About Big Mom's strength, well, those who said Big Mom > Luffy will be proven incorrect next chapters.
! It's BM >>>>>>> Luffy, of course. And soon we will see what a Yonko really is capable of. Soon… Very soon!
About Big Mom's strength, well, those who said Big Mom > Luffy will be proven incorrect next chapters.
! It's BM >>>>>>> Luffy, of course. And soon we will see what a Yonko really is capable of. Soon… Very soon!
Big Mom has been punching holes into Bege's impregnable fortress like it means nothing. Nobody has even scratched her yet, much less come close to hurting her. She just threw a fireball at a person who has high fire resistance and it had some effect! She was going to punch Reiju, and Luffy and Sanji had to come out and double counter it in order to save her (cue in the criticism of Oda's sexism). What more do you want?
Compare all that to the other Yonko.Kaido falls from the heavens uninjured,he smacks 2 goons way past the freaking island,WB literally shakes the world with every move of his etc.The Admirals also have shown incredible stuff.Big Mom simply hasn't.
Also, I feel that we're about to leave this arc without the Big Mom pirates being fully explored. It feels like there is still something missing here. Are they going to be involved once again when we reach Elbaf? What can that plot be about? Or is Fishman Island under threat now, due to Jinbe's betrayal? Lot's of doors still open when we leave Totto Land, if things remain as they are right now. That, and Big Mom still holding Zeff and other Straw Hat families potentially as hostages…
Edit: Wait a tic… they can't possibly have the full throwdown now no matter what. We've been told the reverie mini-arc and start of Wano's would be this year as well. If we had a full fight now it'd last well into next year before that started.
To be honest, mangakas always fail miserably to predict how long it will take to finish an arc.
Also, I feel that we're about to leave this arc without the Big Mom pirates being fully explored. It feels like there is still something missing here. Are they going to be involved once again when we reach Elbaf? What can that plot be about? Or is Fishman Island under threat now, due to Jinbe's betrayal? Lot's of doors still open when we leave Totto Land, if things remain as they are right now. That, and Big Mom still holding Zeff and other Straw Hat families potentially as hostages…
That's the impression I've been having for a while now, it seems more likely her crew is just being presented now to actually be used later.
That's part of the reason I am still thinking BM and Luffy may end this arc as allies (BM Pirates pulling a Sand Village ninjas and appearing when the alliance is about to be crushed by Kaido?).
If you read carefully it seems Caesar knows Judge in the past. Glad to know that since the both worked with Vegapunk they have some connections whatsoever. Hopefully this connections will be further shown in the future
@Joy:
Compare all that to the other Yonko.Kaido falls from the heavens uninjured,he smacks 2 goons way past the freaking island,WB literally shakes the world with every move of his etc.The Admirals also have shown incredible stuff.Big Mom simply hasn't.
Really? That is impressive? Big Mom killed a giant hero when she was 5 years old in a single blow. How is sending 2 goons flying more impressive? Luffy did that to Buggy in chapter 20 or something. And to Wapol around chapter 150. Whitebeard still has no equal in my eyes, but Big Mom has been solidly presented as a powerhouse, I think. Her crew, on the other hand, has been nearly as incompetent as the New Fishman Pirates. Not a question of strength, but of intelligence, coordination, and actually doing stuff.
@Joy:
Seriously Oda ? Reiju taking a Yonko attack ?
You might have been overlooking that Bege has taken 5 direct punches from Big Mom, and he is still standing and conscious.
@Joy:
Compare all that to the other Yonko.Kaido falls from the heavens uninjured,he smacks 2 goons way past the freaking island,WB literally shakes the world with every move of his etc.The Admirals also have shown incredible stuff.Big Mom simply hasn't.
Maybe Big Mom's formidability comes in the form of her ultimate defense? You can still be considered immensely strong if nothing can hurt you (something that she shares with kaido), couple that with tossing a frickin giant around at the age of 5, being told she had the capabilities to become fleet admiral level, having one of the most visually impressive conqueror's haki that blows everything away that comes near her, being told this chapter by Bege that usually nothing can scratch his fortress but BM is pummeling away as if there was no armor there. I don't know why we need a visually stunning scene that shows the earth shaking just to establish why she deserves her yonkou position. And as someone else pointed out if you can make someone feel the heat from a fire attack when they're supposed to be flame proof that's pretty darn impressive.
Okay, now I really want to see Sanji wear a raid suit even just for a gag lol.
