think of the sheer amount of power you could have with 100 diesels
One Piece 864: The Vinsmoke Family Slaughter Plot
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How much Diesel power equals an Aveyron power? Or are Aveyrons lesser measurements compared to Diesels? The world may never know.
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think of the sheer amount of power you could have with 100 diesels
10 cavendishes would be enough
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@Kaido:
Why would Katakuri or Perospero target him of all people? Perospero is playing a key role in the Vinsmoke assassination, while Katakuri is confronting Luffy and Bege because they are connected to the horrific future he's seeing.
And are you even reading my posts?? Let me give you a rundown again about Big Mom's reactions to the wedding cake and the portrait.
- Destroyed Cake: Gets food cravings, flies into a violent rampage with all her toughness still intact.
- Destroyed Portrait: Falls into despair, her defenses drop.
Can you see why Bege wants to go for the portrait? The plot to assassinate Big Mom is not happening if she turns into a rampaging monster. The portrait is more important to Bege, but nowhere was it the case that it was more important to Big Mom. Not to mention that her underlings were panicked when she started getting cake cravings, but how could they satiate it? They're on an island that's completely closed off with no means to make another cake.
You're right! Big mom's cake caused her rage to be so bad that she lost all consciousness. Conqueror's Haki has been in effect over that splattered batter! Her attendants KO'd. The alien scream is holding everyone in agony!!! Capone and the others shielded from the violent scream with ear plugs. The loss of the cakes importance causes grandma to let down her defense. Allowing her to be damaged without notice. Meaning all hope is lost for Big hunger, nothing else matters to her anymore. since the cake imploded. Surely this is what happens when the cake not the photo is lost. Yet here we are!!! Meme doesn't know what to be angry about. lolol, Oda, if everything is important to her she should be mad about EVERYTHING!!!
I also lololol at your "why would Katakuri and Pedo attack Sanji??" lulz, Pedo had no role in the Smokes massacre. Yet he is doing nothing but standing by handicaps. If mom is so scary get the Vinsmoke massacre on the road. Katakuri already tried to kill Sanji. He needs to continue what he started if he is trying his best to calm mema. It's bad writing everywhere.
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@Daz:
Yeah, thats a likely assumption. But its just an assumption. It has never been actually verbalized how Big Mom wants to use the cloning tech, just that she wants it. And even if she had said "I need clones! To become Pirate King!" that doesn't change how underdeveloped and unimpressive the Clones are in this arc. Their only real showcase was as meatshields at the start of the arc, yet we're given no more justification for why Big Mom wants to go to such lengths to get her hands on them. To put it simply, they simply having been established as being worth this entire debacle. Especially when Big Mom can sprinkle soul-dust onto a rabbit and create something like Randolph.
I've been under the assumption she wants the clones to have limitless souls for her Homies. Easier to sit back and enjoy your tea parties while your army of Homies get the other Road Poneglyphs and make you the Pirate King.
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I was thinking that I actually would like if in a couple of chapters, at the peak of the battle, we'd switch and go to Wa and start the new arc and during it Luffy and the others would appear and just tell us how the whole thing with BigMom ended without actually seeing it…that would be different...and would create much hype...
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You're right! Big mom's cake caused her rage to be so bad that she lost all consciousness. Conqueror's Haki has been in effect over that splattered batter! Her attendants KO'd. The alien scream is holding everyone in agony!!! Capone and the others shielded from the violent scream with ear plugs. The loss of the cakes importance causes grandma to let down her defense. Allowing her to be damaged without notice. Meaning all hope is lost for Big hunger, nothing else matters to her anymore. since the cake imploded. Surely this is what happens when the cake not the photo is lost. Yet here we are!!! Meme doesn't know what to be angry about. lolol, Oda, if everything is important to her she should be mad about EVERYTHING!!!
I also lololol at your "why would Katakuri and Pedo attack Sanji??" lulz, Pedo had no role in the Smokes massacre. Yet he is doing nothing but standing by handicaps. If mom is so scary get the Vinsmoke massacre on the road. Katakuri already tried to kill Sanji. He needs to continue what he started if he is trying his best to calm mema. It's bad writing everywhere.
Her hunger rage is much different than the despair she fills when someone touches the photo. We saw her hunger rage twice. She just ate two cooks souls a chapter ago to fulfill it after the cake exploded. The photo is a different thing all together. The agony cry is photo specific.
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You're right! Big mom's cake caused her rage to be so bad that she lost all consciousness. Conqueror's Haki has been in effect over that splattered batter! Her attendants KO'd. The alien scream is holding everyone in agony!!! Capone and the others shielded from the violent scream with ear plugs. The loss of the cakes importance causes grandma to let down her defense. Allowing her to be damaged without notice. Meaning all hope is lost for Big hunger, nothing else matters to her anymore. since the cake imploded. Surely this is what happens when the cake not the photo is lost. Yet here we are!!! Meme doesn't know what to be angry about. lolol, Oda, if everything is important to her she should be mad about EVERYTHING!!!
I also lololol at your "why would Katakuri and Pedo attack Sanji??" lulz, Pedo had no role in the Smokes massacre. Yet he is doing nothing but standing by handicaps. If mom is so scary get the Vinsmoke massacre on the road. Katakuri already tried to kill Sanji. He needs to continue what he started if he is trying his best to calm mema. It's bad writing everywhere.
