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Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs
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All that link says is Spider-Man will not be white. They could go with Miles Morales or they'll prolly have a black Peter Parker….
Which would be Miles who is the only black Spider-Man in existence.
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Which would be Miles who is the only black Spider-Man in existence.
it is a big Multi verse, who's to say in 1 of them Peter Parker isn't black?
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it is a big Multi verse, who's to say in 1 of them Peter Parker isn't black?
Lol I love reminding people of the multiverse concept in various fiction then forget about it like an idiot.
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If they cast black spiderman, they are NOT calling him Peter Parker.Unlike Jonny Storm, or Nick Fury, that character is too well known and people would have problems with it.
Especially when there'd already a black Spiderman, who has a somewhat different origin from the one we've seen twice now and has some different things going on than what we've had for decades. Heck, if they use Miles it doesn't even automatically retcon or dismiss the other movies out of hand, it just says "yeah, something happened with that Parker guy, this guy was inspired by him."
Its all about execution.
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But then it comes with the problem of the general public thinking: "Oh, we're not getting Peter Parker? We're getting some second rate black character? How stupid."
I adore Spider-Man. I love Miles, and I would love a movie with him. And I'd be more than happy with a black Peter Parker (especially if we go with the Donald Glover plan).
However, I feel like, unless Spider-Man is a white brunette Peter Parker, there's going to be a crap load of rage from many directions.
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The obvious compromise is Doctor Octopus in Miles Morales's body.
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I don't like Miles.
I like Parker.
I wanna see a movie with Peter Packer. -
Thats the beuty of it though. Marvel can use black spiderman (and the rogues gallery), Sony can still use Peter, and then they can have a Spiderman vs. Spiderman movie a couple years later, and it starts to matter less who is in the role and they can just start James Bonding it properly and not retell the origin every 7 years.
(Not that it ever mattered for Batman. That recast constantly and no one cared or batted an eye at the time. Continuity is nice but not essential unless the actor brings a lot to the role, like Downey's Tony Stark.)
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R.D.J.'s twitter feed teases big announcement coming in 8 days.
Robert Downey Jr @RobertDowneyJr · 2h 2 hours ago
You've been good so here's a new #IronMan poster from @Avengers. & on the DL, big announcement in 8 days… #getexcitedhttps://twitter.com/robertdowneyjr
I wunder what it could be, a 4th Iron Man perhaps, or maybe the casting for Spider Man?
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R.D.J.'s twitter feed teases big announcement coming in 8 days.
Robert Downey Jr @RobertDowneyJr · 2h 2 hours ago
You've been good so here's a new #IronMan poster from @Avengers. & on the DL, big announcement in 8 days… #getexcitedhttps://twitter.com/robertdowneyjr
I wunder what it could be, a 4th Iron Man perhaps, or maybe the casting for Spider Man?
Question: would RDJ know anything about the Spidey casting? Cuz I remember when Sylvester McCoy said The Master would be returning in Doctor Who and all I could think about was how someone that doesn't work with the creative process of the show would know that…
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Honestly, my thoughts on Spiderman in the MCU is… we should start with Peter, and he should die at some point and be replaced by Miles. Even if they forced that to happen RIGHT AWAY, so we end up with Miles almost from the start, I'm ok with it, but I think that needs to happen.
To me, the wonderful thing about Miles' character is the legacy aspect. I think that's also why Wally West is my favorite Flash. I like the concept of a hero's legend living beyond them, and the responsibility and weight that comes with that on the new heroes shoulders, and I think that aspect is important to why Miles is a good character and why he's so popular.
Wouldn't it be interesting actually if they introduced AND killed Peter in Civil War? Think about it, in the original, Spiderman played a pivotal role that he switched sides several times through the course. Also in Civil War, Captain America ends up realizing the level of destruction they are causing so he willingly gives himself up and ends the war because of this.
Imagine in the MCU, the event that makes him decide to end the battle is the Death of this teenage superhero? You just spend a good chunk of the early movie getting us to care about Pete. I mean, they can ignore the origin entirely here and hand wave it ("Got bit by a radioactive spider, how I have these powers, neat huh?" is all you need, if that) and spend all their moments with the character leading up to this making us care about this guy so that it hurts when he dies.Then the after credits sting is Miles watching a news story about the death of Peter on TV or something.
Cue the Stand Alone Spidey film to be Miles, easy.
