Since when was No More Heroes indie?
Grasshopper Manufacture, Suda51's studio, is a rather small studio, and unlike the other No More Heroes games this one doesn't seem to be published by Ubisoft.
Since when was No More Heroes indie?
Grasshopper Manufacture, Suda51's studio, is a rather small studio, and unlike the other No More Heroes games this one doesn't seem to be published by Ubisoft.
Since when was No More Heroes indie?
Besides what will carry over from the previous two games, it seems a theme of TSA will include Travis' involvement in other indie games. It's not clear yet if he will simply explore levels resembling those games, or if he will kill the protagonists of those (much more likely). If i had to guess, the game will be split in 2 main sections as usual: "2d pixel art" sections where you will explore/kill indie game protagonists inside their worlds (in a similar fashion to the side jobs in NMH1 and 2 especially); and after you clear them the main story of Travis will advance against the Bat Dude. He seems to be the father of Bad Girl from NMH1, or someone related to her, or some other blondie Travis met/killed in the past.
Wasn't Golf Story a SU thing?
Mario+Rabbids is pretty fun. anyone else playing it yet?
Mario+Rabbids is pretty fun. anyone else playing it yet?
Not yet, but knowing it as Co-Op actually kinda has me interested in picking it up.
How good are Pokemony Super Mystery Dungeon or Bravely Default.
Have this 30% Birthday discount from MyNintendo and thinking of cashing it in.
Bravely Default is an old school Final Fantasy game with an exploitable-in-a-good-way battle system and good characters, pretty well-written…until the last half/third of the game which is highly controversial. I enjoyed it a lot personally.
I only ever played the first Pokemon Mystery Dungeon and bailed early because I found it more tiring than fun, can't vouch for it.
Switch sales in Japan have surpassed 1.5mil units
Mario+Rabbids is pretty fun. anyone else playing it yet?
Yeah, I'm nearing the end of the first chapter. It's definitely much better than the Paper Mario games of the last few years.
How good are Pokemony Super Mystery Dungeon or Bravely Default.
Have this 30% Birthday discount from MyNintendo and thinking of cashing it in.
They're both several years old and you can already get physical copies for 30% off MSRP or less.
Mario + Rabbids spoilers:
! This is officially the best thing ever.
!
So … today i found a used Switch on eBay for 299 €. The description said the previous owner played only 2 hours.
It also includes Mario Kart 8. And Splatoon 2. And a Pro Controller. And a case.
I klicked that Buy-button so hard!!!
I also already ordered Zelda AND i have a 2 week vacation now.
Now i just hope everything will really be okay with it. I'm a bit sceptic because of the low price.
Lost Sphear is getting an earlier release in Japan. Does anyone know If I can play it in another language than Japanese on the Switch since the Switch is region free but the European release is not happening until January 2018?
So … today i found a used Switch on eBay for 299 €. The description said the previous owner played only 2 hours.
It also includes Mario Kart 8. And Splatoon 2. And a Pro Controller. And a case.
I klicked that Buy-button so hard!!!I also already ordered Zelda AND i have a 2 week vacation now.
Now i just hope everything will really be okay with it. I'm a bit sceptic because of the low price.
If something goes wrong, don't hesitate to open a case with eBay. I recently jumped on a bargain that turned out to be a scam (it never arrived and the guy was banned from eBay before it even shipped), but was easily able to get my money back thanks to eBay's buyer-centric conflict resolution system.
If something goes wrong, don't hesitate to open a case with eBay. I recently jumped on a bargain that turned out to be a scam (it never arrived and the guy was banned from eBay before it even shipped), but was easily able to get my money back thanks to eBay's buyer-centric conflict resolution system.
Yes i know, thanks. :)
I also paid with Paypal and there shouldn't be any problem to get the money back if it's a scam.
And the package is already on it's way so in any case … i'm getting something. XD
It's just weird ... you could at least get 480 € for that package. But i probably was just really lucky. I hope.
Yes i know, thanks. :)
I also paid with Paypal and there shouldn't be any problem to get the money back if it's a scam.
And the package is already on it's way so in any case … i'm getting something. XDIt's just weird ... you could at least get 480 € for that package. But i probably was just really lucky. I hope.
The package I never got was also on its way. :P
https://mynintendonews.com/2017/08/31/nintendo-has-been-ordered-to-pay-10000000-due-to-a-patent-lawsuit-loss/
http://40.media.tumblr.com/e854bcf63559eb368f6d764eb764b91e/tumblr_nvnjwuFsC21qgdvrlo1_250.jpg
wait? they actually lost a lawsuit?! that's a first.
Anyone playing Mario+Rabbids Kingdom Battle? Because I have a blast right now playing it.
Anyone playing Mario+Rabbids Kingdom Battle? Because I have a blast right now playing it.
I am. It's easily one of the best games on Switch. I was iffy when I first heard about the Season Pass, but I'll be buying it in a heartbeat.
I am. It's easily one of the best games on Switch. I was iffy when I first heard about the Season Pass, but I'll be buying it in a heartbeat.
I'm still on the fence. The extra story content sounds great, but are we paying 20 bucks for one (possibly rehashed) level and a few weapons?
They have this.
World 4 spoilers
!
I am. It's easily one of the best games on Switch. I was iffy when I first heard about the Season Pass, but I'll be buying it in a heartbeat.
Nice. I just discovered the coop mode. If this rocks my brother and I will buy the shit out of this game.
I'm still on the fence. The extra story content sounds great, but are we paying 20 bucks for one (possibly rehashed) level and a few weapons?