What dlo said above me is absolutely right, and you seem to be willfully ignoring my posts explaining that to Big Mom, the wedding cake is just as important as the portrait. She talks about it in every scene she's in. It's BEGE who values the portrait to a great degree, because destroying the picture will render Big Mom weak enough to be assassinated. You are taking his words and putting them in Big Mom's mouth, claiming that the portrait is worth more to her than the cake despite that never being the case.
Perospero is playing the most key role in the massacre - he trapped the Vinsmokes. Even if he decided to leave the actual killing to someone else, only a few seconds passed between that scene and the end of the chapter, so where would he go? Also, Katakuri tried to shoot Sanji in order to keep the original plan rolling, but now that that's gone out the window, his job right now is to prevent the horrific futures he foresees. Going after Sanji out of some kind of bloodlust would be an absolute waste of his abilities.
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I was thinking that I actually would like if in a couple of chapters, at the peak of the battle, we'd switch and go to Wa and start the new arc and during it Luffy and the others would appear and just tell us how the whole thing with BigMom ended without actually seeing it…that would be different...and would create much hype...
I don't really think that turning One Piece into post-timeskip Toriko is the best thing to do for a story.
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Say goodbye to the hype if that happened. If Oda skips it, he ain't showing it.
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@Kaido:
What dlo said above me is absolutely right, and you seem to be willfully ignoring my posts explaining that to Big Mom, the wedding cake is just as important as the portrait. She talks about it in every scene she's in. It's BEGE who values the portrait to a great degree, because destroying the picture will render Big Mom weak enough to be assassinated. You are taking his words and putting them in Big Mom's mouth, claiming that the portrait is worth more to her than the cake despite that never being the case.
The portrait is more important than the cake for sure. She was just pissed about the cake but the portrait makes her vulnerable. There is a reason why the plan focus on the portrait. We even have confirmation that the importance of the portrait is top secret level confidentiality
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The portrait is more important than the cake for sure. She was just pissed about the cake but the portrait makes her vulnerable. There is a reason why the plan focus on the portrait. We even have confirmation that the importance of the portrait is top secret level confidentiality
To the perpetrators, yes the portrait is more important. But Big Mom puts just as much value in her cake.
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The portrait is more important than the cake for sure. She was just pissed about the cake but the portrait makes her vulnerable. There is a reason why the plan focus on the portrait. We even have confirmation that the importance of the portrait is top secret level confidentiality
Objectively, you are right. But this is Big Mom. The gluttonous power monger. She has repeatedly said throughout the arc that the wedding cake was what she is looking forward to the most in this wedding. While the portrait is easily more valuable than some cake she can probably get remade, she stubbornly wants it now. Food is her greatest hobby and passion. That is why she is confused over which one to be more angry about. This is about Big Mom's perspective alone.
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@Kaido:
To the perpetrators, yes the portrait is more important. But Big Mom puts just as much value in her cake.
The cake didn't make her vulnerable so it is not as important. Whereas the photo is making her snap at the present time. The fact that there is the cake and the photo is just making her longer to snap than the previous 3 seconds. But the fact that she didn't snap for the cake but did for the photo is demonstrated in this chapter so I don't understand how you can still deny it.
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The cake didn't make her vulnerable so it is not as important. Whereas the photo is making her snap at the present time. The fact that there is the cake and the photo is just making her snap longer than the previous 3 seconds. But the fact that she didn't snap for the cake but did for the photo is demonstrated in this chapter so I don't understand how you can still deny it.
I already explained why she has different reactions to each of them. She lives in a land of food and can get another cake, so she rampages. But this portrait is extremely valuable to her, and as far as we know she doesn't have another one like it.
And she did snap for the cake. She became entirely focused on it and started attacking everyone who got in her way like she did when she craved croquembouche. The destruction of the photo caused her to go into an overload as it was directly stated she was torn over which was more important to her. If the portrait were truly more important to Big Mom, then she would easily put aside the cake and fall into despair, but she isn't doing that. Just because the cake doesn't make her vulnerable doesn't mean it isn't really important to her.
Think about how you would react if someone withheld food from you. You'd get really angry and do whatever it took to quell your hunger, especially as more time passes. But if you lost a family member, like, say, your mother, you're not going to be able to bring your mother back. The most you can do is mourn her loss.
(Now, you and everyone else would hopefully put your mother's life over food, but Big Mom's relationship to food is far from typical).
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@Joy:
Again Kaido smashed them 10s of kilometers off the freaking island.That was just his pure physical strength.You know you can have Luffy and Jinbe avoid Big Mom but at least show some widespread destruction.The only thing her serious attack did was destroy some tables.Also come on you can't seriously be bringing Brook here as something noteworthy.Brook is still a fodder in the grand scheme of things.Kaido fodderized Kid and Apoo became his bitch,you know guys a good deal superior to Brook.
Well to be fair, no one from the Worst Generation was even able to get to Mama, unless they became allies of her, or were allowed to enter her territory. I think there is a clear reason why Kidd would target Shanks from the emperors, it would seem his crew is much smaller than other 3 emperors. So I pressume they hoped to overcome by tactics and numbers. That strategy was rendered useless because Kaido alone defeated all of them. Do you honestly believe that if the alliance encountered Big Mom, the same thing would not have happened? A few getting defeated while the others went to her side.
I will agree that introducing the portrait weakness is rather convenient because we do not know much about the history behind it. However, more than a Dorian Grey type of weakness, it seems it is more psychological. I also would like to know if Big Mom has to have the portrait around her at all times. If not, then no matter how much she gets attacked it seems she does not suffer from any damage. While Kaido can get damaged, if the scars are any indication of it, but you cannot kill him.