@Mr.:
Question: would RDJ know anything about the Spidey casting? Cuz I remember when Sylvester McCoy said The Master would be returning in Doctor Who and all I could think about was how someone that doesn't work with the creative process of the show would know that…
They brought RDJ and Chris Evans out to help introduce Chadwick Boseman was Black Panther. RDJ probably isn't involved in the casting of Spidey, if this even is what he's teasing, but there's a good chance he may be involved in the reveal.
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@Mr.:
Question: would RDJ know anything about the Spidey casting? Cuz I remember when Sylvester McCoy said The Master would be returning in Doctor Who and all I could think about was how someone that doesn't work with the creative process of the show would know that…
Shooting for Civil War isn't far away is it? Perhaps they intend to include Spidey in there as a last minute addition….?
Guess we'll know next week.....let the speculation begin..
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But Boseman as Black Panther was probably decided over a year ago, whereas the Spidey thing is recent…. right?
@Demon:Wally West is my favorite Flash.
Where the like button for this post?
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I would welcome a movie based on Spider-Man Unlimited.
I am the only one who enjoyed that show? -
However, I feel like, unless Spider-Man is a white brunette Peter Parker, there's going to be a crap load of rage from many directions.
All of it amounting to biased but mostly ignorantly (racist) bullshit.
Imagine in the MCU, the event that makes him decide to end the battle is the Death of this teenage superhero? You just spend a good chunk of the early movie getting us to care about Pete. I mean, they can ignore the origin entirely here and hand wave it ("Got bit by a radioactive spider, how I have these powers, neat huh?" is all you need, if that) and spend all their moments with the character leading up to this making us care about this guy so that it hurts when he dies.
Then the after credits sting is Miles watching a news story about the death of Peter on TV or something.
Cue the Stand Alone Spidey film to be Miles, easy.
Given how people are still upset that they followed through with killing Gwen in ASM2 I don't know if many would enjoy that.
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@Mr.:
But Boseman as Black Panther was probably decided over a year ago, whereas the Spidey thing is recent…. right?
The cool thing about Spidey is, they can cast him REALLY late in the game and just have any early shooting including him be scenes of him in the suit. Then you can throw almost anyone in that suit as long as they have the approximate build you're going for. Plus, we know from the Sony Emails that discussions have been going on for a while. We don't know exactly how long this deal has been finalized and It's possible Marvel fast-tracked casting on this.
In reality tho, RDJ just teased SOMETHING getting announced, we're assuming it's Spiderman because that news is still fresh for us and we all want more details, but it could be something else entirely.
@Mr.:
Where the like button for this post?
Wally West fans unite!
Given how people are still upset that they followed through with killing Gwen in ASM2 I don't know if many would enjoy that.
The problem is, if as this one guy talking on this one podcast says is true, then one of the parties here (Marvel or Sony) REALLY wants a Black Spiderman. That means either skipping straight to Miles somehow or making Peter black.
No matter WHAT you do, you are pissing people off here. The people who've been waiting to see Marvel get to take a crack at Pete will be upset if you go straight to Miles and the people who wanted Miles will be upset if you make it a Black Pete, not to mention all the people who have a problem with Black Pete (whether or not racism is involved here)
Having Peter with his traditional look actually exist IN this universe somehow, but then creating a reason for Miles to take over as Spider-man, I think, would upset as few people as possible.
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Having a problem with a black Peter Parker is de facto racist, because skin color is completely irrelevant to Peter Parker's person. In fact his social background would make him more likely to be a person of color anyway. It would be a change from his comic book look? So is Chris Pratt (not a brunet) and Hugh Jackman (not a dwarf) and Ian McKellen (not a muscly dude). Yes, it is jarring at first and you can make an understandable emotional argument that Peter Parker has to be white and an economic argument that Peter Parker has to be white, but not a rational or a logical argument.
And while there are fans of Miles, there aren't THAT many fans of Miles for them to raise a significant enough stink at a black PP. He sells 30k comics a month, lbr. He's barely just getting his first animated appearance out of the way.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Also, and this obviously could not happen in a world where casting is announced over a year in advance, it would be cool if Spidey was masked for the beginning of Civil War and then we would get the unmasking scene on national television and it would reveal a black person saying "My name is Peter Parker and I have been Spider-Man since I was 15 years old."
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Also, and this obviously could not happen in a world where casting is announced over a year in advance, it would be cool if Spidey was masked for the beginning of Civil War and then we would get the unmasking scene on national television and it would reveal a black person saying "My name is Peter Parker and I have been Spider-Man since I was 15 years old."
