Meanwhile at some bar in totland. Smoothie preparing some drinks for the wedding guests to take their mind of straw hats chaos from the wedding.
One Piece Chapter 882: Outside of a Yonko’s expectations
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@Mr0:
No of course not, but I don't think that Luffy will be content with just knocking him down, he's gonna go for the KO, and I expect it to happen
Hell we can already see this chapter that Luffy is dodging his attacks, and Katakuri can see into the future! The gap in strength isn't as big as everyone seems to think, mark my words
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It doesn't matter if Luffy is content or not if he hears his friends are in trouble once Big Mom arrives at Cacao Island after Katakuri falls on his back while still being conscious and able.
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@Count:
It doesn't matter if Luffy is content or not if he hears his friends are in trouble once Big Mom arrives at Cacao Island after Katakuri falls on his back while still being conscious and able.
Big mom took the detour at nuts island, so oda pretty much shows she will get delayed. And you already need 10 hours to get there. So luffy has plenty of time to spend it with katakuri, all his focus is on katakuri for hours.
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@uniaka:
Big mom took the detour at nuts island, so oda pretty much shows she will get delayed. And you already need 10 hours to get there. So luffy has plenty of time to spend it with katakuri, all his focus is on katakuri for hours.
And maybe the only reason she is getting delayed is so the Straw Hats and Charlottes have enough time to group up and bake the cake before Big Mom arrives. If Luffy and Katakuri are still active by then, they can decide to call a truce and help out after Luffy lands a clean back-dropping hit on Katakuri.
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Kinda a meh chapter.
The arc is starting to slow down a lot now. I wasn't expecting or asking for a full Luffy/Katakuri fight, but that seems like we are getting.
I kinda feel the arc is starting to get long in the tooth, I hope we wrap this up by X-mas
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i'm not fond of when oda does things like this. granted its not all fleshed out so i could be wrong but we got introduced to several of the big mom heavy hitters: compote, perospero, smoothie, katakuri, daifuku and oven in chapter 861 and im sure she has more. we've gotten katakuri and perospero going after the straw hats, BUT…
where is smoothie? where is compote? where is daifuku and oven? we have a national crisis and not one confirmed heavy hitter went after the vinsmokes? where is snack? is he dead? handicapped? like a simple line would have helped when brulee mentioned him. its like his sole purpose to hype urogue and its an incomplete attempt because apart from being a commander we have nothing to gauge him on strength wise.
I know this is all a setup for cacao island but apart from big mom and katakuri, oda is making the big mom pirates look incompetent. The idea to put tomago's speech to say they shouldnt underestimate strawhats is also slightly a bit contrived. big mom, katakuri and perspero are on the strawhats ass; the top two big mom pirates members are pursuing them along with a confirmed in story big hitter. how is that underestimation? theyve been allied with bege for close to if not over a year, yet he's underestimated too? how'd he leave the island? the clashes that took place on the chateau should have at least made them better prepared yet katakuri is the only one preparing. even if katakuri didnt prepare for luffy there was still big mom, i couldnt even fault him for letting luffy escape from someone who is suppose to be a yonkou threat.
idk man. this set up doesnt seem well prepared.
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@Mr0:
I honestly can't believe how many people here expect Luffy to not beat Katakuri
Do you remember when Zoro fought Kuma? Who do you think won? I'll give you hint; it wasn't Kuma.
What about Luffy's fight with Kuzan on Long Ring? Despite losing the fight, Luffy, still won.
Sanji's fight with Gin ended similarly with Sanji losing and still "winning" in unique way.Not all fights are going to be clear cut victories.
Luffy vs Katakuri may be one of these moments. This is how I could see it going down: Luffy's gear 4 is successful in knocking Katakuri on his back in some big attack at the end of the chapter. We have a week of arguing of whether or not he is down for the count. Then next chapter Kata gets up and now stands over an immobile Luffy cause that's what G4 does to him. Kata says something badass about respect for Luffy.
So how does Luffy survive? Cake. Right now Big Mom is on her way to destroy one of her island. I'm sure if Sanji threatens to throw the cake into the ocean or destroy it, Katakuri will be willing to negotiate if it means protecting his family, crew and kingdom from complete destruction.Of course, none this may happen, I don't know, I'm not good at predictions.
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Do you remember when Zoro fought Kuma? Who do you think won? I'll give you hint; it wasn't Kuma.
What about Luffy's fight with Kuzan on Long Ring? Despite losing the fight, Luffy, still won.
Sanji's fight with Gin ended similarly with Sanji losing and still "winning" in unique way.Not all fights are going to be clear cut victories.
Luffy vs Katakuri may be one of these moments. This is how I could see it going down: Luffy's gear 4 is successful in knocking Katakuri on his back in some big attack at the end of the chapter. We have a week of arguing of whether or not he is down for the count. Then next chapter Kata gets up and now stands over an immobile Luffy cause that's what G4 does to him. Kata says something badass about respect for Luffy.
