Supposedly Jaime's Riverlands plot from AFfC and ADwD that got pushed aside for Dorne last season is going to happen this season instead. If that really is true, I hope we get a move-on with that soon. I'm not someone who throws a big fuss every time the show deviates from the books (in fact, I many times prefer the changes that the show makes), but I will say that I'm not a big fan of how show-Jaime seems to just be ignoring his great character development in Seasons 3 and 4 (though admittedly, he hasn't really gotten much screentime yet this season). I enjoyed his further characterization in those aforementioned novels, so I'm hoping we'll get something similar for the show.
Game of Thrones (tv show thread)
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Supposedly Jaime's Riverlands plot from AFfC and ADwD that got pushed aside for Dorne last season is going to happen this season instead. If that really is true, I hope we get a move-on with that soon. I'm not someone who throws a big fuss every time the show deviates from the books (in fact, I many times prefer the changes that the show makes), but I will say that I'm not a big fan of how show-Jaime seems to just be ignoring his great character development in Seasons 3 and 4 (though admittedly, he hasn't really gotten much screentime yet this season). I enjoyed his further characterization in those aforementioned novels, so I'm hoping we'll get something similar for the show.
wait. So if this is true wouldn't that mean that "certain" character from the book is alive. Unless they stick with the same plot twist
! and have beric dondarion pull it off isntead of lady stoneheart.
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wait. So if this is true wouldn't that mean that "certain" character from the book is alive. Unless they stick with the same plot twist
! and have beric dondarion pull it off isntead of lady stoneheart.
That might be the case. First of all, here's the article that talks about Jaime going there–apparently the actor who played Brynden Tully a.k.a. "Blackfish" (Catelyn's uncle who escaped from the Red Wedding) is coming back for this season, and filmed scenes with Jaime's actor Nickolaj. Then, in this article, Wetpaint speculates that this character could appear based on a quote from the show's prosthetics supervisor about an "incredible" plotline that was planned first for Season 4 but then pulled, and then planned for Season 5 but also pulled, and then planned for this season. From what I can tell, it's mostly just speculation, but it's an interesting thought.
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That might be the case. First of all, here's the article that talks about Jaime going there–apparently the actor who played Brynden Tully a.k.a. "Blackfish" (Catelyn's uncle who escaped from the Red Wedding) is coming back for this season, and filmed scenes with Jaime's actor Nickolaj. Then, in this article, Wetpaint speculates that this character could appear based on a quote from the show's prosthetics supervisor about an "incredible" plotline that was planned first for Season 4 but then pulled, and then planned for Season 5 but also pulled, and then planned for this season. From what I can tell, it's mostly just speculation, but it's an interesting thought.
hella late if they actually do birng ladystoneheart into all of this after 2 seasons. it's a bit too late imo. I expected her arrival shortly after the event. or at least season 4. ANd that didn't happen either.
Idk what that would achieve. But I feel like people might care less now and it might come more left field wtf. Although,
! maybe not since Jon snow got revived recently the TV viewers first hand know someone can be revived. Since this idea is fresh in their mind it might work well to introduce lady stonehart.
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tv viewers knew characters could get revived even before jon snow. remember beric ? he was revived after getting split by the hound.
i could make a case for khal drogo but he came back catatonic (probably intentionally though). -
double post because i have a theory and i wanna know what you guys think about it.
i think the leader of the sons of the harpy is gonna be xaro xhoan daxos or the warlocks of qarth or maybe both.
yes, last time we've seen him he was locked up in his safe. but what if it had a secret entrance in it? or if the warlocks used their magic to get him out.
the warlocks tried to kill dany with that scorpion once, they failed but they never tried again. why is that? because they have men who can do their jobs for them now. -
Ooh, thats a good one! I have a feeling that the leaders of Sons of the Harpy are going to be a different people in books and tv, but in tv show they can totally go for Xaro so they don't have to introduce another character no one can relate to.
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Just watched Tower of Joy fight. Didn't really like how they cheapened Ned and Howie's victory, as if it wasn't cheap enough already.
