If Oda writes himself into a corner, he'll probably just take a hiatus until he thinks up a good solution. In the intervening time, his fans will boldly march on, complaining about the frequency of his breaks, why character X is cooler than anything, why character Y keeps getting shafted, and what we're going to do until the next chapter is released. And of course, MST any bad filler arcs Toei produces during his hiatus. Nevertheless, I believe that most, if not all of you here now, complaining will continue to be fans.
Oda drawing himself into a corner?
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That's not writing yourself into a corner, that's just a turn in the story. Do you really think the author couldn't think of a way to beat Jyabura?
Oh yeah, and he's always been the weakest (or tying with Nami) Strawhat. He doesn't have to beat a Sanji level opponent, he just has to prove his worth.
It's like the Shs beating by the CP9 at Water 7…only longer.
I dunno, I might say he was tougher than Nami. Of course I feel awkward making ANY predictions like that, because Oda usually just has people fight whoever's fighting style they'd do best against and hang the power level (nami VS Ms. Doublefinger, for example.)
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You just piss some people off is all. What are you even arguing? This and that and this and that and this and that CONSTANTLY. There's no end to it. Have more introduction and conclusion paragraphs instead of Quote Crappy remark Quote Crappy remark etc. for the rest of eternity. Where's your point? Are you ever going to be done posting in the thread? Are you human? You might benefit from making your own thread, or posting in the current chapter thread.
If you read absolutely nothing I said, you've not only furthered my point (further), you're giving me incentive to give up hope for humanity. -.-;
Patience is a virtue. Anger ruins careers. Deal.
Immature on whose part? Watchmen was friggin featured on Wikipedia's main page today, it was on Time magazines greatest 100 novels of the past century….its hardly an obscure reference...
I was thinking, "a literary masterpiece? And I have yet to read it?!"
THEN.
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I clicked your link and saw it was a comic book. xD
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Just for the record, I've only read one series of American comic books in my life; Magic the Gathering: Ice Age. I've never touched/smelled/browsed/eaten anything else.
He was always an everyman.
I honestly can't say Iv'e ever expected him to become an incredibly powerful monster. His little victories mean more then an unrealistic monster growth.I keep confusing "everyman" with "competent man", the stock character who can "do anything". I should say, Usopp was always an everyman, but started his progression toward a monster by becoming a "jack of all trades".
Since Oda glorifies Usopp's little victories, I cannot disagree with you; however, his losses are all the more painful because he's frequently delt mortal wounds that he somehow manages to shrug off. If the Sogeking v. Jyabura fight did not result in 1) Usopp, Prince of Liars, falling for the lie of a giant scary werewolf, and 2) Usopp getting ten finger shigan'd, I probably wouldn't have felt so bad for him.
A strawhat in body could be Arlong, Ener, Mr.1, Luchi even…
Spirit really is the most important factor.Funny you would bring up Mr.1, because I was going to cite up Zoro as [generally] a "Straw Hat in body". He's got a simmiar ambition to his crewmates, but in terms of zest/personality he's far removed from everyone else.
And quite frankly I'm having fun. I'm sure Ter[e]k is too.
Conflicts are like fires, they warm you up. Too few and you freeze to death.I agree. When kept civily with less pathos through the post, the debates are giddy discussions; they're a staple of forum talk.
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Just for the record, I've only read one series of American comic books in my life; Magic the Gathering: Ice Age. I've never touched/smelled/browsed/eaten anything else.
You say that as if it's a good thing.
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Sorry, deus ex machina disease warped my mind. I also thought his "I just see a green-toed troll who needs to have his nails clipped" comment in response to the person whom I thought had some valid points, was a bit strange. Most of my
flamefriendly suggestion post can be shrugged off, but when I suggested posting in another thread, I still think that's a good idea. His posts fit perfectly normal to me, in all the other threads, like the Chapter thread which IS about discussing every last thing to its last drop.As for discussing things in paragraph form, I don't mean to say "don't quote ever". Spending more time on one subject is more preferable, however. It gets too overwhelming for the quoted individual to respond, which makes it seem like a fallacy rather than an important debate skill. Not that I didn't have fallacies or well-thought out debate mannerisms. You can make more abstract connections to things this way, which I like more than dull direct responses. This isn't a court room. Maybe I should just get out of here fast. I just think he thinks of himself too perfectly. As for myself, I should definitely use quotes more.
So how 'bout that One Piece. I mentioned something in the 423 thread recently about DEXs, since DEXs are a prime topic to bring up in a thread about what people THINK is the author being driven into a corner, yet they actually don't know. Sorry don't feel like quoting myself.
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what the hell is DEM ( I know what it stands for just what is it)
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You say that as if it's a good thing.
I'm sorry I'm not a comic-book geek.
Sorry, deus ex machina disease warped my mind. I also thought his "I just see a green-toed troll who needs to have his nails clipped" comment in response to the person whom I thought had some valid points, was a bit strange.
You mean, "I LIKE USOPP, I HATE PEOPLE BASHING USOPP, 'GTFO' AND RAWR"? That's a pretty crude way of saying, "take it outside, there are Usopp threads all over the place", which can be done if a moderator clips/merges some posts into one large topic (namely, the Anime 'Is Usopp Comic Relief' topic).
Most of my
flamefriendly suggestion post can be shrugged off, but when I suggested posting in another thread, I still think that's a good idea. His posts fit perfectly normal to me, in all the other threads, like the Chapter thread which IS about discussing every last thing to its last drop.Sure.
