euron not having a mystical element,
This is probably for the best, because if we got full "blue lips, valyrian armor, straps brother and concubine to a ship" Euron there'd be rehashing of every complaint about Ramsay being cartoonishly evil.
euron not having a mystical element,
This is probably for the best, because if we got full "blue lips, valyrian armor, straps brother and concubine to a ship" Euron there'd be rehashing of every complaint about Ramsay being cartoonishly evil.
Euron seems to do things more with a purpose than Ramsay even being in the same side of disturbingly evil.
Ramsay being cartoonishly evil was fine. The problem was giving him way too much screen time in season 5. Fortunately season 6 rectified this and pretty much kept him saved for strictly plot purposes rather than giving us a weekly doses of "Ramses Torture Dungeon" for 5-8 minutes.
@Monkey:
Stuff about Sansa being dumb
The possibility that Littlefinger wouldn't show up did come to mind, but not even saying that she could bring help in the first place was what got me mad at first. Then lecturing Jon about how short handed he was just made me want to give her a good bitch slap even more. While Jon was wrong about letting his emotions get the best of him, Stupid Sansa did exactly just that. Like just a episode ago (or two), by refusing Littlefingers help just because…
i am realy bothered by jon being the best swordsman apperently. with the nights whatch he was above the rest of his year because he was the only with actual military training. he never had to fight real soldiers. he might be a prodegy but than it should have been pointed out way more early in the story. that he survived the fight is oke, but that ramsey didnt contest a sword fight with a very tired jon was completely wierd. even if jon was the best, ramsey proved that he knows how to hold a sword and actualy killed with it.
You believe that the series has been consistently good for each season?
Never said anything even remotely suggesting that. Hell I'd even agree that Season 5 was as a whole the weakest season (well season 1 was kind of weak in some regards, but forgivable ones). But "absolutely terrible"?? lolll come on.
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Starks taking back Winterfell is supposed feel like big and epic moment but it felt just hollow. Had to laugh at Jon looking sad at Rickon and Wun Wun dead bodies when there a Red Woman who can revive the dead.
Its been established the revival thing is…
1. Not her choice. She doesn't have the power, it comes through her from the god when the god wants it too.
2. That it isn't a happy flawless thing. It has issues that have been hinted at and not fully explored.
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That's bullshit and you know it. It was obviously magic that revived Jon not some mystical almighty god.
Magic she channels from some source elsewhere beyond her.
Its obviously not bullshit when she's spent the entire season feeling depressed and rejected by whatever source allows her to channel that power.
If it was all hers all the time then nothing makes sense about anything she's said or done this entire season. Or even the end of the last one.
Maybe it isn't actually a god, or not as she understands it to be anyway. But it is unquestionably something she channels, not something she produces herself.
If you don't know what I mean when I'm saying "channeling", I mean she's a medium between some other power and the world around her.
This is actually a pretty basic theological concept!
You're thinking wizards, but try instead to think of Abrahamic religious miracles. Jewish, Muslim or Christian, in all of them the stories of miracles are of people causing amazing things to happened because their god is using his power through them.
Even the silly speaking in tongues crap is the same idea.
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We don't Actualy know for sure if there is a god or just magic. It's supposed to be ambiguous. Considering the views of the author is a lot more likely to be magic.
I have no doubt its not exactly as she thinks it is. But what exactly did Martin say?
Its more likely that its bound to the believes from the caster, she doesn't see the possibility nor the importance to revive wun wun nor rickon.
So…its Haki lol?
In all seriousness that is potentially interesting. And even makes it kind of interesting that she was starting to doubt Stannis even if she wasn't fully aware of it.
And euron could stop being the worst new character sinse the sand snakes.
That's not quite fair. Euron's only had 2-3 scenes and none of them were as offensively bad as the sand snakes. Really, he had a amusingly sinister cliche one and two boring ones. Worth reserving judgement, at least.
