Chapter 851: Tab End
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Nevermind, probably olldddd :D
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This is going to be the best wedding blowout ever!
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Happy New Year Everyone!
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I am pretty sure the only thing that matters is if Luffy likes them or not. Everyone else can suck it up. From what I remember Zoro never trusted Robin until he heard of her sacrifice, then he started making faces.
It is not like this has not happened before neither. Brooke's original invitation was delayed until he got his shadow back. Jimbe should have joined at Fishman Island, but the consequences of dealing with Big Mom are far more complex, than just taking down a warlord like Moria. More than taking down, the consequences of messing with her. Got to put some perspective.
We still have yet to see how Mama uses her soul power in a fight.
Only taking years if you are scared and making an army with the environment.
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If Sanji was to kick Pudding without some kind of Hiatus X Hiatus-like twist, it would deeply (deeply) cheapen his actions and decisions to this point.
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@Count:
Uniaka might have gotten that from me. I've been a frequent "Big Mom doesn't go down/isn't the final arc antagonist" supporter pretty much since I've joined on this forum, and I've occasionally debated with Uniaka about Big Mom's fate. Which I always end with proclaiming that either Luffy and Big Mom for an alliance or they form some sort of arbitrary truce of some sort. The latter being some type of deal, but not something as awkward and random as having a literal tea party and polite chatter. Probably some type of exchange that has to do with Luffy playing a game with Big Mom, most likely the roulette that Pedro and Jimbei played. I've always expected Big Mom to be grateful and grow to respect the Straw Hats due to the likelihood of Chopper and Sanji likely playing a role in curing her illness (or at least alleviating it with medicine/food if it's a complex mental illness), as well as the Straw Hats inevitably stopping Bege's coup and perhaps a potential takeover from the Vinsmokes depending on how the wedding chaos and Fishman Island bombs shift power plays and what not. But I also don't see her handwaving everything without a lingering care, especially with how Brook and Pedro tried to steal her Poneglyph scriptures. Which is why a game would be perfect and still give Linlin credibility as an intimidating Yonko.
But those are just my two cents. I hope that clears things up lol. Pudding's betrayal shakes things up a bit, but nowhere near enough to change how obvious it is for Big Mom to not go down this arc.
This is finally the arc where be get payoff on the Davy Back fight!
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Miss:
I just don't see any reason why, if Oda was serious about Jinbe joining them, he couldn't have had him tag along after Fishman Island. He could have gone with them to Dressrosa and that would have been a good testing ground for them. Hell, freakin' Ceasar Clown has had more "bonding" with the Strawhats than Jinbe has at this point. He stuck around. Law stuck around. The 3 samurai that have done nothing up to this point stuck around. The furries stuck around. Why not Jinbe? Again, it just seems like a lot of teasing and setting up for something that could have easily already happened if it was meant to happen.
Because one, it did lead into legitimate story setups with the arc we're in right this very moment.
and two- having another Warlord in the crew, when they already had Law, would have left Luffy's team as a whole much stronger and better off. Both Punk Hazard and Dresserossa would have been a very different arc with Jinbe there as yet another world class powerhouse… and at a time when Oda was still trying to show off the SH's post-timeskip powers. Would he have also entered the tournament or helped fight Doflamingo? Would he have stayed with the weak group and been a strong guy along with Sanji guarding the weaker members? That arc already had Fujitora and Sabo being needlessly sidelined, and the entire strawhat fleet being there, and removed half the crew to keep the Dofla tension high. Now that they're dealing with the opponents the next wrung up the ladder from Warlords, its okay to have Warlords as allies.
Also, I get the impression that maybe Oda had planned for Punk Hazard and Dresserossa to go a little faster. On Fishman Island he originally set the tea party for "three day from now" and then later had it postponed to accommodate the plot developments since he first gave that deadline. So that particular little detail makes me think he'd planned to be at this point a little sooner than four years later. WHich is probably also why he gave Jinbe a coverstory in the meantime to keep him fresh and remembered, instead of moving onto the next villain redemption cover story.
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This is finally the arc where be get payoff on the Davy Back fight!
I've seen that theory in a couple of places, and I would absolutely love that. But I don't know if that can fit if Reverie and Wano Country start next year, and Totland is "supposedly" over 50% done (although that might just be talking narratively than literally)
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I'm expecting Pudding to not get defeated in a regular fight tbh.
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What does that mean, exactly? (/does not read the series)
Hunter Hunter pulls some weird psychology tricks to twist characters in knots and make them do things they would never otherwise have done.
And then goes on a break for two years.
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@Count:
I've seen that theory in a couple of places, and I would absolutely love that. But I don't know if that can fit if Reverie and Wano Country start next year, and Totland is "supposedly" over 50% done (although that might just be talking narratively than literally)
I'm mostly joking about that in terms of this arc. I'm sure it will come back into play at some point…. you can't set up Davy Jones and then not deliver on it in some way. But I do agree and have been saying since well before this arc even started that BM was not going to be beaten and would maybe be an ally before it was all done.
Mostly based on how differently she and Kaidou have been set up and established, and everything since then has only refined that more.
Kaidou is so terrifying they need to build a multi-nation army, multiple warlords, and recruit the Whitebeard pirates to deal with him, that both Law and Doflamingo are terrified of. He fought with Shanks and murdered Moria's crew and killed the Shogun and is an unstoppable monster that cannot die.
Big Mom can be dealt with by only half the crew going after her, and has got a bunch of lovable nice people as underlings and has a nice dream centered on family and and a snack based theme and is willing to let people go follow their dreams as long as they don't disrespect her... who happens to have a dark side. Its been treated very very differently for years.
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If Sanji was to kick Pudding without some kind of Hiatus X Hiatus-like twist, it would deeply (deeply) cheapen his actions and decisions to this point.
Not even a slap?
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I thought the Shogun was working with Kaido.
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Hunter Hunter pulls some weird psychology tricks to twist characters in knots and make them do things they would never otherwise have done.
And then goes on a break for two years.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I'm mostly joking about that in terms of this arc. I'm sure it will come back into play at some point.... you can't set up Davy Jones and then not deliver on it in some way. But I do agree and have been saying since well before this arc even started that BM was not going to be beaten and would maybe be an ally before it was all done.
Mostly based on how differently she and Kaidou have been set up and established, and everything since then has only refined that more.
Kaidou is so terrifying they need to build a multi-nation army, multiple warlords, and recruit the Whitebeard pirates to deal with him, that both Law and Doflamingo are terrified of. He fought with Shanks and murdered Moria's crew and killed the Shogun and is an unstoppable monster that cannot die.
Big Mom can be dealt with by only half the crew going after her, and has got a bunch of lovable nice people as underlings and has a nice dream centered on family and and a snack based theme and is willing to let people go follow their dreams as long as they don't disrespect her… who happens to have a dark side. Its been treated very very differently for years.
