Yeah, Big Mom so obviously is the weakest Yonko. We didn't even see her fight at all, but as we all know soul manipulation is such a weak and useless power. Besides, she's a woman and the only thing she can do is giving babies.
Chapter 835: The Nation of Souls
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big mom : take all their lifespan
admirals : diesthere obviously a way to prevent her from taking your soul but the point is oda can make her the stongest yonkou if he wants to.
he can even make moria the strongest if he wants. just take someone's shadow in the middle of the day and they die instantly.
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big mom : take all their lifespan
admirals : diesthere obviously a way to prevent her from taking your soul but the point is oda can make her the stongest yonkou if he wants to.
he can even make moria the strongest if he wants. just take someone's shadow in the middle of the day and they die instantly.
Right now It seems that she can only take souls from scared people or volunteers but we all know that Oda will show us different ways to use her power
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Right now It seems that she can only take souls from scared people or volunteers but we all know that Oda will show us different ways to use her power
Well honestly she wouldnt be where she would be if she ran into people that werent scared of her and couldnt do anything, shes kind of big I bet she can throw her weight around so to speak
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Don't underestimate Big Mom.
This quote + your avatar. Lol. Careful dude, you just Bege-ing to get shot.
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Speaking of Big Mom's individual power, I'd say she's probably the weakest yonkou (not but much, I'd guess). She is probably able to compete with the other emperors because her crew is above the others in caliber, if only by a little bit. If I were to guess how strong each is compared to each other currently, I'd guess
Kaidou>Shanks=Blackbeard>Big Mom
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I've done some computations and came to the conclusion that Kaidou is exactly 451 times stronger than Big Mom.
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This one is highly interesting. The concept of Life or Leave and paying their soul via Big Mom having the soul soul fruit…very interesting. I also see how Nami's perceived weak combat power is being brought to the fore front, and Chopper was snatched. Definitely good opportunities for both of them to shine more in the future of this arc.
edit: I'm also glad they revealed the twist about Lola, though we had called it even way back when we first met her. (that her mom would be a Yonko.) and throughout this arc it was hinted so heavily, and her sister looks alot like her to the point I thought she genuinely was Lola at first. At least they finally got to it directly though. I wonder what Nami will say about that, and how it will come into play.
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Bartholemew:
I've done some computations and came to the conclusion that Kaidou is exactly 451 times stronger than Big Mom.
How exactly do you figure that?
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Speaking of Big Mom's individual power, I'd say she's probably the weakest yonkou (not but much, I'd guess). She is probably able to compete with the other emperors because her crew is above the others in caliber, if only by a little bit. If I were to guess how strong each is compared to each other currently, I'd guess
Kaidou>Shanks=Blackbeard>Big Mom
I'd argue that Shanks is the strongest. BlackBeard is hard to even place. Then, I'd agree that Kaido is stronger than Big Mom. That's all I can say, but we are all merely speculating.
So it'd go like this-
Shanks>Kaido>Big Mom
with Blackbeard being the rogue element that I cannot say where he goes.
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How much you wanna bet if someone said Leave, they would swipe your entire soul away?
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I've done some more computations and can definitely say that Shanks is exactly 483 times stronger than Big Mom.
So yes, Shanks>Kaido>Big Mom is set in stone.
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@The:
How much you wanna bet if someone said Leave, they would swipe your entire soul away?
They just get kicked out of Totland, I guess.
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@Bartholemew:
I've done some more computations and can definitely say that Shanks is exactly 483 times stronger than Big Mom.
So yes, Shanks>Kaido>Big Mom is set in stone.
Oh where would we be without your computations! Can you calculate how many Cavendishes does Luffy need to become stronger in order to rival Kaido?
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Oh where would we be without your computations! Can you calculate how many Cavendishes does Luffy need to become stronger in order to rival Kaido?
Yes, I can. 763.
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Well, Kaidou does have the '' world's strongest creature title'', while BM doesn't. Kaidou seems more special because of his physical power, BM seems so far focused on her fruit powers that allows her to steal your years… and could control large army of objects that get the souls.
So while both can be equally dangerous, they are not in the same way...
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So, BM is one of those who could defeat anyone with one shot! I found it strange before why there's non of those guys who have reached this level. With a high skills level she could be the most dangers Yonko and one of those who has ability to kill Kaido since it doesn't seems the physical attacks could do any damage to him
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
By the way is there a chapter next week? :ninja:
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So, BM is one of those who could defeat anyone with one shot! I found it strange before why there's non of those guys who have reached this level. With a high skills level she could be the most dangers Yonko and one of those who has ability to kill Kaido since it doesn't seems the physical attacks could do any damage to him
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
By the way is there a chapter next week? :ninja:
Her power to take life probably wouldn't affect Kaido. Saying that, we really haven't seen much from her powers so in a fight i'm sure she has a bunch of offensive moves that do different things to hurt those that are not afraid.