Dem Howie's ninja skills, though.
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LOL, here's the SNL parody of the Jon Snow revival scene. Pretty much shows what everybody was thinking while watching it.
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! We've been waiting on that "yet" for basically three seasons now. His only real comeuppance has been daddy's admonishments.
! In other words, literally nothing happened because of it. It was a subplot meant solely to take up space in an underfilled season that ended up showing what we already knew and keeping that status quo, ultimately just building Ramsay up as some deranged sexy shirtless god of war. And we hadn't heard from Yara since then until now, two seasons later. Clearly important.
! Ramsay also said he'll expel the Ironborn from the North and we're just kind of hearing about that secondhand now, two seasons later.
! Given that the point of marrying Sansa was to unite the North, you'd think the fact would be publicized. You don't need spies to hear about news that's being spread across half the continent.
! Speaking of which, it's so good that Roose and Littlefinger acted quickly on that alliance instead of just leaving Sansa to get abused by Ramsay.
! Yeah, I should hope so.
! That's great in concept but the execution, what with hitting us over the head with how terrible he is every episode, is pretty flawed.
! It'd be nice if there was some actual conflict or communication between the two by now. Jon's only being identified now as a potential threat to Ramsay, and Jon has no clue about what's going on in Winterfell.
! Ultimately, probably not. But D&D love making Ramsay seem invincible so I wouldn't be surprised if it takes way too fucking long and he cheats death in some absurd way.
! Again, that's fine in concept, but we get the point by now. We don't have to underline how terrible a person he is every time he appears.
! Sure. Fair.
! Hyperbole is the root of any good argument :ninja:
! I mean that many people don't care if he has a satisfying karmic death or not, they just want him out of the story. I would be as equally satisfied if he bled out after getting his dick eaten by Ghost as if he was randomly killed by Super Buu.
! Again, the cartoonishly evil aspect comes from the writers looking for new ways for him to be an awful person.
! The perfect example is in episode 1 of this season, where he "mourns" Myranda's death and then turns around and feeds her to his dogs. That's characterization we've never even seen a hint of before, and it's all for the "shock" value of immediately discarding it.
! Yes, yes it does. Like Jaime's travesty of a character arc, Dany's bad acting, and the sinkhole known as Dorne. Let's be thankful that Ramsay's character doesn't quite reach the worst depths of the series /sarcasmAt least Ramsy has more than 1 dimension. You can tell he feels differently when killing family. Also this is the first power play he's made where u can tell he's unsure of himself. Usually he's on the money but this was an act of desperation and should backfire on him bigtime. I think p.much everyone wants him to die awfully. Put me down for getting fucked to death by that wildling giant. Without lube.
LOL, here's the SNL parody of the Jon Snow revival scene. Pretty much shows what everybody was thinking while watching it.
credit where credit is due. Kit Harrington plays an awesome corpse. I'd forgotten what a crappy actor he is until he came back to life and tried to show emotion.
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Kit Harrington is arguably the most improved actor of the series. He took extra lessons between seasons 3 and 4 and it's really showed.
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Oh Ramsey…you continue to be a bastard.
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^Agreed. My friend and I were completely calling that she was a goner, because gods forbid Ramsay not get his way.
On the other hand, the beginning made me so happy and the end was so awesome that there's no way I couldn't love that episode. This was more or less me there at the end:
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I am so over Ramsay. I cannot deal with another four or five episodes of him.
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he is a ruthless killer and in position of power what do you expect? Although, the scene was necessary. Nobody really cares about this wilding girl. It's the fault of the showrunners crappy writing, and not the actual character.
I'm so over danys lame/boring storyline if you ask me.
Lame episode and nothing really happened. Finally glad to see Lord beilish for once in this entire season. Called it and was totally expected I'm pretty sure Beilishs army will swoop in to save Jons army from getting destroyed by ramsays. ALthough, Jon does have wildning giants. Like i said have ramsay get raped by a giant. No lube. I can already see his death involving a giant of some sort as retribution or perharps burned alive.