I think both Kaido and Big Mom have been impressive, each in their own way.
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No one mentioning the Tamatebako? Beside the cake and the picture there was also that as the last straw that could make Big Mom go completely nuts. At this point it's clear that the bomb will have a key role in the developement of the events, Oda has been building it up since FI, but Big Mom right now doesn't seem able to even pick it up and open it.
Now i begin to wonder if it might end up having a completely different role, like, for instance, someone else opening it. Maybe Perospero will, the explosion will knock out some of the BM pirates holding their guns to the Vinsmoke heads. The Vinsmoke will have to be freed sooner or later anyway, and Reiju's role might be to save whoever will be hit by the poison rocket, maybe Oda decided all along to give her that poison power in the first place for that reason. -
Ah! Someone offering the Tamatebako to calm Big Mom down to have it explode in her face would be too funny. But, I have some degree of certainty that Nami will steal the treasures that were given to Big Mom by the guests. Payback for Fishman Island.
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@K.:
I will agree that introducing the portrait weakness is rather convenient
This is actually one of my biggest issues with the current situation right now. Whereas I agree with you and Kaido about that her emotional overload reaction is justified, I just don't consider the way to getting that reaction actual compelling or well-written. Instead it's just a random out-of-nowhere weakness introduced solely for plot convenience and therefore feeling unorganic.
I really agree with Daz that Oda's current writing really is somewhat sloppy.
Seriously, why not giving her a weakness which feels more organic. Like using previously introduced stuff like BM's gluttonious nature as well as the fact that Fishman Island couldn't deliver. Instead the plan of the alliance could have been as follows:
- The Firetank Pirates collected a lot of intel waiting for the right moment - including all the information about the dishes offered at the tea party (especially including the ingredients).
- Together with Sanji they consider what exactly Big Mom has to eat together with these dishes in order to get handicapped due to stomach illness.
- They pretent that another food delivery (possibly from Fishman Island in order to compensate for their previous delivery failure) arrives and make sure that the right additional dishes will be served also.
- Big Mom driven by her unrestrained greed and appetite of course will thoughtlessly consume everything dished to her
- She gets weakened and the assassination attempt can be executed. (And together with Luffy's antics we could land in exact the same situation we have in this chapter.)
If properly worked out, that would feel way more organic and not as random as the picture feels right now.
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The only reason I haven't talked about how awkwardly convenient the portrait weakness is is because Bege's plan as a whole is convenient. So I'm just riding the waves until we learn Mother Carmel's identity. Although I am sure it will probably still be underwhelming and not justify Oda's current writing.
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@Count:
The only reason I haven't talked about how awkwardly convenient the portrait weakness is is because Bege's plan as a whole is convenient. So I'm just riding the waves until we learn Mother Carmel's identity. Although I am sure it will probably still be underwhelming and not justify Oda's current writing.
The only reason you get away with making such horribly low quality posts is because of your red star. Get off your high horse of negativity and superiority to Oda. The writing is fine and up to his usual standard at least. The only thing that is underwhelming is your jackassery.
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@Kaido:
I already explained why she has different reactions to each of them. She lives in a land of food and can get another cake, so she rampages. But this portrait is extremely valuable to her, and as far as we know she doesn't have another one like it.
And she did snap for the cake. She became entirely focused on it and started attacking everyone who got in her way like she did when she craved croquembouche. The destruction of the photo caused her to go into an overload as it was directly stated she was torn over which was more important to her. If the portrait were truly more important to Big Mom, then she would easily put aside the cake and fall into despair, but she isn't doing that. Just because the cake doesn't make her vulnerable doesn't mean it isn't really important to her.
Think about how you would react if someone withheld food from you. You'd get really angry and do whatever it took to quell your hunger, especially as more time passes. But if you lost a family member, like, say, your mother, you're not going to be able to bring your mother back. The most you can do is mourn her loss.
(Now, you and everyone else would hopefully put your mother's life over food, but Big Mom's relationship to food is far from typical).
By snaping, I speak about the phenomenon where her eyes go blank and she becomes vulnerable. She did not snap for the cake. She was very angry but she was not vulnerable. That did not happen last chapter nor this one. Whereas when she realized Brook broke the photo, she asked him if he know how important that picture his and then she entered her blank state.
So the cake is important but not enough to make her enter her vulnarable state so you can’t say they are the same since they don’t have the same consequences. One make her snap one doesn’t. Yes it is important but not as much as the photo. You can argue as much as you want, Oda has written otherwise. Sorry if it does not please you -
The only reason you get away with making such horribly low quality posts is because of your red star. Get off your high horse of negativity and superiority to Oda. The writing is fine and up to his usual standard at least. The only thing that is underwhelming is your jackassery.
It's because the only way you can criticize me is by pointing out that my username has a red font and red star underneath that goes to show you actually can't contribute any constructive feedback and only petty spite. Oda's writing can often be very debatable, and it is always fine to point out where it can be improved if you can back up your reasons why.
It's holding Oda up to a standard that he can do no wrong that is actually negative to the discussion, as well as blatantly insulting other members for expressing their creative opinions. I don't criticize Oda because I find myself superior to him. I express criticism because I believe he has the potential and track record to do more. But hey, feel free to ignore that reasoning and the fact that the user right above my previous post and a mod also expressed a similar opinion about Oda's writing. Because clearly that means I've gone mad with senior member power.