But this discussion is pretty pointless because Luffy is still way weaker than Big Mom and none of the emperors will ever go against each other anyway except for BB and Shanks.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@The:
I wonder, when Luffy will eventually knock the lights outta BM, will the soul fragments that she took from the people in Totland go back to their original owners? I just thought about this since her powers are parallel to Moria's and when he got KO'ed the shadows he took went back to their owners.
Luffy is nothing but fodder against BM. He isn't going to knock her out.
Big Mom obviously is the weakest yonko. Also to me it's clear that she doesn't stand a chance against any admiral. Her fruit just doesn't suit for a combat.
You have no proof of this. The manga itself is telling us she's on an entire level from everyone introduced so far except WB and Kaido yet you somehow come up with this nonsense.
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@The:
There's no chapter next week.
Well, thanks. At least I won't except something :sad:
@The:
Her power to take life probably wouldn't affect Kaido. Saying that, we really haven't seen much from her powers so in a fight i'm sure she has a bunch of offensive moves that do different things to hurt those that are not afraid.
But this discussion is pretty pointless because Luffy is still way weaker than Big Mom and none of the emperors will ever go against each other anyway except for BB and Shanks.
Oh.. so it affects only on those who are afraid of her just like Boa, then yeah doesn't seems she could defeat Kaido with it. That's something I missed, well she's gonna be overpower if isn't just affect with some circumstances. In that case she could use her ability in fight if she's powerful enough to make her antagonist to become afraid of her during the fight so she could take that chance
I dunno.. but it doesn't feel there's anyway for the crew to get out of this alive along side with Sanji and Jinbe except if they "somehow" make an alliance with BM and of course Lola Vivre Card is gonna be the key for this alliance.. or maybe by some comedy way BM fall in love with Luffy
Luffy isn't even with all the members of his crew and doesn't seems he's gonna find some allies like Dressrosa.. besides he's already goes deeper in her territory. Doesn't seems there's any way for them to get out of this alive except for alliance
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I'd argue that Shanks is the strongest. BlackBeard is hard to even place. Then, I'd agree that Kaido is stronger than Big Mom. That's all I can say, but we are all merely speculating.
So it'd go like this-
Shanks>Kaido>Big Mom
with Blackbeard being the rogue element that I cannot say where he goes.
There is absolutely nothing to suggest Shanks being the strongest: in 795, the narrator (Oda ffs) stated that Kaidou is the world's strongest creature and it would be best to bet for Kaidou victory in a one on one fight. This is not to say he couldn't lose to Shanks, or Big Mom, or even Sugar (bullshit power) for that matter, but the narrator made it pretty clear Kaidou will end up on top most of the time. The thing is, Shanks has no bullshit powers that would secure him a victory against Kaidou, and would have to brute force a victory. I'm sure Shanks is strong, but, as far as we know, Kaidou, like Shanks, is a brute fighter. If the Word of God declares Kaidou the strongest one-on-one fighter, in a fight that centers around his brute fighting style, he would likely win.
Maybe Shanks with two arms would be definitively stronger (in other words, beat Kaidou the majority of the time), but that's a hypothetical. In the story that's being followed, Kaidou has been defined as the World's Strongest, and I don't think you should allow what I presume to be your Shanks fanboyism to blind you from that fact.
In regards to Blackbeard, I think I agree with you. He is an unknown number, and must be getting stronger, so pegging him down is not a great idea. Currently, he could be the strongest of the emperors or even the weakest. But meh, only time will tell.
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@The:
You have no proof of this. The manga itself is telling us she's on an entire level from everyone introduced so far except WB and Kaido yet you somehow come up with this nonsense.
You don't have any proof either. She is on a different lvl because of crew. In a duel she is nothing against other yonkos or admirals. They won't be feared of her devil fruit so it's useless…
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You don't have any proof either. She is on a different lvl because of crew. In a duel she is nothing against other yonkos or admirals. They won't be feared of her devil fruit so it's useless…
Don't underestimate Mama.
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Don't underestimate Mama.
I think she is stronger than any shichibukai but weaker than admirals or other yonkos. I wouldn't call it "underestimating".
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I think she is stronger than any shichibukai but weaker than admirals or other yonkos. I wouldn't call it "underestimating".
