Could Mother Caramel be luffy's mother or maybe grandmother ?
Why? Because it's a woman we never seen?
Could Mother Caramel be luffy's mother or maybe grandmother ?
Why? Because it's a woman we never seen?
A mice in Cheese Town. I guess Oda loves Tom & Jerry soooo much, huh?
Because Tom & Jerry totally invented mice liking cheese?
Dunno if it's been brought up yet but I saw a post elsewhere suggesting the tamate box will go off, Luffy will mistake that for the gunshot signal and attack at the wrong time.
I honestly just think Mother Caramel may have been a giant. Maybe someone important to the giant ranks. Then she brought up Big Mom as an apprentice and somehow the relationship got fucked so Caramel either died/ran away and that's why Big Mom's relationship with the giants is so fucked to begin with, and then got even more fucked with the Loki-Lola thing.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Dunno if it's been brought up yet but I saw a post elsewhere suggesting the tamate box will go off, Luffy will mistake that for the gunshot signal and attack at the wrong time.
An explosion is way different than a gunshot, though, and I don't like the idea of the initial "screw up" that fucks the assassionation plan being that Luffy misheard what he thought was a gunshot. I want the Tamatebako to play a more active role in the disruption of this plot, since it having a bomb inside is information nobody on WCI has. Could be that Big Mom opens the box (she'd be sitting close enough to the picture) for the explosion to damage the picture? Either way I'm pretty sure the Tamatebako will be key to all this, one way or the other.
Dunno if it's been brought up yet but I saw a post elsewhere suggesting the tamate box will go off, Luffy will mistake that for the gunshot signal and attack at the wrong time.
I can only imagine Luffy asking for a redo because the poor timing ruined his hyped enterance.
And the tamatebako is not a part of the plan, interesting…
Maybe the explosion before the kiss mess up the plan.
My absolute favorite thing about this arc, by far, is that Pudding is so, SO excited to see Sanji's surprised reactions but she has no idea he's completely aware of her true nature. I just want to see Sanji lift up her veil, her expecting him to be shocked, and him just completely deadpan. I don't care what he does, I just want Pudding to get a major comeuppance somehow, even if that's something as simple as her not getting her way when it comes to her plan.
Pudding will be shocked at Sanji's lack of surprise. Sanji tells her she doesn't have to be a slave to her mom. Pudding hesitates.
Big Mom gets mad and shouts at Pudding. Pudding refuses to shoot Sanji. Big Mom offers part of the Tamatebako to Pudding if she shoots Sanji. She opens it. It explodes.
Luffy hears the explosion and enters from Bege's body to attack the ministers. Bege then bisects the portrait, but Big Mom does not see it through all the smoke. Vito brings out the KX Launcher and waits three seconds to shoot, but right as he pulls the trigger, he comes face to face with an enraged Big Mom. And the rest, they say, is history.
And the tamatebako is not a part of the plan, interesting…
Maybe the explosion before the kiss mess up the plan.
No one there knows the box is filled with bombs.
No one there knows the box is filled with bombs.
I thought Luffy knew about that, i need to reread Gyojin island. My bad.
I thought Luffy knew about that, i need to reread Gyojin island. My bad.
Nah no one besides Neptune and the Right Minister know whats in the box.
Is it me or Pekoms is the new Bellamy? Still loyal to the main villain even if he is friend with luffy, getting his as kicked more times, defeated by luffy's allies(bartolomeo-capone)and at some point I expect him to attack luffy when he goes after BM.
@ITaeyeon:
Luffy will be inside the cake. Or inside a stainless pan that has turkey or chicken in it.. but already down to the bones. lole
No way. Luffy will be inside Bege.
Bege saw Mama on a sinking ship? Are we talking about the ship Kidd destroyed? He sank a ship with BM on board? That's..quite an achievement if true.
@Big:
A few words about my thoughts regarding Big Mom at the end of this arc (or beyond).
Though Big Mom was of course really introduced in this arc, in a way we were already introduced to her long ago. And not just in a "her-name-or-status-was-mentioned-way", but a very personal relationship was already set up. Even though we didn't know at the time that it was her. I mean the scene with Lola at the end of Thriller Bark, where Nami also gets the Vivre Card.