So how does Luffy survive? Cake. Right now Big Mom is on her way to destroy one of her island. I'm sure if Sanji threatens to throw the cake into the ocean or destroy it, Katakuri will be willing to negotiate if it means protecting his family, crew and kingdom from complete destruction.Of course, none this may happen, I don't know, I'm not good at predictions.
See I can also see it going that way, but I think it would undermine Luffys resolve and weaken how the audience will perceive him, especially as he will be taking on Kaido next arc
I'm not saying I 100% expect Luffy to KO Katakuri, your prediction seems like a very possible and likely direction the story could take, but I just think Luffy needs a definite win against someone big in the New World, based on his own merits and without help.
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@Mr0:
Luffy always wins in the end
Not true. He lost to Aokiji, Magellan, Smoker and his fight with Blackbeard was canceled so he technically didn't win that one either.
Luffy doesn't lose often, but often enough to keep the suspense going.
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Not true. He lost to Aokiji, Magellan, Smoker and his fight with Blackbeard was canceled so he technically didn't win that one either.
Luffy doesn't lose often, but often enough to keep the suspense going.
Ah but all those losses were for important story purposes, and during those fights it was clear Luffy was no match for the opponent.
In this case we've seen Katakuri praise Luffys dodging ability, meaning they are closer in strength than most may think.
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@Mr0:
See I can also see it going that way, but I think it would undermine Luffys resolve and weaken how the audience will perceive him, especially as he will be taking on Kaido next arc
I'm not saying I 100% expect Luffy to KO Katakuri, your prediction seems like a very possible and likely direction the story could take, but I just think Luffy needs a definite win against someone big in the New World, based on his own merits and without help.
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Well, he's definitely not taking on Kaido alone in the next arc. He might give the finishing blow alone, but he will definitely have some allies for the first half or more of that battle. Luffy is a compelling protagonist because of how he is an underdog that still manages to look impressive even when he loses his fights. Stalemating Katakuri and maybe learning a bit about how to awaken… Awakening can will be enough to make him look impressive. I want Luffy to have a definite win too, but it doesn't have to be here and here only.
The fact that Luffy isn't far off from Katakuri's strength is what will still keep his street cred intact.
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@Count:
Well, he's definitely not taking on Kaido alone in the next arc. He might give the finishing blow alone, but he will definitely have some allies for the first half or more of that battle. Luffy is a compelling antagonist because of how he is an underdog that still manages to look impressive even when he loses his fights. Stalemating Katakuri and maybe learning a bit about how to awaken… Awakening can will be enough to make him look impressive. I want Luffy to have a definite win too, but it doesn't have to be here and here only.
The fact that Luffy isn't far off from Katakuri's strength is what will still keep his street cred intact.
Ah this is why I never post in these forums, I always end up being swayed by others more convincing arguments!
Yeah I by no means meant to imply that Luffy would solo Kaido haha I'm fully expecting a supernova team up to defeat him.
I can see the fight ending with Luffy learning about Awakening and them just leaving then having Big Mom go down for real after Kaido, but I'm never good at predicting what Oda does with the story
Just a minor correction you mean Luffy is a compelling protagonist, not antagonist
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@Count:
Cloud powers can often be inexplicably tangible because of how their fluffiness is almost synonymous with pillows and mattresses. And Oda is a huge fan of Dragon Ball, the series with a cloud riding protagonist. Water typically isn't depicted as a solid substance in fiction that can be walked on unless its frozen or the user's abilities completely revolve around manipulating liquids. Although it could be possible that it can work like how only Big Mom can ride on Zeus. But a big surprise reveal was made earlier about Big Mom still chasing the heroes on sea by walking on candy, so it's weird to make that redundant by creating supposedly solid ocean Homies.
Solid clouds is a concept that was introduced about 600 chapters ago but people seem to have forgotten.
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@Mr0:
Ah this is why I never post in these forums, I always end up being swayed by others more convincing arguments!
Yeah I by no means meant to imply that Luffy would solo Kaido haha I'm fully expecting a supernova team up to defeat him.
I can see the fight ending with Luffy learning about Awakening and them just leaving then having Big Mom go down for real after Kaido, but I'm never good at predicting what Oda does with the story
Just a minor correction you mean Luffy is a compelling protagonist, not antagonist
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I hate making typos on my phone lol.
Solid clouds is a concept that was introduced about 600 chapters ago but people seem to have forgotten.
I forgot too lol.
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Luffy forces Katakuri to lay on his back, and the latter realizes how much joy it brought him. Then they hear about Big Mom and the rest fighting for the cake. Both high five each other and jump from the Mirror World as the Mirror Bros. Katakuri then explains to Luffy how to awaken so he can help better. Luffy goes to eat the cake.
Reverie happens as the last chapter of the year, with 2 panels of Wano.
Good chapter though.
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Luffy has to win against Katakuri and not on some logistic level or because Katakuri will concede the victory to him out of honor, but because he needs to win.
He just promised to Momonosuke that he was going to free Wano by defeating Kaido and that's not something he will do at some point in the future, but immediately after WCI. Assuming the SH manage to leave BM territory (and obviously Luffy is working under this assumption), they will start heading to Wano immediately after - where the other half of the crew is already waiting for them and maybe in serious need of help.