Eh, Senor Pink and Baby 5 were nice people too and we know what happened to Doflamingo… I don't think Big Mom will fall though.
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Killed Oden. We tought that Momo was the son of the shogun for so long that the fact that he wasn't was the twist.
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@Tamiel:
I thought the Shogun was working with Kaido.
Meh, I always mix the title's up.
Momo's father.
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Eh, Senor Pink and Baby 5 were nice people too and we know what happened to Doflamingo… I don't think Big Mom will fall though.
Senor Pink had a tragic backstory, but he wasn't nice. And most of Dofla's other higher ups were terrible people.
And Baby 5 got scooted off into another group rather than be with Dofla at the end.
Meanwhile, Big Mom has people like Pekoms and Jinbe willingly working for her, and tons and tons of family members. Its a different dynamic.
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I'm mostly joking about that in terms of this arc.
lol That makes sense. I can't see anything that wacky happening with how dark and chaotic the whole wedding conflict has become.
I'm sure it will come back into play at some point…. you can't set up Davy Jones and then not deliver on it in some way. But I do agree and have been saying since well before this arc even started that BM was not going to be beaten and would maybe be an ally before it was all done.
To be fair, a pirate ship as famous as the Flying Dutchman got wasted on a scrub like Vander Decken IX. And the surname "Jones" got used for Hody, although that doest mean we can't see some sort of satisfying representation of Davy Jones at some point. But I still agree though, and I've seen you post those type of thoughts on Big Mom before.
Mostly based on how differently she and Kaidou have been set up and established, and everything since then has only refined that more.
Kaidou is so terrifying they need to build a multi-nation army, multiple warlords, and recruit the Whitebeard pirates to deal with him, that both Law and Doflamingo are terrified of. He fought with Shanks and murdered Moria's crew and killed the Shogun and is an unstoppable monster that cannot die.
Big Mom can be dealt with by only half the crew going after her, and has got a bunch of lovable nice people as underlings and has a nice dream centered on family and and a snack based theme and is willing to let people go follow their dreams as long as they don't disrespect her… who happens to have a dark side. Its been treated very very differently for years.
I've said all of that plenty of times. Kaido's been established as the big cheese savage war monger without mercy who several major plot threats that have been the main focus lately connect to. Not to mention emotional tension of Luffy's promise to Momo about kicking Kaido's ass. Big Mom… started a "war" with Luffy because of a misunderstanding over eating her candy tribute, and is someone who both Pekoms and Jimbei, allies of Luffy, were willing to trust and negotiate with. That alone speaks volumes on where the true threat lies. But there's still frequent debating, even after Luffy barely managed to beat one Sweet General lol (not that Big Mom has to be defeated in a fair and square one-on-one fight and can't be weakened or ganged up on, but who would seriously be satisfied with a Yonko takedown like that?).
Eh, Senor Pink and Baby 5 were nice people too and we know what happened to Doflamingo… I don't think Big Mom will fall though.
Those were revealed after the fact during their fights though. You could also highlight characters like Kaku who were genuinely cool people in that same sense. Characters like Pekoms and Jimbei, who are friends of the main protagonist, are our first impressions of the type of villainy that embodies Big Mom. A very morally grey and even somewhat respectable villainy in certain aspects. Meanwhile, we get Jack and the attempted Mink genocide on Zou for the impression of the Beast Pirates.
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Jinbe will be a strawhat in wano!
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Did anyone point out the possibility of Pudding erase Big Mom's memories? So Zeff would be safe and the straw hats may flee carefree.
Don't ask me how or why she would do that. -
Did anyone point out the possibility of Pudding erase Big Mom's memories? So Zeff would be safe and the straw hats may flee carefree.
Don't ask me how or why she would do that.Maxterdexter did. But in regards to why Big Mom seems to hate Lola despite Lola claiming that Big Mom wouldn't be mad at her in Pudding's flashback. Dex thinks that maybe Pudding was supposed to be the bride for that wedding, but decided to change Big Mom's memories since Lola was leaving. Which would explain why Big Mom seems to uncharacteristically want to betray the Vinsmokes.
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
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And people saying that Sabo's amnesia was dumb.
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@Count:
Maxterdexter did. But in regards to why Big Mom seems to hate Lola despite Lola claiming that Big Mom wouldn't be mad at her in Pudding's flashback. Dex thinks that maybe Pudding was supposed to be the bride for that wedding, but decided to change Big Mom's memories since Lola was leaving. Which would explain why Big Mom seems to uncharacteristically want to betray the Vinsmokes.
Wow. But it seemed Pudding was a little kid back then. Lets see…
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@Count:
Maxterdexter did. But in regards to why Big Mom seems to hate Lola despite Lola claiming that Big Mom wouldn't be mad at her in Pudding's flashback. Dex thinks that maybe Pudding was supposed to be the bride for that wedding, but decided to change Big Mom's memories since Lola was leaving. Which would explain why Big Mom seems to uncharacteristically want to betray the Vinsmokes.
Oh damn, that would demolish my theory of Pudding being a good & nice girl just doing all this for love and plotsake.
Maybe she edited Lola's too, she mostly anxious to get a groom and for what? Returning to the guillotine? That's suspicious.
Sabo's anmesia dumb??? Why didn't read that before? I could've joined the fray… i'm still waiting for people to rise for Ace's mother and her attempt for her child to live, i would've loved if Ace died there.
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@Count:
Which would explain why Big Mom seems to uncharacteristically want to betray the Vinsmokes.
What's uncharacteristic about it? She takes things she wants from people all the time, candy, body parts, souls. She doesn't need the Vinsmokes, just their resources. Plus, she never said she wouldn't kill them all. Shame on Judge for not considering that as a possibility.
“I thought of Godzilla as the embodiment of violence and hatred for mankind, because he was created by atomic energy. He's like a symbol of humanity's complicity in their own destruction. He doesn't have an emotion. He is an emotion.” — Jun Fukuda
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What's uncharacteristic about it? She takes things she wants from people all the time, candy, body parts, souls. She doesn't need the Vinsmokes, just their resources. Plus, she never said she wouldn't kill them all. Shame on Judge for not considering that as a possibility.
She taxes and collects, the only things that she has plundered in the manga were the cake ingredients. And the son she killed on a low sugar in the blood moment.
Fishman island and the unnamed destroyed island offered candy for protection.
Her citizens pay in lifeforce instead of tax money or slavery.
The eye was given to her, and the roulette has been used to give a price to crimes against her nation or a person who wants to leave her nation.Unreasonable, of course, but compared to everyone else currently on her weight category, who destroys towns for fun, blows up islands for secrets, boils alive political rivals, keeps the release of dangerous criminals a secret to save face, it seems tame.
Also, if she betrays the Vinsomkes here, then is done, you can only have One red weeding. After that no big fish will come to the trap, and it doesn't seem like the Vinsmoke are big enough to warrant that.