Here is cnet's translations of Lola's words (Chapter 489):
This first mentioning of her mother is very pleasant. It also specifically mentions that the crew would get help from Big Mom. Consider also that Lola is a trustworthy character and very likeable, basically a staunch ally of the Straw Hat crew at the time when she says this. The reader also has from this point on always the expectation at the back of his mind that whoever Lola's mother is, she will turn out to be really helpful. So before we even know the identity of Lola's mother, we are already prepared for her being a helpful character.
Since these words were spoken by a character who is treated in the story as a sympathetic ally, I still have a hard time believing we won't get exactly what was promised back in Thriller Bark and that Oda would change this very special expectation the reader has had for Lola's mother since Thriller Bark.
Now this chapter (859) basically confirms the theory that Pudding plays some kind of Evil Mastermind and has been manipulating especially Linlin's memories. So we now have a good reason to assume that at least the issue of Mom's hatred for Lola and her abusive behavior are really based on false memories. When her memories are finally restored (Pudding hopefully will be forced to repair this … :getlost:) we can assume that she will be quite fond of Lola and not such a bad person.
Except that her having good memories of Lola and her turning out to be not that bad or someone with whom some kind of truce can be negotiated isn't sufficient to end her role. Not after this introduction/first mentioning on Thriller Bark which is now a part of the series for almost half its length and which specifically points to her giving help to the Straw Hat Pirates.
This is similiar to the introduction of Kaido. We learned that Kaido wants to die (a spectacular death) and in a Manga where almost no one dies this is a very big hint that Kaido will die. Kaido's death wish and the fact that various kinds of punishments weren't enough to kill him are part of his introduction and thus part of his whole character arc. His character arc really cannot be completed without him dying. And since Big Mom was first introduced as Lola's Mom and her helping out was part of her description, I don't think her character arc can be completed without her in fact helping Luffy.
The way in which this was specifically alluded to sounds to me like we should expect something special of her. A "truce" or her not bothering the Straw Hats might not be enough to qualify as helping.The question now becomes: How will she help the Straw Hats out? Could it be that she will be around after this arc and her being an ally will come into play later in the story, for instance after Wano?
If I misread things, feel free to correct me. But for example Greg's last comments seemed to imply that what we could expect from her is simply that she wouldn't turn out to be such an evil person. Like I said, I don't know if this fulfills the expectation of her helping out, which was specifically mentioned when Lola talked about her.
I think it is much more likely that Pudding changed Lola's memory to believe that Mama has always been nice to her, rather than completely change Mama's personality. For one, mama has been a Yonko probably way before Roger became Pirate King (at least, that's what I assume, seeing how she possessed a road poneglyph before roger became pirate king) and she has no problems killing her other children. I agree that Pudding really did mix up Mama's memories somehow, but not in a way that would completely change her personality.
I believe it is more that Lola is carefree and was completely oblivious to Big Mom's true nature, like Chiffon had said in this chapter.
In a twisted alternative timeline I can see this happening:
Minister: "Do you, Charlotte Pudding - 35th Daughter of Charlotte Linlin, take Vinsmoke Sanji - 3rd Son of Vinsmoke Judge - to be your lawful wedded husband?"
Pudding: "With all my heart, I do"
Minister: "Do you, Vinsmoke Sanji - 3rd Son of Vinsmoke Judge, take Charlotte Pudding - 35th Daughter of Charlotte Linlin - to be your lawful wedded wife?"
Sanji: "You were the beacon of light in the darkest of times. So looking in all your three eyes and with all my heart, I don't!"
Pudding still under her veil: "What?!"
A gun slides out of Sanji's sleeves in his hand shooting Pudding directly into her stomach, soaking her white dress red with blood
In that moment, everyone frozen from shock and surprise (Pudding probably the most), Luffy hears the signal, jumps out of the cake and smashes the photo
Assassination goes on as planned.