Yeah, I guess it is a little too early to tell. At bare minimum, we're getting extra challenges for both the single player and co-op modes, as well as at least one new world, (which won't be out until next year, so I doubt it'll be rehashed) which should equivalent to a bit over 1/4 of the game. Value-wise, I don't think that's too bad, though it'll be more than worth it if the story content is more than just a single world.
Yeah, I guess it is a little too early to tell. At bare minimum, we're getting extra challenges for both the single player and co-op modes, as well as at least one new world, (which won't be out until next year, so I doubt it'll be rehashed) which should equivalent to a bit over 1/4 of the game. Value-wise, I don't think that's too bad, though it'll be more than worth it if the story content is more than just a single world.
I'm admittedly very tempted. However… there's another problem.
By the time the Breath of the Wild DLC started coming out, I'd already moved on to other games and never bothered playing much of it.
My Switch arrived, yay!! I got Zelda, Splatoon 2, Mario Kart 8 and 2 weeks of free time of which i will probably spent too much at home!
And i just realised it's actually my first Nintendo home console i own since the SNES.
According to that, the real reason is the Magypsies, which I guess is an interesting question. Aside from the moment where Lucas gets his powers (which can be retranslated), though, I don't think there's anything too bad about them? Having trans protagonists at all still isn't that common, and even though they are kind of a Japanese okama joke, I always did like how they defied gender norms. I first played the game back in high school (over 7 years ago?) and they helped introduce me to the fluidity of gender. Plus, the gag is something that fades after the introduction.
If I were to guess Itoi's motives with them, I'd say there's both some bad and good there. The bad is that one of the major themes in Mother 3 is the idea of unnaturally mixing opposing elements. This is true of the chimeras (different animals, or animals and robot parts) and the logo (wood and metal), and I'm sure that's where the idea of depicting the combination of man and woman as alien came from. The good is that there's a moral about looking past appearances, since they're given a lot of depth. They have distinct personalities, a range of moralities, and an interesting philosophy with regards their existence.
I'm curious about how the trans folk here who have played the game regard them, though.
According to that, the real reason is the Magypsies, which I guess is an interesting question. Aside from the moment where Lucas gets his powers (which can be retranslated), though, I don't think there's anything too bad about them? Having trans protagonists at all still isn't that common, and even though they are kind of a Japanese okama joke, I always did like how they defied gender norms. I first played the game back in high school (over 7 years ago?) and they helped introduce me to the fluidity of gender. Plus, the gag is something that fades after the introduction.
If I were to guess Itoi's motives with them, I'd say there's both some bad and good there. The bad is that one of the major themes in Mother 3 is the idea of unnaturally mixing opposing elements. This is true of the chimeras (different animals, or animals and robot parts) and the logo (wood and metal), and I'm sure that's where the idea of depicting the combination of man and woman as alien came from. The good is that there's a moral about looking past appearances, since they're given a lot of depth. They have distinct personalities, a range of moralities, and an interesting philosophy with regards their existence.
I'm curious about how the trans folk here who have played the game regard them, though.
The chimeras were forced into new bodies against their will, while the Magypsies all either chose their current form or were born that way (I forget how it worked, or if it was even explained).
! Even the evil one willingly accepted Porky's technology in order to become stronger.
Didn't the Rhythm Heaven devs literally confirm the other day that the series is NOT dead?
Didn't the Rhythm Heaven devs literally confirm the other day that the series is NOT dead?
Yup, and I get the feeling someone even posted about that here. Seems like this opinion piece happened half a month ago and the news about RH not being dead came out as a response to the conversation generated.
As for the depiction of the Magypsies, I definitely find it to be a positive one. First of all, I don't find them to be in any way a representation of trans people, mostly because…. well, they're NOT trans individuals. It actually kind of annoys me that the internal asshole figured "girly characters with beards? must be trans characters!", and I find that outlook to be more regressive than anything contained in the game. Not that I find anything wrong with drag or that sort of thing, but the notion that drag = trans kinda missed the point of both (In that sense I actually buy that this person did work in NoA, given such a predictably sheltered notion of what things are XD)
As for what I think of them, overall I enjoy them quite a bit. Most games introduce femininity as a handicap or inherent weakness in a character. Mother 3 gives us characters that are both overly feminine in behavior and overly masculine in appearance, and while used for a lot of comedy they are also very obviously strong and capable. I do notice that initially people respond negatively to them assuming that it's another case of "oh, look at japan being insulting to people", and it doesn't help that the game theory guy (matpat?) even did a video calling magypsies out while knowing jack shit about them. So yea, a lot of people see them and immediately judge them as negative, which misses the points made by the game.
And yea, ultimately it figures that we can have all sort of topics in gaming but the topic of GENDER is approached and everyone loses their mind.
The only things I'd really change about the Magypsies is the name (considering, well, gypsy) and do some dialogue finagling to the scene where Ionia holds Lucas's head underwater.
I can see some objections to keeping their depiction as is, but I've always considered them as being portrayed as something closer to nonbinary or polygendered (is this a real term btw), rather than trans. Of course, there's the matter of the spoiler-y one, but I think that was more just a decision on their end than any sort of stance on the group as a whole…
The only things I'd really change about the Magypsies is the name (considering, well, gypsy) and do some dialogue finagling to the scene where Ionia holds Lucas's head underwater.