The other thing, is after marrying an unknown number of offsprings, why this one is the one that she decides to betray?
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On reddit someone made a good case jinbe's schtick is despite growing up im a rough neighborhood, hes kind of a big softy, like awkwardly eating after hancock scolded him, his enthusiasm for joining luffy to his crew etc
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@Count:
lol It's cool. If anything, as much as I support and like Jimbei, I agree with your points. But I do look at his potential from a different perspective. Longass post incoming:
! While I personally care a fair bit about how each Straw Hat uniquely contributes action-wise, I definitely agree that comes second to personality and character interaction. And I do agree that at least at first glance, Jimbei has no real outstanding "edge". Which is a shame, but I don't think it's the end of the world and means he can't contribute anything meaningful. Which I will get to in response to your specific reasoning.
! To be fair, if you're going to criticize how there are already three straight men, then I could say the same for having three perverts on the crew, Luffy, Usopp, and Chopper always acting as the naive childish members, Nami and Robin always acting apathetic to all of the boys geeing out, or Nami, Usopp, Chopper, and sometimes Brook acting as a cowardly choir of banshees. Not that this automatically makes your point of Jimbei possibly offering nothing unique mute at all or that we can't prefer not having more characters tacked on to these crews, I just wanted to point that out.
! In regards to the straight man trope, you have to understand that as a trope, it has a VERY broad range of different types of execution. Being serious and reasonable aren't really personality traits at all rather than different levels of focus and analysis. Stuff like how one is serious is characterized, from barely being emotive to constantly being paranoid to being very outwardly passionate and confrontational. Those right there are personality traits, because everybody is serious and reasonable when it comes to various things. It doesn't mean we act the same way just because we are concentrated on something. Logic and emotions having to be two separate things that can't intermingle or compliment each other is a complete fallacy.
! The reason I bring all of this up is because, like I said earlier, the straight man trope has a broad range of executions. And this is very apparent in the Straw Hats. Zoro is always badass and hardly emotive, but he's barely logical at all. Luffy and Nami frequently make fun of him for being an idiot, he's lazy and drinks all of the time, he is completely over-the-top with his training, always itches to fight strong opponents while ignoring those that are weak, has a penchant for being morbid when it comes to threats and desperation tactics, and often gets frustrated with Straw Hat antics. I wouldn't say Jimbei shares ANY of those traits.
! Robin's knowledgable, non-emotive, likes cute things, acknowledges morbid subjects, and is amused by her crew's zany antics. Jimbei shares the first two traits, but he's much more experienced when it comes to the New World and big players on the pirate side of things like the Yonko (Robin's knowledge has to mainly do with the Void Century/World Government/Revolutionary side of things in contrast. But even then, Jimbei has spent actual time working WITH the World Government, and he knew about Akainu becoming Fleet Admiral, Teach's rise to power, and even often reads newspapers to catch up with world events), and can often be VERY dedicated towards selflessness (and unlike characters such as Usopp who are weak, Jimbei would actually be one of the strongest fighters and constantly struggle to protect others as well as himself like with Luffy in Marineford), having hospitality, acting grateful Those are pretty bland traits on their own (that goes without saying), but characters like that can often shine when complimented by a cast of characters who don't share those affinities rather than being the main or sole focus.
! Brook is constantly making jokes, asking to see panties, doesn't like when people take life for granted, can be ironically terrified, often admires/envies others, and is old and knowledgable. But honestly, when it comes to the knowledgable, he hardly EVER contributes besides off-hand amusing statements about considering Roger, calling Big Mom a young lady, or shedding a bit of Wano Country info. He could have enlightened us about the history of Germa 66 in Zou and might have even had a past encounter with them, but nope, Oda wanted to settle for cheap suspense in his tension without proper payoff for his character utilization. I wish Oda would take advantage of him more both knowledge and action-wise, but he just doesn't care for it. Jimbei's different from Brook for obvious reasons.
! Even when it comes to the perverts, they all act differently in how Brook makes shameless sexual advances, Sanji tries to pull a chivalrous nice guy act and being pathetically mesmerized by them to be bound to their every will, and Franky uncomfortably lacking much clothing and grandstanding all of the time.
! And I love how you assume that my earlier comment about Jimbei's face faults was the best argument I could make for Jimbei's uniqueness lol. I agree that Jimbei's characterization seems to not be making as many "risks" as the other Straw Hats and that his main attribute is really being "nice". So when it comes to him as a character in an individual spotlight, yeah, I totally understand how lackluster he seems. I've had my own share of major gripes with characters who seem to only play a straight man role and have little-to-no individual character themselves, especially if all they do is be naive, panic in response to the protagonist or a threat, and build up courage (that sort of sounds like Usopp lol, but he is MUCH more unique as a lying everyman character than the type of supporting characters I'm talking about). Yeah, he's not the first type of eccentric guy you would want to party with. But we've had several main characters like that already. Having one that isn't like that actually helps them stand out.
! To be fair, if every cast member we're used to is not open to always acting ethically or sensibly, doesn't that make a character like Jimbei help stand out even MORE? In fact, it seems that the entire point of Jimbei leaving his crew to join the Straw Hats is so that he could learn to be more selfish. And at this point of the story, that would be quite interesting to see. Especially with an experienced powerful veteran character with all sorts of major connections than, say, the cliche of having an inexperienced newbie/ fan who is a fish out of water that represents the audience by being "normal" and just wanting to help out (you have no idea how much I LOATHE those types of characters).
! I think it would be very entertaining for such a character to be gradually influenced to be more indulgently flawed by his comrades. Especially with how wacky and selfish we have known the Straw Hats to always act, and are finally becoming known throughout the world and interacting with both allies and wide territories/empires of opposition. More efficient tactics are needed more than ever, and Jimbei is the perfect representation.
! In fact, that is how I think Jimbei can stand out as a Straw Hat in the most memorable and unique fashion compared to how boring his other traits are individually. Being a tactician. Yes, we brought up how knowledgable Robin is before, but she's only good for worldbuilding exposition dumps on that front. Everyone loves Sanji's Mr. Prince antics, but he's always does those both solo and improvised. Usopp plans only in terms of preparing weapons and analyzing the behavior of his opponent Batman-style, and is proficient in deception. Franky is just a kooky inventor who lead a bunch of dismantler thugs. Brook is useless besides providing battle support or diversions. Chopper is often weak and gullible, but sometimes his medical knowledge can help out immensely like when fighting Oars and probably with Big Mom too when her illness wreaks havoc again. Both Luffy and Zoro are meatheads. Nami is the closet we've ever had to rallying everyone for teamwork, but that's mainly relegated to just ship work, and is mostly executed in a jokey bossy way where she either intimidates people or is comedically ignored.
