I get the feeling that if Oda would send Sanji away from the manga for good, some fans would be ok with it? Is it because he is a pervert?:ninja:
He is one of the original members in the crew and some of you show such low interest in his backstory?
I get the feeling that if Oda would send Sanji away from the manga for good, some fans would be ok with it? Is it because he is a pervert?:ninja:
He is one of the original members in the crew and some of you show such low interest in his backstory?
Thanks for the awesome info Sandman!
Is it just me or is the Nekomamushi song… so-bad-it's-hilarious
@uniaka:
I get the feeling that if Oda would send Sanji away from the manga for good, some fans would be ok with it? Is it because he is a pervert?:ninja:
He is one of the original members in the crew and some of you show such low interest in his backstory?
Its mostly that hes been a terrible character for the better part of a decade now mostly just serving as buttmonkey in a lot of bad pervert jokes. That used to be balanced out with him being badass but… it's been a while.
Its mostly that hes been a terrible character for the better part of a decade now mostly just serving as buttmonkey in a lot of bad pervert jokes. That used to be balanced out with him being badass but… it's been a while.
yeah he's been so underwhelming after time skip.
I don't get why you guys don't want actual interesting shit to happen, the fact that he is son of a Tenryuubito or the WG dude is a really cool new wrinkle to the story, the silly reasoning for the bounty saying only alive is what you guys should be wishing not to happen, I love Oda sillyness but it doesn't have to be that way all the time.
I'm excited for him and the others getting some more attention since they didnt appear for most of Dressrosa.
don't get me wrong.i don't think learning about his past is useless or pandering to sanji fans,but i hope it's not the prince of somewhere/tenryuubito stuff that people think it is.i hope that his being royalty doesn't become the focal point of the story.i mean,when has that stuff ever been important?robin was important in el because of poneglyph reading abilites rather than being olivia's daughter.
and i sure hope he didn't left the crew to go back to his royal home.that would be a little uncool,imo,to leave the crew for royal business,whatever that is.
just have to wait and see.
and speaking of crew members whose past we don't know about,sanji is not the only one.i think zoro is a prime example.
we don't know who zoro was before he came to kuina's dojo.
why was he challenging everyone to a fight?why was he,a kid,roaming by himself?who are the roronas'?
if you think about it,only few of the crew have a full name.luffy,zoro,chopper(though it was given to him by hiruluk)and robin.
in these cases,the only ones whose parents we don't know about are zoro.
we know somewhat about franky,that his father was a pirate,and that he left him,but not the exact details.
same with brook.he said he was in his country's militia,but we don't know which country.
the others are pretty much a known factor.and,we'll definitely learn more about luffy's past,so that doesn't count.
Its mostly that hes been a terrible character for the better part of a decade now mostly just serving as buttmonkey in a lot of bad pervert jokes. That used to be balanced out with him being badass but… it's been a while.
I think when he enters the battle with Vergo and Doflamingo he is badass, show up out of nothing and kicks the villain. Even Vergo at that point was untouched and kicking ass.
Even Doflamingo if not hurt by him, he got serious ( face he made only when law defeated Vergo or when law mentioned Kaidou).
He had that superhero vibe that shows up to rescue everyone from the villain.
in these cases,the only ones whose parents we don't know about are zoro.
We don't know about Nami, Sanji, Chopper, Franky, Brook's or Jinbe's either. We know their adoptive mentor figures/adoptive parents, or a little one sentence detail, but we don't know their actual parents.
If you're going to count Zeff for Sanji, or Hiriluk for Chopper, then you might as well count Zoro's mentor and Kuina as his family.
I'm not dismissing the adoptive parents thing at all. Very clearly a consistent message Oda sends is love is stronger than blood, so there's zero dismissing the important people in their lives, but… if we're going to make a point of "we don't know the real full story about this person's past" then that extends to most of the crew.
@joekido:
Wow, most of what you wrote is completely off the point. First off, I half saw Garp being Luffy's grandfather. I never saw Dragon as Luffy's father. When it comes to predicating, sometimes I lay my thoughts here or I keep it to myself. Most of my predications before the tome skip is wrong, in fact starting in chapter 490 when the story arrived at the Red Line; I decided to stop making wild guesses
Now, you may wonder what I got right? It's not like I was all "It's going to happen!", instead it's me reading the story silently without making wild guesses, and starting at the New World; the story got more obvious that you could see it miles away however that does not mean I'm always accurate, I even though the Zou arc was going to be a "Lost and Found" arc where Luffy must search for his missing crews.
Here is some what I got right so far:
Ninjas: Before Zou, I always wondered if we are going to see ninjas in Wano Country. And then we are told that there are ninjas in this story.
Impel Down: When we saw Crocodile and Daz Bones; it was obvious that they were going to escape with Luffy
Zou: I saw people thinking it's going to be an animal island and I was starting to think it can be possible. And when we arrived, yep; we are pretty much correct
Dressrosa: Most of Dressrosa was predictable; but I still got some parts wrong. Some what I figured that the toys were Devil Fruit made and the Toy Soilder was Kyros, Corazon a male, Doflamingo faking resignation. However what I did not expect to see was Gear 4.So no, I was not always accurate, I still make wrong guess and still faced the unexpected, my point here is that Sanji being a royalty or is connected to it is a high possibility.
So, in summary, you either figured out some really short term things or piggybacked on other people's theories?
I'm not sure how this equates to Oda having become uber-predictable…?
We don't know about Nami, Sanji, Chopper, Franky, Brook's or Jinbe's either. We know their adoptive mentor figures/adoptive parents, or a little one sentence detail, but we don't know their actual parents.
If you're going to count Zeff for Sanji, or Hiriluk for Chopper, then you might as well count Zoro's mentor and Kuina as his family.
I'm not dismissing the adoptive parents thing at all. Very clearly a consistent message Oda sends is love is stronger than blood, so there's zero dismissing the important people in their lives, but… if we're going to make a point of "we don't know the real full story about this person's past" then that extends to most of the crew.
i think you misunderstood me.