Speaking of cartoonishly evil Ramsey I have to wonder how many of the Bolton soldiers looked around at the beginning of the battle at the burning flayed men on crosses, the flayed man banner, their leader decapitating dogs, their leader firing arrows at an unarmed child whose running away and thought to themselves "Are we the baddies"
It made me think of this:
Anyway I'm looking forward to next week's King's landing story reaching its climax and to Jon and the others having a go at Sansa for hiding her secret army from them and giving up on Ricken's life.
Jon explaining a pincer attack to Tormund was an 11/10 scene
While I agree that Ramsay was a little much himself. I mean…the Nazis...were actually dudes putting skulls on their uniforms and shit.
And in not even all that olden times folks gruesomely displaying bodies of enemies and criminals was super normal.
Putting heads on pikes at city entrances, giblet cages, and purposely super macabre public execution methods.
In fact even I'm surprised to learn in just gathering the links that England's last official drawing and quartering of a criminal was in 1781, only six years after the American declaration of independence.
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The possibility that Littlefinger wouldn't show up did come to mind, but not even saying that she could bring help in the first place was what got me mad at first. Then lecturing Jon about how short handed he was just made me want to give her a good bitch slap even more. While Jon was wrong about letting his emotions get the best of him, Stupid Sansa did exactly just that. Like just a episode ago (or two), by refusing Littlefingers help just because…
Cool post dude!
Stupid bitch cunt Sansa getting emotional and doing a dumb!
Jon made a mistake sadly, understandably.
@Monkey:
Cool post dude!
Stupid bitch cunt Sansa getting emotional and doing a dumb!
Jon made a mistake sadly, understandably.
Hah… Obviously you'd fixate on that part. Welp, Sansa's being the only Stark I outright dislike ever since the beginning, so there's also that. And it's like you didn't even read past the slapping part, she clearly called out Jon for something she'd just done, so yeah, that gets me mad.
Sansa is the best Stark probably.
Just watched the scene where the two parties meet and noticed that Sansa had already left when Ramsay mentioned his hungry dogs.
I call shenanigans!
Sansa is just a terrible, unlikable character. I mean she was intentionally snotty and useless at the start, but she just doesn't grow or go anywhere. Sure she's hardened now or whatever and angry as hell, but in the end she's just as useless and just comes off as throwing tantrums. This coming from a guy who defended everything Ramsay did to her in the hopes that it would actually give her some character development, but nope. I saw a tiny glimmer of hope when she told Littlefinger to screw off, but once again back at square one. She's like the Usopp of this series. She's useless as fuck and despite the show building her up on a few occasions she goes right back to being useless really fast.
She literally saved the day last episode. She told Jon, "Don't fall for Ramsay's tricks!" And he proceeded to fall for his tricks. She told him, "We don't have enough troops for this fight." And she was right.
In the first season, I totally understood hatred towards Sansa, because she WAS a snooty bitch. But at the same time, she was a preteen. Then life proceeded to shit on her endlessly, and she couldn't do anything about it. She couldn't kill Joffrey, because so much worse would come to her. She couldn't kill Ramsay, because Ramsay would forever see it coming. For the longest time, the only person she could rely on was a borderline pedophiliac spy who's characterization is all over the place.
I understand that running back to Little Finger seems like her regressing, but do you honestly believe she still trusts him? If you had a choice between allowing Ramsay to kill your two brother or briefly sucking up to the creep job who wants to fuck you because you look like your mother… YOU FUCKING SUCK UP TO THAT GUY!
I do not see Sansa in the wrong here. She was not useless. It's so damn infuriating. Look at Theon!
Theon:
-Did something majorly assholic.
-Proceeded to get tortured by Ramsay toward the point of a mental breakdown.
-Doesn't do anything until Sansa (SANSA!!!) slaps him out of it.
-Is now barely recovering behind the skirt of his sister.
Sansa:
-Did something majorly assholic.
-Proceeded to be tormented by Joffrey and Ramsay toward the point that she SHOULD have had a mental breakdown.