! With Jimbei though, especially with how respected he is and having years of experience as a pirate captain/Warlord, he can actually plan out full strategies of giving crewmates and allies designated roles and missions. The likes of the Emperors, Admirals, and even Doflamingo have been pushing for the narrative to focus more on characters fulfilling specific objectives (like when it came to blowing up the SMILE factory in Dressrosa and negotiating Caesar) and acting covertly (such as with the Straw Hats trying to lay low with only a few members in order to rescue Sanji. Not to mention Brook and Pedro's Road Poneglyph espionage escapades). Law's mainly handled the reigns of this type of stuff since forming the alliance between the Straw Hat and Heart Pirates in Punk Hazard to take down Kaido, but Jimbei could easily take over that. And it falls perfectly in line with his personality, as seen when he tried to fight Luffy in order to convince him to help Fishman Island's predicament with Hody and to not rush into battle headfirst. With how Jimbei has literally saved Luffy, his future captain, a whopping FOUR times (Akainu, Luffy accepting Ace's death, the transfusion, and Big Mom's book prison), as well as being called "Boss Jimbei" frequently (even by Usopp and Chopper at the end of Fishman Island), it would make sense if he was regarded as the de facto first mate of the Straw Hats (I say "de facto" because that obviously won't be his literal position. It's most likely Helmsman, and having a first mate title would make the relationship and trust between the Straw Hats feel more biased in my opinion). At least in terms of acting as an efficient substitute captain in contrast to how Luffy is an imbecile, but meant to be the inspiring figurehead that leads the charge and takes on leaders of antagonist factions.
! In fact, HE'S ALREADY MADE A PLAN WITH THE STRAW HATS BEFORE.
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! http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-x6mCCpG4ok8/WBpJVdFyarI/AAAAAAABNRg/DX_44Uq3yqkypIvT3WZJyYMlR820Xft4wCHM/s16000/0634-004.png
! http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-VPNSyrfkFnE/WBpKKkx36qI/AAAAAAABM7w/VHcKnP8y-V0JnSEJnDTcTUgLaEYrWEFPwCHM/s16000/0634-005.png
! http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-k0X0DGMupwc/WBpKp_9izYI/AAAAAAABMv8/cUC0eF_Yr3kCNcmO95jWUONO_HaQNuG-QCHM/s16000/0634-006.png
! http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Jfg8pmhGLZw/WBpLF6vnRtI/AAAAAAABLjg/XHOYjGVe1gM2izX3Gk54eCXk_abfioWeQCHM/s16000/0634-007.png
! And you see that little tidbit at the end of how Jimbei wanted to give his plan an operation title? How freaking hilarious it would be if that became a recurring gag for the Straw Hats' tactics? For an example, if he were to help devise a plan to take down Kaido at Wano Country, he could name it something as epic and random as "Operation Ouroboros" (that is a name of a symbol of a dragon eating its own tail, which would fit Kaido most likely having a Mythical eastern dragon Zoan Devil Fruit. And Kaido can probably be so impulsive and destructive like the rest of his crew that a plan meant to provoke and manipulate him would technically be Kaido "devouring" himself.
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! https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/87/Ouroboros_1.jpg/800px-Ouroboros_1.jpg
! So a crewmate joining, no, any major story moment in general being predictable is automatically bad or telegraphed? C'mon. One Piece, as creative as it can be, is a formulaic shonen story at its core. Anyone with the slightest bit of narrative comprehension knows events like Blackbeard killing Shanks is going to happen or Luffy not being strong enough to defeat Big Mom in the Totland arc. And whenever a new crewmate shows up, besides maybe Robin, it's usually VERY obvious that they're going to join just from seeing how much work Oda puts into their design alone. Even with Franky despite the initial tension between the Straw Hats and Franky Family. Surprise moments like Kaido falling out of the sky to meet the Kid Alliance is cool and all, but having major predictable moments get consistently built up can be extremely effective when investing the audience. Stories aren't always about how surprising the result is, but the journey and hurdles experienced on the way there.
! And yet you say this as if Jimbei's procedure of joining isn't unique when its been spread out for several years. Not to mention that, similar to Robin, he is a major figure in the overall narrative of One Piece that defies the typical humble beginnings/social misfit arc joining structure (and I'm talking about Robin in present time, not how she was a pariah in her Ohara flashback). Also, Jimbei joining the crew earlier than Totland NEVER made any storytelling sense with how he was a powerful Warlord and had a bounty/reputation bigger than Luffy's until after Dressrosa (which is the last arc with a Warlord antagonist. Jimbei being present would mess with Doflamingo's threat credibility by making it too underplayed or overplayed). Not to mention that Fishman Island was the first arc (unless you want to count Return to Sabaody Archipelago lol) post-timeskip where the Straw Hats had to show off their new designs and abilities, and reacclimatize the audience to their character interactions after being separated so long. Having a new member join right off the bat would have been awkward with how we haven't even gotten time to get used to how the main characters have changed and seeing the upper limits of their power with how the New Fishman Pirates were a joke.
I understand that a new crewmate not being awe-inspiring on their own is disappointing. But in terms of the story and relevance he has had, especially with Luffy, he is in his own weight class of astonishment. We have nine crew members already, and traits are bound to be somewhat repeated at this point (which they already have with Brook being a pervert and a swordsman lol). Not every character is going to sweep you off your feet. And that's okay. In such a diverse cast, that is very probable to happen. Not to say that a creator shouldn't strive to make every character appealing in their own right though. I'm sorry you're disappointed. But when evaluating Jimbei, you should acknowledge what he brings to the plot and crew dynamics rather than just as an individual character, and perhaps then you can understand why people are still hyped to see him join.I personally find Robin to be pretty boring since Thriller Bark with how she's been relegated to plot exposition and only contributes to action from the sidelines, with her non-emotive personality not helping out with that at all. But her dynamic with the rest of the Straw Hats, especially when you see moments like how she aid in Zou that she knows everybody can protect her (and how a few other crewmates blushed) still makes her endearing on a character development/interaction front.
My feedback could be a lot worse. XD
I think there will be more to brook's "did somebody say vinsmokes" then the hint
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There's one thing bothering me about the latest developments. It feels like they're all happening too soon. No, not in terms of pacing. As far as story structure goes, this is a fine time for things to start turning in the Straw Hats' favour. But in terms of the in-universe time - it's all so early. Think about it, Luffy and Nami are breaking out, and Luffy's going to want to go straight on the offensive; Pekoms has knocked down his most obvious opponent; Brook is so close to his objective, even with Linlin standing in his way; Chobro and Carrot have taken over the mirror world; Sanji has realised the folly of his strategy up to this point. Everything's in place for the Straw Hat comeback battle. But it's just too soon.