What would be MOST interesting for me is how Vinsmokes will not understand situation and most likely go against Sanji saving them. They(especially Judge) are hellbent on that marriage happening so they will see Sanjis actions as form of a trick most likely.
very true, If Luffyone alliance acts before BM's treason against the Germa, they'd be like wtf???, well unless Reiju tells them what's up Judge would be against Sanji.
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In a twisted alternative timeline I can see this happening:
Minister: "Do you, Charlotte Pudding - 35th Daughter of Charlotte Linlin, take Vinsmoke Sanji - 3rd Son of Vinsmoke Judge - to be your lawful wedded husband?"
Pudding: "With all my heart, I do"
Minister: "Do you, Vinsmoke Sanji - 3rd Son of Vinsmoke Judge, take Charlotte Pudding - 35th Daughter of Charlotte Linlin - to be your lawful wedded wife?"
Sanji: "You were the beacon of light in the darkest of times. So looking in all your three eyes and with all my heart, I don't!"
Pudding still under her veil: "What?!"
A gun slides out of Sanji's sleeves in his hand shooting Pudding directly into her stomach, soaking her white dress red with blood
In that moment, everyone frozen from shock and surprise (Pudding probably the most), Luffy hears the signal, jumps out of the cake and smashes the photoAssassination goes on as planned.
whaaat?? Sanji hurting a woman?? naah.
But I was thinking, if the signal comes from Pudding's shot, and that will happen when Sanji lifts her veil, at that point both have said 'YES' and are already married….. ooh God....
I don't think luffy plans to jump out of the cake…but out of the gifts! It was said the fishman bomb will be among the gifts.
Capone said they have 5 seconds and 3 seconds. BM's scream and coc will take care of the 5 seconds, but they still need to take care of the 3 seconds somehow, from cutting the photo to BM's reaction.
So luffy jumps out of the gifts, he cutts the photo with M. carmel, he activated the fishman bomb that is among the gifts and explodes stopping BM's crew attacking him in the 3 seconds... then bm goes on her scream for 5 seconds while capone shoots her.
to be honest, the Tamatebako exploding on BM is too predictable, and it was since Gyiojin Island, who else would open it right??
but if at least, the beginning of the plan goes right, it all should start with Pudding's shot, and with everyone involved in fight, is hard to picture a scene with BM opening it while her ceremony is already on fire and she's already as pissed as she could be.
betting on the Tamatebako to play the best role, and explode on Pudding's face instead.
to be honest, the Tamatebako exploding on BM is too predictable, and it was since Gyiojin Island, who else would open it right??
but if at least, the beginning of the plan goes right, it all should start with Pudding's shot, and with everyone involved in fight, is hard to picture a scene with BM opening it while her ceremony is already on fire and she's already as pissed as she could be.
betting on the Tamatebako to play the best role, and explode on Pudding's face instead.
Why would Pudding open it though?
Why would Pudding open it though?
That's the right question!
I don't know….. BUT the way I picture things, plan will obviously fail, shit's hitting the fan and as Capone said it, they'd have zero chance of winning in this scenario.
soo, going with Greg's theory, if Pudding is the shittiest person here, then they must take her down in order to give everyone their memories back, I imagine she's going to be safe during the fight, we know Sanji and plus, she's BM's key to Raftel, so she could be chilling around,but if for some greedy reason, she thinks of taking the Tamatebako for herself and use her ability to make BM forget about it, then, it could happen, and she deserves it.
How much you want to bet Pudding will protect Big Mom from Ceasar's weapon come time for it to be used? I could see her being her private bodygaurd.
How much you want to bet Pudding will protect Big Mom from Ceasar's weapon come time for it to be used? I could see her being her private bodygaurd.
The most precious child the one she needs to be pirate king/queen as she somewhat worries over as a body guard?