As for discussing things in paragraph form, I don't mean to say "don't quote ever". Spending more time on one subject is more preferable, however. It gets too overwhelming for the quoted individual to respond, which makes it seem like a fallacy rather than an important debate skill. Not that I didn't have fallacies or well-thought out debate mannerisms. You can make more abstract connections to things this way, which I like more than dull direct responses. This isn't a court room. Maybe I should just get out of here fast.
When people start clipping sentences or fragments and respond to those glares at Ubiq then stuff gets out of hand. I end up having to refrain from saying all I'd like in a single post because too much writing exceeds the threshold of interest many people have.
Four, five, maybe eight blocks tops seem pretty manageble. When one gets into the thirties like in the Viz topic, it's time to go on vacation. ~.~;
So how 'bout that One Piece. I mentioned something in the 423 thread recently about DEXs, since DEXs are a prime topic to bring up in a thread about what people THINK is the author being driven into a corner, yet they actually don't know. Sorry don't feel like quoting myself.
What do you mean?
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@joekido:
Wow, just wow. Your talking like how I talked against Erket in another thread and you what the mods did? They warned me. Just ignore the arguments here. Some Usopp fans are still not happy with the way Usopp develop in this arc, they wanted him to go what they predicate:
(In the warehouse, after Kaku sank the ship)
Me(really me): Usopp! Beat up Kaku!
(Next chapter, Usopp is bandled up while Kaku is unharmed)
Me: Shoot
(Later, the SHP enters Justice Tower)
Me: Beat up Kaku! Usopp!
(Sogeking enters Jabura's room)
Me: "Groan"
(Jabura woke up and prepares to fight)
Me: Usopp! Beat him up!
(Kaku crash through the ciling with Zoro)
Me: WHY ODA!!??
(Now it's time to fight Kaku and Jabura with Zoro, Usopp huh? Where's Usopp?)
Me: "LOL" He's hiding behind the cabinet! "LOLOLOLOL"
(After the misadventures with the handcuffs, Zoro and Usopp becomes free)
Me: Now fight Jabura! Usopp!
(The fight want on for a few panels before getting 10 shigunned, nearly killing Usopp. But wait! Sanji saved Usopp and took over for him!)
Sanji fans: AH HA! I knew it!
Usopp fans: Nooooo…..
Me: ..... Damnit! Why do I bother predicating? Whoa, now I'm whinning.
(But wait! Sanji says "Go do what you can do and I'll do what you cannot do". The word inspires Usopp! Later he snipes up Spandam, keeping him from taking Robin; giving time for Franky to catch up!)
Me: Okay so that's useful but why is some Usopp fan still clutching their fist in anger?
I guess ever since the Luffy Vs. Usopp fight, Usopp fans think that for Usopp to rejoin the crew; he has to beat a strong enemies to prove his worth.
But they forgot that if Usopp fought Jabura, that would give him the reason to quit the crew, and Robin would have been long gone. Usopp proved his worth already; He turned two Elubafan giants on his side, he burned the WG flag and he delayed Spandam's time. This shows that he does not have to prove his worth through fighting but through his actions.
Usopp already wanted to rejoin the crew, that's why he dressed up as Sogeking because he does not want to show up to Luffy out of the blue and say: Luffy! I'm back! After going through an embarressing decision to quit the crew which would hurt the relationship between Luffy and Usopp even more.
If he does not want to rejoin the crew, then he could have jumped off the Sea Train to swim away which he did not do. He lost his ship and he has nothing left to protect so he decided to go with his friends again to redeem himself
Remamber, the whole argument between Luffy and Usopp was not about who's strong or who's weak; it's about leaving an weak person behind and Usopp tried to defend his ship by choosing to duel Luffy. Usopp thought Luffy wanted to leave behind the weak, Usopp saw the ship like a person with flesh and blood and believes the ship was weak but should never be left behind.
That was the entire point of the duel, it's was never because Usopp was weak, it was to SAVE the weak.
Now that Kaku (thankfully) sank the ship and had nothing left to fight, he knew why he fought Luffy, without the ship; his whole "staying behind to defand the weak" point was gone so now his olny thing left to fight for was helping Luffy and his co. save Robin and his has helped many times. That is who Usopp is, he duty is to help and protect, not to become an musclehead.
We should be happy that Usopp is still with his friends, we should be thankful that he did not swim away.
So, you're saying that Usopp needs to prove his point while remaining weak to prove a plot point? Damn, I think you may have made a good point. Still, I dunno if he's proven his worth yet.
And while I'm here, let me say that this Usopp discussion is destroying us all.
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Great, thanks to the Watchmen reference, I keep thinking of the pirate comic book that kid was reading before The Incident occurs. The cannibalistic Blackbeard poem, too.
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What do you mean?
Someone said:
"DEX isn't something that the author has planned out ahead of time."How can that ever be known without actually having discussion with the author for every little thing? There are the literal definition of DEX on Wikipedia and Webster. But I'm sure everyone has their own connotation of the term based on the individual scenes of OP, since no one CAN get inside the author's head and make him spill the beans about the truth.
If people kept discussing what was DEX and what wasn't, in their eyes, there would be no end. We are already seeing this. It gets quite boring.
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I'm sorry I'm not a comic-book geek.
This coming from an anime/manga forum is strangely disheartening/confusing.
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Someone said:
"DEX isn't something that the author has planned out ahead of time."