"if you think about it,only few of the crew have a full name.luffy,zoro,chopper(though it was given to him by hiruluk)and robin.in these cases,the only ones whose parents we don't know about are zoro."
i was talking about the crew members who have a family name.i don't think having a family name is necessarily important,but it always bugged me.
also,i don't think nami's parents will be important,and they are probably dead.nami was pretty much raised by bellemere since she was a baby,so i doubt we need to go even farther back and know who her parents were.
i'm pretty sure chopper's parents were some reindeers who abandoned him.don't see how they are important,except showing that chopper has abandonment issues.
and i already said franky and brook were also examples of unknown past
Can't help but remember a time when Kishimoto announced "Sakura's year" during 2nd part of Naruto.
It's Oda, I know, but still. Gotta be at least a little sceptical. Oh I know Sanji will have a lot of focus and more importance than so far in NW, but it may not be everything Sanji fans expect or hope it to be.
Maybe more people would be excited if he said it's going to be the year of Mr Prince
@Long:
But that eliminates Thriller Bark and Saobody, I mean he wasnt bad in those arcs, I mean yeah he didnt get a good enemy/fight in thriller bark and zoro was able to take all the damage in that awesome scene, yet I think he actually outshined zoro in sabaody. Unless you were giving an estimation I thought the general consensus was he was good up until the time skip where he became annoying.
Of course im new here so I dont understand the SanJay part
Thriller Bark, you mean the one where his dramatic historic connection to Absalom was… wanting a Devil Fruit he could perv with then handily winning a short battle that eventually Nami had to win for him? That Thriller Bark?
Then the nothing story of Sabaody where the entire crew ate fail pie? The coolest thing he did on Sabaody was smoke three cigarettes at once.
And that Zoro getting lost joke. That was amazing. But nothing compared to secret agent prince huntsman chivalrous poster boy Sanji Buscemi.
Can't help but remember a time when Kishimoto announced "Sakura's year" during 2nd part of Naruto.
It's Oda, I know, but still. Gotta be at least a little sceptical. Oh I know Sanji will have a lot of focus and more importance than so far in NW, but it may not be everything Sanji fans expect or hope it to be.
Like this?
Let's say CP0 capture Sanji and it's Robin vs CP9 all over again. Still, things will turn fine in the end.
Or that Sanji's father is some evil hated character?
So, do you guys remember when Kishimoto said 1974 would be Kakashi's year and that hasn't happened yet? I hope Oda is better in delivering what he promises.
Can't help but remember a time when Kishimoto announced "Sakura's year" during 2nd part of Naruto.
It's Oda, I know, but still. Gotta be at least a little sceptical. Oh I know Sanji will have a lot of focus and more importance than so far in NW, but it may not be everything Sanji fans expect or hope it to be.
This is what years of Sanji getting shorter end of stick do to fan.
the problem with the whole noble theory is that it doesn't really make sense given the rules of the onepiece world..if he is just the son of A noble,he would be nowhere near as important as to earn a "only alive" bounty,and if heis the son of a tenryuubito doesn't work either because as we saw with doflamingo,the tenbryuubito that leave marijoa for good are considered traitors and not world nobles anymore..and considerind they might spill soe of marijoa secrets away,they would actually want them MORE dead than normal.
the only position that would have both the relevance and power and none of the rules would be a son of a gorosei or an high WG officer..but at that point you have to ask what said guy was doing in the north blue and how sanji ended up working on a ship on east blue
is it 100% confirmed that he talked about "birth" and not something more general ?..it sounds strange that he would reveal so much of the sanji mistery already
Will there ever be a ''wanted only dead'' guy in One piece? A guy that is so nasty, you just kill him first then ask questions. Someone that everyone wants dead.
@uniaka:
Will there ever be a ''wanted only dead'' guy in One piece? A guy that is so nasty, you just kill him first then ask questions. Someone that everyone wants dead.
That doesn't make much sense, because one of the appeals of a bounty is that you can just give info that helps catch or kill the wanted guy and still get the bounty. With only dead you're forced to do the dirty work.
Sanjay is okay.
As seen in this thread with Greg and Robby posts, it won't matter how much badass stuff Sanji do, people will just pretend it didn't happen. Then they will proceed to twist everything else he does into a bad light and throw terms which they don't even understand like hype tool.
Oda has been shitting on Sanji ever since Thriller Bark and he expect his fans to forgive him and move on? Hell no, what is done is done. Oda probably thought it was a good idea to turn sanji into a gag character ever since his first bounty along the duval joke. The "year of Sanji" sound to me like the year of Kakashi. This is what Sanji has been reduced to, a third rate character like Kakashi.
Well, pretty much every member of the crew has been detoriaring since the timeskip but Sanji take the cake.
it won't matter how much badass stuff Sanji do, people will just pretend it didn't happen. Then they will proceed to twist everything else he does into a bad light and throw terms which they don't even understand like hype tool.
They've been doing that to most of the strawhats. @Martine:
Oda probably thought it was a good idea to turn sanji into a gag character ever since his first bounty along the duval joke. The "year of Sanji" sound to me like the year of Kakashi. This is what Sanji has been reduced to, a third rate character like Kakashi.
Oh please. You're exaggerating to an absurd degree, He's not a "gag" character & he hasn't been "shitted on". Kakashi got his spotlight, but I don't know why you're comparing two different authors to begin with.
Well, pretty much every member of the crew has been detoriaring since the timeskip but Sanji take the cake.
It's pretty easy to make bogus claims without actually having anything to back them up.
the problem with the whole noble theory is that it doesn't really make sense given the rules of the onepiece world..if he is just the son of A noble,he would be nowhere near as important as to earn a "only alive" bounty,and if heis the son of a tenryuubito doesn't work either because as we saw with doflamingo,the tenbryuubito that leave marijoa for good are considered traitors and not world nobles anymore..and considerind they might spill soe of marijoa secrets away,they would actually want them MORE dead than normal.
the only position that would have both the relevance and power and none of the rules would be a son of a gorosei or an high WG officer..but at that point you have to ask what said guy was doing in the north blue and how sanji ended up working on a ship on east blueis it 100% confirmed that he talked about "birth" and not something more general ?..it sounds strange that he would reveal so much of the sanji mistery already
What kind of logic is that?
If he was the heir of an allied kingdom of the WG, that would enough reason to keep him alive.
Bloodline logic rules the world of OP.
I'm quite excited by that news.
Not because "he needs to be "redeemed" or because "he became a gag character". I disagree with those opinions completely.
I'm fine with his character post timeskip, especially after what we've seen in Punk Hazard (helping Kinemon and saving the G5 marines).