Nerd Mode on:
A Horkrux has a piece of the soul of the creator in it. It neither protects the user from damage nor from pain. it just makes you immortal (with or without a body), as long as the Horcrux exists. If the horcrux gets destroyed, the creator doesn't feel any changes and is not harmed by its destruction.The picture of Dorian Gray stops you from changing altogether as long as the picture exists. it stops harm (injuries, including deadly ones), aging (wrinkles, bone degradation) or any other physical changes (zombie like appearance from drug abuse, tattoos, etc), but instead the picture version of you changes with all those effects. If the picture is destroyed, the appearances and with that the physical changes swap instantly. The photo shows your healthy young appearance while the creator suddenly looks like a broken f***** up zombie, who is most certainly dead.
Respect.
I can see the form being ala Dorian Grey, but Big Mom can transfer parts of souls into objects, which functionally sounds like a Horcrux.
With all the hype behind the Tamatebako and Oda telling us Mother Caramel's photo will be a few feet away from Big Mom seems to tell me that the explosion will destroy the photo and not Luffy.
Big Mom destroying the photo herself, rampaging and incapacitating a percentage of her own crew, and the alliance+sun pirates safely hidden within Bege would allow for a fair fight to be fought.
I can't help but wonder what Reiju's up to…
With all the hype behind the Tamatebako and Oda telling us Mother Caramel's photo will be a few feet away from Big Mom seems to tell me that the explosion will destroy the photo and not Luffy.
Big Mom destroying the photo herself, rampaging and incapacitating a percentage of her own crew, and the alliance+sun pirates safely hidden within Bege would allow for a fair fight to be fought.
I can't help but wonder what Reiju's up to…
Presents are often opened until the marriage is consumed.
Presents are often opened until the marriage is consumed.
BM is greedy you know, so I dont think she will wait that long… The question is how will SH survive ? just 2 comanders would be more than a challenge for them but with the rooks and underground bosses .... They might make a quick escape or something...
I'm assuming lifting the veil happens after reading the vows right? I'm looking forward to the lies and bs both Sanji and Pudding will read to eachother.
BM is greedy you know, so I dont think she will wait that long… The question is how will SH survive ? just 2 comanders would be more than a challenge for them but with the rooks and underground bosses .... They might make a quick escape or something...
she'd be more entertained with the Cake honestly.
she'd be more entertained with the Cake honestly.
She likes treasure too, she wasn't concerned about the treasure room until she worried about the Tamata Box.
She likes treasure too, she wasn't concerned about the treasure room until she worried about the Tamata Box.
well she really likes that box
I guess I just don't like the Tamatebako exploding on her being too easily predictable at this point.
I guess I just don't like the Tamatebako exploding on her being too easily predictable at this point.
It blows up the cake instead :ninja:
It blows up the cake instead :ninja:
It should've been obvious that they'll blow up the cake ever and cause her to go into a delirious rampage because of her illness since Big Mom mentioned how much she's looking forward to eating it in her deal with Sanji.
It blows up the cake instead :ninja:
After what happened to the ta-ta-tabasco sauce, I'm going with anything but BM.
I'm assuming lifting the veil happens after reading the vows right? I'm looking forward to the lies and bs both Sanji and Pudding will read to eachother.
Hey, it'll only be true till "death do they part" :P
Pudding will be like
@Kaido:
Hey, it'll only be true till "death do they part" :P
Pudding will be like
https://media2.giphy.com/media/l2YWxy11DtoOAiSKk/200_s.gif
More like:
I guess I just don't like the Tamatebako exploding on her being too easily predictable at this point.
I agree with you about the gifts usually being for after the ceremony, but the party being crashed by the Straw Hats doesn't give much of a chance for that plot thread being resolved. The thing most curious about it to me is what it does in the original story. I always wondered if it was meant to be opened by Pudding hoping it would make her older and thus allow her to read the Poneglyph's. And that line of thought just leads me back to Double Agent Pudding not wanting throw years of her life away just to be a tool.
Side prediction: Luffy puts in the earplugs while hiding and can't hear the gunshot.
While Pudding might be the most evil character around, who would deserve being taken down, i still see her potential.
Her DF has to be explored more and also her third eye ability has to awaken or otherwise why even bothering introducing it.
So maybe Pudding will have a shock during the wedding that awakes her third eye ability, so that everyone sees her.