If you disagree with my "horrible low quality" posts, then feel free to talk about why. I never mind debating with people. Although I tend to prefer such discussions to be polite.
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I don't really have a problem with the portrait unless we get a lackluster explanation for it…and I'm wondering if we will get an explanation for it in this arc. Judging by how it's going right now, I'm thinking that not all the loose plot threads with Big Mom will get cleared up. Especially the feud between her and the giants, since I can't really see that getting explained and dealt with in a way that flows with the current plot.
Honestly, it doesn't really surprise me, since this arc has always focused on Sanji. We know the relationship between him and his family, the personality and motivations (or lack thereof) of his relatives, and have gotten significant development in his character arc. In terms of the Charlotte Family, only Big Mom and Pudding have had significant non-battle exposure and development, and we don't really know much about their family history and interactions beyond a general sense of fear and negativity. This arc is Sanji's arc, and the Charlotte Family are simply the hosts to this party. So I'm thinking we'll get more time for Big Mom to shine in in the future, where her past is fully addressed and the confrontation between her and Luffy is one between two Pirate King wannabes, not a scuffle over Sanji. Also, we know that Fishman Island's story is far from over, and given that the Tamatebako is more likely to anger Big Mom than anything else, it's clear that there's a ton of potential for her and that she needs to have an outreach in the story far beyond this arc if she is ever going to be a complete character.
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My problem with the portrait: that I did a quick check on all instances where Big Mom shows up before they mention it[Fishman Island included] and it was nowhere to be seen in the background. Not in the throne room, not Linlin's bedroom. Unlike Brooke with the mask, that we got at least 1 panel of him behind the scenes with the mask on before he broke the picture, there was no indication that there was an important picture before. Even though there are pictures of food and cakes hung on the walls. That is why I say it is convenient, not necessarily the weakness factor to it.
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@Count:
It's because the only way you can criticize me is by pointing out that my username has a red font and red star underneath that goes to show you actually can't contribute any constructive feedback and only petty spite. Oda's writing can often be very debatable, and it is always fine to point out where it can be improved if you can back up your reasons why.
It's holding Oda up to a standard that he can do no wrong that is actually negative to the discussion, as well as blatantly insulting other members for expressing their creative opinions. I don't criticize Oda because I find myself superior to him. I express criticism because I believe he has the potential and track record to do more. But hey, feel free to ignore that reasoning and the fact that the user right above my previous post and a mod also expressed a similar opinion about Oda's writing. Because clearly that means I've gone mad with senior member power.
If you disagree with my "horrible low quality" posts, then feel free to talk about why. I never mind debating with people. Although I tend to prefer such discussions to be polite.
Thank you for this. I have to agree that a lot of my dislike of WCI is because I expect Oda to do a lot better than he currently is. Really hate it when fans use "Oda is a genius" or say that his creativity means that his story is untouchable. Yes ultimately it is his story and he can tell it how he chooses. Doesn't mean that it's the best way.
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The portrait is undeniably convenient, but I don't really mind because:
A). It not the only factor that will bring BM down, They're still going to have to work toward it.
B). Its mysterious enough to keep me intrigued. Could lead to an interesting backstory for her, and maybe Pudding.
C). And most importantly, this whole assassination plan is a fun, unique, and interesting action sequence that's different from basically anything else in One Piece. Brook sneaking up and breaking the photo alone was awesome enough to justify it -
By snaping, I speak about the phenomenon where her eyes go blank and she becomes vulnerable. She did not snap for the cake. She was very angry but she was not vulnerable. That did not happen last chapter nor this one. Whereas when she realized Brook broke the photo, she asked him if he know how important that picture his and then she entered her blank state.
So the cake is important but not enough to make her enter her vulnarable state so you can’t say they are the same since they don’t have the same consequences. One make her snap one doesn’t. Yes it is important but not as much as the photo. You can argue as much as you want, Oda has written otherwise. Sorry if it does not please youWhat you and Screwtape are misunderstanding is that with Big Mom, one catastrophic reaction is not bigger than the other, they're just different. The portrait is only more important to Bege because it renders Big Mom able to be assassinated. Meanwhile Mom has given no indication that she cares more about the vulnerability the loss of the portrait brings than the cravings her desire for food brings. She mentioned the importance of the picture because there is only one picture, while she immediately demanded another wedding cake, which only highlights the differences between them like I had mentioned multiple times, not Big Mom caring for one more than the other. The portrait is a one-time major plot point, while Big Mom's food cravings have been a feature throughout the arc, so I might see why your expectations for this scene might have been different than what actually happened, but hey, the same thing happened to the protags. They didn't take into account how much Big Mom treasures wedding cake and ended up introducing an unexpected obstacle to their plan.
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Thank you for this. I have to agree that a lot of my dislike of WCI is because I expect Oda to do a lot better than he currently is. Really hate it when fans use "Oda is a genius" or say that his creativity means that his story is untouchable. Yes ultimately it is his story and he can tell it how he chooses. Doesn't mean that it's the best way.
I think that once Oda decided that there must be at least 50 named characters in an arc, it became pretty clear that the writing quality's just not gonna be the same as the past arcs. I really do believe that this is the root of all the problems the past few arcs had. Although arguably he still tackles secondary characters better than many other Shonen authors with long-established mangas, it's no secret that the overall plot of the arcs suffers from character overload. Too many plot threads, too many characters involved in those plot threads, and too little time to bring all of them to a satisfying conclusion.