Ser friendzone and merc pimp took half the episode jesus. Worst arc ever in the history of arcs my god. The story needs to be pick up really and Im guessing it's going to happen around episode nei- nine.
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! I hope theres more to this idea than kill the current people in charge because that's clearly not a solid strategy for long term rule and she should know that by now.
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ramsay has never seen a wildning giant. I think it would make even the mountain shit his pants.
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! I am interested in Tyrion's 7 year plan. It clearly is a way to get more time to plot rather than actually wait out those 7 years. Perhaps its a plan to split up the slavers and the harpies to deal with them separately. Looking forward for it!
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@xan:
! I am interested in Tyrion's 7 year plan. It clearly is a way to get more time to plot rather than actually wait out those 7 years. Perhaps its a plan to split up the slavers and the harpies to deal with them separately. Looking forward for it!
I haven't been impressed with Tyrions storyline at all tbh. They are wasting two very important characters (varys tyrion) and their amazing acting abilities to what seems boring and nothing happening. I'm also fairly certain this is part of Tyrion's bigger plan.
! Maybe if it had the plot of the actual books where mereen is under siege it would be a much more interesting. Maybe they'll get there?
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I haven't been impressed with Tyrions storyline at all tbh. They are wasting two very important characters (varys tyrion) and their amazing acting abilities to what seems boring and nothing happening. I'm also fairly certain this is part of Tyrion's bigger plan.
! Maybe if it had the plot of the actual books where mereen is under siege it would be a much more interesting. Maybe they'll get there?
I think the plan to sabotage the Harpies is quite a short one hence the unnecessary stretching involved before reaching the conclusion. I mean the last week episode's Meereen scene where Varys throws in a deal with the girl to give more info was sorta unnecessary because he is known for his shadow activities from the start.
Or perhaps they really don't want the duo to do much before the Queen gets back. Hopefully they don't go with that since I really wanted to see an independent Tyrion in action
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! - Jon and Sansa's reunion has no right to be this sweet, considering they never spoke a word to each other in the show. I liked it. Especially that the Stark kids who finally got back together are the ones who didn't like each other.
! - Jon is wearing Winterfell clothes.
! - I guess they're not feeling the need to tell Sansa that Jon was murdered (understandably), but Sansa and Brienne should find it strange that Jon talks about quitting the Night's Watch, and nobody questions it.
! - Theon can walk right into Pike's throne room. I guess the guards didn't get the memo where Yara/Asha claimed her brother was dead.
! - Theon's road to redemption has to involve saving Rickon. I guess Jon will rally the North, and Theon will make sure the Iron Islands answer.
! - There's the pink letter! Snow vs. Snow - it's on.
! - Nice sequence in Vaes Dothrak, even if it puts Dany right back to square one. I guess after having her Dothraki army deal with the hostile cities, she will finally, hopefully, go to Westeros. -
! So Dany's entire story arc was going back to square one. Also apparently in the GoT universe, things just immediately catch fire. Sigh.
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"To go north, you must go south. To reach the west, you must go east. To go forward you must go back, and to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow."
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! I don't see how this is "back to square one" for Daenerys. Far from it. This time:
-Her dragons are elsewhere, but they're actually big, rideable, and can kill people.
-She's got a much bigger group of Dothraki than she did the first time. And this time it's not just old people, kids, and freed slaves, either, but actual fighters as well. (More than just a couple of bloodriders, anyway.)
-They're not stranded out in the middle of the desert in danger of starving to death. The village has supplies, and she knows where she needs to go.
-She's got another huge army and several smart advisors, all loyal to her, elsewhere taking care of her city for her (a giant city that she's conquered and rules).
-She's not a total nobody anymore; she has thousands of freed slaves who love her, and the whole world knows her name.
! Really, it seems more like her story arc between leaving Meereen and now was a "recruitment" arc: going off and finding more people to follow her and join her cause. Doesn't sound like a "square one" scenario to me. -
! Tormund and Briene. Please have sex.