Huh, so I guess Big Mom is the first female that Sanji's ever struck back at? Also, Bege once again being #1 Mafia Family Man.
Except that ugly women are not women, right?
great chapter…i think in terms of power...ichiji and nidji more or less same as sanji... they could at least hold the commander..while judge to hold BM and reiju and yonji hold the minion...there are definitely winning as BM already lost 2 commander
@Joy:
Big Mom simply hasn't.
Big Mom killed a Giant Chieftain when she was a kid and now she zaps people's lifespans for fun when she's not bossing around the weather itself.
Also she seems to be nigh on indestructible.
We also have to bear in mind that this is probably just the tip of the Big Mom iceberg since she ain't going down in this arc.
Except that ugly women are not women, right?
And when has Sanji treated ugly women as if they were not women? Kokoro was treated like she wasn't a mermaid, it's different
As is, it seems like Sanji and the Vinsmokes are settled….except for Reiju, who we know obviously doesn't really like what they do. Will Sanji and herself simply go back and have nothing change?
With Luffy and Sanji completely out in the open like that, I don't see how they don't get their asses kicked. Barring some out of character heroics from the Vinsmokes, I could see Jinbe and/or Pedro sacrificing themselves to complete the escape.
the rest of their country the snails are still docked in Big mom's territory, wonder how they'll escape
Caesar is too funny, reminds me of Buggy he certainly has the same comedic effect. Bege is slowly turning from a "bad guy" to a "good guy" so to speak, nice touch with him wanting to protect his crew and family. I was actually surprised but accepted when Nami and Brook seemed to have convinced Luffy to escape instead of fight head-on, but with that last page I should have known better. Surely Big Mom's crew will be too much for Luffy, Bege and Germa, the situation will probably change soon but I wonder what will change it.
Wow, even up til the very end, Oda keeps you guessing if there's gonna be a full throwdown or not.
That treasure bomb, though… something's gonna happen to the castle at some point.
Also, jaiminisbox so random! (Timing-wise)Edit: Wait a tic... they can't possibly have the full throwdown now no matter what. We've been told the reverie mini-arc and start of Wano's would be this year as well. If we had a full fight now it'd last well into next year before that started.
You put way too much significance on these estimations, they are nonsense
I am more and more getting convinced that Pudding will help Luffy and co.There is no other viable way at this moment.
@Joy:
You didn't answer my question.Would Reiju survive against an attack from those 3 guys ? Also Oda could have just handled it better.Show some Yonko worthy attack,not some east blue level attack.We are told time and time again that BM is strong but visually Oda has simply failed to showcase that.
That's what I'm saying he's told us Big Mom and her crew are are dangerous. Oda ever heard show don't tell? Lol at people thinking Renji no selling a mamga attack just because it has fire based.
Well, a chapter where little to nothing happened. I am also disappointed with Judges willingness to sacrifice himself and his machines. Would make far more sense if Reiju would make an attempt of her own. Next chapter should be fun. Whole volume is likely to be fighting and preparing the cake.
I'm surprised that self-sacrifice Pedro didn't joined the the stalling group.
So sanji hit a girl! about time!
And just broke zeff's rule, unless that rule is only for pretty women
I don't think Sanji broke his rule. He's blocked women in the past. If I recall, he blocked Califa's kicks back at Eneas Lobby
And when has Sanji treated ugly women as if they were not women? Kokoro was treated like she wasn't a mermaid, it's different
The point is "I'm not hurting women, except if they're ugly".
The point is "I'm not hurting women, except if they're ugly".
And I asked you to show me where that happened. When has Sanji deliberately hit a woman because she was ugly?
Like some said, so far Sanji only kicked Zeus, technically he didn't even touched BM. Next chapter we'll see how Oda will handle this, for now it's useless to jump to conclusion.
And I asked you to show me where that happened. When has Sanji deliberately hit a woman because she was ugly?
.L.a.s.t. .c.h.a.p.t.e.r. .S.a.n.j.i. .h.i.t. B.i.g.m.o.m.
Tamatebakko chest to explode at the bottom and topple the cake mountain to give our heroes the opening to flee.
I belive the key to allow the straw hats, but specifically Sanji, to escape is going to be Pudding. She is either going to convince BM, sacrifice herself or just run away with them.
I belive the key to allow the straw hats, but specifically Sanji, to escape is going to be Pudding. She is either going to convince BM, sacrifice herself or just run away with them.