-Still finds the strength to slap both Theon AND Jon Snow from their depressed slump to actually do something about what's happening.
-Is currently standing beside Jon with an army to reclaim the North and requesting the aid of another man who mentally tormented her for the sake the North even if it means Little Finger might try something on her.
But Sansa is the useless one. Sansa doesn't get shit done. And Theon is fine. Poor little Theon. He had his dick chopped off and suddenly he's exempt from all ridicule. Nevermind that he betrayed the only people who considered him family and attempted to kill what were basically his two child brothers (instead causing the death of two OTHER innocent children). But Theon is forgiven.
The worst thing Sansa did was suck up to Joffrey before she could know how horrible he is. I like Sansa. I like Theon. But that's bullshit.
All Starks are good, except for Rickon who only exists because Martin needs a legitimate male heir to Winterfell who isn't a tree or dead.
Hah… Obviously you'd fixate on that part. Welp, Sansa's being the only Stark I outright dislike ever since the beginning, so there's also that. And it's like you didn't even read past the slapping part, she clearly called out Jon for something she'd just done, so yeah, that gets me mad.
If you take a shit in the middle of a room while giving a speech, don't be surprised when people fixate on the poop.
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Sansa is just a terrible, unlikable character. I mean she was intentionally snotty and useless at the start, but she just doesn't grow or go anywhere. Sure she's hardened now or whatever and angry as hell, but in the end she's just as useless and just comes off as throwing tantrums. This coming from a guy who defended everything Ramsay did to her in the hopes that it would actually give her some character development, but nope. I saw a tiny glimmer of hope when she told Littlefinger to screw off, but once again back at square one. She's like the Usopp of this series. She's useless as fuck and despite the show building her up on a few occasions she goes right back to being useless really fast.
Useless advice that should have been followed, and useless hail mary favor pulling that won the battle.
You are not even arguing back.
I think people should be more open to criticsm as as well as the things that show is doing well and not bad. The whole point of a forum is to consider the other side, so everyone needs to chill about that. The whole sansa thing can be explained by the fact that sansa knew Jon would fall for his traps and would have likely created a blunder with the vale too, so instead sansa opted for the vale to come in last minute insuring a victory. This was like foreshadows 11111111111 episodes go when Littlefinger had a convo with cersei about letting them battle each other and swoop in the last minute. Nothing should surprise anyone here. Also, if sansa did tell that they should wait for the vale then maybe Ramsay seeing that they have a sizable force might have retreated back at winterfell and wait out a siege. Whatever the case sansa played it well. The entire battle was well done and overall it an enjoyable episode.
Criticism of the show: Fire looked naff and fake. It was so jarring to see. How did Dany get control of her dragons all of the sudden? People say that it's because tyrion released their chains? How? what does have anything to do with her? Why did Ramsay shoot the Giant instead of jon snow? The show has kind of gotten into like gratatious violence porn and pandering to the shows fans. IT also has become way too cheese for my liking with sansa smiling after ramsay gets eaten….whats up with that? I don't think the show will ever gets edge back after this season has being overly cheese and contrived.
And tyrions arc has been mostly boring and kind of annoying to watch. Maybe it would do more to point that hey being a leader isn't easy and he made a mistake. it seemed like they completely rushed and kind of threw away his arc. It's nowhere near as bad as Arya's arc. That entire arya arc could have been finished in like 2 episodes max instead of 2 seasons. I don't know how the show creators managed to make a super elite stealthy assassin organization seem boring as hell. But hey, they did it! They should have had her boring, repetetive training sessions off-screen or work around something more creative. But i never thought the super secret cult/organization would be this meh"
And final criticsm is that the season has had way too much of those "someone comes in last minute" to save the day. That would probably embarrass lots of directors. We are not certain if this is grrms idea cuz he hasn't written the book yet, but damn.
She literally saved the day last episode. She told Jon, "Don't fall for Ramsay's tricks!" And he proceeded to fall for his tricks. She told him, "We don't have enough troops for this fight." And she was right.