The wedding isn't until tomorrow, everyone keeps saying it. The storm clouds make it kinda hard to tell exactly what the time is, but the fact that Sanji's concerned over Pudding missing a lunch meeting in chapter 849, with no mention of either dinner being skipped as well, or being close, leads me to guess we're sometime in the afternoon. Even assuming it starts early in the morning, the ceremony is presently more than 12 hours away, and Luffy will want to clobber Linlin immediately. It's enough to make me just a little worried we won't get to see the wedding at all.
The contingency, I suppose, is Jimbe. He's appealed to Luffy's common sense and made him hold back from a direct assault on someone he just wants to hit before (at Impel Down and Fishman Island), so it's reasonable that if he had a plan that could only work if they put it into action during the ceremony Luffy might convinced to wait. And with Chobro and Carrot around, there are tools for plan-making here. But this leaves Brook's fate uncertain, and gives Pedro nothing to for 12+ hours until the wedding starts.
Basically I think it's gonna take some interesting narrative gymnastics to get all these moving parts to align for their plots to satisfyingly conclude at the wedding from this point. (Because logically we have to see the wedding.) I'm interested to see how Oda will do it in the next few weeks.
I think your underestimating the length of the wedding, the pedro part I feel will either be sidetracked and finished later or be completed first
Chapter 437 Discussion after franky decides to join the Strawhats:
So who think Usopp is inside that duffelbag?
H x H Chimera Ant Arc / OP Manga Spoiler
Spoiler:
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That's strange, where's Faith's Monday Viz Translation?
The face of a Straw Hat. -
@The:
That's strange, where's Faith's Monday Viz Translation?
Jump leaked early as always during this time of the year. The chapter isn't officially released until January 7th, so you'll have to wait a week for Viz.
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Wow. But it seemed Pudding was a little kid back then. Lets see…
She was. So unless Oda wants to start incorporating pedophilia into the series, we can safely toss this theory out the window. I'm not even sure how Pudding would even do something like that, especially as a child. We know for a fact that Lola ran away from a marriage.
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And people saying that Sabo's amnesia was dumb.
I never outright said I agreed with it, I just wanted to answer SuperEro's question. It's not like I would seriously care to see something this convoluted happen lol. It feels really cheap to me after all of the complex emotional investment this arc and Big Mom being such a complex morally grey villain. But then again, what I also find to be immensely cheap is Linlin's sudden willingness to betray her moral code (respecting other people's ambitions, agreeing to "equal exchange", being a lenient negotiator within reason, and not wanting pirates to compromise on what they want) and potentially compromise her reputation by betraying the Vinsmokes just because. And I don't know… That memory Devil Fruit just REEKS of plot retcon/unsatisfying plot conclusion to me, especially before we've gotten to see the inevitable Lola flashback.
My only real loophole I see with the theory besides the generic "it's too complex even though I can't highlight any flaws" is why Pudding would monologue about being Linlin's special little girl if that's technically a lie. I can kind of understand why everybody is theorizing that Pudding told Luffy and Nami that to potentially manipulate them. But why tell all of that to Reiju, someone whose memory she was about to erase, like a Bond villain if her words weren't true? Unless, someone wants to argue that she somehow KNEW Sanji was eavesdropping, and that would almost be some Aizen keikaku level BS.
Wow. But it seemed Pudding was a little kid back then. Lets see…
Good point! But… Does Big Mom really care about age though? Arranged marriages happen with children that young in real life all of the time, scarily enough. ESPECIALLY for the brides. Why do we have to assume that the groom had to be an adult instead of an equally young groom?
What's uncharacteristic about it? She takes things she wants from people all the time, candy, body parts, souls. She doesn't need the Vinsmokes, just their resources. Plus, she never said she wouldn't kill them all. Shame on Judge for not considering that as a possibility.
Judge has always been cautious though. He chose Sanji to not risk any of his "precious children" and has explicitly said that he's willing to take Pudding hostage on Germa Kingdom for potential leverage. He has absolutely no reason to believe that Big Mom would decide this marriage, out all of her political marriages, to be the one where she uncharacteristically back-stabs the other party. For the reasons Dexter and I have already stated, it completely goes against her MO ethically and logically. She makes allies for their resources all of the time, like Jimbei with Fishman Island. Why does she suddenly decide the Vinsmoke Family specifically is expendable? I very much doubt someone like her grew a conscience about their war atrocities overnight.
@Long:
I think there will be more to brook's "did somebody say vinsmokes" then the hint
I really want to believe that. I seriously want to believe that Brook could actually contribute something major to the plot (although the Road Poneglyph plot thread is definitely getting interesting with Big Mom confronting him) and for Oda to take advantage of his decades of pirate experience for something more than cheap tension suspense. But he's had all of the time in the world to do that, and we've gotten nothing. And Brook was only concerned about Germa 66 and the Vinsmokes before Pekoms told the Straw Hats about who they were, so it can go without saying that Oda only had Brook's behavior present to hype up their generic intimidation factor.
She was. So unless Oda wants to start incorporating pedophilia into the series, we can safely toss this theory out the window. I'm not even sure how Pudding would even do something like that, especially as a child. We know for a fact that Lola ran away from a marriage.
I'll repeat this again. If Pudding was that young, why do we have to assume that the groom also wasn't that young? Arranged marriages are frequently selected that early in planning out children's lives, sadly.
And actually, it's BECAUSE she's a child that makes it even more possible. Because as ridiculous as it seems, looking so innocent and harmless actually gives her the perfect cover. I don't really think we should doubt the capabilities of children in a manga where the Vinsmokes were trained as super soldiers as strong or stronger than adult men during their childhood, Zoro training everyday inhumanly and even having an actual sword duel recklessly, Law narrowly survived the genocide of White Town/threatened to commit suicide with body-strapped grenades, where Robin is able to survive a genocide and keep herself alive for years retreating from island to island as a fugitive and eventual assassin with a falsified bounty of over 80,000,000, and Shirahoshi is a living Ancient Weapon capable of summoning behemoth-sized Sea Kings since witnessing and keeping her mother's a death a secret as a child. With a fruit as simplistic and sort of hax as Pudding's, it's possible and only depends on the situation.
But like I said earlier, I don't actually want this to happen. I just reposted the theory to answer a question and spark discussion lol.
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
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How do you explain this arc to someone asking about it within a 30 to 60 second period to keep it fluent? Im thinking once its completed, because this marriage becomes rather complex to explain from the beginning.
Something like "Sanji agreeing to a marriage so to protect his friends from adversaries he knows are more than a match in reckless confrontations. Family reunion with a repulsive family and another family he does not know, meets a bride he falls in love with, fights with his friends to keep them safe. Then discovers the marriage to be a farce covering a more sinister plot, a plot his bridge cheerfully gloats and brags about to the supposed victims as he listens to a mockery impression of what was left of him."
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How do you explain this arc to someone asking about it within a 30 to 60 second period to keep it fluent? Im thinking once its completed, because this marriage becomes rather complex to explain from the beginning.