Anyway, I don't know what his origin will be but whatever it is I don't think it will be a sad past.
Oda has been shitting on Sanji ever since Thriller Bark and he expect his fans to forgive him and move on? Hell no, what is done is done. Oda probably thought it was a good idea to turn sanji into a gag character ever since his first bounty along the duval joke. The "year of Sanji" sound to me like the year of Kakashi. This is what Sanji has been reduced to, a third rate character like Kakashi.
Well, pretty much every member of the crew has been detoriaring since the timeskip but Sanji take the cake.
For a "gag character", Sanji was fine during his brief time in the Dressrosa arc.
The whole pervert joke was only done with Viola (and only around 2 times). Aside from those, there was barely any comedy involving him at all and he even took leadership of one half of the crew. Heck, even Viola ended up liking him despite knowing the kind of guy he was.
It was not worse than, say, getting tricked by Bentham all the way back in Alabasta.
Really, Sanji's last bad moment was oogling himself in Nami's body. After that he actually showed plenty of competence by using Nami's body to find Kin'emon's torso, saving Tashigi from Vergo and leading the G-5 Marines.
Sanji just took out a third tier officer of a Yonko with one-shot not long ago for fuck's sake.
As seen in this thread with Greg and Robby posts, it won't matter how much badass stuff Sanji do, people will just pretend it didn't happen. Then they will proceed to twist everything else he does into a bad light and throw terms which they don't even understand like hype tool.
Its not that the cool stuff didn't happen. It's just that its ridiculously overshadowed by the stupid jokes. Zoro fights and beat up Jabra! But only after endangering Robin's life because he was unwilling to fight Califa. He got a terrible zombie on Thriller bark and his fight with Absalom (which he didn't finish) was mostly over wanting to be a peeping tom perv.
Luffy trains with Rayleigh and Zoro gets Mihawk… Sanji gets to run from crossdressers that want to put him in a dress. On Fishman Island, Zoro gets to one-shot the big bad, Sanji gets to... nosebleed to death. On Thriller Bark, Zoro one shots Monet without even attacking her... Sanji jobbers to Vergo, breaks his leg, and gropes Nami's body. Oh, but Sanji is helping protect those kids! ... so he can show off for Nami.
Sanji gets to kick off the head of a pacifista!... That Zoro also cut in half. Sanji gets to tangle with Doflamingo for 10 seconds and do okay! Luffy gets to fight Dofla for an hour and actually beat him, while Zoro gets to tangle with an admiral and be unphased. Etc. etc.
Sanji has his moments, but as one of the powerhouses of the group he hasn't had a solid win in a loooong time, he hasn't really gotten to be the strategist since what, turning the tidal pools on at Water 7? And in the meantime his pervert gag has been overplayed for a long time. For a good while he's been used as the jobber to show "this enemy is strong" so that the badguy looks competent, but then Sanji has to run so that the baddy can lose to someone stronger than him like Luffy or Law.
Sanji just took out a third tier officer of a Yonko with one-shot not long ago for fuck's sake.
Yes, splitting him off with the weak portion of the crew where he's not competing with Luffy and Zoro is the best thing Oda's done for him in a long time. It lets him be the strong member of the group that everyone else is depending on again.
But if the entire crew had gone to ZOu? Make no mistake, there would have been a perversion joke in there instead, he'd be hitting on the animal women or one of the yonkou officers would be a woman, or he'd have fought Jack and lost just to hype him up for Luffy's eventual fight with him. That's been his role for way too long. He's turned into the Yamcha of the group.
Criticizing Oda for something that is not even out yet is really silly, especially if he proves these complaints wrong in the future. Remember when people spent months posting complaints about Fujitora and then they were proven wrong?
Its not that the cool stuff didn't happen. It's just that its ridiculously overshadowed by the stupid jokes. Zoro fights and beat up Jabra! But only after endangering Robin's life because he was unwilling to fight Califa. He got a terrible zombie on Thriller bark and his fight with Absalom (which he didn't finish) was mostly over wanting to be a peeping tom perv.
Luffy trains with Rayleigh and Zoro gets Mihawk… Sanji gets to run from crossdressers that want to put him in a dress. On Fishman Island, Zoro gets to one-shot the big bad, Sanji gets to... nosebleed to death. On Thriller Bark, Zoro one shots Monet without even attacking her... Sanji jobbers to Vergo, breaks his leg, and gropes Nami's body. Oh, but Sanji is helping protect those kids! ... so he can show off for Nami.
Sanji gets to kick off the head of a pacifista!... That Zoro also cut in half. Sanji gets to tangle with Doflamingo for 10 seconds and do okay! Luffy gets to fight Dofla for an hour and actually beat him, while Zoro gets to tangle with an admiral and be unphased. Etc. etc.
Sanji has his moments, but as one of the powerhouses of the group he hasn't had a solid win in a loooong time, he hasn't really gotten to be the strategist since what, turning the tidal pools on at Water 7? And in the meantime his pervert gag has been overplayed for a long time. For a good while he's been used as the jobber to show "this enemy is strong" so that the badguy looks competent, but then Sanji has to run so that the baddy can lose to someone stronger than him like Luffy or Law.
Yes, splitting him off with the weak portion of the crew where he's not competing with Luffy and Zoro is the best thing Oda's done for him in a long time. It lets him be the strong member of the group that everyone else is depending on again.
But if the entire crew had gone to ZOu? Make no mistake, there would have been a perversion joke in there instead, he'd be hitting on the animal women or one of the yonkou officers would be a woman, or he'd have fought Jack and lost just to hype him up for Luffy's eventual fight with him. That's been his role for way too long. He's turned into the Yamcha of the group.
I wouldn't go as far as calling him the Yamcha as he didn't lose a fight against a lowly mook.
He's more like Piccolo. Skilled on his own, but chokes against the main antagonists (which, in a way, describes pretty much everyone but Goku).
Sanji just took out a third tier officer of a Yonko with one-shot not long ago for fuck's sake.
You mean the shit-tier?
At this point in the story, it would take a lot more than some show off with a poor man's farm animal zoan to impress me.
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I wouldn't go as far as calling him the Yamcha as he didn't lose a fight against a lowly mook.
If there is Yamcha in OP, it's Sanji alright.