It's not just from a reader or plot standpoint, even from Luffy's POV Katakuri is an enemy he must be able to outright defeat if he dreams of defeating Kaido in the next days. Even if a chance to run away from this fight presents itself to him, Luffy should ignore it and focus on beating Katakuri.
Sure there will be plenty of help in Wano, but Luffy is not the kind of person to think "I don't need to be strong enough by myself because there will be other strong people to fight Kaido as well". And sure it will take some days (maybe weeks) for them to reach Wano and we know it's between arcs that Luffy actually improves himself and comes out with new Gear ideas, not during the fights. But Katakuri is a very convenient chance to measure his abilities and try to get a bit closer to what will be expected of him in Wano.The only way I can see Oda not making Luffy defeat Katakuri is if he wants the reader to think Wano will be a suicide mission. That would be great, it would build up the tension considerably (and we'll need it to not feel like the Beast Pirates will be completely underwhelmed by the sheer number of strong allies Luffy will have), but I don't think that's what Oda is aiming for.
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Seems like a good opportunity to show the Gomu Gomu Awakening, and i hope it wont turn the surroundings into rubber. I would like (and it would make more sense) if Luffy splits his limbs and generates more of them, more or less how Katakuri already demonstrated, but by keeping them active throughout instead of just for the attacks.
It would be a natural evolution of the Jet Gatling, where instead of throwing punches from 2 arms at incredible speed, now he would multiply that effect for each new arm for devastating effects.It would look like something like this: [hide]http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/factpile/images/c/c6/5098805-4347548759-six_a.png/revision/latest?cb=20160322205802[/hide]
It's like the Asura from Zoro, but to much greater effect and more grounded with Luffy's powers
Shockingly little co-sign to this, so please allow me tip my hat and co-sign your theory ;-) People keep talking about turning surroundings into rubber, but Luffy isn't a "Production" paramecia like Doffy was; it wouldn't make sense for his awakening to look the same. Since Luffy is a "Body-Mod" paramecia, your theory is much more plausible, and would serve Luffy SOOOO much better in battle. I also believe that's why Oda had Carrot make that direct comparison b/w Luffy and Kata's abilities, then proceeded to constantly show how much MORE effective Katakuri is at Luffy's own techniques when enhanced with his ability to generate and attack with multiple limbs. Also, I want a Gomu Gomu No Quad-Kong Gun, darn it!
Great chapter, of course. I was about 158% positive that Capone and his men were locked in a life-or-death battle to escape Smoothie at this point, but we have visited every major front of this arc now and Smoothie has not even been mentioned, much less seen. That's both SUPER disappointing and perplexing :-(
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@Count:
Well, he's definitely not taking on Kaido alone in the next arc. He might give the finishing blow alone, but he will definitely have some allies for the first half or more of that battle. Luffy is a compelling protagonist because of how he is an underdog that still manages to look impressive even when he loses his fights. Stalemating Katakuri and maybe learning a bit about how to awaken… Awakening can will be enough to make him look impressive. I want Luffy to have a definite win too, but it doesn't have to be here and here only.
The fact that Luffy isn't far off from Katakuri's strength is what will still keep his street cred intact.
Yeah, but luffy is likely at the point in time when he doesn't lose anymore, well, you could call it a loss that he can't beat bm this arc and has to leave with some kind of cake deal or just leave.
Luffy does win most of the time, even more with the non main villain, his underlings. Heck, luffy even steals other peopleìs wins, like doflamingo, just to get a win, on top of middle arc wins like chinajo or cracker.
The only real loss is marineford, but for obvious reasons, since it was all marine force and 2 years too early to count luffy. Even his loss with kuma was a a win because he needed the 2 years, and magellan was not really the focus, ace was, and he still managed ot beat vice warden and do good with the candle armor with magellan.
And katakuri made it clear he needs to stop luffy for good because he will be trouble for bm i nthe future, and based on this chapter, he is using his spear to chopp luffy, now he isn't holding back and leaving some draw or whatever scenario likely. Katakuri doesn't need stay around for too long, he is some charcter introduced in the middle of the arc as some powerhouse but doesn't look like he needs to stay relevânt beyond this fight.
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I find it silly to talk about whether or not Luffy can beat Katakuri when Luffy hasn't pulled out all the stops yet. Let's see what he does in Gear Fourth, and then we'll talk.
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All Luffy needs is to show progress in his battle tactics/abilities, enough to make Katakuri struggle/ falter, not a full win. And Oda has no problem finding excuses to rip Luffy out of fights he's serious about if they don't fit the necessary plot structure. Look at what happened with Luffy fighting Fujitora at the end of Dressrosa. What Luffy wants is not going to be what the story wants. Oda will go for routes that make Luffy look like an underdog. If Luffy manages to last longer against Kaido as much or even longer than, for example, Marco, then that already shows that Luffy will reach Katakuri's level or beyond in Wano Country.