Something like "Sanji agreeing to a marriage so to protect his friends from adversaries he knows are more than a match in reckless confrontations. Family reunion with a repulsive family and another family he does not know, meets a bride he falls in love with, fights with his friends to keep them safe. Then discovers the marriage to be a farce covering a more sinister plot, a plot his bridge cheerfully gloats and brags about to the supposed victims as he listens to a mockery impression of what was left of him."
To be fair, how would you explain any arc in One Piece in such a brief context since Alabasta or even Arlong Park? I would love to see somebody sum up the Skypiea, Water 7/Enies Lobby, the Marineford War, Punk Hazard (which I've actually tried lol), or Dressrosa.
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How do you explain this arc to someone asking about it within a 30 to 60 second period to keep it fluent? Im thinking once its completed, because this marriage becomes rather complex to explain from the beginning.
Something like "Sanji agreeing to a marriage so to protect his friends from adversaries he knows are more than a match in reckless confrontations. Family reunion with a repulsive family and another family he does not know, meets a bride he falls in love with, fights with his friends to keep them safe. Then discovers the marriage to be a farce covering a more sinister plot, a plot his bridge cheerfully gloats and brags about to the supposed victims as he listens to a mockery impression of what was left of him."
"Sanji has an arranged marriage with the daughter of one of the 4 strongest pirates in the world. Sanji is trying to protect his friends from the pirates wrath of not attending the wedding. But Sanji finds out his future wife is a fake and only a lure to kill Sanji's family and seize his families advanced technology. While this is all happening, other members of the Strawhats are trying to get a copy of the Poneglyph that has information about getting to the One Piece."
I wrote it so it could be explained to a person that's not very familiar with One Piece, not sure who your audience is.
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Like, how far into One Piece is the friend? The very concept of this arc is a spoiler to anyone not through mid-Zou and I'd rather have them enjoy it for themselves.
Spoiler:
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If Zoro had a religion, it'd be Zoroastrianism.
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@Kaido:
Like, how far into One Piece is the friend? The very concept of this arc is a spoiler to anyone not through mid-Zou and I'd rather have them enjoy it for themselves.
It's often spoilers like that which get me interested in series as long-running as One Piece though, even if I can't comprehend the full gravitas of it from being immersed in the characters and narrative buildup. Not that you should reveal EVERYTHING, but bits and pieces of the series' later examples of plot complexity can be quite persuasive.
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
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"Sanji has an arranged marriage with the daughter of one of the 4 strongest pirates in the world. Sanji is trying to protect his friends from the pirates wrath of not attending the wedding. But Sanji finds out his future wife is a fake and only a lure to kill Sanji's family and seize his families advanced technology. While this is all happening, other members of the Strawhats are trying to get a copy of the Poneglyph that has information about getting to the One Piece."
I wrote it so it could be explained to a person that's not very familiar with One Piece, not sure who your audience is.
The intended audience is someone who has not read or watched One Piece at all. Im personally also curious to how this will add to the flavor of storytelling One Piece can compel to its audience, when people summarize the journey.
Like with Nami and Cocoyashi Village, the story is explained as Nami losing her foster parent to a pirate whom promises her and the village freedom over a promise he never bothered to uphold, finally betrays the promise when nearing fruition. The village folk realize the deceit and march off to die, Nami helpless in the realization of it all, stabs the mark the pirate inflicted on her and Luffy seeing this, puts his hat on her, vows to help her. He walks over to the pirate gang and fiercely asks out loud "Which one is Arlong?". -
She taxes and collects, the only things that she has plundered in the manga were the cake ingredients. And the son she killed on a low sugar in the blood moment.
Fishman island and the unnamed destroyed island offered candy for protection.
Her citizens pay in lifeforce instead of tax money or slavery.
The eye was given to her, and the roulette has been used to give a price to crimes against her nation or a person who wants to leave her nation.Unreasonable, of course, but compared to everyone else currently on her weight category, who destroys towns for fun, blows up islands for secrets, boils alive political rivals, keeps the release of dangerous criminals a secret to save face, it seems tame.
Also, if she betrays the Vinsomkes here, then is done, you can only have One red weeding. After that no big fish will come to the trap, and it doesn't seem like the Vinsmoke are big enough to warrant that.
The other thing, is after marrying an unknown number of offsprings, why this one is the one that she decides to betray?
One could interpret the candy tributes, soul taxes, and roulette wheel as expressions of entitlement. The citizens of Totto Land literally give up their lives because Linlin believes they owe her that much. The roulette wheel exists for her own personal amusement, but also because if you want to do something like sever ties with her like Jinbe, you owe her something vital. If you can't offer suitable tribute for her protection she may very well decide annihilating where you live is warranted retribution. That's beyond unreasonable, that's insane.
I can't imagine killing off the Vinsmokes would be a huge deterrent in forging future alliances. The Germa 66 have a pretty horrible reputation in the world partly because of that comic about them, and partly because they're awful. I'm sure lots of people wouldn't lose any sleep if they were gone. She could possibly make herself look better in the eyes of the world by doing it. The Germa don't appear to have any allies either, another reason why they're in this mess.
@Count:
Judge has always been cautious though. He chose Sanji to not risk any of his "precious children" and has explicitly said that he's willing to take Pudding hostage on Germa Kingdom for potential leverage. He has absolutely no reason to believe that Big Mom would decide this marriage, out all of her political marriages, to be the one where she uncharacteristically back-stabs the other party. For the reasons Dexter and I have already stated, it completely goes against her MO ethically and logically. She makes allies for their resources all of the time, like Jimbei with Fishman Island. Why does she suddenly decide the Vinsmoke Family specifically is expendable? I very much doubt someone like her grew a conscience about their war atrocities overnight.
Judge is delusional. He's self aware enough to realize that this scheme of his carries risk, that's why he's unwilling to put people he actually cares about in harm's way. But his greed and egotism is clouding his common sense, he only chooses to see how he stands to benefit that's why he's going through with it anyway. The fact that holding Pudding hostage is even on the table demonstrates that he knows this is a less than ideal situation for him. Going by what Pudding says to Reiju during their one sided conversation, it appears that Linlin is using the alliance as a pretense to hold the Vinsmoke Family hostage and take them for everything they have. Why? Because it's what Big Mom wants, and everything she does comes down to that.
“I thought of Godzilla as the embodiment of violence and hatred for mankind, because he was created by atomic energy. He's like a symbol of humanity's complicity in their own destruction. He doesn't have an emotion. He is an emotion.” — Jun Fukuda
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The citizens of Totto Land literally give up their lives because Linlin believes they owe her that much.
They give up their lives because they think they owe her that much. They can leave whenever they want.
Mom is not a 'good' person.
She's a pirate.
Whitebeard was not a 'good' person.
He was a pirate.
Luffy is also not a 'good' person.
He's a pirate.