You mean the shit-tier?
At this point in the story, it would take a lot more than some show off with a poor man's farm animal zoan to impress me.
Well, he was the closest thing Jack had to a second-in-command at the time.
Although he's less officer and more (Elite) Mook commander.
As seen in this thread with Greg and Robby posts, it won't matter how much badass stuff Sanji do, people will just pretend it didn't happen. Then they will proceed to twist everything else he does into a bad light and throw terms which they don't even understand like hype tool.
Every Sanji fan abroad and pretty much EVERY Japanese fan is dying to see badass Sanji make a return. We just don't suffer any delusions that he's been used as anything other than a punchline for this long.
I'm certain that there will be a very unexpected and hilarious twist to his birth but I also believe Oda is going to deliver. Look, when Sanji left with the crew, it was exactly that.
But he hasn't left with the crew this time. This reeks of his old solo missions which, admittedly, we're getting tired at the time. Oda waited just long enough for us to be chomping at the bit for that side of Sanji.
What kind of logic is that?
If he was the heir of an allied kingdom of the WG, that would enough reason to keep him alive.
Bloodline logic rules the world of OP.
none of the normal noble we have seen so far are so important as to influence the WG itself (that is the one who makes the bounty through the marines)
only guys who have that kind of influence are the tenryuubito..if he was the son of a noble of kingdom part of the WG, I think he would still have the dead or alive sign on his bounty
Can't help but remember a time when Kishimoto announced "Sakura's year" during 2nd part of Naruto.
It's Oda, I know, but still. Gotta be at least a little sceptical. Oh I know Sanji will have a lot of focus and more importance than so far in NW, but it may not be everything Sanji fans expect or hope it to be.
Even Sanji doesn't get treated as badly as Sakura, who had her entire character dragged out back and assassinated.
It's just that its ridiculously overshadowed by the stupid jokes. Zoro fights and beat up Jabra! But only after endangering Robin's life because he was unwilling to fight Califa. He got a terrible zombie on Thriller bark and his fight with Absalom (which he didn't finish) was mostly over wanting to be a peeping tom perv.
Sanji's fight with Kalifa wasn't a joke. He didn't want to endanger Robin's life. It's just as Oda said, he legitimately couldn't bring himself to strike her. It's not that he didn't want to. I don't see how his Zombie was worse than the others & Sanji's fight with Absalom wasn't mostly over the DF. He was annoyed over it, but only mentioned it once in the fight. He then stated that he didn't care about it. He fought him over Nami & Robin.
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Luffy trains with Rayleigh and Zoro gets Mihawk… Sanji gets to run from crossdressers that want to put him in a dress.
Why does being a crossdresser have come with a negative connotation? Ivankov is legendary in his own right. Attempting to put him in a dress was part of his training. It was a challenge. In the end he got much stronger, improved his cooking & learned Haki just as Luffy & Zoro.
On Fishman Island Sanji gets to… nosebleed to death.
Sanji had one nosebleed on FI & after he recovered he didn't do it again. He had his moment of defeating Wadatsumi. If you're going to mention one bad moment that happened to him that arc, mention everyone else's. Zoro was captured & held in a cage.
Sanji jobbers to Vergo, breaks his leg
Sanji didn't job. The fight was inconclusive. His leg was fractured, not broken. As I mentioned previously, if you're going to point out a bad moment for him, point out everyone else's. It's not like everyone coasted through.
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Sanji gets to kick off the head of a pacifista!… That Zoro also cut in half.
Why downplay a good moment for him? Both showed that they could take down a pacifista in one hit. They had to do it at the same time otherwise one of them wouldn't have been able to show off how strong they'd become.
Sanji gets to tangle with Doflamingo for 10 seconds and do okay! Luffy gets to fight Dofla for an hour and actually beat him
Doffy was Luffy's fight to begin with. Don't forget what Doffy did to Luffy in their first fight.
Zoro gets to tangle with an admiral and be unphased.
Fuji & Zoro barely did anything with eachother.
Sanji has his moments, but as one of the powerhouses of the group he hasn't had a solid win in a loooong time
Wadatsumi.
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But if the entire crew had gone to ZOu? Make no mistake, there would have been a perversion joke in there instead
Everyone retains their gags.
he'd be hitting on the animal women or one of the yonkou officers would be a woman,
Sanji isn't attracted to animals as far as I could tell. Oda wouldn't change the genders of built up antagonists just to spite Sanji.
he'd have fought Jack and lost just to hype him up for Luffy's eventual fight with him.
Jack wasn't even there. Jack doesn't even need Sanji for hype.
Sanji wouldn't even be in my top five characters if I had to make a list, I'm a fan of his but i'm far from a fanboy.
I legitimately just don't see what's wrong with him post skip, he's been really cool imo.
But if the entire crew had gone to ZOu? Make no mistake, there would have been a perversion joke in there instead, he'd be hitting on the animal women or one of the yonkou officers would be a woman, or he'd have fought Jack and lost just to hype him up for Luffy's eventual fight with him. That's been his role for way too long. He's turned into the Yamcha of the group.
I feel like that's a huge exaggeration. Before DoFlamingo (where his entrance actually saved Brook and the rest, despite the loss), the only time where Sanji served that role was in Skypiea, where everyone was defeated by Enel. In Punk Hazard (where Kinemon would be left behind and die if not for Sanji and his efforts), the fight vs Vergo was interrupted, but if he wasn't there Tashigi and the rest of G-5 were goners, too. Not to mention he made Viola an ally before he left Dressrosa.
He needs a major victory in a 1vs1, but i think Oda has been holding him off on purpose since he had this Sanji arc planned.
Seriously, if Sanji was a Yamcha, where exactly the rest of the Curlyhats stand at this point?! Are they Lunchies? And what about Robin who doesn't get a fight or do anything relevant in ages?
I actually have a big problem with the way the whole crew has been treated after the timeskip, but i digress.
But he hasn't left with the crew this time. This reeks of his old solo missions which, admittedly, we're getting tired at the time. Oda waited just long enough for us to be chomping at the bit for that side of Sanji.
I can agree with that. I remember an Oda interview, sometime post-Enies Lobby i believe, where he said he wanted a character like Sanji to have not only a large female fanbase, but a huge male one as well, so he didn't want him to become "too perfect" - or something along these lines.