How does that constitute saving the day? It's pretty much stating the obvious as Jon said. She had no concrete insight. Not that it even matters because it's not like Ramsay did something secretly devious. Jon fell for his open, obvious bullshit in the most pathetic way (that is on Jon). And it's Sansa's fault they marched on Winterfell with such a shortage to begin with! Everyone kept telling HER they didn't have the numbers, she was the one convinced of the North's loyalty and numbers (wrong), and she literally told Jon she was going to go off to be an idiot whether he backed her or not.
In the first season, I totally understood hatred towards Sansa, because she WAS a snooty bitch. But at the same time, she was a preteen. Then life proceeded to shit on her endlessly, and she couldn't do anything about it. She couldn't kill Joffrey, because so much worse would come to her. She couldn't kill Ramsay, because Ramsay would forever see it coming. For the longest time, the only person she could rely on was a borderline pedophiliac spy who's characterization is all over the place.
Like I said, she was supposed to be unlikable at the start, and I'm sure many people saw what happened with Joffrey as some sort of karma. The problem is she apparently didn't learn much from that. I'm not sure it even humbled her. And I really DIDN'T see any character development even after Joffrey mk. 2, other than being pissed at Littlefinger for arranging that (and she was still naïve enough at the time to think she was doing something good and adult).
And yes refusing help was pretty stupid, from anyone really, until the last desperate moment where she asks Theon. And I'm not going to credit her being so broken and pleading – after Theon was forced to see all the horrible things happened on top of his already-massive guilt -- as being useful or getting anything done. Which by the way, by all rights she should have been recaptured. It was an awful escape; she had to be swooped in and rescued by Deus ex machina again (sure tell me some story about how Brienne was just watching the entire time and decided to show up the second she was going to be taken).
I understand that running back to Little Finger seems like her regressing, but do you honestly believe she still trusts him? If you had a choice between allowing Ramsay to kill your two brother or briefly sucking up to the creep job who wants to fuck you because you look like your mother… YOU FUCKING SUCK UP TO THAT GUY!
I meant back to square one in terms of her character development. I don't blame her for realizing she picked the worst moment to tell him to fuck off and swallowing her pride to ask for help. But you know what is idiotic beyond any measure of belief? THE FACT THAT SHE KEPT IT A SECRET. How many hundreds, if not thousands, of lives would have been saved if she had said "oh by the way there's a really good chance the knights of the Vale are on their way, why don't we hold up a moment." Argue teleportation etc. all you want but the fact is that they arrived during the battle, so a single goddamn extra day would have sufficed. But no, I'm going to let my brother carry out his suicide mission after my whining fails to dissuade a campaign I started!
I do not see Sansa in the wrong here. She was not useless. It's so damn infuriating. Look at Theon!
Theon is not the subject at hand. I'm not revering him in any way. But my last paragraph leaves Sansa in enough wrong to fill a lifetime. As for your edit text that I can't quote, I'm pretty sure Jon still left the watch? Even Ramsay was insulting him for abandoning his duty. Like sure he snapped out of it a bit because his sister was threatening to go get herself killed without him, but convincing him to go die again is not a great achievement. Jon had just been murdered and understandbly wanted to re-evaluate his newly-gained life. Shit he's still asking everyone why he's back and telling Melissandre to just let him die next time. He's sick of this shit.
Before this battle Jon is like the saddest man alive, having experienced death and betrayal. That's what I saw when he charged selfishly like he doesn't care anymore. But when he clawed his way out of that body pile, I think he realized that he got to live. That these men are dying for him and he's not alone. That's really a great thing.
I don't even care about Sansa. She's not even there in the books yet and maybe the reunion will happen after the Vale knights made that last minute save. Which will put Jon and Sansa in a very different light.
@Monkey:
I have no doubt its not exactly as she thinks it is. But what exactly did Martin say?
So…its Haki lol?