No….... I literally think she is on another level. I bet she is stronger than most admirals, and maybe Blackbeard. I don't quite get why you find her so lacking.....
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If big mom didnt have anything besides her df, she never would have been a yonko.
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No….... I literally think she is on another level. I bet she is stronger than most admirals, and maybe Blackbeard. I don't quite get why you find her so lacking.....
Totally disagree with this. Admirals are the greatest power of the marine. Yonko are the greatest power of the pirates. So they should be on the same level since they are enemies. Otherwise marines would have been destroyed.
Mama literally is the weakest yonko. There is no way she can win BB with two most powerful devil fruits. NO WAY ! -
@Long:
If big mom didnt have anything besides her df, she never would have been a yonko.
Oh of course, but Blackbeard would be without his DF Pirateking….
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Oh of course, but Blackbeard would be without his DF Pirateking….
True but I also believe that big mom's power is more useful and versatile than just knocking out fodder with her ability as that wouldnt help her vs anyone that was as tough as a warlord or above
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This quote + your avatar. Lol. Careful dude, you just Bege-ing to get shot.
LoL truly it wasn't even on purpose.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I don't think that Passiopi understood your post Long John. He thinks you meant that Big Mom is nothing without her devil fruit. Or did he ?
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Review for chapter 835:
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@Long:
If big mom didnt have anything besides her df, she never would have been a yonko.
yeah, because we know so much about her and what she is or isn't capable of…
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Totally disagree with this. Admirals are the greatest power of the marine. Yonko are the greatest power of the pirates. So they should be on the same level since they are enemies. Otherwise marines would have been destroyed.
That makes zero sense. There are three admirals (plus a fleet admiral); if one admiral was as strong as one of the Yonko, then the Marines should have been able to take down the Yonko. But if one of the Yonko is stronger than an admiral, it's still risky to take on the WG, and if they did, they'd have to worry about being attacked by another of the Yonko.
Mama literally is the weakest yonko.
That's quite the baseless assumption you're making.
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It's totally safe to say that Mama is the weakest Yonko by a large margin. It's also safe to say that'll Star Wars: Episode IX totally will blow away Fantastic Beasts and where to find them 3.
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That makes zero sense. There are three admirals (plus a fleet admiral); if one admiral was as strong as one of the Yonko, then the Marines should have been able to take down the Yonko. But if one of the Yonko is stronger than an admiral, it's still risky to take on the WG, and if they did, they'd have to worry about being attacked by another of the Yonko.
That's quite the baseless assumption you're making.
I saw everything during the marineford war. The strongest yonko couldn't handle with Kizaru or Aokiji. He could touch Akainu only from behind. This all thing made it perfectly clear that they are on the same level. But the problem is that marines have only 4 admirals. Others are trash. Vice-admirals (except Garp) are weak, Bartolomeo proved it. Yonko has very powerful fleet. His top commanders are also monsters. If marine attacks them, they can join forces in front of danger. 4 admirals+weak vice admirals wouldn't stand a chance against 4 yonko + guys like Marco, Jack or Beckman. That's why there are shichibukais. It's called balance.
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Remember when people thought that all Moria could do is steal shadows? Good times.
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For Christ's sake, we haven't even see Big Mon fight yet, you yutzes.
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I saw everything during the marineford war. The strongest yonko couldn't handle with Kizaru or Aokiji.
You mean, the battle where it was made expressly clear that Whitebeard had been greatly weakened by his illness, and then was injured (impaled, in fact) by one of his own allies before he even started fighting?
And "couldn't handle with Kizaru or Aokiji"… what? The fact that other people intervened doesn't mean he couldn't deal with them; it meant dealing with them was a distraction - remember, he wasn't there just to fight; he was there to rescue Ace. Everything else was secondary.
Others are trash. Vice-admirals (except Garp) are weak, Bartolomeo proved it.
He proved that one Vice-Admiral can lose to a hax devil fruit power he doesn't know about in an enclosed space. That doesn't imply "weak" in any way, shape, or form - hell, there's no reason to believe Jack would have been able to do any better in that fight.
If marine attacks them, they can join forces in front of danger.
If they would all join forces… but they wouldn't, because they hate each other as much as they hate the Marines. They'd go after the weakened remnants after the battle, or take advantage of the distraction on both sides. Even if two of them might team up, there's no way all four would.
That's why there are shichibukais. It's called balance.
The balance exists because the Yonko are each strong enough to pose a hazard to the WG, but aren't willing to work together. Remember that the Marines + Shichibukai won a battle with a very old and sick member of the Yonko only after preparing an ambush at their massively-fortified HQ, and using a prisoner to prevent Whitebeard from just sinking the island outright. Had they met in open battle under virtually any other circumstances, they might not have won at all. They almost certainly couldn't take on two at once - remember how the war stopped when Shanks showed up? Even "no restraint" Akainu was like "I'm done" at that point.