And at one point he was very close to that, as he's not only one of the three powerhouses of the crew, but he was also often a strategist, much smarter than Luffy and Zoro, not to mention being a master cook on the top of being a fighter. Maybe that's why Oda had been "dumbing him down" ever since.
Sanji's fight with Kalifa wasn't a joke. He didn't want to endanger Robin's life. It's just as Oda said, he legitimately couldn't bring himself to strike her. It's not that he didn't want to.
He still put people's lives in danger because he couldn't bring himself past a self-imposed limit. Usopp is a coward and runs away from his fights because he can't deal with them physically, but he still finds a way to make it work eventually. Sanji's solution was to lose and be made helpless in a moment of crisis, rather than going "Well, I know my own weakness, exactly the same as I've been telling Usopp, better switch this up." and backtracking. Or he could have craftily attacked the room around her or something. Instead "I guess I'll try to fight instead of switching off, and get destroyed."
I don't see how his Zombie was worse than the others & Sanji's fight with Absalom wasn't mostly over the DF. He was annoyed over it, but only mentioned it once in the fight. He then stated that he didn't care about it. He fought him over Nami & Robin.
It was thrown into a random garbage dog zombie, that couldn't use his main attack style at all, even Moria said it was a junk zombie since Sanji was "a guy with no bounty." Meanwhile, Luffy got a legendary giant monster, Brook got legendary Samurai. Zoro's was doofy looking too, but he was at least said to be a competant renknowned fighter zombie and was the best Moria had on hand.
Why does being a crossdresser have come with a negative connotation? Ivankov is legendary in his own right. Attempting to put him in a dress was part of his training. It was a challenge
Because Oda played it as pure gag with ugly men that seemed to be trying to get Sanji romantically and to put him in a dreess. It wasn't treated as serious, it was treated as "Sanji has to run for two years nonstop, develop a complex, or else he'll be raped… and continue to have Nam flashbacks after the timeskip."
Nothing wrong with crossdressers or transexuals. But its not what SANJI wants to deal with. In that scenario, Oda played it as a pure negative for Sanji, and used uuugly, monstrous looking unshaven men for it. (Even though Ivankov can effortlessly turn them into real women that look nice.) And its a gag that followed him after the timeskip.
. In the end he got much stronger, improved his cooking & learned Haki just as Luffy & Zoro.
The cooking has yet to come up and he has yet to win an important fight.
Sanji had one nosebleed on FI & after he recovered he didn't do it again.
He had several, the last of which got the whole crew in trouble, nearly killed him, to the degree of being a major plot point. And then it did comes up again on Dresserossa when he met Violet.
He had his moment of defeating Wadatsumi.
Everyone got a token fight on FI, and Jinbe helped there.
If you're going to mention one bad moment that happened to him that arc, mention everyone else's. Zoro was captured & held in a cage.
And then Zoro got out with little fanfare or distress.
Sanji didn't job. The fight was inconclusive. His leg was fractured, not broken.
He was left unable to fight, and had to run away, leaving SMoker and Law to deal with the enemy he couldn't beat. It wasn't inconclusive, it was a straight up loss with the worst injury we've seen him take in the series.
As I mentioned previously, if you're going to point out a bad moment for him, point out everyone else's. It's not like everyone coasted through.
No one else gets shit on anywhere near as much.
Why downplay a good moment for him?
Because its one of the only ones he's had, and it was shared. He didn't get that honor all to himself.
They had to do it at the same time otherwise one of them wouldn't have been able to show off how strong they'd become.
Oda could have easily tossed in three Pacifistas instead of two. He instead split the kill to show those two were equals.
Doffy was Luffy's fight to begin with. Don't forget what Doffy did to Luffy in their first fight.
And Luffy got back up and beat him down. Sanji just lost the skirmish and ran. He was used as a hype tool. Just because the big boss is Luffy's to beat doesn't mean the others can't put up a good showing, or at least take out a lieutenant.
Fuji & Zoro barely did anything with eachother.
An admiral. Did nothing to Zoro. That's exactly the point. They clashed, and then no one was left wrecked.
Wadatsumi.
Shared victory. During a time where every strawhat got an easy peasy fight two page fight to show off their timeskipness.
Everyone retains their gags. Sanji isn't attracted to animals as far as I could tell. Oda wouldn't change the genders of built up antagonists just to spite Sanji.
Sure he would. He did it with Kalifa. And he had to force Sanji out of the room when Monet was attacking his teammates. WHO SANJI FLIRTED WITH, followed immediatley by a speech from Sanji of "Yeah, I can't do that fight at all." (SO I guess maybe he learned his lesson from Kalifa… but if Zoro hadn't already been fighting her, but Nami and Robin were still getting murdered, he would have just gotten into the room and proceeded to... not be able to do anything?) It only makes matters worse that Zoro displayed some of the same sexism in that fight and Tashigi had to show up.
Jack wasn't even there. Jack doesn't even need Sanji for hype.
Yes, because Oda used an admiral and fleet admiral, and an entire country of badass warriors fighting him for five days straight falling to him instead to hype him up. And because Sanji is on his own right now, so he's allowed to be decent. Under a different circumstance they'd have all arrived on the island and he would have been the one to get in a fight and lose to hype them up.
Seriously, if Sanji was a Yamcha, where exactly the rest of the Curlyhats stand at this poin
Vegeta or Piccollo or Krillin or Gohan. They get to win a fight occasionally and don't get used as pure fodder to make the big bad seem tougher for others to deal with.
The cooking has yet to come up yet and he's yet to win an inportant fight.
The cooking came up at the end of Punk Hazard.
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@Robby:
**He was left unable to fight, and had to run away,**leaving SMoker and Law to deal with the enemy he couldn't beat. It wasn't inconclusive, it was a straight up loss with the worst injury we've seen him take in the series.
What? Sanji fought through the fractured leg. Vergo is the one that ran away once he realized Law had entered the SAD manufacturing room. The fight was absolutely inconclusive. Sure, it wasn't looking good for Sanji, but he didn't run away and he's certainly fought through worse (broken ribs vs. Gin) before.
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The cooking came up at the end of Punk Hazard.
What? Sanji fought through the fractured leg. Vergo is the one that ran away once he realized Law had entered the SAD manufacturing room. The fight was absolutely inconclusive. Sure, it wasn't looking good for Sanji, but he didn't run away and he's certainly fought through worse (broken ribs vs. Gin) before.