In all seriousness that is potentially interesting. And even makes it kind of interesting that she was starting to doubt Stannis even if she wasn't fully aware of it.
It's not that much about what he says, but about how he is mainly an agnostic author, who's most works are sci fi. Haven't actually read all of them though.
In the only chapter where we get to see the point of view of Mel, among other things, we learn that she's trying to see Stanis in the fire, and while she ask "where is (prophecy guy)" the fires show "only snow", and she tries to get Jon to trust her with her tricks and powers, but only manages to creep him out.
It also forces her to admit that her powers aren't infalible, specialy the fire sight/prophecy, it being open to interpretation.
We don't know if it's "snow" or "Snow", but this interest in Jon came in the show as well, she tried to seduce him, and tried to advice him as well.
How does that constitute saving the day? It's pretty much stating the obvious as Jon said. She had no concrete insight. Not that it even matters because it's not like Ramsay did something secretly devious. Jon fell for his open, obvious bullshit in the most pathetic way (that is on Jon). And it's Sansa's fault they marched on Winterfell with such a shortage to begin with! Everyone kept telling HER they didn't have the numbers, she was the one convinced of the North's loyalty and numbers (wrong), and she literally told Jon she was going to go off to be an idiot whether he backed her or not.
Like I said, she was supposed to be unlikable at the start, and I'm sure many people saw what happened with Joffrey as some sort of karma. The problem is she apparently didn't learn much from that. I'm not sure it even humbled her. And I really DIDN'T see any character development even after Joffrey mk. 2, other than being pissed at Littlefinger for arranging that (and she was still naïve enough at the time to think she was doing something good and adult).
The campaign against Ramsay was a must. Not for Rickon, but for everything else going down. With the White Walkers coming, they're stuck between an impossible army and a slightly less impossible one. Neither one is going to let the two of them survive. Her suggestion to march against Ramsay wasn't absurd or naive. It was a necessity, and no matter what she said to Jon to convince him otherwise, Sansa knew that Rickon was 100% going to die.
And what good would telling Jon about Little Finger do? "Hey, Jon. Remember that guy who gave me to Ramsay in the first place? He's offering The knights of the Vale to help. Plus, he's probably going to rub against my thigh after we win cause I look like Mom." Jon would be too prideful to agree to that.
And Jon wasn't just quitting the Nightwatch. He was ready to abandon everything. Even in Sansa's face, he was ready to give up on Winterfeld and the White Walkers. And I get it: He's tired. He has every reason to be tired. So do a lot of people in this show. The moment Ned Stark got his head chopped off, Sansa rarely got a moment to breathe peacefully until she met up with Jon.
I meant back to square one in terms of her character development. I don't blame her for realizing she picked the worst moment to tell him to fuck off and swallowing her pride to ask for help. But you know what is idiotic beyond any measure of belief? THE FACT THAT SHE KEPT IT A SECRET. How many hundreds, if not thousands, of lives would have been saved if she had said "oh by the way there's a really good chance the knights of the Vale are on their way, why don't we hold up a moment." Argue teleportation etc. all you want but the fact is that they arrived during the battle, so a single goddamn extra day would have sufficed. But no, I'm going to let my brother carry out his suicide mission after my whining fails to dissuade a campaign I started!
Also, if sansa did tell that they should wait for the vale then maybe Ramsay seeing that they have a sizable force might have retreated back at winterfell and wait out a siege. Whatever the case sansa played it well.
It's entirely possible that this would have happened. Ramsay knowing they have a sizable force would have likely retreated back to the castle and wait out a siege. The vale came in at a moment where the majority of the cavalry was wiped out and Ramsay was out in the field, so the victory was insured this way.
It's entirely possible that this would have happened. Ramsay knowing they have a sizable force would have likely retreated back to the castle and wait out a siege. The vale came in at a moment where the majority of the cavalry was wiped out and Ramsay was out in the field, so the victory was insured this way.