How can that ever be known without actually having discussion with the author for every little thing? There are the literal definition of DEX on Wikipedia and Webster. But I'm sure everyone has their own connotation of the term based on the individual scenes of OP, since no one CAN get inside the author's head and make him spill the beans about the truth.If people kept discussing what was DEX and what wasn't, in their eyes, there would be no end. We are already seeing this. It gets quite boring.
It's more accurate to say, "a deus ex machina is something that wasn't foreshadowed or a situation that fails to maintain a suspension of disbelief". In this, we can have a debate about what constitutes "foreshadowing", but I can come up with some examples off the top of my head that do not fit the description I just outlined.
- Usopp inventing the Clima-Tact.
- Oimo and Kaashi as fooled members of the Viking Pirate Crew (debateable).
- Sanji's 'Devil Fire' kick.
- Gear 2.
- Usopp as a blood sponge.
- Zoro talking through his sword hilts.
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whats a deus ex machina? =_=;;;
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Latin for "god of the machine". Literary device employed by an author to accomplish something by causing a virtual impossibility/improbability to occur.
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what the hell? Its ficition guys, Fiction. If its ficition, it can occur….Gear second wasnt a DEX Luffy wanted to say he wanted to try it out.
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Yeah he said in the train he had a new move he wanted to try out. Also, way before that, he fought with Ao Kiji, and LOST. He's lost to Croc once but was still in the same country. Kiji went long gone after he won. Then Luffy used that in the speech before G2. You even said yourself that Oda way later explained well the details of G2. It would also be highly highly lame if he didn't upgrade himself at this point.
Sanji's flame kick was both out of nowhere, and it didn't even make sense in one way or another at all, unless I'm missing a detail.
You actually explained your Oimo+Kaashi point better this time. I see the point – but it's nice to finally have some Elbaf talk again anyway. It just kinda makes those two giants seem dumb. However, they ARE a warrior clan. The Little Garden giants weren't that logical either.
I don't remember the details of 5) and 6)
I don't expect myself to partake in teeth-grinding posts such as I have written in the past hour or so. I didn't know you were going to be so adamant in standing your ground so I'm just posting to show that I can do it but prefer not to.
Here's something to ponder. One Piece is a cartoon, and halfway acts like one. However, it likes to take itself seriously still. So one could say that inexplainable things are bound to happen, which give it its cartoon nature. Usopp brings about 90% of these things into One Piece Reality. It's a highly positive outlook to take, but that's an ideology, too, just like cynicism, or whatever similar word, is.
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I believe Oda-sama has a lot in store for us before the next villian shows up. Ao Kiji will probably be back sooner or later, plus I for one am still dying to know who Luffy's grandfather is and what kind of a person he is/was. While at sea the Mugiwara may be able to take it easy for a little while, but if they arrive at a busy island (such as Water 7) that involves the Government there'll be trouble (even more so than when Luffy first got his 30 million bounty).
More manga-ka I'm guessing know how they'll start their manga and have at least a rough idea how to end it. It's the in betweens that may change due to popularity, fan influence or whatever else. So I think Oda-sama knows what he's doing…apart from driving everyone up the wall with cliffy after cliffy every week ^^" -
This thread is fast getting out of topic…... because of the Usopp,Jyabura thingy.....
anyway.....
@Ceestar:I believe Oda-sama has a lot in store for us before the next villian shows up. Ao Kiji will probably be back sooner or later, plus I for one am still dying to know who Luffy's grandfather is and what kind of a person he is/was. While at sea the Mugiwara may be able to take it easy for a little while, but if they arrive at a busy island (such as Water 7) that involves the Government there'll be trouble (even more so than when Luffy first got his 30 million bounty).
More manga-ka I'm guessing know how they'll start their manga and have at least a rough idea how to end it. It's the in betweens that may change due to popularity, fan influence or whatever else. So I think Oda-sama knows what he's doing…apart from driving everyone up the wall with cliffy after cliffy every week ^^"There is some points in here which mirror's my point of Oda drawing himself into the corner….
I am sure if Aokiji goes on all out (probably given the order to go after the SH) (and assuming that's the case), then it's going to be an Admiral chasing the mugiwaras and it's really really a big deal........ how laid back can Oda draw the Mugiwaras if the big shit they did in Enies Lobby is world shattering that no one ever did for the past 100 years...........
I doubt like some of the people in here said that the World Goverment isn't going to just concerntrate on the mugiwaras....think about it..... 6 pirates + 60+ backups invaded a 10000 strong marines presence island and make it disappear(?) because they had to resort to a buster call. If that isn't enough reason for the World Goverment to push the "red" button, then I don't know how much more Luffy and the mugiwaras has to do in terms of "seriousness".
Let's think about this...
Scenario 1 : Shanks and Whitebeard meeting........effects : two pirates might joined forces.
Scenario 2 : Mugiwara kaizoku takes out Enies Lobby with only 60+ people vs 10000+ marines, defeated CP9 and (probably also destroy half the buster call fleet) and got clean away. plus no one ever "dares" to step into Enies Lobby for the past 100 years (as Kokoro said it).
now, which is more serious shit? If I am one the of the old geezers of the World Goverment, my first reaction to the news about the mugiwaras invaded Enies Lobby would be thinking something along the lines of -> "Monkey D. Luffy. He has shown that if we don't take him out now, this world is doomed." kinda of thinking.
I am sure it's what's most Presidents, Kings, Emperors and Prime Ministers would be thinking if their country is under threat by something as big as this......