I can see some objections to keeping their depiction as is, but I've always considered them as being portrayed as something closer to nonbinary or polygendered (is this a real term btw), rather than trans. Of course, there's the matter of the spoiler-y one, but I think that was more just a decision on their end than any sort of stance on the group as a whole…
! I think the mechanization process may be symbolic of rage and our resulting loss of humanity. Sometimes we choose it, and sometimes it chooses us.
! I think the mechanization process may be symbolic of rage and our resulting loss of humanity. Sometimes we choose it, and sometimes it chooses us.
Pretty sure it's just symbolic of humans being pieces of shit who are destroying nature and the planet with technology.
About the Magypsies, and I know I'm gonna get a lot of flack sent my way about it, but I get the concerns about them.
Ultimately, I do think they're a positive portrayal, and if you actually pay attention to the dialog and what happens in the game, it's apparent a more apt description of them would be "genderqueer" and not Trans, but the surface level of their depiction DOES matter. First impressions DO matter. You have to hook people, and at first impression they seem to fall back on the typical Japanese "Okama" trope. That's what I got during my first playthrough of them.
You have to play the game and actually read the dialog and understand who and what they are fully to get that they're more than their appearance and what have you.
Then there's the… I don't even know, was it meant as a joke? The scene where Ionia teaches Lucas PK Love. One of the pivotal moments with these characters includes a scene where child molestation is at least implied. I do NOT think that's what actually happened, pretty sure they just held Lucas' head underwater to awaken the PSI, but a LOT of people read it that way, and I'm pretty sure it was at least supposed to be suggestive.
Throw all of this in and then remember we're dealing with "Gotta remove Boob sliders from Xenoblade Chronicles X because being able to make bigger boobed female characters isn't family friendly" Nintendo and it makes perfect sense that they wouldn't want to touch the Magypsies with a 10 foot pole.
They would either have to completely remove all references to Gender with them which would probably include heavy changes to their sprites, or change all the dialog to suck out all nuance and make their true nature readily and incredibly apparent the first time you meet them. Knowing Nintendo, I would assume the former.
Either way it'd be more work and invite more controversy either from "Parents Groups" if they left it too unchanged, or purist Mother 3 fans if they changed too much, so they probably don't think it's worth it.
This all makes me incredibly sad, but it's the state of things.
About the Magypsies, and I know I'm gonna get a lot of flack sent my way about it, but I get the concerns about them.
Ultimately, I do think they're a positive portrayal, and if you actually pay attention to the dialog and what happens in the game, it's apparent a more apt description of them would be "genderqueer" and not Trans, but the surface level of their depiction DOES matter. First impressions DO matter. You have to hook people, and at first impression they seem to fall back on the typical Japanese "Okama" trope. That's what I got during my first playthrough of them.
You have to play the game and actually read the dialog and understand who and what they are fully to get that they're more than their appearance and what have you.
Then there's the… I don't even know, was it meant as a joke? The scene where Ionia teaches Lucas PK Love. One of the pivotal moments with these characters includes a scene where child molestation is at least implied. I do NOT think that's what actually happened, pretty sure they just held Lucas' head underwater to awaken the PSI, but a LOT of people read it that way, and I'm pretty sure it was at least supposed to be suggestive.
Throw all of this in and then remember we're dealing with "Gotta remove Boob sliders from Xenoblade Chronicles X because being able to make bigger boobed female characters isn't family friendly" Nintendo and it makes perfect sense that they wouldn't want to touch the Magypsies with a 10 foot pole.
They would either have to completely remove all references to Gender with them which would probably include heavy changes to their sprites, or change all the dialog to suck out all nuance and make their true nature readily and incredibly apparent the first time you meet them. Knowing Nintendo, I would assume the former.
Either way it'd be more work and invite more controversy either from "Parents Groups" if they left it too unchanged, or purist Mother 3 fans if they changed too much, so they probably don't think it's worth it.
This all makes me incredibly sad, but it's the state of things.
First of all, flak flak flak flak
Second, wouldn't you say that that first impression you personally had towards the magypsies is the result of your own prior assumptions as a one piece reader? Do you think a trans gamer would just naturally see an okama and think "trans character"?
And yea, of course they do wind up alluding to okama and drag and things of the sort… but your argument is like saying that watching something like Birdcage should immediately insult me because on the surface it's gay guys being feminine and doing drag. Do you think drag is by nature bound to insult trans people just because the public as a whole fails to understand the difference?
Third, the article already mentioned the obvious fact that you have to change the hot springs scene, probably why no one else is giving it much attention since it's widely acknowledged that that would just not fly here. Reworking scenes isn't hard and only the dumbest of hardcore mother 3 fans would cry about that omission, since the intended tone of weirdness and growing up being an awkward, uncomfortable process is something that remains regardless through other moments in the game.
Lastly, I simply highly disagree that the Magypsies would need to be changed at all. I agree with the changes to the hot springs scene, naturally, but removing or changing the sprites of the magypsies entirely to me is like the stance of appealing to people who will be easily insulted regardless and who won't even play the game and only bitch from a distant, ignorant perspective. Removing the notion of Magypsies as being stronger while being both genders removes from their core characterization and takes away a positive feeling from Itoi, treating it like something like gender duality is wrong or shameful.
I should have made it clear I wasn't defending the person in the article's choice to refer to the Magypsies as "Trans" Characters. That was clearly a mistake and I don't think these characters count as Trans at all.
My knowledge on One Piece does inform me in the fact that it alerted me to what the "Okama" trope is exactly in Japan…. But the characters are still depicted as masculine looking characters (complete with stubble) wearing and frequently referencing feminine things and using hearts in their dialog.