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You mean, the battle where it was made expressly clear that Whitebeard had been greatly weakened by his illness, and then was injured (impaled, in fact) by one of his own allies before he even started fighting?
And "couldn't handle with Kizaru or Aokiji"… what? The fact that other people intervened doesn't mean he couldn't deal with them; it meant dealing with them was a distraction - remember, he wasn't there just to fight; he was there to rescue Ace. Everything else was secondary.
He proved that one Vice-Admiral can lose to a hax devil fruit power he doesn't know about in an enclosed space. That doesn't imply "weak" in any way, shape, or form - hell, there's no reason to believe Jack would have been able to do any better in that fight.
If they would all join forces… but they wouldn't, because they hate each other as much as they hate the Marines. They'd go after the weakened remnants after the battle, or take advantage of the distraction on both sides. Even if two of them might team up, there's no way all four would.
The balance exists because the Yonko are each strong enough to pose a hazard to the WG, but aren't willing to work together. Remember that the Marines + Shichibukai won a battle with a very old and sick member of the Yonko only after preparing an ambush at their massively-fortified HQ, and using a prisoner to prevent Whitebeard from just sinking the island outright. Had they met in open battle under virtually any other circumstances, they might not have won at all. They almost certainly couldn't take on two at once - remember how the war stopped when Shanks showed up? Even "no restraint" Akainu was like "I'm done" at that point.
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So what ? He was titled "the strongest" by author, not me. And still he was on par with admirals.
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Just looke at the vice-admirals : Vergo was one-shotted by Law, Smoker was one-shotted by Doflamingo, Maynard was one-shotted by Bartolomeo, Bastille was one-shotted by Sabo. By guys who are not above than Marco or Jozu. And you telling me they are not weak ? Ha-ha, very funny. Plus yonko has 2 or 3 monsters on his team that can destroy all marine forces (except admirals ofc).
One bln worh Jack (Kaido's top fighter) might lose to Bartolomeo ? I shan't even comment this… -
Who told you they wouldn't ? Even 2 yonko can beat marine because marines have no one except 4 admirals and Garp. 2 Yonko would have guys like Marco, Jack or even Rayleigh who are also can fight on par with the strongest people.
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Remember that they won it EASILY. And Mihawk, Doflamingo, Garp, Sengoku didn't even fight. Plus WB had on his side Jinbe, Crocodile, Ivankov. They are pretty strong you know.
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- So what ? He was titled "the strongest" by author, not me.
Based on his history and reputation.
Just looke at the vice-admirals : Vergo was one-shotted by Law
Thanks to being overconfident when facing a hax devil fruit power. And only after fighting (and being injured by) Sanji, Smoker, and Law.
Smoker was one-shotted by Doflamingo
We didn't see him get one-shotted. We only saw one attack before the scene cut away. And Smoker was already injured from previous fights anyhow.
Maynard was one-shotted by Bartolomeo
We don't actually know anything about what happened in that fight, but based on how Bartolomeo's powers work, we have a pretty good indication that it was mostly about Maynard injuring himself, and not about Bartolomeo "oneshotting" him.
Bastille was one-shotted by Sabo.
Oh no, a Vice Admiral was one-shotted by the #2 member of the Revolutionaries, who was able to hang with people like Jesus Burgess before he got the mera mera no mi? How weak of him! Wait, no, that doesn't indicate weakness in the slightest.
And you telling me they are not weak?
Yeah, I am. Plus, you might not have noticed, but the WG has, like, a couple dozen Vice Admirals, many of whom have likely been Vice Admirals longer than Maynard or Smoker.
Plus yonko has 2 or 3 monsters on his team that can destroy all marine forces (except admirals ofc).
Woo, more baseless assumptions!
One bln worh Jack (Kaido's top fighter) might lose to Bartolomeo ? I shan't even comment this…
Because you don't have a good response. Yes, I know.
- Who told you they wouldn't ?
It's shown throughout their entire portrayals. If it was that easy to make them work together, they wouldn't be Yonko.
Remember that they won it EASILY.
Not really. And that's despite having just about every concievable advantage, including: a hostage, fortifications, home ground, overwhelming numerical superiority, a weakened foe, secret weapons…
And Mihawk, Doflamingo, Garp, Sengoku didn't even fight.
We didn't see everything that happened at Marineford, but: Mihawk fought Vista, Doflamingo went after Oars Jr., and Garp attacked Marco.