I honestly learned to overlook many questionable things Oda did post timeskip, cause One Piece is still one of the only manga that can get me excited and giddy after nearly 10 years of following it weekly.
I agree with many things that Daz, Count Mario and many other notable members said about the current state of the One Piece story, but I learned not to make that big of a deal out of it. Sadly pretty much every piece of mass media that's continuously produced over the years deteriorates, at least imo. Doesn't mean I still can't enjoy the shit out of it while still being conscious of the flaws that is has. Plus, let's be honest, One Piece has stayed at least somewhat consistent over the years when you compare it to many other big Manga projects like Naruto, Bleach, Toriko etc.
Hope this post wasn't too off topic. -
Her hunger rage is much different than the despair she fills when someone touches the photo. We saw her hunger rage twice. She just ate two cooks souls a chapter ago to fulfill it after the cake exploded. The photo is a different thing all together. The agony cry is photo specific.
I never said that the rages were the same. As a matter of fact I said they were different in levels of rage. The photo being the greater of the two. And it's ludicrous how she can NOT decide what to be mad about even tho ALL of the above upsets her. It's bad writing.
@Kaido:
What dlo said above me is absolutely right, and you seem to be willfully ignoring my posts explaining that to Big Mom, the wedding cake is just as important as the portrait. She talks about it in every scene she's in. It's BEGE who values the portrait to a great degree, because destroying the picture will render Big Mom weak enough to be assassinated. You are taking his words and putting them in Big Mom's mouth, claiming that the portrait is worth more to her than the cake despite that never being the case.
Perospero is playing the most key role in the massacre - he trapped the Vinsmokes. Even if he decided to leave the actual killing to someone else, only a few seconds passed between that scene and the end of the chapter, so where would he go? Also, Katakuri tried to shoot Sanji in order to keep the original plan rolling, but now that that's gone out the window, his job right now is to prevent the horrific futures he foresees. Going after Sanji out of some kind of bloodlust would be an absolute waste of his abilities.
1. Pedo is standing by subdued vinsmokes claiming how scared he is of mom's rage. Yet doing nothing to stop it. That is stupid and doesn't make mom look threatening at all. and bad writing. Katakuri tells bege to kill luffy yet doesn't try to do it himself. That's stupid, this is after he finds out about bege's betrayal too. He needs to go get sanji or do something cause just standing around knowing what's going to happen and being scared is foolish.
You have never proven that the cake is as important as the photo due to mom not losing consciousness over the cake and ACTIVATING conquer's haki EFFECTING EVERYONE vs Big mom's rage still keeping her conscious after the cake is destroyed only taking out a few chef's. Hunger pains do not equate to the level of rage out of control!! Also you keep ignoring the fact if the cake is as important as the photo she shouldn't need to decide what to be mad about because she should be mad at everything!!! Bad writing.
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Bu..bu..but, Big Mom says it herself:
[hide][/hide]
The fact is, no one really knows how Big Mom would react if someone destroyed the portrait, they know what happens if they knocked it over. So, not getting the expected reaction is okay.
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@Lao:
I think that once Oda decided that there must be at least 50 named characters in an arc, it became pretty clear that the writing quality's just not gonna be the same as the past arcs. I really do believe that this is the root of all the problems the past few arcs had. Although arguably he still tackles secondary characters better than many other Shonen authors with long-established mangas, it's no secret that the overall plot of the arcs suffers from character overload. Too many plot threads, too many characters involved in those plot threads, and too little time to bring all of them to a satisfying conclusion.
I honestly learned to overlook many questionable things Oda did post timeskip, cause One Piece is still one of the only manga that can get me excited and giddy after nearly 10 years of following it weekly.
I agree with many things that Daz, Count Mario and many other notable members said about the current state of the One Piece story, but I learned not to make that big of a deal out of it. Sadly pretty much every piece of mass media that's continuously produced over the years deteriorates, at least imo. Doesn't mean I still can't enjoy the shit out of it while still being conscious of the flaws that is has. Plus, let's be honest, One Piece has stayed at least somewhat consistent over the years when you compare it to many other big Manga projects like Naruto, Bleach, Toriko etc.
Hope this post wasn't too off topic.It wasn't off-topic at all. It was made complete sense too.
However, I feel this only applies to an arc as long as Dressrosa. Totland having two or three extra chapters are enough to round out most of its issues. Totland was doing fine until Oda suddenly rushed it for no reason other than being used to Marineford pacing for all of post-timeskip.
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@K.:
My problem with the portrait: that I did a quick check on all instances where Big Mom shows up before they mention it[Fishman Island included] and it was nowhere to be seen in the background. Not in the throne room, not Linlin's bedroom. Unlike Brooke with the mask, that we got at least 1 panel of him behind the scenes with the mask on before he broke the picture, there was no indication that there was an important picture before. Even though there are pictures of food and cakes hung on the walls. That is why I say it is convenient, not necessarily the weakness factor to it.
I don't necessarly agree that the weakness factor is not in itself convenient if it remain unexplained, but i agree that the main problem is how it was introduced, just like that, out of the blue, at the last moment right before the showdown at the Tea Party. If Oda would have begin to give vague hints since the beginning of the arc of a certain Mother Carmel or a certain special picture, not necessarly both, and revealing slowly pieces of informations, not that it would have been completely ok, but at least it wouldn't have to be that Deus Ex Machina that it was.
Maybe we shouldn't rush to blame Oda for the drop in writing quality though, if i recall correctly at december the OP's editor said that the plot of WCI would have had a much faster pace. The editor pressing Oda for completing WCI and beginning Wano could very well be the cause for this.