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! Tormund and Briene. Please have sex.
Ha, it's true. I never thought I'd root for any Brienne pairing other than Jaime/Brienne, but after this episode, Tormund/Brienne is looking like a very nice alternative (especially since Jaime and Cersei in the show are just never breaking up, apparently).
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I dont know what's going on with people and hating on Dany. I think last EP was great.
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! I don't see how this is "back to square one" for Daenerys. Far from it. This time:
-Her dragons are elsewhere, but they're actually big, rideable, and can kill people.
-She's got a much bigger group of Dothraki than she did the first time. And this time it's not just old people, kids, and freed slaves, either, but actual fighters as well. (More than just a couple of bloodriders, anyway.)
-They're not stranded out in the middle of the desert in danger of starving to death. The village has supplies, and she knows where she needs to go.
-She's got another huge army and several smart advisors, all loyal to her, elsewhere taking care of her city for her (a giant city that she's conquered and rules).
-She's not a total nobody anymore; she has thousands of freed slaves who love her, and the whole world knows her name.
! Really, it seems more like her story arc between leaving Meereen and now was a "recruitment" arc: going off and finding more people to follow her and join her cause. Doesn't sound like a "square one" scenario to me.! These are all superficial things. I'm speaking character-wise. After fucking up Mereen and Astapor, she still chooses to go on with her campaign for total domination without the slightest bit of hesitation. And she doesn't even earn it via diplomacy and charisma to show her growth as a leader and display how things will be different this time, she just murders everyone through a cheap trick (that should not have worked, fire doesn't spread that quickly. Also there was nothing stopping one of the Khal to snap her neck in revenge) and once again everyone is bowing to her when she didn't really do anything to deserve it.
! She doesn't earn her power, it's simply hand delivered to her through through the power of plot.
! I mean after her terrible leadership from before, you'd think Dany would have the slightest bit of introspection about her actions but she instead she just carries on like nothing happened. Weak. -
@TLC:
! Also apparently in the GoT universe, things just immediately catch fire. Sigh.
! I've seen a lot of people complaining about that.
! Is it so hard to comprehend that Jorah and Daario doused the floor in wine? -
Yeaaaah…Dany has been in character limbo for a few years now already which pretty much makes her one of the least interesting pov/story arcs to follow. The resolve in this episode did not really help at all.
! And I'm sure she's just going to march home as if nothing had happened, demand her place as queen and somehow gets mired in another distraction that hardly seems worth following until she FINALLY gets to Westeros
! PS: I presume that Jorah and Dario just soaked the hut in oil in advance. Hence, they conveniently played a part in her plan. Not sure what plan…if any, she would have had if neither showed up. -
I dont know what's going on with people and hating on Dany. I think last EP was great.
I agree, but one of the many things I've learned about the GoT fandom is that the majority of Dany haters will never be satisfied regardless of what she does. @TLC:
! These are all superficial things. I'm speaking character-wise. After fucking up Mereen and Astapor, she still chooses to go on with her campaign for total domination without the slightest bit of hesitation. And she doesn't even earn it via diplomacy and charisma to show her growth as a leader and display how things will be different this time, she just murders everyone through a cheap trick (that should not have worked, fire doesn't spread that quickly. Also there was nothing stopping one of the Khal to snap her neck in revenge) and once again everyone is bowing to her when she didn't really do anything to deserve it.
! She doesn't earn her power, it's simply hand delivered to her through through the power of plot.