I still doubt that Oda is going to dedicate a full villain defeat fight to Katakuri when there is nobody in the Mirror World to watch the battle besides Brulee or anybody who needs to be saved/inspired. I still doubt that Luffy is somehow going to be able to defeat Katakuri AND still have the stamina to help out with quelling Big Mom's rampage. I still doubt that Katakuri is going to be out of the game while the rest of the Charlotte Family probably helps out with baking the cake, especially when he seems like a cool guy that respects Luffy and cares about his family. There wouldn't even be any point in hyping up Katakuri never falling on his back unless that action alone would be the trigger for something.
The real arc fight is with Big Mom, not Katakuri. katakuri is essential for Luffy;s growth, but he is ultimately a sideshow. And a sideshow is too minor to expect a full comeback like Luffy's typical arc endgame fights where he gives his all and stays down to rest for several hours/days.
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Since we're getting to see the Germa and Capone agian, I really wonder if we'll see Caesar anytime soon. I mean I'm afraid we won't see him for the rest of the arc even though I really hope he gets to be a part of this arc's climax.
Also, for some reason, I decided to count how many chapters the Swirlyhats were offscreen, and compare that to how long the Strawhats who went to Wano before Luffy are absent. And to my surprise, the numbers are pretty close, as Sanji and the rest were last appearance before leaving the scene at Dressrosa was on chapter 730, and the next time they were shown was on chapter 795, they were finally reunited with the others in chapter 806. Which means they were technically absent for 64 chapters, and waited 75 chapters till they were reunited with the rest. On the other hand, the Wano group last appeared in chapter 822, they have not reunited or showed up since then. So if we count how many chapters they were away, which is 60 chapters, we will realize they are almost absent for as long as the Swirlyhats were, and I'm pretty sure they won't show up in only 4 chapters, but at same time I'm sure the gap between their reappearance and them getting reunited with the rest of the Strawhats won't be as big as 11 chapters.
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@Count:
All Luffy needs is to show progress in his battle tactics/abilities, enough to make Katakuri struggle/ falter, not a full win. And Oda has no problem finding excuses to rip Luffy out of fights he's serious about if they don't fit the necessary plot structure. Look at what happened with Luffy fighting Fujitora at the end of Dressrosa. What Luffy wants is not going to be what the story wants. Oda will go for routes that make Luffy look like an underdog. If Luffy manages to last longer against Kaido as much or even longer than, for example, Marco, then that already shows that Luffy will reach Katakuri's level or beyond in Wano Country.
I still doubt that Oda is going to dedicate a full villain defeat fight to Katakuri when there is nobody in the Mirror World to watch the battle besides Brulee or anybody who needs to be saved/inspired. I still doubt that Luffy is somehow going to be able to defeat Katakuri AND still have the stamina to help out with quelling Big Mom's rampage. I still doubt that Katakuri is going to be out of the game while the rest of the Charlotte Family probably helps out with baking the cake, especially when he seems like a cool guy that respects Luffy and cares about his family. There wouldn't even be any point in hyping up Katakuri never falling on his back unless that action alone would be the trigger for something.
The real arc fight is with Big Mom, not Katakuri. katakuri is essential for Luffy;s growth, but he is ultimately a sideshow. And a sideshow is too minor to expect a full comeback like Luffy's typical arc endgame fights where he gives his all and stays down to rest for several hours/days.
You have CC that was sideshow for doflamingo and was good enough as luffy's arc endgame.
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@uniaka:
You have CC that was sideshow for doflamingo and was good enough as luffy's arc endgame.
Caesar Clown was the main antagonist of Punk Hazard, an arc where Doflamingo only made a cameo in to hype up the next arc. And Luffy easily overpowered Caesar similar to the early fights in East Blue before Luffy first lost to Crocodile.
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@Count:
I still doubt that Oda is going to dedicate a full villain defeat fight to Katakuri when there is nobody in the Mirror World to watch the battle besides Brulee or anybody who needs to be saved/inspired. I still doubt that Luffy is somehow going to be able to defeat Katakuri AND still have the stamina to help out with quelling Big Mom's rampage. I still doubt that Katakuri is going to be out of the game while the rest of the Charlotte Family probably helps out with baking the cake, especially when he seems like a cool guy that respects Luffy and cares about his family. There wouldn't even be any point in hyping up Katakuri never falling on his back unless that action alone would be the trigger for something.
The real arc fight is with Big Mom, not Katakuri. katakuri is essential for Luffy;s growth, but he is ultimately a sideshow. And a sideshow is too minor to expect a full comeback like Luffy's typical arc endgame fights where he gives his all and stays down to rest for several hours/days.
I suppose we disagree. I see Katakuri as the Byakuya of this arc: the big villain behind the events may be someone else (BM/Aizen), but they are the final bosses of this stage and the one the main character will have to surpass. I see BM as just a grim reminder that while Luffy is still trying to reach a certain level, he is already playing with people way ahead of that, but dealing with her is not where Luffy will be needed. That will be Sanji's time to shine.