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@Count:
It wasn't off-topic at all. It was made complete sense too.
However, I feel this only applies to an arc as long as Dressrosa. Totland having two or three extra chapters are enough to round out most of its issues. Totland was doing fine until Oda suddenly rushed it for no reason other than being used to Marineford pacing for all of post-timeskip.
I think Totland still has this problem, albeit in a different manner when compared to Dressrosa, cause the number of factions is a lot smaller. We have StrawTanks, BM and Vinsmokes as opposed to like what… 6 different factions in Dressrosa? So at least in Totland the characters are not "scattered" throughout different plot threads but feel more closely intertwined. Which also turned out to be a problem in the current stage of the arc, because gathering too many characters in one tight place rarely works out well if I'm honest. At least in Marineford the plot was straightforward, it was a direct confrontation between 2 opposing factions, the plot of Totland is a tiny bit more complicated, so it just doesn't feel as grand as it's supposed to
I think.
About the pacing, it's kinda all over the place, I agree. I find it... inconsistent. Some parts are rushed, other parts are extended. It was the same for Dressrosa. Even after I actually read it all in bulk it still didn't feel "right". Separate parts feel dragged out while the transitions between them feel rushed and unnatural. Which is why out of all the timeskip arcs I appreciate Punk Hazard, because at least the pacing was consistently slow-y throughout it. I feel like I'm one of the very few here who likes the arc actually.But like I said in a post above, i still enjoy what i'm getting weekly, and you have to admit that at least the setting and the overall atmosphere of Totland are pretty well done. Also, Brook.
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@Dr.:
Maybe we shouldn't rush to blame Oda for the drop in writing quality though, if i recall correctly at december the OP's editor sayed that the plot of WCI would have had a much faster pace. The editor pressing Oda for completing WCI and beginning Wano could very well be the cause for this.
That makes it even worse. Because then it just becomes a cycle.
Editior: "Oda-sensei, get your pencil moving faster! We NEED to get to Wano Country!"
Editor: "Oda-sensei, get your pen swerving quicker! We NEED to get to Elbaf!"
Editor: "Oda-sensei, get your brush stroking swifter! We NEED to get to Raftel!"
Editor: "Oda-sensei, get your stylus sketching rapidly! We NEED to get to the Final War!"
Editor: "Oda-sensei, get your marker drawing briskly! We NEED to get to the final Straw Hat fights!"
Editor: "Oda-sensei, get your rubber erasing fleetly! We NEED to get to the epilogue!"
Editor: "Oda-sensei, get your hand typing posthaste! We NEED to get to Two Piece: One Piece Next Generations!"
Eiichiro Oda: "How many times do I have to remind you to call me Oda-san instead of Oda-sensei?"
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1. Pedo is standing by subdued vinsmokes claiming how scared he is of mom's rage. Yet doing nothing to stop it. That is stupid and doesn't make mom look threatening at all. and bad writing. Katakuri tells bege to kill luffy yet doesn't try to do it himself. That's stupid, this is after he finds out about bege's betrayal too. He needs to go get sanji or do something cause just standing around knowing what's going to happen and being scared is foolish.
Perospero trying to stop Big Mom? Did you see what happened to Moscato? What do you think he could do against her? What's more worthwhile: ensuring that the plan to massacre the Vinsmokes still happens, or acting as a meat target for Mama's wrath?
And I already explained why Katakuri is trying to get Bege to kill Luffy. You should go back and read it sometime, since it seems like you ignored a lot of what I said before. The dude is not just standing around; by the time Bege fully turned against him without a doubt the chapter was over. There was no time for Katakuri to take any sort of action, and his efforts to prevent this catastrophic event he foresees will happen next chapter. Him attacking Sanji will do NOTHING to prevent this catastrophic future, since what kind of role would Sanji play in it? It's clear given his confrontation of Bege and Luffy that those two are going to be the instigators for it.
You have never proven that the cake is as important as the photo due to mom not losing consciousness over the cake and ACTIVATING conquer's haki EFFECTING EVERYONE vs Big mom's rage still keeping her conscious after the cake is destroyed only taking out a few chef's. Hunger pains do not equate to the level of rage out of control!! Also you keep ignoring the fact if the cake is as important as the photo she shouldn't need to decide what to be mad about because she should be mad at everything!!! Bad writing.
Have you not read anything I've written????? Just because Big Mom reacts differently to the cake and the portrait does not mean that one is more important to her than the other! We know that she goes on a murderous rampage once she gets food cravings, just because she doesn't use Conqueror's Haki during her food rampages doesn't mean it's a lesser reaction. Also, you say "hunger pangs do not equate to the level of rage out of control", but Big Mom doesn't fly into a rage when the picture gets broken, she falls into despair! Do you honestly think this is rage:
and not this?
Also, I am not ignoring Big Mom being mad at everything, because she shouldn't be mad at everything! I have explained MULTIPLE TIMES that her reactions to the loss of these two treasures are not the same. For the food, she flies into a rage and attacks everyone in order to get more food, and for the portrait, she shrieks and falls into despair! Those two reactions are NOT compatible, and Big Mom will have to decide whether she wants to get that food, or whether she wants to mourn the loss of her picture.
Also, Tamiel's image gives significant proof from the manga itself that Big Mom is torn between the two and is just as affected by the loss of the cake as the loss of the portrait. Not to mention this panel, where Big Mom mentions both of them in the same capacity:
I have yet to see any solid evidence from you, other than your baseless notion that Conqueror's Haki and shrieking is somehow a sign of greater catastrophe than going on a mindless rampage. What have you got from the manga that indicates Big Mom values the picture more than the wedding cake?
