the years, his comparison in "stature" to Arlong (who we know isn't incredibly powerful), the fact that he was captured and thrown in jail, the fact that he is a fishman, the seemingly possible fact that he no longer has a crew, the fact that Luffy essentially did was Fisher Tiger did (I presume Jinbei idolized Fisher Tiger), and the high chance that Luffy will break him out of prison lead anyone to believe he might actually be the next nakama? I mean, sure, I have said in the past that a Shichibukai would overshadow Luffy's position as captain, but that was when we were talking about Hancock, who I felt had other reasons behind that. No, I am not saying JINBEI 4 NAKAMA!?!#@#?@$@BBQ!#@1!? Rather, does anyone else find it to be a possibility that given Jinbei's stance on the war, the fact that he would need to be released from the prison, the fact that the crew is still short two people, the fact that Fishman island is next, and a few other things that Jinbei might be a contender for the position?
That was before he even appeared on camera, before he'd said a single line. Based on actual story, plot, and setup reasons. Several of the people arguing hardest for him didnt even like or want him, but the story is what was being used.
And then a few weeks later
[hide]
Keep in mind I have no current "desire" for Jinbei to join (especially since he is still so mysterious), and I am not saying he should join or that it would be cool if he did. Given that, for the sake of discussion let me give the basic reasons why I considered it:
[/hide]
That was mostly pure conjecture, but story based, and look at just how much of it bore out. And that was like a week in, before we even got his relationship with Ace!
Not this constant bar lowering grasping at straws "any possible thing to try add something unique to a character that isn't actually unique" and creating checklists of criteria that make no sense which Carrot is now going through that is 100% identical to every female before her.
I'm sure if I had the time or energy I could find near identical calls for Hancock or Perona or SHirahoshi or Margaruiete or Monet. Perona probably had "lookout" nonsense too, and Viola definitely did. ANd Monet was going to be the crew astronomer!
Jimbe wasn't a checklist based on "what can he do" but "who is he and what does he bring to the story."
And that's before you get into comparing the designs and how much relative thought must have gone into them.
We were making fully fledged legit calls on Jimbe joining from before we even SAW him in Impel down, based on story and overall presentation. Go back and take a look and see how much he had going for him that was defendable and held up within his FIRST CHAPTER.
http://forums.arlongpark.net/showthread.php?t=21067
That was before he even appeared on camera, before he'd said a single line. Based on actual story, plot, and setup reasons. Several of the people arguing hardest for him didnt even like or want him, but the story is what was being used.
And then a few weeks later
That was mostly pure conjecture, but story based, and look at just how much of it bore out! And that was like a week in!
Not this constant bar lowering grasping at straws "any possible thing to try add something unique to a character that isn't actually unique" that Carrot is now going through that is 100% identical to every female before her.
I'm sure if I had the time or energy I could find near identical calls for Hancock or Perona or SHirahoshi or Margaruiete or Monet. Perona probably had "lookout" nonsense too, and Viola definitely did. ANd Monet was going to be the crew astronomer!
Jimbe wasn't a checklist based on "what can he do" but "who is he and what does he bring to the story."
And that's before you get into comparing the designs and how much relative thought must have gone into them.
I havent done a reread in a while but im still pretty sure usopp isnt the usually the first eyes when crazy shit goes down. Because oda likes showing Usopp react to things not see an usopp reaction and then the craziness. With his goggles and being a sniper and having haki it all makes sense why he would be a good one. But for a story reason oda hasnt given usopp any priority in this and has a gag that almost always sets him up as not seeing things first storywise, which tbh is the whole point of a lookout. Zoro has been more of a lookout than usopp despite being "fine" at it.
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That's kind of Usopp's role in things. I mean, his entire introductory arc was about telling stories and accidentally telling the future. Robin also is the history person. And then off to the side they have Bart making note of everything they do.
Chronicling is covered many times over.
A role that is ALREADY Usopp's specialty that he just developed Haki to do super well. It's only a role at all because Usopp isn't there. And it's… using binoculars. Not a unique Carrot ability or talent or something she's been shown to be good at especially, just... using binoculars. She's even switched off with other characters.
I swear, the more this goes on the more I think people are just ignoring Usopp because he's not in the arc. He's also the artist of the group, that's not a unique Carrot talent either.
That was a rule Oda made 20 years ago. He's allowed to change as a writer and person and implement other things. He's certainly had romance in the series the last several years. Were she to join, he just wouldn't have them be luvey dovey 24/7 and be about relationship issues like it was a shoujo.