That's a stereotype that crosses cultures.
Someone who knows a thing or two about Gender Expression will understand that these are Genderqueer characters. That's readily apparent to me and I assume you as well. To a lay person however, they easily look like swishy men in dresses which is what the bigots like to say trans people are.
So I won't see a Trans person going "Oh, that's a Trans character" but I can see a Trans person going "…. Oh god, it's a carricature of what a bigot thinks a trans person is..." and not liking that.
You asked if my bias as a One Piece fan informed my reading of the characters, so I'll ask you if your knowledge of gender expression issues and what a Genderqueer person is, as well as your knowledge of the game's plot and the Maypsies' ultimate role in the game is informing your reading of the characters?
When we're talking about them selling the game to a mass audience we have to think about how a lay person is going to react, and a lay person is watching the bigots of the world try to portray Trans people as dangerous men who put on skirts in order to sneak into womens' bathrooms and molest children.
1991 was 26 YEARS ago, well before LGBT people got the level of acceptance we have now, and even back then people had a problem and protested the depiction of the villain in Silence of the Lambs due to the percieved gayness and/or transness of the character.
Hell, some people STILL try to claim the movie is straight up transphobic despite this dialog actually being in the movie the very moment the villain's gender identity is brought up:
Clarice: That doesn't make any sense. Transsexuals are typically very passive*.
Hannibal Lecter: Billy is not a real transsexual*, but he thinks he is. He tries to be. He's tried to be a lot of things, I expect.
Clarice Starling: And you said that I was very close to the way we would catch him. What did you mean, doctor?
Hannibal Lecter: There are three major centers for transsexual* surgery: Johns Hopkins, the University of Minnesota, and Columbus Medical Center. I wouldn't be surprised if Billy had applied for sex reassignment at one or all of them, and been rejected.
Clarice Starling: On what basis would they reject him?
Hannibal Lecter: Look for severe childhood disturbances associated with violence. Our Billy wasn't born a criminal, Clarice. He was made one through years of systematic abuse. Billy hates his own identity, you see, and he thinks that makes him a transsexual. But his pathology is a thousand times more savage and more terrifying.
*[Remember, 1991. "Transsexual" was still considered the "Correct" term to use at the time.]
The filmmakers made sure that in the EXACT scene where Buffalo Bill possibly being trans is even brought up, they IMMEDIATELY Killed it by having Lecter flat out say "He's not a real trans[person]" but that didn't stop people getting mad.
This is a case where I defend the film and I disagree wholeheartedly that it's in any way offensive, but I still realize people got mad.
Nintendo is stupid afraid of people getting mad. On both sides.
It is a harmless little Virtual Console release so the argument can be made that Nintendo could easily release it and nobody would care or raise a stink since the only people downloading it are fans, but Nintendo still thinks like a company and they may be worried about that one Trans activist gamer who never heard much of it before, only knows that "Mother 3" is a big deal and picks it up to see what the deal is and doesn't hang around to learn context, just sees the surface issues with the characters and gets mad and raises a stink. TBH, I could see them being much more worried about the Other side however.
The "conservative parent" demo who picks up the game on the eShop for their kid thinking it's a harmless cutesy looking game and seeing the Magypsies and yells at Nintendo for trying to "Brainwash their kids into accepting this liberal gender crap"
I should stress very heavily here that much of this isn't my own personal opinion.
If Nintendo were to ask me what they should do I'd say maybe rework the hotspring scene and they'd be good.
What I'm doing here however is I'm trying to put myself into the shoes of the people Nintendo might be worried about upsetting and explain maybe why they might be hesitant to release it no matter how wrong or stupid their reasoning might be.
I don't really see the point of trying to understand or defend Nintendo's possibly-dumb reasons for rumored decisions. Especially since if it did happen to be what you conjecture, then Nintendo is part of the problem with regards to progressive social views and the fear to possibly disrupt the status quo through portrayal in games. Well, not like we didn't already know that. "No way, Link couldn't possibly be female! Then who would save Zelda!?"
Ok, sorry. I'll stop posting about this then. I apologize.
I should have made it clear I wasn't defending the person in the article's choice to refer to the Magypsies as "Trans" Characters. That was clearly a mistake and I don't think these characters count as Trans at all.
My knowledge on One Piece does inform me in the fact that it alerted me to what the "Okama" trope is exactly in Japan…. But the characters are still depicted as masculine looking characters (complete with stubble) wearing and frequently referencing feminine things and using hearts in their dialog.
That's a stereotype that crosses cultures.Someone who knows a thing or two about Gender Expression will understand that these are Genderqueer characters. That's readily apparent to me and I assume you as well. To a lay person however, they easily look like swishy men in dresses which is what the bigots like to say trans people are.
So I won't see a Trans person going "Oh, that's a Trans character" but I can see a Trans person going "…. Oh god, it's a carricature of what a bigot thinks a trans person is..." and not liking that.
You asked if my bias as a One Piece fan informed my reading of the characters, so I'll ask you if your knowledge of gender expression issues and what a Genderqueer person is, as well as your knowledge of the game's plot and the Maypsies' ultimate role in the game is informing your reading of the characters?
When we're talking about them selling the game to a mass audience we have to think about how a lay person is going to react, and a lay person is watching the bigots of the world try to portray Trans people as dangerous men who put on skirts in order to sneak into womens' bathrooms and molest children.