Yes, and the fact that having the Vale's units out during the early cavalier rush would have eliminated their numbers too, only for them to be bound inside the wall of shielded soldiers. Putting them in the same situation as before, but without rescue. But then that just goes into arguments of "But Sansa couldn't have known/That doesn't excuse what Sansa did/But all those people who died" and it's just not worth it.
@Monkey:
I have no doubt its not exactly as she thinks it is. But what exactly did Martin say?
So…its Haki lol?
In all seriousness that is potentially interesting. And even makes it kind of interesting that she was starting to doubt Stannis even if she wasn't fully aware of it.
For what it's worth, the books lean heavily on "Red God and Drowned God are legit and possibly the same thing".
@Cyan:
For what it's worth, the books lean heavily on "Red God and Drowned God are legit and possibly the same thing".
Wait what? When? Moqoro?
Man you guys crack me up. The show's depiction of military strategy was shit but yours is ten times worse. This isn't worth my time.
Yes, and the fact that having the Vale's units out during the early cavalier rush would have eliminated their numbers too, only for them to be bound inside the wall of shielded soldiers. Putting them in the same situation as before, but without rescue. But then that just goes into arguments of "But Sansa couldn't have known/That doesn't excuse what Sansa did/But all those people who died" and it's just not worth it.
…no. Do you not get what my point was? I said that if Ramsay knew about the larger army he might not have went and meet them out in the field, but rather hid insight and wait out for a siege. Which means the vale wouldn't have surprised attacked them last minute. and the problem also lies in what reason did sana have not to tell jon about littlefinger?
Man you guys crack me up. The show's depiction of military strategy was shit but yours is ten times worse. This isn't worth my time.
do you also think the blackwater bay had a terrible depiction of military strategy? what about the castle black? It's entirely possible that maybe Grrms depiction of this battle is much more well thought out, but I take it you didnt like blackwater either then?
It's not that much about what he says, but about how he is mainly an agnostic author, who's most works are sci fi. Haven't actually read all of them though.
Eh?? So what? Really? Him being agnostic means he wouldn't want to play around with theological concepts and bizarre fantasy pantheons?
I can tell you first hand THAT ain't true.
Ramsay's military strategy was pretty sound. It was basically the Mannstein Plan on a small scale.
Martin's occasionally tackled matters of faith in his short stories but generally focuses on human perception and interpretation. In most cases the actual existence of a deity is left ambiguous, just like in ASoIaF.
On a related note, I really hope prophesies and visions continue to be zigzagged on their accuracy rather than all being true.
@Monkey:
Eh?? So what? Really? Him being agnostic means he wouldn't want to play around with theological concepts and bizarre fantasy pantheons?
I can tell you first hand THAT ain't true.
what jabber said. Also, that's a faulty assumption in logic. That's like saying if you're atheist you'd never take a philosophy of religion class. That's the whole point of writing, is to write things outside of yourself.
who in here didn't enjoy ramsays death? I think i might be the only that doesn't get a hard on for sadistic shit. my friends were cheering when he was getting eaten by dogs.
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Martin's occasionally tackled matters of faith in his short stories but generally focuses on human perception and interpretation. In most cases the actual existence of a deity is left ambiguous, just like in ASoIaF.
On a related note, I really hope prophesies and visions continue to be zigzagged on their accuracy rather than all being true.
absolutely. The prophecy regarding stannis was not true, it was distorted which means jon snow is the prince that was promised. But I do think it's likely that Cerseis 3 children will die (2 are already dead except for tommen) and I think that's going to change and he will die too making her prophecy come true. the prophecy states that cersei will die via her little brother. But I think Jaime is her little brother they are twins but Jaime got conceived earlier like 30 minutes earlier in the world of the show. So technically if jaime does kill cersei it would still keep the prophecy true. Which I think might happen because jaime always had a distateste for the mad king. IF cersei becomes more like the mad king with her use of wildfire jaime might just go and kill her.
Cersei's prophecy is going to come true because she's obsessed with stopping it and the laws of drama demand that the more you try to stop a prophecy, the more likely it's going to happen in a weird way.