It's been a while since I read it. I'll take your word on it. I just remember Sanji getting his damn leg broken and being unable to do anything, and then Vergo not being hindered in any way shape or form at that point.
It's been a while since I read it. I'll take your word on it. I just remember Sanji getting his damn leg broken and being unable to do anything, and then Vergo not being hindered in any way shape or form at that point.
I edited the scans into my last post.
I'm not really bothered by the Sanji business. Maybe if it continued on as it had been for a while but right now, I don't mind. Losing to Vergo was a one-off thing and fighting Doflamingo was erstwhile excuse to get him started on his separate adventure with the Swirlyhats. Yeah, he's got jobbed twice in a row, but not often otherwise. Pretty sure it will happen again some time later, but not until after he gets in some good licks with some other strong dudes.
And really, Oda has always like putting the Straw Hats in silly situations. He went pretty far with Sanji and the Okamas, but has since went on to more fresh comedic material once that started to things like giving him a half-serious-half-comic relationship with Viola.
The only thing I strongly agree on is that he hasn't had a real good 1 on 1 since Jyabura. Some good moments here and there, but that's it. I don't really subscribe to the whole "tier" business so I really don't care about who should be stronger than who. I always thought Chopper was a powerhouse early on (way back in the day), but it's clear he's not going to get many major fights at all and play a far more comedic or intellectual/moral role than anything. I'm fine with that.
can agree with that. I remember an Oda interview, sometime post-Enies Lobby i believe, where he said he wanted a character like Sanji to have not only a large female fanbase, but a huge male one as well, so he didn't want him to become "too perfect" - or something along these lines.
And at one point he was very close to that, as he's not only one of the three powerhouses of the crew, but he was also often a strategist, much smarter than Luffy and Zoro, not to mention being a master cook on the top of being a fighter. Maybe that's why Oda had been "dumbing him down" ever since.
Yeah, I sort of saw it that way myself. Sanji has clearly been taken down a more comedic route since Enies Lobby, no doubt there. I also think that between him and Zoro, he felt that the crew shouldn't have more than one "Mr Cool" badass. Moreso now after Franky joined who also does it similarly but with more outlandish flair.
I have mixed feelings about it because I generally preferred the comedic touch myself, but I think it was balanced better in the past. Lately I think it's started to balance off again.
Super long Sanji defense force post. Typing from my phone, please don't mind the errors.
While I certainly agree Sanji has gotten the short end of the stick as far as the monster trio is concerned I just don't look at his situation as harshly as others.
Zoro gets Warlord Mihawk yeah, but he apparently had rest and down time and then came back with a missing eye. Mihawk was the guy who didn't get a chance with White Beard and had to "settle" for Vista. I don't say that as a true knock to Vista or Mihawk but I feel like I'm the only one who remembers the dissapointment in Mihawk during the war. I understand why from a story perspective exactly why Mihawk did not get to go toe to toe with Newgate in a similar fashion to what we have imagined with Shanks. The understanding is that Luffy's goal and Zoro's goal continue to be miles apart, just like Mihawk stated in the East Blue and during that time the story was not ready for Mihawk to show his all.
Luffy got 1.5 years with Rayleigh to learn the basics of Haki and was then left to his own devices. I'd argue Zoro got the better deal there. Still doesn't mean much when from my perception, Luffy is still far and away the undisputed king on the sunny.
Sanji gets Ivankov and an island full of martial arts masters. Ivankov was the right hand man of Dragon the most wanted man in the world right? At least before his capture. I forget what Ivankov said to Kuma during the war but his words and actions more or less gave the impression that he was bit higher on the ladder than Kuma was. At least when they were together in the revolutionary army. I don't look down on him at all. Sanji had to "survive" the whole time, gag or not, and once he learned about the actual cooking upgrades he fully embraced his 2 year challenge. Then he came back and could fly. Better than a poked out eye I'd say.
Now then with that being said, I don't really look at the eye thing as being some major weakness or a knock to Zoro at all, I remember people being legitimately upset that Zoro now had worse depth perception. All I could do was roll my eyes. I mean Zoro has had the most spotless record since the Time Skip. His fighting style alone means that he takes and gives hits differently than Luffy and Sanji. Zoro can block Hodi's or a Dragon's teeth with His swords. Luffy can not, he couldn't block bellamies Haki punch with his own Haki. Of course at that point in the story it gave us a little bit of drama but there are many among us who took that scene to say that Luff's training wasn't enough. Then came gear 4th and even Doffy couldn't break through that.
Vergo and the fractured leg. The strongest enemy on the island and Sanji gets the first go. He gets is leg fractured but he kept going and it was only made mentioned once since then. If it's anything like real life(and it's not) the bone is actually stronger than it was before. It's only stronger now cause Sanji lived on and got RPG experience. I know Sanji acknowledged himself that that fight could have ended badly but even after trying to block a hit that he couldn't block, Vergo never got a clean hit on Sanji While Sanji at the very least proved to be faster and actually sent him flying and bleeding twice. Sure Vergo just kept Terminatoring his way back but as a Vice Admiral and Doffy's most important crew mate, can't Vergo just be that good? Plus knowing what we know now, it makes perfect sense why Law would be the one to defeat him, still I'm a little unsatisfied with Vergo just assuming his Haki would protect him. It didn't even appear as if Law roughed him up and just left him for the explosion.
Sanji goes after Doflamingo before Luffy does and at that point in the entire story the only times we've seen Doffy take a "hit" was during Croc's sand tornado and Law giving him the shaving cut. I did think at the time Sanji was going to get a real hit in but I should have known. It wasn't time in the story for that, and it was only Luffy that was ever going to get to do it. I know Sanji lit both is legs at once, first time ever, people argue he had nothing left, well of course he does its just not time in the story for that stuff yet. At the very least Doffy gave him some acknowledgment on his power and resorted to capturing him with the same move he seemingly captured Sanji's White Beard equivalent with. Not only that but the ONLY character in the entire series to escape from such a thing was Luffy, during the absolute final, island splitting, super punch climax of the longest arc known to man! From my perspective I just can't hold that loss against Sanji. Does no one else see it this way? I know people want to know why he didn't pull out stronger moves, but come on, anytime there is an ability that is still misunderstood(hax)by the heroes, they tend to fail against it for a while. And if you ask why didn't Sanji bring out his blue fire against the string you might as well ask why Luffy didn't attempt to Gear 4 Noah to bits.