! I mean after her terrible leadership from before, you'd think Dany would have the slightest bit of introspection about her actions but she instead she just carries on like nothing happened. Weak.! What "diplomatic, charismatic" approach was she supposed to try? These guys were Dothraki, i.e. incredibly sexist men whose culture teaches them to see all women, even khaleesi, as pretty much nothing more than child-bearing sex slaves. There was no way in hell she was getting through to them with words. She tried after she told them that she was Drogo's widow, when she asked to be taken back to her city, and they ignored her and made her come to Vaes Dothrak anyway. They straight-up told her in this episode that what she thinks and has to say doesn't mean shit to them. So no, she wasn't going to accomplish anything with "diplomacy and charisma". (I'll also point out that, when she used words on someone more likely to hear her out–the Lhazarene ex-khaleesi--it worked.) She pretty much had three options: 1) meekly agree to become a Dosh Khaleen and stay in Vaes Dothrak, and maybe wait for the chance to sneak out and escape all on her own (doesn't sound appealing); 2) be forced into becoming their sex slave (hells to the no); or 3) fight her way out. I.e. the one viable option that didn't involve her timidly backing down and doing what the big strong men told her to do.
! As for "not earning her power": she came up with the plan to kill the khals and gain the rest of the khalasars on her own. She did kill them single-handedly. The khals didn't take her seriously until it was too late because they couldn't comprehend a) the idea of a woman being dangerous to them, and b) that someone could be immune to fire. Just like the first time around, the Dothraki were impressed by the fact that she emerged unharmed from a fiery inferno (because again, couldn't comprehend the immune-to-fire thing)–albeit minus dragons this time. She's not a physical fighter who earns power by killing with her own hands, and as I said above, diplomacy wasn't accomplishing shit here. So she earned the power the same way she has in the past: by being smart and coming up with a clever idea that makes use of the resources she has, and as a result, people respect her and want to follow her. Just like what she did at the end of Season 1, and just as she did with gaining the Unsullied and sacking Astapor in Season 3.
! Also, as far as the whole diplomacy thing goes, even in the books, didn't her whole time wandering around hallucinating after escaping Meereen basically remind her that she isn't supposed to be a diplomat? That Targaryens are conquerors rather than peacemakers, and taking what they want through force is how they do things? I thought her hallucinations were telling her that the approach she'd been trying in Meereen–trying to compromise and be diplomatic--wasn't working and ultimately wasn't the right approach anyway.
! For the record, I'm not denying the fact that plenty of her plotlines in the past have been a little dull if not straight-up boring and/or pointless, but I agree with Nami that I think she's getting way too much hate for one of the most awesome things she's done on the show in a long time. -
^^ i agree with that. there is no other way dany could've gotten out of that situation winning. as for one of the khals going in to kill her, that couldn't have worked either. there was fire in the way, and even if there wasn't. what would be your first instinct action when you see the straw house you're in catching fire? for all they knew she is already dead if she didn't escape from the house too.
the fire spreading could have more than one explaination:
a) she's a targaryen with fire affinity. is it that far to believe that she could've influenced or manipulated it somehow with her powers? no, it's not far at all.
b) the straw house was doused with a flammable substance or even the torches themselves could have that substance in them and when she dropped them it spilled and caught the straw.don't use nitpicky stuff just to hate on the show.
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! When in doubt, blood magic
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@TLC:
! These are all superficial things. I'm speaking character-wise. After fucking up Mereen and Astapor, she still chooses to go on with her campaign for total domination without the slightest bit of hesitation. And she doesn't even earn it via diplomacy and charisma to show her growth as a leader and display how things will be different this time, she just murders everyone through a cheap trick (that should not have worked, fire doesn't spread that quickly. Also there was nothing stopping one of the Khal to snap her neck in revenge) and once again everyone is bowing to her when she didn't really do anything to deserve it.
! She doesn't earn her power, it's simply hand delivered to her through through the power of plot.
! I mean after her terrible leadership from before, you'd think Dany would have the slightest bit of introspection about her actions but she instead she just carries on like nothing happened. Weak.! I guess that's the whole point about her character and why Tyrion will become a vital part of her team. She needs someone who gets some sense to her at times where ruthlessness isn't the option. Tyrion pretty much nailed it when he explained how her war mongering mentality won't help her when she goes to Westeros where the enemies are on a higher level. Plus she is a Targaryen and they aren't really known for their diplomacy. Danerys stands for being a leader! She is a symbol of power over which people flock towards. She isn't required to be a peacemaker or a diplomat
! I am not sure about the fire. I thought I saw some sawdust or hay sort of stuff in there. -
! If it was bloodmagic there was no sacrifice on her part. Also she doesn't really know how to do blood magic. But magic would be the only way she survives not just the fire but the collapsing structure and the smoke. So I guess she can do blood magic now but that really has no precedent. GRRM said the Dragon baby fire was supposed to be a one time thing. But this is show and things are different, ok. Still needs an explanation.