Technically Cersei's fortune doesn't specify that it's her little brother that will kill her. It could be Theon or even some random Frey who kills her for all we know.
No, it's specified as her little brother by magy the frog. Also, that would make no fucking sense narrative wise to have theon or some random kill her.
In her youth Cersei Lannister received a prophecy from Maggy the frog that she would die at the hands of the "Valonqar", which is the word for "little brother" in High Valyrian
Technically Cersei's fortune doesn't specify that it's her little brother that will kill her. It could be Theon or even some random Frey who kills her for all we know.
Though of course the only options with actual narrative weight are Tyrion and Jaime. And Cersei's obsessive belief that it would be Tyrion means that the drama gods will have Jaime kill her.
what jabber said.
Nothing Jabber said contradicts what I said.
Also, that's a faulty assumption in logic. That's like saying if you're atheist you'd never take a philosophy of religion class. That's the whole point of writing, is to write things outside of yourself.
Um…are you talking to Maxterdexter? Because this almost exactly the point I was making.
@Monkey:
Eh?? So what? Really? Him being agnostic means he wouldn't want to play around with theological concepts and bizarre fantasy pantheons?
I can tell you first hand THAT ain't true.
Not wanting, but it makes it more unlikely.
There is clearly a supernatural element on the series, the source being gods, mens or something else is up to debate, but between the old gods being actual animist deities or the children of the forest being in the weirdwoods, the second is more likely, between the seven being just a Christian representation or just very lazy gods, the red god being the one true deity of the world or just reasoning behind another branch of power like warging or some old dude in a tree handling things.
With such diverse set of religions he's obviously playing with it, but mostly on the human side.
Three religions have shown actual supernatural power, old gods, god of death and the red god, out of five mayor ones, and like 15 name dropped. I don't see the guys who set people on fire being the ones who follow a true god. Even through Thoros is pretty mellow.
@Monkey:
Nothing Jabber said contradicts what I said.
Um…are you talking to Maxterdexter? Because this almost exactly the point I was making.
I have no idea wth maxterdexter is going on about. That's like saying if you're a man you wouldn't be writing women. thats like saying if you are decent person you wouldn't be writing about psychopaths or criminals. The whole point of writing is to play with ideas. and grrm uses the gods as commentary on how religion affects people. And this is a fantasy show ffs, what is so unusual about it and a supernatural god? Grrm himself said that he doesn't want to make magic op, because this is ultimately a show about people and not magic. So the magic is very limiting.
oh and speaking of which the only thing grrm has said about Melisandra is that she is misunderstood. in the books we see her pov for only one chapter or so and basically her power kind of puts a toll on her and drains her rending her kind of weak. She can only see short glimpses (we kind of knew that) but I believe these glimpses are out of context in the same way that Bran sees them. For example she told stannis that there would be a fight in the snow that the banners of the bolotns would be burned. Turnes out stannis died, but her prediction came true, it just wasn't stannis it was jon snow. basically out of context. But yeah, the power is definitely real (shadow baby, revival) but grrm intentionally keeps it ambiqous so that we can less determine how it works or throw us a curveball like he did with hodor.
Not wanting, but it makes it more unlikely.
…no though.
He's not proselytizing if that's what you thought I was saying, god forbid.
Three religions have shown actual supernatural power, old gods, god of death and the red god, out of five mayor ones, and like 15 name dropped. I don't see the guys who set people on fire being the ones who follow a true god. Even through Thoros is pretty mellow.
You say this like whatever beings are involved are not potentially evil or something.
Yeah, OK, was going through a bump thinking "god is good" and if one of them is going to be an actual god is going to be the most ruthless and effective one.
@Cyan:
Though of course the only options with actual narrative weight are Tyrion and Jaime. And Cersei's obsessive belief that it would be Tyrion means that the drama gods will have Jaime kill her.
No, it's specified as her little brother by magy the frog. Also, that would make no fucking sense narrative wise to have theon or some random kill her.