1991 was 26 YEARS ago, well before LGBT people got the level of acceptance we have now, and even back then people had a problem and protested the depiction of the villain in Silence of the Lambs due to the percieved gayness and/or transness of the character.
Hell, some people STILL try to claim the movie is straight up transphobic despite this dialog actually being in the movie the very moment the villain's gender identity is brought up:
The filmmakers made sure that in the EXACT scene where Buffalo Bill possibly being trans is even brought up, they IMMEDIATELY Killed it by having Lecter flat out say "He's not a real trans[person]" but that didn't stop people getting mad.
This is a case where I defend the film and I disagree wholeheartedly that it's in any way offensive, but I still realize people got mad.
Nintendo is stupid afraid of people getting mad. On both sides.
It is a harmless little Virtual Console release so the argument can be made that Nintendo could easily release it and nobody would care or raise a stink since the only people downloading it are fans, but Nintendo still thinks like a company and they may be worried about that one Trans activist gamer who never heard much of it before, only knows that "Mother 3" is a big deal and picks it up to see what the deal is and doesn't hang around to learn context, just sees the surface issues with the characters and gets mad and raises a stink. TBH, I could see them being much more worried about the Other side however.
The "conservative parent" demo who picks up the game on the eShop for their kid thinking it's a harmless cutesy looking game and seeing the Magypsies and yells at Nintendo for trying to "Brainwash their kids into accepting this liberal gender crap"
I should stress very heavily here that much of this isn't my own personal opinion.
If Nintendo were to ask me what they should do I'd say maybe rework the hotspring scene and they'd be good.
What I'm doing here however is I'm trying to put myself into the shoes of the people Nintendo might be worried about upsetting and explain maybe why they might be hesitant to release it no matter how wrong or stupid their reasoning might be.
It was obvious that you weren't agreeing on Magypsies being trans, but it still continues to be the case, from what I read, that you are assuming a lot out of a lay interpretation. Not only that, but there's unreasonable defensiveness in these assumptions.
And then you're also not answering a question I asked you while further giving me reason to continue asking it: do you feel like drag is intrinsically offensive to trans people? It was evident in your first post as well as in your elaboration that you attribute drag to a genderqueer status of some sort, but I don't think this is necessarily the case. Nor do I agree that they are by default caricatures of trans folk, and instantly classifying the magypsies as caricatures fails to understand the nuance of drag in media.
Now, I see that you constantly insist that these aren't your views, just how other people MIGHT perceive them. But your own views obviously seem to color what you think the lay person perceives.
When I think of a lay person in this game, I just assume the same exact thing Alec (one of the Mother 3 characters) says right before introducing the Magypsies: "they're pretty weird". A lot of gamers in my mind would probably just figure "wow, this is so japan" and the like. My perspective of a lay individual playing this game is based on the fact that they're playing the game to experience the story and the world, and ultimately I severely doubt that most normal people would let that be interrupted by the identity politics the dysfunctional few insist on inserting into everything, regardless of which political angle they come from.
Which is where I feel your view doesn't hold. Immediately seeing drag and assuming it to be a caricature of yourself is a very defensive perspective to have, and it's weird to me that you assume all trans girls would feel the same. Don't you think it's possible trans girls would be happy about these characters being powerful and respected in their world despite seeming different? Don't you envision the possibility that trans girls could feel reassured by the fact that femininity is portrayed well? Or the fact that even the main female character in the game is respected and strong and still respected as female despite being masculine in behavior?
And yea, like you say obviously my own perspective and knowledge obviously inform my opinion as well. But I also happen to remember both of our first reactions, since you DID stream this game. My initial reaction when I played the game was simply that the magypsies were being particularly harsh to flint due to treating human life as insignificant. Meanwhile, I recall your reaction as instantly disgusted due to the aforementioned fact that you were primed to dislike them, whether because of okama or because of having previously seen the matpat video calling out magypsies as sub-human representation (despite them being superhuman). I even recall having this same exact discussion with you when your stream ended that night.
Ultimately this just goes to show that there is significant inconsistency alone in how different trans people view the characters. Regardless, we can all agree that once the game progresses the characters nevertheless shine through as powerful and likable. Which is ultimately what matters, because what that means is that all the shallow people who play this game to immediately rouse the masses and complain about the gay agenda or whatever will very obviously be the crowd that didn't play the game and just looked for ways to be insulted.
Which is in the end why I don't think using the magypsies as a reason for not localizing the game is justifiable. On the social front, it makes no sense that something as innocent as fruitful as gender expression in a very deep and artful game should be understood by people to be reasonably censored. On the political front, it makes no sense to put more value on the possibility of haters hating something than putting value on the fact that it is a positive message to a lot of people. I mean, think about it… do you think we should be hiding trans-ness and gender fluidity and the like just because someone in the right will be pissed? That's ultimately what your argument is sounding like, and even if you say it's not your opinion but that of others, your post still stands as a defense of that view. And I just cannot agree with that, even when trying to just think of the business side of it, a business side where Nintendo can so very easily limit release of this title to digital or even USE the inevitable maelstrom to raise awareness of the game and improve sales. Parents complain about their kids? Bam, pg-13 the game and then it's on parents to be around their kids when they play the game to discuss touchy subjects, which I think is actually optimal given all the issues of mortality the game touches on.
Heck, I'll even understand the sheer difficulty of translating such a huge game and talking about how the workload and cost would not be offset by the potential sales. But defending this not being localized because trans people? Nope, that's just not right to me.
Ok, sorry. I'll stop posting about this then. I apologize.