! As for the how the fire spread the floor is dirt but if those torches were filled with oil or rendered fat, very full, that could easily explain it spreading the way it did.
! Dany is one of my favorite characters. I usually support and defend her decision making. But she literally just went through the problem of what happens when you tear down a power structure and don't put anything to replace it. It's not like she's going to stay with Dothraki forever. She doesn't even plan on stay on the continent. Unless she takes all of them with her to Westeros then she just killed all their leaders so she could use them for short term power gain. Like I said, I'm sure there is more to this plan than just kill the leaders the Dothraki have historically and culturally followed for thousands of years but it better be good. Otherwise she's just repeating the same mistakes she made.
! I get that she was in a predicament but if the writers are already deviating from what GRRM had planned then they could have had her get out of that situation the same way she got out of the arena. I mean where did Drogon go at the end of least season. Or maybe she could have sneaked out of the city. They could have done several things. They choose to do it this way though. -
i would've to agree with you guys on ramsay, i've grown somewhat desensitized with how casually he keeps on killing. it's kinda boring actually.
add to that the fact that there's really no point to be proven by killing osha like that. the whole sequence was just so stupid, he had to know that she was gonna go for the knife, so he already set his mind on killing her. but why? even he likes to play with his victims. i like the character but i don't think he's being written well enough now.rest of the episode was fine. i liked the reunion between the starks and the greyjoys. not sure how tyrion's 7 year plan is gonna convince the slavers to free the slaves, and what will sansa do when she realizes that although the boltons are indeed 5000 they are joined by the two greatest houses in the north with alot more numbers.
about this, i heard that in the books jon snow sends mance rayder to get arya from the boltons, maybe the tv show will do something similar with another character? lets hope so.
also, -
! Ah yes, the Dothraki tradition of lining their sacred temples with pure gasoline
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! Wait so I am a bit confused about the hidden conversation between Tommen and Cersei. Did he really say that Margaery will be made to do a walk of shame or was that just cooked up by Cersei (and Jaime incidentally) to somehow rally the council to do away with the Faith Militants before they reveal some other damaging truth of some sort?!
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! That was really unclear. Like if the High Sparrow did tell Tommen that, he did it certainly knowing it would reach his mother and the rest of court. So that means he wants a confrontation. Maybe he does, that seems really manipulative though. But also an open confrontation using just Tyrell men against the church would make the Tyrells look bad which we know Cersei would love to see and if it works it also gets rid of the High Sparrow.
! It's really hard to tell who is playing who with that but it definitely feels like there's a game going on. -
! - Nice sequence in Vaes Dothrak, even if it puts Dany right back to square one. I guess after having her Dothraki army deal with the hostile cities, she will finally, hopefully, go to Westeros.
! Square one? She sort of kind of had control over a horde of Dothraki before through a husband.
Now she just gained control of like….all the Dothraki there are, directly herself lol.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
! @TLC:
! > >! These are all superficial things.
! How is taking control of like an entire culture of horse raiders superficial?
You're talking upside down on plot stuff again TLC.
Superficial doesn't describe substantial plot developments no matter how you strain it to do so.
! > I'm speaking character-wise. After fucking up Mereen and Astapor, she still chooses to go on with her campaign for total domination without the slightest bit of hesitation.
! Here I thought you were going to say something about her losing confidence she gained. No, I guess we're complaining about her not losing confidence…??
! > And she doesn't even earn it via diplomacy and charisma to show her growth as a leader and display how things will be different this time,
! Do you not know what charisma means?