It definitely isn't specified. Maggy says "the valonqar" and Cersei's mind immediately jumps to Tyrion.
I threw out some random names that are incredibly unlikely, and Jaime is obviously the overwhelming favorite to end up killing her, but there are some actually compelling theories for other characters out there. Sandor is one, Young Griff another, and my favorite curveball is Euron marrying Cersei and then Victarion strangling her in revenge.
Another fairly widespread theory posits that valonqar is actually gender neutral and Maggy is simply not fluent in High Valyrian. If so, it opens the door for people like Dany, Sansa, or Arya to kill Cersei.
@Monkey:
Nothing Jabber said contradicts what I said.
If anything, it supports what you said. The uncertain existence of deities is more realistic and makes any theological musings more relatable.
It definitely isn't specified. Maggy says "the valonqar" and Cersei's mind immediately jumps to Tyrion.
I threw out some random names that are incredibly unlikely, and Jaime is obviously the overwhelming favorite to end up killing her, but there are some actually compelling theories for other characters out there. Sandor is one, Young Griff another, and my favorite curveball is Euron marrying Cersei and then Victarion strangling her in revenge.
What narrative reasons are there for the Hound, that terribly-timed plot line, or Victarion doing it? None of them have any personal and thematic connection to Cersei unlike Jaime who's arc is almost certainly set up to climax with a repeat of Aerys II.
Another fairly widespread theory posits that valonqar is actually gender neutral and Maggy is simply not fluent in High Valyrian. If so, it opens the door for people like Dany, Sansa, or Arya to kill Cersei.
That would be dumb as hell.
@Cyan:
What narrative reasons are there for the Hound, that terribly-timed plot line, or Victarion doing it? None of them have any personal and thematic connection to Cersei unlike Jaime who's arc is almost certainly set up to climax with a repeat of Aerys II.
All three have narratively plausible ways to kill her, even if they lack thematic reasons to do so. It becomes a question of how GRRM values thematic deaths compared to a more nihilistic view where the character arc is more important than the character's death.
Jaime is absolutely the best choice to kill her, but some people like to be contrary. I think the only way Jaime doesn't kill Cersei is if GRRM decides the predictability somehow outweighs how thematically fitting it would be.
That would be dumb as hell.
Pretty much, but some languages revert to a default male term when the gender is unclear. There are a couple explanations floating around and several younger sisters in the series have a better claim to Cersei's demise than the aforementioned younger brothers.
Like hey, we still don't know who Arya's big kill will be.
Exactly. Arya has to get someone relevant from.her list, she's out of mooks already.
Arya is a bland character, likewise with Sansa as Foolio has mentioned.
I only like Tyrion, Peter, Davos (perhaps) and Varys, I did find both Stannis and Tywin interesting, though you know what happened to them…
tywin was my husbandu, i loved him. he was so calculating and vicious.
he died the worse death ever in the show, even ramasy's death has more dignity to it.
So does Melisandre's god grant her youth magic? Or is that something else all together?
Where was Ghost?
Not saying I want yet another direwolf to die, but he should have been by Jon's side, like Grey Wind and Robb. It would've reinforced the whole "Starks are back" message.
Ghost could even have been utilized by taking the hit for Rickon, thus closing the circle. Stark bastard saves direwolf pup from being killed - grown direwolf saves Stark pup from being shot.
Where was Ghost?
Not saying I want yet another direwolf to die, but he should have been by Jon's side, like Grey Wind and Robb. It would've reinforced the whole "Starks are back" message.
Ghost could even have been utilized by taking the hit for Rickon, thus closing the circle. Stark bastard saves direwolf pup from being killed - grown direwolf saves Stark pup from being shot.
Quit killing the direwolves.
But I would have liked to see Ghost. I was fully expecting to finally see some aweseome dire wolf action when I heard Ramsey mention his dogs not eating in 7 days. Though the dire wolf would kill those dogs in the battle.
But nope.