99% she is gonna do something about the zeff situation…big mom has now more than enough reasons to go against the strawhats' friends and families, and something must happend to avoid that..so pudding will probably make everyone forget about the incident or something so that big mom doesn't just kill every single person the strawhats have ever met and send them a chest with all their heads.
Yeah I also hope that now that since the 2 are already out, they will join the mess. But how will they be able to handle that many ennemies ? Oda still does not give a single clue
We don't have time for a mess as the arc is closing off soon (Reverie and Wano are starting this year after all). Plus, you can clearly see they don't want to join in.
Probably only Luffy and Sanji + Germa will be left behind. That allows for more focused action. They're also all capable of flight and will leave when needed.
.L.a.s.t. .c.h.a.p.t.e.r. .S.a.n.j.i. .h.i.t. B.i.g.m.o.m.
You mean Sanji blocked Zeus from attacking Reiju? Great scene. Now show me where Sanji hurt an ugly woman, please.
@.access:
Like some said, so far Sanji only kicked Zeus, technically he didn't even touched BM. Next chapter we'll see how Oda will handle this, for now it's useless to jump to conclusion.
What people don't seem to understand is that Sanji didn't even defend himself against Khalifa. He has always said he wouldn't hurt a women but he was always talking about beautiful women. In other words he didn't break his rule, because his rule never applied to ugly women.
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You mean Sanji blocked Zeus from attacking Reiju? Great scene. Now show me where Sanji hurt an ugly woman, please.
yeah "he can't hurt Bigmom because Bigmom's skin is tough" 'kay.
@Joy:
Big Mom simply hasn't.
Remember that Big Mom's first attack wasn't aimed at Reiju; it was aimed at Caesar and Bege, and Reiju got caught in the collateral, making its power even more impressive. Plus, she's been whaling on a fortress that until this point seems to have been impregnable, and now she gets to beat on people out in the open. Wait and see. Although I'm amused by the fact that you seem to think her actions on Elbaf were nothing special.
Her crew, on the other hand, has been nearly as incompetent as the New Fishman Pirates. Not a question of strength, but of intelligence, coordination, and actually doing stuff.
I do give them credit for instantly shooting the alliance once the castle disappeared. They've actually been doing pretty decently at the wedding, just with Katakuri taking 90% of the spotlight, so I'm interested to see how they'll do against the Vinsmokes.
.L.a.s.t. .c.h.a.p.t.e.r. .S.a.n.j.i. .h.i.t. B.i.g.m.o.m.
He hit the cloud, not BM.
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What people don't seem to understand is that Sanji didn't even defend himself against Khalifa. He has always said he wouldn't hurt a women but he was always talking about beautiful women. In other words he didn't break his rule, because his rule never applied to ugly women.
He protected Kureha at Drum Island, and called out the attacker for it.
We don't have time for a mess as the arc is closing off soon (Reverie and Wano are starting this year after all). Plus, you can clearly see they don't want to join in.
Probably only Luffy and Sanji + Germa will be left behind. That allows for more focused action. They're also all capable of flight and will leave when needed.
Nami certainly would be helpful to flee with her staff. Whereas I'm not sure what Sanji and Luffy can do against the bigest warriors of Charlotte familly
yeah "he can't hurt Bigmom because Bigmom's skin is tough" 'kay.
Dude, do you even read what people you're replying at write?
Sanji's leg didn't even connect with Big Mom, it was against Zeus the thundercloud.
It doesn't really count if his intention was to hit bm but she blocked it with the cloud. Anyway that panel is unclear.
Anyway, I'm sure tankman vs bm will happen, that gear 4 version looks made for bm.
He hit the cloud, not BM.
Do you even realize no one but Brook can hit the cloud?
He protected Kureha at Drum Island, and called out the attacker for it.
How? and against whom ?
@Joy:
Compare all that to the other Yonko.Kaido falls from the heavens uninjured,he smacks 2 goons way past the freaking island,WB literally shakes the world with every move of his etc.The Admirals also have shown incredible stuff.Big Mom simply hasn't.
Wait, what? Big Mom has the power to manipulate souls to a degree, not to mention her ridiculous constitution. If she had tried to force Bege's fear out I wonder if it had worked. It didn't with Jimbei and I think that is one of the deterrents why she didn't use that power, but as she is she is literally able to manipulate the weather, she has Coc and who knows what other crazy stuff can she do with her fruit. For me she's a pretty badass Yonkou right there. Given, not visually intimidating always but…
Woah Sanji. Why are you talking to Luffy like that? I'm alright with you shutting off your father but you can't just "nobody must go out except me" the guy who went through all that trouble for you!