Now, back to the mugiwaras trying to get back to their laid back adventure after Enies Lobby...can they really do that at all? The point I stated above would mean that the marines will go on all out to chase after the Mugiwaras........ so, the mugiwaras would have little time to be "laid" back.......in the end, this is not the laid back ways(?) of the Mugiwaras as when they started their journey. And from Water 7, I noticed Luffy is constantly more serious than his usual self.....the laughs and the laid backness is less than before Water 7. As I go through Water 7 and Enies Lobby, I noticed Luffy was "more" serious than usual.......in his previous fights and adventure, he was a "bit" laid back or not as serious as now in Water 7 and then in Enies Lobby.
That's why I said, Oda might be drawing himself into a corner after Enies Lobby.....one one hand, he can do his usual humour stuff for the mugiwaras, but he must consider that since the mugiwaras now are the Public Enemy No.1 on the World Goverment's list, he can't just make it as if the marines aren't capable of tracking a "newbie" pirate, when they could even know about Shanks and Whitebeard meeting, which would be a very big contradiction/loophole/or whatever it is call....... that's what I think.
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A few points to make before I disappear into the LiveJournal sector of the fandom.
Re: Usopp
I play in a D20 Modern game. My character is generally a pacifist and uses her brain to get out of circumstances that would otherwise be dangerous for everyone involved. Though she's shown her own ability to hold her own in a fight when she has to, it is her ingenuity that generally saves her friends from almost certain death.
Similarily, Usopp avoid conflict as well, and, during his fight with Luffy, proved that he does have the ability to hold his own in a fight. When Usopp managed to persuade the giants to join their side, I cheered–one doesn't always need brawn to overcome an obstacle or defeat an enemy.
What's so "unworthy" about that?
How would the battle have ended if the giants weren't on their side?
I found that his skills of persuasion were more impressive than any of the battles that went on before and afterwards–even Luffy's Gear Second. Almost anyone has the ability to throw a punch (even a weak one), but few people have the ability to persuade others. Usopp was able to do so in the middle of a battle.
I find it a little alarming to hear that so many fans determine Usopp's "worthiness" by his ability to fight. Usopp has so many admirable qualities that make him worthy of being a Straw Hat--how about his inventiveness? How about his ability to convince and persuade others? What about his ability to tell interesting stories?
Since when did strength become a factor in someone's "worthiness" to be a Straw Hat?
re: Oda drawing himself into a corner
I agree that we might see a change of tone in the manga once this arc draws to an end, but I don't believe that Oda is drawing himself into a corner; he's a talented storywriter and has–more than once--told us that he, like many other writers, has planned out the entire arc of his story in advance. I do think we'll have more encounters with the World Government than before, but I by no means think this will detract from the story; heck, I'm looking forward to seeing Smoker, Tashigi, and Ao Kiji again. And Oda, having the humor he does, will find same way to script the same comedy he has into the rest of the story.
Have faith in Oda.
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With situation like this, can Oda really draw the Mugiwaras as laid back as before?
I had the same concern myself. Before Oda's comment regarding the series' length I was wondering how close he was to wrapping up. YES I'm well aware of his current position on GL. But you never know what Oda could pull.
That said….
Granted Oda's statement from 42, it seems he's not reay to throw in the towel just yet. I'm certain he'll be able to work with it.
Facts are facts; Sogeking, despite the hype, has not entered the same league as the other Straw Hat pirates.
Try telling that to Robin:getlost:
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Try telling that to Robin:getlost:
Of course the Straw Hats respect Sogeking/Usopp; that's what Sanji's whole speech was about. I'm talking about the fans who are bound to be just a tad more harsh on him in comparison to his (former) crewmates.
Yeah he said in the train he had a new move he wanted to try out. Also, way before that, he fought with Ao Kiji, and LOST. He's lost to Croc once but was still in the same country. Kiji went long gone after he won. Then Luffy used that in the speech before G2. You even said yourself that Oda way later explained well the details of G2. It would also be highly highly lame if he didn't upgrade himself at this point.
He could have been talking about,
- Ally Robo
- Gear 2
- Gear 3
Gear 3 is understandable as it's based in concept on the Gomu Gomu no Balloon, but Gear 2 is waaay out there and requires scientific knowledge I do not think Luffy possess.
I don't remember the details of 5)
What's to elaborate on? Usopp gets a ten finger shigan to the chest by foot-long nails and survives. That should have pierced his heart/lung/esophagus.
and 6)
Stick a hotdog in your mouth horizontally and try to talk while holding it in.
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What about a cover-up? Of course the WG will start to hunt the StrawHats (unless something big regarding Whitebeard and Shanks happen) but I don't think the whole world will learn about StrawHat's raid on Enies Lobby. It's simply not good for the goverment.
The only real way for the world to know is the WG telling, and I don't think they would do this. The marines at the event are most likely going to be ordered not to mention this to anyone and the BusterCall crew sure is professional enough to hold the information.
They are going to get bigger bounties? Hell ya, and might even get a fake "crime" like rampaging against a city but the raid on EL will remain unknowned.
And rebuilding EL should be ok with the excuse of "extending" it and the supplies from the other islands linked with the SeaTrain.
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I was thinking, "a literary masterpiece? And I have yet to read it?!"
THEN.
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I clicked your link and saw it was a comic book. xD
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Just for the record, I've only read one series of American comic books in my life; Magic the Gathering: Ice Age. I've never touched/smelled/browsed/eaten anything else.