Ugh, this is so goddamn disrespectful. To yourself for not having the backbone to understand that your views have value, and to others for failing to take their time and arguments into consideration to instead cower back and dismiss their entire points as just an attack on you. I mean seriously, do you just come around here for people to agree with you and play victim to escape when they don't? Could you please realize how obnoxious that is? You're not a shitty person, so stop acting with the shame of one.
I was not telling you to shut up, Rin. I just think it's personal opinions that are worth discussing rather than all these weird what-ifs. For the record, in my first couple of runs through this game (before I'd ever spoken to a trans person) I thought the magypsies were bizarre beings that gave no shits about anything and were overly affectionate with strangers. Not "oh no this is creepy; I guess this is what all those yucky LGBT people are like!"
Ugh, this is so goddamn disrespectful. To yourself for not having the backbone to understand that your views have value, and to others for failing to take their time and arguments into consideration to instead cower back and dismiss their entire points as just an attack on you. I mean seriously, do you just come around here for people to agree with you and play victim to escape when they don't? Could you please realize how obnoxious that is? You're not a shitty person, so stop acting with the shame of one.
If I just wanted people to agree with me and duck out when they don't, I think several political discussions I've had with certain folks around here would have gone on as long as they did.
Fool's post seemed to imply that I missed the mark and that I was saying stuff people already knew (Nintendo = Makes dumb decisions in the name of being "Family Friendly" etc) and I wasn't adding to the discussion as a result.
I couldn't argue with his logic and I was at work at the time so I figured I should just bow out. If that's not the case then cool, cuz I do have stuff to say I think.
It was obvious that you weren't agreeing on Magypsies being trans, but it still continues to be the case, from what I read, that you are assuming a lot out of a lay interpretation. Not only that, but there's unreasonable defensiveness in these assumptions.
And then you're also not answering a question I asked you while further giving me reason to continue asking it: do you feel like drag is intrinsically offensive to trans people? It was evident in your first post as well as in your elaboration that you attribute drag to a genderqueer status of some sort, but I don't think this is necessarily the case. Nor do I agree that they are by default caricatures of trans folk, and instantly classifying the magypsies as caricatures fails to understand the nuance of drag in media.
I don’t see the Magypsies as drag and I don’t think I ever did. I know there are examples of certain Drag queens who will dress in drag while rocking beards, but my go-to impression of a drag queen is someone who… puts effort in I guess.
The stubble is probably the big thing that does it for me if I really think about it.
I think I’m just so used to pop culture portraying Trans people as “Deceptive Guys in Dresses” that I start to groan when I see what I feel are the tropes associated with it. And 5 O-clock shadow is one of those tropes.
Like, here’s an example of it happening in something western.
[hide]
Zapp: But wait baby! You didn’t show me your surprise![/hide]
The joke being that “Hey, she was trying to trick him! That’s what the surprise was!” And the audience is supposed to laugh at Zapp for having almost Gasp slept with a trans person. The trope of being unkempt in some way to still show masculinity somehow is common here. That’s why often you’ll see some 5 O-clock shadow for example or in the case of One Piece, noticeable leg hair.
Now, I see that you constantly insist that these aren't your views, just how other people MIGHT perceive them. But your own views obviously seem to color what you think the lay person perceives.
When I think of a lay person in this game, I just assume the same exact thing Alec (one of the Mother 3 characters) says right before introducing the Magypsies: "they're pretty weird". A lot of gamers in my mind would probably just figure "wow, this is so japan" and the like. My perspective of a lay individual playing this game is based on the fact that they're playing the game to experience the story and the world, and ultimately I severely doubt that most normal people would let that be interrupted by the identity politics the dysfunctional few insist on inserting into everything, regardless of which political angle they come from.
The more I think about it the more I think my thinking here might be a little knee jerk I guess. I’ve just seen this trope used so much that it gets to me when I see it, or at least what my mind perceives to be it. Mother 3 obviously ended up bucking trends rather than going along with them.
Which is where I feel your view doesn't hold. Immediately seeing drag and assuming it to be a caricature of yourself is a very defensive perspective to have, and it's weird to me that you assume all trans girls would feel the same.
Ok, here’s where I’m going to have to note something. I have NEVER said that whatsoever in any way shape or form.
I’ve not been trying to argue “This is what all Trans people think” I’ve been trying to argue “This is what some trans people think”. I know I’m not alone in this thinking obviously as I posted a link to someone who still thinks Silence of the Lambs is transphobic despite the movie flat out saying the character isn’t trans. I’m trying to explain that these tropes exist and why some trans people react to them with apprehension. Not why All of them do.
Don't you think it's possible trans girls would be happy about these characters being powerful and respected in their world despite seeming different? Don't you envision the possibility that trans girls could feel reassured by the fact that femininity is portrayed well? Or the fact that even the main female character in the game is respected and strong and still respected as female despite being masculine in behavior?
As I was never talking about All trans people then my answer to these questions are:
Absolutely, ultimately after getting past my own hangups, that’s how I see the characters too.
Yes, I do like that a lot.
And: Kumatora is goddamn awesome and I will fight anyone who says otherwise. I immediately loved her portrayal and always will.
And yea, like you say obviously my own perspective and knowledge obviously inform my opinion as well. But I also happen to remember both of our first reactions, since you DID stream this game. My initial reaction when I played the game was simply that the magypsies were being particularly harsh to flint due to treating human life as insignificant. Meanwhile, I recall your reaction as instantly disgusted due to the aforementioned fact that you were primed to dislike them, whether because of okama or because of having previously seen the matpat video calling out magypsies as sub-human representation (despite them being superhuman). I even recall having this same exact discussion with you when your stream ended that night.