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@Count:
It's because the only way you can criticize me is by pointing out that my username has a red font and red star underneath that goes to show you actually can't contribute any constructive feedback and only petty spite.
If you disagree with my "horrible low quality" posts, then feel free to talk about why. I never mind debating with people. Although I tend to prefer such discussions to be polite.
I'm not gonna lie. I was just looking for a fight and to use the term jackassery, but I respect that you dignified me being an idiot with an actual well thought response. I don't have the energy to debate these long posts that go into intricate details that are mostly speculation. I enjoy the series and am willing to casually defend nitpicking and overt criticism because things usually get explained or turn out better than expected.
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I'm not gonna lie. I was just looking for a fight and to use the term jackassery, but I respect that you dignified me being an idiot with an actual well thought response. I don't have the energy to debate these long posts that go into intricate details that are mostly speculation. I enjoy the series and am willing to casually defend nitpicking and overt criticism because things usually get explained or turn out better than expected.
When it comes to forum debates, offense is rarely your best defense.
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Oda has been on point with Big Mom's facial expressions that it is weird that he chose such a silly face for her in shock and despair. If anything, that is why it seems all so pointless right now. If he just chose a much darker face (with a tone different from Luffy's shock and despair face at Marineford) there wouldn't much of a problem.
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@Kaido:
Perospero trying to stop Big Mom? Did you see what happened to Moscato? What do you think he could do against her? What's more worthwhile: ensuring that the plan to massacre the Vinsmokes still happens, or acting as a meat target for Mama's wrath?
And I already explained why Katakuri is trying to get Bege to kill Luffy. You should go back and read it sometime, since it seems like you ignored a lot of what I said before. The dude is not just standing around; by the time Bege fully turned against him without a doubt the chapter was over. There was no time for Katakuri to take any sort of action, and his efforts to prevent this catastrophic event he foresees will happen next chapter. Him attacking Sanji will do NOTHING to prevent this catastrophic future, since what kind of role would Sanji play in it? It's clear given his confrontation of Bege and Luffy that those two are going to be the instigators for it.
Have you not read anything I've written????? Just because Big Mom reacts differently to the cake and the portrait does not mean that one is more important to her than the other! We know that she goes on a murderous rampage once she gets food cravings, just because she doesn't use Conqueror's Haki during her food rampages doesn't mean it's a lesser reaction. Also, you say "hunger pangs do not equate to the level of rage out of control", but Big Mom doesn't fly into a rage when the picture gets broken, she falls into despair! Do you honestly think this is rage:
https://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/onepiece/images/0/04/Big_Mom%27s_Sound.png/revision/latest?cb=20170320092022and not this?
http://i.imgur.com/RFlm2Jq.jpgAlso, I am not ignoring Big Mom being mad at everything, because she shouldn't be mad at everything! I have explained MULTIPLE TIMES that her reactions to the loss of these two treasures are not the same. For the food, she flies into a rage and attacks everyone in order to get more food, and for the portrait, she shrieks and falls into despair! Those two reactions are NOT compatible, and Big Mom will have to decide whether she wants to get that food, or whether she wants to mourn the loss of her picture.
Also, Tamiel's image gives significant proof from the manga itself that Big Mom is torn between the two and is just as affected by the loss of the cake as the loss of the portrait. Not to mention this panel, where Big Mom mentions both of them in the same capacity:
http://i.imgur.com/Bl5ThLG.jpg?1I have yet to see any solid evidence from you, other than your baseless notion that Conqueror's Haki and shrieking is somehow a sign of greater catastrophe than going on a mindless rampage. What have you got from the manga that indicates Big Mom values the picture more than the wedding cake?
Rage out of control that harms EVERYONE due to the photo broken > Rage over the cake causing a few chefs their lives and not being able to take jinbei's. How can u not tell the difference between the effects of each outcome? Pedo and Katakuri claim to be afraid of what mama's going to do yet doing nothing to stop moms rage by killing luffy or helping to kill sanji themselves. Well Mom doesn't even know what to be mad about so oda doesn't know what to do with these guys either. lol.
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This Arc isn't very serious. It cant be because the real fight between BM and Luffy won't happen untill much later.
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I'm not gonna lie. I was just looking for a fight and to use the term jackassery, but I respect that you dignified me being an idiot with an actual well thought response. I don't have the energy to debate these long posts that go into intricate details that are mostly speculation. I enjoy the series and am willing to casually defend nitpicking and overt criticism because things usually get explained or turn out better than expected.
I can respect that you're humble and responsible to not use my reply as an excuse to follow through with that intent. Especially instead of the possibility of not replying at all to pretend it never happened. That's actually really cool to see.
And that's perfectly fine. There's no shame in picking your battles wisely. I apologize if I seemed too pretentious in my post as I want or completely expect Oda to disappoint me. I'm only going off of the impression he's set so far with the arcs flaws and how I feel the portrait's introduction into the plot could have been much more organic. I always hope I'm wrong in cases like these. And if I didn't have hope in Oda's credibility as a writer, I wouldn't still be reading. It's because I love the series that I acknowledge its pros and cons. I only want to be honest to my passion and standards for One Piece's writing and entertainment as a whole. Primarily to help spark discussion, inform people or be informed, and make new friends. That's why forums appeal to me.