Massively off topic but:
Calling Watchemen merely a "comic book" is like calling any ocean a "pond"Seriously, you should check it out. It's vastly more mature deeper than pretty much anything on the market then or since.
On Topic: While not "official" by Manga standards, the anime (and even bits of some of the movies) depict the Strawhats having to stop what they're doing due to suddenly appearing Marine ships. It's not a stretch of the imagination to assume this happens on a semi-frequent basis.
More than likely, however, we'll get another Smoker-ish situation where the Marines appoint a "chase"squad to ensure the SHs don't get very far.
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I have to bring up the Jyabura thing one more time,sorry.
I don't think Oda planned to have Usopp fight a CP9 in the first place. Look, Oda could have just made four new CP9 appear at Enies Lobby instead of just Kumadori, Fukurou, and Jybura, but he didn't. I think he knew what has going to happen to Jyabura ahead to time. It's not writing yourself into a corner if you planned it.
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They are going to get bigger bounties? Hell ya, and might even get a fake "crime" like rampaging against a city but the raid on EL will remain unknowned.
How much soldiers were at enies lobbie? 10.000 i think.You can order them to keep their mouths shut as much as want, there's no way it could be covered up, the story will definitely spread ;-)
…especially since they've just learned that spandam, the man that was in charge, didn't give a shit about them^^
Edit:
Someone else proposed the WG will claim to have killed the strawhats finally via bustercall.That's more likely than them being able to cover up the whole attack and it could even be an convenient solution for the questions raised in this thread since the WG couldn't launch large scale attacks against the strawhats anymore.
But i wouldn't like that kind of deceiving as well, i want everyone to know the crew is alive and well and kicking more ass than ever^^
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Look, Oda could have just made four new CP9 appear at Enies Lobby instead of just Kumadori, Fukurou, and Jybura, but he didn't. I think he knew what has going to happen to Jyabura ahead to time. It's not writing yourself into a corner if you planned it.
Uh, there were enough CP9 to go around; Oda had Luffy get rid of Blueno right off the bat because he was "expendable". Blueno could have been an excellent fight for Sogeking.
If you're going to argue, "well what about Gear 2", Oda could have just as easily had Luffy attack someone like Baskerville.
Besides, you totally misunderstood what I was saying. Oda's "corner" was that either Sogeking or Sanji would look like a wuss at the end of this arc, not "who gets Jyabura". That fight was just the defining point of his decision to stiff Sogeking.
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Uh, there were enough CP9 to go around; Oda had Luffy get rid of Blueno right off the bat because he was "expendable". Blueno could have been an excellent fight for Sogeking.
If you're going to argue, "well what about Gear 2", Oda could have just as easily had Luffy attack someone like Baskerville.
Besides, you totally misunderstood what I was saying. Oda's "corner" was that either Sogeking or Sanji would look like a wuss at the end of this arc, not "who gets Jyabura". That fight was just the defining point of his decision to stiff Sogeking.
No, I'm saying that Oda could have made another CP9 for Usopp to fight, therefore removing this corner altogether. After all, what good were the 3 Enies Lobby CP9 for aside from fights for 3 of the SH characters (though I like there characters)? Making another CP9 would have given Usopp this fight you want, yet it didn't happen, and Oda must have known what would happen to Blueno by then.
I don't think that Oda ever planned on having Usopp fight a CP9 in the first place, so, it's not writing yourself into a corner if you planned it in advance.
Thanks to another post, I'm beginning to think that Usopp isn't meant to fight a strong opponent this arc. He left the crew because he felt useless because he was weak. Beating a CP9 would make him strong, hence proving his insecurities right, and besides Luffy didn't want him for that anyway. In this arc so far, he's remained weak while still being important to the crew.
Odds are, he'll beat a powerful "thing" this arc instead of that opponent.
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I'm talking about the fans who are bound to be just a tad more harsh on him in comparison to his (former) crewmates.
You're gonna have to help me on this one here.
No Usopp = No Robin = No point to the past two and a half years.
Because of his existence, Robin has been saved.
Usopp is the weakest member of the crew.
Usopp will probably always be the weakest member of the crew.
Usopp is better with his contraptions and with teamwork.
Usopp will never beat anyone with strength alone.
Because of these unique aspects, Usopp shines in ways no other crew member can.
Usopp saved the crew and he pobably will again.
Is anyone seriously saying they'd rather have him fight a person than to give meaning to this entire arc?
Because if that's really the case and people have lost all faith…..
Then you shoulda jumped ship a long time ago because the same exact thing happened to Sanji in Skypiea.
Usopp kicks ass.
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Maybe there will be an user with similer Rokushiki for Usopp to fight in the future. Remamber if Usopp fought Jabura then who will stop Spandam from jumping on the bridge? Oda planned to use Usopp to snipe Spandam on the bridge so that was why Usopp did not fight Jabura because that is what Oda had planned to happen.
Remamber this is his story, not ours so he makes decision whatever shoul happened in his story. Think about it, would the story suck so bad if Oda had this our way? If Oda wrote the story based on our extreme view would that make Oda a bad aurthor? I'am not saying this to put down predications or speculations, I'am saying this because that is a fact. Oda had to be careful how he plans his story, he can't put his story on an insane fanservice.
Our predications or speculations can come true, but careful not to expect it too much.
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Good point Greg, Sanji didn't get a fight in Skypiea and look what happened to him with this arc.
With all that said, I predict that Usopp will kick someones ass in the next arc instead. His version of "Sanji vs. Kuurobi."
…depending on the nature of the arc.