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@.access:
I suppose we disagree. I see Katakuri as the Byakuya of this arc: the big villain behind the events may be someone else (BM/Aizen), but they are the final bosses of this stage and the one the main character will have to surpass. I see BM as just a grim reminder that while Luffy is still trying to reach a certain level, he is already playing with people way ahead of that, but dealing with her is not where Luffy will be needed. That will be Sanji's time to shine.
I don't think that Oda really cares for Byakuya types though. At best you'll get something like Mr. 3 or Caesar on different islands than their bosses, early threats like Blueno and Cracker, or a Spandam that is really harmless and is only a threat because of authority. Big Mom, to me, is like Oars. Katakuri in the Mirror World, to me, is like Moria distracting Luffy in the woods while the Straw Hats fight Oars. Except this fight will have more payoff than Luffy's first fight with Moria.
Obnoxious parallels aside, Luffy needs to be the big hero of this arc. And I don't see Luffy being the big hero of the arc if he both defeats Katakuri and helps feed Big Mom the cake. That is too much, even for him.
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I will add that Luffy must win in situations where his nakama's lives are on the line. This isn't a situation where Mr Rob Lucci 2.0 turns his back on an unfinished fight to go kill Luffy's nakama, the way Lucci did in Enies Lobby. No one's lives are being directly threatened besides his own. Luffy draws urgency and power from wanting to protect his friends and continue adventuring. Tango-ing with Katakuri is a stall act to help along the completion of the cake, the cake is the main thing here, this fight is the sideshow but a significant one because it will help Luffy grow stronger for upcoming fights. There's no way and I know this will upset some people but there's no way a 19 year old pirate will take out a Yonkou commander who's been hyped up to be super human from the day he was born, especially when Katakuri himself seems to have nakama power helping him too. He is the ultimate creation of the BM pirates. He doesn't seem too sinister with what he wants to do here, he could have killed Brook and Chopper if he wanted to but waited for their Captain to appear instead, what about any of that suggests he is some cold blooded killer who absolutely must be stopped for Luffy to progress? Last I checked when Big Mom's kids got defeated it only enraged big mom even more, so they're going to calm her with a cake after all that effort only for Luffy to jump out of mirror world and telling BM lot that he's defeated Katakuri? Just to piss her off again and start this whole escape act all over again? Some of you need to follow the clues better, not just want what you as readers want even though plotwise it doesn't make sense. If one thing is clear it's that it is in the BM pirates best interest to help the strawhats or they will suffer the same fate as Opera and that one dude who had his life sucked from him beginning of the arc. We see the danger she poses to her kids when we see the horror on Smoothie's and Perospero's faces some chapters back. No one is safe here and everyone needs to hold hands even if momentarily to stop that Yonkou wrecking train. Defeating Katakuri isn't what needs to happen, Luffy will get a win of sorts but if anyone here thinks Katakuri will be knocked unconscious, you're in for a rude awakening (pun intended).
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It is clear from what has been shown that Kaido losing to Luffy is being set up as the next big "earth changing" moment ala CP9, Doflamingo, Croc, etc.
So yeah, he's gonna beat Katakuri.
You can cool it with your play by play breakdowns, because remember.
It's not if he wins, it's how he wins. That's the magic dammit.
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The problem is that the magic is going to need to be split between Katakuri and Big Mom. You can't have a cake in fully defeating Katakuri and eat the cake as well by stopping Big Mom. Something has to budge for the other to take the main spotlight by being possible.
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Luffy is not gonna defeat katakuri,and he is not gonna defeat kaidou either,not by himself
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It is clear from what has been shown that Kaido losing to Luffy is being set up as the next big "earth changing" moment ala CP9, Doflamingo, Croc, etc.
So yeah, he's gonna beat Katakuri.
You can cool it with your play by play breakdowns, because remember.
It's not if he wins, it's how he wins. That's the magic dammit.
What will he achieve from beating Katakuri please explain? Give people the impression that he is in fact progressing to the point where he can beat Kaido? We all know he's not going to beat Kaido you just need to go back as far as Big Mom reaffirming that a few chapters ago. Luffy doesn't need to defeat Katakuri to get stronger and the plot doesn't require him to defeat Katakuri, the plot requires Sanji to bake the cake and bring a smile of sweetness to Big Mom's face. Plot-wise that's the key thing to consider. I don't need to break things down play by play just have to appeal to your common sense. Maybe he will beat him no one is ruling that out but to say he MUST is a far cry..
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Maybe to get into Gear 5th Luffy has to start with Gear Fourth? That would be cool, though probably we will see 3rd form of G4 first..
One form for sure is going to be Vulcanized Luffy to fight Akainu. maybe gear 5 or rear gesr
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One form for sure is going to be Vulcanized Luffy to fight Akainu. maybe gear 5 or rear gesr
haki already does what vulcanization was supposed to do.