! > she just murders everyone through a cheap trick (that should not have worked, fire doesn't spread that quickly.
! In wooden and clay looking structures? Gonna go with it being plausible. Also irrelevant fairly irrelevant given the door was blocked.
! > Also there was nothing stopping one of the Khal to snap her neck in revenge)
! I think the fire she was standing in.
! > and once again everyone is bowing to her when she didn't really do anything to deserve it.
! What is charisma to you exactly?–- Update From New Post Merge ---
! @valiantt:
! > And I'm sure she's just going to march home as if nothing had happened
! Ok so even some of the Pro-DanyThisEpisode seem to have missed this, but wtf people.
This was the capital of Dothraki. The capital.
That was a council meeting of the Khals, those are/were all the leaders of all the Dothraki there are. Gathered together with their troops and talking over stuff, and she killed them in a fantastical impressive supernatural display in front of massive crowds of Dothraki who then bowed down to her.
Why are the implications of this flying miles above everyone's heads. -
! How many coups does this make? Quarth should consider itself lucky.
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! Dany is still the weakest storyline to this entire show. IT also doesn't help that emilia clarke is a horrible actress. Was totally an excuse by the showrunners so she can show us some tits. Margary has an excuse because she is all dirty and stuff.
! Anyways, Dany has been getting her way for pretty much the beginning of the show and this isn't any different from what we've already seen. If people wanna complain about someone whose actions haven't had consequences look at Dany.
! She is the archetypal strong leader who overtakes whatever she wants.
! In the books the stannis vs bolton hasn't even happened yet. Stannis has a big ass army so if he does die in the books it's more unpredictable. This showcases how much better the books are because they are not limited by money. IN the show Stannis dies with a pathetic army.
! Anyways, there is a letter send to Jon snow about how he has defeated Stannis ( a lie he is sitll alive in the books).
! And beilishes plotline sounds even dumber by knowingly sending sansa in danger. In the books he sends a fake sansa who ends up escaping with Theon instead of putting sansa in danger. talk about some dumb writing from the showrunners. -
! Was totally an excuse by the showrunners so she can show us some tits.
! Fabric is flammable.
! > Anyways, Dany has been getting her way for pretty much the beginning of the show and this isn't any different from what we've already seen. If people wanna complain about someone whose actions haven't had consequences look at Dany.
! lol, which is it folks. Are the slave city conquests massive quagmire disasters, or is she a Mary Sue genius succeeding at every turn. Let's try a consistent mode of bitching here. -
! And beilishes plotline sounds even dumber by knowingly sending sansa in danger. In the books he sends a fake sansa who ends up escaping with Theon instead of putting sansa in danger. talk about some dumb writing from the showrunners.
i think you mean arya?
he's a ruthless manipulator, it's not surprising at all for him to use sansa. he doesn't love her, he loves her mother. and he has used women before and he betrayed her father.
he is definitely the kind that will do anything to achieve what he wants. there's a scene in next week's episode preview where she actually confronts him about it, so hopefully he doesn't get out of it unscathed. -
! I don't think that anyone can argue with the results, the method is that is wonky
! While the other young leaders fuck things up royaly, and after being raised from the dead they just want to cut their losses, she just mesiah herself into power, again.
! And that is what I want to see explored, why she believes that her godgiven powers to hatch dragons and not be burnt meant that she's meant to rule, to save the world, or to conquer it. While the book has her mantra of "If I look back I'm lost", that makes her determination relatable and as poorly tought as it should be.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
! The thing is that she is both, she succeds in things that shouldn't be possible, and then she can't keep shit together in things that are easier than "conquer 3 cities with just 100 men and 3 baby dragons" or "survive funeral pyres", while the show keeps on with the "she's so badass", this was supposed to be a time for her to reflect and think about Mereen and how to keep slavers bay free of slaves without her, instead she goes all mesiah, again.
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"Westeros has no slavery, and I grew up richer than all of you. Where are your inner capitalists?"
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@Monkey:
! Fabric is flammable.