Plus, a lot can still happen anyway. I perosnally can't perdict this story.
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You're gonna have to help me on this one here.
No Usopp = No Robin = No point to the past two and a half years.
Because of his existence, Robin has been saved.
He took a minimal part in Robin's saving, no matter how you try to spin it he came after everyone took the keys from the CP9, which was the really tough part of the "Robin retrieval" mission, shot a bunch of insignificant small fries and delayed Robin's fate long enough for Franky to really save her, twice, because Sogeking wasn't competent enough to disable the aforementionned small fries once and for all.
Usopp is the weakest member of the crew.
That's new though. Before, you could more or less put him in the low tier of the Strawhats alongside Nami and Chopper. He all of sudden became the official victim of the Strawhat crew when they landed on Water Seven.
Usopp will probably always be the weakest member of the crew.
Thrilling.
Usopp is better with his contraptions and with teamwork.
Oh please… Not this "teamwork" nonsense again... Every characters in One Piece and shonen manga in general use team work. But contrary to Usopp, these characters aren't always the one getting helped, and can lend a hand to their companions or hold their own by themselves without having to be saved, avenged, or given speeches about life every 10 chapters. Balance is the key.
Usopp will never beat anyone with strength alone.
I don't think anybody thought he'd ever beat an opponent using strenght. But he has firearms, dials, and supposedly tricks and a strategical (sp?) mind. Don't tell me he doesn't have the potential to be a competent fighter.
Because of these unique aspects, Usopp shines in ways no other crew member can.
Getting humiliated and playing dead weight a dozen time in the course of a saga, only to have his brilliant special moment last 4 pages isn't "shining".
Usopp saved the crew and he pobably will again.
Who cares if he saved the crew? Kokoro saved the crew. Paulie saved the crew. A bunch of secondary characters saved the crew. Each and every Strawhats saved the crew. If that's the thing supposed to make him a unique and precious flower, color me ten shades of impressed.
Is anyone seriously saying they'd rather have him fight a person than to give meaning to this entire arc?
Because if that's really the case and people have lost all faith…..
Then you shoulda jumped ship a long time ago because the same exact thing happened to Sanji in Skypiea.
Now if you're comparing Sanji's actions in Skypiea to what Usopp did during the WG saga… I don't even know what to say. Sanji koed a priest before losing to Enel, nothing to be ashamed of. I won't list again what happend to Usopp during his pitiful journey from W7 to Enies Lobby, but it's nothing even remotely comparable.
Usopp kicks ass.
If by "kicks ass" you mean "is flat out pathetic", then yes, Usopp kicks prodigious amounts of ass.
There you go again, another Usopp post. My apologies.
It's them, they make me do it!!!!
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Ok, all you Usopp and anti-Usopp people, from this point on, go to this thread -> http://forums.cp9.org/showthread.php?t=8563
and argue all you Usopp can and can't do(s) all you want!
don't hijack this thread!
Now, can we get back to the freaking topic? Please?
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Well, I give up on Aldrich.
The point stands, without Usopp the crew would be dead. Sure, other people have saved their lives, but that's nothing to ignore. Plus, he's done it a few times.
Without the giants help, the SHs would be fighting marines for well…too long. They just barely reached Robin after all. Without Usopp beating those small-fry marines, all the Strawhats would have failed regardless.
Ironically, even if Usopp's played the smallest part, without him even beating the CP9 would be meaningless, because they would still lose Robin.
oh yeah...
Now if you're comparing Sanji's actions in Skypiea to what Usopp did during the WG saga… I don't even know what to say. Sanji koed a priest before losing to Enel, nothing to be ashamed of. I won't list again what happend to Usopp during his pitiful journey from W7 to Enies Lobby, but it's nothing even remotely comparable.
Please….that's just a pitiful bias. Sure, Sanji KOed a priest, but Luffy has to hold him down to do it. Really, it's more like he beat half a priest. Pathetic.
In terms of fighting, he got other preformed by Robin, Chopper, Wiper, and Zoro--twice. It's very much the same thing, regardless of this whining you keep bringing up.
Instead, Oda has Sanji save later and one-up Enel despite being incapable of fighting him. Sanji made a different despite being weak...compared to Enel. It's not 100% the same, but the parallel are obvious.
Yet, Sanji has redeemed himself for all that in this arc. I wonder what the arc after this will bring?
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Not to beat a dead-horse or anything, but I've been thinking that Oda cutting Jyabura Vs Usopp was to show that you don't have to do big things to become infamous. By allowing Sanji to recover from his failed fight against Califa, Oda gave Usopp the motivation to become larger than most everyone else. He destroyed the flag and declared war on WG, he convinced the giants to join their cause, he sniped numerous Marines and Panda himself, and indavertently released Robin from her cuffs (yes, Franky was the one to actually unlock them, and he got the keys from Nami, but without his support, she would still be useless). In my opinion that would be worse than beating Lucci and Blueno.
Now as for Usopp himself, his strenght is his intelligence and planning ability. Yes, he doesn't have brawn, but what he lacks in that, he makes up (in spades) in intelligence. Without it, he would have died against Mr. 4 and Mrs Xmas, along with Chopper. That, on top of his ability to lie, makes him VERY deadly in battle, as you never know if he's bluffing or telling the truth…
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Dammit Aldrich, you just gave a good albeit inappropriate joke idea! However, thank you! This in regards to the idea that Usopp is pathetic:
Usopp: "Hey guys, guess what?"