It's just your assumption that they were just sitting on their asses the whole time.
Plus WB had on his side Jinbe, Crocodile, Ivankov. They are pretty strong you know.
Really? None of them could stand up to an admiral for more than a couple seconds, so I'd think you'd call them worthless and weak like you suggested the Vice Admirals are.
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I saw everything during the marineford war. The strongest yonko couldn't handle with Kizaru or Aokiji. He could touch Akainu only from behind. This all thing made it perfectly clear that they are on the same level. But the problem is that marines have only 4 admirals. Others are trash. Vice-admirals (except Garp) are weak, Bartolomeo proved it. Yonko has very powerful fleet. His top commanders are also monsters. If marine attacks them, they can join forces in front of danger. 4 admirals+weak vice admirals wouldn't stand a chance against 4 yonko + guys like Marco, Jack or Beckman. That's why there are shichibukais. It's called balance.
Wow, you're even really bad at discussing the one thing you're interested in.
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@Dahaka.:
and the revealing of Brulle fruit and how it works
and the revealing of big guy's identity
and the introduction of a new BM pirate
and the flashback to what happened during the skirmish with Bruleeyeah, nothing at all
That's correct.
All that done with supersaturation didn't move us along.@Monkey:
There is absolutely nothing you find interesting that isn't related to punching.
We just seen some lame punching.
@Buggy:
Umm Lola's father reveal & confirmation being BM's daughter. Carrot fighting, Nami using some melee moves.
We didn't need a flashback or huge wasted spreads to see that.
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That's correct.
All that done with supersaturation didn't move us along.We just seen some lame punching.
Unnecessary, since they don't change anything.
"It is a plot advancement, but it is not the one I wanted. Boohooo!"
-Screwtape 2016. -
@Bartholemew:
Yeah, Big Mom so obviously is the weakest Yonko. We didn't even see her fight at all, but as we all know soul manipulation is such a weak and useless power. Besides, she's a woman and the only thing she can do is giving babies.
Her power to give babies is unparalleled in the humanoid world. Her birth canal is a superhighway.
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Lolololol first Judge, now Big Mom is weak.
It's reasonable to say that the Yonko themselves are not completely equal in their own strength. Their crews and overall influence also work wonders, especially with Kaido's Underworld business and Big Mom's political alliances.
But we have literally never seen Big Mom's full strength on display, and we have no way to compare it to that of the other Yonko. We haven't even seen any of the current Yonko engage in an actual battle. Let's work with what we know. The Gorosei stated before the timeskip that Big Mom was one of the few people that could take down Blackbeard, the guy who had just survived a fight with Whitebeard, got two Devil Fruits, easily captured a Supernova, and swathed a path of destruction during the Battle of Marineford. Pekoms and Tamago are terribly frightened of her, and so is Fishman Island. Fishmen are strong, but Big Mom is powerful enough that the mere mention of her name brings forth fear of destruction. Let us also not forget that Pekoms said this about Big Mom:
@Pekoms:
A threat…a demand...when issued by one with absolute, overwhelming power becomes simply inevitable fate...after all, who could possibly oppose it? That is the existence known as the Yonko! And this is what it means to be driven to your very wit's end...!
Pekoms laughed uncontrollably at the mere notion of Luffy challenging Big Mom. Luffy, who had just defeated the very powerful Doflamingo. We have only seen a handful of her crew, and the Straw Hats are already overwhelmed. Whatever happens in this arc, Big Mom is not getting taken down without some serious powerups.
All we know so far is that Big Mom is one of the four most powerful pirates in the world, and everyone is afraid of her, and she can do anything she likes, with nothing that's been shown contradicting it. You absolutely cannot say that she is weaker than any of the Yonko when we have yet to fully see the power of any of them! The most we can ascertain is that she is on an equal platform with them, because you don't just become a Yonko by declaring you are or something. Blackbeard wasn't considered one until he defeated the remaining Whitebeard Pirates, who were extremely strong even without their captain.
And even if she's weaker than the other Yonko one-on-one, her strength also comes from her crew. Luffy would not have made it this far alone; is he weak? Kaido also values strength in numbers, given his obsession over his Gifters. The Game of the New World is not simply decided by the queen, but by all the other pieces on the board as well.
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At least the power level discussion is on Yonko level now :ninja:
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All this complicated talk about power levels gives me a migraine.
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If anyone thinks Big Mom is weak… who knows, maybe she is? But CP9's leader was too, and CP9 still put up a darn good fight. Nothing else worth saying about it until we see what happens in the manga.