! lol, which is it folks. Are the slave city conquests massive quagmire disasters, or is she a Mary Sue genius succeeding at every turn. Let's try a consistent mode of bitching here.
What's your actual stance here? Do you think Dany is a decent character or what LOL> I mean its not just emilia…kit is a pretty atrocious actor. And bran an even worse one(meh he isn't doing much besides flashbacks). But yeah. At least for me the North is interesting because of davos and the red woman. SOmehow they even managed to make dorne even shitter. And the greyjoys are ifnally going to be doing something interesting. There is about like 1 and a half storylines I give a shit about so far.
hanz@ Beilish is a skilled manipulator yes, but he is also has a thing for sansa. This sort of weird/creepy hybrid of paternal affection for her would make sense that he wouldn't want to put her in harms way. ANd putting a fake arya (yes my bad) is fitting with the fact that he is always a step ahead of others. I don't always hate the changes the show makes. But they are also rushing the crap out of it. Oh hey rob you wanna help me save sansa? oh okay cool. seems rushed tbh and I get what they are saying that if the show takes too long too finish people will start losing interest. But maybe we are already losing interest?
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What's your actual stance here? Do you think Dany is a decent character or what LOL>
She's mostly fine, but the main thing is the criticisms of her tend to be staggeringly out of their way dumb. People get really twisted up about her for no reason and go careening off the tracks logic wise.
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It's not Dany's fault that her plot gets seriously meandering at points (especially in the books, fun fact at least 90% of Dany's book 5 plot was condensed into about eight minutes in season 5)
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! This episode started strong with the reunion that pretty accurately portrayed Jon and Sansa's awkward relationship and the potential hostility between Brienne and the remnants of Team Stannis. It gradually slid downhill from there. The Theon scene was okish, the Lannister plot is a painfully obvious way of playing their two enemies against each other, and I still hate Daenerys and everything about her story. Tyrion clearly expects Yunkai and Astapor to renege on their ends of the deal but it's only meant to buy time; still, it's unclear to basically everyone at that meeting how he would supposedly enforce the slavery ban in 7 years given their relative strengths. Baelish continues to make no sense. He makes up a clearly bullshit story (Boltons in the Vale? At least put some fucking effort into it), accuses the person who knows he's lying of being complicit, hinges it on the judgement of an unhinged boy who for some reason trusts Baelish, who he barely knows, more than the famed knight who's been training him as his ward, all to what? Secure Royce's loyalty? Yeah, that totally happened. It's an empty demonstration of power at best and far too unsubtle for Littlefinger.
! And Dany. Fucking Daenerys. The show has taken great pains to make sure she's continuously victorious through various coups, leaving instability and death in her wake while almost never dealing with the consequences. In the books, it works, because she evolves from deus ex machina, to dragons ex machina, to actual military strategy, to real diplomacy. Meereen is where her actions catch up to her as all the people she's pissed off start to unite against her, forcing genuine introspection and the formation of an actual plan for her future. The show takes many of those elements, but instead of giving her character growth they've chosen to give Dany as many falsely profound speeches and "serene/badass looks as she torches everything" instances as possible. Think about your future, girl! What the hell do you expect to do with 200,000 Dothraki people now following you because of your messiah complex? You can't take them to Westeros; the whole Seven Kingdoms will resist you and your barbarian horde. You barely know about the potential conflict in Slaver's Bay, and you can't use a horde of foreigners to root out a terrorist insurrection without harming the civilians you're claiming to protect. The show runners just resort to this crap because they use episode 4 as a miniature climax and they like to recycle plots.
! And don't give me that shit about this was the only way. The writers CHOSE to create this scenario by diverging from the books, where Dany has Drogon by her side when she encounters the Dothraki. If you're going to change things, you better damn well make sure you have an actual plan. Then again, we've seen the failures to do this with previous invented subplots.
! I guess that explains the show's obsession with Dany the badass conqueror: it's the character D&D most identify with and who best encapsulates what they bring to the table.