Sanji: "What's up, Usopp?"
Usopp: "I… I followed your advice and I made this crayon picture of you guys fighting! And I threw a rock at the Enies Lobby building!"
Sanji: "GOOD BOY! See, I told you that you could do little things that amuse us!"
Sanji pats Usopp on the head.
Usopp: "I'm a big help, huh?"
Zoro: "Fuck, just die already!"So sorry guys, I couldn't help it! I like Usopp but all the anti-Usopp remarks just inspired me to think up that crappy scenario...
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Please….that's just a pitiful bias. Sure, Sanji KOed a priest, but Luffy has to hold him down to do it. Really, it's more like he beat half a priest. Pathetic.
In terms of fighting, he got other preformed by Robin, Chopper, Wiper, and Zoro--twice. It's very much the same thing, regardless of this whining you keep bringing up.
Instead, Oda has Sanji save later and one-up Enel despite being incapable of fighting him. Sanji made a different despite being weak...compared to Enel. It's not 100% the same, but the parallel are obvious.
Yet, Sanji has redeemed himself for all that in this arc. I wonder what the arc after this will bring?
He still had a fight, first got his ass kicked, then came back and knocked the living shit out of his opponent. This is satisfying. Who cares if he had a little help from his friends? I thought teamwork was important?
Then he gets his ass beat by a God like character who'd likely fry each and every CP9 agents and probably the vast majority of the elite of the One Piece world. What shame is there to it?
You're going to tell me it's even remotely comparable to getting victimized twice by street thugs, whining over a crumbling pile of wood and leaving the crew like a sulking 8 year old brat, getting abducted twice, getting your ass kicked by a female friend, and finally getting absolutely shitcanned by an averagely powerful opponent in the grand scheme of things?
Not to mention Sanji and Usopp's roles in Skypiea were strangely similar… Only Usopp was even less impressive, even back then.
Pitiful bias heh...
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No, I'm saying that Oda could have made another CP9 for Usopp to fight, therefore removing this corner altogether. After all, what good were the 3 Enies Lobby CP9 for aside from fights for 3 of the SH characters (though I like there characters)? Making another CP9 would have given Usopp this fight you want, yet it didn't happen, and Oda must have known what would happen to Blueno by then.
Sigh…Oda did not need to make an extra CP9, he had an extra CP9 to kick around. That was Blueno.
I don't think that Oda ever planned on having Usopp fight a CP9 in the first place, so, it's not writing yourself into a corner if you planned it in advance.
Meaning he was planning Usopp's poor showing from the start, despite the whole Sogeking get-up. :(
I think that's worse, really.
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He still had a fight, first got his ass kicked, then came back and knocked the living shit out of his opponent. This is satisfying. Who cares if he had a little help from his friends? I thought teamwork was important?
Then he gets his ass beat by a God like character who'd likely fry each and every CP9 agents and probably the vast majority of the elite of the One Piece world. What shame is there to it?
You're going to tell me it's even remotely comparable to getting victimized twice by street thugs, whining over a crumbling pile of wood and leaving the crew like a sulking 8 year old brat, getting abducted twice, getting your ass kicked by a female friend, and finally getting absolutely shitcanned by an averagely powerful opponent in the grand scheme of things?
Not to mention Sanji and Usopp's roles in Skypiea were strangely similar… Only Usopp was even less impressive, even back then.
Pitiful bias heh...
Yeah, pretty much. I never brought up teamwork, but it's not as glorious when it's against a less then great opponent. Satori was equal in strength or less to the Priests.
I could do the same thing with Usopp that you did to Sanji there. He got beat by those thugs cause he didn't fight smart, like Robin trying to hand-to-hand fight, or Sanji in a slap fest. Yes, Usopp can get beat by a thug and Kung Fu Dugong, yet the Mr. 4 pair could kill those things no problem. Weird huh?
Whining piece of wood? Even Luffy wasn't willing to leave the ship at first! This was the ship that took them all the way to the Grandline, and a ship that… Luffy and Usopp have an unhealthly habit of humanizing. If Usopp was with Luffy while the carpenters made their report, then Usopp would most likely have come to a similar conclusion.
Now, 8 year old brat? Why, cause he cried after he got his ass kicked? Well, Chopper and Luffy cried too. I admit that Chopper is no surprise. I dunno, I don't hate him for it.
Now, getting abducted twice? Now, with Franky, he gave me the impression that he went along with him. I mean, I didn't see a fight or injuries. As for the CP9...they were kicking everyone's ass back then.
Getting your ass kicked by your female friend? You mean Robin? Please, Robin could kick Sanji's ass, even without her devil fruit power.
Prove me wrong, Calipha.
Also, I have nothing against Sanji, but cmon, he's so cool that he can take it.
As for getting your ass kicked by Jyabura, well…he's the third most powerful villian in the arc.
I dunno, why I'm I so indifferent to all that's happened to Usopp and you're so unforgivable? I haven't been mad at Usopp for any of his actions so far. I mean, whatever, that's how the stories going, and it's paid off.
God I'm tired...
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You make a few points about Ussop, but he was the one being built up this arc only to do nothing,which in my opinion is totally disapponting. Also this statement "Getting your ass kicked by your female friend? You mean Robin? Please, Robin could kick Sanji's ass, even without her devil fruit power." is so wrong its not even funny.
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Alright, Usopp fighting has a topic now. Let me try to get back on THIS topic…..
I say that Oda is fine. I've been expecting the WG to start breaking at the seams soon anyhow. I think a world plunged into war and chaos is right around the corner in OP.