That said yeah, her powers are a bit much for a regular member and her design (third eye aside) is super plain.
But all the romance oda has done besides with sanji (the supposedly lovable "rascal pervert gentleman with a heart of gold") has been with side characters, puddings attachment to everyone else is I dont want them to die because sanji is friends with them.
He'd have to characterize her a lot more and having the set up she had before she turned out to be evil or rather have a mask to protect herself would have made more sense if she was to join. She cant just be having chemistry with only sanji, she'd need tofit with everyone else. At least carrot has some chemistry with luffy/chopper/nami (and offscreen sanji).
@Long:
I havent done a reread in a while but im still pretty sure usopp isnt the usually the first eyes when crazy shit goes down. Because oda likes showing Usopp react to things not see an usopp reaction and then the craziness. With his goggles and being a sniper and having haki it all makes sense why he would be a good one. But for a story reason oda hasnt given usopp any priority in this and has a gag that almost always sets him up as not seeing things first storywise, which tbh is the whole point of a lookout. Zoro has been more of a lookout than usopp despite being "fine" at it.
Which means…. Oda has no interest in having a lookout actually spoil the adventure? If Usopp, with his eyes that can shoot a pebble between bars through a window pane across the city doesn't qualify as defacto "look really far" guy at this point, how much crazier would someone have to excel to see even better than the sniper? Just how much would that detract from and basically ruin Usopp's development and main skill? (Never mind that Brook has a scouting ghost and Robin can sprout limbs anywhere) Or that Luffy, Zoro, Sanji and Usopp all have observation Haki at this point.
And if this was supposed to be Carott's thing, why was she readily trading places with others the entire arc and with zero comment on her specializing in it? When Pedro and Chopper both also pick up binoculars at the same time and do the same thing just as well, it is NOT a specialty she has... she's only doing it because literally half the crew is missing. its people making something up entirely to try ad add weight to a character who nearly 100 chapters later hasn't actually dont that much. She can draw? So can Usopp! She can use electricity? So can Nami! She can turn into a powerful monster form? So can Chopper!
If she were a guy the arguments wouldn't be anywhere near this fierce for her. I gotta give that much to the Pedro supporter, as insane as that was, at least it was a change of pace.
@Long:
But all the romance oda has done
The point isn't "Pudding will join." I'm sure she won't.
The point is, Oda isn't beholden to a restraint he half assed in an SBS 20 years ago, and if he wants to approach romance at this point, he can… he just wouldn't ever let it take over like it was a shoujo manga and be super lovey dovey.
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The only real con Carrot has that doesn't seem to mirror Jinbe's case a few arcs ago is the fact her visual traits overlap with Chopper.
But Carrot just shown she has a second design she can access under the right circumstances,
So the thing she now does that makes her EVEN MORE LIKE CHOPPER, is what makes her different?
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I KNOW! I was here back in that time and I remember that ~~specially because I
I'm not trying to sound snarky here, hope I don't come out that way, but seriously. The fact people supported Jinbe since the very beginning when he had nothing going for him except "his name was thrown back in East Blue" shows how little there evidence was.Not counting all the stuff I just pointed out above.
the fact that he was captured and thrown in jail, the fact that he is a fishman, the seemingly possible fact that he no longer has a crew, the fact that Luffy essentially did was Fisher Tiger did (I presume Jinbei idolized Fisher Tiger), and the high chance that Luffy will break him out of prison lead anyone to believe he might actually be the next nakama?
Before he even appeared on camera he had all that going. I'm NOT saying "yeah, week one I was totally rooting for him to join" because I wasn't. But all of that was there from the getgo, something that could be very clearly pointed to and I was convinced pretty early he was a legit strong candidate.
That had NOTHING to do with his design or personality, but everything to do with his role in the story and how Oda presented it. Oda could have first shown Jimbe rebelling and decimating marines only to then be arrested, and thus started by showing how awesome and badass he was after 10 years of build up. But instead he was humble and chained and beat up. Completely different from expectations or preconceptions. And then almost immediately showed his relationship and loyalty and respect to Ace. And so on. He had a solid case that held firm from the getgo.
The forum also had a pretty good track record when it came to Franky and Brook (I don't understand why so many people argued against Brook when he said he'd join immediately.) Jimbe is just the most relevant thing to point to because its the most recent and going back any further predates most forum members at this point.