Yeah, I’m kinda trying to speak from the perspective of someone who had the same hangups I had, but unlike me was unable to give the characters a chance and get past them.
As I write this post I’m more and more examining my own thought processes here and kinda asking myself “Yeah, why did I have that reaction?” and trying to parse it out and the more I think about it comes back to the context of trans representation in gaming as a whole.
The short answer is that we don’t really… have much… if any really… I mean, the only trans characters I can think of who are notably and intentionally trans are Poison from Final Fight/Street Fighter… which is a fighting game that’s short on story and still falls back on some of the “But that’s really a man!” tropes and Vivian… who was portrayed beautifully and perfectly but had… Her trans status removed from the US version…
I myself am not genderqueer, I identify as female. I am a transwoman. Which I suppose still means I can make mistakes and have knee-jerk reactions to situations regarding genderqueer characters, which I do realize is kinda shitty of me… but The fact is, I so rarely see myself actually represented in gaming, that when I see something that feels like It’s taking a shot at me I can’t help but be disappointed.
Ultimately this just goes to show that there is significant inconsistency alone in how different trans people view the characters. Regardless, we can all agree that once the game progresses the characters nevertheless shine through as powerful and likable. Which is ultimately what matters, because what that means is that all the shallow people who play this game to immediately rouse the masses and complain about the gay agenda or whatever will very obviously be the crowd that didn't play the game and just looked for ways to be insulted.
I agree with everything but the last sentence here. I don’t like the idea of dismissing someone’s complaints about the game because our (admittedly small) sample size here disagrees. If someone said they are trans and played all the way through the game and still had qualms about the Magypsies portrayal, I think it’d be interesting to hear them out and try to explain their position.
Which is in the end why I don't think using the magypsies as a reason for not localizing the game is justifiable. On the social front, it makes no sense that something as innocent as fruitful as gender expression in a very deep and artful game should be understood by people to be reasonably censored. On the political front, it makes no sense to put more value on the possibility of haters hating something than putting value on the fact that it is a positive message to a lot of people. I mean, think about it… do you think we should be hiding trans-ness and gender fluidity and the like just because someone in the right will be pissed? That's ultimately what your argument is sounding like, and even if you say it's not your opinion but that of others, your post still stands as a defense of that view.
Not defending that view, but explaining it. I hate the boob-slider change made in Xenoblade Chronicles X. I don’t like being told that being able to give the character bigger boobs automatically makes it less family friendly. It’s like saying my own body is somehow automatically obscene which is irritating… Especially now that Xenoblade Chronicles 2 has that secondary character who has huge bouncing tits…. Like, it’s Ok when you guys make a static character like that, but when I do it to make my character look more like me, it’s somehow bad?!?!
That’s the part of my post where I really did get into “Nintendo gonna Nintendo” and kinda ragged on them for playing too close to the chest and being too stuck up their asses in their “Family Friendly” moniker.
I absolutely loathe the idea that any LGBT issue is automatically not family friendly, as well as when someone tries to call it “Politics”. Like, I’m sorry if you think my very existence is a political issue, but I just want to see myself in a goddamn video game”.
And I just cannot agree with that, even when trying to just think of the business side of it, a business side where Nintendo can so very easily limit release of this title to digital or even USE the inevitable maelstrom to raise awareness of the game and improve sales. Parents complain about their kids? Bam, pg-13 the game and then it's on parents to be around their kids when they play the game to discuss touchy subjects, which I think is actually optimal given all the issues of mortality the game touches on.
Heck, I'll even understand the sheer difficulty of translating such a huge game and talking about how the workload and cost would not be offset by the potential sales. But defending this not being localized because trans people? Nope, that's just not right to me.
It’s not right to me either but it’s how Nintendo usually Operates. It’s why Vivian was removed from TTYD, it’s why two effeminate (Gay guy, or trans female*) characters in Animal Crossing were changed to women for the western release, and why they dismissed the idea of putting Gay relationships in Tomodachi Life saying they didn’t want to include “Social Commentary” (Urg)
Then again, Fire Emblem getting some same sex options is a good sign. It’s T-Rated and surprisingly when I went to ESRB’s website to check and see, the Same-Sex relationship options are Not included in the rating summary for the game So… ok, maybe there is some room for progress here? Obviously Gay issues aren't all 1:1 with Trans issues but the same mentality of "This is social commentary" or "This is political" gets applied to both so this is still a good sign either way I think.
Didn’t know this before now so maybe I’m wrong here, but I just think Nintendo’s history hasn’t been so good on this issue, so I (at least used to) think I can predict how they’ll act on this….
But hey, Rhythm Heaven isn’t really dead, so maybe this is BS anyway.
*Japan kinda sucks with referring to pre-op trans people as “Really men” a lot of the time. The only info we have about these characters comes from Nintendo itself who specifically refers to them as “Male” in character profiles and I haven't fully played the games so I'm not 100% familiar with the characters and don't want to screw up. This could either mean they are effeminate gay men, or they’re trans women by Japan’s bad terminology.
Clarification appreciated, I'll address some remaining points
I agree with everything but the last sentence here. I don’t like the idea of dismissing someone’s complaints about the game because our (admittedly small) sample size here disagrees. If someone said they are trans and played all the way through the game and still had qualms about the Magypsies portrayal, I think it’d be interesting to hear them out and try to explain their position.