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I'm just getting tired of all this business with the World Government. I'm hoping Oda gives them rest for a while so we can see what other dangers lurk on the Grandline.
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I'm just getting tired of all this business with the World Government. I'm hoping Oda gives them rest for a while so we can see what other dangers lurk on the Grandline.
Bounty hunters FTW.
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Dammit Aldrich, you just gave a good albeit inappropriate joke idea! However, thank you! This in regards to the idea that Usopp is pathetic:
Usopp: "Hey guys, guess what?"
Sanji: "What's up, Usopp?"
Usopp: "I… I followed your advice and I made this crayon picture of you guys fighting! And I threw a rock at the Enies Lobby building!"
Sanji: "GOOD BOY! See, I told you that you could do little things that amuse us!"
Sanji pats Usopp on the head.
Usopp: "I'm a big help, huh?"
Zoro: "Fuck, just die already!"So sorry guys, I couldn't help it! I like Usopp but all the anti-Usopp remarks just inspired me to think up that crappy scenario...
You know… It's sad, but it's exactly it. How the other crewmembers and his fans react with Usopp reminds me of a loving family praising their retarded child for every little things he does, congratulating and cuddling him when he manages to count until 100 at 12 year old while other kids of his age start learning how to resolve equations. "It's great Timmy! One little effort at the time, and one day you'll be like all the other children!"
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Nice point Octogon. It would be nice to see a surge of bounty hunters on the scene! Johnny and Yosaku could make a morally conflicted return. And yes there's still the Navy and Shichibukai. I'm also hoping that individual countries and various non-government organizations could be throw into the fray as well.
IMHO, Oda could have the Straw Hats put into another Skypia-esque situation. It would be no means be exactly like it, but in concept the Straw Hats would get involved in another non-WG and non-GL scenario. Or if it's in the Grand Line, it could be detacted from the recent political upheaval.BTW, I'm glad you saw the point Aldrich! I intended just that in hopes that maybe it summarizes the anti-Usopp sentiments more or less. I do like Usopp due to the fact that he's the nerd and underdog of the group, and I actually have hope for him. However, I do see where you're coming from Aldrich. :)
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On topic, I don't think Oda will have a lot of trouble having the crew being carefree just as before. Think of it this way. The Strawhats declared on the World Government, but it's still only the countries that are a part of the World Government. How many places they've visited so far have been part of the World Government? Alabasta, Water 7, Enies Lobby. Drum used to be, and Sakura (the new Drum) might eventually. But really that's it. It is totally possible that out of the 170+ countries that make up the WG, only 20 or so are actually in the Grand Line. Then comes the question, how many of these 20 or so are in the path of the Strawhats? So they might be able to visit 10 more islands without landing on one controlled by a World Government country. Or, they might unknowingly help someone like Vivi and not have to worry about the WG at all in that person's country.
Of course it could be the exact opposite, with only 20 or so countries spread across the Blues, and 150+ in the GL. Then the Strawhats would be screwed.
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I dunno, why I'm I so indifferent to all that's happened to Usopp and you're so unforgivable? I haven't been mad at Usopp for any of his actions so far. I mean, whatever, that's how the stories going, and it's paid off.
That's because it's the disappointed fans of usopp that argue -against- him so it's a lose-lose situation because the more you can prove usopp's worth the more they want you to keep talking.
In fact it's a personal matter that can't be settled by arguments, stop playing along.
Hijackers :getlost:
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That's because it's the disappointed fans of usopp that argue -against- him so it's a lose-lose situation because the more you can prove usopp's worth the more they want you to keep talking.
In fact it's a personal matter that can't be settled by arguments, stop playing along.
Hijackers :getlost:
Ya know? I'am very tired of these Usopp arguements. I can't wait for this arc to end and Usopp to rejoin just to shut these Usopp fans up. They are mad because they expected to much from the story and they keep flaming Oda for not letting Usopp win.
Ever since Usopp quitted the crew, people been waiting for Oda to bring him back for 2 and half years and they keep saying "Wow! Usopp should beat Kaku to regrain his position! Oh no! He's going to fight Jabura! Well then he should beat Jabura to regrain his crew seat! Oh no! Sanji took over! Oda you old scambag!"
For christ's sake some Usopp fans; leave Oda alone, he will rarly meet your expection but you can't let him become a slave to rabid fanbase. Please let Oda do his work, trust me; Usopp WILL I promise he WILL rejoin the crew. Please some Usopp fans, stop stressing Oda or he'll stop writing the manga.
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I'm not saying regain his crew; I'm saying regain his self confidence. Forget rejoining the crew, that's a given. My expectation was for Usopp to prove himself competent in a way he has not done before, which he still has not done. As for meeting my expectations, Oda usually SUPRASSES my expectations, which is why this recent crap is such a letdown.
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hey, can't you all freaking read? I already open a freaking for you all to stop hijacking the topic…...
can we now GET back to the topic NOW?
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Yikes, sorry about that kljs!
On topic: they could still be care-free. As it was pointed out earlier in this thread, and I agree, the World Government will more than likely cover this up. Yes they'll have a vendetta against the Straw Hats, but the whole story doesn't have to focus solely on that. For all we know, the World Government will have to do some cleaning up along with the covering up of Enies Lobby. On top of that, they'll have to plan on how they will deal with the Straw Hats. That alone should buy the Straw Hats some time and they can have until the World Government gets it shit together and starts fighting back.