To throw everyone off, Spidey would be voiced by Jason Marsden until he takes the mask off.
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Also, if things don't work out financially, he can make a deal with the devil in the Dr. Strange movie to reboot his universe and make him white again.
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Also, and this obviously could not happen in a world where casting is announced over a year in advance, it would be cool if Spidey was masked for the beginning of Civil War and then we would get the unmasking scene on national television and it would reveal a black person saying "My name is Peter Parker and I have been Spider-Man since I was 15 years old."
Even if the studio COULD keep it secret till the movie came out, it'd still be blown immediately by all media outlets once the first hollywood showing aired and word got out..
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Also, if things don't work out financially, he can make a deal with the devil in the Dr. Strange movie to reboot his universe and make him white again.
Ok, as someone who LOATHES One More Day, I laughed hard when I saw this. good show.
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Benedict Cumberbatch is Dr. Strange, right? I'm forgetful.
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Having a problem with a black Peter Parker is de facto racist, because skin color is completely irrelevant to Peter Parker's person.
I dunno, i always thought that pushing to change the skin color of a long-established character for no good reason is more racist…don't matter if white -> black or the opposite.
In fact his social background would make him more likely to be a person of color anyway.
And, uh, doesn't that sound kinda racist too?
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There's 2 new posters.
One for Daredevil:
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and one that Mark Ruffalo posted for the Hulk:
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Here's Mark's Facebook post:
https://www.facebook.com/MarkRuffalo/photos/a.1460292930871638.1073741828.1457745994459665/1612563122311284/?type=1&permPage=1Looks like each actor will get to reveal their character's poster.
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My opinion on race changes for characters, or really ANY changes to characters for that matter, is that it depends on the REASON they're doing it.
One problem big budget movies and comic books have that I hate is that the creative people (The writers/artists of Comics, and the Directors/Producers of movies) have their creativity often gimped by the Corporate head of the company coming in and messing with them and giving them mandates. When the change is naturally come to by the creative team deciding this is the direction to go that will best help them tell their story, I'm all for it because that means what we're getting has quality in mind first.
When a creative team wants to do one thing, and the corporate heads demand another, is when bad things happen. I think that's what killed Amazing Spider-man 2 tbh. Marc Webb wanted to tell a story, but then Sony brass wanted to start an MCU style universe so demanded all these Universe-building elements be shoehorned into the movie, bloating it and making the core story get lost in the mess. You can tell this because the core of the story, Peter and Gwen's relationship, is still strong despite the rest of the movie being horrid.
In Daredevil, they made Kingpin Black not because Fox brass demanded they diversify the cast, but because Michael Clarke Duncan was legitimately the best actor for the job. He was the only guy who was that big who also had acting chops to go with it. It was an inspired choice because of it and I'm honestly sad we lost him so he didn't have a crack at being Kingpin again in the upcoming show.
In Marvel Ultimate, they decided to make Nick Fury black because they wanted to base him on Samuel L. Jackson. We got no indication they were forced into it, they thought it would be a good idea, and they got his permission and that led to us getting the actual Sam Jackson cast in the movie (Legend is that his stipulation to allowing use of his likeness was that he get first offer to play the character in a movie if they ever made one)
In the X-Men films, they picked Hugh Jackman because he was the best actor to portray the character despite being both tall and not Canadian. They made this work however, and Jackman does a really good job IMO.
Even in the Fantastic Four reboot, I have ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM with Johnny Storm being black simply because we have confirmation this is a choice the director made based on knowing the actor well and feeling he would be best for the part. We haven't seen the movie yet, and to be honest, a lot of other things about it have me really nervous, but Johnny being black is 100% a non issue to me because I know the reasoning behind it, and it's sound.
This news about Spiderman being black in the MCU tho, at least according to the one source we have on it (That guy on that podcast) said basically that this is something the STUDIO really wants. That they're worried they look racist because of the content of some of the leaked emails, and they think Making Spiderman black would help dispel that image. That's the part I don't like about this. We don't even have a writer OR even a DIRECTOR announced for this thing yet, and already we're being told there might be elements the Studio is mandating about the project.
Studio Interference is what killed The ASM movies Sony. Stop. Marvel is involved now. Let them work their magic and simply do what they want to do. I mean, why the hell would they even bother to bring Marvel in if they were just going to go right back to the same decision making that lead to ASM2 being a trainwreck?!
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My opinion on race changes for characters, or really ANY changes to characters for that matter, is that it depends on the REASON they're doing it.