I may have forgotten to mention this, but I at least liked how this chapter handled the Vinsmokes and Bege. And maybe the panel where Daifuku smacked Pudding into the background lol.
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All this talk about pros and cons about Oda's current and more recent writing style and I'm just here blindly loving everything he puts out, I'm not particularly keen on critiquing the work as if it's meant to be a literary masterpiece and I agree that when something has been going on for so long there is an air of things getting rushed, not executed well, having no prior build up and being brought out of thin air just to keep the story going. But I do hold back on judging things until the conclusion of the arc because the whole portrait thing will definitely have a satisfying backstory to it and we might only have to wait 1 or 2 more chapters to figure out it's importance to the plot at hand. Someone will provide exposition in the form of flashbacks or thought bubbles.
@Count:
I can respect that you're humble and responsible to not use my reply as an excuse to follow through with that intent. Especially instead of the possibility of not replying at all to pretend it never happened. That's actually really cool to see.
And that's perfectly fine. There's no shame in picking your battles wisely. I apologize if I seemed too pretentious in my post as I want or completely expect Oda to disappoint me. I'm only going off of the impression he's set so far with the arcs flaws and how I feel the portrait's introduction into the plot could have been much more organic. I always hope I'm wrong in cases like these. And if I didn't have hope in Oda's credibility as a writer, I wouldn't still be reading. It's because I love the series that I acknowledge its pros and cons. I only want to be honest to my passion and standards for One Piece's writing and entertainment as a whole. Primarily to help spark discussion, inform people or be informed, and make new friends. That's why forums appeal to me.
I may have forgotten to mention this, but I at least liked how this chapter handled the Vinsmokes and Bege. And maybe the panel where Daifuku smacked Pudding into the background lol.
I think if you shared what you liked about a chapter with your review-like posts more often you would have less confrontations with people who might mistake you to be an Oda basher lol
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I think if you shared what you liked about a chapter with your review-like posts more often you would have less confrontations with people who might mistake you to be an Oda basher lol
That… might make some sense lol. It's just that I like to contribute thoughts that aren't really said or at least not that much. And that typically happens to be criticism. But I suppose I can still work on that.
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So is alladin going to be a fleet Commander or an unofficial ally. To me the most interesting thing of this chapter is the coverstory. It's funny that the alliances are shown right around the end of the big mom arc. We all know what comes after are arxly trip to mariejoa except this time it will be to the summit of nobles. Cobra, vivi, dalton,neptune, ezibello, riku and possibly don chin Sai or whoever is the king of Kano will be there. We already seen that chinese looking guy say that Kano had alot of commentary to bring up.
My guess is their will be a fallout between those who suppourt luffy and those that want him dead. This might be where the fleet captains show their ass and make legends of themselves.
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Next chapter will probably be just Big Mom breaking down from the picture and an annoying flashback about her and Mother Caramel. Then in a few chapters, or the next one after that, Vito and Gotti would launch their rockets only to be blocked by Pekoms. Fortunately, they still have a third one and let's have Brook have it to continue his awesome streak (and Sanji still continues to be an effing useless background character, ahem). Big Mom is successfully hit, but it didn't kill her for (not so) obvious reasons. They're in a pinch (for the 98th time this arc) and Perospero being the arrogant bastard he is shit-talks them, then Big Mom asks him to open the Tamatebakko which explodes in his face. He faints from the shock and all structures in Totland, which is made from his candies, crumble. This conveniently includes the guns and whatever else that that hold the Vinsmokes down.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
BTW, I honed my CoO to see a few chapters into the future.
Though everyone has the power to change it.
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@Kaido:
What you and Screwtape are misunderstanding is that with Big Mom, one catastrophic reaction is not bigger than the other, they're just different. T
Come on, that’s totally denying. They are different indeed. And this difference indicates how much importance it has for Big Mum. That is just simple logic. The more importance an object has, the angrier Big Mum is when it is destroyed.
We don’t know either if the portrait is unique. Sorry but you claim they are the same without proof when Oda has written otherwise. So my understanding is logicer than yours so I will stay with it -
? I am pretty sure Kaido said he DOESN'T see the reaction as equal. Only that Big Mom was torn between the two. As shown in this panel:
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Oops, the three, Strawhats seemed to be in the mix there too. In fact going by that panel, she puts the wedding cake ahead of the photo. So the cake > portrait. Jajaja.
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@K.:
http://i.imgur.com/Bl5ThLG.jpg Oops, the three, Strawhats seemed to be in the mix there too. In fact going by that panel, she puts the wedding cake ahead of the photo. So the cake > portrait. Jajaja.
Chronological events at the wedding.
Anyway, this is actually the first time I remember seeing something like this in One Piece, and really pretty much any story, especially one that normally deals with combat. This time, when the villain comes up with a douchey plan, instead of even laying a hand on the villain, the heroes just totally buttf*** the villain's emotions six ways from Sunday. Honestly, in terms of psychological warfare, it'd be interesting to see how a real-life bad guy would react, knowing they deserved this kind of thing. (Of course, Big Mom's reactions here will be predictable, and without remorse. Also this is not even counting the treasure box from Fishman Island, which would've happened anyway, and while also deserved and given by the heroes without intent to cause physical harm, might actually hurt her.) I suspect Oda was more inclined to do things this way given her gender, but regardless, it's a really unique event for One Piece.
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Would be great to see her calm down…plan goes to hell... she gets a new cake and opens the box next to it...boooom... enelface and then hell will break loose