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What will he achieve from beating Katakuri please explain? Give people the impression that he is in fact progressing to the point where he can beat Kaido? We all know he's not going to beat Kaido you just need to go back as far as Big Mom reaffirming that a few chapters ago. Luffy doesn't need to defeat Katakuri to get stronger and the plot doesn't require him to defeat Katakuri, the plot requires Sanji to bake the cake and bring a smile of sweetness to Big Mom's face. Plot-wise that's the key thing to consider. I don't need to break things down play by play just have to appeal to your common sense. Maybe he will beat him no one is ruling that out but to say he MUST is a far cry..
This is a Shonen Manga. A fighting manga.
Luffy is going to beat Katakuri, because he has to, because if he doesn't than there is no forward momentum for the rest of the story. He won't beat Kaido, he won't beat Akainu, and he won't be Blackbeard One Piece already had it's big "You're not ready for this" moment before the timeskip, and I doubt there will be another before this wraps up.
Will he beat him Rob Lucci style? Jury is still out on that, but Luffy is going to "win" regardless, probably by some ass pull power up. They are cleary foreshadowing that an awakening gomu-gomu fruit is in the cards and will probably by the key to beating Kaido.
And of course he's going to fucking beat Kaido, that's what the entire last 5 years has been building up to. Kaido's being set up as the Yonko who is going to go down next.
One Piece is a wonderful manga, but it's quite easy to see where things go, most of the time. This is one of them.
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Yeah, hardening of the rubber is already achieved through haki. Haki related power ups are annoying because of the introduction that haki can be depleted so having a form that ramps up the haki usage is just short lived burst of power and not really a sustainable power up. I want to see awakening somehow making all his base and gear based moves become more effective. That would be lovely to see. So the relevance of his base combat ability and existing gears don't remain redundant against the Big fish.
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I've been noticing that a lot of the powerhouses in this series use some type of weapon. I think it would be interesting for Luffy to use gloves or brass knuckles. Coated with haki, they can probably increase his punching power by a good margin.
I can't see him using any other type of weapon
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This is a Shonen Manga. A fighting manga.
Luffy is going to beat Katakuri, because he has to, because if he doesn't than there is no forward momentum for the rest of the story. He won't beat Kaido, he won't beat Akainu, and he won't be Blackbeard One Piece already had it's big "You're not ready for this" moment before the timeskip, and I doubt there will be another before this wraps up.
Will he beat him Rob Lucci style? Jury is still out on that, but Luffy is going to "win" regardless, probably by some ass pull power up. They are cleary foreshadowing that an awakening gomu-gomu fruit is in the cards and will probably by the key to beating Kaido.
And of course he's going to fucking beat Kaido, that's what the entire last 5 years has been building up to. Kaido's being set up as the Yonko who is going to go down next.
One Piece is a wonderful manga, but it's quite easy to see where things go, most of the time. This is one of them.
I clearly meant that Luffy isn't going to 1 v 1 Kaido in the traditional sense. Like Nami established in the fight against Cracker, not everything has to be 1 v 1 this is a pirate's world after all, nothing is unfair if it helps you attain victory in the end. It's a shounen but it's rarely gone into the unbelievable asspull power up territory. Yeah Luffy said he won't run away anymore so why is he running from Big Mom? Why was he unable to do anything against Fujitora, earning Fujitora's respect actually was what saved him (sounds like something I'm suggesting will happen here with Katakuri) yes a timeskip has happened but it doesn't mean he's pirate king level and he's going to start defeating anything he wants to defeat just because he says so. Katakuri makes fun of his proclamations in this very chapter. If we followed your logic Luffy wouldn't have ran away from Smoker, ran away from Magellan, ran away from Kizaru, ran away from Akainu, get blown away by Kuma, get blown away by Fujitora, ran away from Big Mom. I mean it's a shounen right? He should have defeated all of them just because he's the main character. Your version of how things should be sound like how Natsu in fairy tail deals with all his enemies. Probably a fairy tail fan.
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I clearly meant that Luffy isn't going to 1 v 1 Kaido in the traditional sense. Like Nami established in the fight against Cracker, not everything has to be 1 v 1 this is a pirate's world after all, nothing is unfair if it helps you attain victory in the end. It's a shounen but it's rarely gone into the unbelievable asspull power up territory. Yeah Luffy said he won't run away anymore so why is he running from Big Mom? Why was he unable to do anything against Fujitora, earning Fujitora's respect actually was what saved him (sounds like something I'm suggesting will happen here with Katakuri) yes a timeskip has happened but it doesn't mean he's pirate king level and he's going to start defeating anything he wants to defeat just because he says so. Katakuri makes fun of his proclamations in this very chapter. If we followed your logic Luffy wouldn't have ran away from Smoker, ran away from Magellan, ran away from Kizaru, ran away from Akainu, get blown away by Kuma, get blown away by Fujitora, ran away from Big Mom. I mean it's a shounen right? He should have defeated all of them just because he's the main character. Your version of how things should be sound like how Natsu in fairy tail deals with all his enemies. Probably a fairy tail fan.
Cute little dig there. Not true, but we don't need to call each other names here buddy.
I'm not going to break down everything you said, because that takes too damn long. Yes Luffy has ran from some enemies, but only once (twice with Magellen I suppose) was it a clear "We can't beat this" and that was Kizaru.