By that she would be hunted in the NW by everyone, without her being able to alter all the memory, which would grant her a life of always being on the run, just like Robin had to endure.
@Don:
While Pudding might be the most evil character around, who would deserve being taken down, i still see her potential.
Her DF has to be explored more and also her third eye ability has to awaken or otherwise why even bothering introducing it.
So maybe Pudding will have a shock during the wedding that awakes her third eye ability, so that everyone sees her.
By that she would be hunted in the NW by everyone, without her being able to alter all the memory, which would grant her a life of always being on the run, just like Robin had to endure.
That just makes me wish she could be Robin's final opponent in the Blackbeard Pirates lol.
@Count:
That just makes me wish she could be Robin's final opponent in the Blackbeard Pirates lol.
but that'd be 12 people :/
but that'd be 12 people :/
That's why I said wish.
!
! This is relevant due to Totland being fairy tale-themed. :ninja:
This chapter really sets the finale up nicely with the plan to assassinate Big Mom, though I have the feeling Luffy will not want her dead (drawing similarity to Goku's attitude on Frieza).
As for the plan… well it's not going to go as planned and Luffy will be smack bang in the middle of that. I think the mirror world is the most crucial part which will work out eventually for the escape. I like how Oda created a mystery with the photo of "Mother Caramel", could be a possible flashback. It may be a known character to Luffy which could change everything. Big Mom's random wail is peculiar, Luffy's ability to hear the voice of all things might kick in and he could make sense of it.
Capone Bege is a character I'm liking right now. He has a thirst for bloodshed and he's pretty laid back about it but deep down he can't wait for the moment to "whack" Big Mom. Bege had this planned out and now he's thinking having the Straw Hats as sudden accomplices is a gift from above considering how powerful they are, but it could be quite the opposite where Luffy is concerned. Bege's plan feels too sinister for the Straw Hats to go along with it once the moment comes, I'm guessing the photo will play a major role in that. This Tea Party will be full of surprises but there'll be no bigger surprise than when that Tamatebako box explodes, that'll shock everyone.
*Pandaman spotted in Cocoa Island Chocola Town bottom right sat on a... horse/ dog.
@Count:
That just makes me wish she could be Robin's final opponent in the Blackbeard Pirates lol.
I like the idea of Blackbeard picking up Pudding into his crew. With her manipulative ability and personality, she would fit in perfectly.
I have a problem. Bege is carelessly talking about killing someone and Luffy is agreeing with the plan.
I have a problem. Bege is carelessly talking about killing someone and Luffy is agreeing with the plan.
It's not like Luffy ever really has an issue with killing bad guys. He never criticized Law for wanting to kill Doffy. He just doesn't like his friends or innocent people getting hurt.
You know, i'm surprised Brook didn't volunteer his services as a distraction so the alliance could get the photo and assassinate Big Mom. He could probably charm the panties off Linlin in 5 seconds at this point, if her reaction to his "death" is anything to go by. But then he probably doesn't want to brag to everyone about how he slept with an Emperor, he is a gentleman afterall.
Seeing glimpses of new locations we probably won't get the opportunity to explore is such a cruel tease. I feel kind of bad for the general population of Totto Land, they're totally oblivious to the chaos in store for them at this wedding.
Looking forward to finding out what the Mother Caramel mystery is all about. Lots of backstory potential for Linlin there.
Good chapter. Lays a foundation for moving forward.
My take:
1. The Tamatebako box will explode before any of the two factions gets to execute their signal. That's where the chaos will start from.
2. I agree with Greg that Sanji will be very busy: #Pudding will try still to shoot him, and he'll have to deal with it without hitting her. #At the same time he has to worry about his family being caught up in the surprise.
3. Big mum's side will also be disoriented by the blast and may move into action but then she will have Luffy (who would have also jumped out) to deal with.
4. I think the SHs may actually end up causing Pudding by some incident to reset people's memories to their original form. Thus saving BM somewhat.
5. Vinesmokes will be pitifully saved by Sanji. Judge may actually cry at the end. And I can Sanji brothers teaming up with him to fight if they aren't rekt by the special bullets before they get the chance.