Freaking Nami is just like the majority of the forums, hyping up the yonkou. As if we don't know that! But we're talking about Luffy here, and he declared that he won't run away from no admiral or yonkou. If Zoro's group is in here, I believe it would be a mismatch, now that Big Mom is missing commanders.
Pretty sure that Luffy is gonna defeat Big Mom… soon. It's too early for Impel Down 2.0. During the first half, Luffy has been beating every arc's boss til Shabaody.
Do you even realize no one but Brook can hit the cloud?
BM said nothing about this, she said Brook was the only one to hurt Prometheus so far not that he was the only one able to attack it.
BM said nothing about this, she said Brook was the only one to hurt Prometheus so far not that he was the only one able to attack it.
It doesn't change anything though. He attacked Bigmom. He had never attacked any lady before. We'll see next week, but so far it seems that his rule doesn't apply to ugly women.
Do you even realize no one but Brook can hit the cloud?
How? and against whom ?
Sanji and Luffy just hit the cloud in the last page of the chapter that is being discussed right here, because Big Mom had the cloud in her hand in order to thundershock Reiju after burning her didn't work. Are you trying to read what people are telling you? What we've been told is that nobody had been able to hurt either Zeus or Prometheus before Brook, not that they couldn't be blocked from attacking. And Sanji blocked Kalifa and pinned her down. He just couldn't bring himself to actually strike her properly, doesn't mean he can't do other stuff. Like blocking.
On the second&third questions, he used his leg to block Chessmarimo's afro-arrow attack from hitting Kureha. You're the one making hyperbolic statements, you're the one who should back them with facts. Sanji has a code for all women. Just because he doesn't have perverted thoughts with ugly women, doesn't mean he isn't nice to them and can suddenly fight against them.
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@Kaido:
I do give them credit for instantly shooting the alliance once the castle disappeared. They've actually been doing pretty decently at the wedding, just with Katakuri taking 90% of the spotlight, so I'm interested to see how they'll do against the Vinsmokes.
If only Perospero & co. had done that to the Vinsmokes when they were defenseless instead of having a villanous monologue… ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Other than that and Smoothie being useless again and again, I've been fine with the wedding performance, yeah.
Just now read both this chapter and the previous chapter. Honestly, I find both of them kinda decent at best but I don't find anything great about them.
sigh To tell you guys the truth, I've stopped really caring much about this arc for a while now and honestly, I just want them to hurry on up into the Wano arc at this point. -_-
Looking at that last (awesome) spread, it seems clear that they hit Zeus, who is protecting BM. That or a haki clash. I do not think that Sanji is attempting to break his code, especially since it is now clear it is rooted in Sanji's wish to be able to look Zeff in the face again. But the next chapter better show Sanji kicking some ass regardless. It is long overdue.
I agree that it will seem that the Big Mom Pirates will be humiliated but not broken in this arc. The SH/Firetank/Germa alliance will escape but the BM pirates will be after their hides.
Actually, Germa's fate is very questionable. Outside of Reiju, they have not been redeemed outside of displaying some semblance of honor, but they are definitely still more or less on the side of "villainous" and will likely have a downfall one way or another in the future.
Lastly, Gastino is officially Capone's bitch. I love it. Also, this chapter undoubtedly confirms that Gastino is just way too much of a coward to even attempt to use his power
What does Chessmarimo has anything to do with anything? He's a man.
First and unique time Sanji "laid a finger" on a women was against ugly Bigmom. This is very very simple though. But 'kay, let's just delude ourselves. Fine.
What people don't seem to understand is that Sanji didn't even defend himself against Khalifa. He has always said he wouldn't hurt a women but he was always talking about beautiful women. In other words he didn't break his rule, because his rule never applied to ugly women.
Erm… yeah, he did. He fended off all of her kicks just like he did with Big Mom's punch now:
!
. I am not the first, second or even third person to point this out in this thread.
You see, I am one that advocates that Oda's view of women is often reduced to beautiful/young women (like fat Alvida apparently not being safe from beatings like usually the other women are in OP), but even I don't think this is the case here. It may be next week, I wouldn't be surprised, but not now. As far as chapter 870 goes, Sanji has not treated BM differently than other women.