We've past that point in the story. Kaido is going down (your right that it probably won't be a full 1v1, but that will be part of it) and Katakuri is going down as well. Maybe not by an asspull power up. One Piece is better than that.
It's quite easy to see, and we don't need to resort to petty insults to do so.
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kaido fight in my head atm is basically Luffy meets him early on the arc, goes g4 does no dmg and gets bopped. Law finds out about kidd, frees him and they together with luffy fight him 3v1 and get beaten, cue moriah sad backstory to make us feel a bit sad for him and 1000man nightmare g4 luffy, kaido still standing after all that tho. All the other arc fights end and everyone is in the same area, a tired luffy is trying to protect his Nakama and the straw hats ask moriah to take their shadows and help luffy. Luffy does a combo where each attack is reminiscent of a certain straw hat, loses steam near the end and for his attack, can only do a simple gomu punch and falls. Kaido walks for a bit while talking tough and falls just before reaching the SHs
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Cute little dig there. Not true, but we don't need to call each other names here buddy.
I'm not going to break down everything you said, because that takes too damn long. Yes Luffy has ran from some enemies, but only once (twice with Magellen I suppose) was it a clear "We can't beat this" and that was Kizaru.
We've past that point in the story. Kaido is going down (your right that it probably won't be a full 1v1, but that will be part of it) and Katakuri is going down as well. Maybe not by an asspull power up. One Piece is better than that.
It's quite easy to see, and we don't need to resort to petty insults to do so.
I think we went there when you commented on how not everything needs a step by step breakdown, how else can you build a convincing argument if you don't explain your rationale to the reader first. I can just say "Luffy will win but not win" and you can say ""Luffy will win and win convincingly" doesn't exactly provide a good/interesting read because at the end of the day that is essentially what we're both trying to say. Far from convincing anyone with short and to the point opinions. I'm not trying to insult you, but honestly Natsu does in fact defeat everyone he faces through the whole I'm the main character and I must win route. And I think we agree that One Piece is in fact much better than that.
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I think we went there when you commented on how not everything needs a step by step breakdown, how else can you build a convincing argument if you don't explain your rationale to the reader first. I can just say "Luffy will win but not win" and you can say ""Luffy will win and win convincingly" doesn't exactly provide a good/interesting read because at the end of the day that is essentially what we're both trying to say. Far from convincing anyone with short and to the point opinions. I'm not trying to insult you, but honestly Natsu does in fact defeat everyone he faces through the whole I'm the main character and I must win route. And I think we agree that One Piece is in fact much better than that.
I find it funny you think that dig was directed at you.
It was at everyone here, because this happens every FUCKING time a chapter comes out. People read it, take one part of the chapter, and break it down to the scope of a high level governmental debriefing for about six days.
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This is a Shonen Manga. A fighting manga.
Luffy is going to beat Katakuri, because he has to, because if he doesn't than there is no forward momentum for the rest of the story. He won't beat Kaido, he won't beat Akainu, and he won't be Blackbeard One Piece already had it's big "You're not ready for this" moment before the timeskip, and I doubt there will be another before this wraps up.
Will he beat him Rob Lucci style? Jury is still out on that, but Luffy is going to "win" regardless, probably by some ass pull power up. They are cleary foreshadowing that an awakening gomu-gomu fruit is in the cards and will probably by the key to beating Kaido.
And of course he's going to fucking beat Kaido, that's what the entire last 5 years has been building up to. Kaido's being set up as the Yonko who is going to go down next.
One Piece is a wonderful manga, but it's quite easy to see where things go, most of the time. This is one of them.
Actually, it is an action-adventure manga. It heavily features fights, yes. But the main emphasis is placed on adventure. Oda has arcs where the emphasis is more on escaping or other shenanigans rather than fights. Impel Down was like that, and Whole Cake Island is pretty similar to Impel Down plot-wise. there doesn't have to be a conclusive fight in EVERY SINGLE ARC in this manga. Most of them, sure. But not every one. Zou is another example as well. Or Whiskey Peak. Jaya technically didn't even have a real fight with Bellamy getting knocked out in one punch. Whole Cake Island is anything but the typical "beat up the main bad guy and save the day" arc, so you can't pull the "it's a shonen" excuse. Luffy needs to win against Katakuri as much as he needed to win against the Boa Sisters at Amazon Lily, in which it turned out that he didn't need to overpower them into submission after all because of higher plot priorities and complex moralities at play.
Awakening can go in all sorts of directions. It is definitely building up to something. it could be the key to defeating Kaido, like you said. It could show up in this fight for Luffy. But it does not have to be a fight winning game changer that knocks Katakuri out for the rest of the arc.
Luff doesn't need to win because Katakuri isn't the real threat that can never be swayed. Big Mom is that threat, and even she has the solution of wanting to eat a cake rather than needing to face a physical defeat. Katakuri cares about his family. The whole Charlotte family cowers before Big Mom when she rampages. If the Charlottes and Totland need help if Big Mom gets too out of control, that is enough of a reason to not continue fighting Luffy. A man who he seems to respect to some degree given the compliments he's given him and constantly testing his Devil Fruit powers by copying them. We don't need a "you're not ready for this", but we don't need a win either. All we need is a "wow, you can give me a decent fight. You're making solid progress and have a lot of potential. You can catch up soon enough."