Luckily for the world, he has a child-like understanding of what a pirate is socially defined as and he just happens to do really, really, really good things when someone he respects or sees as a friend is troubled unfairly.
I wouldn't contend the notion that Mom is a good person but it doesn't mean there aren't potentially positive results of her actions and that characters who seem reliable, recognize that about her.
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@Count:
It's often spoilers like that which get me interested in series as long-running as One Piece though, even if I can't comprehend the full gravitas of it from being immersed in the characters and narrative buildup. Not that you should reveal EVERYTHING, but bits and pieces of the series' later examples of plot complexity can be quite persuasive.
Ah, I see. For me it was very different as I just about strangled my friend when he revealed details about Marineford while I was still in Alabasta.
I'm still not really sure how to describe this arc to someone who's never read the series, though, since many of its plot elements are built off extremely advanced characterizations/plotlines created years ago. It's not like the usual arc where the Straw Hats randomly end up on an island and pick up a plot from there, they were forced to come here by a variety of things.
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They give up their lives because they think they owe her that much. They can leave whenever they want.
Right, but I don't see how she could go through with it if she didn't feel she deserved their souls in exchange for the privilege of living in her territory.
Mom is not a 'good' person.
She's a pirate.
Whitebeard was not a 'good' person.
He was a pirate.
Luffy is also not a 'good' person.
He's a pirate.
Luckily for the world, he has a child-like understanding of what a pirate is socially defined as and he just happens to do really, really, really good things when someone he respects or sees as a friend is troubled unfairly.
I wouldn't contend the notion that Mom is a good person but it doesn't mean there aren't potentially positive results of her actions and that characters who seem reliable, recognize that about her.
Any positive results that come from her actions are the by-product of her own personal satisfaction. She's accustomed to getting what she wants when she wants, that's why she doesn't make it a habit of burning bridges.
“I thought of Godzilla as the embodiment of violence and hatred for mankind, because he was created by atomic energy. He's like a symbol of humanity's complicity in their own destruction. He doesn't have an emotion. He is an emotion.” — Jun Fukuda
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Right, but I don't see how she could go through with it if she didn't feel she deserved their souls in exchange for the privilege of living in her territory.
shrugs She's a pirate. She's super old and this ensures she gets to see her dream come true. Makes perfect sense. If she sucked at the service she provided people wouldn't give their lives away.
If you do the math, which I think I did in an old column, people can still live very full lives to ripe old ages, probably even older than I'll make it, from birth to death in TL despite her policy.
Any positive results that come from her actions are the by-product of her own personal satisfaction. She's accustomed to getting what she wants when she wants…
This could just as well describe Luffy. Which was my point.
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One could interpret the candy tributes, soul taxes, and roulette wheel as expressions of entitlement. The citizens of Totto Land literally give up their lives because Linlin believes they owe her that much. The roulette wheel exists for her own personal amusement, but also because if you want to do something like sever ties with her like Jinbe, you owe her something vital. If you can't offer suitable tribute for her protection she may very well decide annihilating where you live is warranted retribution. That's beyond unreasonable, that's insane.
I can't imagine killing off the Vinsmokes would be a huge deterrent in forging future alliances. The Germa 66 have a pretty horrible reputation in the world partly because of that comic about them, and partly because they're awful. I'm sure lots of people wouldn't lose any sleep if they were gone. She could possibly make herself look better in the eyes of the world by doing it. The Germa don't appear to have any allies either, another reason why they're in this mess.
I don't think wise, honorable, and selfless Jimbei would have decided to make an alliance with Big Mom, the Yonko who occasionally likes to backstab the people she tries to ally with before the alliance is even formed. Or that somebody like Pekoms who clearly cares for his homeland would do such a thing either. At least when Zepo had all of his lifespan stolen, he and Pedro presumably caused a mess in Totland and got Baron Tamago to lost an eye. And by villain standards, Big Mom letting them off the hook with a roulette is pretty tame. Nobody's who wants to get along with Big Mom are going to look at somebody as powerful and oppressive as Big Mom betraying Germa 66 and think that she's an admirable person that they could trust to protect them. They'll think she's almost as unpredictably belligerent as Kaido, which would break her image.
We're not saying that Big Mom is reasonable. Of course she isn't. But her ethics are still understandable and consistent up until Pudding's reveal though. That's what we have an issue with. Because Oda has hitting us over the head time and time again with how Big Mom is prone to negotiation, doesn't care for the reasons why as a form of respect, and how bystanders/crewmates are surprised at how she is willing to bargain despite how intimidating she is. Oda building all of that up only to let it go down the drain with her breaking that code on a whim if what Pudding says is true betrays Big Mom on levels of ethics, logic, and overall character/writing quality. Which I wouldn't be a fan of when it comes to what I admire from Oda's storytelling, characterization, cooperative/conflicting perspectives, and compelling figurative themes.
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Oda went as far as to show us, not one, not two, but FOUR DEALS where Big Mom successfully gave her honest word and respect to the other party of the negotiation in respect to her beliefs of piracy, selfishness, and "equal exchange". It's so easy to just wave Big Mom's actions off as her just being "bad" or "psychotic". And while those adjectives aren't necessarily false (she does even seem to literally have some form of mental illness lol), they don't give proper acknowledgment to how her actions benefit others and how some RESPECT and APPRECIATE some of those ethically complex facets. Like Greg just mentioned with the citizens of Totland, and my earlier examples of Jimbei and Pekoms.
Not to mention that Big Mom's ideals of piracy embodying earnest selfishness heavily align with Luffy's philosophy of how pirates are distinct from heroes because of how selfish they are, and how he wants to be Pirate King in order to be the freest man in the sea without being bound by any obligation, even the law. Given how recurrently deep Oda likes to get with and scene parallels to monumental moments of pirate ethics with Luffy (like his meeting with Bellamy in Jaya paralleling Higuma trying to humiliate Shanks in the bar in Chapter 1. Or Luffy first meeting Usopp and telling him to not bluff when expressing a verbal threat about guns paralleling what Shanks said to Higuma when he captured Luffy and threatened Shanks. Or Luffy and Teach's parallelism in general), I very much doubt that is a coincidence. Luffy and Big Mom obviously disagree on how they EXECUTE their beliefs, but that common ground they share in their philosophical foundation is going to be relevant, and will most likely play a role in how the Straw Hats get away from Totland without unrealistically defeating Big Mom. But Big Mom betraying that makes her reach two-bit irredeemable villain territory like every past arc antagonist who have no redeemable qualities whatsoever, while Oda at least portrays Big Mom uniquely as a mixed bag for some peculiar reason. Especially in comparison to Kaido.
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You can actually see the both the profound similarities and dissimilarities between Luffy and Linlin in those few page; Just from how alike they sound when looking at the first page and imagining how different their actions and quotes would be in the rest with how Big Mom goes about the roulette dealings and the political marriages where she cares less about the say of her children.