I honestly don't think Oda had a good enough explination for Doffy's parasite ability or invisible web, you wonder why he didn't attempt to control Law or Luffy right from the get go. Still with time I'm sure we will understand its limits.
With no major wins and the annoying gags surrounding Sanji, I can easily see why fans are dissatisfied. Zoro gets lots of shining moments since the TS, and the worst that happened to him was falling asleep, and taking an electric shock from a Mink who dodged his initial attack. While Luffy has had a few fails and good hits given to him, he ultimately gets to redeem those moments from the very attackers that got him. Even Usopp has had more shining moments, especially when he develops Haki right before our very eyes while giving an awesome speech and pullin off the greatest long ranged attack the story has seen so far. Add all that to the fact that when something kind of silly or dumb happens in a non-combative situation it's at the expense of Sanji.
With all of that said I wonder if Oda was calculating all of that for this upcoming Sanji focused year. It reminds me of how I started to feel about Usopp during Skypeia and up until the end of Thriller Bark. I kept asking "why doesn't Oda give him a win, what is he building towards?" I get the great drama with Luffy and know he looked impressive keeping Robin out of the gates of justice but like many others I wanted that 1on1 where Usopp was the only one who could handle the situation. It was like Oda was reading my mind when Peronah was introduced.
Poor Sanji, if it wasn't the fights that disappointed people it was Sanji's actions as a character. Here are a few things that just had people hating on Sanji since the skip. Things I was not only ok with but things hat I loved and approve of.
1-I loved that he bled for Viola and could sense her true feelings because of his strong affection for women. To me that was a clear sign of his developed CoO coupled with his craze for women. Very much how Otohime could sense the feelings of those around her, beyond just where and what they were doing in a combat situation.
2-I loved when he told those PH kids that he hated them. Good reason or not. I couldn't trust Sanji if he loved kids and loved being around them. Most of his life, Sanji was raised by a man who hated kids, it's only natural they would share a few tastes.
I like that he can't kick women. I like that he lusts after women. I just do. Now I actually think there may be a real story reason behind it. Like a fallen angel, cast out of heaven for lusting after the mortal women and then eventually becoming a devil of some sort.
3-I like that he had fun in Nami's body. I would have done the same thing. I'm glad Usopp and who ever else cheered him on.
4-I liked when he put razor blades in Zoro's food. And I enjoyed Robin laughing about it.
I didn't hate the super nose bleed on FI, but I certainly didn't like it. What can you do though? at least we got to learn about his rare blood type. A blood type in real life that people associate with smarter people, royal types and ancient beings that built the pyramids.
I like that he can't kick women. I like that he lusts after women. I just do. Now I actually think there may be a real story reason behind it. Like a fallen angel, cast out of heaven for lusting after the mortal women and then eventually becoming a devil of some sort.
No, we already established that he's a space alien.
First of all let me point out the fact that Sanji being a prince has been forshadowed a lot, so when someone gets it right, it is not that he/she predicted it but rather Oda has thrown hints of it out there.
2nd I have always kept saying that Sanji will get a backstory because of the "I will never hit a woman". In Dressrosa Oda gave mr pink and Baby 5 a serious sad backstory to why they dress and say what they say, there and then it was a guarantee for me that Sanji is definitely getting one as well.
3rd- just like most of you, Sanji being a prince or world noble would be kinda not all that interesting since it has been done with Sabo and Doflamingo(except in Sanji case he would be the first world noble pirate, since Doffy wasn't one anymore).
But you know what hasn't been done yet? Sanji being the son or grandson of a Gorosie, the blonde Gorosie looks the youngest and is the only one who's hair is not white so it could be Sanji is related to him? Now that will be an interesting story to hear.
Last- I hope after the Sanji story that Oda puts Sanji back to his east blue self… Back then Sanji was a gentleman, funny and strong character.. Back then Sanji was going after women as a gentleman example: serving Nami food, having her not pay and calmly giving her flower nothing too extensive but now he goes after women all jumpy and shit, love eyes everywhere, love heart, turning to stone, bleeding, can't even talk properly.
Eastblue Sanji- funny gentleman who is strong and badass
Current Sanji- non-funny pervert, desperate guy who is just strong enough to be used as a hype in a badass way.
But guys you know the funny thing? Even after all this shit Sanji character has been through and being absent for a year he still came in as the 4th most popular character. Now imagine if Oda has been consistent with Sanji character till now, he will probably give Luffy a run for the 1st place.
Sanji's solution was to lose and be made helpless in a moment of crisis, rather than going "Well, I know my own weakness, exactly the same as I've been telling Usopp, better switch this up." and backtracking.
It not like Sanji rolled over & let himself be defeated. He didn't defend himself. Kalifa took advantage of any opening she could get. There was nothing Sanji could have done to knock her out without injuring her.
It was thrown into a random garbage dog zombie, that couldn't use his main attack style at all, even Moria said it was a junk zombie since Sanji was "a guy with no bounty."
You acknowledge that Moria didn't give him a special zombie because he didn't have a bounty so where's the problem exactly? It wasn't done to make him look bad.
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Because Oda played it as pure gag with ugly men that seemed to be trying to get Sanji romantically and to put him in a dreess. It wasn't treated as serious, it was treated as "Sanji has to run for two years nonstop, develop a complex, or else he'll be raped… and continue to have Nam flashbacks after the timeskip."
Oda adds a comedic undertone to anything. That's how One Piece has always worked.
Nothing wrong with crossdressers or transexuals. But its not what SANJI wants to deal with. In that scenario, Oda played it as a pure negative for Sanji, and used uuugly, monstrous looking unshaven men for it.
That was the point. Sanji had to avoid them & steal recipes while they worked hard to catch him. That was the task given to them by Ivankov. If they were hot women it wouldn't have worked.
The cooking has yet to come up.
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He had several, the last of which got the whole crew in trouble, nearly killed him, to the degree of being a major plot point.
He had a few before FI. He only had one on the actual island itself. The crew wasn't in any real trouble. This "major plot point" you're speaking of was literally resolved on the very first page of the next chapter.