One problem big budget movies and comic books have that I hate is that the creative people (The writers/artists of Comics, and the Directors/Producers of movies) have their creativity often gimped by the Corporate head of the company coming in and messing with them and giving them mandates. When the change is naturally come to by the creative team deciding this is the direction to go that will best help them tell their story, I'm all for it because that means what we're getting has quality in mind first.
When a creative team wants to do one thing, and the corporate heads demand another, is when bad things happen. I think that's what killed Amazing Spider-man 2 tbh. Marc Webb wanted to tell a story, but then Sony brass wanted to start an MCU style universe so demanded all these Universe-building elements be shoehorned into the movie, bloating it and making the core story get lost in the mess. You can tell this because the core of the story, Peter and Gwen's relationship, is still strong despite the rest of the movie being horrid.
In Daredevil, they made Kingpin Black not because Fox brass demanded they diversify the cast, but because Michael Clarke Duncan was legitimately the best actor for the job. He was the only guy who was that big who also had acting chops to go with it. It was an inspired choice because of it and I'm honestly sad we lost him so he didn't have a crack at being Kingpin again in the upcoming show.
In Marvel Ultimate, they decided to make Nick Fury black because they wanted to base him on Samuel L. Jackson. We got no indication they were forced into it, they thought it would be a good idea, and they got his permission and that led to us getting the actual Sam Jackson cast in the movie (Legend is that his stipulation to allowing use of his likeness was that he get first offer to play the character in a movie if they ever made one)
In the X-Men films, they picked Hugh Jackman because he was the best actor to portray the character despite being both tall and not Canadian. They made this work however, and Jackman does a really good job IMO.
Even in the Fantastic Four reboot, I have ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM with Johnny Storm being black simply because we have confirmation this is a choice the director made based on knowing the actor well and feeling he would be best for the part. We haven't seen the movie yet, and to be honest, a lot of other things about it have me really nervous, but Johnny being black is 100% a non issue to me because I know the reasoning behind it, and it's sound.
This news about Spiderman being black in the MCU tho, at least according to the one source we have on it (That guy on that podcast) said basically that this is something the STUDIO really wants. That they're worried they look racist because of the content of some of the leaked emails, and they think Making Spiderman black would help dispel that image. That's the part I don't like about this. We don't even have a writer OR even a DIRECTOR announced for this thing yet, and already we're being told there might be elements the Studio is mandating about the project.
Studio Interference is what killed The ASM movies Sony. Stop. Marvel is involved now. Let them work their magic and simply do what they want to do. I mean, why the hell would they even bother to bring Marvel in if they were just going to go right back to the same decision making that lead to ASM2 being a trainwreck?!
I don't think they'd want Marvel to use black Spider-Man if Marvel hadn't already created Miles and made him him relevant. And there's some speculation that Marvel may have Miles play a bigger part in the mainstream comics once all this crazy stuff with Spider-Verse & Secret Wars comes to a close so it's either Marvel chasing this or Sony conviently aligning their intrests with Marvel's.
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I'm in favor of Toei Spider-man in the MCU.
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I have no idea who Miles is, but how would they incorporate him into a Spider-Man movie? Maybe a new spider-man movie with him as the protagonist, but Peter is still around as an older Spider-Man. Peter gets injured (think Bane breaking Peter) and Miles takes over while stuff is happening and Peter is too injured to do anything? Mostly, I just don't really care for the idea that the old superhero needs to die to have a new one.
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I don't think they'd want Marvel to use black Spider-Man if Marvel hadn't already created Miles and made him him relevant. And there's some speculation that Marvel may have Miles play a bigger part in the mainstream comics once all this crazy stuff with Spider-Verse & Secret Wars comes to a close so it's either Marvel chasing this or Sony conviently aligning their intrests with Marvel's.
I don't think this is Marvel's call TBH, because I don't think Marvel would go for Black Peter. Marvel would do either White Peter or Miles. They know Miles is popular and a good character and honestly, Miles would be good in that he'd break things up a bit so this feels less like they're trying to do the same exact story we've seen twice already. Even if they made Peter black, Peter would still be Peter and you'd basically be putting new window dressing on another rehash of Peter's story.
I'm sure they'd make Peter white too because If they make Spiderman black, they know they have a contingent of the fanbase who will NOT like it and be greatly upset about it, It may be racist of those fans, but they know it'll happen, so Marvel knows the best way to do that with as little backlash as possible would be just to go straight to Miles in that case.Here's a quote from Marvel's press release about the deal in the first place:
"Sony Pictures and Marvel Studios share a love for the characters in the Spider-Man universe and have a long, successful history of working together. This new level of collaboration is the perfect way to take Peter Parker's story into the future."