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You claim that her selfish personal satisfaction only merits positive results as a by-product. While I don't fully agree with that, even if you believe that, that doesn't mean her personal satisfaction can't be bound by consistent STANDARDS. Those standards being the reason why people make alliances with her in the first place. She might be crazy and selfish, but in her own unique way compared to most other people. Which means she doesn't have to necessarily act similar to other corrupt selfish individuals such as Kaido or Teach, or be viewed to be as negatively influential as they are.
Judge is delusional. He's self aware enough to realize that this scheme of his carries risk, that's why he's unwilling to put people he actually cares about in harm's way. But his greed and egotism is clouding his common sense, he only chooses to see how he stands to benefit that's why he's going through with it anyway. The fact that holding Pudding hostage is even on the table demonstrates that he knows this is a less than ideal situation for him. Going by what Pudding says to Reiju during their one sided conversation, it appears that Linlin is using the alliance as a pretense to hold the Vinsmoke Family hostage and take them for everything they have. Why? Because it's what Big Mom wants, and everything she does comes down to that.
And how exactly do you propose a situation where he can retake North Blue, which would therefore promote a high chance of going to war with the Marines/World Government, without there being a potential risk? Big Mom is literally the only reasonable Yonko to go to for such an operation. Shanks would be too noble to go along with such an endeavor, Kaido is way too savagely cruel and impetuous, and nobody in their right mind should make a deal with somebody as power hungry and cunning as Teach without some sort of contingency (which I expect Kuzan has in some fashion). If Judge wants Germa Kingdom to effectively expand and reclaim its former glory, Big Mom is legitimately one of or the ONLY chance for him to get that. So of course there are risks involved, and that's obvious. But it doesn't mean that it's expected or sensical for Big Mom to want their destruction.
Big Mom is psychotic and selfish, but like I've been saying, she does what she wants for CONSISTENT reasons. You just keep looking at those adjectives and take them at face value to mean she randomly does whatever and doesn't care to hold herself to any standards when that clearly isn't true from what her characterization has constantly affirmed. You might as well apply those "delusional", "greedy" and "egotistical" labels on Jimbei also for getting involved with Big Mom, or Luffy for wanting to become Pirate King and holding other pirates accountable for their dishonorable atrocities as a means of saying he shouldn't judge them by your line of logic. As if to say "Luffy's a pirate, and pirates are often synonymous with greedy, oppressive, homicidal plunderers. So why should he have an issue with people like Crocodile, Moria, or Doflamingo who are like that?" You're acting as piracy or philosophies can't have reasonable differentiations in execution between individuals, which people should come to understand as they become familiar with their reputation.
I don't mean any personal disrespect towards you when I say this, but your argument makes you sound like an ignorant beat cop or newspaper publisher in a superhero movie who criticizes the heroically selfless protagonist by equating masked vigilantes with criminals because they both act outside of the law, and thus we should prejudicially expect all of them to be menaces to society. Or I can give an honorable mention to Akainu's logic in how he judges anybody who defies his Absolute Justice dogma by obstructing as meriting death and can't have justifiable reasons behind their actions. Because, of course, all pirates evil and can't have a consistent or respectable form of ethics. That comparison somewhat works too, but I hope you don't interpret that as me saying you're literally that deluded/corrupt lol. I just pointing out a similar type of hole in your logic rather than generalizing.
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
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shrugs She's a pirate. She's super old and this ensures she gets to see her dream come true. Makes perfect sense. If she sucked at the service she provided people wouldn't give their lives away.
If you do the math, which I think I did in an old column, people can still live very full lives to ripe old ages, probably even older than I'll make it, from birth to death in TL despite her policy.
This could just as well describe Luffy. Which was my point.
The way you talk about bigmom seems right since there is no other good way to deal with her out of this arc or zeffs life if she is enemy
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I like how the thread title still has "Goat Overlord". lol
Makes me yearn for the days when I rocked the Pwngoat avatar.
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@Long:
I think your underestimating the length of the wedding, the pedro part I feel will either be sidetracked and finished later or be completed first
The length of the wedding isn't the issue; it's the amount of time between right now and the wedding. It's still more than 12 hours away! Closer to 24, even, if it's an afternoon one. And Luffy is going to want to counterattack right now. I'm sure it'll go for long enough when we get there, but that seems a long way with the present setup.
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@Count:
I'll repeat this again. If Pudding was that young, why do we have to assume that the groom also wasn't that young? Arranged marriages are frequently selected that early in planning out children's lives, sadly.
Okay, but why would lola marry a child? Why would this particular child be the key to becoming pirate king & overpowering the other emperors? Big mom said she would have accomplished these things long ago which implies that the marriage would have happened years ago not when pudding became of age (something that happened in recent times). This theory does not add up.
With a fruit as simplistic and sort of hax as Pudding's, it's possible and only depends on the situation.
In what situation would pudding be able to insert her hand into BM's head and edit her memory without her being aware of it?
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The problem with the theory that pudding is the one that rejected the wedding and blame it on lola that was leaving, is that pudding would need to mess with everyone's head, all family members, all people from the family that was going to unite with BM and evryone on the island. With reiju she had to touch her head to do it, so looks like way too much trouble.
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Why did Pudding shoot Reiju ???
Just to tell Sanji the story and reveal her ability?Makes abolutely no sense to me. Or do I miss a point?
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@dwo:
Why did Pudding shoot Reiju ???
Just to tell Sanji the story and reveal her ability?Makes abolutely no sense to me. Or do I miss a point?
Reiju heard by chance her plans and decided to confront her, then she had to shoot and capture her? And then told her everything because she can play with her mind anyway.
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@uniaka:
The problem with the theory that pudding is the one that rejected the wedding and blame it on lola that was leaving, is that pudding would need to mess with everyone's head, all family members, all people from the family that was going to unite with BM and evryone on the island. With reiju she had to touch her head to do it, so looks like way too much trouble.
Yeah is a longshot, unless no one except Big Mom and Pudding originaly knew.
The timeframe is the more daming argument though, but the difference of viewpoint so severe of Lola and Big Mom can't be just brushed away.
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I have a theory. Not sure if it's already mentioned as I skip here after reading page 11.
Judge Vinsmoke is redeemable. He actually cares for Sanji. He's just too proud to admit it. Sanji has always been on his mind. When he hatch the big mom plan, he realise that's his chance to bring sanji back. When Sanji lacks in training, he encouraged him. When he still couldn't keep up, he didn't get rid of him. He continue taking care of Sanji, even though he lock him up. He even get Reiju to visit him regularly. When Sanji wants to escape, he work out with Reiju to let him escape. He even go to say goodbye to sanji.
I expect judge to come gd in 2 chapters.
Yewmun
Nothing exists; even if something exists, nothing can be known about it. Even if something can be known about it,