Jinbe helped there.
And Law helped Luffy with Doffy so why count his win in your previous post & not Sanji's? Both were tag team fights.
And then Zoro got out with little fanfare or distress.
They nearly died. Pappug had to save them.
He was left unable to fight, and had to run away
He was clearly still fighting vergo with the fractured leg. He didn't run away. Vergo was the first to leave & he did so because of Law…
No one else gets shit on
"Shit on" is an exaggeration on your part. Luffy has looked stupid countless times & Law was a literal punching bag the entirety of Dressrosa.
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Because its one of the only ones he's had, and it was shared. He didn't get that honor all to himself.
Both attacks would have destroyed the pacifista even if they didn't hit it at the same time so who cares?
And Luffy got back up and beat him down. Sanji just lost the skirmish and ran. He was used as a hype tool.
Luffy had the opportunity to get back up. Again, Sanji didn't hit run. Law tagged himself in & told them to head to Zou. They would have stayed & fought had Big Mom's ship not showed up.
They clashed, and then no one was left wrecked.
They both exchanged attacks once. They were also just seen for onee other panel. That's it. Zoro was bleeding.
Under a different circumstance they'd have all arrived on the island and he would have been the one to get in a fight and lose to hype them up.
This is entirely in your own head so there's nothing to talk about here.
Fine. Sanji hasn't been absolutely slaughtered.
He's still been shit on plenty, and hasn't had a good solo win against a strong opponent in nearly ten years, despite being one of THE core fighters.
(As opposed to Robin or Nami or Chopper who aren't defined as fighters.)
Luffy has looked stupid countless times & Law was a literal punching bag the entirety of Dressrosa.
Luffy is always stupid though. That's within his character to be silly. He hasn't been put into situations purely to break his pride or his character. ANd Law has lost a couple fights, but he's won them too against several opponents, (Smoker, Vergo, Trebol, and he got what should have been a deadly hit on Dofla) and in the process he never lost his dignity. He doesn't even have a doofy haircut under his hat or a silly tattoo somewhere amidst all his cool ones.
If insead of training on an island of ferocious beasts, Luffy had been made to absorb Amazon culture by wearing a skirt and bra for two years while milking snakes, or if Zoro had the task of wearing a teddy bear costume around Perona while painting a 1000 mile fence, all while their "mentor" figure threatened them with sexual harrassment, there'd be a comparable comparison.
Sanji is the only one getting Nam flashbacks from his training, and the only one that has suffered long term ill effects from it.
Yes, Sanji got a training regimen, but his was the only one that was played as a buttmonkey. Even Usopp's "I got fat from eating all this stuff!" was temporary and not what he did for the next two years.
Vergo and the fractured leg. The strongest enemy on the island and Sanji gets the first go. He gets is leg fractured but he kept going and it was only made mentioned once since then. If it's anything like real life(and it's not) the bone is actually stronger than it was before. It's only stronger now cause Sanji lived on and got RPG experience. I know Sanji acknowledged himself that that fight could have ended badly but even after trying to block a hit that he couldn't block, Vergo never got a clean hit on Sanji While Sanji at the very least proved to be faster and actually sent him flying and bleeding twice. Sure Vergo just kept Terminatoring his way back but as a Vice Admiral and Doffy's most important crew mate, can't Vergo just be that good? Plus knowing what we know now, it makes perfect sense why Law would be the one to defeat him, still I'm a little unsatisfied with Vergo just assuming his Haki would protect him. It didn't even appear as if Law roughed him up and just left him for the explosion.
Till today I feel like on this page
http://www.mangastream.to/one-piece-chapter-682-page-7.html
Sanji is thinking that he would… have used his hands in fight or some of strongest Okama Kenpo - I do not think he was afraid of loosing.. As his entire body gotten a tremor of disgust or something like that. His face was not face of somebody in pain but rather afraid of doing something as he was instantly sweating as well. He didnt shown anything like that after he faced and almost lost his life to Doflamingo. It was clear that victor would be Doffy and we didnt gotten any panel with Sanji frowning over that and saying anything.
Also I do believe that there will be more of Vergo that we will get to see/ know.
I do not want touch upon one very delicate subject that I still consider as possibility so I will only mention Vergo possibly having very special body. All in all as a kid he was in group of Diamante, Pica, Doflamingo and Trebol - all of them were DF users and Trebol was said to specialize in Devil Fruit black market deals. We have that crazy durability and number of things hinting that Vergo perhaps forgot to mention one crucial detail about himself
Beside that fight of Sanji with Doflamingo - Doffy complimented Sanji on his strength twice during short fight and thats a lot in my book. Extremely hax DF was in play during that fight..
Later on during his fight in palace Doffy said to Luffy he does not seem all that strong(mocking Luffy but at same time that was what readers were thinking at that time). Sanji spectre move imo is around as strong as Luffys Jet/Hawk Gattling and people still bash Sanji for being weak and all in all it is silly- at PH Sanji faced strongest enemy on island as first, then on Dressrosa he also faced strongest enemy on island- Doflamingo, now he barely missed out on facing Jack as he was first on Zou..
An arc on Holy Land with Strawhats fighting CP0 and showing off all that they have would be best thing now in my opinion. Before going at it with Yonko. Also somebody has to take care of CP0 so weakened Revolutionaries as group(after fighting BB pirates) does not get wiped out by CP0. Power has to be balanced out somehow.
I guess it's just amazing to me that anyone reading One Piece for longer than 14 years or so could see Sanji as being anything other than a shadow of his former self.
The fanbase over here, who will give their fav. characters the benefit of the doubt in any scenario, even wholeheartedly agree that Sanji has been held held back. That's not to see he's been weak since the time-skip, just, he has NOT had a chance to shine like he did in the past. The closest he came was going fisticuffs with Doffy but that was clearly conceived to give Sanji fans something to gnaw on until we got to….well....here basically.
I miss cool Sanji.
Well, he was the closest thing Jack had to a second-in-command at the time.
Although he's less officer and more (Elite) Mook commander.
Yeah, would be weird if Sheepy is Jack's second in command. I wouldn't neccessarily expect from someone in that rank to kick Sanji's ass, but maybe at least not get beaten up by Sanji with ease. He was kinda blindsided, though, so maybe he is actually stronger than it seems. It's not without precedent in OP.