He won't defeat Kaido on his own though. That is at least going to be a teamup fight at first like Luffy and Law versus Doflamingo and Trebol. He will probably fight solo against him for the last third or so of the battle, and find some means of defeating him that isn't just a big punch since Oda mentioned that in an interview. He doesn't need to fully defeat Katakuri for that, especially when luffy can get stronger on the way to and during Wano Country just like what happens between Water 7 and Enies Lobby.
Characters like Akainu and Blackbeard are for the end of the One Piece. They aren't going to be fought soon after Wano Country. So we don't need to see Luffy consistently rising up the ceiling. Once he Awakens, he is pretty much around the ceiling he's going to be around at the end of the series. Same for the rest of the Straw Hats by the end of Wano Country. They'll still grow a bit, but not too much.
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BM taking a detour because of nuts….that nymphomaniac^^
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I honestly don't know how people manage to engage in the same discussion, arguing the same point over and over again, for pages. I made two posts on the Luffy x Katakuri outcome discussion and I am already bored of it.
kaido fight in my head atm is basically Luffy meets him early on the arc, goes g4 does no dmg and gets bopped. Law finds out about kidd, frees him and they together with luffy fight him 3v1 and get beaten, cue moriah sad backstory to make us feel a bit sad for him and 1000man nightmare g4 luffy, kaido still standing after all that tho.
Omg, I completely ignored the chances of Moriah appearing there.
All the SH, the Heart Pirates, the Kidd Pirates, the On Air Pirates, the Hawkins Pirates, the Drake Pirates, the Mink tribe (or at least the main fighters), the remnants of the Whitebeard Pirates, Kin'emon group, the Kouzuki allies, the Shogun, the Shogun allies, Kaido, the Beast Pirates… plus chances of Weevil, Caribou and now Moriah making an appearance. I wanted to be hyped, but I can't help but think it will be an unholy mess.
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I find it funny you think that dig was directed at you.
It was at everyone here, because this happens every FUCKING time a chapter comes out. People read it, take one part of the chapter, and break it down to the scope of a high level governmental debriefing for about six days.
Your comment followed directly after my post so I thought it was directed at me but I can see now that it was more generalized to the forum goers, but that's still myself included. The high level governmental debriefing especially happens when there's a chapter break the following week and we need to satiate our cravings. Lol
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haki already does what vulcanization was supposed to do.
yea of course vs magma… really or its a joke?
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Your comment followed directly after my post so I thought it was directed at me but I can see now that it was more generalized to the forum goers, but that's still myself included. The high level governmental debriefing especially happens when there's a chapter break the following week and we need to satiate our cravings. Lol
It's cool
Also I think we can assume that Wano is probably the last milestone arc (Alabasta, Marineford, etc) before we enter the climax. There will be mini arcs in between, but I think I can safety assume the road map from here on out is Wano -> Final War.
I've always viewed One Piece as divided into quarters, and so far it's been. (Alabasta-Marineford-Wano-Final). We'll see if that changes.
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It's cool
Also I think we can assume that Wano is probably the last milestone arc (Alabasta, Marineford, etc) before we enter the climax. There will be mini arcs in between, but I think I can safety assume the road map from here on out is Wano -> Final War.
I've always viewed One Piece as divided into quarters, and so far it's been. (Alabasta-Marineford-Wano-Final). We'll see if that changes.
The emphasis has been placed on Luffy gathering allies from all over the world to help him achieve his dream. I want to see all these characters/allies old and new coming to help Luffy in their own special little way when that final war comes, would serve as the ultimate pay off of having been invested in all these characters for so many years.
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lol[hide][/hide]
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The emphasis has been placed on Luffy gathering allies from all over the world to help him achieve his dream. I want to see all these characters/allies old and new coming to help Luffy in their own special little way when that final war comes, would serve as the ultimate pay off of having been invested in all these characters for so many years.
I am more concerned about seeing who Blackbeard's allies might be. He should have more people on his side than just his crew and the ships they float on. The only person I think that might already be allied with them is Caribou. And Kuzan obviously doesn't count since he will defect at some point.
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@Count:
I am more concerned about seeing who Blackbeard's allies might be. He should have more people on his side than just his crew and the ships they float on. The only person I think that might already be allied with them is Caribou. And Kuzan obviously doesn't count since he will defect at some point.
Caribou? Swamp man? Remind me what happened after his encounter with the beast pirates I actually forgot. I vaguely remember him helping out Granny dearest. Also, Blackbeard allies…that's an interesting one do you think any of the supernova will side with him? Any powerhouses that do join him will be brand spanking new because I can't think of any existing characters that would join his cause.
lol[hide][qimg]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DMifRnmWkAAfb4T.jpg[/qimg][/hide]
Loool he's Gon super saiyan.