My disdain here is not towards people who still think the magypsies are bad character AFTER having completed the game, mostly because I have confidence in believing this to be rare and flawed in terms of how the game is understood. I'd want to hear really solid evidence on the magypsies being bad characters to not understand someone disliking them as "caricatures" as a valid statement from someone who played and understood the game.
So yes, my instant assumption from such criticism is someone who did not internalize the messages of the game. There is no reason to still see the magypsies as merely caricatures after chapter 7.
Not defending that view, but explaining it. I hate the boob-slider change made in Xenoblade Chronicles X. I don’t like being told that being able to give the character bigger boobs automatically makes it less family friendly. It’s like saying my own body is somehow automatically obscene which is irritating… Especially now that Xenoblade Chronicles 2 has that secondary character who has huge bouncing tits…. Like, it’s Ok when you guys make a static character like that, but when I do it to make my character look more like me, it’s somehow bad?!?!
That’s the part of my post where I really did get into “Nintendo gonna Nintendo” and kinda ragged on them for playing too close to the chest and being too stuck up their asses in their “Family Friendly” moniker.
I absolutely loathe the idea that any LGBT issue is automatically not family friendly, as well as when someone tries to call it “Politics”. Like, I’m sorry if you think my very existence is a political issue, but I just want to see myself in a goddamn video game”.
It’s not right to me either but it’s how Nintendo usually Operates. It’s why Vivian was removed from TTYD, it’s why two effeminate (Gay guy, or trans female*) characters in Animal Crossing were changed to women for the western release, and why they dismissed the idea of putting Gay relationships in Tomodachi Life saying they didn’t want to include “Social Commentary” (Urg)
Then again, Fire Emblem getting some same sex options is a good sign. It’s T-Rated and surprisingly when I went to ESRB’s website to check and see, the Same-Sex relationship options are Not included in the rating summary for the game So… ok, maybe there is some room for progress here? Obviously Gay issues aren't all 1:1 with Trans issues but the same mentality of "This is social commentary" or "This is political" gets applied to both so this is still a good sign either way I think.
Didn’t know this before now so maybe I’m wrong here, but I just think Nintendo’s history hasn’t been so good on this issue, so I (at least used to) think I can predict how they’ll act on this….
But hey, Rhythm Heaven isn’t really dead, so maybe this is BS anyway.
*Japan kinda sucks with referring to pre-op trans people as “Really men” a lot of the time. The only info we have about these characters comes from Nintendo itself who specifically refers to them as “Male” in character profiles and I haven't fully played the games so I'm not 100% familiar with the characters and don't want to screw up. This could either mean they are effeminate gay men, or they’re trans women by Japan’s bad terminology.
This is where it gets a bit murkier. Looking back at your post a lot of it reads like you agreeing that those concerns are reasonable, even to the point where you suggested that for localization it'd require a complete rework of the magypsy characters.
The concerns you mention are concerns we all understand as something Nintendo has. But when you said "I get the concerns" it didn't imply a tone of understanding what they are, but understanding why they have validity. Understanding that people have reason and logic in being concerned by these things, and we can logically follow that Nintendo would need to change these things.
It also isn't helped by the fact that you keep on elaborating while these concerns are when I obviously understand them, and other people do. It's like the following:
A: "I don't agree with these, but I kinda get them"
B: "They're still not really a justifiable perspective or concern"
A: "well yea, I don't either, but let me explain what those concerns are again and why Nintendo should x,y,z"
Not sure if you see what I mean, but by arguing that Nintendo should indeed consider these concerns you are in turn granting them validity. If you do agree that these are things that shouldn't be happening, why are you granting that Nintendo has reason to not localize it? And yea, you can keep going "no I don't, I just think that's how Nintendo would act", but then why continue arguing for these positions when the initial disagreement was not based on what Nintendo would or not, but what is agreeable or not.
Also, some clarifications:
So no, poor example. Mother 3 would be completely different, as changing the Magypsies entails outright altering an important aspect of their personality, at least based on Itoi's intent on them being both male and female.
I don't really see the point of trying to understand or defend Nintendo's possibly-dumb reasons for rumored decisions. Especially since if it did happen to be what you conjecture, then Nintendo is part of the problem with regards to progressive social views and the fear to possibly disrupt the status quo through portrayal in games. Well, not like we didn't already know that. "No way, Link couldn't possibly be female! Then who would save Zelda!?"
To be fair, Aonuma is NoJ while NoA were the ones who allegedly killed Mother 3.
I don't think NoJ cares much about American politics at all.
Eh… I'm sure the game is fine, but that trailer is more cringy than the Earthbound commercial.
I don't think NoJ cares at all about non-Japan
Fixed that for you. Anyway Aonuma is a producer; he doesn't make localization policy. It's not a perfect analogy. But sure he's Japanese.
After digging out the old N64 to play some Mario Party with old friends, I wish Nintendo would drop that crappy premise they started in 9 to go back to the old style.
Fixed that for you. Anyway Aonuma is a producer; he doesn't make localization policy. It's not a perfect analogy. But sure he's Japanese.
True, but he was speaking for NoJ and the Breath of the Wild team at the time, and what he said revealed a lot about how much NoJ cares about traditional feminist ideals.
@S.C.:
After digging out the old N64 to play some Mario Party with old friends, I wish Nintendo would drop that crappy premise they started in 9 to go back to the old style.
Which one ?
Which one ?
I own all three, but mostly #2 and #3. As the original Mario Party was pure evil distilled.