Meanwhile, the ONLY source saying that they definitively are mandating Spiderman be black is coming from Jeff Sneider, who does not work at Marvel or Sony, who said this:
"This is not set in stone guys, but I’m telling you right now, Spider-Man’s not going to be white, Spider-Man’s not going to be white. I am 95% sure. Spider-Man’s most likely going to be black. But there’s a chance he could also be Latino. 95% sure, not white. Sony has an opportunity to beat Marvel and DC to the punch with a major black comic book character. Like I mentioned last week, the emails that leaked were perceived as racist in some quarters. I really think that’s going to play into things."
He's saying he's pretty sure Spidey won't be white and he's saying he's pretty sure it's because of the racism scare from those leaked emails.
He's our only source for the whole "They REALLY want Spidey to be black" rumor in the first place, so if you believe that rumor at all, you have to also believe him when he says the leaked email Racism is motivating this. THAT is what scares me. That this isn't a natural story-driven decision that Marvel and Sony are making together, but that it's a mandate from Sony like: "Those leaked emails make us look kinda racist, quick, make Spiderman black so people think we aren't".
I just hope if I'm right and that this is a mandate Sony is trying to force on Marvel, Marvel can salvage it and make a good story out of it. Because, you know if Sony are already making demands like this, it won't stop here.
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@Cyan:
I'm in favor of Toei Spider-man in the MCU.
Leopardon will be there for the spectacular finale of Avengers 4
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They can do a black Spider-Man. They already have his uncle as an established well loved and popular character.
[hide][/hide]
Honestly, who the hell doesn't love Uncle Ben?
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I just hope if I'm right and that this is a mandate Sony is trying to force on Marvel, Marvel can salvage it and make a good story out of it. Because, you know if Sony are already making demands like this, it won't stop here.
You gotta protect your investment…...as awkward as the setup is.
They can do a black Spider-Man. They already have his uncle as an established well loved and popular character.
[hide][/hide]
Honestly, who the hell doesn't love Uncle Ben?
People who like those microwaveable Uncle Ben bowls?
Especially the brown rice ones :sick:
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People who like those microwaveable Uncle Ben bowls?
Especially the brown rice ones :sick:
Are you crazy!? That stuff is delicious! :D
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I don't care if the actors are black, white, yellow or green as long as the story is good
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Also, you have to ask, they want "A black character" or "We want Miles Morales", there's a lot of diference there. |
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I think this is s a pretty well done video on why Tobey was a better spidey than garfield.^^
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The only thing Tobey had on Garfield was they didn't have Tobey speakng like his mouth was closed.
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Tobey was pretty awful, but had the goodwill of being the first spiderman movie, (so nostalgia, no matter how terrible the movie actually is) a good second movie and a terrible third movie.
While Garfield had an origin retread and a lousy second movie. But on the whole he was better in every way, especially his chemistry with the romantic lead… it was the script letting him down.
Had they both done Raimi's Spiderman 2 there wouldn't be any actual contest at all.
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I still haven't seen Amazing Spiderman. shame
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Don't feel ashamed, both are mediocore at best.
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Don't feel ashamed, both are mediocore at best.
Gah, I must be the only person on these forums who enjoyed both films, though the first one was better. The fight scenes between Spidey and the Lizard are actually quite fun and well-choreographed. The Lizard, despite all the complaints about the design, was pretty well done as a villain imho. Also, not watching the Amazing Spider-Man films means missing out on Emma Stone as Gwen, and that`s a shame.
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You are not the only one, I liked both.
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Amazing Spiderman 1 > The Avengers
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I liked both…of the first 2 Spider-Man films.
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I think all of Raimi's movies hold up pretty well. For a while, I thought the way that they handled the Goblin was weird (it make him seem like a Power Rangers villain in terms of appearance), but it seems like the alternative would be CGI that would quickly look out-dated, so what they did worked. Even the much-maligned scene of Peter dancing in the third one gets better once you notice that he's the only person who even remotely thinks he's cool, and everyone around him is either confused or just finds him weird based on their reactions. (plus, all of those changes to his personality seem to be a much better reason for getting rid of it than in the comics, where he wanted it removed because it was using his body to fight crime more than he already did)
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Meh both movies wouldn't hold a candle to the potential greatness of the Aunt May movie!