What about Carrot's first appearance was memorable or different? She wasn't even the first Mink we met. She… was with Wanda? Who had the mystery of why she was dressed like Nami surrounding her, and who did all the talking for most of Zou. WHo stood in the background behind Pedro? The most interesting thing she did in her first 20 chapters was to come along.
Compare that to Brook being asked if he can poop and then join immediately, plus the crazy design unlike anything else in the series.
Compare that to Franky doing a song and dance and revealing his design unlike anything else in the series.
Compare the enigma of Robin's intro, an her strange role all of Alabasta... and with a face design that, while Oda has gone more generic over the years, was incredibly different from every other girl at the time.
Compare how crazy unusual Chopper was when he appeared. WIth his hat and broken horn and blue nose and seven form and being the only talking animal in the series and the lengthy flashback he got almost immediately.
Compare Zoru, Usopp, Sanji and everything memorable they did in their first chapters plus the craziness of Zoro's three sword style, Usopp's nose, Sanji's swirly brow and kicking style, and so on.I didn't fully jump onto the Jimbe for nakama train the first week out, but the DISCUSSION made sense and the actual reasoning and storytelling points and what Oda was doing was sound, and I was convinced pretty early based on that. Despite not caring about his design or personality, the story arguments and his actual roll and how Oda was handling him is what convinced me. By the end of the war when it was just him and Luffy on the island it was 100%, though I know for a lot of people it wasn't until Fishman Island's ending.~~
There's nothing wrong with liking a side character, just look at how popular Vivi was. I was sold on Jimbe when he gave that speech to Luffy. Franky, Brook, Chopper, Zoro, Nami, Sanji, and Usopp were extremely obvious from the getgo with their presentations.Robin was kind of a enigma, but I knew about half-way that she would end up on the ship. Carrot has had no hints or developments that indicate otherwise. No, using Pedro's death is not a good argument because this is One Piece. Even her overall aesthetic is plain, if she had some attributes of current transformation to her base design, it would at least grab my attention more,but there's just no indicators of her joining.
In regards to Jimbei's name just being whale shark as if it's lazy like the name Carrot is to a rabbit, Jimbei's name also refers to his style of dress. The big kimonos he wears plays right into the species of fish that he is. Definitely a tad more thought went into his name.
In regards to Jimbei's name just being whale shark as if it's lazy like the name Carrot is to a rabbit, Jimbei's name also refers to his style of dress. The big kimonos he wears plays right into the species of fish that he is. Definitely a tad more thought went into his name.
Actually that's why the whale shark is called jinbe shark, the pattern on its back looks like the one on the jinbe vests. The "pun" lies on the shark name, not on the character's that is just as plain as that.
You could say that Jinbe's design plays on both the shark and the fact it is named after a kimono, though (although - and I may be wrong on this since I don't really understand much of japanese clothing - I don't think the kimonos Jinbe wears are jinbe).
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I should have said a memorable introduction is something Jinbe had over Carrot. I agree her introduction (or everything concerning her in Zou) was background character material.
Chapter 888 seem to compensate for that, but I still don't know where to point concerning her.
No, using Pedro's death is not a good argument because this is One Piece.
His words would matter more than his death imo
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Actually that's why the whale shark is called jinbe shark, the pattern on its back looks like the one on the jinbe vests. The "pun" lies on the shark name, not on the character's that is just as plain as that.
You could say that Jinbe's design plays on both the shark and the fact it is named after a kimono, though (although - and I may be wrong on this since I don't really understand much of japanese clothing - I don't think the kimonos Jinbe wears are jinbe).
I should have said a memorable introduction is something Jinbe had over Carrot. I agree her introduction (or everything concerning her in Zou) was background character material.
Chapter 888 seem to compensate for that, but I still don't know where to point concerning her.
But even among Minks, that's not unique. And it's only useful literally once in a blue moon. Such a gargantuan handicap on one's potential is not a good ingredient for a new nakama recipe. Unless she alone will somehow come up with a way to maintain that status outside of full moon nights, she doesn't exactly have an edge. Not to mention Chopper's much more suited to transformation-based (and beastly ones at that) skills and he's already on the crew.
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Chapter 888 seem to compensate for that, but I still don't know where to point concerning her.
More than anything it screams "defining moment of development inspiration for Chopper".
More than anything it screams "defining moment of development inspiration for Chopper".
Pretty reminiscent of Punk Hazard where Zoro and the others witnessed Kinemon's fire-cutting ability. What are the odds nobody thinks Zoro's going to learn that?